Unrelated, can you please stop 'Return on Investment' from being auto-added (it's from Icewind Dale). It has been the biggest reason for my hatred for Icewind Dale, and I still refuse to go there except for my daily thanks to that quest. You can give that quest to the guy in the middle, between the AB and TT leaders. Also, remove the tools like Fishing Rods, Hammerstone Pick, etc from out bags please.
I am almost positive I saw this in a patch note somewhere that it was being removed as an auto add.
Only that it will be possible to drop, IIRC.
I haven't tried that, will next time... \o/
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
What do you want to see in your Dungeon chests?
Surprise me. That's it.
In my opinion, one of the most boring things about running dungeons in Neverwinter is that you know what you can get and that there is a very small loot table in each one. I would like to run every dungeon knowing that even the old ones that I haven't visited in days or months can still reward me with something unexpected. If you check the feedback, most players want to see a reward worth the time invested on running the dungeon so we can farm them and it won't feel like a chore, which is ok because that's the core of the game but it would be nice to get items that you are not supposed to farm because you can get them in every dungeon, "by playing the game". It shouldn't be something that everyone must have but stuff that is good to find: fashion items, new rare dyes, mounts, companions, campaign resources (good either for yourself or for the guild), new weapon skins, vouchers, and a huge etc.
My point is that I don't want to run a dungeon just to open a chest a say: nice, the same loot (ad, seals and 1 epic item) like in my previous 100 runs, how fun. I prefer to say: ok, let's see what I got today in this run... Surprise!
Just because a dungeon is old or there's a very low ilvl requeriment doesn't mean that they are useless or boring by design, we are bored of running the same content just to find the same lame loot. Dungeons are fun, playing with other players is fun and we can go back to these old dungeons if you make them fun by adding the element of surprise in the end of it.
Please, don't go for the easy route of adding a lot of RP to the chests because you already did this for every chest that requires a legendary key. Take your time, evaluate the situation and make Neverwinter great again (lol).
- I want a quest item to drop. A map to a loot cache quest chain that rewards a title and transmute and perhaps mount?
That's a really nice idea. We already have quests that drop from items in certain adventure zones, but the quests are hardly worth it (except perhaps from a story perspective). I think this idea would work well if the maps are on the rare side (not orange ring rare!) and the loot is on the valuable side so that people feel excited when getting such a reward and it doesn't feel like one more thing to grind out.
frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
BtW, I've read somewhere in forums about some 'mercy?' system... Don't remember it properly. Something similar would be,
You should get a token for each run you make. You should be able to get a reward of your choice from the loot table of that dungeon for a 100 (ain't a small number in any way) of those tokens. That'd be great, and be a huge boost to us unlucky players. You get more numbers in the process too.
Wow after 3 years you guys finally listen to us lol.
First up the drop rate on +5 rings across the board! It is absurd the drop rate on these things. People in my guild have ran hundreds if not thousands of demos to get one and simply cannot..! Also make the +5 a choice pack. All of them are account bound so why not??? You could finally get a +5 after months just to recieve one you would never use?!
All artifacts from end game dungeons need their drop rate increased. I personally have ran over 350+ castle nevers and have not once pulled a orcus wand or a useable +5. Yet I still waste my time in there when others have pulled two in a week. And add more artifcacts to the dungeons in general to add variety in what you could get, that way you don't have to feel like your running It just for a chance at the wand, you now have a chance at wheel of elements(or something else etc.)
Refinement items need to be better in all dungeons. Why are mobs in cn still dropping rank 4s lol. And chest rank 8s should be 9s for refining and have a slightly better rate.
And definitely put some interesting gear back into these chests like back in mod 5 when u had to farm DUNGEONS, yes that's right, dungeons for high VIz and all that stuff. And come up with those interesting set bonus again just like u did with those instead of boring static garbage like +200 power with 3 of set... everyone is cookie cutter because of it.
Bottom line you guys better come through with this since u said it, for once. And there will be hope for this game after all. Time will tell tho haha, if this doesn't take 2 years to implement....
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
\o/ Thanks @strumslinger! That'd be great, also, please look into the prices of the keys. And a new system perhaps?
A new key creation system, where there is just 1 key (along with the keys from WB, VIP, Daily Key, so 5 keys in total), that can be made using each of the campaigns with the respective campaign currency. For example, a common 'Campaign Chest Key' (that can open all of the chests like Legendary Dragon Key) that can be made using each of the campaigns, separately. That is, I should be able to Sharandar dailies and make a 'Campaign Chest Key', simultaneously, I should be able to do Dread Ring dailies, Icewind Dale dailies, etc and make 'Campaign Chest Keys' with their respective currencies. This has 2 benefits, firstly, there's a reason to do old campaigns. Secondly, people who would like to do more runs can make more keys by working for them. The Legendary Dragon Keys can continue to be available for those who don't have time or are lazy and want to buy them.
And/or remove keys from our bags.
Unrelated, can you please stop 'Return on Investment' from being auto-added (it's from Icewind Dale). It has been the biggest reason for my hatred for Icewind Dale, and I still refuse to go there except for my daily thanks to that quest. You can give that quest to the guy in the middle, between the AB and TT leaders. Also, remove the tools like Fishing Rods, Hammerstone Pick, etc from out bags please.
Also, please change the ring system to give a token instead of a ring itself. For example, if we were to get a +1 Ring of Natural Order give us a '+1 Ring Token' instead... This'll save a LOT of irritation. The system is already in place (Sahha Ticket Ball Tickets). You've been giving us an RNG within an RNG and that ain't fair. And, allow us to trade our existing rings for other rings or respective tokens.
Edit: Another idea, a single ring with a cube system like our Artifact Main and Offhands might work too, if you wanna monetize it. I'd not prefer this though
BtW, I've read somewhere in forums about some 'mercy?' system... Don't remember it properly. Something similar would be,
You should get a token for each run you make. You should be able to get a reward of your choice from the loot table of that dungeon for a 100 (ain't a small number in any way) of those tokens. That'd be great, and be a huge boost to us unlucky players. You get more numbers in the process too.
