Feedback is not being ignored, we just aren't playing whack-a-mole with responses. We're collecting everything, filtering through it (because there's a lot of hamsters and some pretty unproductive commentary among the valuable information), and then we have to see what the next steps are. Asking for feedback doesn't mean immediate incorporation but it also doesn't mean we are disregarding it.
Would you mind following up with the dev team if we will or will not be getting the loot tables / Misc items list posted with the drop chances? with much respect it should not take a week to make a yes or no call and communicate it back to the player base.
Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger Guild Founder: -HunterS-
my concern is getting the superior marks needed for the relic weapons, ive only got 3 in 60-70 runs. what am i suppose to do with not being about the look in the chest and still get the purple and blue marks ? throw them away ? You should make a vender so that if you get a unhealthy amount of purple and blue marks and no superior marks you can atleast trade them in. Most of my guild have their relic weapons at legendary but they are not that happy with, it seeing on how much $$ and time they spent getting them that way. Msva needs to have a good looking at on how you can still implement the key changes but also get the stuff you want/need to progress.
I agree with many of the posts here. As a player who only started this summer I have to say the changes don't sound promising and my entire guild and alliance feel the same. We're all a bit worried about this update...
Why run all these dungeons and end game stuff if it's not worth the key? I want to say as politely as I can, but everyone feels as though we're being pushed closer and closer to pay to play.
No one minds spending money when they want to, we happily spend our money, buying things we really want... however when we start to feel as if we have to spend money, like we're being forced, our pockets start to feel much tighter...
I suggest if you must have keys consumed upon opening the chest, do so only with epic dungeon keys but not the legendary dragon keys... we pay real money for those, we should be able to choose if we want the reward in those chests at least.
And to echo what many have said, if greater demonic keys will be consumed and we're getting +1 rings still, we should get a decrease in the amount of time it takes to make one. An entire day to get a +1 ring that only salvages for 2k is not worth it.
Or worse the legendary keys... 300 Zen is worth upwards of 100k AD... to open 5 chests and end up with 10k AD from salvage garbage is a terrible terrible exchange rate. Even if you happen to get all epic armor it's still only 35k AD at best using up all five keys... it makes it seem not worth buying them at all. Especially with chances for the better items being so low.
I can say for myself I am skeptical of spending any more on this game than I already have due to the changes and I think many others feel the same. I can't really say until I've ran a few dungeons and such post change, but my initial reaction is that I don't like this new system. I hope we see some compromise and some input from the players more seriously considered and implemented.
Changes and SVH I did the math with my RNG luck and current drop rates I would have to spent ~40 kk AD in keys for my legendary weapon set (each char). With 5 x better drop rate it would 'just' be 4 kk AD for keys. Add the cost in time/AD for vonin blood, lanolin etc. and this will make ppl stop playing, period. I would have the AD to spent for the keys, but comparing the time or money you have to invest for 40 kk AD and the 'reward' (legendary weapons you will refine in half a year) I dont think, that this changes will go well with the players
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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krasensilverMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 27Arc User
never seen a company so passionate to lose own customers
if all of these items are BOA then allows us to salvage these items for ASTRAL DIAMONDS not RAD. For a rate of green = 1,000AD blue = 5,000AD and Purple = 10,000AD
this would give players some incentive to run these dungeons after they have acquired most of the good from the dungeons.
i lost count, but im somewhere between 200 and 300 msva completions, and still short of 4 marks to complete the set. mk said, that sva already contains the "improved" lootsystem, so it doesnt matter, if its 200 or 300 runs. either way, removing the peak function is an insult towards the players.
i was unhappy, that i couldnt extend my vip, but when reading this, it was probably better, that i ran out of zen back then.
just add another seal vendor and seal type that sells all the new items added in these chests as well. Give us 10 seals for every boss downed and 50 seals for every chest opened. Make items received from dungeon chests BoE and make items bought from the vendor BOA. /thread
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I guess the overall frustration I'm seeing here is the feeling that the key system creates a "pay to play" mentality. When you enter a dungeon, if you want loot, you have to exchange something that has a cost attached to it, the key. And the results from "purchasing" the right to get loot often times feels like it's not worth the cost.
So again, I wholeheartedly ask...what's the freaking obsession with keys, and how is that healthy for the game?
Why do you need to attach an inherent "cost" to getting loot. It just feels so punitive at this point.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
I guess the overall frustration I'm seeing here is the feeling that the key system creates a "pay to play" mentality. When you enter a dungeon, if you want loot, you have to exchange something that has a cost attached to it, the key. And the results from "purchasing" the right to get loot often times feels like it's not worth the cost.
So again, I wholeheartedly ask...what's the freaking obsession with keys, and how is that healthy for the game?
Why do you need to attach an inherent "cost" to getting loot. It just feels so punitive at this point.
I would say we need Dungeon Delve event again I think this whole issue would 90% go away or may be 70%
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
If the devs and management did a proper job at making the zen store robust we wouldn't be in this lazy key issue. Shortcuts, they're merely just making frustrated players pay for shortcuts.
I like that you are trying to make changes for the better. As I read the responses I think they all sort of sound like, if you are going to force me to use a key, please let me sell the loot.
