chult just dropped on ps4 and I must say it is amazing. Kudos for the devs on that. I must say tho, this is the stuff I want and not a nerf so I can't be able to run things like this. I know you are going through the nerf on bondings but I beg of you to tweak the content with it. I want to play stuff like chult and anything new and not have to replay old stuff in order to do it.
The biggest problem with Bonding is Powershare. Getting more than four times the intended bonus is frankly... a bit over the top.
The two ways to address this are 1) stop the Power Share affecting companions, thereby only working on players, or some other drastic measure aimed at the power share feature, or 2) nerf bonding stones.
They don't want to screw Power Share because with it gone or neutered, Clerics look like even less of an option when they are desperately trying to keep party balance in dungeons somewhere near parity. (If they are prepared to dump Random Queues on the player that tells you how keen they are to keep people running round FBI and MSPC, and that will go the way of the Dodo if clerics are even seen to be getting a major nerf on Power Share.
A radical way to deal with this situation, and take a deep breath cos this involves boosting player powers, as opposed to the usual knee jerk, "we have to make it WEAKER!!!" attitude, is this; BOOST power share to player characters by say... 50-100% and completely remove it from companions. Companions with Bonding can no longer triple boost, players still get a good bonus, and players without Bonding 12 get some love as well...
Maybe i didnt see it, but what happens with the insignia bonus when the companion attacks? Augments dont attack...so all insignia bonuses like protector for comrade worthless?
The two ways to address this are 1) stop the Power Share affecting companions, thereby only working on players, or some other drastic measure aimed at the power share feature,
I dont know how many times this was adressed to the devs...2 years later they still didnt fix it. So they gonna nerf it...."great decission".
1
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,458Arc User
Maybe i didnt see it, but what happens with the insignia bonus when the companion attacks? Augments dont attack...so all insignia bonuses like protector for comrade worthless?
Of course, similar to using a slow/low/no attack companion.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
1
inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
What if you left bonding stones alone, just the way they are right now, but don't allow them to rank up past twelve at least for now till you can get a feel for how they compare to other runestones that can rank up to 14 as planed. We won't have to put more money into broken bonding stones just to make them work again. You may actually come closer to balancing them out this way and not make us suffer a nerf.
What if you left bonding stones alone, just the way they are right now, but don't allow them to rank up past twelve at least for now till you can get a feel for how they compare to other runestones that can rank up to 14 as planed. We won't have to put more money into broken bonding stones just to make them work again. You may actually come closer to balancing them out this way and not make us suffer a nerf.
Or just make a realm-wide proclamation, that (now) a mighty Deity hates Bonding Stones, and have put a curse on them, never allowing them to go beyond rank 12, forever keeping them stuck in their progress!!! (insert evil laughter)
A few people on Discord have stated that they have tested r14s and r12s and had all 3 proc. Someone else stated that they tested and they saw some issues. Can someone do a thorough quick and easy ELI5 run-down of the exact issue (other than the tooltip)?
For me it was like this: 1) upgrade runes to r13 to check what equipment one would need 2) comp starts attacking 3) stats are HAMSTER
I'm getting about 1k arp from a comp that has 2.1k arp. Going from 26k power to 30k power, 7k power comp. So basically we're getting a percentage, but not even straight 1 rune.
To add the bondings give more % than stated on tooltips on any rank or i missing something ( test happened on naked character)
with a rank 13 bonding(60% of companion stat) and companion with 5087 power expected 3052 power. note i didnt have legendary companions . But it gave me 3663 power.
Then i tested and other ranks and they give more than the tooltip says. well my naked character has 3% companion stat bonus from charisma is that the case?
NOTE : ignore penetration i focus on power on my test.
You see this difference, because the displayed Power-value on the companion-sheet is not the value the companion actually has. The "Expert Striker" and "Master Striker" bonuses are not shown there, they function as ,with each other additive, 10% multipliers, means: if you have one of these it's 10% and with both it's 20% more of the affected values. If you include that, then the bondings yield the expected values:
5087 * 0.6 * 1.2 = 3662,64
But it surely is confusing that these factors are not displayed
Wrong they displayed let me show you.
here the con artist as white give 126 stat rating at level 20
here is the con artist as green quality at level 20 gone 138 stat means that got the 10% from expert striker 126+10%=138.
