"However, if you queue with a full party of 5, the queue you arrive at will be truly random. "
So you CAN queue with 5 people? Then I don't see what's the big problem. Its funny that doomsayers are so loud that you can't see the essential of things...
I can go with my friend to random dungeons for more reward. Even if its fbi.
Lots of people in our guild Never makes a party. Only wants to be carried. This random queue is good for them too!
No, it's not a problem, the problem is when you realise the 5 man team you have formed cannot complete FBI/ MSP or TONG if it pops. Do you say to your friends/guildies, sorry but we need such and such player because he has Longstriders. Do you sideline your own friends because you know they will cause a high level run to fail. Or do you take a chance and take the 30 minute penalty.
If they add a 5 man Abandon Vote that does not incur a 30 minute penalty, noone's going to pug at all unless they are forced to and run the risk of a 30 minute penalty. They will form a 5 man team with the friends they want to play with, get MSP and use the Abandon Vote to immediately queue for something easier.
At best Cryptic is deflecting blame and responisbility for the current systems failings on the players. If they implement a Vote to Abandon Dungeon system, this will be a colossal waste of money, resources and manpower they could at least use to begin investing in the real issues.
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lukejones77Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
Hahaha.
The biggest problem facing the game now is that DEVs finally brought in challenging content, but didn't fix the class balance issues. Now, we have classes with real difficulty getting into challenging runs, because the imbalances are resulting in them being excluded, and falling even further behind.
What to do??? Fix the class balance problems, or find a way to get the strong classes to queue up with the weak ones?
Wait a minute.... what if we created a reward for people to join "random queues"?
1
jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
The biggest problem facing the game now is that DEVs finally brought in challenging content, but didn't fix the class balance issues. Now, we have classes with real difficulty getting into challenging runs, because the imbalances are resulting in them being excluded, and falling even further behind.
What to do??? Fix the class balance problems, or find a way to get the strong classes to queue up with the weak ones?
Wait a minute.... what if we created a reward for people to join "random queues"?
I'm guessing we'll have complete silence until next week now.
Devs, seriously, stop trying to manipulate the players.
If you want people to do something, offer them incentives, not restrictions.
Telling them... 'you won't get paid unless you: a. play with non-friends b. queue for all dungeons, not just your favorites c. don't quit regardless of circumstances d. complete all content or buy unlock packs (on every character)
...is outrageously condescending and an attempt at a cheap fix to deeper problems, which you either ignore or deem too expensive to correct properly.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
I simply love this idea if it was for the obtaining of bonus AD on top of existing AD that is earnt, but since this is not the case, then I see many problems
1. No incentive for guild members to run the daily dungeons for the guild to advance their stronghold except for the love of their guild because you can't pick the required daily dungeon and earn you normal AD at the same time. Loss for the guild as well as the player. 2. Sometimes real life requires you to leave a dungeon (beside bad players etc) and being penalised for doing this when this is the only source of your AD income and your playing time is limited just does not work for many of us. 3. As one of the ranked guild officers, I spend a lot of time helping new players to do dungeons to earn their AD and to gear up and teach them the mechanics, but this is done with appropriateness choice of dungeon. Being given a random dungeon just makes it complicated. For this reason, taking away the normal earning AD from regular queue systems is a bad idea. 4. Will this new random queue system assist new players?
I have supported this game and my guildies for over 4 years, taken the closing of the gateway, the removal of AD leadership, the nerf of the bondings so I beg to know how am I going to find the AD to level enchantments to beyond 10 plus...with this new earning AD system. Where is the promised return of missing dungeons from Mod 6 or are they lost forever?
Please reconsider this idea, don't destroy my excitement of a new skirmish that is coming.
So they have stated a goal that they are really trying to solve. Make queues pop for all content fast. You can leave things as is and add your RNG as an additional option without losing your customers. To make your customers happier and more loyal to make queues pop faster a 2 fold approach can be done that is easy to do.
You remove the secret bait and switch nerf to RNG you did after keygate. Put it back to what it was that first week when everyone was having fun.
The second fold is to make the special 450 drops in each dungeon like Deepknights have a 50% drop rate and a random component on the item. Take some lessons from other games people farm like Borderlands and Diablo. The deepknight example would be Hp 50000-70000 and power 1500-2000. People will repeat all the dungeons if there are rewards and if they can make numbers higher. People will farm to get that last digit of power and if they are getting the item they are seeking and keep the queues full.
To be honest you guys broke the queue system when you forgot the very lesson you learned during keygate which is rewards are what keep people playing and queueing.
Firstly let me say I welcome the idea of random queues. I used to play FF14 that had this in place and other mechanics like needed class bonus etc. which was a huge boon for new players who needed to catch up.