Personally my toons are in good shape, I don't need another companion, another mount nor an artifact that is bound to my account unless it is BiS and legendary. What I need are ways to make AD through salvage or sales and a rank 8 enchant is marginal in my opinion as a reward from a dungeon that ultimately cost me a fair amount of time and money to build a character than can do the content, unlock and learn the content, and run the content.
Right now I don't mind the RNG too much on the chests, but it does not take my key, so that is the difference. If you are taking my key, the loot needs to be able to replace my key and something for the effort or there will be no reason to make the effort. I counted up my keys this weekend. My main character has over 1000 unused epic keys as the loot in the chests are not really of interest to me.
There was another forum post with dozens of pages of suggestions on what types of things would be better. I am sure it is a huge task to reread all of that post as well, but there were some great ideas there.
TR - Sun: 16000 IL OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
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viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
edited January 2017
To make campaign keys now you need:
For Malabog's Castle need to a weekly for 100 Sparks. For Gold Crescent need to do daily for 10 of them and 10 other daily to get 10 more. Or buy Fomorian Concoction for about 7500 AD Per 100 But stuff from that chest isn't worth 7500ad So you need to do all this then wait 20h to get that key
For Greater Demonic Key you need 300 Faerzress To get those is to do x2 Normal Demogorgon and get Gold Or do x2 Epic Demogorgon with Gold rank Then 20h to wait so you can open chest tomorrow
Same goes if you want to open Castle Never chest as well you need x4 Ndemo or x3 Edemo so you can open 1 Edemo chest today and 1 Castle Never chest tomorrow
To make key for Valindra's Tower you need 15 Vanguard Scrip and 5 Thayan Scroll To get this need x3 dailes = 9 script and daily lair – 2 or 3 script and you fall short still. So if you don't buy Onyx Fragments need to wait another day for dailys do start 1 key and open chest on third day
To make Keys for Kessel's Retreat need 3 Dwarfen Gold, 3 Auril's Tear 10 Coins Fot that need to do Denon Hunting daily or Needless Distractions for 10 coins And all Icewind Pass and Dwarfen Valley dailys to get enough to make 1 key then open chest next day
To make Elol and Esot keys need: Esot = 4 Cult Secret 4 Dragon Sigil 20 Dragon Hoard Coins Elol = 6 Cult Secret 6 Dragon Sigil 30 Dragon Hoard Coins
Common Cause gives 1 Dragon Sigil for daily mini-dungeon Culling the Cultists – 1 Cult Secret Neverdeath grave yard = 2 Cult Secrets Ice Spire Peaks = 2 Cult Secrets Rothe Valley = 2 Dragon Sigil Whispering Caverns = 2 Dragon Sigil
Total 5 Sigils and 5 Cult Secrets So we fall short here and need to to go to Well of Dragons to do dailys here too I won't list those here but they gives usually 2 cult secrets , 2 Dragon Sigils or 1 of each including Fallen Dragon Fang
So Dragon timer is 19mins And we need to wait average 15 for each of the 4 dragons That is 1h just to kill dragons Add riding to the place and other things I have done this myself it is about 2h work for everything Could be more also
To make Dragon Queen's Key – need 2 Fallen Dragon Fang and Dragon Hoard Coins 20 Coins. This needs you to do Well of Dragons weekly and dailys if you want 1 key a day for Tiamat
So you need like 1 full day or even 2 days just to do all those places to make 1 key for tomorrow This is my suggestion: 1 – Reduce amount of campaign goods needed for a key. Like Greater demonic key to make 1 for 50-100 Faerzress and 1h or 2h each one Elol/Esot keys from 4/4 to 1/1 and from 6/6 to 2/2 and same time frame This excludes 5 Gold you need per key generally
Here are some of my screen shots from Castle Never Chests I never seen Orcus Shard Those Screen shots of the best chests I gave gotten so far in Castle Never And to get those I peeked in may be 9-10 times before using key for those
Also to simmer down on the grinding of dailies to make keys allow us to turn in those "insignia's" for campaign currency. Maybe 50 for minor one and 100 for a major campaign one?
It took me a year of farming ELoL to get a Horn drop. In that time, every other member of my party had gotten at least one (one got two, another, three, and another got seven). I got mine during the discussion about fixing it, which they did a couple of weeks later. It never felt good getting that drop.
My spouse farmed tirelessly for legendary rings. Has still has never had one drop. He's given up.
The joke about running CN is we need to get our daily +1 ring. We've never seen the Shard. (Currently listed ~4.8M AD. Prohibitively high.)
I currently don't use my keys the majority of the time because the rewards aren't worth it. The feel-good sentiment at the end of a dungeon is "at least I save a key!", because it means less grinding to make another.
Back in the day, a mod would be released, I'd work to get the new shinies and be ready for the next. It was fun. Now it feels like I'm still working on mods not just released last year but on one from 2015. By the time I get stuff, it runs the risk of not being relevent anymore.
Similarly to what another poster said, my trust in this company has eroded. It always tries to make bad stuff sound good. Getting a key/misc bag sounds great, until you realise they're also adding a ton of stuff to the loot tables, which mean all that space freed up (and more besides) just got taken up.