Dear people - please stop bringing up more things for them to nerf.
The bonding nerf is going to happen, but they left us powershare. If you keep bringing up powershare they will continue wiht the bonding nerf and then soon after take away the bonding powershare. You all are setting yourselves up for a double nerf, and frankly I'm tired of hearing about all of it.
Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold" Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
Dear people - please stop bringing up more things for them to nerf.
The bonding nerf is going to happen, but they left us powershare. If you keep bringing up powershare they will continue wiht the bonding nerf and then soon after take away the bonding powershare. You all are setting yourselves up for a double nerf, and frankly I'm tired of hearing about all of it.
If people lose both bondings AND power share, no one will every even attempt to queue for hard content. Probably because there's gonna be no one left.
Make all rune stones in the game two levels higher when you initiate mod 12b, then let things go from there. I get that bonding stones are overpowered, you were told several times in the forums that bondings didn't make sense because it made your pet be the most powerful thing about you. You chose not to fix the problem early, you overlooked it for years letting bonding stones become the meta, and you forced us to chase after them and the chase wasn't quick, easy or cheap.
Sadly I suspect it was done originally for profit, making us max out six more enchantments and three rune stones, and then improve our companions to legendary. Fix things now, it makes sense to fix it but just don't make us pay twice to be as powerful as we are now, especially when its a problem you created.
You should take the time now to do away with the wards and marks in the game and make chance of success 100% all the time, this would make your refining changes a positive thing not just another money grab. Find fun things or QOL things to get our money, we don't mind spending if it makes the game fun and easy, why not have an unbind scroll in the Zen market, or bring back the Mount training tombs, there are lots of other things you could make money on you need to let wards and marks go.
You need work at making this game fun again, not a pain in the behind to play, moral in the game which frankly is at an all time low. Players are angry to say the least. People are leaving.
I'm pretty sure that the bean counters have run the numbers and have let the mucky mucks know how much revenue came in from the last Zen sale and if I'm any kind of indicator of how things went I would say you had a huge shortfall. I was going to spend money on the game but decided not to. I don't want to spend money on a game that seems to be floundering. Several of my friends have moved on from the game in the last month and more are talking about quitting.
I've been playing the game over four years now, I have lived through mod 6 where the game was totally unplayable, the binding of the lockbox keys, removal of AD from leadership, had you nerf my high profit set, and my lostmouth set, lived through the removal of Coalescent wards from trade bare store the loss of Swordcoast and lots of others but have never seen people I play with leave like right now.
It makes perfect sense on why the update is being implemented the way it is...
1) Other Runestones and Augment companions will be an alternative for players who do not want to pursue bonding or would rather have higher stats all the time. This results in more $$$ as some players will prefer this over the current bonding Meta.
2) Bonding moving up to R14 is a good way to add more revenue from players as we sink more into our characters to ensure we are able to be better
3) Adding more stats to enchantments and allowing us to increase enchantment for more stats - this is another way to ensure we invest more into the game to get our characters stronger.
Now a good portion of PC, PS4 and XBox 1 players are near BiS or at BiS and many are simply doing minor changes here and there to try to maximize their character. This update is aimed at those players to drop more money or time into the game to improve their character further. With the reduction in stats from bonding it will highly encourage us to go after R14 enchantments. Sure enough that will sell Coal Wards from the Zen Market and at $10 a pop and with us having so many enchantments between our companion and our character that is roughly around $200 give or take that the company hopes to make off each player that has a character that is BiS at end game.
If you think this update is for anything else you must be fooling yourself. In fact, it is all about turning a profit which can be done by providing better content or encouraging more players to get VIP.
Another way to turn a profit would be to put Legendary mounts in the Zen Market or adding more items that we want in the LBs. Both would be good ways to turn a profit.
If the devs did just a minor tweak to bonding such as modifying how power sharing works I would of been on board with this update but given how it scream, we want you to spend more of your money, is why I only log on now to open my daily LB.
