Offcial Feedback Thread: changes to Item Level system

adinosii

gorillalike said:

Giving people with passive legendary companions more IL? Seriously? *Facepalm* - Prokiller

Well, it doesn't matter if it is the summoned or not as long as you have just one...the issue is that you can artificially boost your IL by having multiple legendary companions, but that will not improve your stats in any way.

....which is why people are suggesing letting epic and legendary have the same value, + a single bonus for having at least one legendary.

santralafax

As someone suggested, I'll post changes to my character: was 4.1k IL on live, now 13.8k IL on preview. I'm in a level 20 guild with max boons, to the best of my knowledge.

I'm curious, since I sold off all my R12 utility enchants for additional WE's, what my IL would have been at 4.36. Utility enchants should have IL halved, as they don't directly effect power of a character.

adinosii

santralafax said:

As someone suggested, I'll post changes to my character: was 4.1k IL on live, now 13.4k IL on preview.

Was 4.1 on Life, 14.8 on Preview, but that includes a level 17 guild (Guild on live is 18, so I would be slightly higher there).Note that I have all boons, all-purple insignia and 2 legendary companions (long story).

hastati96

adinosii said:

santralafax said:

As someone suggested, I'll post changes to my character: was 4.1k IL on live, now 13.4k IL on preview.

Was 4.1 on Life, 14.8 on Preview, but that includes a level 17 guild (Guild on live is 18, so I would be slightly higher there).Note that I have all boons, all-purple insignia and 2 legendary companions (long story).

I was 4.3k on live server. On Preview it was 16002 (with guildboons, 5x legendary companion). I think I was able to reach almost the max, just missing some epic insignias.

santralafax

I wonder why my numbers seem so low compared to Adinosii at same ILevel. Perhaps my guild isn't on Preview? I include all the same features he mentions. Will have to study new ILevel system some more.

Edit: My Guild Boons aren't available on Preview. Also, some mounts in active only have 2 slots.

hastati96

santralafax said:

I wonder why my numbers seem so low compared to Adinosii at same ILevel. Perhaps my guild isn't on Preview? I include all the same features he mentions. Will have to study new ILevel system some more.

Guildboons (Lvl 10 building) give you 3x 500 ilvl for a total of 1500 ilvl so it can be a huge difference.

santralafax

hastati96 said:

santralafax said:

I wonder why my numbers seem so low compared to Adinosii at same ILevel. Perhaps my guild isn't on Preview? I include all the same features he mentions. Will have to study new ILevel system some more.

Guildboons (Lvl 10 building) give you 3x 500 ilvl for a total of 1500 ilvl so it can be a huge difference.

In that case would be 15.3k on Live,

adincrit

You are increasing the item level required to get into content then right? Because if you increase the ammout of things contributing to ilvl theres going to be alot of undergeared people who are trying to run end game... this might not sound too bad to you people on pc but i allrdy have to deal with 32-3300 players who do not have a clue what they are doing (with their build) but think they can run msva and now what 2800's will be able to get in because all their boons and mounts n HAMSTER count too? You want us to have to police the item level ourselves and have a heap of players who think they should be able to run msva getting ignored and thinking everyones being "item level elitist" when really they are straight up not ready for msva regardless of this stupid new item level idea...

rickcase276

I am 3.483k ilevel on live and 12.660k on preview after the changes. This is without any guild boons, and mostly purple insignias, etc.

kalina311

@rgutscheradev said

"One other thing worth mentioning: the new queue values in the above chart were calculated WITHOUT counting guild boons."

we should still to be able to see this as another stat regardless (total effective item level independent of what dungeon you can get you into... guild boons must count as another stat or maybe list the players guild level

are you are giving us a hint that you are planning on balancing pvp by stripping away guild boons therefore without the need for calculating it in item level eles AGAIN DENY PVP PLAYERs BASIC FAIR BALANCED MATCHES BY OBFUSCATING true ITEM LEVEL ( THE ORIGINAL PROBLEM YOU ARE TRYING TO FIX ) how can you have fair balanced matches/ dungeons if the system is not aware of this guild boon discrepancy that you do not want to include in calculations?


@ other people in this thread you keep reporting you are in level 20 guild and your new item level is blah blah when the dev said guild boons are not being calculated in item level !! so Which is it


ARE GUILD BOONS GONNA BE PART OF ITEM LEVEL OR NOT ??OR A SEPARATE STAT ?

santralafax

kalina311 said:

@ other people in this thread you keep reporting you are in level 20 guild and your new item level is blah blah when the dev said guild boons are not being calculated in item level !! so Which is it

Guild boons count @ 50 x boon level. At least, that's how I read it.

sobac

This is a good start I still dislike seeing an epic item with 405 ilvl or something like that, and an legend item with "only" 420, which has (in case of belts/necks for example) almost twice stats as much. This, OTOH, will benefit me because all my toons have them at lvl 35/epic. Thanks to these changes, in new mod i MIGHT be able to get into FBI/mSVA (in live i have less than 3k)

thefiresidecat

agree with all the people who say that only one leg companion should count as it really doesn't do anything for you after that stats wise. also utility slots shouldnt count for as much as offense and defense slots.

but as a whole I find this exciting. when will it go live? when will the consoles get this?

adinosii

thefiresidecat said:

but as a whole I find this exciting. when will it go live? when will the consoles get this?