For people to feel motivated to play, there have to be goals, they have to be realistic, achievable and in a timely manner. (Working toward 40 twisted ichor was far more satisfying then depending on RNG drops in MSVA.) Unmovtivated people simply wander away to do something else.
But, ugh, whatever. These aren't new ideas. The player-base has come up with some fantastic ideas, which, for whatever reasons haven't being considered. The power-that-be favour a more punitive style of managment and that's their perogative. I have hope things will change for the better, but zero expectation they will.
What's the point of adding more companions to the game if they lose all functionality after level 35 content? Running level 73 content with a combat companion at Legendary (40) and he dies very quickly, most times instantly, and does a whopping 400 damage every 2-8 seconds. Controller Companions? I think not. Augments as alternative? Why would anyone do that? 3 rank 7 bondings in a Combat Companion already renders augments useless.
You're trying to balance classes around a broken system. Bonding Stones are the problem. You are only seeing game breaking class features because players are able to buff themselves through what is essentially a glorified augment companion. All of the companion abilities and powers are nothing more than Companions Gift procc'ing variables. The effort and detail in creating Meteor Strike on companion is meaningless if it does 800 damage to a spiderlings that has a million hit points. So taking a companion that has a really cool power but has really long cool downs is pointless. You also now have half a dozen runestones that are worth nothing more than Refinement. No one is slotting an Eldrytch Runestone Rank 12 in a companion...ever. No one is buying a Black Dragon Ion stone from the Zen market..ever.
My suggestion:
Making Bondings work in reverse. - Companion gets X% of players stats. This would fix both the power creep and the companion scaling in one fix. All combat companions would run equal to their player companion making everything from healer, striker, controller, and leader/defender a viable option. This would also bring back Ion Stones/Augments for players who don't care about sharing their stats and just want to push their own ability to higher levels. Both would be equal in the end. You've now brought all aspects of the companion system back to present content and made them all viable, while balancing the growing issue with over powered class balancing.
This would create an entirely new aspect to running dungeons. A 5 man super group would turn into a 10 man raid. For PuGs this is even better! If you don't get a tank, someone brings out a tank companion and fills that roll. No controller, break out a Control companion. Instead of 5 players running around with 170k power why not 10 players running around at 30k? The combination of class roles to companion roles are endless. It would breathe new life into an otherwise neglected aspect of the game that's long over due for some attention. Please think about this as an alternative to nerfs and class fixes in an attempt to balance classes.
Ladies and Gents we are fighting a losing battle here. If you are posting to vent and make yourself feel better then more power to you.. but they are not going to change the roll out. This is a financial move for the company plain and simple and they are betting that the truly dedicated and faithful will continue to stick around. Lets all face the facts that this is a sinking ship and we are but a few people who have stuck around to see if she actually goes under. We are posting to nowhere/no one on this forum and as history has CLEARLY shown, they don't listen to their customers. If they gave a hoot about this product and our happiness then they would be fixing the 3 year old bugs, correcting the completely misleading/wrong tool tips and bringing back the old dungeons that everyone has asked for. My question to all of you is why are we posting endlessly and complaining about the same things over and over instead of finding something different to do?
What's the point of adding more companions to the game if they lose all functionality after level 35 content? Running level 73 content with a combat companion at Legendary (40) and he dies very quickly, most times instantly, and does a whopping 400 damage every 2-8 seconds. Controller Companions? I think not. Augments as alternative? Why would anyone do that? 3 rank 7 bondings in a Combat Companion already renders augments useless.
You're trying to balance classes around a broken system. Bonding Stones are the problem. You are only seeing game breaking class features because players are able to buff themselves through what is essentially a glorified augment companion. All of the companion abilities and powers are nothing more than Companions Gift procc'ing variables. The effort and detail in creating Meteor Strike on companion is meaningless if it does 800 damage to a spiderlings that has a million hit points. So taking a companion that has a really cool power but has really long cool downs is pointless. You also now have half a dozen runestones that are worth nothing more than Refinement. No one is slotting an Eldrytch Runestone Rank 12 in a companion...ever. No one is buying a Black Dragon Ion stone from the Zen market..ever.
My suggestion:
Making Bondings work in reverse. - Companion gets X% of players stats. This would fix both the power creep and the companion scaling in one fix. All combat companions would run equal to their player companion making everything from healer, striker, controller, and leader/defender a viable option. This would also bring back Ion Stones/Augments for players who don't care about sharing their stats and just want to push their own ability to higher levels. Both would be equal in the end. You've now brought all aspects of the companion system back to present content and made them all viable, while balancing the growing issue with over powered class balancing. This would create an entirely new aspect to running dungeons. A 5 man super group would turn into a 10 man raid. For PuGs this is even better! If you don't get a tank, someone brings out a tank companion and fills that roll. No controller, break out a Control companion. Instead of 5 players running around with 170k power why not 10 players running around at 30k? The combination of class roles to companion roles are endless. It would breathe new life into an otherwise neglected aspect of the game that's long over due for some attention. Please think about this as an alternative to nerfs and class fixes in an attempt to balance classes.
