O.O what an unexpected move...and Thank You for listening to our loud voice. This thread is loaded with so many awesome improvements that could be done, so i just remind of lack of refinement points, "skeleton dungeon keys" and BoE (sellable) loot with better than 1% drop hance. Thumbs up!
Thank you for listening and responding, it feels like such a rare thing that it's all the more valuable for it lol.
I'm hopeful of what's going to come out of it as it had looked like a 5 minute internal discussion that is now going to turn into a 'back to the drawing board' approach.
Others have put forward some great ideas already (ironzerg, thefabricant, etc) so I won't muddy the waters, I would just say "be bold and make it so people love the change and increase their buy-in".
Measure twice, cut once.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
As much as I personally appreciate this, and this goes back to what M.K plans were on the visions of this game, I do not appreciate after so long this was considered to be an exploit and out of allllllll the things you could of fixed in this game, it had to be this. I don't seem to understand why this was what you chose as a company to work on instead of the countless bugs and feedback players send in everyday. Things like this make players quit the game.
I am highly anticipated for the work M.K plans, but history tends to repeat it's self and like M.K recognized, he does not want another issue repeated or anything that big controversial wise. I am happy someone (M.K) realize's the REAL issue with the game, but I do not like these sudden things that change and the fact these are things that are focused on over bugs and feedback and PvE and PvP content just blows my mind. Obviously these things are much bigger and broader issues but look how long it has been! Same time as the supposit key "exploit", years!
I hope not to just see rewards be reworked like whats inside chests, but the percentage of Legendary and Epic, they should still be feats to achieve, and rightfully so. It would be weird with everyone with a legendary mount, but such a low chance and 16,000,000 AD for a mount is too crazy. Making these things more common will bring these prices down and to a more reasonable price. I hope to see rewards and chances of getting cool stuff be worked on, as well as completely removing useless things like +1 and +2 rings.
Basically, across the board I would like to see not just Dungeon chests be completely revamped with not just a higher % chance to get what I want, but also much better rewards.
Additionally I would like to see this happen in....
~All MOD 5 Dungeons that were removed be brought back to Epic or even higher Legendary and loot and drops be revamped.
~Existing Dungeons be edited so all drops are better and much more rewarding and have a higher chance of dropping
~In Skirmishes, and Trials, these things should also apply. People don't want constant +1's and +2's any more, the chances for +3 +4's and +5's have to be increased. Including any other chase loot people desire, so people have a purpose to run it. Thats the main reason why people don't run them.
~Additional reward options such as
-Mounts
-Epic Mount Insignias
-Artifacts Consisting of Green-Blue-Epic
-Additional Refinement options to help aid players further character progression seamlessly. I see it all the time. Begining level 70 players have such a hard time finding RP options for gear. Your current ways of getting them are good, but adding more into dungeons would be a great help.
-Companions
-Trade bars
-and existing options buffed or worked on in some sort
~Please make Epic Dungeon Keys more viable to Legendary Keys.
-I spend money on VIP to acquire Legendary Dragon keys, the last thing I want is rank 5 draconic's and azures in my inventory.
-Please make it on par with Legendary Dragon keys so I actually have a purpose to using them, because right now they are nothing but unwanted bag space because I don't run dungeons at all.
~Add ways for PvP players to also benefit from additional rewards like Glory, or AD bonus's.
-Many players get PvE over with so they can get to domination. Having a purpose to play it would be nice other than a ranked system. I would love to have rewards in PvP.
~Reduce the time required to make keys, 24 hours is ridiculous, make it 1 hour.
I hope my feedback serves you well, I had a blast responding. i hope my feedback is heard.
This is great news and if your genuinly interested in the feedback all id really like is the percentage increased on legendary rings and artifacts etc.
Would it aslo be possible to have a selection of options in demogorgon i.e if u win a rank 4 ring have maybe 3 options that corispond to the event. I only say this because in all the runs i have ever done i have only ever jad 1 rank 5 and it had no relevance to my class.
Loot themed dungeons... that way we don't get bored running the same dungeon over and over cause they drop similar stuff but one dungeon takes a tad bit longer... i.e. eGWD and eToS....
If you say for instance make eGWD the companion loot dungeon well if i want to increase my chances of seeing companion gear i got there...
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damnaciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 354Arc User
Has anyone considered one possible solution to this issue?
Dungeon chests are locked and require a key of some sort depending upon the chest.
Players are automatically unable to see what is in the chest.
If a player interacts with a chest, they are provided with a pop-up which provides them with a choice and asks them whether they would like to open the chest, view the contents or, decline opening the chest.
If a player would like to open the chest, the player expends one appropriate key and receives the loot in the chest.
If a player would like to view the contents of the chest, they must spend 5,000 AD and make a Thievery Profession check and expend a Thievery Skill Kit. This is not guaranteed to succeed every time but, should succeed a reasonable number of times. A player may choose to view the contents of the chest any number of times by spending 5,000 AD, making a Thievery Profession check and, expending a Thievery Skill Kit.
Trickster Rogues do not need to expend a Thievery Skill Kit but will still need to make a Thievery Profession check which they can either succeed or fail at. If they fail, they may attempt to view the contents again by repeating the process.
'Special' skeleton keys could be made available of various types with different number of 'uses'. These skeleton keys replace the need for the player to expend AD, make a check and expend a skill kit and automatically enable the player to view the contents of the chest if they choose the option to view the contents. For example, an Uncommon key may have 10 uses, a Rare key may have 50 uses, an Epic key may have 100 uses and, a Legendary key may have 500 uses. The cost for these skeleton keys would be an amount in Zen (only purchasable from the Zen store) equivalent to slightly cheaper than it would cost to view the contents any other way - i.e. 100 zen per Uncommon key, 475 zen per Rare, 950 zen per Epic and 4000 zen per Legendary. Each key could be sold separately or, sold in packs of, say, 5 or 10, with a slight discount for bulk purchases.
If a player would like to decline opening the chest, the player does not expend a key, does not obtain the loot in the chest and, does not view the contents.
Does that not satisfy a win-win from all perspectives, including the traditional value of being a Trickster Rogue?
Thank you for listening. I am glad that you have realised that the suggested plan was was hurting the game. Before I make a suggestion on improving loot (as you request) - may I suggest that this is only half the key learning from this debacle? The other half is that you and your team communicated this suggestion terribly ,and followed up on it poorly.
1. It should not have been announced in this way in the first place ("bug-gate" is probably a better name than "key-gate") and this has left a mark: even post this announcement you have people joking in game about now being exploiters and bug-users. Look at the open letter written to you and it reflects the reaction a lot of people I know in game had. It wasn't just the change was badly implemented (half a change as you say) - it was that we weren't being told the whole truth. Poor communication and there needs to be learning from this.
To my mind the key bit of learning here is: have the courage of your convictions. The AD change to leadership was necessary - you said it - people were angry, but it was good for the game. Improving loot in dungeons is necessary too - in fact, if you rework loot you could have more epic dungeons. But don't treat your customers like idiots. Be honest and clear. In this case people would have still fed back that it is a bad change, but it would have been different and maybe easier for you to fix. I note you now say "key change" - that could have been the message all along.
3. Even when it became clear that this was a serious mistake, there was an unreasonable delay in response. Yes, you are a small company, but (as someone running a small company) you're never that small. Sadly, it feels a bit like you were waiting for the likes of me to actually be demotivated and play less (which happened, and in the short times I was on, tumbleweeds were blowing through the alliance and my friends list). Unless you think the "let's try this and see how many people actually quit" approach is a good idea - you need to find a way to more responsive and be so within reasonable timeframes.
To me, the key bit of learning here is that you need to update your communications strategy. The forum can be filled with negativity and yes, it is impossible to please everyone, but the lack of cohesive communication and responsiveness have allowed this to grow and fester. This means the tools you have for interacting with your customers are limited and you need an updated plan of making that happen, perhaps even with your internal stakeholders. Yes, we all want to see new content, but we want to make sure it is bug-free within a reasonable amount of time and that if we spend time on preview helping you with that our concerns are taken into account. Hopefully the suggestions here will genuinely be considered. There are a lot of clever people in here including experienced game designers offering their help - I would recommend building a focus group. I'd even pitch in some free management consultancy from across the pond.
Again - this isn't to be negative. Learning should always be seen as a positive. Let's hope you can make it that for all of us.
Well, thanks for listening your players for a decision that 100% of them called an enormous mistake for the game !
