My guildless HR is at 2840 IL on live. On preview he's now at 10673 GS, making him eligible for FBI/SVA/Spellplague. Not sure I'd want to run him through there though I wouldn't even feel super happy taking him through CN, even though the new GS for that is a mere 7600.
I foresee a lot of deaths in people's futures.
3
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
A functional level indicator towards that characters current group potential should not include utility slots.
Well, if you have Dark enchants you get a +Movement stat, right? That *might* improve your survivability, so in turn it migh help the group.
But yeah, I would cut the contribution from utility slots in half and double or triple the value that Bonding runestones give.
What annoys me is that the PvP boons contribute, and they absolutely do not help in PvE, and will give PvP players an unfair advantage - those the that PvP at lower levels and get the boons would be able to enter higher-level content earlier than pure PvE players.
In principal this seems like a good change. However I don't understand the rational that players should have access to the same queues they have now. That is the only practical part of a power rating system. If nothing changes as the result of the new system then why bother changing at all. It just changes the relative sizes of a few ePeens. If it is just a system to recognise your the progress of your toon then the new system is absolutely fine and dandy. However if it were part of a revamp of the queue requirements. Maybe the minimum GS requirement could be accompanied by a second requirement for group content, either a total or average gear score for the group somewhat higher than the minimum requirement. This would allow players access to the content they have now but would mean fewer unviable groups forming. My first experience of CN as a 2.1K player was a group of 2k-ish players. We didn't get across the first bridge and it has made me wary of CN ever since, result I've run it less than half a dozen times.
Nitpick; a boon which gives 400 stat points gives 30 GS but an enchantment that gives 430 gives 58 GS. I understand that not all boons are created equal but some are more powerful than 400 stat points to balance those that aren't.
My main is 2810 on Live and 10665 on preview. So currently scrapes into SVA but under the new rules has access to everything.
I think I might buy up a few cheap purple companions. The bot masters will want them to boost GS.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
While in general, I would like them, to remove min IL from private que, in reality, I think, that I would hate it. As it is, I had some unpleasant discussions with friends, guild and alliance members hitting min IL and asking me or other ppl to carry them in MSVH, FBI etc..
If you would remove min IL from private que the entitlement many players feel would range free. BIS players can solo/ duo CN. I dont want to discuss with ppl, who hit lvl 70, why I dont want to waste a hour carrying them in CN or to put everyone on ignore pestering me to help them unlock MSVH in a 'quick' FBI run with their 2k IL chars.
I can understand, that ppl like the easy mode and some struggle to complete dungeons or gear up. I understand, that the removement of min IL can be useful in some situations. I know, that I have 6-12 requests a day, to run FBI or MSVH or to 'help out' with my tank or DC in CN. I think, that this number would double or triple with the removement of min IL while the success rate of these runs would fall.
Dont get me wrong. I dont mind helping out. I dont demand a 4k/ 16k group, to run a dungeon. Most of the times running VT ELOL etc. I que solo. I do help out, when I feel like it and I can spare the time. I joined MSVH runs with friends and guild members, knowing that we would fail, bc the group was to weak, bc they asked me to join. BUT a total removement of min IL in private ques would put a stress test on guild and alliances I dont want to happen.
When I've considered this as an option in the past, my thoughts had been framed in the context of a guild where people are deeply courteous of each other and very much aware of their own limitations. And I had not really extrapolated it to a broader perspective.
So, thanks for your post. I think you raise excellent points.
A functional level indicator towards that characters current group potential should not include utility slots.
Well, if you have Dark enchants you get a +Movement stat, right? That *might* improve your survivability, so in turn it migh help the group.
But yeah, I would cut the contribution from utility slots in half and double or triple the value that Bonding runestones give.
What annoys me is that the PvP boons contribute, and they absolutely do not help in PvE, and will give PvP players an unfair advantage - those the that PvP at lower levels and get the boons would be able to enter higher-level content earlier than pure PvE players.
