Well who is to say they won't start introducing Refinement into some Epic Dungeons. The new Daily Random Queues (which they also recently increased AD bonus for each) will now award a 25000 (today) or 2500 (future) refinement stone one time for Epic as a daily reward, plus other Black Perls as you queue for more...
Maybe we'll see a few more Epic Dungeons include RP in chests or more items drops from bosses? We know Bonus RP weekends will expand Refinement rewards during the event from Campaigns, Leadership or the odd Skirmish or Trial that reward them today. The same will likely be true from SoMi treasures awarding possibly twice as much which if you get a Brilliant Diamond is fairly significant. We may also see changes to leadership as well.
Still the whole idea behind R14 is not necessarily to get there overnight; but give something for players to continue to grow their characters over the next 2-4 years. They've already said some dungeons may need to be rebalanced and are likely already looking into it.
If you lucky to find an Augment that has only 3 defensive Rune slots; I think the most at best have 2. So many Augments are limited to 125%-150% (no legendary bonus) but still it's better than it was before.
If you haven't realized/read, yet: Eldritch runestone grants pet stat transfer in both Defense and Offense slots (lost ArPen in offense).
I think they could just have stated we are going to do this line one of this post - since it was their intention all along regardless of feedback and saved everyone wear and tear on their typing fingers
I would just like to say, forgive me devs (please don't delete me) that not every player is BIS. In fact, the majority of my guild, are working toward this goal and their priority is building up the guild, as opposed to themselves. So these changes (the bonding changes, enchantments and dungeon q system) affects guilds as well as individual players. My SH is GH 12, many players are new, 8 - 10k, and have not completed all campaigns. Many of them, limited by playtime and or cash, devote their time doing guild quests. These changes make it harder for them. As a result our guild will suffer. I'm sure I'm not alone in expressing this as a concern.
I don't believe that they are gonna back out of these changes, but what I can hope for is that maybe they adjust them a little bit. Right now, it's ridiculous the amount you are going to have to invest to get back where you were. If it weren't, then maybe it would be a bit more tolerable to do so. Maybe tweak the dungeons a little. For instance, if you can do FBI now, still have it to where you can do FBI when the mod drops at around the same time frame (not speed running). Going from being able to knock it out in 30 minutes vs not being able to do it at all is gonna be a game killer for some people.
Develop new dungeons that now work with the changes in stats. That way people will have to progress to do them. I think the issue is people losing their stats and being forced to do stuff they've done a thousand times and have moved on from because now they can't do what they were doing, and forget about even trying new stuff. That's where a lot of my issues come into play. It's not even that it's a blatant cash grab, companies need money. Do I feel they could have done something different to earn money? Well, yeah, of course. Then again, it's not necessarily the devs that want these changes, it's the idiots in charge that command the devs to do it.
I think the players are expressing their feelings here because they are passionate about this game. It's like being in love with someone, only to find out they are stealing from you. That passion goes from one end of the spectrum to the other. The moderators aren't helping and the devs aren't helping. What they need is professional customer service type people to mediate these forums during this time, be more transparent.
I seriously do not want to quit this game, I love it. I've invested a lot of time and money into it. I do feel this could have been handled better, and hopefully they will still tweak the changes before they go live. Just let me continue to do the content I've worked hard to do (modify that content to the same scale the players will be after the change), let me work up to running new content (then I have no issue putting time and money into my progression), and work on not only new and growing content, but fixes to bugs that have been around for a long time instead of doing several massive changes at once that are gonna HAMSTER a lot of people off. Then I would be content, maybe not happy, but able to deal with it enough that I will still continue to invest as I have to grow my character.
> Sorry @strathkin, but the the main issue I have is not the total amount of stats. It's the approach. If bondings are too powerful they are right in nerfing them and I have no objections (even if I have two sets of rank 12s). And upping other types of runestones to match is ok. What I can't stand is that at the same time they resell us the same power level we had (wasn't it broken?) by adding enchant ranks.
>
> Either bondings are too powerful or they are not. Period. What they are telling us is: bondings are broken, but if you give us 500 bucks they are not broken anymore...
>
> Well I certainty appreciate your feedback as you mostly seem like a respectful individual. But I don't think they are saying they are broken but require a correction which is what a NERF attempts to do. Attempting to BUFF everything else to that level only makes the problem bigger rather than address the cause.
>
> I know you disagree but honestly a 9 to 1 advantage over every other stone is clear candidate for corrective action. Also no where have they said you give us money will we overlook the issue. All new stones R7 start at a higher 30% augmentation (not 20%) and while the dual higher buff remains (the only one to offer it) it then increases the augment boost at a more level 5% per rank increased.
