This is one more way to get money, it's the only thing that makes this game stay online. If you like or i like? not in fact but it's the change the dev's find to make more investment. In the end, maybe it isn't so bad, we hope...
actually it is bad because no one is gonna stick around and give them money for it. just because you do something to make more money doesn't mean your customer base is going to agree with you and give you it. we're trying to help a bad decision from being made.
For those who say people should stop complaining or whining think about this. We live in a society where we supposedly have freedom of speech and that includes how we express ourselves. If you don't like it then that's ok, but don't sit there and think that because the changes out more likely to happen that we'll just shut up. Yeah we can adjust which is true, but the point of this feedback is to give and express our opinions and hope that just maybe we might be heard enough that there'd be further adjustment. The devs might have their hands tied with this one from decisions up higher but they've listened to us before, maybe they would listen to us some more. Maybe at the VERY VERY least there would be some compensation they could give at the start of the mod like a few coal wards, that would be very nice and we know the devs could do it. That would at least take some of the sting out of it. @terramak@noworries#8859@nitocris83 and other devs, is this possible?
When you put enough money or time into this game to start a small/medium sized business, your entitled to your rights express your opinions. That shouldn't be looked over. Heck your entitled anyway
I play on PS4 and I would conservatively guess that I have spent (invested) probably close to $3k into this game. Disgusting really, but since these changes were proposed I have not spent a dime on the game and I will no longer put money into it. Not only that but I have also cut back my playtime drastically as I don't get the same joy and satisfaction out of the game. Just have a sour taste in my mouth.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
> @micky1p00 said: > Eliminate "DC/OP power -> Bonded companions -> Companion owner" > Turn all power buffs into something similar to dark revelry. > > Problem is not just power creeping but also the unavailability of power builds, think about it this way: > > Power 100; Crit 100 > 100*100 = 10 000 > 110*90 = 9 900 > > If a player is expecting to get lots of power, investing in power and ignore crit is not an option to any build. > > > This example..... (I assume it's just a bad example choice) > > Per the above: > power 80 > Crit 120 > > 80 * 120 = 9600.....
> @eliybeats said: > For those who say people should stop complaining or whining think about this. We live in a society where we supposedly have freedom of speech and that includes how we express ourselves. If you don't like it then that's ok, but don't sit there and think that because the changes out more likely to happen that we'll just shut up. Yeah we can adjust which is true, but the point of this feedback is to give and express our opinions and hope that just maybe we might be heard enough that there'd be further adjustment. The devs might have their hands tied with this one from decisions up higher but they've listened to us before, maybe they would listen to us some more. Maybe at the VERY VERY least there would be some compensation they could give at the start of the mod like a few coal wards, that would be very nice and we know the devs could do it. That would at least take some of the sting out of it. @terramak@noworries#8859@nitocris83 and other devs, is this possible? But here it's dictatorship.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
I feel offended for the lack of responses here. Seriously. This is a joke. If you have some dignity, just close this thread and never ask anyone for feedback.
This is absurd. That you would actually take the time to write this tripe is silly and puerile.
The developers have given us plenty of feedback regarding all the changes that are coming. It is obvious there are plenty of people unhappy about the changes and they came here to vent.
The developers have explained what is happening with bonding stones. They accepted feedback. They responded immediately with a change. Now bonding stones seems set. There is nothing more to say about it. They moved on to other matters, as they should.
It is obvious the developers have a plan to follow to make changes to the game. They do not owe it to use to provide the complete details of all the changes they are making. They have given us a blueprint of the impending changes. You want one to come onto the forums and hold your hand now and sing kum ba yah?
The duration stays the same regardless of the number of bondings, but the percentage of stats transferred is the combination of all the bondings equipped.
I appreciate your constructive and well written post and can assure you that I am reading the feedback in all of the threads on refinement including this one.
We are very aware of the impact this type of change will have which is why we wanted to be direct with all of the information and make it possible for this discussion to occur.
We fully understand how big of a topic this is which is why we wanted to get the details out early to get feedback on all of the changes. And feedback certainly has been given! Although these types of topics can get heated due to the passion players have for this game, it is a good thing to see such involvement and discussion from our player base.
There are valid points being brought up through out this discussion. Reading over all of this feedback, from multiple sources, has allowed us to take a look at different perspectives on the bonding issues. Bonding runestones do need an adjustment and we'd like to allow for other companion and runestone choices to not be so underwhelming compared to a bonding companion.
Many of the points brought forward by you is that a 50% up time changes too many dynamics which will drive many players to feeling that an augment pet is the only correct route to play. That is not our intention and not where we want the game to go.
