"if you teleport forward during the animation you will land on the fire"
I get the joke in this section, but you'll trigger relic defense buffs if you're using the weapons...
Yup that's a pain hehe. The other option is to be moving forward, jump, and then cast wheel while you're in the air. It'll deploy beneath you while you inch ever so slightly forward as you fall so that you land forward enough to trigger fire.
But yeah, relic weps are a pain with Wheel. And with dodging / footwork in the heat of battle too.
@fizgigtiznalkie#4436 from my experience, your daily is only ever cast if you lose your ap. All the other animations you see while you still have AP are due to lag.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Great work. Sometimes I notice I cast oppressive force and my daily is not used but it's visible on screen. It's hard to tell on PS4 with all the other DoT numbers and the blinding OP animation where the numbers are if it actually cast. You mention the animation cancelling, I assume dodging out of the red counts, is it not really casting when this happens?
@fizgigtiznalkie#4436 it isn't actually casting. This bug frequently occurs in runs with more than 1 CW where you both attempt to cast OF at the same time. I am not sure why.
"Fight On: 2/4/6/8/10%. Intelligence: 1% for every point over 10 seconds. Wisdom: 1% for every point over 10 seconds. Recovery: 1% for every 200 points invested. Book Imp: 2% at epic. Arcane Presence: 20% at rank 4."
Did you really mean "points" instead of "seconds"?
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I did not take part to the previous version either, I was listed as co-author for no reason. Anyway, here's a guide for you:
The best rule of thumb for punctuating in and around parenthetical remarks is that the sentence should be valid if you remove the parentheses and everything inside them.
Here I have an example (with a parenthetical remark). Here is the same example (with the same remark, even.)
Removing the entire parenthetical remark from the first sentence still leaves me with a valid structure, while removing it from the second leaves me lacking any terminal punctuation; thus the first is correct.
I study everything you and your motley crew of testers, theorists, and pun "artistas" write! ...
Pun = art confirmed!
... wait a second, there's more than one person who makes cheesy puns in the company of Sharp's edgy wit? Who is this mysterious other pungeon master????
"I will try to update these sections as best as I can with the release of mod 12, but be weary investing into anything based on the information contained within these sections."
You've been so TIRELESS in your testing and I FEAR you might burn out.
Guess I should have been more clear. Weary means tired, wary is the word you wanted.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
"I will try to update these sections as best as I can with the release of mod 12, but be weary investing into anything based on the information contained within these sections."
You've been so TIRELESS in your testing and I FEAR you might burn out.
Guess I should have been more clear. Weary means tired, wary is the word you wanted.
Does bilethorn crit on PC? On Xbox the delayed hit only crits maybe 5% of the time for some reason. So an example is bilethorn doing 1128 on first hit (crit), and 691 damage on 2nd (non crit) for a total of 2014 damage. Holy avenger on the other hand always crits in the same test for 2600-2900.
Does bilethorn crit on PC? On Xbox the delayed hit only crits maybe 5% of the time for some reason. So an example is bilethorn doing 1128 on first hit (crit), and 691 damage on 2nd (non crit) for a total of 2014 damage. Holy avenger on the other hand always crits in the same test for 2600-2900.
@masteroga sometimes the second hit crits and sometimes it does not. Figuring out the exact cause has been giving me a headache.
@masteroga sometimes the second hit crits and sometimes it does not. Figuring out the exact cause has been giving me a headache.
Was there any other proc between those 2 that didn't crit? I believe they use a crit flag, and do not calculate actual chance per proc in the same tick. So you calculate only on some things if you crit or not and set the flag, and then apply to other stuff. The result of this is lostmauth effect and such.
So it can be that the main hit set the flag, first WE hit also crit, then something that can't crit reset the flag (instead of just ignoring it), following WE won't crit due to the flag.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
@masteroga sometimes the second hit crits and sometimes it does not. Figuring out the exact cause has been giving me a headache.
Was there any other proc between those 2 that didn't crit? I believe they use a crit flag, and do not calculate actual chance per proc in the same tick. So you calculate only on some things if you crit or not and set the flag, and then apply to other stuff. The result of this is lostmauth effect and such.
So it can be that the main hit set the flag, first WE hit also crit, then something that can't crit reset the flag (instead of just ignoring it), following WE won't crit due to the flag.
When testing this Janne I was using Eye of the Storm for 100% crit chance. Sometimes the 2nd hit would crit when the main ability had a 100% chance to crit and other times it would not.
@masteroga sometimes the second hit crits and sometimes it does not. Figuring out the exact cause has been giving me a headache.
Was there any other proc between those 2 that didn't crit? I believe they use a crit flag, and do not calculate actual chance per proc in the same tick. So you calculate only on some things if you crit or not and set the flag, and then apply to other stuff. The result of this is lostmauth effect and such.