They have not announced anything yet, but my personal bet is either on April 25th or May 2nd, based on current status, past experience and the way the calendar looks.

As for consoles, there will probably be a similar delay as they have with Mod 11.

rayrdan

my item level is strangly low for a 4.2k hr... dunno could it be because i wear pvp gear? (about 11.5k with 5 purple companions / 5 purple mounts / full purple insignas)

thefiresidecat

adinosii said:

thefiresidecat said:

but as a whole I find this exciting. when will it go live? when will the consoles get this?

They have not announced anything yet, but my personal bet is either on April 25th or May 2nd, based on current status, past experience and the way the calendar looks.

As for consoles, there will probably be a similar delay as they have with Mod 11.

there have been times when we got updates without a huge delay from when you guys got it. I have my fingers x'd!

thefabricant

For those curious the max Ilvl should be somewhere slightly over 16000.

Here is my toon:


I am missing:

Guild Boons (2000 ilvl.)
4x legendary companions: 400 ilvl
All RD boons (30x4 ilvl.)
All pvp boons (? ilvl, don't know how many of them there are that is how much I care about pvp.)
Last 2 boons SKT: 60 ilvl
Neck, 2x ring, Belt reinforcement kit: 140 ilvl
6x purple sigs, 60 ilvl.

This adds up to somewhere between 16k and 17k ilvl.

Feedback: New ilvl System.

It is an improvement however I think the following areas could use improvements:

1) Utility Slots should not add to ilvl.
2) You should only gain an ilvl bonus for a single legendary pet.
3) Bondings/Augments should act as a multiplier on the ilvl of the gear on the pet. For example, if you have an augment summoned, you should gain 1x the ilvl on the gear. If you have a bonding pet summoned with 3x R12 bondings, you should gain 2.85 times the ilvl of the gear on the pet. If you have an augment with bondings, the fact that the pet is an augment should override the 2.85 and instead act as 1x the ilvl. This reflects the behavior of augments and bonding pets better in ilvl.



Other than that, I will still pretty much ignore the system other than going to the effort to meet the minimum requirements for dungeons.

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thefiresidecat

the multiplier is assuming you have all the stuff that a toon of that rank commonly has. toons with average accouterments will be that ilvl and toons without that will lose the ilvl. this is why they're doing it. to more accurately assess a toons power/effectiveness.

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thefiresidecat

it might be too complicated to change the utility slots because I think the ilvl addition is probably by item not by slot and a lot of those items can be used in all the slots instead of just utility and it would be unfair if lets say darks counted but quartermasters did not. a lot of people would feel forced to use the darks instead of qm then. (just a guess as to why they might not have done that)

treesclimber

IL coming from guild boons will make me have to find a guild but i totally agree it should count to IL, it's a colosal weight.

About insignias (my pc went capush so no preview atm) can anyone tell me if that 100 from active mount is relative to the mounts sloted or the legendary mount call?

Also i agree with @thefabricant, the utility slots should have no IL associated, the only relevant ones for either pvp and pve are speed ones but it's better to ignore thise than make all others significative, this would imply lowering the entry IL by around 400 for endgame content and around 200 for starter lvl 70 content, i don't think it would have huge impact in economy as well since fey/dragons/qm are used by the majority of the players not with IL raise intention but because they are awesome hoarders.

thefiresidecat

if they don't change the leg mounts thing they should make it so it actually adds value to have more than one at legendary.

masteroga

Didn't check all posts to see if mentioned, but why is a green insignia worth 40 and purple 60? It's 4x the stats, should be much higher.

Also, couldn't tell if having 2x orange mounts was counting (snail for active, lion for Combat ability). Will functionally identical legacy give same as legendary?

mousebreaker85

I am a little confused about this ....
So if I have 1 legendary companion and 4 epic if I spend another 4 million AD to put them all at legendary I get more item level even though it in no way boosts anything .
Then my one legendary mount and 4 3slot passives I spend a bunch of zen and buy all epic mounts even though again it will be the same insignias and bonuses and will not improve my character strength 1 millistat I will also get an added 500 there also?
And this is a big improvement over the non indicative gear scores now .. how?

beckylunatic

kalina311 said:

"One other thing worth mentioning: the new queue values in the above chart were calculated WITHOUT counting guild boons."

ARE GUILD BOONS GONNA BE PART OF ITEM LEVEL OR NOT ??OR A SEPARATE STAT ?

Queue values. They balanced the queue values against players without any guild boons.

beckylunatic

rgutscheradev said:

Mount Active 100
Mount Passive (Pur) 250
Mount Passive (Orng) 500
Insignia (Green) 40
Insignia (Blue) 50
Insignia (Purple) 60

This appears to be confusing people a fair bit.

There is no bonus for which mounts your insignias are slotted into.

Mount "active" is the combat power. If you have no orange mount, no points for you.

