This change is horrible. Getting useless bound items and blue salvage is not what D&D is about. It is about nice rewards that make you feel the time was well spent. Double-gating progression behind Zen and RNG does not make for a fun game.
To some not yet highly geared toons those bound items are not useless at all. Some high geared toons will have to discard them....so what? Completely acceptable....if you consider that handing out some items with a %-chance to be bound allows for higher drop-rates without crashing the market value. This particular part of the change benefits toons that don´t already have the BIS set-up with regards to companions, mounts etc....that´s just fine..
This change is horrible. Getting useless bound items and blue salvage is not what D&D is about. It is about nice rewards that make you feel the time was well spent. Double-gating progression behind Zen and RNG does not make for a fun game.
To some not yet highly geared toons those bound items are not useless at all. Some high geared toons will have to discard them....so what? Completely acceptable....if you consider that handing out some items with a %-chance to be bound allows for higher drop-rates without crashing the market value. This particular part of the change benefits toons that don´t already have the BIS set-up with regards to companions, mounts etc....that´s just fine..
No, junk is junk. Useless mounts and pets are useless for everybody. Good drops are too rare and keys cost too much. This new system is a bust.
Yea sure...if that purple flail snail I dragged out of a chest in VT had been bound I would have cursed a little since the dc already has another mount with that bonus from winter festival. No reason to think every new aa-spam-o-mat in this game already has such a mount. And anyways....even if it had been bound...my toon would now be snailing around on one of the funniest mount-models in this game. Still better than -nothing-...which was exactly what I saw upon gazing into any chest before.
Not saying the new system is without flaw yet...as I said above...and regarding mSVA it´s downright nonsensical. But with regards to the old dungeons the old key-system was depressing and boring as hell. You knew exactly what each chest could theoretically drop (no surprise at all) and you also knew that unless you start chain- and speed-running dungeons you´d have no reason to hope for a significant drop at all. I mean yes, you could get lucky without doing that theoretically. It was just ridiculously unlikely. That´s the burn-out effect the dev was talking about. And as the dev said...you´re not supposed to be forced in any way to buy keys to run old dungeons. Why would you do that...it makes no sense whatsoever. So just don´t. As for the new content - and THAT IS THE PROBLEM- things are different. mSVA ....even before but most definitely after the key-change is bullying you to buy keys. I didn´t and I hope a lot of other players didn´t either. So then maybe they find something more reasonable to sell in the zen-shop.
Ya, a few players get lucky, the rest are getting hamster. You can't use your lucky drop as a blanket endorsement. That is like saying lockboxes are great for everyone cuz one time you got a legendary mount from a VIP key. This is exactly the same as opening lockboxes, it is not fun. The old system at least gave everyone a profit.
I´m not doing that. Clearly others get lucky, too. Way more often than before. Which is good. Why on earth was it more profitable to run dungeons before? Because you could peek into the junk-containing 2nd chest like an opossum every time using one and the same key? Again...you don´t have to buy keys for old dungeons. If you do you choose to gamble and thus can loose. As for this nonsensical idea that was brought up of making the loot always worth at least the cost of the key....well, there would be absolutely no opportunity cost then, right? No reason not no buy heaps of keys and bulldozer as many dungeons as you possibly can....which again would lead to the problem of "burn-out" and on top of that drop-rates would have to be lowered to the nether regions again....same situation as before....why would anybody insist on doing something ad nauseam for ridiculously low drop-rates instead of doing it a limited amount of times for better drop-rates is beyond me.
Again...with regards to mSVA it´s different...they should be criticized for that (and the whole infernal grind of that mod). The attempt to sell a nonsensical amount of keys to me in order to have some chance to upgrade the latest gear is just silly. And I´m afraid that´s what the dev might have meant by saying the use they see for keys is in progression. I think I managed to craft two "keys" via fishing before I was bored out of my wits with that. Clearly I was supposed to be super-bored and buy my way out of this misery with legendary keys. I decidedly objected to being bullied into buying lottery tickets. And for a good reason I also never bought lockbox keys. Not a single one. I buy VIP with actual money because it gives me some good value apart from the lottery tickets. So -again- I wish they`ll concentrate on selling other things on the zen-shop...things that improve the gaming experience instead of messing it up. There are so many options. Why choose the worst one?
Farming something in this new system is impossible without buying Zen keys. 1 or 2 runs a day for an item with less than 1% drop rate. So, if in the future BIS items come out as drops, only those rich enough to buy stacks of keys will get the items. That is not a good way forward. That will lead to more burn-out than the previous system, and will result in a massive loss in AD/cash for players. The drop rates are NOT better.
Yup, but they don´t have to go that way even with the changes. eDemo as an example. Weapon acquisition relied upon reaching the best result a reasonable number of times. No need to waste or buy a single key. If some players want to speed things up and be first in a scenario like that and buy keys....I couldn´t care less. As long as everything is reasonably accessible without buying massive amounts of keys to gamble with...it´s ok.
Keys that are purchased should have a higher chance at getting the result that players want. Higher than using "free" methods. Sadly, that does not seem to be the case for those chasing legendary marks in Msva.