So it can be that the main hit set the flag, first WE hit also crit, then something that can't crit reset the flag (instead of just ignoring it), following WE won't crit due to the flag.
When testing this Janne I was using Eye of the Storm for 100% crit chance. Sometimes the 2nd hit would crit when the main ability had a 100% chance to crit and other times it would not.
Yes, you misunderstood me.
For example you have 100% crit chance, doesn't matter from where, stats or EotS. And also something that will never crit, like some boon, insignia or spellstorm
Case 1: You attack with at-will, it will crit. Sets crit flag to true. Bile begins it's procs, flag passed. Bile #1 looks at flag and crits too, not actual crit chance calculation. Bile #2 looks at flag and crits again
Case 2: You attack with at-will, it will crit. Sets crit flag to true. Bile begins it's procs, flag passed or global. Bile #1 looks at flag and crits too, not actual crit chance calculation. Something was of CD and proced here, for example some boon that can't crit, instead of ignoring any crit flags, it sets the referenced flag or global flag to false. Bile #2 looks at flag, now the flag is false, bile #2 will not crit (the crit chance is not calculated here, so having it at 100% doesn't matter).
The crit chance isn't calculated per hit, (even if 100% or 0% as it should be) but instead some damage instances are tethered to others who set crit to true or false. This is why stacks or DoTs all crit or none, or how lostmauth was, instead of the expected crit chance.
For example if you have 50% crit chance you would have expected lostmauth to crit 50% independently of the crit hit that procced it, meaning 25% of the total time, but it didn't happen
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
@masteroga sometimes the second hit crits and sometimes it does not. Figuring out the exact cause has been giving me a headache.
Was there any other proc between those 2 that didn't crit? I believe they use a crit flag, and do not calculate actual chance per proc in the same tick. So you calculate only on some things if you crit or not and set the flag, and then apply to other stuff. The result of this is lostmauth effect and such.
So it can be that the main hit set the flag, first WE hit also crit, then something that can't crit reset the flag (instead of just ignoring it), following WE won't crit due to the flag.
When testing this Janne I was using Eye of the Storm for 100% crit chance. Sometimes the 2nd hit would crit when the main ability had a 100% chance to crit and other times it would not.
Yes, you misunderstood me.
For example you have 100% crit chance, doesn't matter from where, stats or EotS. And also something that will never crit, like some boon, insignia or spellstorm
Case 1: You attack with at-will, it will crit. Sets crit flag to true. Bile begins it's procs, flag passed. Bile #1 looks at flag and crits too, not actual crit chance calculation. Bile #2 looks at flag and crits again
Case 2: You attack with at-will, it will crit. Sets crit flag to true. Bile begins it's procs, flag passed or global. Bile #1 looks at flag and crits too, not actual crit chance calculation. Something was of CD and proced here, for example some boon that can't crit, instead of ignoring any crit flags, it sets the referenced flag or global flag to false. Bile #2 looks at flag, now the flag is false, bile #2 will not crit (the crit chance is not calculated here, so having it at 100% doesn't matter).
The crit chance isn't calculated per hit, (even if 100% or 0% as it should be) but instead some damage instances are tethered to others who set crit to true or false. This is why stacks or DoTs all crit or none, or how lostmauth was, instead of the expected crit chance.
For example if you have 50% crit chance you would have expected lostmauth to crit 50% independently of the crit hit that procced it, meaning 25% of the total time, but it didn't happen
Ill take another look later, there shouldn't have been any attacks between the application and the trigger, but there is no harm in checking again.
Another question, in your rotation guides in past editions you basically say magic missile for at wills and steal time for rotation. In your aura of courage section you are using chilling cloud for at will and sudden storm, do you switch to that in high mob areas like spellplague for the splash damage and uncapped target?
My single target damage went up switching to magic missile and I can't see changing the artifact weapon bonus at 5k a pop per dungeon, just curious as to what you're doing there.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Another question, in your rotation guides in past editions you basically say magic missile for at wills and steal time for rotation. In your aura of courage section you are using chilling cloud for at will and sudden storm, do you switch to that in high mob areas like spellplague for the splash damage and uncapped target?
My single target damage went up switching to magic missile and I can't see changing the artifact weapon bonus at 5k a pop per dungeon, just curious as to what you're doing there.
@fizgigtiznalkie#4436 I use Chilling Cloud for AoE and for the most part I am too lazy to switch to a single target at will, since I use Storm Pillar as secondary at will. Its just a case of personal lazyness more than anything else though.
Mickypoo: You can literally do 1 attack with bilethorn at 100% crit chance, and the 2nd hit won't crit (with any number of different passives, and 0 procs between). It doesn't seem connected in any way to what type of attack applied it
Sharpedge: What % of hits are critting on PC? On Xbox it's maybe 5%, on boss fights it's just a stream of yellow numbers. If the same over there, what would cause you to recommend bilethorn over holy avenger?
