It seems like one thing that happens a lot is the things some players don't like about the game seemingly have "not fun" forcefully attached to it.
The game isn't fun because: - I don't get what I want when I want - I spent X amount on keys and haven't gotten a Legendary mount - other people get rare drops and I don't - etc.
Not stating that players can't find certain things "not fun" though how convenient is it that a lot of the things players don't like as also considered not fun...
Also what tends to happens is some players claim that more players will spend money if the developers made certain things happen. Arguably there are a lot more F2P players than those that spend money and also a lot of players that won't support the game financially period and giving players this and that won't necessarily guarantee considerably more revenue. The argument that happy players will spend more is shortsighted especially since trying to keep players happy is quite the task within itself, a player can be "happy" today and demanding the moon tomorrow. In other words happy/more willing to spend money (though it's not guaranteed that they will) then open a couple of lock boxes and be right back to unhappy although still having whatever system(s) the developers added which is seemingly part of the reason when some changes are made they are essentially "give and take" (for example the dungeon key change, players could no longer peek into chests (take) but were given an expanded loot table).
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
@blajev the "simple question" you keep asking is a loaded question.
If answered "no" you will more than likely go on about how things should be changed, if answered "yes" you will more than likely just argue against it again and then go on about how things should change anyway so there's really no point in answering the question.
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
@blajev the "simple question" you keep asking is a loaded question.
If answered "no" you will more than likely go on about how things should be changed, if answered "yes" you will more than likely just argue against it again and then go on about how things should change anyway so there's really no point in answering the question.
So, are you satisfied with the current situation ?
You are content with the current way the RNG is implemented and have no problem with the way it works ?
Correct ?
If it is , you do not feel anything should be changed in order to make the players more ready to grind? Or to spend more time in game ? Even if it means in the end more profit for the company ?
Being honest, the pain of the RNG sucks and needs some official answer - i.e. what is the % chance of an x, y or z item. I don't think that is an issue. I think we all agree on that?
On the subject of drops/RNG in general, surely it should be enjoying the content which matters most, and IF you get a nice drop its the icing on the cake. If you hate the content and are just playing it to get the drop, then there is maybe an issue with why you are playing the game in the first place?
Being honest, the pain of the RNG sucks and needs some official answer - i.e. what is the % chance of an x, y or z item. I don't think that is an issue. I think we all agree on that?
On the subject of drops/RNG in general, surely it should be enjoying the content which matters most, and IF you get a nice drop its the icing on the cake. If you hate the content and are just playing it to get the drop, then there is maybe an issue with why you are playing the game in the first place?
Part of the problem is the elitism that exists in endgame content. People are looking for BIS, and only BIS, to run the content. Having +4 rings instead of +5 is enough of an excuse to keep people out of the content. So, in order to run the content we WANT, we first have to run content we do NOT want (because we have already done it 1,000 times) because there are no alternatives.
Being honest, the pain of the RNG sucks and needs some official answer - i.e. what is the % chance of an x, y or z item. I don't think that is an issue. I think we all agree on that?
On the subject of drops/RNG in general, surely it should be enjoying the content which matters most, and IF you get a nice drop its the icing on the cake. If you hate the content and are just playing it to get the drop, then there is maybe an issue with why you are playing the game in the first place?
Part of the problem is the elitism that exists in endgame content. People are looking for BIS, and only BIS, to run the content. Having +4 rings instead of +5 is enough of an excuse to keep people out of the content. So, in order to run the content we WANT, we first have to run content we do NOT want (because we have already done it 1,000 times) because there are no alternatives.
Ahh right I see. I rarely try endgame dungeons so haven't experienced this type of elitism. Thanks for explaining
Part of the problem is the elitism that exists in endgame content. People are looking for BIS, and only BIS, to run the content. Having +4 rings instead of +5 is enough of an excuse to keep people out of the content. So, in order to run the content we WANT, we first have to run content we do NOT want (because we have already done it 1,000 times) because there are no alternatives.