What I meant is that you can basically buy back your power by buying RP, marks and wards. Marks from TONG will be unbound according to a dev statement in the other thread so they'll flow to the auction in a few days as soon as top end players will have enough marks for their characters. So within a few days, with cash you can buy back everything you had before or you can grind ad and do the same. This means that either way you'll get back to the same level you have today (which is supposedly too high for the content...).
Exactly so and what sticks in the craw so much and shows its not a rebalancing issue. You have to have a massive blindspot to fail to recognise that reality. If they are not WAI then you should not be able to recover the stats through spending cash (or AD).
> @treesclimber said: > @ragequittingdc#8599 > > You touched the most important point, if these runestones exist and have the same rank of bondings, why can i not use them? Are they here just to pass the butter? > > The other content is done easily without bondings because it's much easier, lostmauth for example has like....20million HP maybe, and Storvard 1 billion or more.... > > It's a bit about "inverse power creep", if you notice the expected performance/price ratio has increased a lot with this update, compare the price of a future R12 to the price of a current R10 that will both be at ration of +/- 1,4 to the top enchantment. > My FBI runs last 2 hours while there are people running it in 11 minutes, and why? because i get put into a random group that thinks the fact that their non bonding runestones are giving them enough IL to queue are good for the content, with this rework the acessibillity of new player to content more close to endgame has increased tremendously, power creepingis not fixed, but everyone will be a little bit closer to it, in fact i think from now on all runs will be much more pleasurable. > > Would you be totally fine if the devs picked up eldritch and made it grant 75% stats and other runestones 4200 and raise their price to bondings price? So the amount of players running endgame would be even less and instead of a 2 hours run i would have no run at all. > Or would you rather that they were increased in stats without any prices rework? Then a lot of people would cry " mine where more expensive".
it's simple, bondings were reworked with the intention of being the go to runestones for the release of tier 3 content, up until this announcement they were considered WAI.
I couldn't disagree more with that statement though, that the tier 1/2 dungeons are simply just too easy to require bondings. the most important, IMO, part of the bondings is to give the dps enough of a boost to bring down the various different creatures and bosses in ample time before the rest of the group can't keep up with the mechanics, and they, the mechanics, all are unique despite this being a common theme within all the dungeons/trials.
maybe you have forgotten what it's like to pug or even premade valindra as an 8k-9k toon and not be able to break all the coffins leading to a steady build up of adds that you can't kill fast enough, or struggle to get away from the wraiths because you still have a weak stamina pool from lack of campaign boons. sure, the same dungeon is easily done with an 11k group, because they've done it so many times and have rank 4 on all their at wills/encounters/passives, most of the campaign boons and some guild boons.
with the nerf, the amount of dps needed in tier 3 doesn't change, as there has been no mention of a rework of the content. so what makes you think bumping other runestones to a point that's still weaker than even the nerfed bondings going to do, except bring even more of the same. people that disliked bondings are going to be over-joyed until they realize, they just blacklisted themselves from tier 3 even more so, unless they are these characters; tanks that build more balanced(def/off build), with the nerf they'll have to buy a respec coin probably and switch a few enchants, but they'll still be in high demand and fully capable. secondly dc's, as was already mentioned, their powershare will still be off the charts with the nerf intact, and so, they will remain in high demand and fully capable of tier 3.
the end result, more 2 dc AC/DO OP GF and insert hdps groups. so much more than now because everybody does less dps so full buffs/debuffs are seen even more as a "must have". the only change there will be is an increase in ilvl req. to join those groups. since other runestones were left out of the equation when developing tier 3 content, the most logical solution IMO, is to now buff them in some way or another, without the bonding nerf, and to test it on the preview server to gauge the viability and make adjustments if needed.
I don't believe that they are gonna back out of these changes, but what I can hope for is that maybe they adjust them a little bit. Right now, it's ridiculous the amount you are going to have to invest to get back where you were. If it weren't, then maybe it would be a bit more tolerable to do so. Maybe tweak the dungeons a little. For instance, if you can do FBI now, still have it to where you can do FBI when the mod drops at around the same time frame (not speed running). Going from being able to knock it out in 30 minutes vs not being able to do it at all is gonna be a game killer for some people.
Develop new dungeons that now work with the changes in stats. That way people will have to progress to do them. I think the issue is people losing their stats and being forced to do stuff they've done a thousand times and have moved on from because now they can't do what they were doing, and forget about even trying new stuff. That's where a lot of my issues come into play. It's not even that it's a blatant cash grab, companies need money. Do I feel they could have done something different to earn money? Well, yeah, of course. Then again, it's not necessarily the devs that want these changes, it's the idiots in charge that command the devs to do it.