This would require a massive rework of all the classes to ensure people aren't excluded from dungeon runs. It's not going to happen. It also won't make much difference. No matter how you tinker with things people will gravitate towards a few options anyways. Something will always be subpar and you're basically suggesting that Cryptic pull another mod 6.
Ladies and Gents we are fighting a losing battle here. If you are posting to vent and make yourself feel better then more power to you.. but they are not going to change the roll out. This is a financial move for the company plain and simple and they are betting that the truly dedicated and faithful will continue to stick around. Lets all face the facts that this is a sinking ship and we are but a few people who have stuck around to see if she actually goes under. We are posting to nowhere/no one on this forum and as history has CLEARLY shown, they don't listen to their customers. If they gave a hoot about this product and our happiness then they would be fixing the 3 year old bugs, correcting the completely misleading/wrong tool tips and bringing back the old dungeons that everyone has asked for. My question to all of you is why are we posting endlessly and complaining about the same things over and over instead of finding something different to do?
I mean we've got people pissed the devs aren't posting on weekends. It's been all of six days since they posted the preview build and we've seen all of two dev posts. This will go through multiple builds and at least a month before it hits live. So if we hit February and they've done nothing, sure, you're right. But everyone is pulling a temper tantrum without considering that they might make revisions.
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lordseth1985Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 319Arc User
What's the point of adding more companions to the game if they lose all functionality after level 35 content? Running level 73 content with a combat companion at Legendary (40) and he dies very quickly, most times instantly, and does a whopping 400 damage every 2-8 seconds. Controller Companions? I think not. Augments as alternative? Why would anyone do that? 3 rank 7 bondings in a Combat Companion already renders augments useless.
You're trying to balance classes around a broken system. Bonding Stones are the problem. You are only seeing game breaking class features because players are able to buff themselves through what is essentially a glorified augment companion. All of the companion abilities and powers are nothing more than Companions Gift procc'ing variables. The effort and detail in creating Meteor Strike on companion is meaningless if it does 800 damage to a spiderlings that has a million hit points. So taking a companion that has a really cool power but has really long cool downs is pointless. You also now have half a dozen runestones that are worth nothing more than Refinement. No one is slotting an Eldrytch Runestone Rank 12 in a companion...ever. No one is buying a Black Dragon Ion stone from the Zen market..ever.
My suggestion:
Making Bondings work in reverse. - Companion gets X% of players stats. This would fix both the power creep and the companion scaling in one fix. All combat companions would run equal to their player companion making everything from healer, striker, controller, and leader/defender a viable option. This would also bring back Ion Stones/Augments for players who don't care about sharing their stats and just want to push their own ability to higher levels. Both would be equal in the end. You've now brought all aspects of the companion system back to present content and made them all viable, while balancing the growing issue with over powered class balancing.
This would create an entirely new aspect to running dungeons. A 5 man super group would turn into a 10 man raid. For PuGs this is even better! If you don't get a tank, someone brings out a tank companion and fills that roll. No controller, break out a Control companion. Instead of 5 players running around with 170k power why not 10 players running around at 30k? The combination of class roles to companion roles are endless. It would breathe new life into an otherwise neglected aspect of the game that's long over due for some attention. Please think about this as an alternative to nerfs and class fixes in an attempt to balance classes.
That suggestion seems nice but... Every player that bought and/or refined their bonding stones to rank 12 wil not allow that. It's been a long time since every player wanna be a dps'er, even tankers and healers are chasing the paingiver title...
Avestruz.Q.T.Seduz - Rogue, natural born assassin.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
No one is slotting an Eldrytch Runestone Rank 12 in a companion...ever. No one is buying a Black Dragon Ion stone from the Zen market..ever.
Rank 12 would be an outlying case, but there most assuredly are still players using augments and runestones that are not-bonding. The fact that these are suboptimal choices doesn't prevent people from using them due to personal preference or lack of (current) information.
Every player that bought and/or refined their bonding stones to rank 12 wil not allow that.
Hahaha, if they decide they need to further change how bonding works (and this has already been stated to be under review), players will scream and cry and the change will go ahead anyway, maybe with some compensation, maybe not. Lostmauth fix happened. Removal of level 60 set bonuses happened. Invest in whatever you want, but all of it is open to be changed at any time.
The whole problem with dungeons started with CN and Demogorgon which you copy/pasted into FBI and SVA.
That problem is making the loot a chance of a chance.
First we got Demogorgon and you said there is a (initially an impossible) chance of getting a +4/+5 ring...which is fine..but you the made it so that it's another (impossible) chance to get the one we want. Same thing is in CN, FBI and SVA.
That alone is the cause of our problems, but with this change you are going a step further. You will gate that chance of a chance behind a key that will be used up. So not just that we will not get what we are trying to get, you will give us ONE chance of a chance per day if we are F2P and infinite chances of a chance if we buy the keys.
If we wanted that don't you think we would rather buy lockbox keys?
You made a game that managed to pry me away from GTA which I was hopelessly stuck on for the longest time.