Sharpedge: What % of hits are critting on PC? On Xbox it's maybe 5%, on boss fights it's just a stream of yellow numbers. If the same over there, what would cause you to recommend bilethorn over holy avenger?
I actually asked Sharp this same question.
I believe the reasoning was that there is an internal proc cap, of which Sharp found when Imprisonment was lolbugged. I have no clue what the amount is, but if you attack too quickly, you end up losing some procs. I believe the delay of Bilethorn's second hit is long enough that you don't run into the internal proc cap. The proc cap only seems to be an issue on CW, because I can't think of any other class which can proc things as fast as CW can.
Speaking of loads and loads of procs, I think the CW's procs might be the possible cause of your 2nd Bile hits not critting. If we take Janne's speculation of Crit flags into account, then there's a chance you might have had an Abyss/Storm Spell/Assailant/etc. proc before the Bile second hit, all of which, to my knowledge, can't Crit, and might have set off the non Crit flag.
Bilethorn's secondary hit does crit when procced by the following:
Conduit of Ice
Icy Terrain
Sudden Storm
Ray of Frost
Oppressive Force
Ice Knife
Chill Strike
Icy Rays
Ice Storm
It does not crit when procced by:
Disintegrate
Steal Time
Shield Pulse
Shard of Endless Avalanche
Repel
Chilling Cloud
Magic Missiles
Imprisonment
Storm Pillar
Fanning the Flame
Scorching Burst
Furious Immolation
Maelstrom of Chaos
Arcane Singularity
You would have to ask Cryptic why it does crit on some abilities and not on others. When I redo the comparison for mod 12, I will include the, "some abilities will benefit, others will not," caveat for crits.
Niadan: Fey is bugged with icy terrain. And you want to use icy terrain to proc spellstorm, assailant, weapon enchants, and lots of aura of courage. So it's only an option if you aren't using icy terrain
Rjc: it still doesn't crit when there are 0 other procs. It is definitely not a crit flag
Sharp: was that a fresh respec with no feats? I'm still getting infinity no crit with those abilities, both on dummies and actual enemies....possibly some feats are causing It?
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Sharp: was that a fresh respec with no feats? I'm still getting infinity no crit with those abilities, both on dummies and actual enemies....possibly some feats are causing It?
@masteroga on preview I have a character with no feats allocated (and no items equipped except test weapons and no boons+insignias etc) but all 124 power points, I just logged that character and checked there.
I do not run IT on Boss (single target) fights. I have an aoe loadout (aoe feats, Lightning enchant in Manaseeker set) and a single target loadout (Focused Wizardry, Feytouched enchant in Fey set).
Since you mentioned AOC, Feytouched actually boosts AOC damage.
@thefabricant: Prestidigitation bugs me a little, as it seems a bit underestaminated and only seen as a straight power buff and not as an aggregate of little (and marginal) buffs. If we reduce the power in the example for only a (more reachable) 55k, but we let the player then redistribute it's crit and ArP to power (as it seems to tend over the 100% and 60%) at the end then it's still shows a slightly better ~2,8k power addition.
And it has a lot more, tiny factor built in as a party buff. I'm not incentivising to count out the party DPS of things like DC critting slightly more in general, other players getting 200-400 recovery and the minimal survivability, but they are there.
It can be seen as nitpicking, but I see Prestidigitation as a borderline, but useful skill, where every bit can count and I feel that if we consider all of this in a package it's just has enough party utility to be considered for use (strictly as buffer). Mof renegade drow, so only 2 feat point to be distributed in this or Learned Spellcaster.
What are you thinking about it? Are these factors count or I'm just seeing things bigger than their actual relevance?
I use it on my aoe loadout as I am human and have 2 points to spare after maxing out Learned Spellcaster. If Sharp comes on here and tells me I should quit being stupid and put those points in fight on I will be spending some AD lol. Until then, those two points will sit there doing very little.
Comments
But yeah, relic weps are a pain with Wheel. And with dodging / footwork in the heat of battle too.
In recharge speed section:
"Fight On: 2/4/6/8/10%.
Intelligence: 1% for every point over 10 seconds.
Wisdom: 1% for every point over 10 seconds.
Recovery: 1% for every 200 points invested.
Book Imp: 2% at epic.
Arcane Presence: 20% at rank 4."
Did you really mean "points" instead of "seconds"?
Again TY for the work...probably your best to date.
Michela secret English professor confirmed???????????? Pun = art confirmed!
... wait a second, there's more than one person who makes cheesy puns in the company of Sharp's edgy wit? Who is this mysterious other pungeon master????
I must know this!