Edit: *sigh* One more thing, Please remove the 5x R5 enchantments form overflow reward, seriously, that's terrible in exchange for 1750000 XP!
Thank you! I hope you actually do listen to the community through out this process!
In my "perfect world", what would "I" like to see:
The root cause: lack of loot of value and lack of loot entirely as drops
Move EVERYTHING in game. There should be ZERO paywall on anything needed to be end game viable characters. This goes from everything from coalwards to mounts to companions.
Lets look at the dollar to return value - 1 mount $35 (half the price of a BRAND NEW game), and ALL you get is a mount. If I want 2 different mounts, guess what, I just bought a whole new game, for 2 mounts that give me bonuses I need to be viable end. In terms of return of value, there is NONE, because it has become the meta, a necessity to have these items end game. Don't get me started on coalwards....no one can argue these are not REQUIRED for end game, and even the c/w in AH have to be bought by zen, which only comes from cash at it's origin, no matter how many hands it may exchange before returning back to you.
By simply adjusting what is sold, vs what can be acquired in game, you can easily fix your loot system. What is wrong with the current loot system? There's simply not enough loot people want. There is currently 1-2 items per dungeon people may actually want, and for ps4, that is only in ELOL, CN, and Val tower. There is absolutely no reason to run any other dungeons than ETOS for quick seals. Big ticket items people do want are the companions and mounts outside of the meta gear. I do NOT want to run 100 runs of ANYTHING and feel like I got ZERO rewards for my effort. I don't even want to run 5 runs and feel like I got zero return, none the less a LOSS. When is the last time YOU ran a dungeon other than those I just stated?
Idea, incorporate these items in game, AND keep them in the zen market. Give us the option to buy these items, not a requirement.
(using generic values here in example)
Say I really want the White Tiger, and I know the White Tiger can be obtained from doing "x" dungeon, with a 5% drop rate (we need to see drop rates, it not only encourages us to run dungeons, it may entice some of us to spend money as well with the amount of time some of us can commit). Well, I can then say, ok, 5% chance, and I have "x" number of keys. The keys costs "insert minimal value here", so I'm willing to use up to 30% of my keys I have at getting this mount running this single dungeon. Along the way I have chances to get other great loot as well. Say the same "x" dungeon has a chance of also dropping an arti that sells decently, and maybe a companion I may or may not want, but it'd still sell, some great RP rewards, etc. (there needs to be loot POOLS, not 1 desirable item) So say I have or bought 100 keys, and I'm willing to run 30 times at getting that White Tiger I really want. Even if at the end of 30 runs, I don't have what I want, I then over the course of those 30 runs had chances of items of real VALUE to drop. Sure, I spent 30 keys, didn't get what I want, but I can then go sell the items I did get, and actually make AD from them. For example, if I was able to sell said items from those 30 runs at 300% profit per key, I could then convert AD to ZEN, and simply buy the rest of the needed zen with cash. So, over the course of those runs, say I was actually able to earn an 800k PROFIT (26.6k ad profit per run), well, with current ADX rate, I would then still need 1,200 zen. Hey, no prob, I worked off some of the cost of the mount by earning it running dungeons, and I dropped $12 on a mount, NOT $35. If I could actually farm enough ad to reduce the cost of mounts buy 70% or more, I would have A LOT of mounts, and you'd have A LOT more money from me, AND my wife (sigh). Sure, if i don't want to try and earn it, I CAN pay full price, but there are options where I don't HAVE to if I'm willing to play the game.
Even better, for the real F2P guys that may not be able to drop the remaining $12 to buy zen, it keeps them in game longer, promoting your game, keeping your community alive. Then, they are not at a loss just to run a dungeon either. It's an option to spend money on keys for a HIGHER ad return on time, or to spend ad and "play for free", but take longer.
Example. - Now I start with 20 keys. Same 5% drop rate. I run out of keys, but I can sell my items for ad to then purchase more keys. That would be a loss of ad to me, but I can continue to try and acquire these items this way, it will just take me long, because I am having to use my ad I profit off of to continue to run until I may get what I'm looking for, but it is at least possible to do that, and make a little ad at the same time. OR I can have a higher ad per run return by buying keys and not using my ad to buy more keys.
RNG wise, this could easily be achieved. Use a rng tier system. "x" type items of "x" quality = "x"% drop rate across the board this will even out the AH as well. There would be variance in price due to difficulty of what content it would be attached to, but that would be all. It would sting initially up front, but the community as a whole would benefit from this, not just the FEW people that the current horrible rng has blessed.
Move everything of benefit from lockboxs and trade bars in game. Adds even more to the loot POOL! Now, with trade bars and lock boxes, you can get the same stuff in game stat wise, but cosmetically different. You can earn bonus rp. Stop giving us 9/10 profession packs! I 100% believe legendary mounts should be acquired in game, although rare, the rarest drop possible actually, because it makes them that much more special, and it adds a story to your mount, not, "HEY I FINALLY GOT LUCKY OPENING A BOX!" . MYTHIC mounts in lock boxes, which would be a jazzed up and decked out version of the legendary mounts, but identical equip powers, stats, etc. Really make someone stop and say, "WOAH! Look at that steed! I need to go buy some keys, that thing is SEXY!"
Cosmetics, cosmetics, cosmetics. That's where the $ is at. I want to be DIFFERENT in every way possible from every other person if you'd let me...TAKE MY MONEY TO LET ME DIFFERENT!!
The zen market needs customization options out the wazoo! I want to be able to buy unique clothing sets, unique dyes, transmogs, etc. You can have devs pump out customization options out the wazoo that would give HUGE returns for the time spent to develop them. THAT is what should set paying customers apart, along with the ABILITY to speed things up, not a REQUIREMENT.
I don't know if you see a trend or not in everything I've said, but it's based upon being rewarded for playing the game, not spending $HAMSTER.xx on keys and hoping I get lucky. If I feel the game treats me fairly, I will then in return spend money, for the EXTRA'S, not requirements.
Glad they got the message, only 1 thing i would ask for the change when it finally happens
We want actual drop rates x%
At least that way we have a goal we must achieve
For example:
Lostmauth horn 10% drop rate
Then i know is gonna take me around 10 times doing elol to get it, 20 if i'm unlucky. This will encourage players to do the dungeons multiple times if they know the chance to get them.
