1) In addition to the suggestions offered by others, an option to decline loot in favor of some new currency that can be used in a campaign store for the endgame reward of the player's choice. Some reasonable amount like 20 runs' worth for a specific legendary ring, 50 for an artifact or an epic mount, 100 for a legendary mount, 10 for a coalescent ward (That's still 170 runs to make a transcendent enchantment), one for 10 preservation wards.
2) The overhaul SHOULD INCLUDE LOCKBOXES. Far too often, the reward for opening a lockbox is useless and/or worthless. You want people to spend more money? Give them rewards that are worth it.
3) In general, stop giving players reason to resent the RNG.
OK, so here's a suggestion. The chest should always contain a piece of equipment (ring, belt, necklace etc). One refining stone with a chance of x2, campaign currencies and astral diamonds.
A bronze win should get you a piece of equipment *at least* the same level as your lowest piece of gear (not including artefacts, or underclothes), and a low chance of getting something the same level as your highest piece of gear. The refining stone should be green with a chance of blue.
Bronze chests can be skipped by good players who already have strong gear.
A silver win should get you a piece of armour at least the same level as your gear *average* (so if you have mostly iL120 gear, you'd get at least a 120 item) with a low-medium chance of something higher. The refining stone should be blue with a chance of purple.
Silver rewards can be skipped by high endgame players.
A gold win should absolutely always get you gear the same level as your highest piece of kit. Stone should be purple. Gold should always feel like a victory and you should never, *ever* feel disappointed opening a chest. No excuses.
Nobody should want to skip gold rewards, they should always improve your character, even if just a little. If you could guarantee that gold wins would alwaysget you better gear, you would make an absolute ton from keys.
A reward system like this could also scale wonderfully across all instances, dungeons and skirmishes.
And thankyou for communicating with us on this. Really, it's refreshing to see devs try and repair community relations like this.
Oh, and please correctly label Tuern and Kessel as skirmishes, it's really confusing for newbies.
One, I think this equalizes the pain between buyers and sellers. For the longest time, NW is a buyer's market. A month or so ago someone brazenly suggested that ViP no longer remove the posting fee penalty, where sellers are normally punished for failing to sell ( in short hurt the sellers even more while leaving the buyers untouched).
Now, it's come full circle, the dungeoneers who get their no-competition, tax-free ad are now getting hit.
Two, having said that, I think there should be a form of compromise (given the drop-rate reality). Cryptic should allow +5 rings to be RANDOMLY transmutable to another +5 ring:
Pay 50k AD to randomly transmute a +5 Ring to another +5 Ring. Pay 10k AD to randomly transmute a +4 Ring to another +4 Ring. Pay 2k AD to randomly transmute a +3 Ring to another +3 Ring.
This also doubles as an elusive/much-needed AD SINK that's currently missing in-game. A player who already owns a +5 ring would appreciate this consolation.
Here's a suggestion than can solve the key/drop desirability problem.
If you want to make the key very desirable, you have make the top drop very desirable. Aside from improving the general quality of the drops, there should be a supremely desirable item among them.
Hence, add a Super Rare, Named, Limited Numbered Drop Weapon (aside from the current, normal and rare drops). - Super Rare: 1000x+ Rarer than a +5 Ring. - Limited Numbered Drops: Only 10-12 will drop EVER. Once exhausted, it will never drop again. - Will have a special, specific name not a generic one (example: Bogeronimo's Fangaxe. If canon allows it). - Evergreen: The weapon damage will adjust to every module henceforth, so they don't become derelict. - Unbindable: If the lucky user decides to sell/trade it, then he/she can farm reagents from the same dungeon to make it Bind-on-Equip once more to sell/trade it. (There are many downsides to this, such as being resold for real money, so OPTIONAL). - Will have 4 slots or 3 slots (2 of which are Weapon Enchantment. Double weapon enchant!). - Weapon will have a special weapon effect. - Will work with any offhand weapon to complete the effect of the offhand.
There you have it. Players will desire these. Players will farm these. Every module from now on will have one of this Super Rare, Limited Numbered items (Weapon, Ring, Necklace, Special Charms you put in your consumable bar, etc).
Player 1: Where did you get that weapon? Player 2: I got it from new module. *brandishes it*. It's super rare, numbered limited edition. *grins* Player 1: How much are you selling or trading it? Player 2: Cryptic will have to raise the 100m cap. It's much worth than that. *double grin*
Right now, Cryptic is offering essentially, hate to use this word, trash as rewards. That's what will make people want those legendary keys. Heck, Cryptic can even make a NEW key (Mythical Dragon Key), double the price, that will increase the drop-chance slightly of the super-weapon/item(s) if you use them instead.
For the player who compared this to the Knox Companion event. That companion was nothing special other than it was Named. If I remember correctly, it was epic, has 3 defensive slots with no special abilities/qualities whatsoever. Imo, those companion events were done as an AD sink to reduce all the illicit AD introduced in the economy via exploits.
Secondly, my suggestion of these Super Rare, Limited-numbered weapons are that they should only drop once a week or so. And meant to drop 'on top of everything else', aside from the final loot tables that Cryptic decides on. Essentially an extra, superjackpot prize.
If I take the current lockbox as example. Imagine super rare Mythic Mounts are added 'on top of everything else'. Then:
a) More keys will be used. b) No change in desirability and use of keys. c) Less keys will be used.
Of course the correct answer is a). I'm not saying add Mythic Mounts to the lockbox. I'm saying if they did the same tact with the chest 'on top of everything else' then they can increase the desirability, and thus VALUE, of the keys.
Sounds...better. Hopefully, you follow through. (Although I never peek in chests...) But the rewards could- no should definitely be more rewarding- scratch that. Actual rewards. (p.s. fix the Arc Point system...each update ends some new players arc point progression- this time mine. Bye Bye, heavy Mystic Nightmare BOOO!!!)
Cryptic and it's team has really improved in the past 3 years, and your decision to withdraw this change clearly highlights that.
A+
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Whilst its cool that you're put a delay on your plans its laughable that you're asking for suggestions for how to improve chests.
Its simple & you already know the answer. Stop putting rubbish in them so that people want to actually open them & get what's inside rather than work your way through a dungeon, have a look & then don't bother opening it because there's nothing of value in there.
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
1) In addition to the suggestions offered by others, an option to decline loot in favor of some new currency that can be used in a campaign store for the endgame reward of the player's choice. Some reasonable amount like 20 runs' worth for a specific legendary ring, 50 for an artifact or an epic mount, 100 for a legendary mount, 10 for a coalescent ward (That's still 170 runs to make a transcendent enchantment), one for 10 preservation wards.
2) The overhaul SHOULD INCLUDE LOCKBOXES. Far too often, the reward for opening a lockbox is useless and/or worthless. You want people to spend more money? Give them rewards that are worth it.
3) In general, stop giving players reason to resent the RNG.
The thing with rewards is, the more people with access to them, the lesser the value. So you can't add good rewards and keep 'em as good rewards.
One, I think this equalizes the pain between buyers and sellers. For the longest time, NW is a buyer's market. A month or so ago someone brazenly suggested that ViP no longer remove the posting fee penalty, where sellers are normally punished for failing to sell ( in short hurt the sellers even more while leaving the buyers untouched).
Now, it's come full circle, the dungeoneers who get their no-competition, tax-free ad are now getting hit.
Two, having said that, I think there should be a form of compromise (given the drop-rate reality). Cryptic should allow +5 rings to be RANDOMLY transmutable to another +5 ring:
Pay 50k AD to randomly transmute a +5 Ring to another +5 Ring. Pay 10k AD to randomly transmute a +4 Ring to another +4 Ring. Pay 2k AD to randomly transmute a +3 Ring to another +3 Ring.
This also doubles as an elusive/much-needed AD SINK that's currently missing in-game. A player who already owns a +5 ring would appreciate this consolation.