We are going to switch the up time to being able to be 100% (cooldown and up time will match). This will be with the lowered percentages that we presented and seems like the best way to address many of the concerns while still bringing bonding power more in line with where it should be.
Also, we are going to look into switching the offensive effect of Eldritch Runestones to match the defensive effect, meaning that either slot will grant the stat gain (it does mean the AP functionality of the Eldritch Runestone offensive slot is going away). This allows players who would like to use an augment pet with Eldritch Runestones to have a choice in which augment pet to use.
The concerns on dungeon runs/difficulty in the game with any changes to bonding runestones is not unnoticed and something we have been paying attention to internally throughout all of this. We have been doing internal testing on this and look forward to feedback during preview on this very topic.
@onodrain We are on the page ..eh...44 right now ? I've seen all the changes. If there is a reason other than " it has to happen cos bonding runestone is overpowered and have to be scaled down so other runestones are not useless " we would like to hear it and understand. We are sick of nerfs. All of us. Sick to the point of puking. We had enough freaking scaling and freaking adjustments that are HAMSTER. Total and absolute HAMSTER i tell you. If the word " nerf " is all they understand , when we say " fix " something, then obviously our communication with the devs is having a breakdown somewhere. DC is overpowered = nerf AA OP is overpowered = nerf bubble T Bars have coal wards : remove the coal wards People are running dungeons too much and getting a free chest , oh my , blasphemy = key change Bondings / powershare / wai = nerf bondings 2 DC meta ? Well now... lets see what will happen there, ha ... i wonder what to expect... hm... It makes us tired. No one likes changes, you adjust to them in the end , yes. But bomb someone with too many at the same time and people give up. I do not want to lose my guildies over this. Yet again. It was hard enough to refill the guild after mod 6, it was a horrible experience and i do not wish to repeat it again.
"We are very aware of the impact this type of change will have which is why we wanted to be direct with all of the information and make it possible for this discussion to occur."
This isn't a discussion, as there is no 2 way communication. This is dictation on 1 side and pleading on the other. ...and it wasn't these devs that 'made it possible' to have it. These forums and those on Reddit have existed long before this change or even these devs worked for cryptic. Nothing special or extraordinary was done to enable this particular thread. The initial posts regarding the changes initiated the discussion, but it would have been possible regardless, either now or after the changes went through.
There have been no real concessions. The gist of the changes remains the same. There was a shift which largely seems like a negotiating tactic to threaten a ridiculous solution with additional testing and implementation costs. Pair that with an easy to implement value change with practically 0 implementation cost or testing needed. Then come out as the hero for taking back the change that was costly and beyond reasonable anyway.
These changes are unneeded, misguided, self-harming, and unpopular with the people that actually pay the bills. The only tool we have available to us once talking has proven fruitless is to withhold payment. ..and it appears that is going to be a popular tool in this case, much more than the previous nerfs.
"Now there may be room for compromise depending on the response but nerfs will happen (in general, not this change specifically) even if that means players will leave. It's a fact of life in when you play an MMO. It's a decision developers of MMO's make knowing it has a very negative short term impact with the expectation of making the game better in the long term."
The other thing that most MMOs do, is go out of business. There are more MMOs in the grave than those that exist, and yes most all of them have had major nerf cycles.
It isn't necessary. It certainly isn't necessary in this manner. It also isn't necessary to to it in a prolonged repeated and secretive manner. "Surprise .. the thing we've been busily enticing you to buy over the past year is the thing we're going to do the most damage to."
No.
Want a happy playerbase, try transparency. Try doing something different then those derelicts that have gone before have done.
Heres a possibility. Need more money, come up with a public system for requesting it. 'We need X to keep the servers running. We have Y so far this month.' Want new content we need X+Z subscriptions this quarter.
Need to balance an item that you just implemented that seems a bit strong in the game. Dont spend well over a year promoting it, selling it, having sales on them, and sell them as a free item with all companions, while dropping them like candy at christmas time. ..or in this case bonding runestones at Simril. ..only to nerf it in a plan 'that we've had for a long time'.
In this case its not just the nerf. Its not just the collection of nerfs that came before it. Its not just the marketing, or the in game power. Its not just the feeling of having something you payed for weakened compared to the game, or the futile feeling of being sent backwards instead of moving forwards to new content. If theres new gear to work toward, it gives you something to soothe the loss of your trusty item, instead of having it pulled from you and replaced with a shoddy version as you crawl through the same areas that you ruled for monthes before hand.
