When the tyranny of RNG, lottery grand prize win, for Rings will end ?

blajev

Yep one more ring post , but i'm sick really sick of endless no reward hundreds and thousands hours grind for rings.

Demon rings 1k+ CN/Demos 3 +5 rings drops 0 usable for me.
Storm King 3k+ FBI/mSVA 9 +5 rings drops 1 and 1/2 usable for me
Chult 100+ maps 5-600 hunts 0 +5 drops

If i calculate the time invested in this, the only usable ring i got must be cost 10 000E/$

In same time i see ppl with r7/8 enchants blue items to have this rings.

So what the HAMSTER is wrong with this system, pls make way the time and efforts invested in this to bring reward on end not endless frustration.

greywynd

Dumb luck. Just like being a real adventurer in a D&D adventure; you never know what you're going to get.

namelesshero347

Some things are meant to be rare. Otherwise we all would be running around with them and no one will be special. The +5 rings are one of them. Devs easily use it to get people to run content ad nauseam because people think that if they just work hard enough at it, they will get it. The reality is luck is a major factor in getting them, and that you can not control.

+5 rings are not necessary. Don't drive yourself crazy over them. I've seen numerous posters go off the deep end and then they get shadow banned... Poor souls.

greywynd

blajev said:

This is what i say ''dumb'' luck or lottery win don't have place in D&D or not in such major matter, its easy and fair if i can buy it or to get token for each hunt i can trade after for ring i want.
But tell me one year efforts with almost 0 results is it normal

One year efforts with almost 0 results is normal.

Dumb luck in D&D depends on the GM (devs) putting such a thing into the adventure to begin with and whether or not (dumb luck) you happen to find it and/or another party member doesn't claim it first.

No, tokens to get the best stuff is not fair. Easy, yes. Too easy.

greywynd

Sorry, I refuse to work for fruits.

The idea of games is to have fun. Fun happens regardless of the outcome. Fun comes from playing the game and interacting with other people.

greywynd

Treat it like a job and it stops being fun altogether.

wintersmoke

greywynd said:

Treat it like a job and it stops being fun altogether.

Treating it like a pyramid scam, where 1 person gets the vacation to Europe, & the other 99,999 people got a Rick Astley poster, is not much fun either.

greywynd

If that is how you feel it is why do you play?

valesia

what if the best stats gear didn't matter .. just didn't matter at all. would more people take time to enjoy a well written game ?

I get pvpers have to be as good as the best pvper( gear, stats, macros, hacks, exploits etc) but pve side what if the you just had fun and didn't care .

wintersmoke

valesia said:

what if the best stats gear didn't matter .. just didn't matter at all. would more people take time to enjoy a well written game ?

I get pvpers have to be as good as the best pvper( gear, stats, macros, hacks, exploits etc) but pve side what if the you just had fun and didn't care .

If that was the case... it would be fine. Mostly. The mere existence of +5 rings would trigger some OCD-heads, but... that's not the way the game is set up currently. It is not a new situation, but the last few mods have made it incredibly difficult for anyone that doesn't play a certain class, well, a certain type of class really, to get into endgame content. If you are not flavors of the month or BIS, you are out of luck. I hate to say it, but the harsh judgments made by players forming parties... it is entirely possible that having +4 rings instead of +5 might be a deciding factor.

ontheleftcoast

A big part of the problem is the people designing the loot system apparently have no clue how random distribution works. The players aren't much better for the most part. Here's an example: say the drop chance of a valuable item is 0.1%, one time in a thousand. Now you run that particular dungeon/skirmish 1000 times, what are the odds that you'll have the item at the end? Think it's close to 100%. Well, you and the designers would be very, very wrong.

The actual answer is that 63.24% of the time -- or about 5 in 8 players that grind for it 1000 times -- will actually have the item. Sure, a few players will have gotten it 2, 3, and even more times, assuming they even bother to run the encounter any more. And while the AVERAGE number of drops across all runs is 0.1% that doesn't matter to the large number of players who haven't yet gotten what they want even after a thousand runs. (BTW, after 2000 runs the chance is still only 86.48% of getting it so roughly 1 in 8 players will still not have their prize after 2000 attempts) But that's the way the math actually works. It's brutal if you don't get that drop and worse when your friends or guild mates are all sporting them and don't even want to bother running the content anymore. Why should they grind some pointless, buggy encounter and go thru the trouble of fishing, farming, etc. to craft keys for loot they don't need anymore? After all, they've got theirs and there are faster and easier ways to make AD.

So it continues to widen the Have/Have Not gap and eventually Cryptic will drop another module with another stupidly rare set of loot and we will all go chasing after it again.. and maybe we'll finally get lucky. But don't bet on it.

ontheleftcoast

blajev said:

One

ontheleftcoast#2086 said:

A big part of the problem is the people designing the loot system apparently have no clue how random distribution works. The players aren't much better for the most part. Here's an example: say the drop chance of a valuable item is 0.1%, one time in a thousand. Now you run that particular dungeon/skirmish 1000 times, what are the odds that you'll have the item at the end? Think it's close to 100%. Well, you and the designers would be very, very wrong.