I think the players are expressing their feelings here because they are passionate about this game. It's like being in love with someone, only to find out they are stealing from you. That passion goes from one end of the spectrum to the other. The moderators aren't helping and the devs aren't helping. What they need is professional customer service type people to mediate these forums during this time, be more transparent.
I seriously do not want to quit this game, I love it. I've invested a lot of time and money into it. I do feel this could have been handled better, and hopefully they will still tweak the changes before they go live. Just let me continue to do the content I've worked hard to do (modify that content to the same scale the players will be after the change), let me work up to running new content (then I have no issue putting time and money into my progression), and work on not only new and growing content, but fixes to bugs that have been around for a long time instead of doing several massive changes at once that are gonna HAMSTER a lot of people off. Then I would be content, maybe not happy, but able to deal with it enough that I will still continue to invest as I have to grow my character.
+1
This has become the norm for this company unfortunately. They are unscrupulous when it comes to these adjustments. Most people that have been around a while know it, they are not to be trusted and the only hope is to try to mitigate their misguided efforts to fill the company coffers. They always present us with a pile of garbage and a kick in the balls carefully word-smithed, fully knowing the imminent backlash. They throw us a bone and tell us "ok, we won't kick you in the nuts, enjoy your garbage, stop at the zen shop on your way out".
I don't believe for one second that this is not about selling back stolen progression. If it were about balance, they would have scripted them all over to 14 when the patch drops and said "sorry, they are the same as before, everything else is rising to meet them". It's incredibly frustrating to see a game with a great LP and combat managed so poorly. I believe you are correct, of course they will not back down on this decision, they invested resources in pushing it to this point and likely have built in "acceptable player losses" which is certain to come. The extent of that gamble is yet to be seen, they may come out ok or lose big, then we'll all go down with a dead MMO, which I sincerely do not want to see. I also believe you're correct that this kind of decision comes from higher up the food chain...boss isn't always right but they're always the boss. Where is their lead dev during this uproar? Have we heard anything from him? Is he hiding in his office? If I led my workgroup like that I'd be surprised if they showed up for work the following Monday.
I don't have a problem in investing into something I care about. It's when you pull something away from me and tell me I have to rebuy it is when I have a problem. If I'm already able to run certain content, I don't want to not be able to do it. I'm 15.2k, play one character. No alts. And all I prefer to run is FBI, MSPC, and some skirmishes for rings and companion gear. It's not because I am elitist, it's because I've ran everything else to death and there is no payout for me on those other dungeons. I have 3 days where I can actually play the game longer than an hour due to a busy life. This nerf affects people like me the most and ruins the satisfaction of the game.
My wife plays a SW, and is a bit lower. She won't feel the bonding nerf as bad, but maybe the owlbear cub nerf. We just bought her best friend a ps4 so she can play NW with my wife, and seeing how she isn't level 70 yet, she won't feel the nerf at all. I'm the one affected. How does that make me want to continue playing.
If they tweaked the current dungeons on console to go along with this change, I am fine. Yet I don't want to have to spend millions of ad to run content I already do. I have mostly rank 10-11 enchants but rank 12 bondings, so it will take me a while to run content I already do as well as new content. I'm not going to sink money up into that. If it was just new content, sure. But not existing. And the timing..... Poorly planned. Too many good games that will catch other people's attention are coming out. People will leave. I will have trouble finding groups. I already am having trouble lately finding groups, yet when these changes drop it will be worse.
Then the attitude of the mods here, on top of the one Dev that basically posted "suck it up" has further pushed people away. It's like they want to push people away. So, if anyone associated with this game is still reading this, I implore you, for the game I love and hold very dear, please do something to mitigate the changes you are gonna do, especially since our feedback doesn't mean anything to you, as asking for it was just a ruse to make us feel like we had an opinion in the first place.
I have finally reached the point where i have nothing to say any more. I think we covered all.
From the problems this will bring. To consequences of lowering the stats of our characters while expecting from us to farm TONG, to get our stats to where they have been before the change.
We explained reasons, feelings, and over all covered every little bit of this change , as we , the players, see it.
Unfortunately we are not loud enough, or maybe we are too mean, or for some other reasons , devs decided to ignore this thread totally.
So ... what is the attack plan now ?
I firmly believe all of this changes lumped together, is going to just cause pain and grief to players.
Also i am not paying for it. I payed enough so i am going to take of my legendary gear off, all of the ranks 12 are going off i am getting ranks 5s and 6s and runing leveling dungeons with other noobs for the bonus AD. That is what i am going to do. New content ? No thank you. New dungeons ? No thank you. TONG ? Are you freaking kidding me ? No thank you.