Side note: Then again the chance for other things like upgrading enchants doesnt seem to fit their %
The main goal on the business side of things here is to make more money. I mean, let's be honest, that's the bottom line for a game company. Keeping players happy and giving them good rewards that make them want to spend money goes hand-in-hand with you guys making money and sitting pretty in a bathtub full of George Washingtons.
As for where this is going -- You want players to buy keys, and giving players a for-sure chance of getting nice things from the chests will make them buy keys. So, here is what I think that you should do for rewards:
There should be one or two items that ALWAYS drop in the chest, and these items should be valuable. It could be an epic refining stone, a large amount of AD, or whatever thing you want, but there should be a guaranteed reward EVERY TIME. Obviously, this should not be the most valuable reward from the chest, it should just be enticing enough that somoene knows they'll always get a something for spending their key.
The secondary items from the chest will be the RNG chances. Make it like you do with Lockboxes, to be honest. You have a chance at the artifacts and equipment from the dungeon you are running as well as the epic/legendary gear like rings, but you also have a rare chance at things like mounts and companions or jackpot Tradebars or AD. Don't just limit these rewards to things that come from the dungeon, make it a variety and the chance at getting amazing things (legendary mounts, etc).
The main thing here is to make using the key worth it by giving people a guaranteed reward and a RNG chance at something amazing. That's what will make you money and make the players happy to spend.
As far as the chest that is opened with the Epic Dungeon Key - This should have rewards amped up and should only give dungeon-specific items, but have a high chance of getting them. I mean, not everyone has keys but we're running the dungeons for a drop and we should be rewarded well for completing it.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
The main goal on the business side of things here is to make more money. I mean, let's be honest, that's the bottom line for a game company. Keeping players happy and giving them good rewards that make them want to spend money goes hand-in-hand with you guys making money and sitting pretty in a bathtub full of George Washingtons.
That's some visual
Here's a thought for a Zen market item that reduces the grind for those that want to pay money but doesn't disadvantage free-to-play players other than they have to play more for the same rewards:
Bag of Four Leaf Clovers Use a clover from the bag for a buff that gives you two rolls on the loot table for the next chest you open, keep the best of the two rolls.
Wow, thank you and props to the team for this. Any other response would not have had the same effect.
In terms of the question #reboottheloot
1. Replace all of the original unique keys (VT, MC, LoL, etc.) with a stackable "Bonus Chest Key" our inventories are already taxed and to need a full bag just to hold keys, all sucks. Keep the campaign specific materials to craft them, but make the result the same stackable key. Please.
2. Reduce the crafting time of the bonus keys. They are gated by the time to farm and number of quests available every day already. No need to have to wait 24 hours to craft the thing.
3. Improved loot. The bonus chest should have better loot than the regular chest. Improved items as well as more items including GMOPS, SMOPS, Coal Wards, Pres Wards, epic gear, new skins, companions, mounts, cube of augmentation, companion tokens, etc.
4. On a side note I really like the Ring token idea presented here where I earn tokens I can trade for Epic and Legendary rings. I wouldn't remove them from dropping, they should be really rare drops but a reasonable and attainable way to acquire great by shear effort would be great.
5. Dungeon specific rewards, more of them, skins items, etc.
krasensilverMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 27Arc User
remove the waiting time at epic demo/ndemo after 1st round after gold achieved that will make it more reasonable to farm. Im not complaining about legendary rings coz I had 12-13 rings there. You can give option to choose which ring to choose but that makes no sense coz everyone will choose power or brutality over other rings and no point of keeping other rings as option. Increasing chance of getting legend rings will no longer make those legendary but without that waiting time at 1st round ppl can finish it at 3.5-4 mins not in 8-10mins that can solve the problem there but pom need fix too 2nd round bug and with 11-12mins run time this need more chance for sure to get legendary rings at least 3x currenct one. For the new raid if legendary runes will be the same chance as it now there is no way to make our weapons legendary that will require serious fix and reasonable chance of getting them
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rifter1969Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 516Arc User
Mr Foss,
First I would like to thank you for delaying this change. It is somewhat encouraging to know that the team at Cryptic has finally listened to the community.
I for one, over the past week, have seriously begun to rethink my involvement in this game. I have logged in everyday, since I'm a VIP member, but every time I did, my thoughts were always "what for?" or "why bother?"
It was becoming more and more difficult to justify my time and money to this game.
In a small way, you have restored my faith in the game. I have to say, that now, I look forward to what proposed changed you and your team will come up with. There are many people in the community that are passionate about the game. A number of them have provided feedback in a number of threads about this particular issue. Taking some of those to heart would do wonders for the community.
There are other things that can be done as well, like the return of the missing dungeons, the Foundry, or a host of otherquality of life proposals that have been offered.
As you may have heard, we recently announced, and put up on Preview, a new system for dungeon keys wherein viewing rewards would no longer be an option without using the key. Then you spoke to us: loudly, clearly and - amazingly so and in many ways - that this breaks something in the game that you have relied upon. A fail safe for checking to see if you are going to use your keys on loot - at least loot that is a return on investment on the key and time in the dungeon. Our forward looking goal has always been to be able to create better rewards tables in those (and other) chests, but we needed to secure the dungeon chest system first. We totally put the cart before the horse here. We’re all sorry for the heartache such a half move has caused.
What good is first change without the second part?! I think you all were pretty clear on that, and you are right! When I’m reading on the forums that Aulduron opened 1,000 chests and used only a dozen keys on rewards he liked, this made me get my team really looking into the bigger issue here. The Rewards. Not just the rewards but the percentage chances of getting them.
We hear you. I hear you. We are going to fix this.
So, here’s what we are going to do. We are pulling back the dungeon key change for our upcoming update, Sea of Moving Ice, and scheduling time to evaluate and rebuild the rewards for the dungeon chests. This change will still happen, but when it does it will be with better rewards and a much better chance of actually getting the chase loot. Once the change is in, the plan is to schedule updates to these rewards each major expansion so that there is reason to revisit the dungeons.