With that said, I think your planned implementation of random queues will have the COMPLETE OPPOSITE EFFECT of helping newer players which you say is your intent, and here is why:
I remember that as a lowbie, getting my daily bonus for dungeons and skirmishes made for a large source of my AD income. New players will now be denied this as they don't have the IL to meet the requirements for epic dungeons queues (11k IL!!). You say that one of the goals is to break the monatomy of players going for the same dung/skirmish over and over again... but you are now going to force new players to repeat the same go to dung/skirm they are eligible for more times to make the same AD they would before in your new system.
Random dungs queues should be broken down to their respective tiers: T1 queues for ELOL/VT/MC, T2 for ETOS/ECC/EGWF/CN, T3 for FBI/MSP/TONG. I know you say that you have your system in place to prevent abuse, but your system will do more harm than good in leaving lower players out in the cold.
Secondly not only is this plan bad for new players, it is also discouraging for end-game players. The main rule here is that NOBODY WANTS TO SPEND 1 HOUR+ to complete a single dungeon. 1 hour is the most playtime someone might have in a single night, and here are the reasons why it relates to your plan:
The current meta does not support your dungeon q requirements of 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 DPS. Go into any LFG channel and you will see that for any T3 dung people are looking for mostly support classes and 1, maybe 2 DPS at best. These people are not speedrunners, rather they are just practical players that know that if they want any chance of completing a T3 dung within a hours time with RANDOM people, this is the setup they need.
Random PUGs still have a high failure rate running T3s. Your current incentive of 5k AD are peanuts when the player has to weigh up the stress and time lost helping a bad PUG spend 1hour+ in one of these with no guarantee they can get the end chest before the group abandons. Please consider this: You have just completed your stressful day of helping to develop and improve NW, and now just want to relax by levelling up on your favourite game. Do you do this by spending 10-15 on a task whose rewards are practically guaranteed in value (5k salvage from ESOT), or do you spend the next 1-2 hours of your life in a high stress environment with unknown success, and the reward you get for putting up with it is exactly the same payout value (5k random q bonus for doing MSP).
Also the random q bonus should absolutely go on top of the the pre-existing daily AD bonus. Raising the AD cap means little to me as an end-game player as this bonus amounts to a small part of my income. I would rather you have both bonuses but keep the low AD cap if necessary, as it means helping the new players catch up more.
I wonder how the leaver penalty wil interact with the frequent game server disconnets. Usually a server disconnect in a PUG group will result in an automated removal from party. My best quess is that on days the game servers are cranky and disconnecting frequently PUGing will be even a bigger headache than normal as the disconnects hit players with the leaver penalty when they log back into the game a minute or so post disconnect.
I don't think Leaver Penalty is going to be the biggest issue. It's PUG mentality. Am certain, there is a feeling amongst staff and mods that sometimes we, as players and forum warriors, shoot ourselves in the foot sometimes. PUGs are going to prove this in a most spectactular fashion if this change goes live.
PUGs are not patient people (we all have the potential to be PUGs btw), if you random queue into a group where you or a PUG decides one person is a noob, slowing you down, or just needs to be taught a lesson, what is a PUG to do. Vote Kick. What do the worst PUGs do, spam the Vote Kick option.
Am pretty sure I cannot be the only person that has had my gameplay input totally freezing repeatedly because someone is abusing the Vote Kick option. I think this decreased significantly on the arrival of SH and then Alliances, or maybe it was something else. Knowing that PUGs will be PUGs if someone is getting between them and their loot, they will ruthlessly use the Vote Kick option when they determine someone is a risk to their reward.
A friend and I ran a private queue 2-man ELoL on preview. Both of us obtained 5100 RAD on completion, like normal. Whether this is intended or not, I don't know. There's 2 possibilities. Cryptic completely failed at communicating how the changes to queues actually work, and said the exact opposite of what they intended to say, or this is a mistake and it's going to be removed because Cryptic hates everyone, hates new players who don't meet the IL or campaign requirements for an entire random queue most of all, and doesn't care about the 100% negative response this entire debacle has wrought.
I wonder how this "role" garbage will interact with loadouts. Role in party is more a matter of build than class selection. Just about every class has builds that work for at least two roles that the devs acknoledge to exist (tank, dps, and heals) some have viable builds for more roles than that.
Moreover the devs do not appear to grasp that we do not have three roles in the game we have atleast five: dps, tank, buff, debuff, and control. I am not sure if we should even count healing as a role anymore because its not really needed with lifesteal and certain companions.
On a healing sidenote the best healing class in the game is often a templock, but under the role system being espoused by the devs templocks would be considered dps.
