When the tyranny of RNG, lottery grand prize win, for Rings will end ?

ecrana

trinity706#8838 said:

RNG is pretty much a staple in MMO's.

So because it's been a staple in MMO's there is no room for evolution or improvement in the way a system works? This line of thinking is counterproductive in all facets of life.

trinity706#8838 said:

A system to "trade in" for top tier items would be unbecoming. Being able to "trade in" to lower tier items is decent (Mod 12 does this with relic equipment) though top tier items "should" remain elusive

I agree with you here and think the addition of relic gear for seals was a nice bonus. +5 rings should be elusive. Personally, I think they could ramp up the drop rates a bit but they shouldn't be too easy to attain. I think running content 1000 times and coming away empty handed is not good for any game. But I don't chase after +5 rings so it doesn't bother me as much as others.

trinity706#8838 said:

Having all +5 rings and top tier drops is not necessary to "get ahead".

It absolutely is not necessary to have +5s to get ahead. But in a game, the end goal is generally to get your toon as good as it can be. That means +5s for some which means that all items should be attainable at some point.

trinity706#8838 said:

Players tend to want guaranteed this and that so that they feel better about the game. Players "being happy" often means them getting their selfish desires.

LOL. It's a game. Everything you do is for yourself. It's ridiculous to call people selfish because they want items to improve their character and, this game in particular, makes it feel like work more than play if you want certain items.

Whether it's RNG or making a trans or R12s, etc... all of these items are to meet what you call "selfish" desires. Imagine if there were no coal wards in the game and someone wasted 1000 pres wards trying to make a trans enchant. Would you call that person selfish for trying to make a trans? If they said it was ridiculous that after 1000 pres they couldn't get the enchant to flip would you say stop being greedy and go buy another 1000?

trinity706

@ecrana that was not the entire statement the rest was "Though it can frustrate some at times it helps promote the longevity of play over time" which puts it into context, you leaving out the entire statement makes it seem as if it is something it isn't. The "improvement" (trade in system for top tier items) arguably will not promote longevity of the game, players will get their rewards much sooner and then... yea.

Each time content is ran and completed players come away with something since there is some type of reward so the "I did X Y number of times and got nothing" statements are quite false.

All items are attainable at some point, those points are unknown for the most part due to RNG. Different players have different goals, some enjoy the game/playing with others no matter if they get multiple rare drops or not.

trinity706#8838 said:

A number of players simply want to water down progression and rare drops because they feel left out. Players tend to want guaranteed this and that so that they feel better about the game. Players "being happy" often means them getting their selfish desires.

"Selfish desires" in that context has nothing to do with items themselves but rather how they are obtained...

In other words it means players wanting a system that will grant them top tier items from less effort, which also means players that are continually carried in content/AFK farmers will have much more access to items that a number of players respectively and actively put in effort to try and achieve. If there were no coalescent wards the scope of the game would be quite different.

Allow statements to remain in their context, otherwise things like this tend to happen.

sleepy725

> @trinity706#8838 said:
> RNG is pretty much a staple in MMO's. Though it can frustrate some at times it helps promote the longevity of play over time.
>
>
>
> A number of players simply want to water down progression and rare drops because they feel left out. Players tend to want guaranteed this and that so that they feel better about the game. Players "being happy" often means them getting their selfish desires.

I call bull crud. I'm guessing you have a legendary mount and rings. RNG is a joke. I played with friends and watched them get legendary mounts and rings. Guess what they opened less boxes and ran the content less than me. So I'm selfish because I get none of the top tier rewards? I quit playing for 9 months. I quit because I don't get <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from dungeons or lock boxes. Since coming back I no longer chase bis. However I am lucky to have friends that will still do content with me. When I have tried pugging or getting in groups outside of my friends I have been kicked for not being bis

grimah

If you don't like it don't go for them. I find the hunts a big waste of time so I don't bother with them. If you think these rings are worth actually farming for the by all means, go for it. They are not necessary nor required for any content.

trinity706

@blajev "less effort" was in response to the "trade up" system where X amount of +1 rings could be trade in for a +2, so forth and so on, a system like that would require less effort to get higher rank items.

If the type of reward being asked for isn't guaranteed, what type is it?

Mod 12 rings are great for players that don't have Underdark +5's. Not having legendary rings/mounts and or rare dungeon drops is not going to prevent any character from being viable even though the argument is made from time to time. Those things can make a character more viable but there is a number of purchasable/craftable items that can and do the job.

Over time effort does pay off and as previously stated, lockbox's, dungeon runs, hunts, etc. all provide rewards whether rare or not though players often overlook the rewards if they are not what they want.

@joe123thewayward comparing Neverwinter to other games is like comparing apples and oranges. Players often seek other games because they no longer want to keep up with the effort for whatever reason(s). Neverwinter provides various events that grant items that would otherwise cost players AD/Zen, double this, double that, etc. Every 6 days players can have a chance at a coalescent ward(s), etc.