With that in mind, we would love to hear from you. What do you want to see in your Dungeon chests? I’m serious about this. Your feedback is important. Reply in this post!
Regards, Thomas “Mimic King” Foss
This is fantastic news.
This shows that the devs do listen to the community. If I may just expand on the idea:
Revise all of the T1/2 Dungeons for a "Master" mode. Tune them up to an CN/FBI level. Have better loot in end chests. So end gamers are not just farming FBI/CN/Demo/PoM
Put an end to Feeder gear, like the Frostborn set. Have us feed it once to get it to tier 3, and lose the timer.
Themed skins would be nice chest additions, as per dungeon (angel/demon wings for example). Even new companion skins would be nice
Add rare overcharge enchants to dungeons like you did with TIA. But make them truly rare, and truly worthy to slot
If a player loots a +5 ring from a chest, allow us to choose whether its a defensive ring or offensive. Then RNG can kick in
NW-DT4OV7EXH
Every time they idiot-proof something...they make better idiots.
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dheffernanMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
I expect a system that does not amount to a de facto admission fee being attached to dungeon runs.
I expect loot from such to be worth my time. The chest from a Tiamat run today contained as its best item a blue resonance stone. Really? (To be fair, the open loot from it included an Alliance chestpiece, or maybe it was Protector, I don't remember. I'm wearing Prestige so it was salvaged immediately.)
I expect items necessary for progress to be obtainable without payment. What I'm hearing of the new dungeon putting refinement stones required for the new artifact weapons behind a paywall is utterly unacceptable.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
Things I would like to see added as drops in chests: 1) companions - all of them other than the event specific ones, available as a small % drop at the green level (still give blue and purple in the lock boxes) 2) companion upgrade tokens 3) Trade Bars 4) a small % chance at a mount 5) Coal Wards 6) Preservation Wards 7) chance at a good chunk of refined AD (10K or more) 8) genies gifts 9) stronghold keys 10) stronghold vouchers 11) appropriately ranked enchantments - there is no way Mdemo/Epic Wolves Den should drop a rank 5 enchantment - ever 12) Master Epic dungeons shouldn't have a green drop anywhere in them (unless it's a green companion) 13) level appropriate mount insignias that are UNBOUND
If you throw all of those in the mix, even at a low % drop rate - the volume of different things would give us a higher chance at getting something useful/satisfying - also its our loot, it better be unbound
Other things I want: 1) Epic dungeon keys should work in all dungeons on all chests 2) ability to make epic dungeon keys in all campaigns (meaning if you have all campaigns complete you can make 4-5 per day per character) 3) get rid of all of the other keys other than lockbox and stronghold keys and make them Epic dungeon keys. 4) if you absolutely must have more that just Dungeon, Stronghold and Lockbox keys - make dungeon and skirmish keys. 5) whatever keys you decide to keep should be the ones that VIP get every day.
Thank you for listening to us, I really hope the increased loot ends up encouraging people to stay.
Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold" Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
Alright alright alright, i might buy some keys tonight for lockboxes.
I like the ring token idea, could be 1 voucher for a +1 and 50 for a +5 or something to keep people working towards something. I think the refining stuff needs to be upped, getting something you get from a dungeon run should not be the same thing you can get for killing troll runs in sharandar, instead of peridots and aquamarines it should be rubies and opals and bigger gems. Getting gear that's levels below what you're wearing is just a kick in the junk, throw in a third option instead of belt A or belt B, a third choice that's like random box like you'd get from a lockbox (refinement, profession, mount, companion, etc), don't make us pick the garbage gear that we just convert 10 seconds later to AD. Or a straight up AD option. But more varied gear would be great, games like Diablo have a ton more stats rolled and differences than neverwinter's few top gear choices.
Well... I think that the "dungeon loot system" lost 60% of it's significance after the old dungeons ripping and with that the "gear loot" in those chests. In my opinion you guys should create something new for dungeon loot, not just put something that already some mob drops in any map as a reward. Yeah, there are some Artifacts and Artifact Gear drops, but its VERY annoying when we face a very low drop rate for them and instead find some WHITE refinement stones or even green ones. The idea of the upcoming "Treasure Hunt" is very interesting. Maybe it could be used in the Dungeon Loot system. You gather 4 or 5 pieces of something and can trade it for some special artifac or companion... 2 pieces of something else and trade for a special enchantment or enhancement. as SPECIAL I mean something that you only get through that source and a non already existing object in the game. SO NEW artifacts, NEW companions, NEW refinement/enchants/enhancements... that would be cool and would encourage people to go dungeon again. Even bring the pet's gears and companions from gateway to loot, but to save the Dungeon Loot system we need NEW stuff"
First of all, I don't think devs "listened" to our feedback. I think a lot of players stopped playing (or limited the time they play) and they noticed it. It's been so horrible in my guild and alliance in last few days on Xbox (which we just had a new mod). So, don't get your hopes up people! I was actually going to post something about it and predict that they will roll back the change (wasn't fast enough!)
But my feedback: 1- As it was suggested in the original post, decrease the time of making the keys substantially and make it easier/cheaper. I know you like players to buy Legendary Keys, but even if the loot is worth the key, it means now everyone will start buying them and price of Zen will go to the roof. This is not healthy economy. So, I want to see good loots in the seconds chest that I can open with the keys that I make in 10 seconds after 10 minutes of farming the content. How much the drop should worth? For 10 minutes farming and 10-15 minutes dungeon run I'd say at least 20 k worth of AD. If you make the reward more than the price of a Legendary key, then it will hugely impact the Zen prices.
2- I don't know why drop rate for +5 rings are soooo low. It's bound to account and most of the time you get a ring that you don't need (if you get them after countless runs). With the fact that they will be worthless after two more mods, it seems irrational to make getting them so hard. You can make a Legendary Artifact with less effort and you get the artifact that you want and you it will never get outdated and even if you want to switch it, it will give you even more rewards when you refine it! Really what's the big deal!
null YES ! There's hope !! Thank you, just a better chance to get +5 rings or sards of Orcus and stuff like that is enough for us guys. Keep up the good work. ❤️
While you're at it....bring back the old dungeons.
