@noworries#8859 Giving bondings 50% uptime makes them 100% useless.
I was actually on board with a bonding nerf, there were far too many advantages to using them over an augment.
However, players base their characters around key stats (crit/armor pen/defense). We need to be able to count on having these stats at the percentages we want at all times.
Being at max effectiveness for half a boss fight is out of the question. No one is going to want to keep their bondings in this state.
It would have been much better to nerf bonding percents below that of an augment + eldritch. That way you get the choice of higher constant values with an augment, or lower values but summoned pet bonuses (better actives, debuffs, and power sharing transfers) from bondings.
I really hope you reconsider this 50% uptime junk.
Other changes seem fine at first glance though.
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited August 2017
@noworries#8859 2 things that i found so far that may be problematic:
With 32 000 HP augments with empowered runestones will be all tanks choice and even DPS since they are so far above even DPS may think about getting them.
If tranquil is triggering once every second, the pvp healing depression won't be enough to make it fair enchantment, a tranquil healing around 2k each second is better than a full time champion's return insignia and there are plenty healing related problems in pvp already yet in pve will most likely be unprefered.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
the real issue is the increased arp.. they should revoke that change, its too much now without bondings to give you the massive boost.
Bring arp back to 60% this would be a necessary first step.. then maybe relook at some other stuff. Doing dailies is going to be a boring chore.. i mean really boring. Its already boring, but now even more boring.
So there will now be one mark each level for reagent if i am reading correctly right? The greater potency and the superior potency? Are the Superior going to drop now? And will the tenbourus enchants proc separately or are they going to work like the Dragon hoards that just increase proc chance?
Valina Darksbane, CW 70 That Guy You Know, OP 70 Main, Valora GF 70 14.3k That Guy who hastes, DC 70 Chopper, GWF 70 Hel, SW 70 Sora, HR 70
@noworries can we get a better picture of the "chance" for tranquil and serene runestones? I've always wanted to try them out and I have some saved up but it's really hard to gauge whether they're worth it. I have a couple alts who rely very heavily on their companions to deal damage so keeping companions alive is a huge priority.
That said, I'd like to plant an idea in the back of your mind if possible: with PvE enemies doing as much damage as they do, they can often take a companion down in one or two hits. It would be interesting if there was a runestone that granted a companion a chance of a (massive) temporary HP and/or defense boost. Such a runestone should only affect the companion, however, never the player.
The HPs from Empowered were increased quite a bit to try and help with the lifespan of companions. I can look into digging up the chance on Serene and Tranquil tomorrow.
The point of running a summoned combat companion is to take advantage of the extra statistics it gives through Bondings. With the new Bonding's numbers if you sacrifice one of those in favor of an Empowered you've just removed the reason to use a Bonding companion to begin with.
Look... for builds based on stacking HP to boost Aura of Courage damage (Paladins themselves and usually Wizards that run content with OPs) those Empowered and Tenebrous will be delicious.
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kalimoucho44Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 28Arc User
Any plans on the relic weapons, and what they require? Lots of players have to run MSVA a bunch of times to get the stones needed to even upgrade the weapon, will they be taken away as well, and replaced with this new system?
Will there be a cap on refinement points (total/(weekly/daily) accrued)? I think most people would like to know in advance as that does impact planning for upgrades.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,231Arc User
Bonding: 100% chance to proc for 15 seconds, cooldown of 30 seconds (50% uptime)
How is that 50% uptime?
15 seconds on 30 seconds off 15 seconds on 30 seconds off 15 seconds on 30 seconds off 15 seconds on
In this 150 seconds, you have only 60 seconds on. It is 40% up time.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Bonding: 100% chance to proc for 15 seconds, cooldown of 30 seconds (50% uptime)
How is that 50% uptime?
15 seconds on 30 seconds off 15 seconds on 30 seconds off 15 seconds on 30 seconds off 15 seconds on
In this 150 seconds, you have only 60 seconds on. It is 40% up time.
The 30 second cooldown triggers when the buff is applied, not when the duration ends. Semantics. A 15 second buff with a 30 second cooldown could be stated as a 15 second buff and a 15 second cooldown. It depends when the cooldown starts.
So its like this I assume (which makes a 50% uptime):
15 second buff on, 30 second cooldown starts 15 second buff off, 15 second cooldown remaining. 30 second cooldown ends, 15 second buff on.
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
I cannot begin to say how disgusted I am about these changes, unless there are other changes which will make the game playable again I just don't see any future for me here. I am an altoholic, so have many 12-14K chars rather than one 16K. The following things now become unattainable for me:
Upgrading my perfect weapon/armor enchants to trans let alone higher, ludicrously more expensive in SMoPs. Actually ever doing stuff like To9G. I need the full bonding boost. Getting enough ArPen to do new content.
Unless the content is made a hell of a lot easier, this is going to make much of it utterly unplayable for me. Don't nerf bondings (at least not much), balance augments up to make them competitive, then you don't have to adjust the content down. Also the cost of GMoPs and particularly SMoPs will need to come down spectacularly with UMoPs not much more than SMoPs are now.