The rarity of various items appeals to a number of players and motivates them to continue to play. Not sure if you've played World of Warcraft, often enough the players with full BiS essentially sit around in capital cities showing off their characters. Some players (in various games) when they get a rare drop quit running whatever content it comes from no matter how many runs it took and regardless of all the players that over time helped them complete the runs. There's push and pull on multiple sides.

greywynd

RNG is a staple of D&D; from rolling to-hit to the DM using the Random Encounter tables to generating treasures for dungeons/lairs/adventuring parties.

trinity706

@joe123thewayward In regard to comparing other games to Neverwinter it was in reference to the "sales pitch" of players to get others to play games other than Neverwinter (probably along the lines of the RNG in other games is "better"). In other words the RNG of one game (apples) being compared to that of another (oranges) is comparing "apples and oranges". Other MMO's may have a different RNG system though it is still RNG which they pretty much all share hence the statement "RNG is pretty much a staple in MMO's'".

Not sure what you are referring to but it takes a minimum of 6 days to have a chance to get a coalescent ward via a particular route. A "free" coalescent ward is a free coalescent ward and pretty sure players would prefer getting free ones vs getting them from the Zen market and or trade house.

Almost guaranteed to be BiS in WoW? The same could be stated for Neverwinter (players are almost guaranteed to be BiS as long as they keep playing).

At 30+ hours a week for 2 or more years a player could have bought multiple Legendary mounts from the trade house LOL.
A mount that costs 100kk AD (10 million), with 36k RAD for about 278 (less than a year) would be enough to buy that Legendary mount...

greywynd said:

RNG is a staple of D&D; from rolling to-hit to the DM using the Random Encounter tables to generating treasures for dungeons/lairs/adventuring parties.

^ Spot on! ^

For some reason(s) some players tend to not realize this...

At least for some of those that do, they wonder why RNG is a considerable part of Neverwinter...

wintersmoke

greywynd said:

RNG is a staple of D&D; from rolling to-hit to the DM using the Random Encounter tables to generating treasures for dungeons/lairs/adventuring parties.

Comparing a d20, or even a 2d10, to the RNG in NWO is really comparing apples to oranges.

wintersmoke

trinity706#8838 said:

Not sure what you are referring to but it takes a minimum of 6 days to have a chance to get a coalescent ward via a particular route. A "free" coalescent ward is a free coalescent ward and pretty sure players would prefer getting free ones vs getting them from the Zen market and or trade house.

It takes 6 days... IF you have 4 hours per day to play, allowing you to get 2 celestial coins per day. Many players only have time to collect one per day. Then it takes 11 days to get the chest with the RNG chance at a "free coal ward."

vinceent1

i have like 10+ orange rings but none of them has any use across my characters. i can even trade 10 rings for one of my choice

trinity706

blajev said:

No i dont say that RNG is bad itself i say that chance to get +5 ring and time need it for each attempt is ridiculous, is it normal for you 500 attempts 20-30 min each and no reword ?

@blajev The bold part is false and the below still holds true (for the most part) and applies to lockboxes as well.

trinity706#8838 said:

Each time content is ran and completed players come away with something since there is some type of reward

blajev said:

End what is bad in trade did you grind all your artifacts items RP etc. ?

Does "what is bad in trade" mean what is bad about being able to trade +5 rings? Even if it doesn't others have suggested that +5 rings be tradeable which arguably isn't a good idea.

Yes all items are grinded for, note that grinding is inclusive of multiple things, grinding for AD and buying something is still grinding, also the artifacts being sold more than likely resulted from RNG

There are plenty of characters without +5 rings and legendary mounts that run and complete end game content just fine.

namelesshero347

If the drop rate is a fraction of 1%, then yes it is normal to do 500 runs and not get a ring.

If the refinement upgrade rate is any indication, then 500 runs without a ring would be normal even if the drop rate was a full 1% .

Learn to evaluate risk vs reward before you mindless run the content.

trinity706

@blajev how many times have you completed a dungeon or skirmish and didn't receive not 1 item upon completion?...

Some players get a rare drop in far less attempts so there really is no "normal".

trinity706

@blajev by your logic when players complete dungeons, skirmishes or open lock boxes there's a chance that they receive absolutely nothing, which isn't true.

namelesshero347

blajev said:

ok will make it really easy for you 500 attempts 30min each to get what you looking for in video game is it normal/correct/right way YES or NO?

For the +5 rings, it is probably working exactly as the devs want it. Pretty much every thing else in the game, including the +4 rings, can be attained with a reasonable amount of grind and/or cash.

I want to win the lottery. Is it normal for me to buy 500 tickets and not win?

namelesshero347

Plenty of people enjoy the game without a +5 ring. You just have to decide that the +5 ring is not needed. Don't fall for the devs trick.

niadan

Since power creep is heavy in this game, and the relative increase you get from power diminishes as you gain more (especially with power sharing), just ignore the "need" to have dual offensive slots and work on HP instead. Makes life so much easier.