About the loot, what do I want to have at the end of a dungeon ? There are lots of ideas already put in this thread but this is what I personnaly want : - Wards, bag of 5 preservation, and a chance for a Coalescent. - Greater Marks of potency, and a chance for a Superior - Cube of augmentation, companion token and some special stuff like that - Like some said, a system of token or whatever to be able to exchange your rings for another from the same level - Removing the +1/+2 rings for Edemo / CN, keep that for skirmishes like PoM / ToDG - An increase of the best rewards, artifacts and legendary rings - Loyal gear and lightfoot thief from the Gateway - A bag a refinment that is NOT JUST a peridot - Some more AD - A chance for a strongbox key, a legendary and A CHANCE FOR A LOCKBOX KEY - I love the idea of a map that grant you access to some hidden map for a special quest (with rewards)
Keep in mind that the more diversified is the loot, in a good way because that is not junk items like a peridot or a +1 ring. If I don't really know what I'm going to have at the end of the dungeon, I'd be more excited to open the end chest. At the moment, when i run eToS, i know 100% that i'm going to have a piece of purple salvage. When i run edemo, i know for sure that i'll get 2 ichor, a +1/+2 ring and a peridot (when i got better well that's a surprise). With a BIG table of different loot (and not only on the special chest, i want these changes on the basic chest too) and some interesting loot, that would be nearly a pleasure to run dungeons, because the return in investment would be way better.
BUT
That still cannot works perfectly with the actual system of 20 HOURS creating a campaign key. I understand you guys have to make money from the legendary keys but you have either to make a 10 sec key with a 20h cooldown (that way we DO NOT have thousand different keys anymore on our bags), either to change the system of campaigns keys totally, because you have to admit that 1 key a day is a bit, how to say that, ridiculous ?, with the new system where we HAVE to spend the key on each run.
Thank you for listening. I am glad that you have realised that the suggested plan was was hurting the game. Before I make a suggestion on improving loot (as you request) - may I suggest that this is only half the key learning from this debacle? The other half is that you and your team communicated this suggestion terribly ,and followed up on it poorly.
1. It should not have been announced in this way in the first place ("bug-gate" is probably a better name than "key-gate") and this has left a mark: even post this announcement you have people joking in game about now being exploiters and bug-users. Look at the open letter written to you and it reflects the reaction a lot of people I know in game had. It wasn't just the change was badly implemented (half a change as you say) - it was that we weren't being told the whole truth. Poor communication and there needs to be learning from this.
To my mind the key bit of learning here is: have the courage of your convictions. The AD change to leadership was necessary - you said it - people were angry, but it was good for the game. Improving loot in dungeons is necessary too - in fact, if you rework loot you could have more epic dungeons. But don't treat your customers like idiots. Be honest and clear. In this case people would have still fed back that it is a bad change, but it would have been different and maybe easier for you to fix. I note you now say "key change" - that could have been the message all along.
3. Even when it became clear that this was a serious mistake, there was an unreasonable delay in response. Yes, you are a small company, but (as someone running a small company) you're never that small. Sadly, it feels a bit like you were waiting for the likes of me to actually be demotivated and play less (which happened, and in the short times I was on, tumbleweeds were blowing through the alliance and my friends list). Unless you think the "let's try this and see how many people actually quit" approach is a good idea - you need to find a way to more responsive and be so within reasonable timeframes.
To me, the key bit of learning here is that you need to update your communications strategy. The forum can be filled with negativity and yes, it is impossible to please everyone, but the lack of cohesive communication and responsiveness have allowed this to grow and fester. This means the tools you have for interacting with your customers are limited and you need an updated plan of making that happen, perhaps even with your internal stakeholders. Yes, we all want to see new content, but we want to make sure it is bug-free within a reasonable amount of time and that if we spend time on preview helping you with that our concerns are taken into account. Hopefully the suggestions here will genuinely be considered. There are a lot of clever people in here including experienced game designers offering their help - I would recommend building a focus group. I'd even pitch in some free management consultancy from across the pond.
Again - this isn't to be negative. Learning should always be seen as a positive. Let's hope you can make it that for all of us.
Regards,
Oerbek
This was a good reference to my post and I think this nails the point I was trying to make. Very good. I agree with this 100%.
Firstly, thank you for listening to the feedback. Secondly, I really hope the key change doesn't happen. But if it is inevitable, please make the rewards for ALL players worthwhile. There are some really good ideas on here and people are really passionate so please devs, please listen to the views and read the comments. The keyring idea is really good as is the 'one key to bind them all.'
Perhaps a complete overhaul and standardisation of dungeons is needed, as well as some creativity? Here are a few thoughts :
Dungeon rewards on tiered system -
Tier 1 dungeons Always - 5k AD, 1 blue gear, choice of protector seals OR SH voucher or profession pack (green ) RNG - chance of pres ward/ rank 6 enchantment (BoP) OR fashion item/dye pack linked to dungeon (BoE) e.g. Pirate King - eyepatch / waistcoat /pirate hat; Frozen Heart - fur mittens / 'Frozen' dye pack; Karrandax - 'Dragon' dye pack, Karrandx cloak
CTA Skirmish / level 60 Always -2.5k AD, 1 blue gear, choice of SH voucher or profession pack (blue) RNG - green mount or companion linked to skirmish event (as per now) OR refinement stones / pres ward or other special item e.g. pocket buff /wand etc
Tier 2 dungeons Always - 6k AD, 1 x purple gear, choice of seals, SH voucher or profession pack (blue) give a bit more AD as these are harder RNG - chance of Refining stone e.g. sapphire or opal / rank 7 enchantment (BoP) AND Chance of skins / weapon or armour customization sets / companion gear eg rings/belts (BoE) Chance to acquire Artifact / Artifact Equipment (BoE) (as per standard now) plus Chance to acquire green mount or companion(BoE) specific/ special to dungeon e.g.ELOL - cult mercenary or Dragon; EGWD - Wolf mount ; Valindra - wight, malabog - war troll etc
Tier 2 Skirmishes/ Throne/ PoM Always -4k AD, 1 salvagable gear, choice of seals, SH voucher or profession pack (blue or purple) RNG - choice of refinement stone e.g. opal, rank 7 enchantment (BoP) AND Chance to acquire Artifact / Artifact equipment (BoE) Chance to acquire green companion (BoE) linked to Skirmish e.g. Ice Golem from Kessel, Dragon from Shores, Intellect Devourer from Throne, Shadow Demon from PoM
DEMO / TIAMAT Always -2k AD - hopefully would deter people from leaving group at beginning and making it harder for everyone else who stays also improve other rewards and drop rates - Perhaps introduce a special item on a monthly basis / RNG or something that can be claimed with currency e.g. 100 Tiamat orb fragments can be traded for 10k AD or a transmute item or a fashion pack (BoE) or 100 demo shards for a demon crown or a chance to get a goristo companion for a gold run (chest drop) (suggestions welcome!) Chest at End -as per now but give people choice as suggested regarding +4/+5 rings and better drop rates
CN and FBI As these are so much harder I think the rewards should be better for the players i.e.. ALWAYS 7.5k AD and purple gear and rank 8 enchantment as standard and a choice of Purple SH voucher or Profession pack or fashion/dye pack too would be good Then RNG chance of blood ruby or coal ward or dare I say it a brilliant diamond(!) Artifacts and Equipment plus chance of epic companions or mounts - these could be Character or Account bound -and new and specific to the area and unique -can only be acquired from these dungeons.
Heroic Encounters These are ok but Grindy especially in SH. The cap change is good. Everyone will do them because we need influence and ichor. but would be nice if there was a random chance of a refinement stone or pres ward drop as well as the campaign currency especially with the salvage nerf.
If you are going to make the changes people need to feel an incentive to pay out (time in grinding campaigns or money for zen ) no disrespect but not everyone has tons of cash to sink in especially if they dont feel it's worth it at the end.
Legacy Items It would also be really good to have some kind of bi-annual 'Legacy' event. New players to console, especially PS4, would love the opportunity to play older dungeons (old CN for example) and also it would be nice to reward the commitment and loyalty of the players who have stuck through the changes and stayed with the game through thick and thin. It would give players the opportunity to a acquire gear such as the HV set or legacy mounts such as the Axebeak. This could be a week long event on the same lines as winter or summer festival. I think it would also be a great opportunity to revitalize the economy and the community. Some unique items could be made available on the ZEN store after the event for a limited period, which would encourage people to play / grind before paying out. If necessary there could be a campaign currency system (much like VIP) to earn a key or ticket to the event if devs needed a payroll system in place - but please if you decide to do something like this please ask the community first.