1. It will buy them time and once 2 is fixed will place people closer to where they should be. With the changes only the top of the top most geared groups will reach what any common player can now and that's closer to acceptable. 2. They are aware, they have said this multiple times but it isn't as simple a fix as people think it is. That is an issue that they need time to work out, if they get it wrong they don't ruin an item, they ruin actual classes, you know, those things you play as? 3. No. No they weren't. If they were we wouldn't be having this discussion. T9G can be run by 14k groups with no companions summoned if they want the full experience or with Augments to make it a simple run. As they get Legendary companions this becomes even easier. 4. Your important stats should be on your character at all times, like ArPen for example. Relegate the extras to your buffs/bondings. It's simple common sense which people seem to lack in spades. So the average player has grinded and geared 3 maybe 4 full characters? That's cute, I'm at 113, 100 of which are between 16-17k. Funny how I have no problems with this, wonder why? 5. It would be great if Devs. could wave a magic wand and fix all problems but that's not how reality works. Sometimes data from a different, occasionally seemingly unrelated change is necessary before other changes can even be considered or put into effect. NW is an MMO where in fact everyone gets to test out the changes, first some on PC who are willing or able to make use of the Preview shard, the PC in general gets to be a test region then it comes to console with refinements as necessary. This can be seen positively or negatively but it's life, how things work and yes, even business.
Some MMO Devs. when dealing with an issue like this will shut the servers down completely, up to weeks if necessary to work out changes, some won't consult the community at all.
Whether or not you believe they are qualified, it remains that they are the ones who built the game and that by default makes them more qualified than you, or me or that guy over there.
So just wait and see how the changes work. Maybe things will be better, maybe they'll be worse.
People acting like children doesn't help matters.
1
bluebubbl3sMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 121Arc User
i am really sad about all of this. because the end result will be that the devs will do whatever they want and the players will have to put up or quit.
i dont care about the bis players complaining that their paingiver numbers arent going to look impressive, i dont even care about not being able to farm the new dungeon, and i dont care about the amount of money i have apparently wasted by supporting a game that doesnt support its players... i care about my guild, my alliance and the community.
what the devs seem to fail to understand, is that when they make changes like this, that HAMSTER people off, they stop playing. now it obviously isnt affecting thier hip pockets enough, cause they keep doing it, but they are decimating the player base that has been around for a long time.
i am sick and tired of good people, people i have come to know, and enjoy thier company, leaving the game cause of things like this. i hate the effect it has on the player community and the fact that friends leave for greener pastures and those of us who stay, seem to do so for no reward. the game doesnt reward us, and the loss of good characters and good guildies, and good people in general is not a reward at all.
and that, to me is the big factor here. all the technical stats stuff aside, the money aside, its the people that i miss, and i wish that the devs cared about that as much as i did. or even half as much.
At this stage in the topic I think it's safe to assume that (as usual) Developer silence can be interpreted as:
we are going ahead regardless of the feedback
So there's no point in continuing the debate. There is only one factor they will consider and that is income so please vote for/against with your wallets.
They are obviously assuming that most players will vent, some will leave but the majority will suck it up and continue. It is one thing to continue but it is another to believe that your real cash is spent in a reliable investment.
I for one will probably continue until 12b lands on console. Fortunately for me, by that point I will be engaged elsewhere and will have no time for the game regardless. I may log in and doodle around a little, but it will no longer take up significant chunks of my time.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
> darthtzarr said: As implemented on preview, it seems to not exactly be cooldown=duration like stated in the above dev post. It is, but there is a new mechanic at play. When bondings proc it gives a few seconds (or attacks) where the companion is allowed to proc bondings repeatedly for 3-8 seconds (about 3 attacks). This should remove some of that headache compared to a straight cooldown=duration, but is still obviously worse than the live version.
> @dupeks said: > How interesting, thank you for sharing. > > @noworries#8859 Can we get an official statement on the intended proc behavior for the new and improved bondings? In general, having the stats "snapshotted" roughly every 15 seconds is a confusing mechanic. Is it intended to stay this way? Are there concerns with restoring the behavior that allowed bonding stones to be refreshed before their duration elapses?
Could we get a word on current preview bonding proc and refresh behaviors please?
0
santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
edited September 2017
It was clear to me, about 16 months ago when they buffed bondings (everyone expected the nerf back then), that it was a ploy to get everyone to pay for new companions, runes, etc. I predicted they would be nerfed in the future--and here it is. I can think of only one answer to it.
Did I buy bondings at the time?--yes, there really wasn't a choice to remain competitive. They had created the new meta.
4
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited September 2017
I've figured this out.