Here's a suggestion than can solve the key/drop desirability problem.
If you want to make the key very desirable, you have make the top drop very desirable. Aside from improving the general quality of the drops, there should be a supremely desirable item among them.
Hence, add a Super Rare, Named, Limited Numbered Drop Weapon (aside from the current, normal and rare drops). - Super Rare: 1000x+ Rarer than a +5 Ring. - Limited Numbered Drops: Only 10-12 will drop EVER. Once exhausted, it will never drop again. - Will have a special, specific name not a generic one (example: Bogeronimo's Fangaxe. If canon allows it). - Evergreen: The weapon damage will adjust to every module henceforth, so they don't become derelict. - Unbindable: If the lucky user decides to sell/trade it, then he/she can farm reagents from the same dungeon to make it Bind-on-Equip once more to sell/trade it. (There are many downsides to this, such as being resold for real money, so OPTIONAL). - Will have 4 slots or 3 slots (2 of which are Weapon Enchantment. Double weapon enchant!). - Weapon will have a special weapon effect. - Will work with any offhand weapon to complete the effect of the offhand.
There you have it. Players will desire these. Players will farm these. Every module from now on will have one of this Super Rare, Limited Numbered items (Weapon, Ring, Necklace, Special Charms you put in your consumable bar, etc).
Player 1: Where did you get that weapon? Player 2: I got it from new module. *brandishes it*. It's super rare, numbered limited edition. *grins* Player 1: How much are you selling or trading it? Player 2: Cryptic will have to raise the 100m cap. It's much worth than that. *double grin*
Right now, Cryptic is offering essentially, hate to use this word, trash as rewards. That's what will make people want those legendary keys. Heck, Cryptic can even make a NEW key (Mythical Dragon Key), double the price, that will increase the drop-chance slightly of the super-weapon/item(s) if you use them instead.
For the player who compared this to the Knox Companion event. That companion was nothing special other than it was Named. If I remember correctly, it was epic, has 3 defensive slots with no special abilities/qualities whatsoever. Imo, those companion events were done as an AD sink to reduce all the illicit AD introduced in the economy via exploits.
Secondly, my suggestion of these Super Rare, Limited-numbered weapons are that they should only drop once a week or so. And meant to drop 'on top of everything else', aside from the final loot tables that Cryptic decides on. Essentially an extra, superjackpot prize.
If I take the current lockbox as example. Imagine super rare Mythic Mounts are added 'on top of everything else'. Then:
a) More keys will be used. b) No change in desirability and use of keys. c) Less keys will be used.
Of course the correct answer is a). I'm not saying add Mythic Mounts to the lockbox. I'm saying if they did the same tact with the chest 'on top of everything else' then they can increase the desirability, and thus VALUE, of the keys.
That isn't nice. People will continue to need your 'Super Rare' and 'Limited Number' drops. That's the system we have now, though not limited, and is hated. This isn't a good idea. If it were something cosmetic like iron zerg suggested, fine. But a Mythic mount (please, those reading, don't bring these) ain't cosmetic. All things that add to your character's performance have to be reasonably obtainable.
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inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
I like the Coalescent Ward Idea, Superior Marks of Potency would also be a nice reward.
side editorial: I really wish you would do away with all wards and marks in the game and make percentage of sucess 100%. It angers people to the point of quitting the game when they have earned the RP to refine somthing that is suposed to have a 10% chance for sucess and use 60+ preservation wards at a cost of around 6K AD each to get it done (give us a break). I know that sounds like an extreme senario, but it isn't, it happens quite a bit, and people who have been in the game awhile have all had to talk a friend down off the ledge because of it. Just makes players feel cheated and ripped off and we don't need that in the game. Let the upgrades happen when they should.
Ok, off the soapbox now. If we can't do away with wards and marks, then letting these items drop from chests would help to make refining less frustrating. they don't need to drop often, but enough that people see it as a real possability for reward.
Now a question, is it just me or when Superior Marks of Potency were first discussed for refining didn't they say we would only need two to refine and item?? I'm probably wrong about this but have been curious for awhile about it.
As to the: "what would you like to see" - I'd "like" to see is loot consistantly poping out of chests that has the same worth as the price of the keys used to open them - and then some... but even I know something like that isn't practical.
So realistically what I'd like to see is whatever pops out of chests opened with a key to have some value either to the progression of the player's character or their finances, which to me primarially means much less bound to character items, unless those items can be used for refinement or something like that.
Items not bound to character but bound to account can be given to a player's alternate characters so it has worth and it might even encourage players to purchase character slots and create new characters if they have items their current characters can't use.
Now if someone has their character slots maxed out and every one of their alts outfitted with the best available gear - then they don't really need much by way of drops anyway IMO, usually those types of characters are just playing for profit to advance their personal wealth they can still do so with the third kind of drop mentioned next.
The items not bound to character - not salvagable - not able to be used for refining and not bound to account can be sold in the Auction House, maybe to make up the total cost of a key (doubtful) or to at least make up a portion of the cost of a key...
Something is better than nothing and the price one gets for items in the AH largely depends on the desireability (and price) of that item. Priced too high and fewer people will be interested/able to buy it - supply and demand, simple marketing.
Also what I would like to see is an ocasional even rare Astral Diamond, or WOW! item drop...
We get those damn annoying (my opinion) Admin notices, in two places one on the chat window and one on the HUD, about what people get from lock boxes and for some that may promote a 'wow factor' that encourages them to buy keys and open lock boxes... I am NOT suggesting more annoying Admin notices when someone gets a legendary mount, ruinic bag, level 12 rune or whatever from a chest, but word of mouth is one of the best and cheapest marketing tools any company can have...
If or rather when, (you know it's going to happen) people start bragging about the phenominal item they pulled out of a chest, other people are going to see that and think "Maybe I should buy some keys and run a few of those dungeons" more players enticed to purchase keys and run content for the chance for that rare expeptional drop - more people buying keys and VIP to get keys for that same chance and knowing that regardless of what they get it will have some practical use to them.
Those are my thoughts anyway.
DD~
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lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
In my opinion, one of the most boring things about running dungeons in Neverwinter is that you know what you can get and that there is a very small loot table in each one. I would like to run every dungeon knowing that even the old ones that I haven't visited in days or months can still reward me with something unexpected. If you check the feedback, most players want to see a reward worth the time invested on running the dungeon so we can farm them and it won't feel like a chore, which is ok because that's the core of the game but it would be nice to get items that you are not supposed to farm because you can get them in every dungeon, "by playing the game". It shouldn't be something that everyone must have but stuff that is good to find: fashion items, new rare dyes, mounts, companions, campaign resources (good either for yourself or for the guild), new weapon skins, vouchers, and a huge etc.
My point is that I don't want to run a dungeon just to open a chest a say: nice, the same loot (ad, seals and 1 epic item) like in my previous 100 runs, how fun. I prefer to say: ok, let's see what I got today in this run... Surprise!
Just because a dungeon is old or there's a very low ilvl requeriment doesn't mean that they are useless or boring by design, we are bored of running the same content just to find the same lame loot. Dungeons are fun, playing with other players is fun and we can go back to these old dungeons if you make them fun by adding the element of surprise in the end of it.
Please, don't go for the easy route of adding a lot of RP to the chests because you already did this for every chest that requires a legendary key. Take your time, evaluate the situation and make Neverwinter great again (lol).
Lazaroth, Thanks for the input. I feel the same way you do about dungeon love, and I assure you that we are not going the easy route. We are really working towards a cohesive change. Cheers M.K.
I'm not a huge fan of seals and trading stuff in for items, it kind of feels like something is lacking when you get a handful of seals and then every week hand them over for an item(s) (that's what gold should be for, at the moment gold is useless at end game). Maybe that comes back to "surprise me". Same with +5 rings, I'd rather just increase the chance to something reasonable and still keep the element of luck and surprise in there.
