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Update on the Dungeon Key Change

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  • iandarkswordiandarksword Member Posts: 978 Arc User
    Hopefully a rewards rework can give purpose to all facets of gameplay, PvP, PvE, Foundry, Events, and provide incentives for players to participate. Something as important as this requires patience and communication. Please inform players if testing of new loot tables occurs on Preview. Feedback on this issue is extremely important as is the reasoning behind why certain loot or level of loot is found in certain areas of the game. It will take both sides to find a balanced solution, and it's not going to happen overnight.
    "I don't know, I'm making it up as I go..."
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  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    Oh, and let's not forget about about the stuff from the Gateway (RIP my friend)...
    • Lightfoot Thief
    • Loyal Companion Gear
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    a nice chance for orange rings, orange marks, a BIG chance to find another legendary key inside the chest, a big change for a lockbox key, rare boe loot, power points
  • prozologyprozology Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2 Arc User
    Good to hear the keychange will be delayed untill the drops get reworked.

    I think it would be a good idea to remove preservation wards and coals from invoking, and add them to dungeon/campaign chests. You should be rewarded for actually playing content and not for invoking on (50) alts.

    It might also be fun to add campaign related fashion items or transmutes to campaign chests.

    Other options could be: greater marks, superior mark of potency, campaign vouchers for stronghold, campaign related companions/mounts and companion equips. An increased dropchance for artifacts or +5 rings is also welcome.

    While we are at it, level up rewards are kinda lame as well. Maybe its an idea to add a new level up currency with a shop, in which u could buy convenience items, RP, powerpoints or even dungeon keys.

    Just some thoughts tho :D

  • torontodavetorontodave Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 992 Arc User
    - I want a quest item to drop. A map to a loot cache quest chain that rewards a title and transmute and perhaps mount? befitting the adventure taken. Recycle at will. Green companions and mounts thematically linked to heroic questlines.

    - I want Foundry rewards. For Authors and players. A Daily key, a 0/3 ring? artifact? set that only drops in Featured Foundry quests, a Foundry campaign. 365 chosen foundry missions in a year long campaign with rewards at 30/60/90/180/360/365 quests completed.

    - I want completion and competition.
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  • silver11#9318 silver11 Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    so you make yourselves the villains to become the heroes? seems smart. delaying the key change wont make it better. players should not be punished for wanting the best things in game. you advertise this game as free to play so be that. the best suggestion ive read to this fiasco is adding a legendary key to vip at the highest level. this not only forces people to log in daily, but theres a reason to keep up their vip. win win. also make legendary keys way cheaper. like 10 for 100 zen. i know when you guys announce these changes that theyre set in stone. even now you said its still happening just later. this time ill be the one monitoring the changes you guys make to the game, then ill decide if i stay or go. i wont threaten that players are going to quit the game or ill stop putting $ because those things dont seem to matter. thanks again for giving us back what we already had. its appreciated.
  • elvalianonelvalianon Member Posts: 331 Arc User
    edited October 2016
    Thank you! :D

    Loot wise I would like to see:

    - Preservation wards and coalwards.
    Of course they should have small chances to drop, probably as rare as finding a artifact belt or necklace.

    - Enchantments that actually match the dungeons required Item Level to get into.
    We don't have use for low level enchants when we are running around with much higher to even get in the dungeon in the first place.

    - Unbound gear.
    So that we can trade or sell what we can't use or need.

    Cash of campaign currency
    For new players or alts a cash of campaign currency would be very welcome. It would be a bag with 5 crescents for the Sharandar campaign for example. We should be able to choose which type of campaign currency we want when opening the bag and the bags should be BoA. Amount and type all depends on the difficulty of the dungeon and the campaign itself.

    - Inventory bags
    A very small and rare chance to win inventory bags, like the dragon cult pack in Tiamat.

    - Companions
    A medium chance to win a common or rare companion, much like the companions from events. Unbound.

    - Companion gear
    I know you might have something on the planning already to fix the gap that the Gaetway left. Just reminding you it would be good to get this loot from dungeons too.

    -Epic Insignia's
    From high tier dungeons epic insignia drops would be very welcome.

