I think it's a huuugggee mistake. They should leave bondings alone completely. New guys can run augment, and it's cheaper going augment route. And the new guys don't have the ability to shame bondings because they haven't put the Time and money/ad in the game that the older players have. Once they max everything they should want to upgrade to bondings because bondings should be significantly better. You can pick up any runestones (rank 5) except bondings. You are losing huge player base because of this decision. How about instead of ruining everything you just add more content? If it's too hard for new players, add level 6000 item level dungeons. Most guilds have boons now, so there's a good 1k-2k item level. I got 2 chars to 12k in 6 months, one without boons, while also building 4 other alts. It's not impossible to gear up if you just stick to it. Buff in game content, quit nerfing the players and all their gear. If this turns out to be that big of a deal and is going to cost 100x what I have already done, I'll just play path of exile, and blackdesert when it releases. And maybe Destiny. Not gonna continually buy zen every week if they are just going to waste my time and money.
If we think this is bad wait till they raise the level cap again. And they have already had some talk on that. Hopefully it want be Mod.6 bad and just maybe this will make it a little less painful . They never really give us the big picture and that is on them. So we can only hope that this is being done with what is yet to come. Any wanting to leave over this sure would have never survived Mod.6 . I do very much understand all the feelings over this but have gotten used to the F2P models and this is how they work, more often than not.
i would not call this a "micro"-transaction game. feels more like wallet killing transactions game. the costs are way beyond micro. spend more on one game in a year than you need to for any AAA game easily, and still not have a BIS character. and now, with this nerf it will be more expensive.
13
santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
If we think this is bad wait till they raise the level cap again. And they have already had some talk on that. Hopefully it want be Mod.6 bad and just maybe this will make it a little less painful . They never really give us the big picture and that is on them. So we can only hope that this is being done with what is yet to come. Any wanting to leave over this sure would have never survived Mod.6 . I do very much understand all the feelings over this but have gotten used to the F2P models and this is how they work, more often than not.
Did go through Mod 6, don't plan on watching that debacle all over again! And this feels a lot like Mod 6, with multiple "re-works" in the offing. Hopefully they don't swallow a bunch of content with it this time.
2
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Did go through Mod 6, don't plan on watching that debacle all over again! And this feels a lot like Mod 6, with multiple "re-works" in the offing. Hopefully they don't swallow a bunch of content with it this time.
I "survived" Mod 6 - however, it did cause me to leave the game for a year. I am here to have fun, not to be frustrated. If a game is not fun, I do not play it - as simple as that.
Mod 6 simply made the game "not fun". Now, I don't know how bad this will be in comparison - but I am seriously worried about the long-term future of the game. There is another game I have my eyes on, but it is not scheduled to be released until 2019 - I just hope NWO will last until then.
I think it's safe to say that whatever way everything is now, will remain until the next time they decide to nerf things in the next mod, as they have not commented in almost a week or something.
I think it's safe to say that whatever way everything is now, will remain until the next time they decide to nerf things in the next mod, as they have not commented in almost a week or something.
I think it's safe to say that whatever way everything is now, will remain until the next time they decide to nerf things in the next mod, as they have not commented in almost a week or something.
Going back to bondings giving 95% stats is bad idea because:
- IL fix is needed for a long time now since they provide so much more stats than similar runestones; - Go back on new r14 system otherwise we would see monstrous power creeping. - Amount of players in endgame lower if other runestones where buffed(removing them is not an option, there are people with them even before any nerf acknowledged) since the prices would rise up to something closer to bondings, causing also issues in game economy since a lot of RP comes from them. -Lowering the price of bondings to the current system but maintaining the 95% gift share would make the AD value of each enchantment slotted on companion much bigger than on player; (a little like it is now, but now imagine r14's) - Still no solution for the possibility of builds that focus on a companion ability and not player, that are appearing now;
The fix is good i just think it should be done something like: Ninja nerf bondings to 65% R14 (like it is now) and by each bonding a player has he would receive some items that would allow the player to get approximately the same stats as now, this way, no need to go back on R14 enchants as well (that part is the part that tells me more bondings are not coming back to 95% each).
So...let's say the new production price of bondings R14 is 1 250 000 and the production price of bondings on live now is 2 500 000, then players would automatically receive bondings r14 if they had r12 plus something like 1 upgrade token, that would make a successful upgrade from any runestone r12 to r13 jump to r14, this ofc needed to be all ninja because price on AH has dropped to the point people would now exploit that.