I've had a lot of fun the last few months hanging with fellow GTA defectors and building a CW to 2875 IL and am pretty much at near endgame BiS gear - just need to upgrade enchants and bondings as well as a few +5 rings which haven't dropped as of yet. Oh well - I'll just continue as I am - keep hitting those dungeons/skirmishes as I have been and checking chests and hold on to my precious keys until the rings I want finally drop.
Oh - but wait....when this change goes through....I'm going to be robbed of that choice and forced to take the ABSOLUTE GARBAGE I usually pass on since the current drop-rate is utterly abysmal! 10x more chance or whatever fancy stat you try to dress it up with is meaningless unless we know the real number - which you're being dodgy about.
So if I want to farm dungeons/skirmishes for good loot - I'm gonna have to pay for another key(s). Kinda makes me wonder why I'm continuing to bother upgrading the CW through refining/upgrading enchants and bondings to get that extra DPS oomph that would help the crew get through a bit better. BTW - THAT process is proving to be a boring grind and quite costly given the rarity of Bonding stones and Potency marks - except on the AH.
So what does that leave me if I decide not to bother with the chests and not buy keys...salvageable items that might drop? Sure that's great and all - but are you going to remove that silly 36k per day restriction then? You see - I have over 600k rough AD saved up which might be useful to me right now to outlay for these resources I need to upgrade - but I can only have 36k. Its like my bank withholding my wages that my workplace has direct deposited into my account. So that argument is out the window
Oh wait - rare items I can sell on the AH? Oh - but Dang Nabit - you guys are going to make that Character/Account bound so that we can't - so that the AH doesn't get flooded with the item and it doesn't get devalued. Cause we all know - once too many people get a hold of something - at least one fool is going to put it for super-low and that start the domino effect of devaluation, right? Much as I despise people who do that - I understand it....cause they could have millions in rough AD but since Daddy Cryptic says we can only have 36k of that each day - those people are desperate and will put things super low for a quicker sale. Makes you wonder if said person would do the same if they had access to all the AD they earned legit.....
The more I think about it - the more I realize how much grinding Im doing for a "chance" at something. This change only seems to exacerbate that and is nothing but a nickel and dime slow juicing of us and our hard earned real $.
GTA is starting to seem more attractive again. At least there....I do something....I get paid.....and I can use that currency (ALL OF IT - ITS NOT HELD BACK LIKE AN ALLOWANCE) to buy what I want...anything I want....provided I can meet the price. Wish that could be done here but a lot is dependent on RNG - even of currency you get (like Trade Bars) to buy cool things.
Those that are complaining about Cambion Magus and Sgt. Knox (supposedly) being on the loot-table needs to understand that there are currently three platforms running Neverwinter, and most promos have never been available on two of them...
Yes, they will lose value, but if I understood it correctly, the dropped companions will be BtA, and you can keep posting them on the AH for 90 million to show them off...
And for the love of Tymora, please let us exchange +5 rings to the one we want, getting a Ring of Vanishing Presence +5 is a cruel joke...
Oh wait - rare items I can sell on the AH? Oh - but Dang Nabit - you guys are going to make that Character/Account bound so that we can't - so that the AH doesn't get flooded with the item and it doesn't get devalued. Cause we all know - once too many people get a hold of something - at least one fool is going to put it for super-low and that start the domino effect of devaluation, right? Much as I despise people who do that - I understand it....cause they could have millions in rough AD but since Daddy Cryptic says we can only have 36k of that each day - those people are desperate and will put things super low for a quicker sale. Makes you wonder if said person would do the same if they had access to all the AD they earned legit.....
The more I think about it - the more I realize how much grinding Im doing for a "chance" at something. This change only seems to exacerbate that and is nothing but a nickel and dime slow juicing of us and our hard earned real $.
GTA is starting to seem more attractive again. At least there....I do something....I get paid.....and I can use that currency (ALL OF IT - ITS NOT HELD BACK LIKE AN ALLOWANCE) to buy what I want...anything I want....provided I can meet the price. Wish that could be done here but a lot is dependent on RNG - even of currency you get (like Trade Bars) to buy cool things.
If you're having trouble refining your AD just buy alts and refine your salvage AD on them.
On PS4 this really shouldn't be a problem with the zax rate being half of what PC has.
The BtA items they added never dropped before so you're not losing out on anything. People need to realize that the problem isn't that this key change is drastically going to change their AD gains. The main problem is that it's maintaining the status quo when this will be the only balance pass on rewards for a long time.
Neverwinter's dungeons are designed like a casino, so that the average 'customer' leaves with less than they had when they came in. The 'payouts' happen just often enough for someone to realized that they 'just might' have a chance to 'win big' if they just keep going back, in the hopes that that win will out-weigh all the losses they've accrued over the weeks/months/years.
More people are beginning to realize just how rigged the game is, so the dev team has been instructed to create door prizes so more people feel like they've won something, so they keep coming back and they tell their friends things have gotten better.
Rest assured the drop rates will be meticulously calculated to ensure that, in the long run, the players will lose more than they gain.
Neverwinter Module 6: The only MMO expansion in the history of MMO's to remove more content than it added.