This is one more way to get money, it's the only thing that makes this game stay online. If you like or i like? not in fact but it's the change the dev's find to make more investment. In the end, maybe it isn't so bad, we hope...
No sir, its not to improve character or make them stronger- it wouldnt bother any one around - its to get beck to the level players are currently on - and thats the problem. There is a huge difference beteen opening your wallet to aquire new things witch really makes your toon better, then to do that just to bring your toon back to playable level.
If a player is expecting to get lots of power, investing in power and ignore crit is not an option to any build.
Also devs don't say a word more about runestones, i assume this is how it's going live and people will still think it's ok to carry non bonding runestones in any companion and still keep ruining runs and no word about empowered runestones either that stand at 32k HP, i don't see any profane at 8k defence, the excuse "to give companions more surviviallity " is just lame, if companions need survival give the a "in dungeon buff", when i look at empowered runestones i see something that will be nerfed in the future and people will cry about just like bondings but in a smaller scale.
SW are forgotten for a long time. I worked my way to get the R12 bonding simply to be of some value in groups/dungeons, etc. Nerfing this much ??? It doesn't make my SW of any added value anymore and we'll be rejected/kicked from dugeons as before. It took too long to show some love for our SW base. I'll enjoyed this game for many years... I will give it another try when 12b mod is released. But I'll think I'll give up very quickly. Not going to work months and spend millions of AD to get my SW of an acceptable level again. Anyhow, that said, I enjoyed the game since beta release. Seen many changes... Thanks cryptic for the years of fun.
2
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Even now, pre-nerf, I've been in a couple of average grps on tong and fbi, and failed. I'm guessing that'll become a more regular thing...
...how is the average punter going to make any dosh..? Run orcus ad infinitum..?
Exactly this. I'm BiS in everything but enchants I put on myself, what's just additional stats. I can carry a group through FBI and MSP, if the group is right, even TNG.
I can't do jack in MSP in 12b. I for some reason go down from 28k crit (from bondings alone) to 22-23k crit. My comp has < 3.5k crit. So yeah. If your goal was to make the game impossible for the new players, good job. You've succeeded. It's hard on near top-tiers, let alone fresh ones.
I feel offended for the lack of responses here. Seriously. This is a joke. If you have some dignity, just close this thread and never ask anyone for feedback.
I feel offended for the lack of responses here. Seriously. This is a joke. If you have some dignity, just close this thread and never ask anyone for feedback.
This is absurd. That you would actually take the time to write this tripe is silly and puerile.
The developers have given us plenty of feedback regarding all the changes that are coming. It is obvious there are plenty of people unhappy about the changes and they came here to vent.
The developers have explained what is happening with bonding stones. They accepted feedback. They responded immediately with a change. Now bonding stones seems set. There is nothing more to say about it. They moved on to other matters, as they should.
It is obvious the developers have a plan to follow to make changes to the game. They do not owe it to use to provide the complete details of all the changes they are making. They have given us a blueprint of the impending changes. You want one to come onto the forums and hold your hand now and sing kum ba yah?
Haha. You're kidding right? Do you know the meaning of feedback? Do you see 43 pages of people wanting to stop this madness? And how many responses have been provided by the devs? This is insulting and disrespectful. People here actually cared to do the math for them and proved them wrong and yet there is no response here. So tell me how is this a feedback thread if theres no dialogue here?
Comments
Getting more than four times the intended bonus is frankly... a bit over the top.
The two ways to address this are 1) stop the Power Share affecting companions, thereby only working on players, or some other drastic measure aimed at the power share feature, or 2) nerf bonding stones.
They don't want to screw Power Share because with it gone or neutered, Clerics look like even less of an option when they are desperately trying to keep party balance in dungeons somewhere near parity. (If they are prepared to dump Random Queues on the player that tells you how keen they are to keep people running round FBI and MSPC, and that will go the way of the Dodo if clerics are even seen to be getting a major nerf on Power Share.