I'm fine with it.. honestly I don't care.. I had the foresight to see this coming a long time back.. even without bondings I did the so called challeging tomb of the nine gods.. I talked abt how broken I felt the second boss was on preview and here we are at live and its all the same thing.. poor me for thinking this boss was something else, orcus was just a stupid demon in your iteration(don't think he was according to the books/lores).. you utterly ruined castle never with this demon infiltration.. you tried to make him better with his death avatar and he still is stupid..i'm going to keep hijacking every new thread I see because what I really want to talk abt never shows up.. Guys I totally loved 2 dungeons (cn and dread vault) Epic dread vault was a master piece.. kudos to whoever designed it back then with our restricted stats and diminishing returns.. nothing ever since has left me more challenged and more obligated to do my class role.. I want to talk abt hunting too since I'm hijacking anyways.. caps to get the point across.. IT'S THE WORST OPEN WORLD ACTIVITY YOU COULD HAVE IMPLEMENTED.. getting back to on track.. bondings don't matter so much for me because I've never found any fun in burning any boss or killing things with a few keyboardays love taps anyways..
i would not call this a "micro"-transaction game. feels more like wallet killing transactions game. the costs are way beyond micro. spend more on one game in a year than you need to for any AAA game easily, and still not have a BIS character. and now, with this nerf it will be more expensive.
Beyond getting VIP for the first few months to get going, I don't see anything in this game that requires spending. You can amass a ton of stuff just by playing regularly and taking advantage of sales and events to convert your ad to zen. It used to be that you'd want to buy an epic mount for all your characters but in the last months their price hav crashed (since the winter event), and you can now even get free ones from several events.
Even further, I'd say anybody willing to spend $$$ for coal wards just to get his enchants from R13 to R14 is making a huge mistake. The stat gain is nowhere near being worth it.
I think the bonding change is a healthy choice, any serious gamer will admit they are too powerful and make the gap between new and BiS players far too wide.
But I do believe augments do need more buffs. companions vs augment should almost be the same, augment only with a slight stat contribution lower (since companions have access to protector's camaderie). That way, both are an option. With the current preview build bondings are still far superior than augments and nothing will change in that regard.
I'd suggest buffing all runestones to give +40% stats on top of whatever stats they give.
How about they just allow bondings on augments. Then just give them a special use granting 50% of their original value on augments only... seems like they did this once before. Maybe not 50% value, but i seem to recall using bondings on the cube a while back. Im not a math wiz, but wouldnt that make them more inline with each other?
How about they just allow bondings on augments. Then just give them a special use granting 50% of their original value on augments only... seems like they did this once before. Maybe not 50% value, but i seem to recall using bondings on the cube a while back. Im not a math wiz, but wouldnt that make them more inline with each other?
People put "Normal" Bonding (r8) to augment because using 3 of them is just 105% (comparing with 100% from augment) and it gives more Power than a rank 9 Empowered runestone. It makes even more sense if one has less than 3 "Normal" bonding.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
First off I have to say that I personally disagree with the changes they are planning. Only because they tried to BS the reason they wanted to Nerf bondings. Because the changes they made did absolutely nothing to correct the issue about making the others more viable.
Now as far as all the whining and complaining on here,... seriously a lot of you are acting like someone's child that had their toys taken away. Yes, anyone with any intellect can see that it is at this point a 100% money grab based off of their responses about that it wasn't about power creep and it was about bring the others in line which they didn't. The fact that you are just as powerful with full rank 14's as we are right now. They know the Community doesn't want the change. They know why and they know the proper way to fix/ address the issues. They do what they do for their own reasons which we will probably never be privy to. All of that BS aside at the end of the day this game is Cryptics mess and you have 3 choices.
1) carry on like nothing has changed and play the game they give you. 2) keep playing, being disgruntled and just don't put any more money into it. 3) stop playing.
There are things in the game that I like and things I dislike. If I ever get to the point where the game is no longer fun I'll find something else to occupy my free time.
As I see they didn't even try to atleast calm down the forest fire (but kind of sure that they are working on a different solution than as it now). I don't know why they are no one there to say that it's a horrible idea, but at least they can be sure by now. So, to at least fasten the process, I mention some guidelines to consider in the new bonding system.
-Augment should give the most stat percentage. They almost have no effect, cannot attack, don't proc stuff, don't affected by power-sharing as I know... so it seems reasonable that these disadvantages should be taken into account.
-Bonding should be reliable investment, because you are decided it as a premium item.
-The use of bondings on augment instead of empowered shouldn't happen.
-Make bonding do the same thing on Offensive and Defensive slots (like you did with Eldritch). It just handycaps so much mixed slot companion to the uselessness.
As seems, some of the stuff happened, but the 2k stat does not really sells me the other runestones, when percentage can give unseriously high amount of stats. But if they are only designing them up to 1 slot of the three... okay.