We all know that you need money to keep the game alive. And all of us, have paid some how into the game -whether with real cash, VIP or AD / zen conversion. The majority of us have paid in with hours and hours and hours of time. No one wants to see the game die. We love this game - some more, some less - but the community is passionate and that is a good thing!
Now as to loot suggestions - I have three simple design suggestions. 1. Everything must have a specific purpose. There are good examples of this in game already. You have to run Shores of Tuern to get an unbound Haarl's, you only get Breyer's in Lostmauth, you can get Lathander's from Dread Ring etc. You need to have items that people need/want and you should spread them throughout the content. This means there needs to be a sufficient variety of content to have it spread over but mainly you are restricting the variety that is used because there is no reason to run it. E.g. why run Gray Wolf Den if you can get the same thing faster in Temple of the Spider? The same with levelling dungeons. People run the longer ones a few times for fun, but when it comes down to it, you have made others better simply because they are shorter. This is one of the elements of mod 5 that worked so well. Each dungeon gave something unique even when the length of time was quite different. That unique thing can be an item for a boon, it can be a reagent you need to upgrade something. In addition to that there can be specific type of refinement like you've implemented in the campaigns. In short each dungeon (and really each HE etc.) should be best for something that no other content can give you (with the exception maybe of rare events and lockboxes) and each can then be different. Frankly - if you don't do this you are wasting a lot of your design time (past and present). Look at Siege PVP - this had the potential to be really good and really only needs just a small fix to work (the ability to match groups against each other meaning there is no hour long wait and perhaps a fix to a few active bonuses like owlbear) but at present it just doesn't get played. Why did people play it before despite the problems? Because it gave something unique (check - that's still there) and at the time needed. Now it is something people no longer need/want because the gear you can get has been outdated even with tradebar gear it is a wasted resource. Similarly - look at what you've done with the original icewind dale content - this went from being a key part of getting BiS gear to being unimportant. In short you need update rewards across the campaign to keep them releveant whenever you make big mod changes. I don't actually think anyone will have issues with the rewards from different areas changing as the game develops T1 dungeons have remained popular because you can get artifacts there that make a decent set and I'm sure your data shows that Valdindra's tower is run more than Gray Wolf Den because of it. Once you have that in place you can:
2. Prioritise dungeons. Give your player the epic versions of the dungeons you have and bring back the old ones bit by bit. Nobody wants to fish and run just FBI and a new epic trial - and why should they have to if you can split up the loot over different dungeons. You have introduced a whole new set - there is no reason why there couldn't be key bits that you need to farm in Spellplague, in Dread Vault, in Throne of Idris or even the Lair of the Mad Dragon or some of the dungeons that are now not "epic". The most worthwhile things in the game should be achievable ONLY via dungeons. This is dungeons and dragons and the balance is with HEs at present and I feel fishing and voninblood farming are making it worse. I believe we should have something similar to the mod 5 approach in terms of this. I think the majority of gear that you get this way should be account bound. It should be possible to donate any surplus to the coffer of your stronghold (e.g. spare shoes you get in HEs). I feel for these the drop rate should be higher for these account bound items (e.g. +5 rings). But I also believe a RARE amount of unbound items is very important to spice up the game, ideally solely as boss drops. Lostmauth horn, Demo belts and shards of Orcus etc. are great examples where this works. You want to be able to win the lottery. Ultimately you should make yourselves summaries for each dungeon as they have here: http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Lair_of_the_Mad_Dragon and check all of it works and links with the other dungeons. I am confident that this isn't as big a piece of work as you fear. And when I see the amount of work that goes into making the game look right I'm confident you can get it done too.
3. Everything should feel rewarding not like a let down. Yes, you can't win the lottery all the time else the economy would get screwed. But you need to avoid experiences where you "achieve" something and then the "reward" feels like a punishment. Examples of this for me are tomes of experience and rank 5s when levelling up, but there's also the bonus dungeon chests where the reward is rarely comparable to the effort required to get the key (I can only get one of these a day and you're offering what?). I think giving seals an additional purpose in upgrading gear, rather than just buying items in the short run would make them a lot more interesting. I think once you take into consideration professions there are a hell of a lot rewarding things that you could have that should be spread into the things that make the game rewarding. People don't mind RNG as long as they aren't just left holding a rank 5 or a peridot.
Wow - well that's enough free consultancy from me for today. Maybe I'll even find some time to play the game later.
When you decide to push the key change through, please bring back the old DUNGEON DELVES system, where players can open the 2nd chest for free, maybe not in every run (to avoid exploiting by fast multi runs) but at least once a day.
\o/ Thanks @strumslinger! That'd be great, also, please look into the prices of the keys. And a new system perhaps?
A new key creation system, where there is just 1 key (along with the keys from WB, VIP, Daily Key, so 5 keys in total), that can be made using each of the campaigns with the respective campaign currency. For example, a common 'Campaign Chest Key' (that can open all of the chests like Legendary Dragon Key) that can be made using each of the campaigns, separately. That is, I should be able to Sharandar dailies and make a 'Campaign Chest Key', simultaneously, I should be able to do Dread Ring dailies, Icewind Dale dailies, etc and make 'Campaign Chest Keys' with their respective currencies. This has 2 benefits, firstly, there's a reason to do old campaigns. Secondly, people who would like to do more runs can make more keys by working for them. The Legendary Dragon Keys can continue to be available for those who don't have time or are lazy and want to buy them.
And/or remove keys from our bags.
Unrelated, can you please stop 'Return on Investment' from being auto-added (it's from Icewind Dale). It has been the biggest reason for my hatred for Icewind Dale, and I still refuse to go there except for my daily thanks to that quest. You can give that quest to the guy in the middle, between the AB and TT leaders. Also, remove the tools like Fishing Rods, Hammerstone Pick, etc from out bags please.
Also, please change the ring system to give a token instead of a ring itself. For example, if we were to get a +1 Ring of Natural Order give us a '+1 Ring Token' instead... This'll save a LOT of irritation. The system is already in place (Sahha Ticket Ball Tickets). You've been giving us an RNG within an RNG and that ain't fair. And, allow us to trade our existing rings for other rings or respective tokens.
Edit: Another idea, a single ring with a cube system like our Artifact Main and Offhands might work too, if you wanna monetize it. I'd not prefer this though
BtW, I've read somewhere in forums about some 'mercy?' system... Don't remember it properly. Something similar would be,
You should get a token for each run you make. You should be able to get a reward of your choice from the loot table of that dungeon for a 100 (ain't a small number in any way) of those tokens. That'd be great, and be a huge boost to us unlucky players. You get more numbers in the process too.
Edit: *sigh* One more thing, Please remove the 5x R5 enchantments form overflow reward, seriously, that's terrible in exchange for 1750000 XP!
Thank You. I'll go sleep peacefully now.
you forgot the single sapphire the single aquamarine and other various terribad rewards. every single xp roll over should come wiht a power point along with other things. r5's need to go the way of the dodo though. they should be replaced with r7
Thank you! I hope you actually do listen to the community through out this process!
In my "perfect world", what would "I" like to see:
The root cause: lack of loot of value and lack of loot entirely as drops
Move EVERYTHING in game. There should be ZERO paywall on anything needed to be end game viable characters. This goes from everything from coalwards to mounts to companions.
Lets look at the dollar to return value - 1 mount $35 (half the price of a BRAND NEW game), and ALL you get is a mount. If I want 2 different mounts, guess what, I just bought a whole new game, for 2 mounts that give me bonuses I need to be viable end. In terms of return of value, there is NONE, because it has become the meta, a necessity to have these items end game. Don't get me started on coalwards....no one can argue these are not REQUIRED for end game, and even the c/w in AH have to be bought by zen, which only comes from cash at it's origin, no matter how many hands it may exchange before returning back to you.
By simply adjusting what is sold, vs what can be acquired in game, you can easily fix your loot system. What is wrong with the current loot system? There's simply not enough loot people want. There is currently 1-2 items per dungeon people may actually want, and for ps4, that is only in ELOL, CN, and Val tower. There is absolutely no reason to run any other dungeons than ETOS for quick seals. Big ticket items people do want are the companions and mounts outside of the meta gear. I do NOT want to run 100 runs of ANYTHING and feel like I got ZERO rewards for my effort. I don't even want to run 5 runs and feel like I got zero return, none the less a LOSS. When is the last time YOU ran a dungeon other than those I just stated?