There are always alternatives... Sure, elitists exist, but there are a lot more players out there that are still struggling to get to BiS than there are players that already are, and chances are they are doing the same things you are doing every day to get the same stuff you want There's also a difference between good players that understand what party compositions work in what dungeons and "elitists" that nit-pick gear and builds because they are just jerks... don't make the mistake of thinking the latter runs the end-game environment I'm not defending RNG and, personally, BtA and BtC drops are just infuriating, but I believe a lot of the frustration here (not just from you) stems from running with the wrong people... In a good guild/alliance you should always be able to find people willing to team up for hunts or to run eGWD to get a shirt or to run ndemo 15 times in a row or even run T9G with a non-optimal party (*gasp!*) LFG in PE is just not the way A lot of players start their own guilds with their friends and work really hard, to the point they realize just how much effort and time goes into actually building a successful guild, and a good guild/alliance makes it easy to team up with players that share your goals and are willing to help you achieve them Once you start doing that, the difference between +4s and +5s will matter a whole lot less, hopefully
Again, not necessarily directed at just you @wintersmoke
Yep I've run countless demos, thrones and CNs and gotten six +5s, none of them being what I wanted I do use +5 rings of lifesteal (I've gotten 2 of those) on may main 2 characters, but only because of the 2 offense slots After all the time running that content, to see that beautiful orange ring is awesome... for a second... until you see it's a +5 ring of nobody wants one of those...
...oh, and sure, probably most level 20 guilds have item level requirements, some even charge dues... that's because they put a ton of work into their stronghold and aren't willing to just give the boons away to new, unproven players At least in my Alliance, the level 20s are extremely helpful in both organizing events AND contributing to the up-and-coming swords and gauntlets, so even though they may not be building anything new, they still need their members to help gather resources so they can keep temporary structures up and keep inviting the Mysterious Merchant* back, just for the benefit of smaller guilds in the Alliance It seems a lot of new players hear "join a guild" and they start looking for the best guild in the game... I'd recommend joining a smaller guild that is working hard to help their members grow and learn and then help that guild grow The feeling of accomplishment received from starting construction on a Guild Hall or Boon building upgrade is (probably) much more satisfying than being accepted into a Guild you did nothing to help build... I say probably because I never tried that way
*more RNG lol... every week one or two guilds in our Alliance will invite a MM and it seems all he ever has on offer is the same junky boots and hats... One day I'll get a Guise of the Wolf Clan... one day...
I like how one of the repeated arguments is always if we drop rng then the bis will not be unique anymore. I mean seriously, what do I care if you feel special or not.
I have gotten a bunch of +5 rings over time but I feel rather disgusted than special by the fact that it has nothing to do with hard work but rather with pure luck. I mean geez, we are not talking about winning the lottery here.
Neverwinter is supposed to be a casual game for casual players. And while I don't mind a bit of rng, as it has been said before, it is part of every mmo, when it gets too ridiculous, then it becomes frustrating.
Other mmo's are more successful, not just because they have a better story but also because their systems of obtaining gear are fairer.
The 510 ring that you want to have to feel special is getting replaced in one or two mods anyway. So does it really matter if more people have it? It's bound anyway, but at least more casual players have the opportunity to somehow compete.
You have to keep in mind that not everyone has 12 or more hours of playtime every day. Even if you would have a trade in system for rings to get a better one for X amount of lesser ones, someone who has only one hour a day will probably still have trouble to reach that +5 ring that way, but at least it's somehow achievable.
If hard work doesn't pay off, if a game is like real life and only the lucky few get to the top, when skill doesn't matter because you just dps your way through the dungeon with two DC's (which is due to drops being so bad) then I don't need to play a game. I get all that stuff already in real life.