So many players who remember them want them back, new players will appreciate more content and in the meantime, as suggested by other fellas in this post, make dungeon loot (more loot) relevant and unique to the dungeon / skirmish ( like haarl's, the books for boons from Underdark etc etc) so that there is a reason to run more than 2 things in this game.
It's the same loot everywhere (save for the salvageable gear and the uber rare arti drops)
Thank you for your consideration in changing this approach for now.
Some of the things that I would like to see (besides a % upgraded chance of getting the big ticket items like Lostmauth's horn, etc.)
1) Rank 7 Enchantments. 2) An Enchanted key every now and then 3) Dyes 4) Dungeon specific mounts @ 80% speed increase (NOT 110% as that would eliminate the purpose of buying one and would lose capital from a developer side). 5) Items that actually sell for a decent amount of AD (Unless you get lucky on a VIP enchanted key there isn't a easy way to earn AD in this game). 6) Currency pack for that dungeon's associated campaign. (i.e. Icewindale = Kessel Retreat, Lair of Lostmauth = Tyranny of Dragons) or just Genie Gifts
Yea, we need a pity counter system. I've been running castle never hundred of times but I never got my orcus shard to complete my set. I know it dropped a few times but never for me. Each time it dropped for someone else and each time I was too upset to congratulate the lucky player.
I also like the legendary ring of choice idea. I never intended to "farm" those but I've got 5 legendary rings. Out of those 5, 4 are constantly sitting in my shared bank and getting dusty because I absolutely have no use for them. They are either pvp or guardian fighter rings and I don't play pvp anymore, neither do I play a guardian fighter. I wished I could trade or sell those legendary rings that I have no use for. (I guess you won't make them unbound because you guys already said you want the player to earn his stuff rather than buying it but could you at least add a vendor that lets you trade one for another? just like the artifact set trader that you added along with the lostmauth set nerf)
about the dungeon loot improvements:
more RAD - dungeons should provide RAD on every completion, not just twice per day. Tradebars - would be nice as well. (if you still add legendary mounts to the tradebar store for perhaps 12K bars, we could actually earn legendary mounts by playing the game, rather than gambling for those) class specific cosmetic items - like angel wings or halos for clerics/ paladins, bad-HAMSTER looking shields for tanks, etc.
I think bosses should drop rare crafting materials- Lostmauth could drop stuff like dragon eggs or teeth, orcus some fur or horns, etc.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
First of all, I don't think devs "listened" to our feedback. I think a lot of players stopped playing (or limited the time they play) and they noticed it.
@arashjam To be fair, that just shows how much they're listening. Actions often times speak louder than words, and if people "spoke" by not logging into Neverwinter over the last week or so, then the devs certainly "listened" to that.
Just adding my thanks to this thread so there are (hopefully) as many posts/views as there were in the complaints threads. I look forward to the loot table adjustment. As usual, ironzerg79 nailed it.
The key change is totally fine if the rewards are reworked so that the process of making and using keys is rewarding (btw, making keys is a horrible grind and it sucks, please look into this aspect of balancing loot rewards).
As you said, you had put the cart before the horse here and I am very glad you recognized this and took action to rectify the situation.
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
To be happy with the loot from a chest I don't need to have a bis character completed in a day. This is an mmo, they are inherently grindy. I signed up for that, I have paid a great deal of money to skip some of that, but I will still grind for what I want. But at this point I only run dungeons to help people, the drop rate is terrible. Several hundred cn runs on ps4 have only netted me a growing friends list and a few rank 8 enchantment. I like a lot of the proposed loot change ideas,fashion items included. My favorite suggestions was"surprise me". Not with a peridot, but mix up the loot. Keep the shard of Orcas exclusive to cn, and the horn exclusive to lostmauth, but let us get other stuff besides the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> we get now. P.s. I will still buy lock box keys even if you put some the lockbox items in dungeons, I am a key junky tbh. Put more stuff on the zen market, fashion, more mounts, potions, the "4 leaf clover", the more options we have, the more people will buy. I have 2 toons just about bis, I don't need or want anything off the zen store, put something shiny up there and I will pull out my wallet again. I am tired of seeing fire archons, and rage drakes.we just got the lions on ps4 and I immediately bought zen to transfer to ad to buy them.Give us options, not force us.You will mAke money. And for God's sake lower the price of blood rubies(does anyone really buy them?)
Comments
Surprise me. That's it.
In my opinion, one of the most boring things about running dungeons in Neverwinter is that you know what you can get and that there is a very small loot table in each one. I would like to run every dungeon knowing that even the old ones that I haven't visited in days or months can still reward me with something unexpected. If you check the feedback, most players want to see a reward worth the time invested on running the dungeon so we can farm them and it won't feel like a chore, which is ok because that's the core of the game but it would be nice to get items that you are not supposed to farm because you can get them in every dungeon, "by playing the game". It shouldn't be something that everyone must have but stuff that is good to find: fashion items, new rare dyes, mounts, companions, campaign resources (good either for yourself or for the guild), new weapon skins, vouchers, and a huge etc.
My point is that I don't want to run a dungeon just to open a chest a say: nice, the same loot (ad, seals and 1 epic item) like in my previous 100 runs, how fun. I prefer to say: ok, let's see what I got today in this run... Surprise!
Just because a dungeon is old or there's a very low ilvl requeriment doesn't mean that they are useless or boring by design, we are bored of running the same content just to find the same lame loot. Dungeons are fun, playing with other players is fun and we can go back to these old dungeons if you make them fun by adding the element of surprise in the end of it.
Please, don't go for the easy route of adding a lot of RP to the chests because you already did this for every chest that requires a legendary key. Take your time, evaluate the situation and make Neverwinter great again (lol).
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
You should get a token for each run you make. You should be able to get a reward of your choice from the loot table of that dungeon for a 100 (ain't a small number in any way) of those tokens. That'd be great, and be a huge boost to us unlucky players. You get more numbers in the process too.