I personally am really happy that the Cambion Magus is a possibility to get now. I stumbled on it on wiki and thought I'd never have a shot at one. I just hope it's not impossibly rare on a hard dungeon.
Also, I've made good AD selling things on the auction house, but you guys need to not worry so much about the price of things falling. I'm on PC, prices were so and still are so ridiculously high. We need the economy to crash. e.g., Shards of Valindras crown always a million or more AD even at green, now can't sell blue for more than 120k ad, legendary mounts for 30-40 million AD ($400-$500) in real dollars. Give me a break!
Most sellers on there don't have a clue what the market value is for what they are selling and for too long they've enjoyed limited supplies, artificially high prices that most people couldn't afford anyway, and feelings of entitlement.
Thank you Cryptic/Arc for bringing these idiots back to earth by allowing us more means to get things that were too limited, too expensive, or just unavailable.
One of the things I like about the Winter Festival is that you have a shot at pretty much any event prize. That's how a dungeon should be, a shot at any prize to keep things interesting.
I wouldn't mind being able to actually buy some things too. Why not sell great companions like the Cambion Magus? Why not sell at least one version of a legendary mount so the masses can actually get one?
If you sold a legendary mount that gave 4000 to a stat or stats...let me allocate my 4000 stat points over any stats for say $100 (maybe 50 on sale) and claimable by all characters, I'd buy one right now no questions asked.
Some of these items, especially when it comes to companions, haven’t been available in Neverwinter for a while. For example, there’s a chance to get a Cleric Disciple, the Sergeant Knox companion, or a Cambion Magus (these “out of print” companions have the same chance rate others of the same quality!). ** These items will be bound to account.
Comments
Would you mind following up with the dev team if we will or will not be getting the loot tables / Misc items list posted with the drop chances? with much respect it should not take a week to make a yes or no call and communicate it back to the player base.
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
Why run all these dungeons and end game stuff if it's not worth the key? I want to say as politely as I can, but everyone feels as though we're being pushed closer and closer to pay to play.
No one minds spending money when they want to, we happily spend our money, buying things we really want... however when we start to feel as if we have to spend money, like we're being forced, our pockets start to feel much tighter...
I suggest if you must have keys consumed upon opening the chest, do so only with epic dungeon keys but not the legendary dragon keys... we pay real money for those, we should be able to choose if we want the reward in those chests at least.
And to echo what many have said, if greater demonic keys will be consumed and we're getting +1 rings still, we should get a decrease in the amount of time it takes to make one. An entire day to get a +1 ring that only salvages for 2k is not worth it.
Or worse the legendary keys... 300 Zen is worth upwards of 100k AD... to open 5 chests and end up with 10k AD from salvage garbage is a terrible terrible exchange rate. Even if you happen to get all epic armor it's still only 35k AD at best using up all five keys... it makes it seem not worth buying them at all. Especially with chances for the better items being so low.
I can say for myself I am skeptical of spending any more on this game than I already have due to the changes and I think many others feel the same. I can't really say until I've ran a few dungeons and such post change, but my initial reaction is that I don't like this new system. I hope we see some compromise and some input from the players more seriously considered and implemented.
I did the math with my RNG luck and current drop rates I would have to spent ~40 kk AD in keys for my legendary weapon set (each char). With 5 x better drop rate it would 'just' be 4 kk AD for keys. Add the cost in time/AD for vonin blood, lanolin etc. and this will make ppl stop playing, period. I would have the AD to spent for the keys, but comparing the time or money you have to invest for 40 kk AD and the 'reward' (legendary weapons you will refine in half a year) I dont think, that this changes will go well with the players
this would give players some incentive to run these dungeons after they have acquired most of the good from the dungeons.
mk said, that sva already contains the "improved" lootsystem, so it doesnt matter, if its 200 or 300 runs.
either way, removing the peak function is an insult towards the players.
i was unhappy, that i couldnt extend my vip, but when reading this, it was probably better, that i ran out of zen back then.
So again, I wholeheartedly ask...what's the freaking obsession with keys, and how is that healthy for the game?
Why do you need to attach an inherent "cost" to getting loot. It just feels so punitive at this point.
I think this whole issue would 90% go away or may be 70%
Personally my toons are in good shape, I don't need another companion, another mount nor an artifact that is bound to my account unless it is BiS and legendary. What I need are ways to make AD through salvage or sales and a rank 8 enchant is marginal in my opinion as a reward from a dungeon that ultimately cost me a fair amount of time and money to build a character than can do the content, unlock and learn the content, and run the content.
Right now I don't mind the RNG too much on the chests, but it does not take my key, so that is the difference. If you are taking my key, the loot needs to be able to replace my key and something for the effort or there will be no reason to make the effort. I counted up my keys this weekend. My main character has over 1000 unused epic keys as the loot in the chests are not really of interest to me.
There was another forum post with dozens of pages of suggestions on what types of things would be better. I am sure it is a huge task to reread all of that post as well, but there were some great ideas there.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
For Malabog's Castle need to a weekly for 100 Sparks.