From time to time RNG is discussed on this end amongst ourselves and sometimes others, some complain about it lightly, others more severely. To us there are more than enough alternatives and positive RNG experiences for RNG not to be a problem whether it's craftable/buyable items (mysterious merchant, Dragonflight for example), +4 rings, around a quarter of the value of coalescent wards being spent on preservation wards and successfully upgrading, etc.
For the most part we play to have fun (in game/in chat), become stronger and help each other. Our community based play helps alleviate the stressors of the RNG system, if we do a few runs and don't get rare drops/+5's we often joke about it because for a lot of us the benefits of quite a few rare drop/+5's would produce only a moderate increase in viability.
The difference between +4 and +5 rings that temporarily grant 4k of as stat is 2 seconds of buff and 2 offensive slots vs 1 off and 1 def.. With "rising" rings the difference is 200 of a stat and 2 offensive slots vs 1 off and 1 def. Depending on the player those differences can mean different things, for a lot of us +4's do just fine because once you get into higher power levels the diminishing returns is so high it defeats the purpose of stacking power further vs other stats (defensive). The def slot on the +4's allows a character to increase defensive stats which are often lower and gain more survivability benefit due to less diminishing return vs "slightly" more power (useful in soloing content).
Again, shaping the game to be more "grind friendly" won't guarantee considerably more revenue and arguably will result in the same if not less. Since that end is being alluded to, how much more revenue does anyone think will be a result? The question is asked because more than likely Cryptic definitely asks themselves that question when it comes to various things. Arguing that players would be more willing to support the game financially is speculative. Players are probably going to need more than "promises" to spend/more for that argument.
The "problem" with encouraging players to spend more time in game argument is the countless "I"/"players" don't have enough time to play. If so many players can only play for short periods of time per session anyway...
From time to time RNG is discussed on this end amongst ourselves and sometimes others, some complain about it lightly, others more severely. To us there are more than enough alternatives and positive RNG experiences for RNG not to be a problem whether it's craftable/buyable items (mysterious merchant, Dragonflight for example), +4 rings, around a quarter of the value of coalescent wards being spent on preservation wards and successfully upgrading, etc.
For the most part we play to have fun (in game/in chat), become stronger and help each other. Our community based play helps alleviate the stressors of the RNG system, if we do a few runs and don't get rare drops/+5's we often joke about it because for a lot of us the benefits of quite a few rare drop/+5's would produce only a moderate increase in viability.
The difference between +4 and +5 rings that temporarily grant 4k of as stat is 2 seconds of buff and 2 offensive slots vs 1 off and 1 def.. With "rising" rings the difference is 200 of a stat and 2 offensive slots vs 1 off and 1 def. Depending on the player those differences can mean different things, for a lot of us +4's do just fine because once you get into higher power levels the diminishing returns is so high it defeats the purpose of stacking power further vs other stats (defensive). The def slot on the +4's allows a character to increase defensive stats which are often lower and gain more survivability benefit due to less diminishing return vs "slightly" more power (useful in soloing content).
Again, shaping the game to be more "grind friendly" won't guarantee considerably more revenue and arguably will result in the same if not less. Since that end is being alluded to, how much more revenue does anyone think will be a result? The question is asked because more than likely Cryptic definitely asks themselves that question when it comes to various things. Arguing that players would be more willing to support the game financially is speculative. Players are probably going to need more than "promises" to spend/more for that argument.
The "problem" with encouraging players to spend more time in game argument is the countless "I"/"players" don't have enough time to play. If so many players can only play for short periods of time per session anyway...
The difference between +4 and +5 rings is sometimes very obvious. Not because of the stats, but by how the players in game percive the gear a user is wearing.
If you are asking for my opinion i will gladly tell you, that for me, it does not matter what kind of a ring you are wearing. My guild leader is still wearing personalized rings and he has no need for more. He is awesome. And i take after his example.