It is ALL of this. ..and its they are being given every bit of advice that we can find to avoid this self-inflicted wound.
Bonding nerf in my opinion has double purpose. First - money grabbing. Its obvious. But second is more elusive.I belive Crytpic at this point is simply unable to create a chelenging end game content. It would take lot of time,money, skills and effort to rework this game to a balanced level. It would force devs to reach a game roots, and lots of rework. So instead of putting extra resources on that they simply decided to nerf all players arcoss a board to make current content harder or gated behind sea of grind and/or mounts of real cash. If its gona be hard enaugh you wont need new one even harder content right? Sure, big spenders gona close a gap in no time, but for majority of player base its just adding months of sailing trough a see of grind.
Of course this is all supposition, but I wanted to add a bit since its definitely possible that the cost of 'end game content' plays a factor in this.
Dont do it. Not as much anyway. NW devs have had this schedule of new more powerful end game content on a 4 month (ish) basis for years now. Its neat while you can keep it up, but perhaps the system is just tired an cant keep up that pace. Perhaps the strain on the technology makes going bigger/better a more expensive choice as time goes on. So admit it and slow down that schedule while working on QOL items for people. Just state it publicly, were going to a 6 month schedule.
Even just ASK for money like Path of Exile does for newly developed areas. (doesnt even have to be the whole cost, but could be a request for extra purchases to fund x, y, or z. Add a sponsorship or patronage funding level to this.
But the thing is there are simpler things that can be done that are cheaper, and would make people stay AND spend money.
Heck pay some college kids to render up some more fashion. Get mods that have been with the company for a while to help to quality control and release them o the game. Get more transmutes, more specialty looks for people. Cut/paste some code and mae a fashion closet for people. Put some people to work revving up the foundry some so they can tell their stories. ..add some real rewards to that old foundry creation quest to spur innovation.
There are ways to keep adding without taking away. There are many that would be perfectly happy to stay within this system without being under constant assault. ..and many more positive responses in places like Reddit when potential players so often ask 'should I play this game'.
Have you ever been in a situation, when you've been asked a question, and asking person didnt bother to listen to your answer? Thats insulting, right? This is exactly same situation. I can understand that devs have a plan, and they wont change their decision under any circumstances. But it doesnt mean, they shouldnt respond to so much feedback. Even simple sentence - Sorry guys we know you are worried but thats gona hit live server as it is, as its a part of a bigger plan.
I bet it would cut this thread for good. One way or another. But that lack of care for a players seems to be bigger issue right now then a bonding nerf.
Have you ever been in a situation, when you've been asked a question, and asking person didnt bother to listen to your answer? Thats insulting, right? This is exactly same situation. I can understand that devs have a plan, and they wont change their decision under any circumstances. But it doesnt mean, they shouldnt respond to so much feedback. Even simple sentence - Sorry guys we know you are worried but thats gona hit live server as it is, as its a part of a bigger plan.
I bet it would cut this thread for good. One way or another. But that lack of care for a players seems to be bigger issue right now then a bonding nerf.
Have you ever been in the kitchen cooking and someone comes in and wants to tell you how to cook your signature dish? You are polite and listen to their recommendations. Then they keep trying to tell you how to make it. By the end of the cooking, they are unhappy because you did not take all their advice. Then they eat your creation and their unhappiness disappears. They think it is delicious! They realize you actually DO know how to cook.
I think its about time they nerfed the bonding's. I like variety, and ever since they first came out, that's all anyone wants. In dungeons if you dont have them you can find yourself kicked out. Its ridiculous. I realise people have spent real money on them, i have too. But to expect a game to never change is a little naive. The bonding's still work, yes its less up-time and in the long run it will force groups to work together a little more instead of having a bunch of zergs just running around.
When i go to a restuarant and order a two pound steak the cook better cook a two pound steak and not a vegan pizza and if i the paying customer say kid you want a tip thenbark like a nice doggie or no 20 dollar tip The paying customer owns you or the restaraunt can forget about paying customers
That is where you are 100% wrong. If you are abusive to staff, any good restaurant will throw you out. And many upscale restaurants, the main chef is god. If you don't like what they cook, there are plenty other people who do.
Supply and demand is king, not the customer.
There are many bar-b-q places that cook a certain amount of meat each day. When it is gone, they close. They run out of meat every day. They always close early. You want their awesome food, you have to play by their rules.
@onodrain You'd be right if there wasn't a small issue. If the chefs treat everyone like HAMSTER, people will stop coming, and the restaurant will go bankrupt. The customer IS king. They give money to the restaurant. They can't conjure it from the HAMSTER aether.