My solution is to make something like this:
Bonding 100% uptime
Rank 7 - 30% stats 150 power AND 150 def Rank 8 - 35% stats 200 power AND 200 def . . . Rank 14 -65% stats 500 power AND 500 def
Eldritch
Rank 6 - 10% ...breaking point in percentages, then fix +4% per level... Rank 7 - 13% Rank 8 - 17% Rank 8 - 21% . . . Rank 14 - 40%
Any other stat stone should give up to 3k power
So, in basic, it's a 180% with augment + 3k power from Empowered or 220% of your stat and a 195% with bonding +1500 power and def, but Sellsword debuff, Anointed army stuff or just the DPS it can give.
And at the moment I don't know how it works now, but making the augment base stat to count in powersharing would give them + utility.
3
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
The problem wasn't that the bondings are too strong. It's that they have way outweighed anything else so much that there is no point in using a companion without them. To bring everything else up to the point where bondings are would cause even more balancing issues than are already in the game. The only option was to nerf them a bit.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
this is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.. nerfing something that the game has been built around because other elements of the game that are years older aren't in line with is silly. way to alienate your fan base. bring the other things up. nerfing to bring it in line with something that is farrrr too weak is not the way to go. buff don't nerf. especially when your player base has heavy investments. fy da
0
santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
The problem wasn't that the bondings are too strong. It's that they have way outweighed anything else so much that there is no point in using a companion without them. To bring everything else up to the point where bondings are would cause even more balancing issues than are already in the game. The only option was to nerf them a bit.
I think they would be too powerful--if there were a 13th and 14th rank. The devs decided 16 mos. ago that their current use is WAI. I was for nerfing them at that time.
0
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
The problem wasn't that the bondings are too strong. It's that they have way outweighed anything else so much that there is no point in using a companion without them. To bring everything else up to the point where bondings are would cause even more balancing issues than are already in the game. The only option was to nerf them a bit.
I think they would be too powerful--if there were a 13th and 14th rank. The devs decided 16 mos. ago that their current use is WAI. I was for nerfing them at that time.
I agree that they waited far too long with them being very overpowered. I don't think they are denying that either. But it did need to be done at some point. Other things just got in the way of it being done. I know that's no excuse, but it is what it is. People will adapt, or they will leave. If you are planning on leaving, please just go quietly, you don't need to post about it here for us to have to moderate it. The game is free, your stuff should still be there when and if you decide to come back.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
> @dragonsbane3 said: > First off I have to say that I personally disagree with the changes they are planning. Only because they tried to BS the reason they wanted to Nerf bondings. Because the changes they made did absolutely nothing to correct the issue about making the others more viable. > > Now as far as all the whining and complaining on here,... seriously a lot of you are acting like someone's child that had their toys taken away. Yes, anyone with any intellect can see that it is at this point a 100% money grab based off of their responses about that it wasn't about power creep and it was about bring the others in line which they didn't. The fact that you are just as powerful with full rank 14's as we are right now. They know the Community doesn't want the change. They know why and they know the proper way to fix/ address the issues. They do what they do for their own reasons which we will probably never be privy to. All of that BS aside at the end of the day this game is Cryptics mess and you have 3 choices. > > 1) carry on like nothing has changed and play the game they give you. > 2) keep playing, being disgruntled and just don't put any more money into it. > 3) stop playing. > > There are things in the game that I like and things I dislike. If I ever get to the point where the game is no longer fun I'll find something else to occupy my free time.
For me it's gonna be 2 then 3. I've put more money than I should have into the game because I love it. I put it there for progression and cosmetics. However, I'm not going to by back stats I already have. 3 will come when the game becomes a hindrance for me, and that's when I can't run FBI or MSPC as I do now. I'm not going back to CN or less.
Comments
feels more like wallet killing transactions game. the costs are way beyond micro. spend more on one game in a year than you need to for any AAA game easily, and still not have a BIS character.
and now, with this nerf it will be more expensive.
Mod 6 simply made the game "not fun". Now, I don't know how bad this will be in comparison - but I am seriously worried about the long-term future of the game. There is another game I have my eyes on, but it is not scheduled to be released until 2019 - I just hope NWO will last until then.
buff augment/runestone.
Leave bondings alone!
- IL fix is needed for a long time now since they provide so much more stats than similar runestones;
- Go back on new r14 system otherwise we would see monstrous power creeping.
- Amount of players in endgame lower if other runestones where buffed(removing them is not an option, there are people with them even before any nerf acknowledged) since the prices would rise up to something closer to bondings, causing also issues in game economy since a lot of RP comes from them.