I disagree with you about shaping of the game to be more "grind friendly" would not do anything for the revenue. If you offer things that are player friendly , of course people will jump on it. Would you not ? It is something any player dreams off. Playing a game that is gamer friendly.
"Players are probably going to need more than "promises" to spend/more for that argument." If i understood you correctly you are saying : " action before words " is what players need more then anything, right now. Words can be hollow. Action is what counts. I can actually support that.
The last thing you mentioned was the encouraging of the players. I feel that is a really tricky thing you see.
It is not our job to motivate ourself. It is their job to motivate us. If there is motivation , then the results are always better. I belive there are countless studies made on this particular topic. That is first applied to the real life , but can be applied as well to the game you spend your time in. Wouldn't you say a worker who is motivated , does a better job then a worker who is demotivated ?
For the most part the "elite" players have placed themselves in a separate community, what we do is let them play amongst themselves and not try to break into their community.
Didn't state that grind friendly shaping would not do anything for revenue, it was stated that it "won't guarantee considerably more revenue" which is a big difference than simply stating that it wouldn't at all. The staff more than likely won't put the effort into something for nominal "gains". For the most part would a person voluntarily take on a considerable amount of extra responsibility at work and not want to be compensated for it?
Players jumping on something grind friendly still doesn't mean they will spend money/more which is also part of the argument. Just because the developers "give" players this or that doesn't mean considerable amounts of financial support will be the result even though players often claim that it will happen (why but the cow when you can get the milk for free).
Motivation is either internal or comes from external factors. For players on this end playing together and having fun is our motivation and we don't let "bad" RNG here and there ruin that for us. In real life there are people who are self motivated and don't really need employee contests, awards, incentives, etc. to perform/better. Some people who are externally motivated actually do a worse job because they are so focused on the external motivation factors that their performance suffers.
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
@blajev do you have a tangible basis to discuss RNG or do you want to continue throwing numbers around? Do you have tangible evidence to help support your argument about RNG and +5 rings (which are not required), not just simply "I did this and that x number of times and got nothing"? There are 5 versions of each ring, of course the drop rate would be lower for the higher ones.
In same time i see ppl with r7/8 enchants blue items to have this rings.
You do know that those rings are account bound and doesn't indicate that the character you see them on got the drop.
There are some players from this end that have records of pretty much each and everything they have done which is RNG related:
- How many preservation wards it took to upgrade various items at 3% and 1% chance. - Dungeon, skirmish, heroic encounter, lockbox and level up rewards. - Maps (SoMI, RD, Chult). - etc.
When statements from this end are made about RNG there's often a considerable amount of information to support it. If you have some tangible numbers you would like to compare we can possibly make that happen, if not and you just want people to take your word for it, don't know how far that will go other than the people sore at their results of RNG that will join in.
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Probability calculations (which you are providing) do not dictate drop rates, a 1% drop rate is 1% each time no matter if it's the 1st or 100th run. Probability may go up each run but each time the drop rate is still 1%, probability will never reach 100% with dungeon drops no matter how many runs are performed.
Applying that to rings, 5 versions, each with their own drop rate all being calculated together via RNG alters things even more...
ALL Rights Reserved for any and all suggestions, ideas, etc. from this user.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
While each roll (drop) is independent, I do use probability to get a sense of how the RNG is performing.
You don't think 500 attempts on 1% should be possible? Lets look at some scenarios you may have experienced with the refinement upgrade. That 500 attempts on 1%, would be like burning 50+ wards on a 10% upgrade, or 20+ wards on a 25% upgrade. How many times has something like that happened to you?
I think it happened to me way more than it should. Which is why I don't spend time on stuff that are purely low drop rate RNG in this game.
0
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
And i will ask you for 4th time do you think 500 attempts 20-30min each in video game to get one item is the correct/normal/right way to be Yes or No?