@onodrain You'd be right if there wasn't a small issue. If the chefs treat everyone like HAMSTER, people will stop coming, and the restaurant will go bankrupt. The customer IS king. They give money to the restaurant. They can't conjure it from the HAMSTER aether.
You don't bite the hand that feeds you, mate.
I didn't say anything about chef's treating people poorly. But I responded to someone saying treating waitstaff poorly was ok because they waived a $20 bill at them. That is ridiculous!
Yes, the customer is part of the supply and demand equation. The customer is not the king, they are a participant. The king is the person who created the vision for the restaurant and makes sure that vision is carried through. If people like that vision, the king is successful.
Does everyone like McDonalds? Does everyone like Chipotle? No. And that is ok.
That is in a monarchy. This should be a democracy. People don't like it, people change it. You want the MOST to be satisfied. Otherwise you get situations like the middle east, but I'm getting offtopic now.
I'm not saying everyone should like it, but the way it's going, NO ONE will like it.
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
Ok, I'm once again going to put in my 2 cents - and please everyone keep in mind that my opinions are my own and I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. In my opinion - the reason they are doing this is so that people have more options. Currently as it is on the live server, the only logical option for companions is to go with bondings as high rank as you can afford with the very best slots. With this state - what's the point of even having the augment companions? The only people who have been using augments at all are people who are either too poor to afford bondings, people who are total noobs or haven't done any research at all, or people who just don't care. While yeah, I disagree with them lowering them to the point where rank 14 is the new rank 12, I do agree that they did have to do SOMETHING with them. Having something that is BiS for every class and every build is just bad for everyone in the long run. Having them buff everything else to the point or even close to the point of bondings would be so very much more work, it would throw so much stuff off balance, more than people can generally even imagine. This was basically their only option at this point. I wish, along with a few people, that they had done this a long time ago, like last time they reworked bondings. I'm not sure why they didn't, but I do know that the devs that are working on it this time around are not the same devs that worked on it last time around.
Basically, it is what it is. I do urge everyone to stick around and try the changes. Especially the ones who can't currently get on preview to test them.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Have you ever been in the kitchen cooking and someone comes in and wants to tell you how to cook your signature dish? You are polite and listen to their recommendations. Then they keep trying to tell you how to make it. By the end of the cooking, they are unhappy because you did not take all their advice. Then they eat your creation and their unhappiness disappears. They think it is delicious! They realize you actually DO know how to cook.
Um... if the signature dish is : " a steak " . It is a signature dish of that particular chef and the place he works for. You as a customer will see the advertising for that particular steak. You will go to that place and ask for that particular steak. You as a customer are willing to pay for that steak.
No restaurant will then proceed to give you cooked rice with a gravy out of a can and tell you it is " steak ".
It is the same case with bondings.
We as customers asked our devs for advice first, when bondings came out as they are.
We proceeded to bug the HAMSTER out of them to tell us if it is okay to use them as they are. If they think there is something wrong with them or not.
The devs then replied to us : " Yes, the bondings as they are, right now, in this moment are WAI . " Case closed.
We all then switched to bondings. Bought them with real money and proceeded to use them. They gave them out like candy. In all events, we bought coal wards to get our bondings to rank 12. Since they are HAMSTER WAI. Who would not ? I mean if the dev team said so, then it HAMSTER is. Suddenly the bondings are not WAI any more.
That means nothing to you. But it means heck of a lot to us. And that , my friend, is sad. That is why we asked for reasons and explanations here, in this thread. We expected conversation and possibly cooperation with this community. We might be rude, or pushy , but we do want to play NW for years to come and have fun, buy Zen and support this game. How can we do that if the trust is broken, once again.
I think its about time they nerfed the bonding's. I like variety, and ever since they first came out, that's all anyone wants. In dungeons if you dont have them you can find yourself kicked out. Its ridiculous. I realise people have spent real money on them, i have too. But to expect a game to never change is a little naive. The bonding's still work, yes its less up-time and in the long run it will force groups to work together a little more instead of having a bunch of zergs just running around.
And while i do understand where you are coming from, the nerf as you call it ( and i really hate that word ) is not necessary . The process of the change could have been done in many amazing ways , named in this thread. Starting with just leaving the bondings as they are while proceeding with the plan changed to runestones. No one expects this game not to change. But you stuff too many changes in one go and people have hard time adapting. You know this. The whole freaking world knows this. It is not just bondings nerf. Combine it with Randon q, change to all ench. , change to the skills you use, change to the stats you will lose and in the end, combine that will walling the process of progress beyond running TO9N , the same dungeon you are doing right now and having hard time. And it comes down to , what the HAMSTER am i doing , playing this game , when obviously what i have done so far is god damn useless ?