To help people to progress I've implemented the Janne way of power progress. Each participant removes all their gear, now you are weak, to progress, you send me SMOP, and put your gear back on. Now you feel the progress, the improvement. And all that for just an SMOP.
Repeat daily. You are welcome !
MMOs are all about progress.
15
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
again.. its not they are nerfing them, its not about adjustments, its not about making augments valid or not.. its not about power creep..
ITS simply to me , personally, them removing power, and reselling it.. its a no go.. its a big no go..
would it be ok, after 1 year.. sure, thats fine.. but to do it at the same time.. wowzers.. the sheer audacity.
To the limited few of you who take the ignorant opinion that people who are upset about this bonding nerf are simply whining at lost stats, you are literally out of touch with the situation and couldn't be more so. The vast bulk of the problem people have is not the flat reduction of stats, it is the fact that you can repurchase the exact same stats (actually slightly beyond what we have now) taken away simply by upgrading (bonding stones, enchantments, additional legendary companions) what you currently have which is a primary revenue stream for Cryptic. Bonding stones will still be the clear BiS and there will be no additional variation between runestones from this, you will simply have to invest time or (as they're literally banking on) money to recover what was taken away. Is this not utterly simple? If the nerf was simply from 285% down to 195% and couldn't conveniently be made up for via the new enchantment ranks (conveniently falling within 2% overall stats from what is currently supposedly overpowered) it might be annoying to some, but it wouldn't seem fraudulent.
Please wake up and understand people's motivation before ignorantly criticizing something you apparently can't grasp.
It would be great to get some dev feedback here. Weekend is almost upon us. Given that players are going to lose stats - might I suggest that a solution to this is to improve the stats overall of players? I would strongly prefer to improve my toon rather than my companion - so as you are introducing higher level enchantments and changing things around, why not have all enchantments give slightly more. Sure - you will need to check whether this messes with balance, but if things are too easy you can alwasy make them harder. And I doubt that will be an issue in TONG.
I have loathed bondings (and didn´t get any) for a long time because back then there was not A SINGLE PIECE OF CONTENT that would have justified the kind of power they imparted. And now that you actually have introduced content that utilizes that kind of power potential...NOW you nerf them. It´s the absurdity that really haunts me. And as you said - it´s not about power creep. This "bringing them more in-line with other items" however isn´t really such a valuable gain (why? How? To whom?) - especially not for players when considering the high adjustment costs they will pay. The latest content like msp or tong is fun and players want to get there...but if you set the bar too high and make them run lame old content (and even leveling dungeons now...-.-) forever before they can finally get there (before that content is lame and old, too) too many might give up and say "whatever"...
It remains to been seen if these changes are game breaking. What they are is "confidence in paying these guys any money" breaking. I will be investing my holiday gaming budget elsewhere. It is a shame because NW was the game I wanted to invest in this year.
"Whether or not you believe they are qualified, it remains that they are the ones who built the game and that by default makes them more qualified than you, or me or that guy over there."
Actually no, these are not the devs that built the game. Those devs are long gone. Even the lead dev who was lead before was gone while a bunch of content and most of the current players came about. Many of the long time customers of this game, lie the many who have posted of their playing (and paying) since beta have more of an idea of the long term affects than these devs seem to through their actions and postings.
Another thing that most MMOs do... Go out of business. It is not necessary to follow a path whose main affect is to anger the customer base. That benefits no one, even those who hang on and still pay because of some strange sense of loyalty or because this is the only game they know.
Tbh. I think many people have finished the chult stuff apart from maybe the last boon. There's not much to do really except daily AD runs. That's probably why things are slow.
Can you (@devs) at least make companion gear slots universal (like mount insignias) to mitigate de loss of stats for most people? Everyone is tired of endless grind followed by some nerf bs. I have 4 fierce companion gear +4 (belt x3, seriously) and only one is useful for my companion, which isn't even the one i wanted to use. I'm over 300 fleece, so setting foot in the only skirmish that drops this gear, which is so boring, is not an option anymore. Can't trade/sell, can't change with some npc for the ones i need, this is nonsense. For once in a while, do something for us, your customers that pay your salary, change this ridiculous system.
Comments
Maybe we'll see a few more Epic Dungeons include RP in chests or more items drops from bosses? We know Bonus RP weekends will expand Refinement rewards during the event from Campaigns, Leadership or the odd Skirmish or Trial that reward them today. The same will likely be true from SoMi treasures awarding possibly twice as much which if you get a Brilliant Diamond is fairly significant. We may also see changes to leadership as well.
Still the whole idea behind R14 is not necessarily to get there overnight; but give something for players to continue to grow their characters over the next 2-4 years. They've already said some dungeons may need to be rebalanced and are likely already looking into it.