On another side note: Whats to stop a paladin from entering a dungeon and as a healadin and counting as the healer and then switching to tankadin load out or entering as a tankadin and switching to a healadin loadout. In this senerio we will end up with two tanks or two healers something the devs dont want for some poorly explained reason.
Not entirely true from how I understand it, it seems to be the 2xDC thing they dislike, Pally Auras, are really limited to Courage and Wisdom, those don't stack. I don't know DC at all but am guessing due the current meta there is a distinct advantage to having two of them
Random queues make it harder for new players to catch up. Old and geared players can just run trough the dungeons the same way they do now, just in a public party instead of private.
For newer players though, they wont be able to get their bonus for a while until they unlock campaigns, and after they do, they still will be missing it a couple times a week, when they hit FBI or MSP or even CN.
Additionally, we know the servers and connections etc arent perfect. People sometimes disconnect. With private queues, you can wait for your friend who got disconnected to come back so he gets the reward he helped run the dungeon for. Public queues bring in the extra frustration so when someone disconnects, they will be replaced by some random.
I dare you, I DOUBLE DARE YOU, make an average player party, go into Tomb of the Nine Gods, and record it. By average I mean like most of those who will try (rank 7-9 enchantments, in best case r11 bonding, maybe not all artifacts on mythics, new blue gear because of IL, y'know), add them some boons so they'll be just above 12k IL.
Now try to run tong with 3 average dps, average dc, and average tank (preferably a Guardian fighter), and let's see how much time you'll need to finish it. Even with godmode, I seriously doubt it will take you less than 1-1,5 hours... Now, that leaver penalty of 30 minutes doesn't seem so bad.. Heck, I'd rather go with premade team in private queue and do it twice in that (at least an) hour that I'd be in otherwise, and I'll get at least 4 salvageable items so IDC about that "pathetic" 5k I'd get for losing my nerves by running for Hero's accord with a team that would take even msp 45+min.
Other than what I told up there, the rest seems good.. maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to remove leavers penalty if the run is lasting 50% longer than what you've put in description. (Imagine getting in party with people who don't know what they're doing, so you end up being in Lair of Lostmauth over an hour - might sound like an dumb example, but I've played with a couple of "pugs" 11k+ that often got lost in there).
Also, I don't agree with the AD thingy: there are days when I (and other players, I believe) don't have a lot of time, so I just run 2 quick dungeons and 2 quick skirmishes, to get daily AD... but now I'll have to sacrifice a child and whole herd of goats, just so I wouldn't get queued to MSP/FBI and Throne/Prophecy.. You could at least give a bit lesser AD rewards than for random queue...
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
I dare you, I DOUBLE DARE YOU, make an average player party, go into Tomb of the Nine Gods, and record it. By average I mean like most of those who will try (rank 7-9 enchantments, in best case r11 bonding, maybe not all artifacts on mythics, new blue gear because of IL, y'know), add them some boons so they'll be just above 12k IL.
Now try to run tong with 3 average dps, average dc, and average tank (preferably a Guardian fighter), and let's see how much time you'll need to finish it. Even with godmode, I seriously doubt it will take you less than 1-1,5 hours... Now, that leaver penalty of 30 minutes doesn't seem so bad.. Heck, I'd rather go with premade team in private queue and do it twice in that (at least an) hour that I'd be in otherwise, and I'll get at least 4 salvageable items so IDC about that "pathetic" 5k I'd get for losing my nerves by running for Hero's accord with a team that would take even msp 45+min.
Other than what I told up there, the rest seems good.. maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to remove leavers penalty if the run is lasting 50% longer than what you've put in description. (Imagine getting in party with people who don't know what they're doing, so you end up being in Lair of Lostmauth over an hour - might sound like an dumb example, but I've played with a couple of "pugs" 11k+ that often got lost in there).
Also, I don't agree with the AD thingy: there are days when I (and other players, I believe) don't have a lot of time, so I just run 2 quick dungeons and 2 quick skirmishes, to get daily AD... but now I'll have to sacrifice a child and whole herd of goats, just so I wouldn't get queued to MSP/FBI and Throne/Prophecy.. You could at least give a bit lesser AD rewards than for random queue...
Just double dare him to do it, and to do it until he succeeds.
EDIT: Am not interested in the slightest in what a spread sheet says will work, do it, record it, tell us when you succeed whether it is something you would enjoy doing every day.
I'm not even mad and thats a probem I'm too used to this kind of "clever" changes that come out, so I will just leave my ideas and hope (who I'm kidding you even make fun of that with "experience over hope" tittle) that somebody picks them up.