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
Bonding: 100% chance to proc for 15 seconds, cooldown of 30 seconds (50% uptime)
How is that 50% uptime?
15 seconds on 30 seconds off 15 seconds on 30 seconds off 15 seconds on 30 seconds off 15 seconds on
In this 150 seconds, you have only 60 seconds on. It is 40% up time.
The 30 second cooldown triggers when the buff is applied, not when the duration ends. Semantics. A 15 second buff with a 30 second cooldown could be stated as a 15 second buff and a 15 second cooldown. It depends when the cooldown starts.
So its like this I assume (which makes a 50% uptime):
15 second buff on, 30 second cooldown starts 15 second buff off, 15 second cooldown remaining. 30 second cooldown ends, 15 second buff on.
Thanks. Your explanation makes sense.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Having never really run an augment - how does this affect protectors camaraderie, protectors friendship and the Leg Companion bonuses?
Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold" Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Why did you massively increased the amount of marks needed to upgrade enchantments? even greater ones! 15 superiors? 10 ultimate or whatever they are called? I don't you think you are intending to drop the prices of greater and superiors, aren't you?
With all those drastic changes it's like you guys are pointing a big middle finger at us the community and telling us to go play other games.
Just do what most of my alliance and I'm doing right now and quit before you waste any more time on game developers that are only primarily interested in your wallet and absolutely nothing else.
They justify it by removing the duplicate requirements of an enchantment/enhancement. So in theory less refinement, less coal/pres wards, and less marks needed. Kinda balances out.
Even more reliance on Preservation and Coalescent wards... wonderful.
Needing a second enchantment/enhancement to go up a tier is no longer a thing. That alone significantly reduces the number of coalescent wards it takes to level up a weapon/armor Enhancement. The percentage chance of success of enchantments and runestones was improved as well, meaning fewer preservation wards needed.
Yea that would be true IF we didn't have loads of accumulated Trans enchants in game. I bet there are already as many Trans enchants as players and so the amount of ward people buy is now lot less than before. This will only begin a huge sale of wards to upgrade the existing loads of Trans enchants. So no looks nice but it doesn't work.
How does this system affect artifact weapons (main / off) and armor (neck / belt)? What stones will be required to upgrade?
Artifact Equipment has had the progression RP cut in half, the reagents are still the same it is just that Marks of Power/Stability/Union have been changed to all be the same thing which is called Enchanting Stones.
If you reduce the value refinement items by 10 but only reduce the refinement requirement for artifact gear and weapons by 2: that effectively INCREASES the refinement process by 5. Did I miss some other mitigating factor?
Two parts to this.
First, we reduced the cost and value of RP to 1/10th of the value to help manage the new currency better. This has zero effect on the cost to level anything as both the cost and what you are earning are reduced equally.
Second, we reduced the costs to level Artifacts and Artifact Equipment by half and reduced the cost of Enchantments/Runestones and Enhancements with a new progression system that reduces the overall RP costs of getting up to rank 12.
So, for clarity: 1st you're reducing the RP cost of everything by a factor of 10. (i.e. Enchantments, Artifacts, Artifact Gear, etc...)
Then reducing the RP Cost of Artifact Weapons and Gear AGAIN by a actor of 2. (Essentially making it x2 RP all the time for these items.)
Do I understand it correctly now?
That is the basic gist of it, yes.
rp cost reduction. AD/Zen cost will increase drasticly.
Maybe my math is off, but with the proposed changes, we get to spend millions of AD to be short of where we are today. Why would this make any player happy? Why would we encourage anyone else to join this system?
What about those of us who have already upgraded our stuff the old fashioned way? How will we be compensated for all our losses? All our 8's to make 9's and 9's for 10's... It seems to benefit new players but does nothing for the players who have already invested in the game prior to these changes. It kinda makes me feel like I wasted hundreds of hours of my time, my hard earned a.d.and even my real money...
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johnjohniiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 108Arc User
I have a few points/ questions to restate or add. First off, I really appreciate the fact I'm seeing moderators chiming in answering questions. It's really great to feel like we, the players, have a voice.
1. The end game dungeons have been built with the damage boost from bondings in mind. With this change the endgame dungeons will LOTS tougher. I'm looking at about a 9k drop in power and that's after ranking up all my rank 12's to 14. This will make it harder not easier for higher end dungeons.
2. While I'm very glad you're taking away the need for 2 enchants to rank up 7 to 10 you've added a new mark of potency. Seems to me needing 15 superior marks vs 4 or 5 now at a cost of 75k per pop plus 1 to 2 ultimate's at a cost higher than that for weapon enchants is not really a benefit to the players at all. Regular enchants will see an increase in overall ad cost with the ultimate's. Seems like it's an exponential overall increase. You will take away my need for an extra 7 - 9 rank enchant but added hundreds of thousands more ad/zen cost.