Yes, because some people's luck inherently sucks.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Part of the problem is the elitism that exists in endgame content. People are looking for BIS, and only BIS, to run the content. Having +4 rings instead of +5 is enough of an excuse to keep people out of the content. So, in order to run the content we WANT, we first have to run content we do NOT want (because we have already done it 1,000 times) because there are no alternatives.
There are always alternatives... Sure, elitists exist, but there are a lot more players out there that are still struggling to get to BiS than there are players that already are, and chances are they are doing the same things you are doing every day to get the same stuff you want There's also a difference between good players that understand what party compositions work in what dungeons and "elitists" that nit-pick gear and builds because they are just jerks... don't make the mistake of thinking the latter runs the end-game environment I'm not defending RNG and, personally, BtA and BtC drops are just infuriating, but I believe a lot of the frustration here (not just from you) stems from running with the wrong people... In a good guild/alliance you should always be able to find people willing to team up for hunts or to run eGWD to get a shirt or to run ndemo 15 times in a row or even run T9G with a non-optimal party (*gasp!*) LFG in PE is just not the way A lot of players start their own guilds with their friends and work really hard, to the point they realize just how much effort and time goes into actually building a successful guild, and a good guild/alliance makes it easy to team up with players that share your goals and are willing to help you achieve them Once you start doing that, the difference between +4s and +5s will matter a whole lot less, hopefully
Again, not necessarily directed at just you @wintersmoke
There are different gear sets. There are newer gear sets, which may, or may not better than the +5 rings. However, as of now there are no alternatives to getting +5 rings, outside of RNG. Regardless of whether a group that would require +5 rings is worth running with ( which they are usually not) if you want to run the content in the (personal issue I admit) limited play time you (I) have available, rather than spending that time waiting in a queue that doesn't pop... there needs to be an alternative to running RNG content for a year or more.
From time to time RNG is discussed on this end amongst ourselves and sometimes others, some complain about it lightly, others more severely. To us there are more than enough alternatives and positive RNG experiences for RNG not to be a problem whether it's craftable/buyable items (mysterious merchant, Dragonflight for example), +4 rings, around a quarter of the value of coalescent wards being spent on preservation wards and successfully upgrading, etc.
For the most part we play to have fun (in game/in chat), become stronger and help each other. Our community based play helps alleviate the stressors of the RNG system, if we do a few runs and don't get rare drops/+5's we often joke about it because for a lot of us the benefits of quite a few rare drop/+5's would produce only a moderate increase in viability.
The difference between +4 and +5 rings that temporarily grant 4k of as stat is 2 seconds of buff and 2 offensive slots vs 1 off and 1 def.. With "rising" rings the difference is 200 of a stat and 2 offensive slots vs 1 off and 1 def. Depending on the player those differences can mean different things, for a lot of us +4's do just fine because once you get into higher power levels the diminishing returns is so high it defeats the purpose of stacking power further vs other stats (defensive). The def slot on the +4's allows a character to increase defensive stats which are often lower and gain more survivability benefit due to less diminishing return vs "slightly" more power (useful in soloing content).
Again, shaping the game to be more "grind friendly" won't guarantee considerably more revenue and arguably will result in the same if not less. Since that end is being alluded to, how much more revenue does anyone think will be a result? The question is asked because more than likely Cryptic definitely asks themselves that question when it comes to various things. Arguing that players would be more willing to support the game financially is speculative. Players are probably going to need more than "promises" to spend/more for that argument.
The "problem" with encouraging players to spend more time in game argument is the countless "I"/"players" don't have enough time to play. If so many players can only play for short periods of time per session anyway...
The difference between +4 and +5 rings is sometimes very obvious. Not because of the stats, but by how the players in game percive the gear a user is wearing.
If you are asking for my opinion i will gladly tell you, that for me, it does not matter what kind of a ring you are wearing. My guild leader is still wearing personalized rings and he has no need for more. He is awesome. And i take after his example.