That is where you are 100% wrong. If you are abusive to staff, any good restaurant will throw you out. And many upscale restaurants, the main chef is god. If you don't like what they cook, there are plenty other people who do.
Supply and demand is king, not the customer.
There are many bar-b-q places that cook a certain amount of meat each day. When it is gone, they close. They run out of meat every day. They always close early. You want their awesome food, you have to play by their rules.
But nice analogy! Thank you for bringing it up!
Lol sweetie, the demand as you put it are the customers willing to pay for your product. Even in the best firms around the world , you do not treat your customers without respect. On the contrary you cooperate with them, when the price you give out is not what they are looking for. Or the product you sell is not to their liking. As you said, there is plenty of products out there, your job , as a supplier , a seller, is to keep the customers you have and add more, to already existing ones. In order to do that, you give discounts to the products. You agree to have already calculated factors. Something they can count on, no matter what. A safety net so to speak. Try selling something to someone after 5 years of doing business , with that particular customer, if you suddenly make your products more expensive, without any reason for the change. They will drop you in a heart beat. Do you know, how i know that ? I work for one of the largest companies out there. As an international seller. If your customer wants a freaking golden flowers on your product, and if that product is in your catalog, you will get that for him, no matter the cost / expense , for you. Why , you may ask ? Trust is the most valuable commodity out there. It can not be bought. You have to earn it. Disappoint your customers a few times and you are out. Like in baseball.
Ok, I'm once again going to put in my 2 cents - and please everyone keep in mind that my opinions are my own and I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. In my opinion - the reason they are doing this is so that people have more options. Currently as it is on the live server, the only logical option for companions is to go with bondings as high rank as you can afford with the very best slots. With this state - what's the point of even having the augment companions? The only people who have been using augments at all are people who are either too poor to afford bondings, people who are total noobs or haven't done any research at all, or people who just don't care. While yeah, I disagree with them lowering them to the point where rank 14 is the new rank 12, I do agree that they did have to do SOMETHING with them. Having something that is BiS for every class and every build is just bad for everyone in the long run. Having them buff everything else to the point or even close to the point of bondings would be so very much more work, it would throw so much stuff off balance, more than people can generally even imagine. This was basically their only option at this point. I wish, along with a few people, that they had done this a long time ago, like last time they reworked bondings. I'm not sure why they didn't, but I do know that the devs that are working on it this time around are not the same devs that worked on it last time around.
Basically, it is what it is. I do urge everyone to stick around and try the changes. Especially the ones who can't currently get on preview to test them.
I can see the point you are making. I do agree with you , people should have more options.
But don't you think they could have maybe started with slow -baby steps , rather then just bombing us with this kind of a change ?
I still have my augmented companions. The first stone i ever bought was the Ione stone. Got it even to legendary. All the pups are somewhere in my inventory as well.
I had to change my stone, to something else. It was actually encouraged to do so. To have a better choice of companions. Having stones started to be not so good. If you remember.
I did not make that into reality. They did. They wanted to make dungeons more lethal. And they did. I did not have anything against it, at the time. We adapted. Then mobs and bosses started to pretty much one hit everything squishy enough. ( like for example the damage dealers who based their build around damage only. )
Then other changes happened. And alright, we adapted.
But don't you think. this is maybe a bit too much ? After so many months and years, trying to achieve what we have now, to be deleted in an instance. I am alright with the refinement changes. That is fine, if i have to i ll go with it. But not at the expense of things i already achieved and gave money for. I will basically be buying what i had / have , right now. It makes no sense. I ll even swallow up the changes to the q. I ll run those leveling dungeons, np. if i have to do them nakkid, to be in pair with the little ones , i ll do it. But this.. this is putting a wrench in every stat i worked for , very hard. And payed for. As well. If something is very hard to do , then it is worth doing. You had to do very hard things in your life i bet. We all did. Was it worth it, in your opinion ? If things have to be fixed before progress, then that is something that must be done. But you can not gate progress behind a wall and then put spikes on that wall, so people can not cross it. I would say ,that is going a step too far in a really bad direction.