A radical way to deal with this situation, and take a deep breath cos this involves boosting player powers, as opposed to the usual knee jerk, "we have to make it WEAKER!!!" attitude, is this;
BOOST power share to player characters by say... 50-100% and completely remove it from companions.
Companions with Bonding can no longer triple boost, players still get a good bonus, and players without Bonding 12 get some love as well...
The bonding nerf is going to happen, but they left us powershare. If you keep bringing up powershare they will continue wiht the bonding nerf and then soon after take away the bonding powershare. You all are setting yourselves up for a double nerf, and frankly I'm tired of hearing about all of it.
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
1) Other Runestones and Augment companions will be an alternative for players who do not want to pursue bonding or would rather have higher stats all the time. This results in more $$$ as some players will prefer this over the current bonding Meta.
2) Bonding moving up to R14 is a good way to add more revenue from players as we sink more into our characters to ensure we are able to be better
3) Adding more stats to enchantments and allowing us to increase enchantment for more stats - this is another way to ensure we invest more into the game to get our characters stronger.
Now a good portion of PC, PS4 and XBox 1 players are near BiS or at BiS and many are simply doing minor changes here and there to try to maximize their character. This update is aimed at those players to drop more money or time into the game to improve their character further. With the reduction in stats from bonding it will highly encourage us to go after R14 enchantments. Sure enough that will sell Coal Wards from the Zen Market and at $10 a pop and with us having so many enchantments between our companion and our character that is roughly around $200 give or take that the company hopes to make off each player that has a character that is BiS at end game.
If you think this update is for anything else you must be fooling yourself. In fact, it is all about turning a profit which can be done by providing better content or encouraging more players to get VIP.
Another way to turn a profit would be to put Legendary mounts in the Zen Market or adding more items that we want in the LBs. Both would be good ways to turn a profit.
If the devs did just a minor tweak to bonding such as modifying how power sharing works I would of been on board with this update but given how it scream, we want you to spend more of your money, is why I only log on now to open my daily LB.
No sir, its not to improve character or make them stronger- it wouldnt bother any one around - its to get beck to the level players are currently on - and thats the problem. There is a huge difference beteen opening your wallet to aquire new things witch really makes your toon better, then to do that just to bring your toon back to playable level.
Turn all power buffs into something similar to dark revelry.
Problem is not just power creeping but also the unavailability of power builds, think about it this way:
Power 100; Crit 100
100*100 = 10 000
110*90 = 9 900
If a player is expecting to get lots of power, investing in power and ignore crit is not an option to any build.
Also devs don't say a word more about runestones, i assume this is how it's going live and people will still think it's ok to carry non bonding runestones in any companion and still keep ruining runs and no word about empowered runestones either that stand at 32k HP, i don't see any profane at 8k defence, the excuse "to give companions more surviviallity " is just lame, if companions need survival give the a "in dungeon buff", when i look at empowered runestones i see something that will be nerfed in the future and people will cry about just like bondings but in a smaller scale.
Anyhow, that said, I enjoyed the game since beta release. Seen many changes... Thanks cryptic for the years of fun.
Per the above:
power 80
Crit 120
80 * 120 = 9600.....
Even now, pre-nerf, I've been in a couple of average grps on tong and fbi, and failed. I'm guessing that'll become a more regular thing...
...how is the average punter going to make any dosh..? Run orcus ad infinitum..?
I can't do jack in MSP in 12b. I for some reason go down from 28k crit (from bondings alone) to 22-23k crit. My comp has < 3.5k crit. So yeah.
If your goal was to make the game impossible for the new players, good job. You've succeeded. It's hard on near top-tiers, let alone fresh ones.
The developers have given us plenty of feedback regarding all the changes that are coming. It is obvious there are plenty of people unhappy about the changes and they came here to vent.
The developers have explained what is happening with bonding stones. They accepted feedback. They responded immediately with a change. Now bonding stones seems set. There is nothing more to say about it. They moved on to other matters, as they should.
It is obvious the developers have a plan to follow to make changes to the game. They do not owe it to use to provide the complete details of all the changes they are making. They have given us a blueprint of the impending changes. You want one to come onto the forums and hold your hand now and sing kum ba yah?