I disagree with you about shaping of the game to be more "grind friendly" would not do anything for the revenue. If you offer things that are player friendly , of course people will jump on it. Would you not ? It is something any player dreams off. Playing a game that is gamer friendly.
"Players are probably going to need more than "promises" to spend/more for that argument." If i understood you correctly you are saying : " action before words " is what players need more then anything, right now. Words can be hollow. Action is what counts. I can actually support that.
The last thing you mentioned was the encouraging of the players. I feel that is a really tricky thing you see.
It is not our job to motivate ourself. It is their job to motivate us. If there is motivation , then the results are always better. I belive there are countless studies made on this particular topic. That is first applied to the real life , but can be applied as well to the game you spend your time in. Wouldn't you say a worker who is motivated , does a better job then a worker who is demotivated ?
"Attention players... the beatings will continue until morale improves! That is all!"
@blajev do you have a tangible basis to discuss RNG or do you want to continue throwing numbers around? Do you have tangible evidence to help support your argument about RNG and +5 rings (which are not required), not just simply "I did this and that x number of times and got nothing"? There are 5 versions of each ring, of course the drop rate would be lower for the higher ones.
In same time i see ppl with r7/8 enchants blue items to have this rings.
You do know that those rings are account bound and doesn't indicate that the character you see them on got the drop.
There are some players from this end that have records of pretty much each and everything they have done which is RNG related:
- How many preservation wards it took to upgrade various items at 3% and 1% chance. - Dungeon, skirmish, heroic encounter, lockbox and level up rewards. - Maps (SoMI, RD, Chult). - etc.
When statements from this end are made about RNG there's often a considerable amount of information to support it. If you have some tangible numbers you would like to compare we can possibly make that happen, if not and you just want people to take your word for it, don't know how far that will go other than the people sore at their results of RNG that will join in.
Any information on that end is pretty much useless. Information that is horded, rather than shared has no value on any end.
Comments
The game isn't fun because:
- I don't get what I want when I want
- I spent X amount on keys and haven't gotten a Legendary mount
- other people get rare drops and I don't
- etc.
Not stating that players can't find certain things "not fun" though how convenient is it that a lot of the things players don't like as also considered not fun...
Also what tends to happens is some players claim that more players will spend money if the developers made certain things happen. Arguably there are a lot more F2P players than those that spend money and also a lot of players that won't support the game financially period and giving players this and that won't necessarily guarantee considerably more revenue. The argument that happy players will spend more is shortsighted especially since trying to keep players happy is quite the task within itself, a player can be "happy" today and demanding the moon tomorrow. In other words happy/more willing to spend money (though it's not guaranteed that they will) then open a couple of lock boxes and be right back to unhappy although still having whatever system(s) the developers added which is seemingly part of the reason when some changes are made they are essentially "give and take" (for example the dungeon key change, players could no longer peek into chests (take) but were given an expanded loot table).
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
If answered "no" you will more than likely go on about how things should be changed, if answered "yes" you will more than likely just argue against it again and then go on about how things should change anyway so there's really no point in answering the question.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
You are content with the current way the RNG is implemented and have no problem with the way it works ?
Correct ?
If it is , you do not feel anything should be changed in order to make the players more ready to grind?
Or to spend more time in game ?
Even if it means in the end more profit for the company ?
On the subject of drops/RNG in general, surely it should be enjoying the content which matters most, and IF you get a nice drop its the icing on the cake. If you hate the content and are just playing it to get the drop, then there is maybe an issue with why you are playing the game in the first place?