@kreatyve On a side note, we could say what you do , right now, is very hard work. You are dealing with a lot of very disappointed and angry customers. We may be stubborn, competitive, argumentative and pushy. Yet you do your job. It is something you do. And i do not see you skipping the responsibility of your job. On the contrary, i see you replying in all the threads, adding your opinion and showing you are around. That i would call responsible and respectable. I do not see any devs doing the same, in this thread. Even if it is a part of the job description.
Comments
> Eliminate "DC/OP power -> Bonded companions -> Companion owner"
> Turn all power buffs into something similar to dark revelry.
>
> Problem is not just power creeping but also the unavailability of power builds, think about it this way:
>
> Power 100; Crit 100
> 100*100 = 10 000
> 110*90 = 9 900
>
> If a player is expecting to get lots of power, investing in power and ignore crit is not an option to any build.
>
>
> This example..... (I assume it's just a bad example choice)
>
> Per the above:
> power 80
> Crit 120
>
> 80 * 120 = 9600.....
> @eliybeats said:
> For those who say people should stop complaining or whining think about this. We live in a society where we supposedly have freedom of speech and that includes how we express ourselves. If you don't like it then that's ok, but don't sit there and think that because the changes out more likely to happen that we'll just shut up. Yeah we can adjust which is true, but the point of this feedback is to give and express our opinions and hope that just maybe we might be heard enough that there'd be further adjustment. The devs might have their hands tied with this one from decisions up higher but they've listened to us before, maybe they would listen to us some more. Maybe at the VERY VERY least there would be some compensation they could give at the start of the mod like a few coal wards, that would be very nice and we know the devs could do it. That would at least take some of the sting out of it. @terramak @noworries#8859 @nitocris83 and other devs, is this possible?
But here it's dictatorship.
Page 1 : Page 2 : Page 10 : @onodrain
We are on the page ..eh...44 right now ?
I've seen all the changes.
If there is a reason other than " it has to happen cos bonding runestone is overpowered and have to be scaled down so other runestones are not useless " we would like to hear it and understand.
We are sick of nerfs. All of us. Sick to the point of puking. We had enough freaking scaling and freaking adjustments that are HAMSTER. Total and absolute HAMSTER i tell you.
If the word " nerf " is all they understand , when we say " fix " something, then obviously our communication with the devs is having a breakdown somewhere.
DC is overpowered = nerf AA
OP is overpowered = nerf bubble
T Bars have coal wards : remove the coal wards
People are running dungeons too much and getting a free chest , oh my , blasphemy = key change
Bondings / powershare / wai = nerf bondings
2 DC meta ? Well now... lets see what will happen there, ha ... i wonder what to expect... hm...
It makes us tired. No one likes changes, you adjust to them in the end , yes. But bomb someone with too many at the same time and people give up. I do not want to lose my guildies over this. Yet again. It was hard enough to refill the guild after mod 6, it was a horrible experience and i do not wish to repeat it again.
This isn't a discussion, as there is no 2 way communication. This is dictation on 1 side and pleading on the other. ...and it wasn't these devs that 'made it possible' to have it. These forums and those on Reddit have existed long before this change or even these devs worked for cryptic. Nothing special or extraordinary was done to enable this particular thread. The initial posts regarding the changes initiated the discussion, but it would have been possible regardless, either now or after the changes went through.
There have been no real concessions. The gist of the changes remains the same. There was a shift which largely seems like a negotiating tactic to threaten a ridiculous solution with additional testing and implementation costs. Pair that with an easy to implement value change with practically 0 implementation cost or testing needed. Then come out as the hero for taking back the change that was costly and beyond reasonable anyway.
These changes are unneeded, misguided, self-harming, and unpopular with the people that actually pay the bills. The only tool we have available to us once talking has proven fruitless is to withhold payment. ..and it appears that is going to be a popular tool in this case, much more than the previous nerfs.
The other thing that most MMOs do, is go out of business. There are more MMOs in the grave than those that exist, and yes most all of them have had major nerf cycles.
It isn't necessary. It certainly isn't necessary in this manner. It also isn't necessary to to it in a prolonged repeated and secretive manner. "Surprise .. the thing we've been busily enticing you to buy over the past year is the thing we're going to do the most damage to."
No.
Want a happy playerbase, try transparency. Try doing something different then those derelicts that have gone before have done.
Heres a possibility. Need more money, come up with a public system for requesting it. 'We need X to keep the servers running. We have Y so far this month.' Want new content we need X+Z subscriptions this quarter.
Need to balance an item that you just implemented that seems a bit strong in the game. Dont spend well over a year promoting it, selling it, having sales on them, and sell them as a free item with all companions, while dropping them like candy at christmas time. ..or in this case bonding runestones at Simril. ..only to nerf it in a plan 'that we've had for a long time'.