Develop new dungeons that now work with the changes in stats. That way people will have to progress to do them. I think the issue is people losing their stats and being forced to do stuff they've done a thousand times and have moved on from because now they can't do what they were doing, and forget about even trying new stuff. That's where a lot of my issues come into play. It's not even that it's a blatant cash grab, companies need money. Do I feel they could have done something different to earn money? Well, yeah, of course. Then again, it's not necessarily the devs that want these changes, it's the idiots in charge that command the devs to do it.
I think the players are expressing their feelings here because they are passionate about this game. It's like being in love with someone, only to find out they are stealing from you. That passion goes from one end of the spectrum to the other. The moderators aren't helping and the devs aren't helping. What they need is professional customer service type people to mediate these forums during this time, be more transparent.
I seriously do not want to quit this game, I love it. I've invested a lot of time and money into it. I do feel this could have been handled better, and hopefully they will still tweak the changes before they go live. Just let me continue to do the content I've worked hard to do (modify that content to the same scale the players will be after the change), let me work up to running new content (then I have no issue putting time and money into my progression), and work on not only new and growing content, but fixes to bugs that have been around for a long time instead of doing several massive changes at once that are gonna HAMSTER a lot of people off. Then I would be content, maybe not happy, but able to deal with it enough that I will still continue to invest as I have to grow my character.
You have to have a massive blindspot to fail to recognise that reality.
If they are not WAI then you should not be able to recover the stats through spending cash (or AD).
> @ragequittingdc#8599
>
> You touched the most important point, if these runestones exist and have the same rank of bondings, why can i not use them? Are they here just to pass the butter?
>
> The other content is done easily without bondings because it's much easier, lostmauth for example has like....20million HP maybe, and Storvard 1 billion or more....
>
> It's a bit about "inverse power creep", if you notice the expected performance/price ratio has increased a lot with this update, compare the price of a future R12 to the price of a current R10 that will both be at ration of +/- 1,4 to the top enchantment.
> My FBI runs last 2 hours while there are people running it in 11 minutes, and why? because i get put into a random group that thinks the fact that their non bonding runestones are giving them enough IL to queue are good for the content, with this rework the acessibillity of new player to content more close to endgame has increased tremendously, power creepingis not fixed, but everyone will be a little bit closer to it, in fact i think from now on all runs will be much more pleasurable.
>
> Would you be totally fine if the devs picked up eldritch and made it grant 75% stats and other runestones 4200 and raise their price to bondings price? So the amount of players running endgame would be even less and instead of a 2 hours run i would have no run at all.
> Or would you rather that they were increased in stats without any prices rework? Then a lot of people would cry " mine where more expensive".
it's simple, bondings were reworked with the intention of being the go to runestones for the release of tier 3 content, up until this announcement they were considered WAI.
I couldn't disagree more with that statement though, that the tier 1/2 dungeons are simply just too easy to require bondings. the most important, IMO, part of the bondings is to give the dps enough of a boost to bring down the various different creatures and bosses in ample time before the rest of the group can't keep up with the mechanics, and they, the mechanics, all are unique despite this being a common theme within all the dungeons/trials.
maybe you have forgotten what it's like to pug or even premade valindra as an 8k-9k toon and not be able to break all the coffins leading to a steady build up of adds that you can't kill fast enough, or struggle to get away from the wraiths because you still have a weak stamina pool from lack of campaign boons. sure, the same dungeon is easily done with an 11k group, because they've done it so many times and have rank 4 on all their at wills/encounters/passives, most of the campaign boons and some guild boons.
with the nerf, the amount of dps needed in tier 3 doesn't change, as there has been no mention of a rework of the content. so what makes you think bumping other runestones to a point that's still weaker than even the nerfed bondings going to do, except bring even more of the same. people that disliked bondings are going to be over-joyed until they realize, they just blacklisted themselves from tier 3 even more so, unless they are these characters; tanks that build more balanced(def/off build), with the nerf they'll have to buy a respec coin probably and switch a few enchants, but they'll still be in high demand and fully capable. secondly dc's, as was already mentioned, their powershare will still be off the charts with the nerf intact, and so, they will remain in high demand and fully capable of tier 3.
the end result, more 2 dc AC/DO OP GF and insert hdps groups. so much more than now because everybody does less dps so full buffs/debuffs are seen even more as a "must have". the only change there will be is an increase in ilvl req. to join those groups. since other runestones were left out of the equation when developing tier 3 content, the most logical solution IMO, is to now buff them in some way or another, without the bonding nerf, and to test it on the preview server to gauge the viability and make adjustments if needed.