-If this is for bots that much likely leech leveling dungeons, remove ad rewards from them. (Is sad i know but you can get some ad from weeklies still)
-If you still want to pull this through i suggest all bosses should drop gear so we have a guarated ad income and not just seals and "chances". That and/or make so that by queue for random boost your chance to get an artifact/companion/mount from end chest.
-Remove the incentive of playing support classes, the least we need is people that don't understand how their own class works
-Make it so those who haven't unlock all dungeons can random queue ignoring the unlocked dungeons on the list.
That or make specific rewards for each dungeon like each dungeon dropping an specific artifact/mount/companion but thats too complicated for you i know
ndisclosed reason for doing it this way is an anti-botting strategy. I don't know which-all content has bots, but I'd say it's a pretty effective way of killing their ability to leech runs.
I never seen bots at all in queues, and I have run countless queues in the game. Only bots I ever see are the ones in zone with their silly non-sense buying text spamming. And even that I do not really see anymore at all in the game when lazying around in PE. Now what I see wrong is the quitting penalty, I mean let's face it - sometimes you lose a member in the team that was a low item level only to get an even lower item level player in their place.
That is not the worse case though, worse case is when you keep getting low item level players in your group, for example, at Epic Grey Wolf Den boss fight and being stuck in there for over 5 hours because your team doesn't have the DPS to get it done. So now that everyone will know they will be penalized if they were to leave instead of trying to get the job done, you will instead be forced to stay and keep failing and failing and failing... Before you know it, you could of been done with 6 other epic dungeons by the time you got out of just that one epic dungeon. So yeah, I do not think leaving a queue should be penalized, the only time people even leave a team is when they know the job can't be done or will take far too long. People don't just enter queues to leave it so adding this makes no sense.
Just adding to the countless posts already made about this being a very bad idea in its current form. Make these changes be an addition to the current system, not a replacement of it. I thought the bonding nerf was bad, but it pales in comparison to this pile of garbage.
Be funny of this was a false flag to divert attention from bondings.
Sorry, have my tinfoil hat on this week.
Worst case scenario, they're running out of money. This is a distinct possibility because pvp is dead pretty much, and pvp'ers were always the biggest spenders. Couple that with the fact that most of the top end pve whales have everything, and have very little left to spend their money on, I'm not a whale, and even I don't have any real goals left that would require dropping my credit card on my toon. The guilds that care are all GH20 and stable, so no spending there either.
Hence the rank 14s and the coalward sales etc.
To stop average players amassing free ad from daily dungeons and zaxxing it into zen, they get randomized, so you have to choose either running something you don't want for ad, or running something you do want.
If all this is the case I wish they'd just say "guys, we needs moneys, plz donate."
Question about quitter penalties. (I hate "leaver" and you can't make me use it. Get off my lawn.)
Are these going to be in place when the player/party gets matched into content they can't succeed at? I mean, does the system double punish you for failure?
Awww... now I want to camp out on Becky's lawn !
3
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
So Private queues are gone? dailiy rad income from 2 dungeon, 2 skirmish 2pvp matchs are going to be removed?
When I used to pvp we had the leavers penalty (I don't know if pvp still has it) and I'd disconnect fairly regularly. I became quite used to the unfairness of being banned from queuing for 30 mins for something that wasn't my fault.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
2
lordsilveroakMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 17Arc User
Takes a slow look around the room.
You all better start addressing these excellent questions we have asked.If not then you have lied to us again just like the coals in vip when you removed them.If you ask for our input and we easily do your job showing a poor result and playability then the result you get will NOT be what you're looking for.Do you think perhaps the real dollars we spent on our alts is less than what is spent by new players? I am not trying to be anything but helpful as we all are. We love this game do you? It is time to make a statement devs or your silence will make it for you. And I for one am listening. It's my choice to finnish content on my alts not yours. SilverOak Main Dc alt tr alt pal alt
> @joe123thewayward said: > I wonder how the leaver penalty wil interact with the frequent game server disconnets. Usually a server disconnect in a PUG group will result in an automated removal from party. My best quess is that on days the game servers are cranky and disconnecting frequently PUGing will be even a bigger headache than normal as the disconnects hit players with the leaver penalty when they log back into the game a minute or so post disconnect.