Idea, incorporate these items in game, AND keep them in the zen market. Give us the option to buy these items, not a requirement.
(using generic values here in example)
Say I really want the White Tiger, and I know the White Tiger can be obtained from doing "x" dungeon, with a 5% drop rate (we need to see drop rates, it not only encourages us to run dungeons, it may entice some of us to spend money as well with the amount of time some of us can commit). Well, I can then say, ok, 5% chance, and I have "x" number of keys. The keys costs "insert minimal value here", so I'm willing to use up to 30% of my keys I have at getting this mount running this single dungeon. Along the way I have chances to get other great loot as well. Say the same "x" dungeon has a chance of also dropping an arti that sells decently, and maybe a companion I may or may not want, but it'd still sell, some great RP rewards, etc. (there needs to be loot POOLS, not 1 desirable item) So say I have or bought 100 keys, and I'm willing to run 30 times at getting that White Tiger I really want. Even if at the end of 30 runs, I don't have what I want, I then over the course of those 30 runs had chances of items of real VALUE to drop. Sure, I spent 30 keys, didn't get what I want, but I can then go sell the items I did get, and actually make AD from them. For example, if I was able to sell said items from those 30 runs at 300% profit per key, I could then convert AD to ZEN, and simply buy the rest of the needed zen with cash. So, over the course of those runs, say I was actually able to earn an 800k PROFIT (26.6k ad profit per run), well, with current ADX rate, I would then still need 1,200 zen. Hey, no prob, I worked off some of the cost of the mount by earning it running dungeons, and I dropped $12 on a mount, NOT $35. If I could actually farm enough ad to reduce the cost of mounts buy 70% or more, I would have A LOT of mounts, and you'd have A LOT more money from me, AND my wife (sigh). Sure, if i don't want to try and earn it, I CAN pay full price, but there are options where I don't HAVE to if I'm willing to play the game.
Even better, for the real F2P guys that may not be able to drop the remaining $12 to buy zen, it keeps them in game longer, promoting your game, keeping your community alive. Then, they are not at a loss just to run a dungeon either. It's an option to spend money on keys for a HIGHER ad return on time, or to spend ad and "play for free", but take longer.
Example. - Now I start with 20 keys. Same 5% drop rate. I run out of keys, but I can sell my items for ad to then purchase more keys. That would be a loss of ad to me, but I can continue to try and acquire these items this way, it will just take me long, because I am having to use my ad I profit off of to continue to run until I may get what I'm looking for, but it is at least possible to do that, and make a little ad at the same time. OR I can have a higher ad per run return by buying keys and not using my ad to buy more keys.
RNG wise, this could easily be achieved. Use a rng tier system. "x" type items of "x" quality = "x"% drop rate across the board this will even out the AH as well. There would be variance in price due to difficulty of what content it would be attached to, but that would be all. It would sting initially up front, but the community as a whole would benefit from this, not just the FEW people that the current horrible rng has blessed.
Move everything of benefit from lockboxs and trade bars in game. Adds even more to the loot POOL! Now, with trade bars and lock boxes, you can get the same stuff in game stat wise, but cosmetically different. You can earn bonus rp. Stop giving us 9/10 profession packs! I 100% believe legendary mounts should be acquired in game, although rare, the rarest drop possible actually, because it makes them that much more special, and it adds a story to your mount, not, "HEY I FINALLY GOT LUCKY OPENING A BOX!" . MYTHIC mounts in lock boxes, which would be a jazzed up and decked out version of the legendary mounts, but identical equip powers, stats, etc. Really make someone stop and say, "WOAH! Look at that steed! I need to go buy some keys, that thing is SEXY!"
Cosmetics, cosmetics, cosmetics. That's where the $ is at. I want to be DIFFERENT in every way possible from every other person if you'd let me...TAKE MY MONEY TO LET ME DIFFERENT!!
The zen market needs customization options out the wazoo! I want to be able to buy unique clothing sets, unique dyes, transmogs, etc. You can have devs pump out customization options out the wazoo that would give HUGE returns for the time spent to develop them. THAT is what should set paying customers apart, along with the ABILITY to speed things up, not a REQUIREMENT.
I don't know if you see a trend or not in everything I've said, but it's based upon being rewarded for playing the game, not spending $HAMSTER.xx on keys and hoping I get lucky. If I feel the game treats me fairly, I will then in return spend money, for the EXTRA'S, not requirements.
agreed with the person who said surprise us! I'm a mystery box sucker. but with that take out all the garbage. no more peridots no more aqua marines no more r5 or r6 no more blue rings in t2 dungeons. nothing blue should drop in a t2.
pom and thrones should be on a higher ratio of purple and orange drops. plus 5's should not be impossible. I like the idea of a choice when you do get one to drop.. but seriously increase the rate on that and plus 4s. I would add by tier but considering that pom is STILL broken make it so for bronze as well.
make the artis drop more often. I like the idea of having coal wards and pressies in the loot table , I still have not forgiven pwe for coalgate.. this would belatedly help, right now only the very rich have the best enchants.. it shouldn't be so have and have not (from a ps4 perspective) adding a chance for all the rare keys to drop, from legendary lockbox to lockbox of the month. mounts and companions should drop, green thru legendary. higher level enchants. why not a really rare drop of a boa r10 11 or 12?
I'd also like to see some old gear come back. like the high profit set. I'd like to see all the old gear have a chance to drop as salvage.. playable.. not just ruined.. it would be extra awesome if it were new and improved stats but understandable if it were just the old stuff.
special things like others were saying cosmetics and what not. race reroll, renaming tokens, respec tokens. all the things that drop in winter festival. I love winterfestival.. why.. ANYTHING seems possible with those drops. I'd be a dungeon addict if it were actually good drop rates for good things.
but nothing in the chest should be garbage. it should ALWAYS be worth the price of a key. usually more than the price of a key. sometimes ASTOUNDINGLY more than the price of a key.
I also agree with the people that are saying make crafting relevant again. it used to be a decent way to make ad. nothing is really worth while anymore in crafting. it's almost all obsolete. it needs a serious rework. some of us really used to enjoy it. I'd like to be able to craft mounts and companions. I mean the artificers shop.. why can't we build steampunk devices ala the gond mount and beholder tank. maybe a steampunkish companion of some sort. cool little equipable side weapons that you put in your potions tray.. weapons is totally obsolete. basically all of the other crafts are good for pants and shirts only. jewels is good for alts until you can get them better gear and leadership is worthwhile for refinement (but it takes WAY too long to level for what it is) and alchemy is actually pretty useful..
mod ten.. yeah -_- as a ps4 player 3700.. plenty high enough to get in.. I'm not bothering. why.. the grind is not worth it to me. and I will NOT do sh to keep my gear functional. i'm going as far as I need for the boons and then I"ll never come back to that area. sh were entertaining for the first year but seriously.. omg. pointless pointless pointless.
After coalgate I my faith in this company was shattered.. with this announcement my bitterness grew to new heights.. but I do appreciate that you've all pulled back for another look. all I can say is if the company fails us----- know we'll be even more irate as a pack than we were before. lol.. so don't let us down!
Has anyone considered one possible solution to this issue?
Dungeon chests are locked and require a key of some sort depending upon the chest.
Players are automatically unable to see what is in the chest.
If a player interacts with a chest, they are provided with a pop-up which provides them with a choice and asks them whether they would like to open the chest, view the contents or, decline opening the chest.
If a player would like to open the chest, the player expends one appropriate key and receives the loot in the chest.
If a player would like to view the contents of the chest, they must spend 5,000 AD and make a Thievery Profession check and expend a Thievery Skill Kit. This is not guaranteed to succeed every time but, should succeed a reasonable number of times. A player may choose to view the contents of the chest any number of times by spending 5,000 AD, making a Thievery Profession check and, expending a Thievery Skill Kit.
Trickster Rogues do not need to expend a Thievery Skill Kit but will still need to make a Thievery Profession check which they can either succeed or fail at. If they fail, they may attempt to view the contents again by repeating the process.