I don't think that every chest needs to return the value of the key, but over time a player should get rewarded and be in front if they spends $$ or time grinding in the game. But it shouldn't be that you need to get a 1 in a 100 drop to make the reward worthwhile and everything else is HAMSTER.
So after the loot gets a "reboot", here is an idea for a surprise . . . . . how about a small chance for the chest to turn into a Mimick with no way to tell until you open the thing - with risk comes reward . . . . . hahahahahahahaha
(snip) So after the loot gets a "reboot", here is an idea for a surprise . . . . . how about a small chance for the chest to turn into a Mimick with no way to tell until you open the thing - with risk comes reward . . . . . hahahahahahahaha
In my opinion, one of the most boring things about running dungeons in Neverwinter is that you know what you can get and that there is a very small loot table in each one. I would like to run every dungeon knowing that even the old ones that I haven't visited in days or months can still reward me with something unexpected. If you check the feedback, most players want to see a reward worth the time invested on running the dungeon so we can farm them and it won't feel like a chore, which is ok because that's the core of the game but it would be nice to get items that you are not supposed to farm because you can get them in every dungeon, "by playing the game". It shouldn't be something that everyone must have but stuff that is good to find: fashion items, new rare dyes, mounts, companions, campaign resources (good either for yourself or for the guild), new weapon skins, vouchers, and a huge etc.
My point is that I don't want to run a dungeon just to open a chest a say: nice, the same loot (ad, seals and 1 epic item) like in my previous 100 runs, how fun. I prefer to say: ok, let's see what I got today in this run... Surprise!
Just because a dungeon is old or there's a very low ilvl requeriment doesn't mean that they are useless or boring by design, we are bored of running the same content just to find the same lame loot. Dungeons are fun, playing with other players is fun and we can go back to these old dungeons if you make them fun by adding the element of surprise in the end of it.
Please, don't go for the easy route of adding a lot of RP to the chests because you already did this for every chest that requires a legendary key. Take your time, evaluate the situation and make Neverwinter great again (lol).
Lazaroth, Thanks for the input. I feel the same way you do about dungeon love, and I assure you that we are not going the easy route. We are really working towards a cohesive change. Cheers M.K.
I'm not a huge fan of seals and trading stuff in for items, it kind of feels like something is lacking when you get a handful of seals and then every week hand them over for an item(s) (that's what gold should be for, at the moment gold is useless at end game). Maybe that comes back to "surprise me". Same with +5 rings, I'd rather just increase the chance to something reasonable and still keep the element of luck and surprise in there.
I don't think that every chest needs to return the value of the key, but over time a player should get rewarded and be in front if they spends $$ or time grinding in the game. But it shouldn't be that you need to get a 1 in a 100 drop to make the reward worthwhile and everything else is HAMSTER.
So after the loot gets a "reboot", here is an idea for a surprise . . . . . how about a small chance for the chest to turn into a Mimick with no way to tell until you open the thing - with risk comes reward . . . . . hahahahahahahaha
Though I don't entirely agree with you about seals (I think you should be able to get items without RnG, RnG really hates me).
I will give you a +1 for the mimic idea! Make it a boss mimic, as long as it doesn't happen so often where it becomes annoying. I think it would actually be an interesting twist to opening a treasure chest. I think you would still have to have a decent drop after the mimic dies, otherwise that could be bad also.... Like ohh look I just rolled to get an awesome item but instead it was just a mimic kind of annoying...
Post edited by uptondarkdiamond on
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
The thing with rewards is, the more people with access to them, the lesser the value. So you can't add good rewards and keep 'em as good rewards.
I'm a bit tired of having to say this in every thread involving the RNG and/or rewards, but EVERYONE KNOWS ABOUT BASIC SUPPLY AND DEMAND. IT ONLY TAKES A TINY AMOUNT OF IMAGINATION TO FIGURE OUT A REWARD THAT IS ALWAYS WORTHWHILE, LIKE ASTRAL DIAMONDS OR VALUABLE SALVAGE.
(puts down megaphone)
It is entirely unhelpful and unproductive to feed Cryptic even one voice that for some self-hating reason doesn't want worthwhile rewards.
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
The thing with rewards is, the more people with access to them, the lesser the value. So you can't add good rewards and keep 'em as good rewards.
I'm a bit tired of having to say this in every thread involving the RNG and/or rewards, but EVERYONE KNOWS ABOUT BASIC SUPPLY AND DEMAND. IT ONLY TAKES A TINY AMOUNT OF IMAGINATION TO FIGURE OUT A REWARD THAT IS ALWAYS WORTHWHILE, LIKE ASTRAL DIAMONDS OR VALUABLE SALVAGE.
(puts down megaphone)
It is entirely unhelpful and unproductive to feed Cryptic even one voice that for some self-hating reason doesn't want worthwhile rewards.
I never said that... With your comment on Lockboxes, I'm saying the rewards value won't stay where it is. I didn't say I don't want worthwhile. If every dungeon run gave you a SMoP, they'd go for 5k in the AH, the reward you thought would be cool no longer is though this is welcome to as upgrades get a whole lot cheaper, but its no longer 'rewarding', that's what I'm trying to tell you.
It ain't an easy task.
BtW, you already get Astral Diamonds and 'valuable' salvage, so you want the 'rewards' to continue?
@mimicking#6533 People would love to see mount skins and other cosmetics added to loot tables, personally, I think what would be cool to see would be BoE 500/1000 stat mount equip powers. AKA green/blue mount powers you can use or throw on the AH. Maybe even a chance at epic ones for CN/FBI/eDemo/Tia?/new raid? Dunno if epics would happen but green and blue powers would be a cool way to get a bit more of a certain stat you need.
Maybe something similar could be done with mount combat powers and just make weaker versions of each (probably would have to come up with some new ones, legendary mount bonuses should do a lot of damage though while the others basically scale down from there)? I say this since some mount insignia bonuses require a mount combat power but currently the only way to acquire that is via a legendary mount. For example, maybe a epic version of the tenser power is 6% more power + 6% speed and +1 to strength/dex/con/AC while a rare version might be like 3% power + 3% speed and +1 con/AC? Just some thoughts on what would be cool to see. Mount combat tokens as a BoE drop would be amazing. Like I mentioned on the equip stats/powers epics could be a CN/FBI/raid possible drop.
Increased legendary ring drops (preferably also allowing the underdark rings to drop from everywhere, +1/+2s mainly from skirmishes/T1 dungeons while T2s have a higher chance at epic vs rare and CN shouldn't drop rare rings at all).
Legendary are already BoA so I don't see a huge issue with increasing the drop rate some. I would really like a way to trade +4/+5 rings for the one you want, that would be great. I got literally the most useless +5 and all my other eDemo and CN runs give nothing anymore. It's insanely rare for me to get a +4 anymore while in the first few days of CN I got quite a few by running only it. Now if I do half a dozen runs I get just junk.
I would love to see every boss drop SOMETHING guaranteed, be it RP (peridot, sapphire etc) some ruined gear or some other T1/T2 gear based on if the dungeon is T1 or T2. IMO for CN and other high level content +1/2s shouldn't even be a drop in the end chest since they are so worthless. The other thing is in the second CN chest a shard of shadowclad should never be the only drop, it should be paired with an enchant/runestone or a piece of salvage. Nothing annoys me more than running CN, bosses dropping absolutely NOTHING then then end box is a +1/+2 and the 2nd box is the same or sometimes only has a shadowclad box and a bit of artifact RP.
Someone mentioned a chance at BoP artifacts, that's cool but kind of screws you if another character needs it not the one you're on. I would love to see things being BoA rather than character bound. The current weapons are a great example. It makes the game far more alt friendly.