I'm getting discod every hour of playtime or so. You are basically sol in a pug it's almost always filled by the time u get back. What would bite is getting discod right as the boss was dying penalty and no chest or reward
> @myrinx said: > Im not really adding anything new, but want to add the to voices why there is still a chance to change the way this is implemented. > > I feel like this is a blow to guilds. Many of my guildmates are people that almost never run pug groups. They have had too many bad experiences with players being rude and abusive and joined a guild to escape that. They are here to enjoy themselves not to be forced to run with people that make their experience unpleasant. > I'm sorry new players and unguilded people are having trouble finding groups to run with but these changes aren't going to do anything to keep people from abusing other players when they cant complete their dungeon AND no one can quit without a penalty. We shouldn't have to choose between having fun and progressing. By putting AD behind the random queue, that's what we are faced with. (yes, i know we can still run the random queue with friends, but as people have already pointed out, that comes with its own complications and barriers) > > So what if we want to run Temple of the Spider 1 or 100 times in a day if that's the way we choose to spend our time? Especially since I run with guild/alliance only groups and, therefore, would not be benefiting random people anyway. We are capable of making our own random queues. We do lots of different dungeons to mix things up when we get bored. We dont need someone else checking the boxes for us. There are certain dungeons we stay away from because very few of our people are well geared enough, and those that are, find it a time-consuming pain and just not fun. (I'm looking at you MSP). > > They act like people were being forced to run ETOS before, and thats why they quit. The irony now is they really are forcing people to run ETOS. > > People have been crying for MORE choices...not someone making their choices from a list of the same overplayed content.
If you want 100 etos runs with your friends you still can just no bonus ad for the first 2 runs
I still think just adding a vote at the start of the q would solve it except for rare instances. I.e shift1 for etos shift 2 ecc. Also make random q by tier. Problem solved
Not entirely true from how I understand it, it seems to be the 2xDC thing they dislike, Pally Auras, are really limited to Courage and Wisdom, those don't stack. I don't know DC at all but am guessing due the current meta there is a distinct advantage to having two of them
Yes, several big advantages.
#1: Anoited Champions get Anoited Army and Blessing Of Battle, which share a massive amount of power #2: Divine Oracles get Terrifying Insight, a flat 20% damage boost to the entire party, and Prophecy Of Doom, a large enemy damage resist debuff. #3: Both clerics share Power (the AC is just better at it) and the power sharing from both DCs stacks. #4: Two DCs means you can have Empowered Break The Spirit *and* Empowered Forgemaster's Flame up both at once, for another 60% damage boost.
In somewhat unrelated Patch news: Dead Owlbear Cubs aren't much fun.
Encounter CritRate Hits IC/Hits
Dreadtheft 33% 24 5
BoVA 27% 11 4
Pillar of Power -- 16 8
So, now that you nerfed the one thing that made the SW viable by more than 50%, are you going to increase his damage by 50% to compensate? No one wants an SW endgame as it is - despite having moderate DPS, massive debuffs, and the best heals in the game - because heals don't matter in a game with epileptic healthbars, the debuffs are in no way obvious, and no endgame SW can compete with an endgame GWF/HR/TR for DPS. Knocking our damage (and thus our heals) by another 50%+ isn't going to help. For a lot of us, Infantile Compensation was making up ~70% of our damage.
Not really asking you undo it - it was kind of stupid to have all SW's rely on that one-pet mechanic, but you gotta compensate them somewhere else, or it's a dead class.
Also don't be thinking we didn't notice the Ninja Nerf you pulled on the Live server Thursday, when you tweaked the Stalwart Lion so that his Radiant Weapon damage no longer shares with the group!
*sigh* I dunno how you go about making these people understand the simple concept that carrot > stick:
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Not entirely true from how I understand it, it seems to be the 2xDC thing they dislike, Pally Auras, are really limited to Courage and Wisdom, those don't stack. I don't know DC at all but am guessing due the current meta there is a distinct advantage to having two of them
Yes, several big advantages.
#1: Anoited Champions get Anoited Army and Blessing Of Battle, which share a massive amount of power #2: Divine Oracles get Terrifying Insight, a flat 20% damage boost to the entire party, and Prophecy Of Doom, a large enemy damage resist debuff. #3: Both clerics share Power (the AC is just better at it) and the power sharing from both DCs stacks. #4: Two DCs means you can have Empowered Break The Spirit *and* Empowered Forgemaster's Flame up both at once, for another 60% damage boost.
Comments
If they add a 5 man Abandon Vote that does not incur a 30 minute penalty, noone's going to pug at all unless they are forced to and run the risk of a 30 minute penalty. They will form a 5 man team with the friends they want to play with, get MSP and use the Abandon Vote to immediately queue for something easier.
At best Cryptic is deflecting blame and responisbility for the current systems failings on the players. If they implement a Vote to Abandon Dungeon system, this will be a colossal waste of money, resources and manpower they could at least use to begin investing in the real issues.
The biggest problem facing the game now is that DEVs finally brought in challenging content, but didn't fix the class balance issues. Now, we have classes with real difficulty getting into challenging runs, because the imbalances are resulting in them being excluded, and falling even further behind.