There's also a difference between good players that understand what party compositions work in what dungeons and "elitists" that nit-pick gear and builds because they are just jerks... don't make the mistake of thinking the latter runs the end-game environment
I'm not defending RNG and, personally, BtA and BtC drops are just infuriating, but I believe a lot of the frustration here (not just from you) stems from running with the wrong people... In a good guild/alliance you should always be able to find people willing to team up for hunts or to run eGWD to get a shirt or to run ndemo 15 times in a row or even run T9G with a non-optimal party (*gasp!*)
LFG in PE is just not the way
A lot of players start their own guilds with their friends and work really hard, to the point they realize just how much effort and time goes into actually building a successful guild, and a good guild/alliance makes it easy to team up with players that share your goals and are willing to help you achieve them
Once you start doing that, the difference between +4s and +5s will matter a whole lot less, hopefully
Again, not necessarily directed at just you @wintersmoke
I've run countless demos, thrones and CNs and gotten six +5s, none of them being what I wanted
I do use +5 rings of lifesteal (I've gotten 2 of those) on may main 2 characters, but only because of the 2 offense slots
After all the time running that content, to see that beautiful orange ring is awesome... for a second... until you see it's a +5 ring of nobody wants one of those...
At least in my Alliance, the level 20s are extremely helpful in both organizing events AND contributing to the up-and-coming swords and gauntlets, so even though they may not be building anything new, they still need their members to help gather resources so they can keep temporary structures up and keep inviting the Mysterious Merchant* back, just for the benefit of smaller guilds in the Alliance
It seems a lot of new players hear "join a guild" and they start looking for the best guild in the game... I'd recommend joining a smaller guild that is working hard to help their members grow and learn and then help that guild grow
The feeling of accomplishment received from starting construction on a Guild Hall or Boon building upgrade is (probably) much more satisfying than being accepted into a Guild you did nothing to help build... I say probably because I never tried that way
*more RNG lol... every week one or two guilds in our Alliance will invite a MM and it seems all he ever has on offer is the same junky boots and hats... One day I'll get a Guise of the Wolf Clan... one day...
I have gotten a bunch of +5 rings over time but I feel rather disgusted than special by the fact that it has nothing to do with hard work but rather with pure luck. I mean geez, we are not talking about winning the lottery here.
Neverwinter is supposed to be a casual game for casual players. And while I don't mind a bit of rng, as it has been said before, it is part of every mmo, when it gets too ridiculous, then it becomes frustrating.
Other mmo's are more successful, not just because they have a better story but also because their systems of obtaining gear are fairer.
The 510 ring that you want to have to feel special is getting replaced in one or two mods anyway. So does it really matter if more people have it? It's bound anyway, but at least more casual players have the opportunity to somehow compete.
You have to keep in mind that not everyone has 12 or more hours of playtime every day. Even if you would have a trade in system for rings to get a better one for X amount of lesser ones, someone who has only one hour a day will probably still have trouble to reach that +5 ring that way, but at least it's somehow achievable.
If hard work doesn't pay off, if a game is like real life and only the lucky few get to the top, when skill doesn't matter because you just dps your way through the dungeon with two DC's (which is due to drops being so bad) then I don't need to play a game. I get all that stuff already in real life.
For the most part we play to have fun (in game/in chat), become stronger and help each other. Our community based play helps alleviate the stressors of the RNG system, if we do a few runs and don't get rare drops/+5's we often joke about it because for a lot of us the benefits of quite a few rare drop/+5's would produce only a moderate increase in viability.
The difference between +4 and +5 rings that temporarily grant 4k of as stat is 2 seconds of buff and 2 offensive slots vs 1 off and 1 def.. With "rising" rings the difference is 200 of a stat and 2 offensive slots vs 1 off and 1 def. Depending on the player those differences can mean different things, for a lot of us +4's do just fine because once you get into higher power levels the diminishing returns is so high it defeats the purpose of stacking power further vs other stats (defensive). The def slot on the +4's allows a character to increase defensive stats which are often lower and gain more survivability benefit due to less diminishing return vs "slightly" more power (useful in soloing content).
Again, shaping the game to be more "grind friendly" won't guarantee considerably more revenue and arguably will result in the same if not less. Since that end is being alluded to, how much more revenue does anyone think will be a result? The question is asked because more than likely Cryptic definitely asks themselves that question when it comes to various things. Arguing that players would be more willing to support the game financially is speculative. Players are probably going to need more than "promises" to spend/more for that argument.