I know in 10.5 or whatever you would like to call it you can craft the elemental weapons but I believe they bind to character (I may be mistaken, not sure) but if so I would love to see them bind to account on equip not to the character.
The insignias should really at least be bound to account rather than character too. It's such a pain getting one you know X character needs but oh too bad, bound to this guy now. These are things that frustrate people.
Please thinking about making the tiamat hoard more obtainable. In the four months I've played I've seen it at 100% twice. The second time it was literally for only two runs. Not even having to change the rewards cuz I personally know of 6 people that got the orb during those two runs. It's just literally impossible on xbox unless people save for months and a lot of people at that
There is nothing the devs can do about tiamat's hoard... it is entirely up to the players to contribute.
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thegreatmikeyMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 122Arc User
All right. I posted in the hopes of being part of a growing group here in the forums that would get noticed AND responded to, but I did not actually expect it to happen. I appreciate this. Thank you.
Now for what I want. I am a greedy Mikey. I am also a very old school D&D player. I am talking about the old '70's Chainmail box set where the highest level was 12 and 12 hit die dragons were a big deal! You have been warned.
I want the Eye and Hand of Vecna! AND I want the Sword of Kas! I want those pieces of D&D history added to the game! I dunno what form it would be in, artifacts, a storyline, or some form I never thought of. I don't care that these items are World of Greyhawk stuff. Bring 'em in anyway! It's why creativity was invented. You could even make them replicas like the Apocalypse Dagger. It would be cool if they re-skinned your hand and/or eye when slotted too.
Oh yeah. Loot chest stuff. I guess that should be mentioned. I would like to see "stackables." By that I mean stuff you could add on to a piece of gear you already have to make it better, much like the armour and gem upgrade kits you can get via professions. I think this would be useful for every tier of gear. I remember a gaming buddy who really liked her Dragon Weapon and Off Hand stuff, but it was under-powered after Elemental weapons and off hands came along. She was unhappy because she'd laboured hard to get them and that labour was made irrelevant in here eyes. Well, what a great way to make keeping that weapon (without just using it as a re-skin) viable. You could have them stack on each other in a number relevant to the gear piece's tier (so the top tier could use 1, the next down 2, the next down 3, etc). It would also lighten the amount of work you'd have to do to make new stuff. All that modelling work and man hours of labour going into it could be skipped (and as someone who is horrible with technology and does not understand it I know that I am right ). I dunno if this is possible, but even if it's not, I want you to do it anyway.
I must be dreaming... You actually...Responded...To feedback?
Well, here is my loot feedback then:
Feedback: Loot
When you finish a dungeon, you need to feel as if the time you invested was rewarded in some way. With the current system, the problem is, the AD you earn can pretty much be calculated as AD per dungeon run/time to finish dungeon. Pre mod 6, this was slightly different, as you would have to run different pieces of content to get different pieces of gear. If you wanted the best helmet for your class for example, you had to run spellplague, where as if you wanted the boots, you had to run FH. As it currently stands, all the best gear comes from a single piece of content and unlike in the past, that gear is bound. Outside of the gear, the loot from the dungeon is essentially the same as any other piece of content and you may as well run eToS. There is no relation between difficulty of content and reward.
What this means is that once you have your gear, there is no reason to run FBI. However, there is a further problem with FBI. The gear only drops in the second chest, which you need to use either a legendary dragon key for, or open once per day. This is essentially gating the only stuff that you want to get, behind a chest that you can only open once per day. The thing is, a dungeon should be rewarding regardless of whether you have a special key or not, the key should not be the only reason to run it. It is time that bosses dropped loot again and the loot needs to be good.
Currently, we have a completely useless need/greed/pass system. With the original loot system in the game, this made sense, but as it stands now, it is not utilized at all. I suggest adding loot that is actually worth need/greed/passing on, so the system serves some purpose.
Now, with regards to chests. When a player opens a chest, the contents of the chest must always be worth more than it costs to open the chest. This means that if you are opening a normal chest, the contents must always be worth more than 5k AD and if you are opening a chest with a legendary dragon key, the contents must always be worth more than 25k AD. When designing loot going forward, you should keep this in mind. Ideally, the value of the loot should be twice the cost of opening the chest, this way it actually feels rewarding.
What I would suggest is that the loot in the normal chest is always an epic chest piece or better, whilst there is a guaranteed rank 8 enchantment in the legendary dragon key chest. The normal chest could then have a chance of rank 8's in content like edemo or CN and the contents of the chest in fbi could have a chance at a rank 9.
These are just my initial thoughts though, I would have to mull over it for a few weeks to come up with a fully fledged idea.
This
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arcticblitzMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 126Arc User
M.K thanks for listening, I now really look forward to seeing some well thought out but timely action taking place.
Before getting into my suggestions, Would you please let us know :
#1 How the decision was made to make the change ( i.e Dev meeting , Lone Dev or executive ect.) #2 How the decision to communicate the change was made #3 What the Dev and Executive team have learned from this experience ( not to be critical or witch-hunt , my professional life i have a fair amount of experience in successful change management and honestly i'd like to help)
Suggestions.
knowing you have limited resources i.e "i have $10 to spend on lunch" from the live feed comment. I've seen some great feedback in this thread and the original given that some require rewriting systems I suggest a 2 phase approach:
1. Up the chances : Do it in the next update on all chests without removing the peak option , Make no mistake your player base is wounded stop the bleeding, show them not just tell them they have been heard. - Legendary Rings ect due to the random nature of the ring your getting 10 - 15% chance - Artifact gear / artifacts (we to have invest / grind RP into these things anyway so they should drop more readily)+ 4 rings ect 25 -30 % chance
2. Reboot the loot: - Move things in game: Coal Wards / Pres Wards / Greater and Sup Marks / Companion tokens - RNG must be tempered with other ways to gain gear / loot .. tokens ect at a reasonable rate. - Publish the drop chances and loot tables along with the calculations you have used to determine the drop rate for feedback - As above any item in the game that needs Refining / repairing should be easy to acquire (ie reward for completing a quest line )as the work to get it up to max level is enough of a gate or cost.
I'll leave it there as a have a more feedback on rewards ect but i don't want to de-rail a chest specific loot thread.
Post edited by arcticblitz on
Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger Guild Founder: -HunterS-
What i would really like to see more than anything else in a dungeon chest as a possible reward are Coal Wards. Having them available only through invoking coffers (at a minuscule drop rate) in-game is sad and the price being asked on the zen store is outrageous.
This is a great idea. I would also like to see the drop rate of +5 orange rings upped. I have received 1 out of I don't know how many chests that I have opened.
Well, the company is not willfully suicidal, so that's encouraging, and at least it wasn't called a bug again (but also wasn't called 'not a bug').
To be honest, this key change wouldn't have effected me too much anyway, but it's because I largely gave up on dungeons months ago. Not only are the rewards not worth the cost of a LDK, they're hardly worth the time and effort to make a free key and run the dungeon. I've been occupying myself by trying to catch my alts up on their campaigns, skipping SKT of course lol. On SKT, by the time I got my main enough EFR to qualify for Fangbreaker, no one runs it anymore. I'm only a 3.3k CW, and my only shoe-in is my soon-to-be-extinct HV set. I'm not sure I'll even get to run it once to unlock the upper tier trial for next mod. The work-to-loot ratio is apparently THAT bad.