What to do??? Fix the class balance problems, or find a way to get the strong classes to queue up with the weak ones?
Wait a minute.... what if we created a reward for people to join "random queues"?
This thread illustrates that problem perfectly:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1234144/disable-private-queue-on-engame-dungeons
Written by a very frustrated TR.
Devs, seriously, stop trying to manipulate the players.
If you want people to do something, offer them incentives, not restrictions.
Telling them... 'you won't get paid unless you:
a. play with non-friends
b. queue for all dungeons, not just your favorites
c. don't quit regardless of circumstances
d. complete all content or buy unlock packs (on every character)
...is outrageously condescending and an attempt at a cheap fix to deeper problems, which you either ignore or deem too expensive to correct properly.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
1. No incentive for guild members to run the daily dungeons for the guild to advance their stronghold except for the love of their guild because you can't pick the required daily dungeon and earn you normal AD at the same time. Loss for the guild as well as the player.
2. Sometimes real life requires you to leave a dungeon (beside bad players etc) and being penalised for doing this when this is the only source of your AD income and your playing time is limited just does not work for many of us.
3. As one of the ranked guild officers, I spend a lot of time helping new players to do dungeons to earn their AD and to gear up and teach them the mechanics, but this is done with appropriateness choice of dungeon. Being given a random dungeon just makes it complicated. For this reason, taking away the normal earning AD from regular queue systems is a bad idea.
4. Will this new random queue system assist new players?
I have supported this game and my guildies for over 4 years, taken the closing of the gateway, the removal of AD leadership, the nerf of the bondings so I beg to know how am I going to find the AD to level enchantments to beyond 10 plus...with this new earning AD system. Where is the promised return of missing dungeons from Mod 6 or are they lost forever?
Please reconsider this idea, don't destroy my excitement of a new skirmish that is coming.
Part of Team Tredecim of the Cloaks Alliance website
https://cloakalliance.wordpress.com/
You remove the secret bait and switch nerf to RNG you did after keygate. Put it back to what it was that first week when everyone was having fun.
The second fold is to make the special 450 drops in each dungeon like Deepknights have a 50% drop rate and a random component on the item. Take some lessons from other games people farm like Borderlands and Diablo. The deepknight example would be Hp 50000-70000 and power 1500-2000. People will repeat all the dungeons if there are rewards and if they can make numbers higher. People will farm to get that last digit of power and if they are getting the item they are seeking and keep the queues full.
To be honest you guys broke the queue system when you forgot the very lesson you learned during keygate which is rewards are what keep people playing and queueing.
Firstly let me say I welcome the idea of random queues. I used to play FF14 that had this in place and other mechanics like needed class bonus etc. which was a huge boon for new players who needed to catch up.
With that said, I think your planned implementation of random queues will have the COMPLETE OPPOSITE EFFECT of helping newer players which you say is your intent, and here is why:
I remember that as a lowbie, getting my daily bonus for dungeons and skirmishes made for a large source of my AD income. New players will now be denied this as they don't have the IL to meet the requirements for epic dungeons queues (11k IL!!). You say that one of the goals is to break the monatomy of players going for the same dung/skirmish over and over again... but you are now going to force new players to repeat the same go to dung/skirm they are eligible for more times to make the same AD they would before in your new system.
Random dungs queues should be broken down to their respective tiers: T1 queues for ELOL/VT/MC, T2 for ETOS/ECC/EGWF/CN, T3 for FBI/MSP/TONG. I know you say that you have your system in place to prevent abuse, but your system will do more harm than good in leaving lower players out in the cold.
Secondly not only is this plan bad for new players, it is also discouraging for end-game players. The main rule here is that NOBODY WANTS TO SPEND 1 HOUR+ to complete a single dungeon. 1 hour is the most playtime someone might have in a single night, and here are the reasons why it relates to your plan:
The current meta does not support your dungeon q requirements of 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 DPS. Go into any LFG channel and you will see that for any T3 dung people are looking for mostly support classes and 1, maybe 2 DPS at best. These people are not speedrunners, rather they are just practical players that know that if they want any chance of completing a T3 dung within a hours time with RANDOM people, this is the setup they need.
Random PUGs still have a high failure rate running T3s. Your current incentive of 5k AD are peanuts when the player has to weigh up the stress and time lost helping a bad PUG spend 1hour+ in one of these with no guarantee they can get the end chest before the group abandons. Please consider this: You have just completed your stressful day of helping to develop and improve NW, and now just want to relax by levelling up on your favourite game. Do you do this by spending 10-15 on a task whose rewards are practically guaranteed in value (5k salvage from ESOT), or do you spend the next 1-2 hours of your life in a high stress environment with unknown success, and the reward you get for putting up with it is exactly the same payout value (5k random q bonus for doing MSP).