The actual answer is that 63.24% of the time -- or about 5 in 8 players that grind for it 1000 times -- will actually have the item. Sure, a few players will have gotten it 2, 3, and even more times, assuming they even bother to run the encounter any more. And while the AVERAGE number of drops across all runs is 0.1% that doesn't matter to the large number of players who haven't yet gotten what they want even after a thousand runs. (BTW, after 2000 runs the chance is still only 86.48% of getting it so roughly 1 in 8 players will still not have their prize after 2000 attempts) But that's the way the math actually works. It's brutal if you don't get that drop and worse when your friends or guild mates are all sporting them and don't even want to bother running the content anymore. Why should they grind some pointless, buggy encounter and go thru the trouble of fishing, farming, etc. to craft keys for loot they don't need anymore? After all, they've got theirs and there are faster and easier ways to make AD.

So it continues to widen the Have/Have Not gap and eventually Cryptic will drop another module with another stupidly rare set of loot and we will all go chasing after it again.. and maybe we'll finally get lucky. But don't bet on it.

trust me my math is good, what you think for 20min(0,33h)x1000=20 000min(1 000h) is this normal or the correct way to be, if i can buy this rings i will easy pay 2-3mAD each , thats the reason trade to be there for that, like artis and ather items

I agree with you, it's ridiculous there are so many items we want (and need) behind so many painful random fortresses. Think of the time it takes to run nDemo, CN, or FBI. Then multiply that by 1000 with only a 5 in 8 chance of getting your reward. That's perverse and wrong. There needs to be a way to earn progress, maybe something like collect 10 +3 rings to get the +4 you want and 10 +4 to get the +5. Maybe a token system like the Twisted Ichor or the new seals in ToNG. But SOMETHING besides random that has infinitely long tails of pain and frustration as the only way to get ahead.

callumf

My Chultan +3 rings has a higher item level than my +5 Ring from ToDG. I have gotten better equipment from doing treasure maps in Chult than I have from, maybe 100 ToDGs. Again, it may be luck, but I am loving Chultan Treasure Maps and also the Chultan armour is pretty good for the relatively easy grind to get it.

+5 Rings are a very nice happy reward moment, like a Coal Ward. If you are pretty much BiS all round then just enjoy the experience of playing, otherwise if it becomes a chore it's time to move on

plasticbat

callumf#9018 said:

My Chultan +3 rings has a higher item level than my +5 Ring from ToDG. I have gotten better equipment from doing treasure maps in Chult than I have from, maybe 100 ToDGs. Again, it may be luck, but I am loving Chultan Treasure Maps and also the Chultan armour is pretty good for the relatively easy grind to get it.

+5 Rings are a very nice happy reward moment, like a Coal Ward. If you are pretty much BiS all round then just enjoy the experience of playing, otherwise if it becomes a chore it's time to move on

I don't know if Chultan +5 Hunter ring (from map treasure) is better. I did get one +5 and 4 +4, a bunch of +3 and lower for salvage. I don't open them one by one. I went to an isolated instance and open over 20 boxes in one shot. However, I am still not sure if Hunter ring is better or worse.

For c-ward, I usually went to an isolated instance and open 100 chests. I usually get 4.

tom

yeah NW RNG... my group did arround 450 hunts so far and still no +5 ring...

rollingonit

plasticbat said:

callumf#9018 said:

My Chultan +3 rings has a higher item level than my +5 Ring from ToDG. I have gotten better equipment from doing treasure maps in Chult than I have from, maybe 100 ToDGs. Again, it may be luck, but I am loving Chultan Treasure Maps and also the Chultan armour is pretty good for the relatively easy grind to get it.

+5 Rings are a very nice happy reward moment, like a Coal Ward. If you are pretty much BiS all round then just enjoy the experience of playing, otherwise if it becomes a chore it's time to move on

I don't know if Chultan +5 Hunter ring (from map treasure) is better. I did get one +5 and 4 +4, a bunch of +3 and lower for salvage. I don't open them one by one. I went to an isolated instance and open over 20 boxes in one shot. However, I am still not sure if Hunter ring is better or worse.

For c-ward, I usually went to an isolated instance and open 100 chests. I usually get 4.

Did they increase the drop rate or something?

namelesshero347

Chitty RNG is streaky as usual. I save all my invoke coffers and open them on double-enchant. For like two years, I got nothing. The last double-enchant, I got 5 coal wards from 59 coffers

plasticbat

rollingonit said:

plasticbat said:

callumf#9018 said:

My Chultan +3 rings has a higher item level than my +5 Ring from ToDG. I have gotten better equipment from doing treasure maps in Chult than I have from, maybe 100 ToDGs. Again, it may be luck, but I am loving Chultan Treasure Maps and also the Chultan armour is pretty good for the relatively easy grind to get it.