Anyway, here are ideas off the top of my head, many of which have been iterated by others:
- Key/Chest feedback: 1.) Companion Tokens, Wards, purple+ Marks, blue+ Insignias, higher Enchants, higher Refinement stones (universal stones like Black Opals). You know, the usual. 2.) Add a drop-rate accumulator (or pity counter) for campaign items like Lanolin and Relic Gear, for both Chests and HEs (would have done wonders for ye olden Black Ice Weapons/Gloves!). The more times you open a chest or complete a HE, the more likely something useful will drop, then starts over. For actual gear, like Relic gear, there could be a failsafe like a guaranteed drop after so-many HEs. 3.) More specifically, guarantee (at least) one Lanolin drop from completing Fangbreaker Island. (I... I can't call it FBI... ) 4.) No more blue equipment from keyed chests, period. Purple+ only. 5.) Either add a way to buy legendary gear like +5 rings for a metric hamster-ton of campaign resources (so we can at least work towards something), a way to upgrade lesser versions through Professions (so Professions actually have a use), or the 'mercy tokens' others have suggested. 6.) Keyring. 7.) Or if not a keyring, unify all the special keys into one. Basically, all the campaign key tasks create Legendary Dragon Keys, or you can buy them if you want/need more. This would be even better than a keyring. 8.) Reduce crafting times and/or currency needed to create keys. 9.) Add 1 Legendary Dragon Key per account per day from rank 13+ VIP (in the same bag as the Enchanted Key).
- General Loot feedback: 1.) Smaller variety of refining items and/or a unification of some of the current varieties. 2.) Reduce different binding levels for refinement goods (BoE, BtA, BtC, BtA type 2, BtC type 2, etc.), and for all items in general. The ONLY items that should EVER be BtC are BoE items that have actually been equipped. Period. 3.) Remove the 2nd Enchant needed to upgrade below Rank 10. It might actually make Coal Wards remotely worth the price. 4.) Black Ice Empowerment? Again?! le sigh...
- General QoL improvements, because why not?: 1.) Reduce the Tyranny of Dragons Linu grind. I know you just released the "buy your way out of Tiamat hell" Zen Pack, so it'll be a while, but the easiest fix would probably be to add a Linu to the Demonic HE daily quest in WoD. That would put it in line with the accelerated campaign progress that was added for Dread Ring and IWD. 2.) FOUNDRY!!! Also, make Foundries worthwhile to run. 3.) DUNGEONS!!! (more specifically, if you're adding Master Level Dungeons, make the Master Level Castle Never an up-leveled relaunch of the full-length, old CN. Please.) 4.) FASHION TAB!!! 5.) Give us an option to turn off Enchant visuals. You could make more money from Fashions this way!
When I’m reading on the forums that Aulduron opened 1,000 chests and used only a dozen keys on rewards he liked, this made me get my team really looking into the bigger issue here. The Rewards. Not just the rewards but the percentage chances of getting them.
We hear you. I hear you. We are going to fix this.
So, here’s what we are going to do. We are pulling back the dungeon key change for our upcoming update, Sea of Moving Ice, and scheduling time to evaluate and rebuild the rewards for the dungeon chests. This change will still happen, but when it does it will be with better rewards and a much better chance of actually getting the chase loot. Once the change is in, the plan is to schedule updates to these rewards each major expansion so that there is reason to revisit the dungeons.
With that in mind, we would love to hear from you. What do you want to see in your Dungeon chests? I’m serious about this. Your feedback is important. Reply in this post!
Regards, Thomas “Mimic King” Foss
Thank you. This is very welcome news.
If the change to use a key when viewing a chest does go ahead, then you need to make an incentive for us to make the key and/or buy a legendary dragon key.
Factor in the costs of obtaining a key Making the key requires time to gather resources (1 hour +), and time to make the key (20 hours), hence it will be a rate limiting step for many where we will only be able to get a key every day. The price of a legendary dragon key would be around 25k AD converting from Zen at the proposed new price.
At what rate should top tier items be given out The next question is, for these players, how many runs do you think is fair before they receive a useful drop? In the case for Demogorgon a decent drop is a +5 ring; not just that, but a ring which is actually useful. A drop every 20-50 runs, or 2-5%, would be a fair balance between grind and reward, bearing in mind that crappy real life RNG would make getting an actual desirable +5 ring still quite scarce (i.e this will take 20-50 days to achieve), unless one is incentivised to buy a legendary dragon key.
There should be a baseline reward for making or buying the key so that it is worthwhile Making the key itself should not be a losing proposition - the rewards will have to outweigh the cost of making it (1+ hour of in-game play, plus the 20 hour wait to make the key). Depending on the player, the rate of AD gain per hour can be anywhere from 4-50k AD on average, depending on the salvageability of loot and the daily AD rewards for completing quests. Hence, a key should yield, in my opinion, at least a value of 25k AD in either salvage, or equivalent items in refining stones or gems etc. This is in-line with the price of buying a legendary dragon key from the Zen store and should not necessarily deter people from buying the legendary dragon key.
Determine if chest rewards are scaled to degree of success i.e. Gold, Silver, Bronze I do not necessarily think that the rewards in the chest should reflect the degree of success in the instance (i.e. bronze, silver, gold), as you may see people pre-emptively kicking people from the instance, or excluding newer players from joining groups, which would not be good in attracting and retaining newer players.
However, one could wait to use the key when one achieves a gold rating. So, if the degree of success determines chest rewards then this should be made clear (e.g. with a warning) before opening up the chest in a bronze or silver rating.
As a general comment to loot I will say: You have been too careful with releasing loot and rewards into the game recently.
This goes both for chest rewards and for the amount of grind required for the 'easily' available loot.
The Voninblod requirements for SKT should be halved all over, and the Voninblod maintenance costs on the armor should be reduced by 75% at least. You might want to review 10.5 cost/reward levels according to this.
As for suggestions on chest contents: * Existing chest rares, but at higher probability * Purple insignias * Companion only gear(this is an obvious one )
All over the probabily of getting the *good* loot when blind-opening a chest needs to be around 10%, at least each 10th chest need to give good stuff in addition to the RP trash.
@pterias you have lots of great idea's and would like to comment on a few.
Key/Chest feed back Item 2. This is generally a good idea it would go a long way to minimizing/normalizing RnG. The only thing that I would add is with items like the Boots that drop from HE's in Brynshander if you get one style of boot the drop-rate accumulator when it goes off should give you the other style of boot. This is a problem for many, they get lucky with the boot drop but it turns out to be the same one as the ones they got before and they don't want need. I can comment on FBI and getting armor drops but I suspect that people run into the same problem there..
of course making these items available with campaign store would be better imho, but if Cryptic is going to stick with RnG method for getting gear they seriously need to consider something like this... otherwise getting the same but unwanted item over and over again make for unhappy gamers.....
So, +1 on drop-rate accumulator as long as you don't end up with same item as the previous sat check ;p.
Item 6. and 7. If we can't get a key ring then i'm in agreement, there should only be 1 campaign style key.... so many keys....
General Loot feedback Item 2. I wholeheartedly agree with this statement very few things should be bind to character straight off. With RP is should only be bind to account (stuff received from VIP bags and various enchants) the rest should not be bound. 3 different bind level make inventory management a pain and take extra space.
Item 3. You know I never thought about the extra enchant need and how it affects coal/pres wards but you make an excellent point. Getting rid of the second gem requirement almost makes coal wards a bearable price....
The thing with rewards is, the more people with access to them, the lesser the value. So you can't add good rewards and keep 'em as good rewards.
That isn't nice. People will continue to need your 'Super Rare' and 'Limited Number' drops. That's the system we have now, though not limited, and is hated. This isn't a good idea. If it were something cosmetic like iron zerg suggested, fine. But a Mythic mount (please, those reading, don't bring these) ain't cosmetic. All things that add to your character's performance have to be reasonably obtainable.
There are different reasons for people wanting to play the game for those who actually want to run quests, dungeons and campaigns, that usually necessitates being able to get good gear one way or another, so I personally kind of doubt items considered "good rewards" will lose their value, especially if there continues to be in influx of new players and people who enjoy the game invest in more characters who themselves will need some of those "good rewards" stuff, (back to that supply and demand point again).