'Special' skeleton keys could be made available of various types with different number of 'uses'. These skeleton keys replace the need for the player to expend AD, make a check and expend a skill kit and automatically enable the player to view the contents of the chest if they choose the option to view the contents. For example, an Uncommon key may have 10 uses, a Rare key may have 50 uses, an Epic key may have 100 uses and, a Legendary key may have 500 uses. The cost for these skeleton keys would be an amount in Zen (only purchasable from the Zen store) equivalent to slightly cheaper than it would cost to view the contents any other way - i.e. 100 zen per Uncommon key, 475 zen per Rare, 950 zen per Epic and 4000 zen per Legendary. Each key could be sold separately or, sold in packs of, say, 5 or 10, with a slight discount for bulk purchases.
If a player would like to decline opening the chest, the player does not expend a key, does not obtain the loot in the chest and, does not view the contents.
Does that not satisfy a win-win from all perspectives, including the traditional value of being a Trickster Rogue?
I'd personally like this. I'd like to see more things in the game that remind me I'm playing a class in DnD other than Kelemvor's banner is keeping undead away in ECC for example. Am I a Cleric? The world doesn't recognize me as such and I get no flavor out of one class vs another besides playstyle. It cuts immersion in my opinion to have - Other Cleric NPCs usually talk to me the same, with the exception of the quests in the stronghold which he did seem to give me a response based on class.
Just yesterday my husband and I were talking about how cool it would be if there were optional rooms in some dungeons that you could go into that would change the boss fight. IE What if in castle never we found the phylactery of Azazel by optional exploration and could do a ritual to summon and pit him against orcus? I mean, the story is there. If we botched the ritual we'd have to fight 2 bosses instead of 1. IE- we'd need to have a wizard or warlock in the party to get the hints pop up about where the phylactery is or something.
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--
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null this would be really cool if perhaps if a mimic spawns its a rare tough battle doesnt consume any keys and people that stay and fight get to loot keyfree since its a destroyed chest
What i would really like to see more than anything else in a dungeon chest as a possible reward are Coal Wards. Having them available only through invoking coffers (at a minuscule drop rate) in-game is sad and the price being asked on the zen store is outrageous.
I SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, second and third that lirithiel. But I would love to see companion tokens start to make an appearance for once. Over a year playing this game and hundreds, perhaps thousands of companion fort. boxes and haven't gotten to even smell the aroma of one! Hell I just found out they even still supposed to exist, thought they possibly got nerfed before i started this on xbox from computer. Really some of the prices are high as hell and I don't mind spending on my favorite game, and have a lot but damn the coalescent is ridiculous for something we all in this game constantly needover andover again for almost everything. But thanks for you guys hearing us and letting us give input. Kudos
What i would really like to see more than anything else in a dungeon chest as a possible reward are Coal Wards. Having them available only through invoking coffers (at a minuscule drop rate) in-game is sad and the price being asked on the zen store is outrageous.
I SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, second and third that lirithiel. But I would love to see companion tokens start to make an appearance for once. Over a year playing this game and hundreds, perhaps thousands of companion fort. boxes and haven't gotten to even smell the aroma of one! Hell I just found out they even still supposed to exist, thought they possibly got nerfed before i started this on xbox from computer. Really some of the prices are high as hell and I don't mind spending on my favorite game, and have a lot but damn the coalescent is ridiculous for something we all in this game constantly needover andover again for almost everything. But thanks for you guys hearing us and letting us give input. Kudos
Oh, and let's not forget about about the stuff from the Gateway (RIP my friend)...
Lightfoot Thief
Loyal Companion Gear
Ironzerg, never forgotten. Cheers M.K.
This stuff needs to be added as soon as possible anyways. It shouldn't be part of the loot rework, it should just be added to what we have for loot tables now. Every day it's delayed is another customer that's going to be mad when they've wasted millions of AD on gear that we all know you're going to nerf anyways.
So, here’s what we are going to do. We are pulling back the dungeon key change for our upcoming update, Sea of Moving Ice, and scheduling time to evaluate and rebuild the rewards for the dungeon chests. This change will still happen, but when it does it will be with better rewards and a much better chance of actually getting the chase loot. Once the change is in, the plan is to schedule updates to these rewards each major expansion so that there is reason to revisit the dungeons.
more blah
Regards, Thomas “Mimic King” Foss
so basically the second chests will be like lockboxes.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
Sorry am not ready through this thread and the initial thread to make sure my views were covered. Simply put. Seeing LF Thanks for postponing the chest peaking feature until rewards can be resolved in conjunction with it. I would like to say I am happy with the message but it did avoid the elephant in the room. The accusation that we are all exploiters for having used the chest peaking feature. It was not a bug, it was obviously coded into the game to behave this way. Now your design intention may not have been for it to get used this way but the functionality was obviously intentional. It was extremely disrespectful to both our character and our intelligence.
As for the loot, the logic has to go in one of two directions. Either A the minimum loot exceeds the cost of a key or the quality of the loot far exceeds the cost of the key so as to be worth the gamble. I'm a conservative player so my preference is the former.
I don't wish to go into detail on my feelings on the new dungeons but I will call out that having the loot target be specialized gear for that specific content is pretty dumb. I myself have decided to sit out on FBI and on your new raid. I know many that have done the same thing and I am recommending it to anyone who asks me about it. It simply is not worth my time/effort.
Bring back Dungeon Delves. Dungeon Delves is great for the community. In the old days we had communications setup outside of game to alert friends that Dungeon Delves was up. Getting parties was easy and PE was alive and kicking. Seeing LFG in PE is now depressing as you have taught us to rely on channels (which makes being a new player more difficult) when once every few hours you would see a mad frenzy of people forming up groups for Dungeon Delves. I miss it greatly.
History of dungeoneering in this game (I really should research the dates):
In the beginning there was no key. The chest was only open during the famed Dungeon Delve event. All loot was unbound
Mod 1 - gear obtained from the dungeon chest was BOA; however, gear that dropped was unbound and therefore sale-able. Unbound gear of course helped stimulate the P2W market, it also created hope for people with bad RNG. Sure you may not get what you wanted in a dozen dungeon runs, but you could essentially trade other items (sale on AH) for AD and buy the item you wanted. There was a way to get that BIS gear even if RNGesus hates you
Mod 3 - The daily chest key was introduced so players would run dungeons outside of Dungeon Delves. However, Dungeon Delves remained the primary focus for PVE content. I assume this was really a strategy to reduce server loads based on peak activity around events.
Mod 6 - Dungeon Delves is removed from the game (along with 3/4 of the dungeons). All T1/T2 gear becomes BOP. The system to obtain gear was no longer reliant on dungeon completion as BIS gear was obtained via seals than enhanced via professions. Farming the first 1 - 2 bosses of eToS became the norm for efficient development (farming seals). All chests have keys. The Gauntlgrym Event is removed, further reducing the variety from the event calendar and a unique mechanic for dungeon/pvp.
Mod 7 - BIS gear no longer comes from dungeons. Dungeons are regulated to being sources of daily RAD bonuses and artifact hunting.
Mod 8 - BIS gear now is a mix of farming seals (dragon fangs, twisted ichor) and really really bad RNGesus (+5 rings). Many players give up on BIS rings because RNGesus is spitful and not worthy of our prayers.
As you can see the loot has continually gotten worse and the cost to open the end chest has continually gotten higher. Yet the game population has declined. Coincidence? I think not. This is Dungeons and Dragons, please make the dungeons rewarding again and bring back our dungeons.
Mod 3 - The daily chest key was introduced so players would run dungeons outside of Dungeon Delves. However, Dungeon Delves remained the primary focus for PVE content. I assume this was really a strategy to reduce server loads based on peak activity around events.
Keep on rocking that tinfoil hat. The idea that Publishers want to decrease player population has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've read on these forums.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Please thinking about making the tiamat hoard more obtainable. In the four months I've played I've seen it at 100% twice. The second time it was literally for only two runs. Not even having to change the rewards cuz I personally know of 6 people that got the orb during those two runs. It's just literally impossible on xbox unless people save for months and a lot of people at that
There is nothing the devs can do about tiamat's hoard... it is entirely up to the players to contribute.
That's not true at all. The devs control the algorithms that determine how much stuff it takes to fill the hoard based on server populations. The tuning for PC is perfect, in my opinion, but on XBox, it's broken as all get out. No idea about PS4.
mrvincent1959Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
1. Yes, rework the loot system
2. Fix SKT grind. HEs for a CHANCE at Lanolin is killing the SKT campaign.
3. None of the proposed fixes matter if we dont get new content in the form of the returning old, and making of new skirmishes and dungeons. THIS is the 800 pound gorilla in the room right now.