-Lowering the price of bondings to the current system but maintaining the 95% gift share would make the AD value of each enchantment slotted on companion much bigger than on player; (a little like it is now, but now imagine r14's)
- Still no solution for the possibility of builds that focus on a companion ability and not player, that are appearing now;
The fix is good i just think it should be done something like: Ninja nerf bondings to 65% R14 (like it is now) and by each bonding a player has he would receive some items that would allow the player to get approximately the same stats as now, this way, no need to go back on R14 enchants as well (that part is the part that tells me more bondings are not coming back to 95% each).
So...let's say the new production price of bondings R14 is 1 250 000 and the production price of bondings on live now is 2 500 000, then players would automatically receive bondings r14 if they had r12 plus something like 1 upgrade token, that would make a successful upgrade from any runestone r12 to r13 jump to r14, this ofc needed to be all ninja because price on AH has dropped to the point people would now exploit that.
Even further, I'd say anybody willing to spend $$$ for coal wards just to get his enchants from R13 to R14 is making a huge mistake. The stat gain is nowhere near being worth it.
But I do believe augments do need more buffs. companions vs augment should almost be the same, augment only with a slight stat contribution lower (since companions have access to protector's camaderie). That way, both are an option. With the current preview build bondings are still far superior than augments and nothing will change in that regard.
I'd suggest buffing all runestones to give +40% stats on top of whatever stats they give.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
[The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)
Now as far as all the whining and complaining on here,... seriously a lot of you are acting like someone's child that had their toys taken away. Yes, anyone with any intellect can see that it is at this point a 100% money grab based off of their responses about that it wasn't about power creep and it was about bring the others in line which they didn't. The fact that you are just as powerful with full rank 14's as we are right now. They know the Community doesn't want the change. They know why and they know the proper way to fix/ address the issues. They do what they do for their own reasons which we will probably never be privy to. All of that BS aside at the end of the day this game is Cryptics mess and you have 3 choices.
1) carry on like nothing has changed and play the game they give you.
2) keep playing, being disgruntled and just don't put any more money into it.
3) stop playing.
There are things in the game that I like and things I dislike. If I ever get to the point where the game is no longer fun I'll find something else to occupy my free time.
-Augment should give the most stat percentage. They almost have no effect, cannot attack, don't proc stuff, don't affected by power-sharing as I know... so it seems reasonable that these disadvantages should be taken into account.
-Bonding should be reliable investment, because you are decided it as a premium item.
-The use of bondings on augment instead of empowered shouldn't happen.
-Make bonding do the same thing on Offensive and Defensive slots (like you did with Eldritch). It just handycaps so much mixed slot companion to the uselessness.
As seems, some of the stuff happened, but the 2k stat does not really sells me the other runestones, when percentage can give unseriously high amount of stats. But if they are only designing them up to 1 slot of the three... okay.
My solution is to make something like this:
Bonding 100% uptime
Rank 7 - 30% stats 150 power AND 150 def
Rank 8 - 35% stats 200 power AND 200 def
.
.
.
Rank 14 -65% stats 500 power AND 500 def
Eldritch
Rank 6 - 10%
...breaking point in percentages, then fix +4% per level...
Rank 7 - 13%
Rank 8 - 17%
Rank 8 - 21%
.
.
.
Rank 14 - 40%
Any other stat stone should give up to 3k power
So, in basic, it's a 180% with augment + 3k power from Empowered or 220% of your stat and a 195% with bonding +1500 power and def, but Sellsword debuff, Anointed army stuff or just the DPS it can give.
And at the moment I don't know how it works now, but making the augment base stat to count in powersharing would give them + utility.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
> First off I have to say that I personally disagree with the changes they are planning. Only because they tried to BS the reason they wanted to Nerf bondings. Because the changes they made did absolutely nothing to correct the issue about making the others more viable.
>
> Now as far as all the whining and complaining on here,... seriously a lot of you are acting like someone's child that had their toys taken away. Yes, anyone with any intellect can see that it is at this point a 100% money grab based off of their responses about that it wasn't about power creep and it was about bring the others in line which they didn't. The fact that you are just as powerful with full rank 14's as we are right now. They know the Community doesn't want the change. They know why and they know the proper way to fix/ address the issues. They do what they do for their own reasons which we will probably never be privy to. All of that BS aside at the end of the day this game is Cryptics mess and you have 3 choices.
>
> 1) carry on like nothing has changed and play the game they give you.
> 2) keep playing, being disgruntled and just don't put any more money into it.
> 3) stop playing.
>
> There are things in the game that I like and things I dislike. If I ever get to the point where the game is no longer fun I'll find something else to occupy my free time.
For me it's gonna be 2 then 3. I've put more money than I should have into the game because I love it. I put it there for progression and cosmetics. However, I'm not going to by back stats I already have. 3 will come when the game becomes a hindrance for me, and that's when I can't run FBI or MSPC as I do now. I'm not going back to CN or less.