First up the drop rate on +5 rings across the board! It is absurd the drop rate on these things. People in my guild have ran hundreds if not thousands of demos to get one and simply cannot..! Also make the +5 a choice pack. All of them are account bound so why not??? You could finally get a +5 after months just to recieve one you would never use?!
All artifacts from end game dungeons need their drop rate increased. I personally have ran over 350+ castle nevers and have not once pulled a orcus wand or a useable +5. Yet I still waste my time in there when others have pulled two in a week. And add more artifcacts to the dungeons in general to add variety in what you could get, that way you don't have to feel like your running It just for a chance at the wand, you now have a chance at wheel of elements(or something else etc.)
Refinement items need to be better in all dungeons. Why are mobs in cn still dropping rank 4s lol. And chest rank 8s should be 9s for refining and have a slightly better rate.
And definitely put some interesting gear back into these chests like back in mod 5 when u had to farm DUNGEONS, yes that's right, dungeons for high VIz and all that stuff. And come up with those interesting set bonus again just like u did with those instead of boring static garbage like +200 power with 3 of set... everyone is cookie cutter because of it.
Bottom line you guys better come through with this since u said it, for once. And there will be hope for this game after all. Time will tell tho haha, if this doesn't take 2 years to implement....
Thank You. I'll go sleep peacefully now.
In my "perfect world", what would "I" like to see:
The root cause: lack of loot of value and lack of loot entirely as drops
Move EVERYTHING in game. There should be ZERO paywall on anything needed to be end game viable characters. This goes from everything from coalwards to mounts to companions.
Lets look at the dollar to return value - 1 mount $35 (half the price of a BRAND NEW game), and ALL you get is a mount. If I want 2 different mounts, guess what, I just bought a whole new game, for 2 mounts that give me bonuses I need to be viable end. In terms of return of value, there is NONE, because it has become the meta, a necessity to have these items end game. Don't get me started on coalwards....no one can argue these are not REQUIRED for end game, and even the c/w in AH have to be bought by zen, which only comes from cash at it's origin, no matter how many hands it may exchange before returning back to you.
By simply adjusting what is sold, vs what can be acquired in game, you can easily fix your loot system. What is wrong with the current loot system? There's simply not enough loot people want. There is currently 1-2 items per dungeon people may actually want, and for ps4, that is only in ELOL, CN, and Val tower. There is absolutely no reason to run any other dungeons than ETOS for quick seals. Big ticket items people do want are the companions and mounts outside of the meta gear. I do NOT want to run 100 runs of ANYTHING and feel like I got ZERO rewards for my effort. I don't even want to run 5 runs and feel like I got zero return, none the less a LOSS. When is the last time YOU ran a dungeon other than those I just stated?
Idea, incorporate these items in game, AND keep them in the zen market. Give us the option to buy these items, not a requirement.
(using generic values here in example)
Say I really want the White Tiger, and I know the White Tiger can be obtained from doing "x" dungeon, with a 5% drop rate (we need to see drop rates, it not only encourages us to run dungeons, it may entice some of us to spend money as well with the amount of time some of us can commit). Well, I can then say, ok, 5% chance, and I have "x" number of keys. The keys costs "insert minimal value here", so I'm willing to use up to 30% of my keys I have at getting this mount running this single dungeon. Along the way I have chances to get other great loot as well. Say the same "x" dungeon has a chance of also dropping an arti that sells decently, and maybe a companion I may or may not want, but it'd still sell, some great RP rewards, etc. (there needs to be loot POOLS, not 1 desirable item) So say I have or bought 100 keys, and I'm willing to run 30 times at getting that White Tiger I really want. Even if at the end of 30 runs, I don't have what I want, I then over the course of those 30 runs had chances of items of real VALUE to drop. Sure, I spent 30 keys, didn't get what I want, but I can then go sell the items I did get, and actually make AD from them. For example, if I was able to sell said items from those 30 runs at 300% profit per key, I could then convert AD to ZEN, and simply buy the rest of the needed zen with cash. So, over the course of those runs, say I was actually able to earn an 800k PROFIT (26.6k ad profit per run), well, with current ADX rate, I would then still need 1,200 zen. Hey, no prob, I worked off some of the cost of the mount by earning it running dungeons, and I dropped $12 on a mount, NOT $35. If I could actually farm enough ad to reduce the cost of mounts buy 70% or more, I would have A LOT of mounts, and you'd have A LOT more money from me, AND my wife (sigh). Sure, if i don't want to try and earn it, I CAN pay full price, but there are options where I don't HAVE to if I'm willing to play the game.
Even better, for the real F2P guys that may not be able to drop the remaining $12 to buy zen, it keeps them in game longer, promoting your game, keeping your community alive. Then, they are not at a loss just to run a dungeon either. It's an option to spend money on keys for a HIGHER ad return on time, or to spend ad and "play for free", but take longer.
Example. - Now I start with 20 keys. Same 5% drop rate. I run out of keys, but I can sell my items for ad to then purchase more keys. That would be a loss of ad to me, but I can continue to try and acquire these items this way, it will just take me long, because I am having to use my ad I profit off of to continue to run until I may get what I'm looking for, but it is at least possible to do that, and make a little ad at the same time. OR I can have a higher ad per run return by buying keys and not using my ad to buy more keys.
RNG wise, this could easily be achieved. Use a rng tier system. "x" type items of "x" quality = "x"% drop rate across the board this will even out the AH as well. There would be variance in price due to difficulty of what content it would be attached to, but that would be all. It would sting initially up front, but the community as a whole would benefit from this, not just the FEW people that the current horrible rng has blessed.
Move everything of benefit from lockboxs and trade bars in game. Adds even more to the loot POOL! Now, with trade bars and lock boxes, you can get the same stuff in game stat wise, but cosmetically different. You can earn bonus rp. Stop giving us 9/10 profession packs! I 100% believe legendary mounts should be acquired in game, although rare, the rarest drop possible actually, because it makes them that much more special, and it adds a story to your mount, not, "HEY I FINALLY GOT LUCKY OPENING A BOX!" . MYTHIC mounts in lock boxes, which would be a jazzed up and decked out version of the legendary mounts, but identical equip powers, stats, etc. Really make someone stop and say, "WOAH! Look at that steed! I need to go buy some keys, that thing is SEXY!"