Well.....they sure are not anything impressive, i would like to see them in pve as well, perhaps it will even be an incentive to play pvp, and the one that don't like pvp will not be loosing by much, after all pve already gives so much more ad and boons to use in pvp, why not the other way around? (with a "non stacking rule" like auras from mod 11);
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
Right then how is a player supposed to know why he does not meet the min requirements ( on this graph the dev posted to enter dungeons )then if they(sources of power) are both cumulative as far as item level ( regular boons gear enchantments etc ) yet ... guild boons are excluded for the sake of entry requirements yet added to the final item level tally.... we essentially need 2 item level values then displayed
its like sorry you are high enough gear score with guild boons to enter but not enough without it ( so it stops people in low guild from feeling alienated .. but also stops people in higher level guild from joining that have the boons to make up for power (that they also grinded and payed for ) but not the gear to enter
(also a whole bunch of people alts will now fail to make the Q lol time to pay up ( very alt unfriendly the opposite of what the devs want )
so essentially open your wallet to get in the meet the min gear score cause your guild boons that you grinded and worked so hard so wont carry you as far as dungeon entry requirements (cause it is not fair to lower guilds blah blah) ... but we will still add them to your item level anyways ...
oh and we dont want you switching to higher level established guilds to avoid having to pay or gear up either (to make entry requirements ) is what Im reading between the lines (also under the guise of protecting lower level guilds)
hmmmm essentially teasing the player 2 values must be shown the one on the curve to enter the dungeon and the one that is total item level with guild boons it is very confusing care to comment
perhaps dungeons need bronze silver and gold difficulties /scaling accounting for guild boons and power ranged 1-6 6-14 and 14 20 lets say and add this to the level to get in redo the graphs bro no low level guild will be aliened cause there will be a lower level Q and your items levels scaling will be accurate
you are trying to set difficulty level for a dungeon /scaling to one item number when a guild can have such a range of guild power 1- 20 adding thousands in stats ... now you have worse item level problem on your hands not better under the guise of worrying about low level guilds
you have the data what is the average guild level in the game not 0 not 1 not 2 . you need to balance based on average guild levels as well not discount them to make it "fair" when it is not
you guys created this item level disparity with all these high level guild boons Players want to be able to run the same area scaled just one dungeons entry level setting wont do it
are you a solo player no problem potions a temp buffs should be added to item level as well to meet requirments to get in just like it is with the gear and potions you need for everfrost resistance to make it in the newer dungeons and skirmish
Geez @kalina311... You keep getting it all wrong. The guild boons excluded was just a design part, and has nothing to do with the players and IL sources. Excluding the guild boons helped get the average entry of 10.6k IL instead of something like 11.5k. This DOES NOT mean the guild boons are excluded when YOU are queuing.
It was already pretty clearly explained. Hmmm... Let's say you have 9.1k IL from gear, etc and 1.5k IL from guild boons, you CAN do FBI. All they meant was that those numbers were not used while determining the averages.
All this rage and passages over a misunderstanding.
Exactly excluding guild boons from being added to entry requirements reason was stated by the dev to stop payers umm players .. from changing to more powerfulls guilds ...that does not change my stance that dungeons should have multiple scaled difficulty level to enter not just one
and my stance on solo players getting screwed also is still valid
my stance on there being tons of other items contributing to item level that were not counted ( previous post ) ..still valid
overall good changes the dual spec and items levels could use some tweaking tho ..
Just wanted to hop in here to clarify that although the item level system now incorporates more elements, it is still distinct from the old gear score system. Gear score looked directly at your raw stats, and would fluctuate depending on whether you were under the effect of a buff that impacted those stats. There was also no clear indication on an item how much gear score it would contribute.
In addition, gear score did not consider abilities that were not raw stats. For instance if a unique piece of gear granted an effect that under certain conditions gave +10% damage dealt, that would not contribute to your gear score at all, yet that might represent a portion of the item's power. You could therefore have situations where the gear score granted by one item or boon would be lower than another item or boon that was clearly superior.
So .... a dumb question here. Since your companion now contributes to your item level (and fairly substantially too), what happens if your companion dies and needs to be resummoned (Falls in the water during the Dragon Turtle fight for example). This could easily be a 2000 point drop in your item level for the rest of the fight. Does the dungeon kick you? (I know it will kick you if you strip naked and drop under the item level requirement).