I understand it's a catch 22 for the devs. People complained about low drop rates when they didn't use a key, now they complain about AH prices when they do use a key and for those like me that are just plain unlucky, I complain about using keys and getting the same rubbish as before.
Adding 'value' to runs whilst regulating drops & the economy is obviously difficult to achieve. How do you keep people interested in content without flooding the market?
I don't have the answers but I do have a couple of points:
key purchases should be a 'want' rather than a need. If I buy keys I want to know it's worth it, not a 'chance at being worth it'.
I agree with the previous point that players shouldn't have to run old content to make a key, that's just tedious.
I understand the need for rng but for many players their number never pops. I believe there should be a counter that increases the chance after every fail and resets after a success.
Every chest players open should feel like a return on investment, even if it's just account bound refinement of a level matching the dungeon. By that I mean that if I run CN, getting a peridot is an insult whereas a greater resonance, gmop or even smop would be more appropriate.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Has there been a 'slight adjustment' in droprates? I had more and better drops in the first week after these changes. It is not just me, but other players I run with, too.
The last clue was a VT run with ZERO extra reward from the chest opened with the VT key. This chest drops an armor piece, seals and at last some refinement stones. I did get the armor piece and the seals, period. This looks like someone dabbled with the loot table and screwed it up.
First week I got a few companions and some artifacts, since then I'm back to +1 rings and salvage items. Though I have seen everyone else in my group pull those specialty items from specific dungeons like the Zulkirs Dreadnaught armor and the Bloodlords Visage quite often. I have everything I need for my character and not interested in something I can sell, however I would like to test some of those goofy new armors and add them to my collection. I've only pulled the Bloodlords Visage.
Has there been a 'slight adjustment' in droprates? I had more and better drops in the first week after these changes. It is not just me, but other players I run with, too.
The last clue was a VT run with ZERO extra reward from the chest opened with the VT key. This chest drops an armor piece, seals and at last some refinement stones. I did get the armor piece and the seals, period. This looks like someone dabbled with the loot table and screwed it up.
Any time they make a change, it seems that we get better RnG for a short time then after the very next patch, the RnG remembers that she's supposed to be evil.
Remember when you could run 10-15 Underdark skrimishes and/or eDemo and get at least one +4 ring? Not any longer. Par for the course.
With the current state of my luck, I am getting nothing that justifies or replaces the cost of a key, the only key that provides a net potential gain is the one free key a day. I have stopped running dungeons except to help guildies that may still be after their first purple mount.
This change seems to benefit the truly free to play people, they now have a way to get a purple mount without paying money. I was curious to see the economy outcome as well, feeder artifacts and some decent ones too on xbox are down considerably in price. I think this is a good thing, it makes toon progress much more obtainable for those that are free to play.
The one part that does still not make sense is the chest rewards giving 3K in sell-able loot in exchange for a 5K key. Please either increase the value of the normal minimum loot drop, or the value of the keys, or let us choose to take the loot or not. I am simply not going to run dungeons for a loss in value.
With the current state of my luck, I am getting nothing that justifies or replaces the cost of a key, the only key that provides a net potential gain is the one free key a day. I have stopped running dungeons except to help guildies that may still be after their first purple mount.
This change seems to benefit the truly free to play people, they now have a way to get a purple mount without paying money. I was curious to see the economy outcome as well, feeder artifacts and some decent ones too on xbox are down considerably in price. I think this is a good thing, it makes toon progress much more obtainable for those that are free to play.
The one part that does still not make sense is the chest rewards giving 3K in sell-able loot in exchange for a 5K key. Please either increase the value of the normal minimum loot drop, or the value of the keys, or let us choose to take the loot or not. I am simply not going to run dungeons for a loss in value.
By design. The reasoning is they don't want you to be able run dungeons ad infinitum..buy key, make more loot than cost of key than keep running dungeons repeating that cycle. I agree with that for a number of reasons. This is stupid and one of the big problems of MMOs (and always has been). Imagine a tabletop game and you just finished a dungeon. Let's speed run it again!! lol..no. Honestly, they should just be locked at the door, key should be to get IN the dungeon not open the box
Can anyone tell me where I can find STANDARD dungeon keys? I have VIP lev 1 status and I get epic dungeon keys daily rewards, but I haven't progressed far enough in the game to use them. What I do need are the standard ones so I can finish a lower level dungeons and reap the rewards from the chest at the end. I found one in the auction but they wanted so many astral diamonds for 1 key it was ridiculous. I would have to run a dungeon 25 times over just to collect enough AD's to buy this 1 key in the aution!
Can anyone tell me where I can find STANDARD dungeon keys? I have VIP lev 1 status and I get epic dungeon keys daily rewards, but I haven't progressed far enough in the game to use them. What I do need are the standard ones so I can finish a lower level dungeons and reap the rewards from the chest at the end. I found one in the auction but they wanted so many astral diamonds for 1 key it was ridiculous. I would have to run a dungeon 25 times over just to collect enough AD's to buy this 1 key in the aution!