Now for those who primarially want to play the game by buying and selling stuff in the Auction House, they could well see a decline in their former profits because as more things become available instead of being able to charge exceptionally high prices for the items they want to sell they will have to price those items at a cost the market will bear, instead of sitting back and watching their profits roll in from high priced items in the Auction House, they might actually have to get out and find specific items people are willing to pay more for.
I do agree that the present system seems to be less than desireable in many respects and I completely agree with your point that items that add to a players performance should be "reasonably obtainable", but also keep in mind as I said different players have different reasons for wanting to play. What one person may consider "reasonable", another player may think "lacks challenge" and for at least some people cosmetics (fashion, one of each kind of companion/mount, etc.) is just as important to them as making a profit or running content will be to others.
It is an unenviable task the developers have, trying to please everyone or lacking that, the majority (which is not always the most vocal) but they've done a pretty decent job so far it seems - or none of us would be here having this discussion.
And that's my opinion.
DD~
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
First, thank you for pulling back on the change BEFORE fixing the loot, and not after.
Second, since you asked for it and I cannot resist giving opinions, here's mine:
Stop being so crazy stingy with gear upgrades in chests, like the Legendary Rings. If you're going to dangle gear upgrades in front of players, make them obtainable. We know the drop rates on Legendary stuff is anywhere from 1:2000 to 1:5000. That's unbelievably painful for players when it comes to gear being obtainable. And my biggest fear for 10b is that the Legendary marks will be so soul-crushingly rare for players, that those Legendary ranks might as well not even exist.
So make the gear obtainable by committed players. If you anticipate a level of content is going to be the top for the next 90-120 days, then make the drop rates reward players who commit to that content for 90-120 days.
On the flip side, I'm fine with the super low drop rate items, but make these "extras". Rare mounts, companions, cosmetics, etc...stuff that people WANT but don't view as NEEDS.
For example, what if a 1:5000 reward for the new 10b content was a BoE mount that was basically a Frost Giant that your rode around on his back? That would be cool as heck, but viewed as an optional reward that added to your prestige as a player, but not add to your overall power. Or rare frost giant cosmetic skins for weapons or armor? Stuff that helps you stand out from the other players, but isn't viewed as a "must have" for a "best in slot" character. Like Drufi's greatsword would be a killer skin for a GWF (no pun intended), and would probably sell well as a rare BoE cosmetic drop, but people aren't going to get frustrated if they never see a cosmetic drop (for the most part).
And you could do this across all the content. Themed mounts, companions and cosmetics for all the dungeons. Cool Drow themed spider mounts or companions, and outfits for Temple of the Spider. Sweet pirate stuff from Cragmire Crypts. Wolf-themed drops form Grey Wolf...stuff like that. Make them all BoE and sellable on the AH. For two reasons. One, you'll give people rare "cash" drops they can sell. Two, you'll naturally create incentives for people to run different dungeons. If everyone is running Lostmauth or Temple because it's fast, you'll see a lot of those themed drops on the AH, meaning they'll be worth less. But the drops from GWD might be more expensive because they're more rare...so there's incentives for people to try to farm those.
So when you think about how do you make chest loot exciting, think about what a player views as a NEED and what could be a great WANT, and mix these in so that a player always feels like completing a challenge and getting the loot is worth their time.
like the grey wolf helm for gwf yaaaaassss please, its an amazing transmute for my "gromash" orc gwf, if not dungeon drop, then zen shop for some income real money maybe
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
Please thinking about making the tiamat hoard more obtainable. In the four months I've played I've seen it at 100% twice. The second time it was literally for only two runs. Not even having to change the rewards cuz I personally know of 6 people that got the orb during those two runs. It's just literally impossible on xbox unless people save for months and a lot of people at that
There is nothing the devs can do about tiamat's hoard... it is entirely up to the players to contribute.
They can, they have once already, the quantity required is in the hands of the devs.
Comments
2) The overhaul SHOULD INCLUDE LOCKBOXES. Far too often, the reward for opening a lockbox is useless and/or worthless. You want people to spend more money? Give them rewards that are worth it.
3) In general, stop giving players reason to resent the RNG.
A bronze win should get you a piece of equipment *at least* the same level as your lowest piece of gear (not including artefacts, or underclothes), and a low chance of getting something the same level as your highest piece of gear. The refining stone should be green with a chance of blue.
Bronze chests can be skipped by good players who already have strong gear.
A silver win should get you a piece of armour at least the same level as your gear *average* (so if you have mostly iL120 gear, you'd get at least a 120 item) with a low-medium chance of something higher. The refining stone should be blue with a chance of purple.
Silver rewards can be skipped by high endgame players.
A gold win should absolutely always get you gear the same level as your highest piece of kit. Stone should be purple. Gold should always feel like a victory and you should never, *ever* feel disappointed opening a chest. No excuses.
Nobody should want to skip gold rewards, they should always improve your character, even if just a little. If you could guarantee that gold wins would alwaysget you better gear, you would make an absolute ton from keys.
A reward system like this could also scale wonderfully across all instances, dungeons and skirmishes.
And thankyou for communicating with us on this. Really, it's refreshing to see devs try and repair community relations like this.
Oh, and please correctly label Tuern and Kessel as skirmishes, it's really confusing for newbies.
Secondly, my suggestion of these Super Rare, Limited-numbered weapons are that they should only drop once a week or so. And meant to drop 'on top of everything else', aside from the final loot tables that Cryptic decides on. Essentially an extra, superjackpot prize.
If I take the current lockbox as example. Imagine super rare Mythic Mounts are added 'on top of everything else'. Then:
a) More keys will be used.
b) No change in desirability and use of keys.
c) Less keys will be used.
Of course the correct answer is a). I'm not saying add Mythic Mounts to the lockbox. I'm saying if they did the same tact with the chest 'on top of everything else' then they can increase the desirability, and thus VALUE, of the keys.
Cryptic and it's team has really improved in the past 3 years, and your decision to withdraw this change clearly highlights that.
A+
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Thankyou
Its simple & you already know the answer. Stop putting rubbish in them so that people want to actually open them & get what's inside rather than work your way through a dungeon, have a look & then don't bother opening it because there's nothing of value in there.
side editorial:
I really wish you would do away with all wards and marks in the game and make percentage of sucess 100%. It angers people to the point of quitting the game when they have earned the RP to refine somthing that is suposed to have a 10% chance for sucess and use 60+ preservation wards at a cost of around 6K AD each to get it done (give us a break). I know that sounds like an extreme senario, but it isn't, it happens quite a bit, and people who have been in the game awhile have all had to talk a friend down off the ledge because of it. Just makes players feel cheated and ripped off and we don't need that in the game. Let the upgrades happen when they should.
Ok, off the soapbox now. If we can't do away with wards and marks, then letting these items drop from chests would help to make refining less frustrating. they don't need to drop often, but enough that people see it as a real possability for reward.
Now a question, is it just me or when Superior Marks of Potency were first discussed for refining didn't they say we would only need two to refine and item?? I'm probably wrong about this but have been curious for awhile about it.
Thanks again for listening to the players
So realistically what I'd like to see is whatever pops out of chests opened with a key to have some value either to the progression of the player's character or their finances, which to me primarially means much less bound to character items, unless those items can be used for refinement or something like that.
Items not bound to character but bound to account can be given to a player's alternate characters so it has worth and it might even encourage players to purchase character slots and create new characters if they have items their current characters can't use.
Now if someone has their character slots maxed out and every one of their alts outfitted with the best available gear - then they don't really need much by way of drops anyway IMO, usually those types of characters are just playing for profit to advance their personal wealth they can still do so with the third kind of drop mentioned next.
The items not bound to character - not salvagable - not able to be used for refining and not bound to account can be sold in the Auction House, maybe to make up the total cost of a key (doubtful) or to at least make up a portion of the cost of a key...