*prepares for Sharp to pun-t me*
I'd like to publish your post on our guilde web site (www.uscvb.com/insanes).
Waiting for your agreement.
Best Regards
Ishtart
So it can be that the main hit set the flag, first WE hit also crit, then something that can't crit reset the flag (instead of just ignoring it), following WE won't crit due to the flag.
For example you have 100% crit chance, doesn't matter from where, stats or EotS. And also something that will never crit, like some boon, insignia or spellstorm
Case 1:
You attack with at-will, it will crit. Sets crit flag to true.
Bile begins it's procs, flag passed.
Bile #1 looks at flag and crits too, not actual crit chance calculation.
Bile #2 looks at flag and crits again
Case 2:
You attack with at-will, it will crit. Sets crit flag to true.
Bile begins it's procs, flag passed or global.
Bile #1 looks at flag and crits too, not actual crit chance calculation.
Something was of CD and proced here, for example some boon that can't crit, instead of ignoring any crit flags, it sets the referenced flag or global flag to false.
Bile #2 looks at flag, now the flag is false, bile #2 will not crit (the crit chance is not calculated here, so having it at 100% doesn't matter).
The crit chance isn't calculated per hit, (even if 100% or 0% as it should be) but instead some damage instances are tethered to others who set crit to true or false. This is why stacks or DoTs all crit or none, or how lostmauth was, instead of the expected crit chance.
For example if you have 50% crit chance you would have expected lostmauth to crit 50% independently of the crit hit that procced it, meaning 25% of the total time, but it didn't happen
My single target damage went up switching to magic missile and I can't see changing the artifact weapon bonus at 5k a pop per dungeon, just curious as to what you're doing there.
Sharpedge: What % of hits are critting on PC? On Xbox it's maybe 5%, on boss fights it's just a stream of yellow numbers. If the same over there, what would cause you to recommend bilethorn over holy avenger?
I believe the reasoning was that there is an internal proc cap, of which Sharp found when Imprisonment was lolbugged. I have no clue what the amount is, but if you attack too quickly, you end up losing some procs. I believe the delay of Bilethorn's second hit is long enough that you don't run into the internal proc cap. The proc cap only seems to be an issue on CW, because I can't think of any other class which can proc things as fast as CW can.
Speaking of loads and loads of procs, I think the CW's procs might be the possible cause of your 2nd Bile hits not critting. If we take Janne's speculation of Crit flags into account, then there's a chance you might have had an Abyss/Storm Spell/Assailant/etc. proc before the Bile second hit, all of which, to my knowledge, can't Crit, and might have set off the non Crit flag.
Bilethorn's secondary hit does crit when procced by the following:
- Conduit of Ice
- Icy Terrain
- Sudden Storm
- Ray of Frost
- Oppressive Force
- Ice Knife
- Chill Strike
- Icy Rays
- Ice Storm
It does not crit when procced by:- Disintegrate
- Steal Time
- Shield Pulse
- Shard of Endless Avalanche
- Repel
- Chilling Cloud
- Magic Missiles
- Imprisonment
- Storm Pillar
- Fanning the Flame
- Scorching Burst
- Furious Immolation
- Maelstrom of Chaos
- Arcane Singularity
You would have to ask Cryptic why it does crit on some abilities and not on others. When I redo the comparison for mod 12, I will include the, "some abilities will benefit, others will not," caveat for crits.Rjc: it still doesn't crit when there are 0 other procs. It is definitely not a crit flag
Looks like more work to do on weapon enchant comparisons...
Thanks for this confirmation guys...
I do not run IT on Boss (single target) fights. I have an aoe loadout (aoe feats, Lightning enchant in Manaseeker set) and a single target loadout (Focused Wizardry, Feytouched enchant in Fey set).
Since you mentioned AOC, Feytouched actually boosts AOC damage.
@thefabricant: Prestidigitation bugs me a little, as it seems a bit underestaminated and only seen as a straight power buff and not as an aggregate of little (and marginal) buffs. If we reduce the power in the example for only a (more reachable) 55k, but we let the player then redistribute it's crit and ArP to power (as it seems to tend over the 100% and 60%) at the end then it's still shows a slightly better ~2,8k power addition.
And it has a lot more, tiny factor built in as a party buff. I'm not incentivising to count out the party DPS of things like DC critting slightly more in general, other players getting 200-400 recovery and the minimal survivability, but they are there.
It can be seen as nitpicking, but I see Prestidigitation as a borderline, but useful skill, where every bit can count and I feel that if we consider all of this in a package it's just has enough party utility to be considered for use (strictly as buffer). Mof renegade drow, so only 2 feat point to be distributed in this or Learned Spellcaster.
What are you thinking about it? Are these factors count or I'm just seeing things bigger than their actual relevance?