In this case its not just the nerf. Its not just the collection of nerfs that came before it. Its not just the marketing, or the in game power. Its not just the feeling of having something you payed for weakened compared to the game, or the futile feeling of being sent backwards instead of moving forwards to new content. If theres new gear to work toward, it gives you something to soothe the loss of your trusty item, instead of having it pulled from you and replaced with a shoddy version as you crawl through the same areas that you ruled for monthes before hand.
It is ALL of this. ..and its they are being given every bit of advice that we can find to avoid this self-inflicted wound.
Bonding nerf in my opinion has double purpose. First - money grabbing. Its obvious. But second is more elusive.I belive Crytpic at this point is simply unable to create a chelenging end game content. It would take lot of time,money, skills and effort to rework this game to a balanced level. It would force devs to reach a game roots, and lots of rework. So instead of putting extra resources on that they simply decided to nerf all players arcoss a board to make current content harder or gated behind sea of grind and/or mounts of real cash. If its gona be hard enaugh you wont need new one even harder content right? Sure, big spenders gona close a gap in no time, but for majority of player base its just adding months of sailing trough a see of grind.Of course this is all supposition, but I wanted to add a bit since its definitely possible that the cost of 'end game content' plays a factor in this.
Dont do it. Not as much anyway. NW devs have had this schedule of new more powerful end game content on a 4 month (ish) basis for years now. Its neat while you can keep it up, but perhaps the system is just tired an cant keep up that pace. Perhaps the strain on the technology makes going bigger/better a more expensive choice as time goes on. So admit it and slow down that schedule while working on QOL items for people. Just state it publicly, were going to a 6 month schedule.
Even just ASK for money like Path of Exile does for newly developed areas. (doesnt even have to be the whole cost, but could be a request for extra purchases to fund x, y, or z. Add a sponsorship or patronage funding level to this.
But the thing is there are simpler things that can be done that are cheaper, and would make people stay AND spend money.
Heck pay some college kids to render up some more fashion. Get mods that have been with the company for a while to help to quality control and release them o the game. Get more transmutes, more specialty looks for people. Cut/paste some code and mae a fashion closet for people. Put some people to work revving up the foundry some so they can tell their stories. ..add some real rewards to that old foundry creation quest to spur innovation.
There are ways to keep adding without taking away. There are many that would be perfectly happy to stay within this system without being under constant assault. ..and many more positive responses in places like Reddit when potential players so often ask 'should I play this game'.
Have you ever been in a situation, when you've been asked a question, and asking person didnt bother to listen to your answer?
Thats insulting, right? This is exactly same situation. I can understand that devs have a plan, and they wont change their decision under any circumstances. But it doesnt mean, they shouldnt respond to so much feedback. Even simple sentence - Sorry guys we know you are worried but thats gona hit live server as it is, as its a part of a bigger plan.
I bet it would cut this thread for good. One way or another. But that lack of care for a players seems to be bigger issue right now then a bonding nerf.
Supply and demand is king, not the customer.
There are many bar-b-q places that cook a certain amount of meat each day. When it is gone, they close. They run out of meat every day. They always close early. You want their awesome food, you have to play by their rules.
But nice analogy! Thank you for bringing it up!
You'd be right if there wasn't a small issue. If the chefs treat everyone like HAMSTER, people will stop coming, and the restaurant will go bankrupt. The customer IS king. They give money to the restaurant. They can't conjure it from the HAMSTER aether.
You don't bite the hand that feeds you, mate.
Yes, the customer is part of the supply and demand equation. The customer is not the king, they are a participant. The king is the person who created the vision for the restaurant and makes sure that vision is carried through. If people like that vision, the king is successful.
Does everyone like McDonalds? Does everyone like Chipotle? No. And that is ok.
Not everyone will like NWN. And that is ok, too.
I'm not saying everyone should like it, but the way it's going, NO ONE will like it.
Basically, it is what it is. I do urge everyone to stick around and try the changes. Especially the ones who can't currently get on preview to test them.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
It is a signature dish of that particular chef and the place he works for.
You as a customer will see the advertising for that particular steak.
You will go to that place and ask for that particular steak.
You as a customer are willing to pay for that steak.
No restaurant will then proceed to give you cooked rice with a gravy out of a can and tell you it is " steak ".
It is the same case with bondings.
We as customers asked our devs for advice first, when bondings came out as they are.
We proceeded to bug the HAMSTER out of them to tell us if it is okay to use them as they are.