Mount "passive" is the equipment power. Depending what you've got slotted, you may have 250 or 500 points from this, or nothing at all if you don't have an epic mount. (Slight discrepancy assuming the system cannot recognize a "legacy" epic.)

I'll be a dissenting voice and say that I think keeping the insignia values somewhat close together across qualities makes sense. A huge amount of the power from insignias is the bonuses themselves, and the bonuses don't work worse if you're only using greens.

Generally speaking, I think the system has a lot of potential. It can't be perfect, but it is trying to account for factors that were left out of the old gear score values too (even though the numbers look close), because it's not just measuring your stats.

trgluestickz

I'm glad the item level system is finally getting changed, it was sorely needed since a lot of content is gated. I do however see some problems here:

This first problem is not a problem with the preview server draft itself but rather the draft presented here on this thread:

The draft you have here on the forums seems to have confused people when it comes to mount item level increases, it makes it look like the rarity of your mount itself counts towards IL but this is not the case. I just went to preview server and the quality of your mount stat bonus, the quality of the insignias you have equipped, and your mount combat power if you have one are the only mount related things counting towards IL. I would correct the forum draft so it matches what's on preview to aviod anymore confusion.

The rest of these problems are with the preview server draft itself:

Slotting multaple orange companions should NOT increase IL. Having 5 passive orange companions instead of 4 purples and 1 orange makes 0 difference to your stats. Make it so only 1 orange companion slotted has any effect on IL and any additional orange companions you add grant the same IL that purple companions do.

Bonding runestones are a gargantuan improvment to your stats in PVE and should count for more points apeice than they currently do.

Enchantments placed into utility slots should provide less IL than enchantments placed into offensive and defensive slots. I would recommend making it so enchantments in utility slots only grant half the IL that ones placed into offensive and defensive slots do.

I would recommend creating a second item level that is listed right below your normal one. This second item level should count only things that work in pvp and exclude companion stuff and anything else that is PVE only. Likewise, the pvp boons and anything else that only applies to pvp should not count towards your regular/PVE IL. Only your PVP item level should apply to PVP match making and only your PVE item level should apply to meeting IL requirements in PVE.

trgluestickz

beckylunatic said:

rgutscheradev said:

Mount Active 100
Mount Passive (Pur) 250
Mount Passive (Orng) 500
Insignia (Green) 40
Insignia (Blue) 50
Insignia (Purple) 60

This appears to be confusing people a fair bit.

There is no bonus for which mounts your insignias are slotted into.

Mount "active" is the combat power. If you have no orange mount, no points for you.

Mount "passive" is the equipment power. Depending what you've got slotted, you may have 250 or 500 points from this, or nothing at all if you don't have an epic mount. (Slight discrepancy assuming the system cannot recognize a "legacy" epic.)

I'll be a dissenting voice and say that I think keeping the insignia values somewhat close together across qualities makes sense. A huge amount of the power from insignias is the bonuses themselves, and the bonuses don't work worse if you're only using greens.

Generally speaking, I think the system has a lot of potential. It can't be perfect, but it is trying to account for factors that were left out of the old gear score values too (even though the numbers look close), because it's not just measuring your stats.

The mount system does recognize legacy mounts. I have 2 legacy mounts and 2 orange mounts and the 4k stat bonuses are all 500 points.

The only exception appears to be the ones for movement which grant no increase to your item level. @rgutscheradev , I recommend changing this so that movement stat bonuses for mounts do grant increases to your item level. The reason being is movement speed is actually a useful stat for some builds in PVP, namely for GWF speed builds and one of the less common TR builds.

trgluestickz

thefabricant said:

For those curious the max Ilvl should be somewhere slightly over 16000.

Here is my toon:


I am missing:

Guild Boons (2000 ilvl.)
4x legendary companions: 400 ilvl
All RD boons (30x4 ilvl.)
All pvp boons (? ilvl, don't know how many of them there are that is how much I care about pvp.)
Last 2 boons SKT: 60 ilvl
Neck, 2x ring, Belt reinforcement kit: 140 ilvl
6x purple sigs, 60 ilvl.

This adds up to somewhere between 16k and 17k ilvl.

Feedback: New ilvl System.

It is an improvement however I think the following areas could use improvements:

1) Utility Slots should not add to ilvl.
2) You should only gain an ilvl bonus for a single legendary pet.
3) Bondings/Augments should act as a multiplier on the ilvl of the gear on the pet. For example, if you have an augment summoned, you should gain 1x the ilvl on the gear. If you have a bonding pet summoned with 3x R12 bondings, you should gain 2.85 times the ilvl of the gear on the pet. If you have an augment with bondings, the fact that the pet is an augment should override the 2.85 and instead act as 1x the ilvl. This reflects the behavior of augments and bonding pets better in ilvl.



Other than that, I will still pretty much ignore the system other than going to the effort to meet the minimum requirements for dungeons.

Utility slots should still count towards item level, they just should not count as much towards your item level as offense and defense slots do. The aim of this change is to make it so anything that improves your character now counts towards your item level, utility slots are an improvement and should count for something. I would sugest making it so utility slot enchantments only provide half the item level that the same enchantments in offense and defense slots do.