I think you technically still have the companion equupped.
No ... if your companion dies and needs to be resummoned on preview, your item level drops. I tried this in SoMI and I lost nearly 2K in item level when my bonded companion went into the drink.
@dupeks, yes, good catch, that's exactly the kind of unintended side-effect I was asking for people's help in finding!
I just checked the item data and nothing has changed to those items recently (other than the item level adjustments), so that's definitely what it is. We should be able to fix it before it goes live.
4
frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
Right then how is a player supposed to know why he does not meet the min requirements ( on this graph the dev posted to enter dungeons )then if they(sources of power) are both cumulative as far as item level ( regular boons gear enchantments etc ) yet ... guild boons are excluded for the sake of entry requirements yet added to the final item level tally.... we essentially need 2 item level values then displayed
its like sorry you are high enough gear score with guild boons to enter but not enough without it ( so it stops people in low guild from feeling alienated .. but also stops people in higher level guild from joining that have the boons to make up for power (that they also grinded and payed for ) but not the gear to enter
(also a whole bunch of people alts will now fail to make the Q lol time to pay up ( very alt unfriendly the opposite of what the devs want )
so essentially open your wallet to get in the meet the min gear score cause your guild boons that you grinded and worked so hard so wont carry you as far as dungeon entry requirements (cause it is not fair to lower guilds blah blah) ... but we will still add them to your item level anyways ...
oh and we dont want you switching to higher level established guilds to avoid having to pay or gear up either (to make entry requirements ) is what Im reading between the lines (also under the guise of protecting lower level guilds)
hmmmm essentially teasing the player 2 values must be shown the one on the curve to enter the dungeon and the one that is total item level with guild boons it is very confusing care to comment
perhaps dungeons need bronze silver and gold difficulties /scaling accounting for guild boons and power ranged 1-6 6-14 and 14 20 lets say and add this to the level to get in redo the graphs bro no low level guild will be aliened cause there will be a lower level Q and your items levels scaling will be accurate
you are trying to set difficulty level for a dungeon /scaling to one item number when a guild can have such a range of guild power 1- 20 adding thousands in stats ... now you have worse item level problem on your hands not better under the guise of worrying about low level guilds
you have the data what is the average guild level in the game not 0 not 1 not 2 . you need to balance based on average guild levels as well not discount them to make it "fair" when it is not
you guys created this item level disparity with all these high level guild boons Players want to be able to run the same area scaled just one dungeons entry level setting wont do it
are you a solo player no problem potions a temp buffs should be added to item level as well to meet requirments to get in just like it is with the gear and potions you need for everfrost resistance to make it in the newer dungeons and skirmish
Geez @kalina311... You keep getting it all wrong. The guild boons excluded was just a design part, and has nothing to do with the players and IL sources. Excluding the guild boons helped get the average entry of 10.6k IL instead of something like 11.5k. This DOES NOT mean the guild boons are excluded when YOU are queuing.
It was already pretty clearly explained. Hmmm... Let's say you have 9.1k IL from gear, etc and 1.5k IL from guild boons, you CAN do FBI. All they meant was that those numbers were not used while determining the averages.
All this rage and passages over a misunderstanding.
Exactly excluding guild boons from being added to entry requirements reason was stated by the dev to stop payers umm players .. from changing to more powerfulls guilds ...that does not change my stance that dungeons should have multiple scaled difficulty level to enter not just one
and my stance on solo players getting screwed also is still valid
my stance on there being tons of other items contributing to item level that were not counted ( previous post ) ..still valid
overall good changes the dual spec and items levels could use some tweaking tho ..
Right... Hit the disagree button for trying to clear you up. -_-
"One other thing worth mentioning: the new queue values in the above chart were calculated WITHOUT counting guild boons."
ARE GUILD BOONS GONNA BE PART OF ITEM LEVEL OR NOT ??OR A SEPARATE STAT ?
Queue values. They balanced the queue values against players without any guild boons.