For Gold Crescent need to do daily for 10 of them and 10 other daily to get 10 more. Or buy Fomorian Concoction for about 7500 AD Per 100
But stuff from that chest isn't worth 7500ad
So you need to do all this then wait 20h to get that key
For Greater Demonic Key you need 300 Faerzress
To get those is to do x2 Normal Demogorgon and get Gold
Or do x2 Epic Demogorgon with Gold rank
Then 20h to wait so you can open chest tomorrow
Same goes if you want to open Castle Never chest as well you need x4 Ndemo or x3 Edemo so you can open 1 Edemo chest today and 1 Castle Never chest tomorrow
To make key for Valindra's Tower you need 15 Vanguard Scrip and 5 Thayan Scroll
To get this need x3 dailes = 9 script and daily lair – 2 or 3 script and you fall short still.
So if you don't buy Onyx Fragments need to wait another day for dailys do start 1 key and open chest on third day
To make Keys for Kessel's Retreat need 3 Dwarfen Gold, 3 Auril's Tear 10 Coins
Fot that need to do Denon Hunting daily or Needless Distractions for 10 coins
And all Icewind Pass and Dwarfen Valley dailys to get enough to make 1 key then open chest next day
To make Elol and Esot keys need:
Esot = 4 Cult Secret 4 Dragon Sigil 20 Dragon Hoard Coins
Elol = 6 Cult Secret 6 Dragon Sigil 30 Dragon Hoard Coins
Common Cause gives 1 Dragon Sigil for daily mini-dungeon
Culling the Cultists – 1 Cult Secret
Neverdeath grave yard = 2 Cult Secrets
Ice Spire Peaks = 2 Cult Secrets
Rothe Valley = 2 Dragon Sigil
Whispering Caverns = 2 Dragon Sigil
Total 5 Sigils and 5 Cult Secrets
So we fall short here and need to to go to Well of Dragons to do dailys here too
I won't list those here but they gives usually 2 cult secrets , 2 Dragon Sigils or 1 of each including Fallen Dragon Fang
So Dragon timer is 19mins
And we need to wait average 15 for each of the 4 dragons
That is 1h just to kill dragons
Add riding to the place and other things
I have done this myself it is about 2h work for everything
Could be more also
To make Dragon Queen's Key – need 2 Fallen Dragon Fang and Dragon Hoard Coins 20 Coins.
This needs you to do Well of Dragons weekly and dailys if you want 1 key a day for Tiamat
So you need like 1 full day or even 2 days just to do all those places to make 1 key for tomorrow
This is my suggestion:
1 – Reduce amount of campaign goods needed for a key. Like Greater demonic key to make 1 for 50-100 Faerzress and 1h or 2h each one
Elol/Esot keys from 4/4 to 1/1 and from 6/6 to 2/2 and same time frame
This excludes 5 Gold you need per key generally
Here are some of my screen shots from Castle Never Chests
I never seen Orcus Shard
Those Screen shots of the best chests I gave gotten so far in Castle Never
And to get those I peeked in may be 9-10 times before using key for those
My spouse farmed tirelessly for legendary rings. Has still has never had one drop. He's given up.
The joke about running CN is we need to get our daily +1 ring. We've never seen the Shard. (Currently listed ~4.8M AD. Prohibitively high.)
I currently don't use my keys the majority of the time because the rewards aren't worth it. The feel-good sentiment at the end of a dungeon is "at least I save a key!", because it means less grinding to make another.
Back in the day, a mod would be released, I'd work to get the new shinies and be ready for the next. It was fun. Now it feels like I'm still working on mods not just released last year but on one from 2015. By the time I get stuff, it runs the risk of not being relevent anymore.
Similarly to what another poster said, my trust in this company has eroded. It always tries to make bad stuff sound good. Getting a key/misc bag sounds great, until you realise they're also adding a ton of stuff to the loot tables, which mean all that space freed up (and more besides) just got taken up.
For people to feel motivated to play, there have to be goals, they have to be realistic, achievable and in a timely manner. (Working toward 40 twisted ichor was far more satisfying then depending on RNG drops in MSVA.) Unmovtivated people simply wander away to do something else.
But, ugh, whatever. These aren't new ideas. The player-base has come up with some fantastic ideas, which, for whatever reasons haven't being considered. The power-that-be favour a more punitive style of managment and that's their perogative. I have hope things will change for the better, but zero expectation they will.
You're trying to balance classes around a broken system. Bonding Stones are the problem. You are only seeing game breaking class features because players are able to buff themselves through what is essentially a glorified augment companion. All of the companion abilities and powers are nothing more than Companions Gift procc'ing variables. The effort and detail in creating Meteor Strike on companion is meaningless if it does 800 damage to a spiderlings that has a million hit points. So taking a companion that has a really cool power but has really long cool downs is pointless. You also now have half a dozen runestones that are worth nothing more than Refinement. No one is slotting an Eldrytch Runestone Rank 12 in a companion...ever. No one is buying a Black Dragon Ion stone from the Zen market..ever.