If they think there is something wrong with them or not.
The devs then replied to us : " Yes, the bondings as they are, right now, in this moment are WAI . "
Case closed.
We all then switched to bondings.
Bought them with real money and proceeded to use them. They gave them out like candy. In all events, we bought coal wards to get our bondings to rank 12.
Since they are HAMSTER WAI. Who would not ?
I mean if the dev team said so, then it HAMSTER is.
Suddenly the bondings are not WAI any more.
That means nothing to you. But it means heck of a lot to us.
And that , my friend, is sad. That is why we asked for reasons and explanations here, in this thread.
We expected conversation and possibly cooperation with this community.
We might be rude, or pushy , but we do want to play NW for years to come and have fun, buy Zen and support this game.
How can we do that if the trust is broken, once again. And while i do understand where you are coming from, the nerf as you call it ( and i really hate that word ) is not necessary .
The process of the change could have been done in many amazing ways , named in this thread.
Starting with just leaving the bondings as they are while proceeding with the plan changed to runestones.
No one expects this game not to change.
But you stuff too many changes in one go and people have hard time adapting. You know this. The whole freaking world knows this.
It is not just bondings nerf. Combine it with Randon q, change to all ench. , change to the skills you use, change to the stats you will lose and in the end, combine that will walling the process of progress beyond running TO9N , the same dungeon you are doing right now and having hard time. And it comes down to , what the HAMSTER am i doing , playing this game , when obviously what i have done so far is god damn useless ? Lol sweetie, the demand as you put it are the customers willing to pay for your product.
Even in the best firms around the world , you do not treat your customers without respect.
On the contrary you cooperate with them, when the price you give out is not what they are looking for. Or the product you sell is not to their liking.
As you said, there is plenty of products out there, your job , as a supplier , a seller, is to keep the customers you have and add more, to already existing ones. In order to do that, you give discounts to the products.
You agree to have already calculated factors. Something they can count on, no matter what. A safety net so to speak.
Try selling something to someone after 5 years of doing business , with that particular customer, if you suddenly make your products more expensive, without any reason for the change.
They will drop you in a heart beat.
Do you know, how i know that ? I work for one of the largest companies out there. As an international seller.
If your customer wants a freaking golden flowers on your product, and if that product is in your catalog, you will get that for him, no matter the cost / expense , for you. Why , you may ask ? Trust is the most valuable commodity out there.
It can not be bought. You have to earn it. Disappoint your customers a few times and you are out. Like in baseball. I can see the point you are making.
I do agree with you , people should have more options.
But don't you think they could have maybe started with slow -baby steps , rather then just bombing us with this kind of a change ?
I still have my augmented companions. The first stone i ever bought was the Ione stone. Got it even to legendary.
All the pups are somewhere in my inventory as well.
I had to change my stone, to something else. It was actually encouraged to do so. To have a better choice of companions.
Having stones started to be not so good. If you remember.
I did not make that into reality. They did. They wanted to make dungeons more lethal. And they did.
I did not have anything against it, at the time. We adapted.
Then mobs and bosses started to pretty much one hit everything squishy enough. ( like for example the damage dealers who based their build around damage only. )
Then other changes happened. And alright, we adapted.
But don't you think. this is maybe a bit too much ?
After so many months and years, trying to achieve what we have now, to be deleted in an instance.
I am alright with the refinement changes. That is fine, if i have to i ll go with it. But not at the expense of things i already achieved and gave money for. I will basically be buying what i had / have , right now. It makes no sense.
I ll even swallow up the changes to the q.
I ll run those leveling dungeons, np. if i have to do them nakkid, to be in pair with the little ones , i ll do it.
But this.. this is putting a wrench in every stat i worked for , very hard. And payed for. As well.
If something is very hard to do , then it is worth doing. You had to do very hard things in your life i bet.
We all did. Was it worth it, in your opinion ?
If things have to be fixed before progress, then that is something that must be done.
But you can not gate progress behind a wall and then put spikes on that wall, so people can not cross it.
I would say ,that is going a step too far in a really bad direction.
@kreatyve
On a side note, we could say what you do , right now, is very hard work.
You are dealing with a lot of very disappointed and angry customers.
We may be stubborn, competitive, argumentative and pushy. Yet you do your job.
It is something you do. And i do not see you skipping the responsibility of your job.
On the contrary, i see you replying in all the threads, adding your opinion and showing you are around.
That i would call responsible and respectable.
I do not see any devs doing the same, in this thread. Even if it is a part of the job description.