Cosmetics, cosmetics, cosmetics. That's where the $ is at. I want to be DIFFERENT in every way possible from every other person if you'd let me...TAKE MY MONEY TO LET ME DIFFERENT!!
The zen market needs customization options out the wazoo! I want to be able to buy unique clothing sets, unique dyes, transmogs, etc. You can have devs pump out customization options out the wazoo that would give HUGE returns for the time spent to develop them. THAT is what should set paying customers apart, along with the ABILITY to speed things up, not a REQUIREMENT.
I don't know if you see a trend or not in everything I've said, but it's based upon being rewarded for playing the game, not spending $HAMSTER.xx on keys and hoping I get lucky. If I feel the game treats me fairly, I will then in return spend money, for the EXTRA'S, not requirements.
We want actual drop rates x%
At least that way we have a goal we must achieve
For example:
Lostmauth horn 10% drop rate
Then i know is gonna take me around 10 times doing elol to get it, 20 if i'm unlucky. This will encourage players to do the dungeons multiple times if they know the chance to get them.
Side note: Then again the chance for other things like upgrading enchants doesnt seem to fit their %
Thank You!
As for where this is going -- You want players to buy keys, and giving players a for-sure chance of getting nice things from the chests will make them buy keys. So, here is what I think that you should do for rewards:
There should be one or two items that ALWAYS drop in the chest, and these items should be valuable. It could be an epic refining stone, a large amount of AD, or whatever thing you want, but there should be a guaranteed reward EVERY TIME. Obviously, this should not be the most valuable reward from the chest, it should just be enticing enough that somoene knows they'll always get a something for spending their key.
The secondary items from the chest will be the RNG chances. Make it like you do with Lockboxes, to be honest. You have a chance at the artifacts and equipment from the dungeon you are running as well as the epic/legendary gear like rings, but you also have a rare chance at things like mounts and companions or jackpot Tradebars or AD. Don't just limit these rewards to things that come from the dungeon, make it a variety and the chance at getting amazing things (legendary mounts, etc).
The main thing here is to make using the key worth it by giving people a guaranteed reward and a RNG chance at something amazing. That's what will make you money and make the players happy to spend.
As far as the chest that is opened with the Epic Dungeon Key - This should have rewards amped up and should only give dungeon-specific items, but have a high chance of getting them. I mean, not everyone has keys but we're running the dungeons for a drop and we should be rewarded well for completing it.
Here's a thought for a Zen market item that reduces the grind for those that want to pay money but doesn't disadvantage free-to-play players other than they have to play more for the same rewards:
Bag of Four Leaf Clovers
Use a clover from the bag for a buff that gives you two rolls on the loot table for the next chest you open, keep the best of the two rolls.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
In terms of the question #reboottheloot
1. Replace all of the original unique keys (VT, MC, LoL, etc.) with a stackable "Bonus Chest Key" our inventories are already taxed and to need a full bag just to hold keys, all sucks. Keep the campaign specific materials to craft them, but make the result the same stackable key. Please.
2. Reduce the crafting time of the bonus keys. They are gated by the time to farm and number of quests available every day already. No need to have to wait 24 hours to craft the thing.
3. Improved loot. The bonus chest should have better loot than the regular chest. Improved items as well as more items including GMOPS, SMOPS, Coal Wards, Pres Wards, epic gear, new skins, companions, mounts, cube of augmentation, companion tokens, etc.
4. On a side note I really like the Ring token idea presented here where I earn tokens I can trade for Epic and Legendary rings. I wouldn't remove them from dropping, they should be really rare drops but a reasonable and attainable way to acquire great by shear effort would be great.
5. Dungeon specific rewards, more of them, skins items, etc.
First I would like to thank you for delaying this change.
It is somewhat encouraging to know that the team at Cryptic has finally listened to the community.
I for one, over the past week, have seriously begun to rethink my involvement in this game. I have logged in everyday, since I'm a VIP member, but every time I did, my thoughts were always "what for?" or "why bother?"
It was becoming more and more difficult to justify my time and money to this game.
In a small way, you have restored my faith in the game.
I have to say, that now, I look forward to what proposed changed you and your team will come up with. There are many people in the community that are passionate about the game. A number of them have provided feedback in a number of threads about this particular issue. Taking some of those to heart would do wonders for the community.
There are other things that can be done as well, like the return of the missing dungeons, the Foundry, or a host of otherquality of life proposals that have been offered.
So again, thank-you.
This shows that the devs do listen to the community. If I may just expand on the idea:
Every time they idiot-proof something...they make better idiots.
I expect loot from such to be worth my time. The chest from a Tiamat run today contained as its best item a blue resonance stone. Really? (To be fair, the open loot from it included an Alliance chestpiece, or maybe it was Protector, I don't remember. I'm wearing Prestige so it was salvaged immediately.)
I expect items necessary for progress to be obtainable without payment. What I'm hearing of the new dungeon putting refinement stones required for the new artifact weapons behind a paywall is utterly unacceptable.
1) companions - all of them other than the event specific ones, available as a small % drop at the green level (still give blue and purple in the lock boxes)
2) companion upgrade tokens
3) Trade Bars
4) a small % chance at a mount
5) Coal Wards
6) Preservation Wards
7) chance at a good chunk of refined AD (10K or more)
8) genies gifts
9) stronghold keys
10) stronghold vouchers
11) appropriately ranked enchantments - there is no way Mdemo/Epic Wolves Den should drop a rank 5 enchantment - ever
12) Master Epic dungeons shouldn't have a green drop anywhere in them (unless it's a green companion)
13) level appropriate mount insignias that are UNBOUND
If you throw all of those in the mix, even at a low % drop rate - the volume of different things would give us a higher chance at getting something useful/satisfying - also its our loot, it better be unbound
Other things I want:
1) Epic dungeon keys should work in all dungeons on all chests
2) ability to make epic dungeon keys in all campaigns (meaning if you have all campaigns complete you can make 4-5 per day per character)
3) get rid of all of the other keys other than lockbox and stronghold keys and make them Epic dungeon keys.