Right then how is a player supposed to know why he does not meet the min requirements ( on this graph the dev posted to enter dungeons )then if they(sources of power) are both cumulative as far as item level ( regular boons gear enchantments etc ) yet ... guild boons are excluded for the sake of entry requirements yet added to the final item level tally.... we essentially need 2 item level values then displayed
its like sorry you are high enough gear score with guild boons to enter but not enough without it ( so it stops people in low guild from feeling alienated .. but also stops people in higher level guild from joining that have the boons to make up for power (that they also grinded and payed for ) but not the gear to enter
(also a whole bunch of people alts will now fail to make the Q lol time to pay up ( very alt unfriendly the opposite of what the devs want )
so essentially open your wallet to get in the meet the min gear score cause your guild boons that you grinded and worked so hard so wont carry you as far as dungeon entry requirements (cause it is not fair to lower guilds blah blah) ... but we will still add them to your item level anyways ...
I think you technically still have the companion equupped.
No ... if your companion dies and needs to be resummoned on preview, your item level drops. I tried this in SoMI and I lost nearly 2K in item level when my bonded companion went into the drink.
Haha ilvl will be wildly fluctuating now.
That said, it doesn't matter. You can go below the min ilvl once inside and it won't kick you or anything (just like you can take off your EF rez in FBI etc.). The check is only when you q to get in. (Literally verified this a moment ago too, for everyone's peace of mind)
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited March 2017
@asterdahl, @rgutscheradev the morlanth's shroud stands at 450 IL is this because it drops from shard of the night and not spellplague caverns master like it was originally announced? Regardless of that can you increase the health threshold? It's very unlikely that bonus will ever be useful the way it is now.
Or....
There will be another piece of armor droping from spc master? Because the patch note said "this armor will give additional life steal when in a party and extra HP while out of it".
So im assuming pointless extra orange mounts in stable and companions are still giving item level. Why? They aren't doing anything a purple ( blue in some cases for mounts) aren't doing.
Thx for these improvement, same as thanks for laodouts !!! I asked for both of it , you come along. This really is a 100% improvement, having options to run alternative builds and also get much better reflection of "the real IL". About mount/Insignia, companion boni etc. I agree to the written above, everything mentioned so far. A+ from my side.
Only thing ... utitlyty slots should be downgraded a bit. A Dragonhoard rank 12 doesn´t really do anything about your performance, same as +700 movement imo.
So im assuming pointless extra orange mounts in stable and companions are still giving item level. Why? They aren't doing anything a purple ( blue in some cases for mounts) aren't doing.
Any developer care to comment?
RNGesus how many orange mounts do you have?
That said, just having mounts in your stable doesn't contribute to iLvl. The Mount Combat Power (if any), Mount Passive Power (if any), and all insignia slotted in the stable count. Idle/empty mounts in the stable do not.
But yes, 2x orange companions will give extra points. That's not the end of the world, it's a reasonable compromise to not make the system super complex yet represent player power a little better than today.
Keep in mind that "item level" or any other designation you might want to call it is meant to be a rough view of how much effort/investment the player has put into that character, but it's not a precise measuring stick for optimization. As such, there are going to be places where the system is a bit blind or stupid, because it assigns equal value to boons good and bad (which still beats no value or value only for the stat-granting ones), and it can be fooled by using higher value items that don't add to efficacy.
You cannot expect something like this to be a substitute for actually knowing the other players you group with.
The redesign is intended to take into account some significant character investments that were not reflected in the previous number, not to be a replacement for thinking.
Now up on preview is a revamp of the item level system. This is something we’ve been wanting to do for a while, so as to: * have Total Item Level be a bit more accurate (but NOT perfect -- that’s impossible!) representation of player power * have getting new weapons and armor feel more fair in terms of item level received * have “everything count”: if you get a new thing that makes your character better, it should be reflected in the item level system
--snip--
The goal here is to have an item level system that is a bit more accurate representation of player power.
The goal is not to show how much effort a player has put into his character but to provide neutral other players an indication of how strong and effective that character potentially can be. Item level is meant to be a character performance indicator (CPI).
The player base uses item level as a potential performance indicator already, the zone spam for 3k+ edemo, Tiamat or 4k+ MSVA/FBI groups are proof enough of that.