Something is better than nothing and the price one gets for items in the AH largely depends on the desireability (and price) of that item. Priced too high and fewer people will be interested/able to buy it - supply and demand, simple marketing.
Also what I would like to see is an ocasional even rare Astral Diamond, or WOW! item drop...
We get those damn annoying (my opinion) Admin notices, in two places one on the chat window and one on the HUD, about what people get from lock boxes and for some that may promote a 'wow factor' that encourages them to buy keys and open lock boxes... I am NOT suggesting more annoying Admin notices when someone gets a legendary mount, ruinic bag, level 12 rune or whatever from a chest, but word of mouth is one of the best and cheapest marketing tools any company can have...
If or rather when, (you know it's going to happen) people start bragging about the phenominal item they pulled out of a chest, other people are going to see that and think "Maybe I should buy some keys and run a few of those dungeons" more players enticed to purchase keys and run content for the chance for that rare expeptional drop - more people buying keys and VIP to get keys for that same chance and knowing that regardless of what they get it will have some practical use to them.
Those are my thoughts anyway.
I don't think that every chest needs to return the value of the key, but over time a player should get rewarded and be in front if they spends $$ or time grinding in the game. But it shouldn't be that you need to get a 1 in a 100 drop to make the reward worthwhile and everything else is HAMSTER.
So after the loot gets a "reboot", here is an idea for a surprise . . . . . how about a small chance for the chest to turn into a Mimick with no way to tell until you open the thing
thumbs up -
I will give you a +1 for the mimic idea! Make it a boss mimic, as long as it doesn't happen so often where it becomes annoying. I think it would actually be an interesting twist to opening a treasure chest. I think you would still have to have a decent drop after the mimic dies, otherwise that could be bad also.... Like ohh look I just rolled to get an awesome item but instead it was just a mimic kind of annoying...
(puts down megaphone)
It is entirely unhelpful and unproductive to feed Cryptic even one voice that for some self-hating reason doesn't want worthwhile rewards.
It ain't an easy task.
BtW, you already get Astral Diamonds and 'valuable' salvage, so you want the 'rewards' to continue?
Maybe something similar could be done with mount combat powers and just make weaker versions of each (probably would have to come up with some new ones, legendary mount bonuses should do a lot of damage though while the others basically scale down from there)? I say this since some mount insignia bonuses require a mount combat power but currently the only way to acquire that is via a legendary mount. For example, maybe a epic version of the tenser power is 6% more power + 6% speed and +1 to strength/dex/con/AC while a rare version might be like 3% power + 3% speed and +1 con/AC? Just some thoughts on what would be cool to see. Mount combat tokens as a BoE drop would be amazing. Like I mentioned on the equip stats/powers epics could be a CN/FBI/raid possible drop.
Increased legendary ring drops (preferably also allowing the underdark rings to drop from everywhere, +1/+2s mainly from skirmishes/T1 dungeons while T2s have a higher chance at epic vs rare and CN shouldn't drop rare rings at all).
Legendary are already BoA so I don't see a huge issue with increasing the drop rate some. I would really like a way to trade +4/+5 rings for the one you want, that would be great. I got literally the most useless +5 and all my other eDemo and CN runs give nothing anymore. It's insanely rare for me to get a +4 anymore while in the first few days of CN I got quite a few by running only it. Now if I do half a dozen runs I get just junk.
I would love to see every boss drop SOMETHING guaranteed, be it RP (peridot, sapphire etc) some ruined gear or some other T1/T2 gear based on if the dungeon is T1 or T2. IMO for CN and other high level content +1/2s shouldn't even be a drop in the end chest since they are so worthless. The other thing is in the second CN chest a shard of shadowclad should never be the only drop, it should be paired with an enchant/runestone or a piece of salvage. Nothing annoys me more than running CN, bosses dropping absolutely NOTHING then then end box is a +1/+2 and the 2nd box is the same or sometimes only has a shadowclad box and a bit of artifact RP.
Someone mentioned a chance at BoP artifacts, that's cool but kind of screws you if another character needs it not the one you're on. I would love to see things being BoA rather than character bound. The current weapons are a great example. It makes the game far more alt friendly.
I know in 10.5 or whatever you would like to call it you can craft the elemental weapons but I believe they bind to character (I may be mistaken, not sure) but if so I would love to see them bind to account on equip not to the character.
The insignias should really at least be bound to account rather than character too. It's such a pain getting one you know X character needs but oh too bad, bound to this guy now. These are things that frustrate people.
Now for what I want. I am a greedy Mikey. I am also a very old school D&D player. I am talking about the old '70's Chainmail box set where the highest level was 12 and 12 hit die dragons were a big deal! You have been warned.
I want the Eye and Hand of Vecna! AND I want the Sword of Kas! I want those pieces of D&D history added to the game! I dunno what form it would be in, artifacts, a storyline, or some form I never thought of. I don't care that these items are World of Greyhawk stuff. Bring 'em in anyway! It's why creativity was invented. You could even make them replicas like the Apocalypse Dagger. It would be cool if they re-skinned your hand and/or eye when slotted too.
Oh yeah. Loot chest stuff. I guess that should be mentioned. I would like to see "stackables." By that I mean stuff you could add on to a piece of gear you already have to make it better, much like the armour and gem upgrade kits you can get via professions. I think this would be useful for every tier of gear. I remember a gaming buddy who really liked her Dragon Weapon and Off Hand stuff, but it was under-powered after Elemental weapons and off hands came along. She was unhappy because she'd laboured hard to get them and that labour was made irrelevant in here eyes. Well, what a great way to make keeping that weapon (without just using it as a re-skin) viable. You could have them stack on each other in a number relevant to the gear piece's tier (so the top tier could use 1, the next down 2, the next down 3, etc). It would also lighten the amount of work you'd have to do to make new stuff. All that modelling work and man hours of labour going into it could be skipped (and as someone who is horrible with technology and does not understand it I know that I am right
M.K thanks for listening, I now really look forward to seeing some well thought out but timely action taking place.
Before getting into my suggestions, Would you please let us know :
#1 How the decision was made to make the change ( i.e Dev meeting , Lone Dev or executive ect.)
#2 How the decision to communicate the change was made
#3 What the Dev and Executive team have learned from this experience
( not to be critical or witch-hunt , my professional life i have a fair amount of experience in successful change management and honestly i'd like to help)
Suggestions.
knowing you have limited resources i.e "i have $10 to spend on lunch" from the live feed comment. I've seen some great feedback in this thread and the original given that some require rewriting systems I suggest a 2 phase approach:
1. Up the chances : Do it in the next update on all chests without removing the peak option , Make no mistake your player base is wounded stop the bleeding, show them not just tell them they have been heard.
- Legendary Rings ect due to the random nature of the ring your getting 10 - 15% chance
- Artifact gear / artifacts (we to have invest / grind RP into these things anyway so they should drop more readily)+ 4 rings ect 25 -30 % chance
2. Reboot the loot:
- Move things in game: Coal Wards / Pres Wards / Greater and Sup Marks / Companion tokens
- RNG must be tempered with other ways to gain gear / loot .. tokens ect at a reasonable rate.
- Publish the drop chances and loot tables along with the calculations you have used to determine the drop rate for feedback
- As above any item in the game that needs Refining / repairing should be easy to acquire (ie reward for completing a quest line )as the work to get it up to max level is enough of a gate or cost.
I'll leave it there as a have a more feedback on rewards ect but i don't want to de-rail a chest specific loot thread.