This has become the norm for this company unfortunately. They are unscrupulous when it comes to these adjustments. Most people that have been around a while know it, they are not to be trusted and the only hope is to try to mitigate their misguided efforts to fill the company coffers. They always present us with a pile of garbage and a kick in the balls carefully word-smithed, fully knowing the imminent backlash. They throw us a bone and tell us "ok, we won't kick you in the nuts, enjoy your garbage, stop at the zen shop on your way out".
I don't believe for one second that this is not about selling back stolen progression. If it were about balance, they would have scripted them all over to 14 when the patch drops and said "sorry, they are the same as before, everything else is rising to meet them". It's incredibly frustrating to see a game with a great LP and combat managed so poorly. I believe you are correct, of course they will not back down on this decision, they invested resources in pushing it to this point and likely have built in "acceptable player losses" which is certain to come. The extent of that gamble is yet to be seen, they may come out ok or lose big, then we'll all go down with a dead MMO, which I sincerely do not want to see. I also believe you're correct that this kind of decision comes from higher up the food chain...boss isn't always right but they're always the boss. Where is their lead dev during this uproar? Have we heard anything from him? Is he hiding in his office? If I led my workgroup like that I'd be surprised if they showed up for work the following Monday.
My wife plays a SW, and is a bit lower. She won't feel the bonding nerf as bad, but maybe the owlbear cub nerf. We just bought her best friend a ps4 so she can play NW with my wife, and seeing how she isn't level 70 yet, she won't feel the nerf at all. I'm the one affected. How does that make me want to continue playing.
If they tweaked the current dungeons on console to go along with this change, I am fine. Yet I don't want to have to spend millions of ad to run content I already do. I have mostly rank 10-11 enchants but rank 12 bondings, so it will take me a while to run content I already do as well as new content. I'm not going to sink money up into that. If it was just new content, sure. But not existing. And the timing..... Poorly planned. Too many good games that will catch other people's attention are coming out. People will leave. I will have trouble finding groups. I already am having trouble lately finding groups, yet when these changes drop it will be worse.
Then the attitude of the mods here, on top of the one Dev that basically posted "suck it up" has further pushed people away. It's like they want to push people away. So, if anyone associated with this game is still reading this, I implore you, for the game I love and hold very dear, please do something to mitigate the changes you are gonna do, especially since our feedback doesn't mean anything to you, as asking for it was just a ruse to make us feel like we had an opinion in the first place.
I think we covered all.
From the problems this will bring.
To consequences of lowering the stats of our characters while expecting from us to farm TONG, to get our stats to where they have been before the change.
We explained reasons, feelings, and over all covered every little bit of this change , as we , the players, see it.
Unfortunately we are not loud enough, or maybe we are too mean, or for some other reasons , devs decided to ignore this thread totally.
So ... what is the attack plan now ?
I firmly believe all of this changes lumped together, is going to just cause pain and grief to players.
Also i am not paying for it.
I payed enough so i am going to take of my legendary gear off, all of the ranks 12 are going off i am getting ranks 5s and 6s and runing leveling dungeons with other noobs for the bonus AD.
That is what i am going to do.
New content ? No thank you.
New dungeons ? No thank you.
TONG ? Are you freaking kidding me ? No thank you.
2. They are aware, they have said this multiple times but it isn't as simple a fix as people think it is. That is an issue that they need time to work out, if they get it wrong they don't ruin an item, they ruin actual classes, you know, those things you play as?
3. No. No they weren't. If they were we wouldn't be having this discussion. T9G can be run by 14k groups with no companions summoned if they want the full experience or with Augments to make it a simple run. As they get Legendary companions this becomes even easier.
4. Your important stats should be on your character at all times, like ArPen for example. Relegate the extras to your buffs/bondings. It's simple common sense which people seem to lack in spades. So the average player has grinded and geared 3 maybe 4 full characters? That's cute, I'm at 113, 100 of which are between 16-17k. Funny how I have no problems with this, wonder why?
5. It would be great if Devs. could wave a magic wand and fix all problems but that's not how reality works. Sometimes data from a different, occasionally seemingly unrelated change is necessary before other changes can even be considered or put into effect. NW is an MMO where in fact everyone gets to test out the changes, first some on PC who are willing or able to make use of the Preview shard, the PC in general gets to be a test region then it comes to console with refinements as necessary. This can be seen positively or negatively but it's life, how things work and yes, even business.
Some MMO Devs. when dealing with an issue like this will shut the servers down completely, up to weeks if necessary to work out changes, some won't consult the community at all.
Whether or not you believe they are qualified, it remains that they are the ones who built the game and that by default makes them more qualified than you, or me or that guy over there.
So just wait and see how the changes work. Maybe things will be better, maybe they'll be worse.