Comments
I'm hopeful of what's going to come out of it as it had looked like a 5 minute internal discussion that is now going to turn into a 'back to the drawing board' approach.
Others have put forward some great ideas already (ironzerg, thefabricant, etc) so I won't muddy the waters, I would just say "be bold and make it so people love the change and increase their buy-in".
Measure twice, cut once.
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Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
As much as I personally appreciate this, and this goes back to what M.K plans were on the visions of this game, I do not appreciate after so long this was considered to be an exploit and out of allllllll the things you could of fixed in this game, it had to be this. I don't seem to understand why this was what you chose as a company to work on instead of the countless bugs and feedback players send in everyday. Things like this make players quit the game.
I am highly anticipated for the work M.K plans, but history tends to repeat it's self and like M.K recognized, he does not want another issue repeated or anything that big controversial wise. I am happy someone (M.K) realize's the REAL issue with the game, but I do not like these sudden things that change and the fact these are things that are focused on over bugs and feedback and PvE and PvP content just blows my mind. Obviously these things are much bigger and broader issues but look how long it has been! Same time as the supposit key "exploit", years!
I hope not to just see rewards be reworked like whats inside chests, but the percentage of Legendary and Epic, they should still be feats to achieve, and rightfully so. It would be weird with everyone with a legendary mount, but such a low chance and 16,000,000 AD for a mount is too crazy. Making these things more common will bring these prices down and to a more reasonable price. I hope to see rewards and chances of getting cool stuff be worked on, as well as completely removing useless things like +1 and +2 rings.
Basically, across the board I would like to see not just Dungeon chests be completely revamped with not just a higher % chance to get what I want, but also much better rewards.
Additionally I would like to see this happen in....
~All MOD 5 Dungeons that were removed be brought back to Epic or even higher Legendary and loot and drops be revamped.
~Existing Dungeons be edited so all drops are better and much more rewarding and have a higher chance of dropping
~In Skirmishes, and Trials, these things should also apply. People don't want constant +1's and +2's any more, the chances for +3 +4's and +5's have to be increased. Including any other chase loot people desire, so people have a purpose to run it. Thats the main reason why people don't run them.
~Additional reward options such as
-Mounts
-Epic Mount Insignias
-Artifacts Consisting of Green-Blue-Epic
-Additional Refinement options to help aid players further character progression seamlessly. I see it all the time. Begining level 70 players have such a hard time finding RP options for gear. Your current ways of getting them are good, but adding more into dungeons would be a great help.
-Companions
-Trade bars
-and existing options buffed or worked on in some sort
~Please make Epic Dungeon Keys more viable to Legendary Keys.
-I spend money on VIP to acquire Legendary Dragon keys, the last thing I want is rank 5 draconic's and azures in my inventory.
-Please make it on par with Legendary Dragon keys so I actually have a purpose to using them, because right now they are nothing but unwanted bag space because I don't run dungeons at all.
~Add ways for PvP players to also benefit from additional rewards like Glory, or AD bonus's.
-Many players get PvE over with so they can get to domination. Having a purpose to play it would be nice other than a ranked system. I would love to have rewards in PvP.
~Reduce the time required to make keys, 24 hours is ridiculous, make it 1 hour.
I hope my feedback serves you well, I had a blast responding. i hope my feedback is heard.
Thanks M.K, Proteus.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Would it aslo be possible to have a selection of options in demogorgon i.e if u win a rank 4 ring have maybe 3 options that corispond to the event. I only say this because in all the runs i have ever done i have only ever jad 1 rank 5 and it had no relevance to my class.
If you say for instance make eGWD the companion loot dungeon well if i want to increase my chances of seeing companion gear i got there...
- Dungeon chests are locked and require a key of some sort depending upon the chest.
- Players are automatically unable to see what is in the chest.
- If a player interacts with a chest, they are provided with a pop-up which provides them with a choice and asks them whether they would like to open the chest, view the contents or, decline opening the chest.
- If a player would like to open the chest, the player expends one appropriate key and receives the loot in the chest.
- If a player would like to view the contents of the chest, they must spend 5,000 AD and make a Thievery Profession check and expend a Thievery Skill Kit. This is not guaranteed to succeed every time but, should succeed a reasonable number of times. A player may choose to view the contents of the chest any number of times by spending 5,000 AD, making a Thievery Profession check and, expending a Thievery Skill Kit.
- Trickster Rogues do not need to expend a Thievery Skill Kit but will still need to make a Thievery Profession check which they can either succeed or fail at. If they fail, they may attempt to view the contents again by repeating the process.
- 'Special' skeleton keys could be made available of various types with different number of 'uses'. These skeleton keys replace the need for the player to expend AD, make a check and expend a skill kit and automatically enable the player to view the contents of the chest if they choose the option to view the contents. For example, an Uncommon key may have 10 uses, a Rare key may have 50 uses, an Epic key may have 100 uses and, a Legendary key may have 500 uses. The cost for these skeleton keys would be an amount in Zen (only purchasable from the Zen store) equivalent to slightly cheaper than it would cost to view the contents any other way - i.e. 100 zen per Uncommon key, 475 zen per Rare, 950 zen per Epic and 4000 zen per Legendary. Each key could be sold separately or, sold in packs of, say, 5 or 10, with a slight discount for bulk purchases.
- If a player would like to decline opening the chest, the player does not expend a key, does not obtain the loot in the chest and, does not view the contents.
Does that not satisfy a win-win from all perspectives, including the traditional value of being a Trickster Rogue?Thank you for listening. I am glad that you have realised that the suggested plan was was hurting the game.
Before I make a suggestion on improving loot (as you request) - may I suggest that this is only half the key learning from this debacle?
The other half is that you and your team communicated this suggestion terribly ,and followed up on it poorly.
1. It should not have been announced in this way in the first place ("bug-gate" is probably a better name than "key-gate") and this has left a mark: even post this announcement you have people joking in game about now being exploiters and bug-users. Look at the open letter written to you and it reflects the reaction a lot of people I know in game had. It wasn't just the change was badly implemented (half a change as you say) - it was that we weren't being told the whole truth. Poor communication and there needs to be learning from this.
To my mind the key bit of learning here is: have the courage of your convictions. The AD change to leadership was necessary - you said it - people were angry, but it was good for the game. Improving loot in dungeons is necessary too - in fact, if you rework loot you could have more epic dungeons. But don't treat your customers like idiots. Be honest and clear. In this case people would have still fed back that it is a bad change, but it would have been different and maybe easier for you to fix. I note you now say "key change" - that could have been the message all along.
3. Even when it became clear that this was a serious mistake, there was an unreasonable delay in response. Yes, you are a small company, but (as someone running a small company) you're never that small. Sadly, it feels a bit like you were waiting for the likes of me to actually be demotivated and play less (which happened, and in the short times I was on, tumbleweeds were blowing through the alliance and my friends list). Unless you think the "let's try this and see how many people actually quit" approach is a good idea - you need to find a way to more responsive and be so within reasonable timeframes.
To me, the key bit of learning here is that you need to update your communications strategy. The forum can be filled with negativity and yes, it is impossible to please everyone, but the lack of cohesive communication and responsiveness have allowed this to grow and fester. This means the tools you have for interacting with your customers are limited and you need an updated plan of making that happen, perhaps even with your internal stakeholders. Yes, we all want to see new content, but we want to make sure it is bug-free within a reasonable amount of time and that if we spend time on preview helping you with that our concerns are taken into account.
Hopefully the suggestions here will genuinely be considered. There are a lot of clever people in here including experienced game designers offering their help - I would recommend building a focus group. I'd even pitch in some free management consultancy from across the pond.
Again - this isn't to be negative. Learning should always be seen as a positive. Let's hope you can make it that for all of us.
Regards,
Oerbek
.0000000001% to .0000000002% ?
About the loot, what do I want to have at the end of a dungeon ? There are lots of ideas already put in this thread but this is what I personnaly want :
- Wards, bag of 5 preservation, and a chance for a Coalescent.