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
To be honest, this key change wouldn't have effected me too much anyway, but it's because I largely gave up on dungeons months ago. Not only are the rewards not worth the cost of a LDK, they're hardly worth the time and effort to make a free key and run the dungeon. I've been occupying myself by trying to catch my alts up on their campaigns, skipping SKT of course lol. On SKT, by the time I got my main enough EFR to qualify for Fangbreaker, no one runs it anymore. I'm only a 3.3k CW, and my only shoe-in is my soon-to-be-extinct HV set. I'm not sure I'll even get to run it once to unlock the upper tier trial for next mod. The work-to-loot ratio is apparently THAT bad.
Anyway, here are ideas off the top of my head, many of which have been iterated by others:
- Key/Chest feedback:
1.) Companion Tokens, Wards, purple+ Marks, blue+ Insignias, higher Enchants, higher Refinement stones (universal stones like Black Opals). You know, the usual.
2.) Add a drop-rate accumulator (or pity counter) for campaign items like Lanolin and Relic Gear, for both Chests and HEs (would have done wonders for ye olden Black Ice Weapons/Gloves!). The more times you open a chest or complete a HE, the more likely something useful will drop, then starts over. For actual gear, like Relic gear, there could be a failsafe like a guaranteed drop after so-many HEs.
3.) More specifically, guarantee (at least) one Lanolin drop from completing Fangbreaker Island. (I... I can't call it FBI...
4.) No more blue equipment from keyed chests, period. Purple+ only.
5.) Either add a way to buy legendary gear like +5 rings for a metric hamster-ton of campaign resources (so we can at least work towards something), a way to upgrade lesser versions through Professions (so Professions actually have a use), or the 'mercy tokens' others have suggested.
6.) Keyring.
7.) Or if not a keyring, unify all the special keys into one. Basically, all the campaign key tasks create Legendary Dragon Keys, or you can buy them if you want/need more. This would be even better than a keyring.
8.) Reduce crafting times and/or currency needed to create keys.
9.) Add 1 Legendary Dragon Key per account per day from rank 13+ VIP (in the same bag as the Enchanted Key).
- General Loot feedback:
1.) Smaller variety of refining items and/or a unification of some of the current varieties.
2.) Reduce different binding levels for refinement goods (BoE, BtA, BtC, BtA type 2, BtC type 2, etc.), and for all items in general. The ONLY items that should EVER be BtC are BoE items that have actually been equipped. Period.
3.) Remove the 2nd Enchant needed to upgrade below Rank 10. It might actually make Coal Wards remotely worth the price.
4.) Black Ice Empowerment? Again?! le sigh...
- General QoL improvements, because why not?:
1.) Reduce the Tyranny of Dragons Linu grind. I know you just released the "buy your way out of Tiamat hell" Zen Pack, so it'll be a while, but the easiest fix would probably be to add a Linu to the Demonic HE daily quest in WoD. That would put it in line with the accelerated campaign progress that was added for Dread Ring and IWD.
2.) FOUNDRY!!! Also, make Foundries worthwhile to run.
3.) DUNGEONS!!! (more specifically, if you're adding Master Level Dungeons, make the Master Level Castle Never an up-leveled relaunch of the full-length, old CN. Please.)
4.) FASHION TAB!!!
5.) Give us an option to turn off Enchant visuals. You could make more money from Fashions this way!
If the change to use a key when viewing a chest does go ahead, then you need to make an incentive for us to make the key and/or buy a legendary dragon key.
Factor in the costs of obtaining a key
Making the key requires time to gather resources (1 hour +), and time to make the key (20 hours), hence it will be a rate limiting step for many where we will only be able to get a key every day.
The price of a legendary dragon key would be around 25k AD converting from Zen at the proposed new price.
At what rate should top tier items be given out
The next question is, for these players, how many runs do you think is fair before they receive a useful drop? In the case for Demogorgon a decent drop is a +5 ring; not just that, but a ring which is actually useful. A drop every 20-50 runs, or 2-5%, would be a fair balance between grind and reward, bearing in mind that crappy real life RNG would make getting an actual desirable +5 ring still quite scarce (i.e this will take 20-50 days to achieve), unless one is incentivised to buy a legendary dragon key.
There should be a baseline reward for making or buying the key so that it is worthwhile
Making the key itself should not be a losing proposition - the rewards will have to outweigh the cost of making it (1+ hour of in-game play, plus the 20 hour wait to make the key). Depending on the player, the rate of AD gain per hour can be anywhere from 4-50k AD on average, depending on the salvageability of loot and the daily AD rewards for completing quests. Hence, a key should yield, in my opinion, at least a value of 25k AD in either salvage, or equivalent items in refining stones or gems etc. This is in-line with the price of buying a legendary dragon key from the Zen store and should not necessarily deter people from buying the legendary dragon key.
Determine if chest rewards are scaled to degree of success i.e. Gold, Silver, Bronze
I do not necessarily think that the rewards in the chest should reflect the degree of success in the instance (i.e. bronze, silver, gold), as you may see people pre-emptively kicking people from the instance, or excluding newer players from joining groups, which would not be good in attracting and retaining newer players.
However, one could wait to use the key when one achieves a gold rating. So, if the degree of success determines chest rewards then this should be made clear (e.g. with a warning) before opening up the chest in a bronze or silver rating.
As a general comment to loot I will say:
You have been too careful with releasing loot and rewards into the game recently.
This goes both for chest rewards and for the amount of grind required for the 'easily' available loot.
The Voninblod requirements for SKT should be halved all over, and the Voninblod maintenance costs on the armor should be reduced by 75% at least. You might want to review 10.5 cost/reward levels according to this.
As for suggestions on chest contents:
* Existing chest rares, but at higher probability
* Purple insignias
* Companion only gear(this is an obvious one
All over the probabily of getting the *good* loot when blind-opening a chest needs to be around 10%,
at least each 10th chest need to give good stuff in addition to the RP trash.
Key/Chest feed back
Item 2. This is generally a good idea it would go a long way to minimizing/normalizing RnG. The only thing that I would add is with items like the Boots that drop from HE's in Brynshander if you get one style of boot the drop-rate accumulator when it goes off should give you the other style of boot. This is a problem for many, they get lucky with the boot drop but it turns out to be the same one as the ones they got before and they don't want need. I can comment on FBI and getting armor drops but I suspect that people run into the same problem there..
of course making these items available with campaign store would be better imho, but if Cryptic is going to stick with RnG method for getting gear they seriously need to consider something like this... otherwise getting the same but unwanted item over and over again make for unhappy gamers.....
So, +1 on drop-rate accumulator as long as you don't end up with same item as the previous sat check ;p.
Item 6. and 7. If we can't get a key ring then i'm in agreement, there should only be 1 campaign style key.... so many keys....
General Loot feedback
Item 2. I wholeheartedly agree with this statement very few things should be bind to character straight off. With RP is should only be bind to account (stuff received from VIP bags and various enchants) the rest should not be bound. 3 different bind level make inventory management a pain and take extra space.
Item 3. You know I never thought about the extra enchant need and how it affects coal/pres wards but you make an excellent point. Getting rid of the second gem requirement almost makes coal wards a bearable price....
Good post!
Now for those who primarially want to play the game by buying and selling stuff in the Auction House, they could well see a decline in their former profits because as more things become available instead of being able to charge exceptionally high prices for the items they want to sell they will have to price those items at a cost the market will bear, instead of sitting back and watching their profits roll in from high priced items in the Auction House, they might actually have to get out and find specific items people are willing to pay more for.
I do agree that the present system seems to be less than desireable in many respects and I completely agree with your point that items that add to a players performance should be "reasonably obtainable", but also keep in mind as I said different players have different reasons for wanting to play. What one person may consider "reasonable", another player may think "lacks challenge" and for at least some people cosmetics (fashion, one of each kind of companion/mount, etc.) is just as important to them as making a profit or running content will be to others.
It is an unenviable task the developers have, trying to please everyone or lacking that, the majority (which is not always the most vocal) but they've done a pretty decent job so far it seems - or none of us would be here having this discussion.
And that's my opinion.