4) if you absolutely must have more that just Dungeon, Stronghold and Lockbox keys - make dungeon and skirmish keys.
5) whatever keys you decide to keep should be the ones that VIP get every day.
Thank you for listening to us, I really hope the increased loot ends up encouraging people to stay.
Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP
I like the ring token idea, could be 1 voucher for a +1 and 50 for a +5 or something to keep people working towards something. I think the refining stuff needs to be upped, getting something you get from a dungeon run should not be the same thing you can get for killing troll runs in sharandar, instead of peridots and aquamarines it should be rubies and opals and bigger gems. Getting gear that's levels below what you're wearing is just a kick in the junk, throw in a third option instead of belt A or belt B, a third choice that's like random box like you'd get from a lockbox (refinement, profession, mount, companion, etc), don't make us pick the garbage gear that we just convert 10 seconds later to AD. Or a straight up AD option. But more varied gear would be great, games like Diablo have a ton more stats rolled and differences than neverwinter's few top gear choices.
I think that the "dungeon loot system" lost 60% of it's significance after the old dungeons ripping and with that the "gear loot" in those chests.
In my opinion you guys should create something new for dungeon loot, not just put something that already some mob drops in any map as a reward. Yeah, there are some Artifacts and Artifact Gear drops, but its VERY annoying when we face a very low drop rate for them and instead find some WHITE refinement stones or even green ones.
The idea of the upcoming "Treasure Hunt" is very interesting. Maybe it could be used in the Dungeon Loot system. You gather 4 or 5 pieces of something and can trade it for some special artifac or companion... 2 pieces of something else and trade for a special enchantment or enhancement. as SPECIAL I mean something that you only get through that source and a non already existing object in the game. SO NEW artifacts, NEW companions, NEW refinement/enchants/enhancements... that would be cool and would encourage people to go dungeon again. Even bring the pet's gears and companions from gateway to loot, but to save the Dungeon Loot system we need NEW stuff"
But my feedback:
1- As it was suggested in the original post, decrease the time of making the keys substantially and make it easier/cheaper. I know you like players to buy Legendary Keys, but even if the loot is worth the key, it means now everyone will start buying them and price of Zen will go to the roof. This is not healthy economy. So, I want to see good loots in the seconds chest that I can open with the keys that I make in 10 seconds after 10 minutes of farming the content. How much the drop should worth? For 10 minutes farming and 10-15 minutes dungeon run I'd say at least 20 k worth of AD. If you make the reward more than the price of a Legendary key, then it will hugely impact the Zen prices.
2- I don't know why drop rate for +5 rings are soooo low. It's bound to account and most of the time you get a ring that you don't need (if you get them after countless runs). With the fact that they will be worthless after two more mods, it seems irrational to make getting them so hard. You can make a Legendary Artifact with less effort and you get the artifact that you want and you it will never get outdated and even if you want to switch it, it will give you even more rewards when you refine it! Really what's the big deal!
YES ! There's hope !!
Thank you, just a better chance to get +5 rings or sards of Orcus and stuff like that is enough for us guys. Keep up the good work. ❤️
So many players who remember them want them back, new players will appreciate more content and in the meantime, as suggested by other fellas in this post, make dungeon loot (more loot) relevant and unique to the dungeon / skirmish ( like haarl's, the books for boons from Underdark etc etc) so that there is a reason to run more than 2 things in this game.
It's the same loot everywhere (save for the salvageable gear and the uber rare arti drops)
Some of the things that I would like to see (besides a % upgraded chance of getting the big ticket items like Lostmauth's horn, etc.)
1) Rank 7 Enchantments.
2) An Enchanted key every now and then
3) Dyes
4) Dungeon specific mounts @ 80% speed increase (NOT 110% as that would eliminate the purpose of buying one and would lose capital from a developer side).
5) Items that actually sell for a decent amount of AD (Unless you get lucky on a VIP enchanted key there isn't a easy way to earn AD in this game).
6) Currency pack for that dungeon's associated campaign. (i.e. Icewindale = Kessel Retreat, Lair of Lostmauth = Tyranny of Dragons) or just Genie Gifts
I also like the legendary ring of choice idea. I never intended to "farm" those but I've got 5 legendary rings. Out of those 5, 4 are constantly sitting in my shared bank and getting dusty because I absolutely have no use for them. They are either pvp or guardian fighter rings and I don't play pvp anymore, neither do I play a guardian fighter. I wished I could trade or sell those legendary rings that I have no use for. (I guess you won't make them unbound because you guys already said you want the player to earn his stuff rather than buying it but could you at least add a vendor that lets you trade one for another? just like the artifact set trader that you added along with the lostmauth set nerf)
about the dungeon loot improvements:
more RAD - dungeons should provide RAD on every completion, not just twice per day.
Tradebars - would be nice as well. (if you still add legendary mounts to the tradebar store for perhaps 12K bars, we could actually earn legendary mounts by playing the game, rather than gambling for those)
class specific cosmetic items - like angel wings or halos for clerics/ paladins, bad-HAMSTER looking shields for tanks, etc.
I think bosses should drop rare crafting materials- Lostmauth could drop stuff like dragon eggs or teeth, orcus some fur or horns, etc.
Feedback can take many forms.
The key change is totally fine if the rewards are reworked so that the process of making and using keys is rewarding (btw, making keys is a horrible grind and it sucks, please look into this aspect of balancing loot rewards).
As you said, you had put the cart before the horse here and I am very glad you recognized this and took action to rectify the situation.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
P.s. I will still buy lock box keys even if you put some the lockbox items in dungeons, I am a key junky tbh. Put more stuff on the zen market, fashion, more mounts, potions, the "4 leaf clover", the more options we have, the more people will buy. I have 2 toons just about bis, I don't need or want anything off the zen store, put something shiny up there and I will pull out my wallet again. I am tired of seeing fire archons, and rage drakes.we just got the lions on ps4 and I immediately bought zen to transfer to ad to buy them.Give us options, not force us.You will mAke money. And for God's sake lower the price of blood rubies(does anyone really buy them?)