My suggestion:
Making Bondings work in reverse. - Companion gets X% of players stats. This would fix both the power creep and the companion scaling in one fix. All combat companions would run equal to their player companion making everything from healer, striker, controller, and leader/defender a viable option. This would also bring back Ion Stones/Augments for players who don't care about sharing their stats and just want to push their own ability to higher levels. Both would be equal in the end. You've now brought all aspects of the companion system back to present content and made them all viable, while balancing the growing issue with over powered class balancing.
This would create an entirely new aspect to running dungeons. A 5 man super group would turn into a 10 man raid. For PuGs this is even better! If you don't get a tank, someone brings out a tank companion and fills that roll. No controller, break out a Control companion. Instead of 5 players running around with 170k power why not 10 players running around at 30k? The combination of class roles to companion roles are endless. It would breathe new life into an otherwise neglected aspect of the game that's long over due for some attention. Please think about this as an alternative to nerfs and class fixes in an attempt to balance classes.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
That problem is making the loot a chance of a chance.
First we got Demogorgon and you said there is a (initially an impossible) chance of getting a +4/+5 ring...which is fine..but you the made it so that it's another (impossible) chance to get the one we want. Same thing is in CN, FBI and SVA.
That alone is the cause of our problems, but with this change you are going a step further. You will gate that chance of a chance behind a key that will be used up. So not just that we will not get what we are trying to get, you will give us ONE chance of a chance per day if we are F2P and infinite chances of a chance if we buy the keys.
If we wanted that don't you think we would rather buy lockbox keys?
Can't wait to see amount of game breaking bugs they will bring like The Underdark rings did
PS4 Player here...
You made a game that managed to pry me away from GTA which I was hopelessly stuck on for the longest time.
I've had a lot of fun the last few months hanging with fellow GTA defectors and building a CW to 2875 IL and am pretty much at near endgame BiS gear - just need to upgrade enchants and bondings as well as a few +5 rings which haven't dropped as of yet. Oh well - I'll just continue as I am - keep hitting those dungeons/skirmishes as I have been and checking chests and hold on to my precious keys until the rings I want finally drop.
Oh - but wait....when this change goes through....I'm going to be robbed of that choice and forced to take the ABSOLUTE GARBAGE I usually pass on since the current drop-rate is utterly abysmal! 10x more chance or whatever fancy stat you try to dress it up with is meaningless unless we know the real number - which you're being dodgy about.
So if I want to farm dungeons/skirmishes for good loot - I'm gonna have to pay for another key(s). Kinda makes me wonder why I'm continuing to bother upgrading the CW through refining/upgrading enchants and bondings to get that extra DPS oomph that would help the crew get through a bit better. BTW - THAT process is proving to be a boring grind and quite costly given the rarity of Bonding stones and Potency marks - except on the AH.
So what does that leave me if I decide not to bother with the chests and not buy keys...salvageable items that might drop? Sure that's great and all - but are you going to remove that silly 36k per day restriction then? You see - I have over 600k rough AD saved up which might be useful to me right now to outlay for these resources I need to upgrade - but I can only have 36k. Its like my bank withholding my wages that my workplace has direct deposited into my account. So that argument is out the window
Oh wait - rare items I can sell on the AH? Oh - but Dang Nabit - you guys are going to make that Character/Account bound so that we can't - so that the AH doesn't get flooded with the item and it doesn't get devalued. Cause we all know - once too many people get a hold of something - at least one fool is going to put it for super-low and that start the domino effect of devaluation, right? Much as I despise people who do that - I understand it....cause they could have millions in rough AD but since Daddy Cryptic says we can only have 36k of that each day - those people are desperate and will put things super low for a quicker sale. Makes you wonder if said person would do the same if they had access to all the AD they earned legit.....
The more I think about it - the more I realize how much grinding Im doing for a "chance" at something. This change only seems to exacerbate that and is nothing but a nickel and dime slow juicing of us and our hard earned real $.
GTA is starting to seem more attractive again. At least there....I do something....I get paid.....and I can use that currency (ALL OF IT - ITS NOT HELD BACK LIKE AN ALLOWANCE) to buy what I want...anything I want....provided I can meet the price. Wish that could be done here but a lot is dependent on RNG - even of currency you get (like Trade Bars) to buy cool things.
Yes, they will lose value, but if I understood it correctly, the dropped companions will be BtA, and you can keep posting them on the AH for 90 million to show them off...
And for the love of Tymora, please let us exchange +5 rings to the one we want, getting a Ring of Vanishing Presence +5 is a cruel joke...
On PS4 this really shouldn't be a problem with the zax rate being half of what PC has.
The BtA items they added never dropped before so you're not losing out on anything. People need to realize that the problem isn't that this key change is drastically going to change their AD gains. The main problem is that it's maintaining the status quo when this will be the only balance pass on rewards for a long time.
More people are beginning to realize just how rigged the game is, so the dev team has been instructed to create door prizes so more people feel like they've won something, so they keep coming back and they tell their friends things have gotten better.
Rest assured the drop rates will be meticulously calculated to ensure that, in the long run, the players will lose more than they gain.
For example, there’s a chance to get a Cleric Disciple, the Sergeant Knox companion, or a Cambion Magus (these “out of print” companions have the same chance rate others of the same quality!).
** These items will be bound to account.
o.o