1. Utility slots provide no additional performance to a character with maybe the exception of Darks who add a very little bit. As such they should add a minimal score to the IL or no score at all. 2. The first 7 powerpoints should add to the IL though as it does represent a higher potential output from a character. Level 4 passive powers, encounter powers and at-wills do make a significant difference.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
So im assuming pointless extra orange mounts in stable and companions are still giving item level. Why? They aren't doing anything a purple ( blue in some cases for mounts) aren't doing.
Any developer care to comment?
Mounts don't.
The explanation in no way indicates that they would (only the bonuses from them, which you can only slot one at a time), and @trgluestickz already confirmed that stabled mounts add nothing.
The player base uses item level as a potential performance indicator already, the zone spam for 3k+ edemo, Tiamat or 4k+ MSVA/FBI groups are proof enough of that.
Yes, players who already use item level as a substitute for complex actions such as thinking and getting to know other people and heaven forbid even making friends to play with.... They'll be terribly fooled by a system that will now overcredit utility enchants and spending a few extra million AD to upgrade useless companions to legendary.
The player base uses item level as a potential performance indicator already, the zone spam for 3k+ edemo, Tiamat or 4k+ MSVA/FBI groups are proof enough of that.
Yes, players who already use item level as a substitute for complex actions such as thinking and getting to know other people and heaven forbid even making friends to play with.... They'll be terribly fooled by a system that will now overcredit utility enchants and spending a few extra million AD to upgrade useless companions to legendary.
It's tragic, really.
It's a cloud nine point of view you are trying to make. Reality is that the player base uses item level as a potential character performance indicator. I fail to understand why you are trying to deny that simple fact?
Yes, they shouldn't. Yes, they should socialize before judging. Yes, they should try out a player before passing him/her based on the IL score. But reality of the matter is they don't. They want an indicator that tells them what they can expect and yes sometimes they will be let down and other times they'll be pleasantly surprised.
Legendary companions and utility slots are cleary distorting the number and making the number less reliable (note it will never be perfect to start with). You may not want the playerbase to use IL as an indicator but they will; better make sure it is as accurate as possible.
In the end it's about providing players with a group that provides them with the best play experience. IL is a tool that helps in that sense, the better the accuracy the less chance a mismatch will happen and a player ends up with a bad experience (being kicked from a dungeon group for instance).
1
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
One of the reasons for building in a bigger range again is to have the flexibility that means any single item isn't contributing so much to the total that it's likely to create a situation where a player somehow manages to have an impressive item level, but said item level is reflective of *only* the wrong things.
It is statistically unlikely that someone is going to be running R12 utility enchants, but only R5s in their offense slots. It is statistically unlikely that someone is going to have 5 legendary companions but not a decent weapon enchant or mythic active artifact (which is also not a Catalogue). And if you do happen to run into someone who is at that extreme of a bell curve... it makes a good story to tell later.
You might think I'm being all carebear touchy-feely here about how people should act and treat each other, but actually... my position is also based on being totally ok with letting people set themselves up to fail through ignorance.
Item levels are a very broad generalizing way of judging someone on superficial appearances. While it's good to have some of these additional character investments accounted for, it's still only an automated tally.
(As a smart man said, "Have fun rebranding your private channels".)
My point of view is that it will reorganize player availabilities. nowaday, you see the looking for group chanel riidled with people taking a 'security margin' in relation to the IL requirement for a queue for a few reasons:
today's IL requirements are a bit low: sure you can finish dungeons if your just at the minimum requiremnt but it often means that the Average IL for the group is higher than the minimum requirement
since today's IL includes neither boons, companions or mounts, taking a margin allows to hope for a lot better efficiency that the margin indicates. Since you can't check boons for example you have to inflate the requirement to expect clearing the dungeon
After reaching a certain 'overIL' (rhymes with overkill) you don't need to go against the content, you just breez through saving time at the cost of enjoyability imo but when you run dungeons for grind, the quicker, the better.
What I hope is that with th IL a better estimation of a player potential (yes potential not actual prowess the difference is significant) the magins will be reassessed and instead of a +50% margin ( 3k+ for CN) we will see somethimg more like 25-30% margins ( 9k+ CN) allowing more people to play together
This could easily be a 2000 point drop in your item level for the rest of the fight. Does the dungeon kick you?