- Greater Marks of potency, and a chance for a Superior
- Cube of augmentation, companion token and some special stuff like that
- Like some said, a system of token or whatever to be able to exchange your rings for another from the same level
- Removing the +1/+2 rings for Edemo / CN, keep that for skirmishes like PoM / ToDG
- An increase of the best rewards, artifacts and legendary rings
- Loyal gear and lightfoot thief from the Gateway
- A bag a refinment that is NOT JUST a peridot
- Some more AD
- A chance for a strongbox key, a legendary and A CHANCE FOR A LOCKBOX KEY
- I love the idea of a map that grant you access to some hidden map for a special quest (with rewards)
Keep in mind that the more diversified is the loot, in a good way because that is not junk items like a peridot or a +1 ring. If I don't really know what I'm going to have at the end of the dungeon, I'd be more excited to open the end chest.
At the moment, when i run eToS, i know 100% that i'm going to have a piece of purple salvage. When i run edemo, i know for sure that i'll get 2 ichor, a +1/+2 ring and a peridot (when i got better well that's a surprise). With a BIG table of different loot (and not only on the special chest, i want these changes on the basic chest too) and some interesting loot, that would be nearly a pleasure to run dungeons, because the return in investment would be way better.
BUT
That still cannot works perfectly with the actual system of 20 HOURS creating a campaign key. I understand you guys have to make money from the legendary keys but you have either to make a 10 sec key with a 20h cooldown (that way we DO NOT have thousand different keys anymore on our bags), either to change the system of campaigns keys totally, because you have to admit that 1 key a day is a bit, how to say that, ridiculous ?, with the new system where we HAVE to spend the key on each run.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Perhaps a complete overhaul and standardisation of dungeons is needed, as well as some creativity? Here are a few thoughts :
Dungeon rewards on tiered system -
Tier 1 dungeons
Always - 5k AD, 1 blue gear, choice of protector seals OR SH voucher or profession pack (green )
RNG - chance of pres ward/ rank 6 enchantment (BoP)
OR
fashion item/dye pack linked to dungeon (BoE) e.g. Pirate King - eyepatch / waistcoat /pirate hat; Frozen Heart - fur mittens / 'Frozen' dye pack; Karrandax - 'Dragon' dye pack, Karrandx cloak
CTA Skirmish / level 60
Always -2.5k AD, 1 blue gear, choice of SH voucher or profession pack (blue)
RNG - green mount or companion linked to skirmish event (as per now) OR
refinement stones / pres ward
or other special item e.g. pocket buff /wand etc
Tier 2 dungeons
Always - 6k AD, 1 x purple gear, choice of seals, SH voucher or profession pack (blue) give a bit more AD as these are harder
RNG - chance of Refining stone e.g. sapphire or opal / rank 7 enchantment (BoP) AND
Chance of skins / weapon or armour customization sets / companion gear eg
rings/belts (BoE)
Chance to acquire Artifact / Artifact Equipment (BoE) (as per standard now) plus
Chance to acquire green mount or companion(BoE) specific/ special to dungeon
e.g.ELOL - cult mercenary or Dragon; EGWD - Wolf mount ; Valindra - wight,
malabog - war troll etc
Tier 2 Skirmishes/ Throne/ PoM
Always -4k AD, 1 salvagable gear, choice of seals, SH voucher or profession pack (blue or purple)
RNG - choice of refinement stone e.g. opal, rank 7 enchantment (BoP) AND
Chance to acquire Artifact / Artifact equipment (BoE)
Chance to acquire green companion (BoE) linked to Skirmish e.g. Ice Golem from Kessel, Dragon from Shores, Intellect Devourer from Throne, Shadow Demon from PoM
DEMO / TIAMAT
Always -2k AD - hopefully would deter people from leaving group at beginning and making it harder for everyone else who stays
also improve other rewards and drop rates - Perhaps introduce a special item on a monthly basis / RNG or something that can be claimed with currency e.g. 100 Tiamat orb fragments can be traded for 10k AD or a transmute item or a fashion pack (BoE) or 100 demo shards for a demon crown or a chance to get a goristo companion for a gold run (chest drop) (suggestions welcome!)
Chest at End -as per now but give people choice as suggested regarding +4/+5 rings and better drop rates
CN and FBI
As these are so much harder I think the rewards should be better for the players i.e..
ALWAYS 7.5k AD and purple gear and rank 8 enchantment as standard and a choice of Purple SH voucher or Profession pack or fashion/dye pack too would be good
Then RNG chance of blood ruby or coal ward or dare I say it a brilliant diamond(!)
Artifacts and Equipment plus chance of epic companions or mounts - these could be Character or Account bound -and new and specific to the area and unique -can only be acquired from these dungeons.
Heroic Encounters
These are ok but Grindy especially in SH. The cap change is good. Everyone will do them because we need influence and ichor. but would be nice if there was a random chance of a refinement stone or pres ward drop as well as the campaign currency especially with the salvage nerf.
If you are going to make the changes people need to feel an incentive to pay out (time in grinding campaigns or money for zen ) no disrespect but not everyone has tons of cash to sink in especially if they dont feel it's worth it at the end.
Legacy Items
It would also be really good to have some kind of bi-annual 'Legacy' event. New players to console, especially PS4, would love the opportunity to play older dungeons (old CN for example) and also it would be nice to reward the commitment and loyalty of the players who have stuck through the changes and stayed with the game through thick and thin. It would give players the opportunity to a acquire gear such as the HV set or legacy mounts such as the Axebeak. This could be a week long event on the same lines as winter or summer festival. I think it would also be a great opportunity to revitalize the economy and the community. Some unique items could be made available on the ZEN store after the event for a limited period, which would encourage people to play / grind before paying out. If necessary there could be a campaign currency system (much like VIP) to earn a key or ticket to the event if devs needed a payroll system in place - but please if you decide to do something like this please ask the community first.
We all know that you need money to keep the game alive. And all of us, have paid some how into the game -whether with real cash, VIP or AD / zen conversion. The majority of us have paid in with hours and hours and hours of time. No one wants to see the game die. We love this game - some more, some less - but the community is passionate and that is a good thing!
1. Everything must have a specific purpose.
There are good examples of this in game already. You have to run Shores of Tuern to get an unbound Haarl's, you only get Breyer's in Lostmauth, you can get Lathander's from Dread Ring etc. You need to have items that people need/want and you should spread them throughout the content. This means there needs to be a sufficient variety of content to have it spread over but mainly you are restricting the variety that is used because there is no reason to run it. E.g. why run Gray Wolf Den if you can get the same thing faster in Temple of the Spider? The same with levelling dungeons. People run the longer ones a few times for fun, but when it comes down to it, you have made others better simply because they are shorter.
This is one of the elements of mod 5 that worked so well. Each dungeon gave something unique even when the length of time was quite different. That unique thing can be an item for a boon, it can be a reagent you need to upgrade something. In addition to that there can be specific type of refinement like you've implemented in the campaigns. In short each dungeon (and really each HE etc.) should be best for something that no other content can give you (with the exception maybe of rare events and lockboxes) and each can then be different.
Frankly - if you don't do this you are wasting a lot of your design time (past and present). Look at Siege PVP - this had the potential to be really good and really only needs just a small fix to work (the ability to match groups against each other meaning there is no hour long wait and perhaps a fix to a few active bonuses like owlbear) but at present it just doesn't get played. Why did people play it before despite the problems? Because it gave something unique (check - that's still there) and at the time needed. Now it is something people no longer need/want because the gear you can get has been outdated even with tradebar gear it is a wasted resource.
Similarly - look at what you've done with the original icewind dale content - this went from being a key part of getting BiS gear to being unimportant.
In short you need update rewards across the campaign to keep them releveant whenever you make big mod changes. I don't actually think anyone will have issues with the rewards from different areas changing as the game develops T1 dungeons have remained popular because you can get artifacts there that make a decent set and I'm sure your data shows that Valdindra's tower is run more than Gray Wolf Den because of it. Once you have that in place you can:
2. Prioritise dungeons.
Give your player the epic versions of the dungeons you have and bring back the old ones bit by bit. Nobody wants to fish and run just FBI and a new epic trial - and why should they have to if you can split up the loot over different dungeons. You have introduced a whole new set - there is no reason why there couldn't be key bits that you need to farm in Spellplague, in Dread Vault, in Throne of Idris or even the Lair of the Mad Dragon or some of the dungeons that are now not "epic". The most worthwhile things in the game should be achievable ONLY via dungeons. This is dungeons and dragons and the balance is with HEs at present and I feel fishing and voninblood farming are making it worse. I believe we should have something similar to the mod 5 approach in terms of this. I think the majority of gear that you get this way should be account bound. It should be possible to donate any surplus to the coffer of your stronghold (e.g. spare shoes you get in HEs). I feel for these the drop rate should be higher for these account bound items (e.g. +5 rings). But I also believe a RARE amount of unbound items is very important to spice up the game, ideally solely as boss drops. Lostmauth horn, Demo belts and shards of Orcus etc. are great examples where this works. You want to be able to win the lottery. Ultimately you should make yourselves summaries for each dungeon as they have here: http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Lair_of_the_Mad_Dragon and check all of it works and links with the other dungeons. I am confident that this isn't as big a piece of work as you fear. And when I see the amount of work that goes into making the game look right I'm confident you can get it done too.