Also the random q bonus should absolutely go on top of the the pre-existing daily AD bonus. Raising the AD cap means little to me as an end-game player as this bonus amounts to a small part of my income. I would rather you have both bonuses but keep the low AD cap if necessary, as it means helping the new players catch up more.
PUGs are not patient people (we all have the potential to be PUGs btw), if you random queue into a group where you or a PUG decides one person is a noob, slowing you down, or just needs to be taught a lesson, what is a PUG to do. Vote Kick. What do the worst PUGs do, spam the Vote Kick option.
Am pretty sure I cannot be the only person that has had my gameplay input totally freezing repeatedly because someone is abusing the Vote Kick option. I think this decreased significantly on the arrival of SH and then Alliances, or maybe it was something else. Knowing that PUGs will be PUGs if someone is getting between them and their loot, they will ruthlessly use the Vote Kick option when they determine someone is a risk to their reward.
Random queues make it harder for new players to catch up. Old and geared players can just run trough the dungeons the same way they do now, just in a public party instead of private.
For newer players though, they wont be able to get their bonus for a while until they unlock campaigns, and after they do, they still will be missing it a couple times a week, when they hit FBI or MSP or even CN.
Additionally, we know the servers and connections etc arent perfect. People sometimes disconnect. With private queues, you can wait for your friend who got disconnected to come back so he gets the reward he helped run the dungeon for. Public queues bring in the extra frustration so when someone disconnects, they will be replaced by some random.
I dare you, I DOUBLE DARE YOU, make an average player party, go into Tomb of the Nine Gods, and record it.
By average I mean like most of those who will try (rank 7-9 enchantments, in best case r11 bonding, maybe not all artifacts on mythics, new blue gear because of IL, y'know), add them some boons so they'll be just above 12k IL.
Now try to run tong with 3 average dps, average dc, and average tank (preferably a Guardian fighter), and let's see how much time you'll need to finish it. Even with godmode, I seriously doubt it will take you less than 1-1,5 hours... Now, that leaver penalty of 30 minutes doesn't seem so bad.. Heck, I'd rather go with premade team in private queue and do it twice in that (at least an) hour that I'd be in otherwise, and I'll get at least 4 salvageable items so IDC about that "pathetic" 5k I'd get for losing my nerves by running for Hero's accord with a team that would take even msp 45+min.
Other than what I told up there, the rest seems good.. maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to remove leavers penalty if the run is lasting 50% longer than what you've put in description. (Imagine getting in party with people who don't know what they're doing, so you end up being in Lair of Lostmauth over an hour - might sound like an dumb example, but I've played with a couple of "pugs" 11k+ that often got lost in there).
Also, I don't agree with the AD thingy: there are days when I (and other players, I believe) don't have a lot of time, so I just run 2 quick dungeons and 2 quick skirmishes, to get daily AD... but now I'll have to sacrifice a child and whole herd of goats, just so I wouldn't get queued to MSP/FBI and Throne/Prophecy..
You could at least give a bit lesser AD rewards than for random queue...
EDIT:
Am not interested in the slightest in what a spread sheet says will work, do it, record it, tell us when you succeed whether it is something you would enjoy doing every day.
-If this is for bots that much likely leech leveling dungeons, remove ad rewards from them. (Is sad i know but you can get some ad from weeklies still)
-If you still want to pull this through i suggest all bosses should drop gear so we have a guarated ad income and not just seals and "chances". That and/or make so that by queue for random boost your chance to get an artifact/companion/mount from end chest.
-Remove the incentive of playing support classes, the least we need is people that don't understand how their own class works
-Make it so those who haven't unlock all dungeons can random queue ignoring the unlocked dungeons on the list.
That or make specific rewards for each dungeon like each dungeon dropping an specific artifact/mount/companion but thats too complicated for you i know
That is not the worse case though, worse case is when you keep getting low item level players in your group, for example, at Epic Grey Wolf Den boss fight and being stuck in there for over 5 hours because your team doesn't have the DPS to get it done. So now that everyone will know they will be penalized if they were to leave instead of trying to get the job done, you will instead be forced to stay and keep failing and failing and failing... Before you know it, you could of been done with 6 other epic dungeons by the time you got out of just that one epic dungeon. So yeah, I do not think leaving a queue should be penalized, the only time people even leave a team is when they know the job can't be done or will take far too long. People don't just enter queues to leave it so adding this makes no sense.
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Sorry, have my tinfoil hat on this week.