People acting like children doesn't help matters.
i dont care about the bis players complaining that their paingiver numbers arent going to look impressive, i dont even care about not being able to farm the new dungeon, and i dont care about the amount of money i have apparently wasted by supporting a game that doesnt support its players... i care about my guild, my alliance and the community.
what the devs seem to fail to understand, is that when they make changes like this, that HAMSTER people off, they stop playing. now it obviously isnt affecting thier hip pockets enough, cause they keep doing it, but they are decimating the player base that has been around for a long time.
i am sick and tired of good people, people i have come to know, and enjoy thier company, leaving the game cause of things like this. i hate the effect it has on the player community and the fact that friends leave for greener pastures and those of us who stay, seem to do so for no reward. the game doesnt reward us, and the loss of good characters and good guildies, and good people in general is not a reward at all.
and that, to me is the big factor here. all the technical stats stuff aside, the money aside, its the people that i miss, and i wish that the devs cared about that as much as i did. or even half as much.
Guild Leader - Valaurakari Ascension
VA is the creator and proud member of The Round Table Alliance
we are going ahead regardless of the feedback
So there's no point in continuing the debate. There is only one factor they will consider and that is income so please vote for/against with your wallets.
They are obviously assuming that most players will vent, some will leave but the majority will suck it up and continue. It is one thing to continue but it is another to believe that your real cash is spent in a reliable investment.
I for one will probably continue until 12b lands on console. Fortunately for me, by that point I will be engaged elsewhere and will have no time for the game regardless. I may log in and doodle around a little, but it will no longer take up significant chunks of my time.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
As implemented on preview, it seems to not exactly be cooldown=duration like stated in the above dev post. It is, but there is a new mechanic at play. When bondings proc it gives a few seconds (or attacks) where the companion is allowed to proc bondings repeatedly for 3-8 seconds (about 3 attacks). This should remove some of that headache compared to a straight cooldown=duration, but is still obviously worse than the live version.
> @dupeks said:
> How interesting, thank you for sharing.
>
> @noworries#8859 Can we get an official statement on the intended proc behavior for the new and improved bondings? In general, having the stats "snapshotted" roughly every 15 seconds is a confusing mechanic. Is it intended to stay this way? Are there concerns with restoring the behavior that allowed bonding stones to be refreshed before their duration elapses?
Could we get a word on current preview bonding proc and refresh behaviors please?
Did I buy bondings at the time?--yes, there really wasn't a choice to remain competitive. They had created the new meta.
To help people to progress I've implemented the Janne way of power progress.
Each participant removes all their gear, now you are weak, to progress, you send me SMOP, and put your gear back on.
Now you feel the progress, the improvement. And all that for just an SMOP.
Repeat daily. You are welcome !
MMOs are all about progress.
ITS simply to me , personally, them removing power, and reselling it.. its a no go.. its a big no go..
would it be ok, after 1 year.. sure, thats fine.. but to do it at the same time.. wowzers.. the sheer audacity.
Please wake up and understand people's motivation before ignorantly criticizing something you apparently can't grasp.
Given that players are going to lose stats - might I suggest that a solution to this is to improve the stats overall of players? I would strongly prefer to improve my toon rather than my companion - so as you are introducing higher level enchantments and changing things around, why not have all enchantments give slightly more. Sure - you will need to check whether this messes with balance, but if things are too easy you can alwasy make them harder. And I doubt that will be an issue in TONG.
The latest content like msp or tong is fun and players want to get there...but if you set the bar too high and make them run lame old content (and even leveling dungeons now...-.-) forever before they can finally get there (before that content is lame and old, too) too many might give up and say "whatever"...
It remains to been seen if these changes are game breaking. What they are is "confidence in paying these guys any money" breaking. I will be investing my holiday gaming budget elsewhere. It is a shame because NW was the game I wanted to invest in this year.
The problem was with bonding that it only allowed 1 type of gameplay to exist.
The problem is with the change is that it only allows 1 type of gameplay to exist.
If it's not a cash-grab, please work on the problem. If it is, get eaten by the hamster army.
Actually no, these are not the devs that built the game. Those devs are long gone. Even the lead dev who was lead before was gone while a bunch of content and most of the current players came about. Many of the long time customers of this game, lie the many who have posted of their playing (and paying) since beta have more of an idea of the long term affects than these devs seem to through their actions and postings.
Another thing that most MMOs do... Go out of business.
It is not necessary to follow a path whose main affect is to anger the customer base. That benefits no one, even those who hang on and still pay because of some strange sense of loyalty or because this is the only game they know.
> Don't quit the game. Just quit giving them money.
>
If you stay, you'll spend, and you know it
That and massive depression ofc.