3. Continuing about enchants we're also going to need more preservation and coalescent wards… lots more… further increase of ad/zen cost.
4. Bonding runestones have been a must have for 2 years. You are taking away something we've been FORCED to get to be competitive. Are you going to give us the ability to swap out our rank 12 bondings for other rank 12 runestones?
5. I can say I'm feeling very frustrated that instead of adding value to other things you're taking away value from things you've forced the player base to get. Why not just increase the runestones more to make them more valuable? What you've done is a good start but why not make the increase a bit more and leave bondings alone?
6. Have you thought about the loss of your new insignia abilities in relation to augments? Any plans on changing that?
Comments
I was actually on board with a bonding nerf, there were far too many advantages to using them over an augment.
However, players base their characters around key stats (crit/armor pen/defense). We need to be able to count on having these stats at the percentages we want at all times.
Being at max effectiveness for half a boss fight is out of the question. No one is going to want to keep their bondings in this state.
It would have been much better to nerf bonding percents below that of an augment + eldritch. That way you get the choice of higher constant values with an augment, or lower values but summoned pet bonuses (better actives, debuffs, and power sharing transfers) from bondings.
I really hope you reconsider this 50% uptime junk.
Other changes seem fine at first glance though.
With 32 000 HP augments with empowered runestones will be all tanks choice and even DPS since they are so far above even DPS may think about getting them.
If tranquil is triggering once every second, the pvp healing depression won't be enough to make it fair enchantment, a tranquil healing around 2k each second is better than a full time champion's return insignia and there are plenty healing related problems in pvp already yet in pve will most likely be unprefered.
Bring arp back to 60% this would be a necessary first step.. then maybe relook at some other stuff. Doing dailies is going to be a boring chore.. i mean really boring. Its already boring, but now even more boring.
I hate the increases. too much.
That Guy You Know, OP 70
Main, Valora GF 70 14.3k
That Guy who hastes, DC 70
Chopper, GWF 70
Hel, SW 70
Sora, HR 70
French guild : L'Ordre Du Dragon Noir
How is that 50% uptime?
15 seconds on
30 seconds off
15 seconds on
30 seconds off
15 seconds on
30 seconds off
15 seconds on
In this 150 seconds, you have only 60 seconds on. It is 40% up time.
So its like this I assume (which makes a 50% uptime):
15 second buff on, 30 second cooldown starts
15 second buff off, 15 second cooldown remaining.
30 second cooldown ends, 15 second buff on.
Upgrading my perfect weapon/armor enchants to trans let alone higher, ludicrously more expensive in SMoPs.
Actually ever doing stuff like To9G. I need the full bonding boost.
Getting enough ArPen to do new content.
Unless the content is made a hell of a lot easier, this is going to make much of it utterly unplayable for me. Don't nerf bondings (at least not much), balance augments up to make them competitive, then you don't have to adjust the content down. Also the cost of GMoPs and particularly SMoPs will need to come down spectacularly with UMoPs not much more than SMoPs are now.
I mean, l33t sounds even better
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
Why did you massively increased the amount of marks needed to upgrade enchantments? even greater ones! 15 superiors? 10 ultimate or whatever they are called? I don't you think you are intending to drop the prices of greater and superiors, aren't you?
With all those drastic changes it's like you guys are pointing a big middle finger at us the community and telling us to go play other games.
[The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)
If this were an enchant, would the system honor my RP already invested?
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
rp cost reduction. AD/Zen cost will increase drasticly.
1. The end game dungeons have been built with the damage boost from bondings in mind. With this change the endgame dungeons will LOTS tougher. I'm looking at about a 9k drop in power and that's after ranking up all my rank 12's to 14. This will make it harder not easier for higher end dungeons.
2. While I'm very glad you're taking away the need for 2 enchants to rank up 7 to 10 you've added a new mark of potency. Seems to me needing 15 superior marks vs 4 or 5 now at a cost of 75k per pop plus 1 to 2 ultimate's at a cost higher than that for weapon enchants is not really a benefit to the players at all. Regular enchants will see an increase in overall ad cost with the ultimate's. Seems like it's an exponential overall increase. You will take away my need for an extra 7 - 9 rank enchant but added hundreds of thousands more ad/zen cost.
3. Continuing about enchants we're also going to need more preservation and coalescent wards… lots more… further increase of ad/zen cost.
4. Bonding runestones have been a must have for 2 years. You are taking away something we've been FORCED to get to be competitive. Are you going to give us the ability to swap out our rank 12 bondings for other rank 12 runestones?
5. I can say I'm feeling very frustrated that instead of adding value to other things you're taking away value from things you've forced the player base to get. Why not just increase the runestones more to make them more valuable? What you've done is a good start but why not make the increase a bit more and leave bondings alone?
6. Have you thought about the loss of your new insignia abilities in relation to augments? Any plans on changing that?
I'm concerned. Not going to lie.