As others have pointed out, you will not be kicked out of a queue if your item level drops below the entry threshold, this has always been the case. The only change is that you may need to ensure your companion is summoned in order to queue, if it is what is pushing you over the entry requirement.
It is statistically unlikely that someone is going to be running R12 utility enchants, but only R5s in their offense slots. It is statistically unlikely that someone is going to have 5 legendary companions but not a decent weapon enchant or mythic active artifact (which is also not a Catalogue). And if you do happen to run into someone who is at that extreme of a bell curve... it makes a good story to tell later.
We discussed what to do with utility enchants, in the end as we were already increasing the overall contribution of equipment to item level vis-à-vis gems, and additionally adding item level to a number of new systems, we decided to leave them alone. As you point out, it's an unlikely for someone to run rank 12 utility enchants and low ranks everywhere else.
Generally, if a system can be exploited to get unintended results, it will be. However, as it would take a significant amount of effort to build rank 12 utility enchants, and that work could have just as easily been put into offense enchants, we're not concerned. We also believe that by the time you are starting to think about raising things to the highest ranks, you've had the opportunity to learn (at least to a basic degree) what things are most important for your character. In the end we did make some decisions so that, as some have pointed out, the item level system would remain relatively simple to understand.
Even if you were running rank 12 utility enchants with terrible items everywhere else, your relative item level would be so much lower than it would have been before the changes, because other systems are being taken into account.
Comments
Not sure I'd want to run him through there though
I wouldn't even feel super happy taking him through CN, even though the new GS for that is a mere 7600.
I foresee a lot of deaths in people's futures.
But yeah, I would cut the contribution from utility slots in half and double or triple the value that Bonding runestones give.
What annoys me is that the PvP boons contribute, and they absolutely do not help in PvE, and will give PvP players an unfair advantage - those the that PvP at lower levels and get the boons would be able to enter higher-level content earlier than pure PvE players.
Nitpick; a boon which gives 400 stat points gives 30 GS but an enchantment that gives 430 gives 58 GS. I understand that not all boons are created equal but some are more powerful than 400 stat points to balance those that aren't.
My main is 2810 on Live and 10665 on preview. So currently scrapes into SVA but under the new rules has access to everything.
I think I might buy up a few cheap purple companions. The bot masters will want them to boost GS.
So, thanks for your post. I think you raise excellent points.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
and my stance on solo players getting screwed also is still valid
my stance on there being tons of other items contributing to item level that were not counted ( previous post ) ..still valid
overall good changes the dual spec and items levels could use some tweaking tho ..
In addition, gear score did not consider abilities that were not raw stats. For instance if a unique piece of gear granted an effect that under certain conditions gave +10% damage dealt, that would not contribute to your gear score at all, yet that might represent a portion of the item's power. You could therefore have situations where the gear score granted by one item or boon would be lower than another item or boon that was clearly superior.
Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1229586/relic-gear-nerf-why/p1
Terramak suggested I point you to it, as it sounds like unintended stat changes as a result of the ilvl update.
I just checked the item data and nothing has changed to those items recently (other than the item level adjustments), so that's definitely what it is. We should be able to fix it before it goes live.
Well that, for lack of a better word, sucks. Good catch and very valid concern.
Il needs to consider equipped companions, whether summoned, not sommoned or "dead".
That said, it doesn't matter. You can go below the min ilvl once inside and it won't kick you or anything (just like you can take off your EF rez in FBI etc.). The check is only when you q to get in. (Literally verified this a moment ago too, for everyone's peace of mind)
Or....
There will be another piece of armor droping from spc master? Because the patch note said "this armor will give additional life steal when in a party and extra HP while out of it".
Thanks for establishing peace.
Any developer care to comment?
I asked for both of it , you come along.
This really is a 100% improvement, having options to run alternative builds and also get much better reflection of "the real IL".
About mount/Insignia, companion boni etc. I agree to the written above, everything mentioned so far.
A+ from my side.