+5 Rings are a very nice happy reward moment, like a Coal Ward. If you are pretty much BiS all round then just enjoy the experience of playing, otherwise if it becomes a chore it's time to move on

I don't know if Chultan +5 Hunter ring (from map treasure) is better. I did get one +5 and 4 +4, a bunch of +3 and lower for salvage. I don't open them one by one. I went to an isolated instance and open over 20 boxes in one shot. However, I am still not sure if Hunter ring is better or worse.

For c-ward, I usually went to an isolated instance and open 100 chests. I usually get 4.

Did they increase the drop rate or something?

I am not the dev. I don't know their internal logic but I have my own "myth" to follow.

wylonus

i am playing Elder Scrolls, it is less RNG, reason i am frustrated with NW's RNG, it is more considered as Casino Online, there is lot of sites saying some RPG now got too much RNG that they are so sick of it, it is suppose to be fun and game, many other "cellphone" games are doing lot of awful wall of anti-progression that make you pay for level up advances.
these guys in suits are making players addict and to spend cash, they are milking the players if they see something cool, they buy.
i usually rejected as bait.
EQ2 was same way, they started real cheap, any expansion cost 39 dollars in past, and now they selling for 60 something and less contents and lot of unfinished or broken, i remember few years ago when those NW's mounds were selling for 20 dollars and they now sells for 60 or higher.
remember on first lockboxes we had? it was easy to win a prize that you wanted for only 10 or 20 dollars of keys, and devs/guys in suits nerfed the odds and costing more for a rare chance as someone i knew spend 200 dollars and not getting it and loads of junks, he stop playing within weeks and never saw him again.
devs nerfed lockboxes and took out astral diamonds due to exploits and upped the rate on more extra junks by throwing green items that we all get those from drops or loots. Not very nice!

eldritchx

ontheleftcoast#2086 said:

blajev said:

One

ontheleftcoast#2086 said:

A big part of the problem is the people designing the loot system apparently have no clue how random distribution works. The players aren't much better for the most part. Here's an example: say the drop chance of a valuable item is 0.1%, one time in a thousand. Now you run that particular dungeon/skirmish 1000 times, what are the odds that you'll have the item at the end? Think it's close to 100%. Well, you and the designers would be very, very wrong.

The actual answer is that 63.24% of the time -- or about 5 in 8 players that grind for it 1000 times -- will actually have the item. Sure, a few players will have gotten it 2, 3, and even more times, assuming they even bother to run the encounter any more. And while the AVERAGE number of drops across all runs is 0.1% that doesn't matter to the large number of players who haven't yet gotten what they want even after a thousand runs. (BTW, after 2000 runs the chance is still only 86.48% of getting it so roughly 1 in 8 players will still not have their prize after 2000 attempts) But that's the way the math actually works. It's brutal if you don't get that drop and worse when your friends or guild mates are all sporting them and don't even want to bother running the content anymore. Why should they grind some pointless, buggy encounter and go thru the trouble of fishing, farming, etc. to craft keys for loot they don't need anymore? After all, they've got theirs and there are faster and easier ways to make AD.

So it continues to widen the Have/Have Not gap and eventually Cryptic will drop another module with another stupidly rare set of loot and we will all go chasing after it again.. and maybe we'll finally get lucky. But don't bet on it.

trust me my math is good, what you think for 20min(0,33h)x1000=20 000min(1 000h) is this normal or the correct way to be, if i can buy this rings i will easy pay 2-3mAD each , thats the reason trade to be there for that, like artis and ather items

I agree with you, it's ridiculous there are so many items we want (and need) behind so many painful random fortresses. Think of the time it takes to run nDemo, CN, or FBI. Then multiply that by 1000 with only a 5 in 8 chance of getting your reward. That's perverse and wrong. There needs to be a way to earn progress, maybe something like collect 10 +3 rings to get the +4 you want and 10 +4 to get the +5. Maybe a token system like the Twisted Ichor or the new seals in ToNG. But SOMETHING besides random that has infinitely long tails of pain and frustration as the only way to get ahead.

Remember that it's a 5/8 chance to have _at least_ one of your reward. There's a significant chance that you might have two or more as well.

wylonus

i like "Fusion" craft, merge 3-4 plus +1 rings into a new +2, and then few +2's for new +3's, just like we did with rune fusions.
dont think Devs intended to keep players happy, they want them get burnout. that is UNCOOL!

trinity706

RNG is pretty much a staple in MMO's. Though it can frustrate some at times it helps promote the longevity of play over time.

RNG favors players a number of times during sessions though it is often overlooked. Also what tends to happen is when players don't get what they want when they want/within an amount of time they deem satisfactory they often fault the entire system.

A system to "trade in" for top tier items would be unbecoming. Being able to "trade in" to lower tier items is decent (Mod 12 does this with relic equipment) though top tier items "should" remain elusive.

Having all +5 rings and top tier drops is not necessary to "get ahead". Comparing yourself to what someone else has achieved is counter productive if it inclines a player to be negative. Personally went through SKT with no relic equipment

A number of players simply want to water down progression and rare drops because they feel left out. Players tend to want guaranteed this and that so that they feel better about the game. Players "being happy" often means them getting their selfish desires.