The "problem" with encouraging players to spend more time in game argument is the countless "I"/"players" don't have enough time to play. If so many players can only play for short periods of time per session anyway...
@araneax and general readers
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
All i did was ask you , what do you think .
The difference between +4 and +5 rings is sometimes very obvious.
Not because of the stats, but by how the players in game percive the gear a user is wearing.
If you are asking for my opinion i will gladly tell you, that for me, it does not matter what kind of a ring you are wearing.
My guild leader is still wearing personalized rings and he has no need for more.
He is awesome. And i take after his example.
I disagree with you about shaping of the game to be more "grind friendly" would not do anything for the revenue.
If you offer things that are player friendly , of course people will jump on it.
Would you not ?
It is something any player dreams off. Playing a game that is gamer friendly.
"Players are probably going to need more than "promises" to spend/more for that argument."
If i understood you correctly you are saying : " action before words " is what players need more then anything, right now.
Words can be hollow. Action is what counts. I can actually support that.
The last thing you mentioned was the encouraging of the players.
I feel that is a really tricky thing you see.
It is not our job to motivate ourself. It is their job to motivate us.
If there is motivation , then the results are always better. I belive there are countless studies made on this particular topic.
That is first applied to the real life , but can be applied as well to the game you spend your time in.
Wouldn't you say a worker who is motivated , does a better job then a worker who is demotivated ?
Just give up.
The mod12 rings are good enough to work with.
For the most part the "elite" players have placed themselves in a separate community, what we do is let them play amongst themselves and not try to break into their community.
Didn't state that grind friendly shaping would not do anything for revenue, it was stated that it "won't guarantee considerably more revenue" which is a big difference than simply stating that it wouldn't at all. The staff more than likely won't put the effort into something for nominal "gains". For the most part would a person voluntarily take on a considerable amount of extra responsibility at work and not want to be compensated for it?
Players jumping on something grind friendly still doesn't mean they will spend money/more which is also part of the argument. Just because the developers "give" players this or that doesn't mean considerable amounts of financial support will be the result even though players often claim that it will happen (why but the cow when you can get the milk for free).
Motivation is either internal or comes from external factors. For players on this end playing together and having fun is our motivation and we don't let "bad" RNG here and there ruin that for us. In real life there are people who are self motivated and don't really need employee contests, awards, incentives, etc. to perform/better. Some people who are externally motivated actually do a worse job because they are so focused on the external motivation factors that their performance suffers.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
There are some players from this end that have records of pretty much each and everything they have done which is RNG related:
- How many preservation wards it took to upgrade various items at 3% and 1% chance.
- Dungeon, skirmish, heroic encounter, lockbox and level up rewards.
- Maps (SoMI, RD, Chult).
- etc.
When statements from this end are made about RNG there's often a considerable amount of information to support it. If you have some tangible numbers you would like to compare we can possibly make that happen, if not and you just want people to take your word for it, don't know how far that will go other than the people sore at their results of RNG that will join in.
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
Probability calculations (which you are providing) do not dictate drop rates, a 1% drop rate is 1% each time no matter if it's the 1st or 100th run. Probability may go up each run but each time the drop rate is still 1%, probability will never reach 100% with dungeon drops no matter how many runs are performed.
Applying that to rings, 5 versions, each with their own drop rate all being calculated together via RNG alters things even more...
“There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
"No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY
Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players
Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
You don't think 500 attempts on 1% should be possible? Lets look at some scenarios you may have experienced with the refinement upgrade. That 500 attempts on 1%, would be like burning 50+ wards on a 10% upgrade, or 20+ wards on a 25% upgrade. How many times has something like that happened to you?
I think it happened to me way more than it should. Which is why I don't spend time on stuff that are purely low drop rate RNG in this game.