3. Everything should feel rewarding not like a let down.
Yes, you can't win the lottery all the time else the economy would get screwed. But you need to avoid experiences where you "achieve" something and then the "reward" feels like a punishment. Examples of this for me are tomes of experience and rank 5s when levelling up, but there's also the bonus dungeon chests where the reward is rarely comparable to the effort required to get the key (I can only get one of these a day and you're offering what?). I think giving seals an additional purpose in upgrading gear, rather than just buying items in the short run would make them a lot more interesting. I think once you take into consideration professions there are a hell of a lot rewarding things that you could have that should be spread into the things that make the game rewarding. People don't mind RNG as long as they aren't just left holding a rank 5 or a peridot.
Wow - well that's enough free consultancy from me for today. Maybe I'll even find some time to play the game later.
Please also consider this.
When you decide to push the key change through, please bring back the old DUNGEON DELVES system, where players can open the 2nd chest for free, maybe not in every run (to avoid exploiting by fast multi runs) but at least once a day.
pom and thrones should be on a higher ratio of purple and orange drops. plus 5's should not be impossible. I like the idea of a choice when you do get one to drop.. but seriously increase the rate on that and plus 4s. I would add by tier but considering that pom is STILL broken make it so for bronze as well.
make the artis drop more often. I like the idea of having coal wards and pressies in the loot table , I still have not forgiven pwe for coalgate.. this would belatedly help, right now only the very rich have the best enchants.. it shouldn't be so have and have not (from a ps4 perspective) adding a chance for all the rare keys to drop, from legendary lockbox to lockbox of the month. mounts and companions should drop, green thru legendary.
higher level enchants. why not a really rare drop of a boa r10 11 or 12?
I'd also like to see some old gear come back. like the high profit set. I'd like to see all the old gear have a chance to drop as salvage.. playable.. not just ruined.. it would be extra awesome if it were new and improved stats but understandable if it were just the old stuff.
special things like others were saying cosmetics and what not. race reroll, renaming tokens, respec tokens. all the things that drop in winter festival. I love winterfestival.. why.. ANYTHING seems possible with those drops. I'd be a dungeon addict if it were actually good drop rates for good things.
but nothing in the chest should be garbage. it should ALWAYS be worth the price of a key. usually more than the price of a key. sometimes ASTOUNDINGLY more than the price of a key.
I also agree with the people that are saying make crafting relevant again. it used to be a decent way to make ad. nothing is really worth while anymore in crafting. it's almost all obsolete. it needs a serious rework. some of us really used to enjoy it. I'd like to be able to craft mounts and companions. I mean the artificers shop.. why can't we build steampunk devices ala the gond mount and beholder tank. maybe a steampunkish companion of some sort. cool little equipable side weapons that you put in your potions tray.. weapons is totally obsolete. basically all of the other crafts are good for pants and shirts only. jewels is good for alts until you can get them better gear and leadership is worthwhile for refinement (but it takes WAY too long to level for what it is) and alchemy is actually pretty useful..
mod ten.. yeah -_- as a ps4 player 3700.. plenty high enough to get in.. I'm not bothering. why.. the grind is not worth it to me. and I will NOT do sh to keep my gear functional. i'm going as far as I need for the boons and then I"ll never come back to that area. sh were entertaining for the first year but seriously.. omg. pointless pointless pointless.
After coalgate I my faith in this company was shattered.. with this announcement my bitterness grew to new heights.. but I do appreciate that you've all pulled back for another look. all I can say is if the company fails us----- know we'll be even more irate as a pack than we were before. lol.. so don't let us down!
but seriously thanks for listening
Just yesterday my husband and I were talking about how cool it would be if there were optional rooms in some dungeons that you could go into that would change the boss fight. IE What if in castle never we found the phylactery of Azazel by optional exploration and could do a ritual to summon and pit him against orcus? I mean, the story is there. If we botched the ritual we'd have to fight 2 bosses instead of 1. IE- we'd need to have a wizard or warlock in the party to get the hints pop up about where the phylactery is or something.
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I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
this would be really cool if perhaps if a mimic spawns its a rare tough battle doesnt consume any keys and people that stay and fight get to loot keyfree since its a destroyed chest
Seeing LF
Thanks for postponing the chest peaking feature until rewards can be resolved in conjunction with it. I would like to say I am happy with the message but it did avoid the elephant in the room. The accusation that we are all exploiters for having used the chest peaking feature. It was not a bug, it was obviously coded into the game to behave this way. Now your design intention may not have been for it to get used this way but the functionality was obviously intentional. It was extremely disrespectful to both our character and our intelligence.
As for the loot, the logic has to go in one of two directions. Either A the minimum loot exceeds the cost of a key or the quality of the loot far exceeds the cost of the key so as to be worth the gamble. I'm a conservative player so my preference is the former.
I don't wish to go into detail on my feelings on the new dungeons but I will call out that having the loot target be specialized gear for that specific content is pretty dumb. I myself have decided to sit out on FBI and on your new raid. I know many that have done the same thing and I am recommending it to anyone who asks me about it. It simply is not worth my time/effort.
Bring back Dungeon Delves. Dungeon Delves is great for the community. In the old days we had communications setup outside of game to alert friends that Dungeon Delves was up. Getting parties was easy and PE was alive and kicking. Seeing LFG in PE is now depressing as you have taught us to rely on channels (which makes being a new player more difficult) when once every few hours you would see a mad frenzy of people forming up groups for Dungeon Delves. I miss it greatly.
History of dungeoneering in this game (I really should research the dates):
In the beginning there was no key. The chest was only open during the famed Dungeon Delve event. All loot was unbound
Mod 1 - gear obtained from the dungeon chest was BOA; however, gear that dropped was unbound and therefore sale-able. Unbound gear of course helped stimulate the P2W market, it also created hope for people with bad RNG. Sure you may not get what you wanted in a dozen dungeon runs, but you could essentially trade other items (sale on AH) for AD and buy the item you wanted. There was a way to get that BIS gear even if RNGesus hates you
Mod 3 - The daily chest key was introduced so players would run dungeons outside of Dungeon Delves. However, Dungeon Delves remained the primary focus for PVE content. I assume this was really a strategy to reduce server loads based on peak activity around events.
Mod 6 - Dungeon Delves is removed from the game (along with 3/4 of the dungeons). All T1/T2 gear becomes BOP. The system to obtain gear was no longer reliant on dungeon completion as BIS gear was obtained via seals than enhanced via professions. Farming the first 1 - 2 bosses of eToS became the norm for efficient development (farming seals). All chests have keys. The Gauntlgrym Event is removed, further reducing the variety from the event calendar and a unique mechanic for dungeon/pvp.
Mod 7 - BIS gear no longer comes from dungeons. Dungeons are regulated to being sources of daily RAD bonuses and artifact hunting.
Mod 8 - BIS gear now is a mix of farming seals (dragon fangs, twisted ichor) and really really bad RNGesus (+5 rings). Many players give up on BIS rings because RNGesus is spitful and not worthy of our prayers.
As you can see the loot has continually gotten worse and the cost to open the end chest has continually gotten higher. Yet the game population has declined. Coincidence? I think not. This is Dungeons and Dragons, please make the dungeons rewarding again and bring back our dungeons.
On a serious note the point above amending dungeons based of other things would be cool especially tied into different loot....Azazel
I like creative ideas and not just the crude up the r5 to r7 approach...i just hope they dont listen to ppl wanting tinker changes...be creative.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
2. Fix SKT grind. HEs for a CHANCE at Lanolin is killing the SKT campaign.
3. None of the proposed fixes matter if we dont get new content in the form of the returning old, and making of new skirmishes and dungeons. THIS is the 800 pound gorilla in the room right now.