I also find it weird (would prefer to say unacceptable, but it seems I did not read the fine print) that the keys from VIP do not unlock the regular dungeon chests. I wonder how much thought has gone into this. I also think they try really hard to annoy new players with this.
We give you 3 keys per day, but you can not use them as new player. Instead, we want you to buy ZEN and exchange that for AD so can see the worthless loot in the dungeon chests
At least it shows new players pretty soon what this game is about - getting you to spend money.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
A fish bag for BOTH SoMI AND winterfest would be just amazing. Furthermore - how about you move RECLAIMED resources to the campaing tab, or make a separate quest stuff bag, because the first day I was doing river district I had 2 bags filled with quest stuff only.
Comments
Not saying the new system is without flaw yet...as I said above...and regarding mSVA it´s downright nonsensical. But with regards to the old dungeons the old key-system was depressing and boring as hell. You knew exactly what each chest could theoretically drop (no surprise at all) and you also knew that unless you start chain- and speed-running dungeons you´d have no reason to hope for a significant drop at all. I mean yes, you could get lucky without doing that theoretically. It was just ridiculously unlikely. That´s the burn-out effect the dev was talking about.
And as the dev said...you´re not supposed to be forced in any way to buy keys to run old dungeons. Why would you do that...it makes no sense whatsoever. So just don´t.
As for the new content - and THAT IS THE PROBLEM- things are different. mSVA ....even before but most definitely after the key-change is bullying you to buy keys. I didn´t and I hope a lot of other players didn´t either. So then maybe they find something more reasonable to sell in the zen-shop.
Again...you don´t have to buy keys for old dungeons. If you do you choose to gamble and thus can loose. As for this nonsensical idea that was brought up of making the loot always worth at least the cost of the key....well, there would be absolutely no opportunity cost then, right? No reason not no buy heaps of keys and bulldozer as many dungeons as you possibly can....which again would lead to the problem of "burn-out" and on top of that drop-rates would have to be lowered to the nether regions again....same situation as before....why would anybody insist on doing something ad nauseam for ridiculously low drop-rates instead of doing it a limited amount of times for better drop-rates is beyond me.
Again...with regards to mSVA it´s different...they should be criticized for that (and the whole infernal grind of that mod). The attempt to sell a nonsensical amount of keys to me in order to have some chance to upgrade the latest gear is just silly. And I´m afraid that´s what the dev might have meant by saying the use they see for keys is in progression. I think I managed to craft two "keys" via fishing before I was bored out of my wits with that. Clearly I was supposed to be super-bored and buy my way out of this misery with legendary keys. I decidedly objected to being bullied into buying lottery tickets. And for a good reason I also never bought lockbox keys. Not a single one. I buy VIP with actual money because it gives me some good value apart from the lottery tickets.
So -again- I wish they`ll concentrate on selling other things on the zen-shop...things that improve the gaming experience instead of messing it up. There are so many options. Why choose the worst one?
Adding 'value' to runs whilst regulating drops & the economy is obviously difficult to achieve. How do you keep people interested in content without flooding the market?
I don't have the answers but I do have a couple of points:
key purchases should be a 'want' rather than a need. If I buy keys I want to know it's worth it, not a 'chance at being worth it'.
I agree with the previous point that players shouldn't have to run old content to make a key, that's just tedious.
I understand the need for rng but for many players their number never pops. I believe there should be a counter that increases the chance after every fail and resets after a success.
Every chest players open should feel like a return on investment, even if it's just account bound refinement of a level matching the dungeon. By that I mean that if I run CN, getting a peridot is an insult whereas a greater resonance, gmop or even smop would be more appropriate.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
The last clue was a VT run with ZERO extra reward from the chest opened with the VT key. This chest drops an armor piece, seals and at last some refinement stones. I did get the armor piece and the seals, period. This looks like someone dabbled with the loot table and screwed it up.
Remember when you could run 10-15 Underdark skrimishes and/or eDemo and get at least one +4 ring? Not any longer. Par for the course.
This change seems to benefit the truly free to play people, they now have a way to get a purple mount without paying money. I was curious to see the economy outcome as well, feeder artifacts and some decent ones too on xbox are down considerably in price. I think this is a good thing, it makes toon progress much more obtainable for those that are free to play.
The one part that does still not make sense is the chest rewards giving 3K in sell-able loot in exchange for a 5K key. Please either increase the value of the normal minimum loot drop, or the value of the keys, or let us choose to take the loot or not. I am simply not going to run dungeons for a loss in value.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
The reasoning is they don't want you to be able run dungeons ad infinitum..buy key, make more loot than cost of key than keep running dungeons repeating that cycle. I agree with that for a number of reasons. This is stupid and one of the big problems of MMOs (and always has been). Imagine a tabletop game and you just finished a dungeon. Let's speed run it again!! lol..no.
Honestly, they should just be locked at the door, key should be to get IN the dungeon not open the box
I wonder how much thought has gone into this. I also think they try really hard to annoy new players with this.
At least it shows new players pretty soon what this game is about - getting you to spend money.
[]Full Metal Witch[]
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