Only thing ... utitlyty slots should be downgraded a bit. A Dragonhoard rank 12 doesn´t really do anything about your performance, same as +700 movement imo.
That said, just having mounts in your stable doesn't contribute to iLvl. The Mount Combat Power (if any), Mount Passive Power (if any), and all insignia slotted in the stable count. Idle/empty mounts in the stable do not.
But yes, 2x orange companions will give extra points. That's not the end of the world, it's a reasonable compromise to not make the system super complex yet represent player power a little better than today.
The goal is not to show how much effort a player has put into his character but to provide neutral other players an indication of how strong and effective that character potentially can be. Item level is meant to be a character performance indicator (CPI).
The player base uses item level as a potential performance indicator already, the zone spam for 3k+ edemo, Tiamat or 4k+ MSVA/FBI groups are proof enough of that.
1. Utility slots provide no additional performance to a character with maybe the exception of Darks who add a very little bit. As such they should add a minimal score to the IL or no score at all.
2. The first 7 powerpoints should add to the IL though as it does represent a higher potential output from a character. Level 4 passive powers, encounter powers and at-wills do make a significant difference.
The explanation in no way indicates that they would (only the bonuses from them, which you can only slot one at a time), and @trgluestickz already confirmed that stabled mounts add nothing.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
It's tragic, really.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Yes, they shouldn't. Yes, they should socialize before judging. Yes, they should try out a player before passing him/her based on the IL score. But reality of the matter is they don't. They want an indicator that tells them what they can expect and yes sometimes they will be let down and other times they'll be pleasantly surprised.
Legendary companions and utility slots are cleary distorting the number and making the number less reliable (note it will never be perfect to start with). You may not want the playerbase to use IL as an indicator but they will; better make sure it is as accurate as possible.
In the end it's about providing players with a group that provides them with the best play experience. IL is a tool that helps in that sense, the better the accuracy the less chance a mismatch will happen and a player ends up with a bad experience (being kicked from a dungeon group for instance).
It is statistically unlikely that someone is going to be running R12 utility enchants, but only R5s in their offense slots. It is statistically unlikely that someone is going to have 5 legendary companions but not a decent weapon enchant or mythic active artifact (which is also not a Catalogue). And if you do happen to run into someone who is at that extreme of a bell curve... it makes a good story to tell later.
You might think I'm being all carebear touchy-feely here about how people should act and treat each other, but actually... my position is also based on being totally ok with letting people set themselves up to fail through ignorance.
Item levels are a very broad generalizing way of judging someone on superficial appearances. While it's good to have some of these additional character investments accounted for, it's still only an automated tally.
(As a smart man said, "Have fun rebranding your private channels".)
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
nowaday, you see the looking for group chanel riidled with people taking a 'security margin' in relation to the IL requirement for a queue for a few reasons:
- today's IL requirements are a bit low: sure you can finish dungeons if your just at the minimum requiremnt but it often means that the Average IL for the group is higher than the minimum requirement
- since today's IL includes neither boons, companions or mounts, taking a margin allows to hope for a lot better efficiency that the margin indicates. Since you can't check boons for example you have to inflate the requirement to expect clearing the dungeon
- After reaching a certain 'overIL' (rhymes with overkill) you don't need to go against the content, you just breez through saving time at the cost of enjoyability imo but when you run dungeons for grind, the quicker, the better.
What I hope is that with th IL a better estimation of a player potential (yes potential not actual prowess the difference is significant) the magins will be reassessed and instead of a +50% margin ( 3k+ for CN) we will see somethimg more like 25-30% margins ( 9k+ CN) allowing more people to play togetherGenerally, if a system can be exploited to get unintended results, it will be. However, as it would take a significant amount of effort to build rank 12 utility enchants, and that work could have just as easily been put into offense enchants, we're not concerned. We also believe that by the time you are starting to think about raising things to the highest ranks, you've had the opportunity to learn (at least to a basic degree) what things are most important for your character. In the end we did make some decisions so that, as some have pointed out, the item level system would remain relatively simple to understand.
Even if you were running rank 12 utility enchants with terrible items everywhere else, your relative item level would be so much lower than it would have been before the changes, because other systems are being taken into account.