Worst case scenario, they're running out of money. This is a distinct possibility because pvp is dead pretty much, and pvp'ers were always the biggest spenders. Couple that with the fact that most of the top end pve whales have everything, and have very little left to spend their money on, I'm not a whale, and even I don't have any real goals left that would require dropping my credit card on my toon. The guilds that care are all GH20 and stable, so no spending there either.
Hence the rank 14s and the coalward sales etc.
To stop average players amassing free ad from daily dungeons and zaxxing it into zen, they get randomized, so you have to choose either running something you don't want for ad, or running something you do want.
If all this is the case I wish they'd just say "guys, we needs moneys, plz donate."
I'd donate.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
You all better start addressing these excellent questions we have asked.If not then you have lied to us again just like the coals in vip when you removed them.If you ask for our input and we easily do your job showing a poor result and playability then the result you get will NOT be what you're looking for.Do you think perhaps the real dollars we spent on our alts is less than what is spent by new players?
I am not trying to be anything but helpful as we all are.
We love this game do you?
It is time to make a statement devs or your silence will make it for you.
And I for one am listening.
It's my choice to finnish content on my alts not yours.
SilverOak Main
Dc alt
tr alt
pal alt
> I wonder how the leaver penalty wil interact with the frequent game server disconnets. Usually a server disconnect in a PUG group will result in an automated removal from party. My best quess is that on days the game servers are cranky and disconnecting frequently PUGing will be even a bigger headache than normal as the disconnects hit players with the leaver penalty when they log back into the game a minute or so post disconnect.
I'm getting discod every hour of playtime or so. You are basically sol in a pug it's almost always filled by the time u get back. What would bite is getting discod right as the boss was dying penalty and no chest or reward
> Im not really adding anything new, but want to add the to voices why there is still a chance to change the way this is implemented.
>
> I feel like this is a blow to guilds. Many of my guildmates are people that almost never run pug groups. They have had too many bad experiences with players being rude and abusive and joined a guild to escape that. They are here to enjoy themselves not to be forced to run with people that make their experience unpleasant.
> I'm sorry new players and unguilded people are having trouble finding groups to run with but these changes aren't going to do anything to keep people from abusing other players when they cant complete their dungeon AND no one can quit without a penalty. We shouldn't have to choose between having fun and progressing. By putting AD behind the random queue, that's what we are faced with. (yes, i know we can still run the random queue with friends, but as people have already pointed out, that comes with its own complications and barriers)
>
> So what if we want to run Temple of the Spider 1 or 100 times in a day if that's the way we choose to spend our time? Especially since I run with guild/alliance only groups and, therefore, would not be benefiting random people anyway. We are capable of making our own random queues. We do lots of different dungeons to mix things up when we get bored. We dont need someone else checking the boxes for us. There are certain dungeons we stay away from because very few of our people are well geared enough, and those that are, find it a time-consuming pain and just not fun. (I'm looking at you MSP).
>
> They act like people were being forced to run ETOS before, and thats why they quit. The irony now is they really are forcing people to run ETOS.
>
> People have been crying for MORE choices...not someone making their choices from a list of the same overplayed content.
If you want 100 etos runs with your friends you still can just no bonus ad for the first 2 runs
#1: Anoited Champions get Anoited Army and Blessing Of Battle, which share a massive amount of power
#2: Divine Oracles get Terrifying Insight, a flat 20% damage boost to the entire party, and Prophecy Of Doom, a large enemy damage resist debuff.
#3: Both clerics share Power (the AC is just better at it) and the power sharing from both DCs stacks.
#4: Two DCs means you can have Empowered Break The Spirit *and* Empowered Forgemaster's Flame up both at once, for another 60% damage boost.
So, now that you nerfed the one thing that made the SW viable by more than 50%, are you going to increase his damage by 50% to compensate? No one wants an SW endgame as it is - despite having moderate DPS, massive debuffs, and the best heals in the game - because heals don't matter in a game with epileptic healthbars, the debuffs are in no way obvious, and no endgame SW can compete with an endgame GWF/HR/TR for DPS. Knocking our damage (and thus our heals) by another 50%+ isn't going to help. For a lot of us, Infantile Compensation was making up ~70% of our damage.
Not really asking you undo it - it was kind of stupid to have all SW's rely on that one-pet mechanic, but you gotta compensate them somewhere else, or it's a dead class.
Also don't be thinking we didn't notice the Ninja Nerf you pulled on the Live server Thursday, when you tweaked the Stalwart Lion so that his Radiant Weapon damage no longer shares with the group!
*sigh* I dunno how you go about making these people understand the simple concept that carrot > stick:
hallowed ground 40% damage buff you forgot.