    I will update here if I have any idea for more :)

    Please do visit my feedback thread on this subject if you have not already. It might give you some ideas or at least a bit more insight on what the experience has been like for us.

    arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/12901298

    Post edited by elvalianon on
  • silence1xsilence1x Member Posts: 1,503 Arc User
    I appreciate the response. Thanks @mimicking for that.

    As for suggestions, this says it all:

    ....reboot the loot...

    Better rewards for playing means more people playing.

    I aim to misbehave
  • straylight#4129 straylight Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    Please thinking about making the tiamat hoard more obtainable. In the four months I've played I've seen it at 100% twice. The second time it was literally for only two runs. Not even having to change the rewards cuz I personally know of 6 people that got the orb during those two runs. It's just literally impossible on xbox unless people save for months and a lot of people at that
  • kevinwinterkevinwinter Member Posts: 15 Arc User

    Oh, and let's not forget about about the stuff from the Gateway (RIP my friend)...

    • Lightfoot Thief
    • Loyal Companion Gear
    Oh man, I had forgotten about these. I'd love to have the option to obtain these again.
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator
    \o/ Thanks @strumslinger! That'd be great, also, please look into the prices of the keys. And a new system perhaps?

    A new key creation system, where there is just 1 key (along with the keys from WB, VIP, Daily Key, so 5 keys in total), that can be made using each of the campaigns with the respective campaign currency. For example, a common 'Campaign Chest Key' (that can open all of the chests like Legendary Dragon Key) that can be made using each of the campaigns, separately. That is, I should be able to Sharandar dailies and make a 'Campaign Chest Key', simultaneously, I should be able to do Dread Ring dailies, Icewind Dale dailies, etc and make 'Campaign Chest Keys' with their respective currencies.
    This has 2 benefits, firstly, there's a reason to do old campaigns. Secondly, people who would like to do more runs can make more keys by working for them. The Legendary Dragon Keys can continue to be available for those who don't have time or are lazy and want to buy them.

    And/or remove keys from our bags.


    Unrelated, can you please stop 'Return on Investment' from being auto-added (it's from Icewind Dale). It has been the biggest reason for my hatred for Icewind Dale, and I still refuse to go there except for my daily thanks to that quest. You can give that quest to the guy in the middle, between the AB and TT leaders.
    Also, remove the tools like Fishing Rods, Hammerstone Pick, etc from out bags please.
    FrozenFire
  • shadowgod244shadowgod244 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
    as someone who hates PoM and yet has ran it thousands if not more (im not exaggerating here) i just want the rising crit ring +5 ive seen a relex sight and three rising recovering rings, i really hate this run as its hard to get gold unless there are at least two players with 3k + stats and full bonding (even then its still not always possible) the fact that the protect the prophecy version bugs out and loses the second phase if you finish anything earlier than the last 10 seconds and the demonic incursion version second phase is near impossible to get gold on without a max out team. i think you need to re-adjust this to make it doable for more than just the elite as i see players who are 1300 IL quite often.

    on a side note could you make a ring exchange so if i earned a + 5 recover ring in PoM i can switch it for anything from the same prize table
  • loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    Honestly didn't think this would happen. So kudos!

    The overall mishandling of the situation is still valid, but you gotta give them credit for reversing the change and admitting they <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up.

    As I've stated in other threads, I'd like a system where farm loot and progression loot is separated from each other. The farm chest could be opened with the daily dungeon / vip keys and should always return more value than the key costs in the Bazaar.

    The progression chest should return the latest gear and major prices and can only be opened with the campaign keys or legendary dragon one. Also I'm in line with @frozenfirevr that all campaign tasks should return the same type of key up until Underdark. You still want separate keys for FBI and Svardborg to direct players to the latest content. Otherwise getting keys for the latest dungeons would be too easy.​​
  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Member Posts: 1,840 Arc User
    Great. Now about the gateway ;)
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    Thanks. Thanks for seeing the root of our complaints so clearly.

    What I want to see? I think what folks have said about implementing a purchase system for legendary rings holds weight. I know it's a kind of "oh no, not another currency" system, but I feel this is outweighed by adding a failsafe for buying the ring you want after your umptieth run without it dropping. I don't like the idea of needing to trade up rings, which has been proposed as well. Too fiddly, and a demand on inventory that we can't handle. At least currency doesn't take up "real" space.

    One of the better drops possible in level 60 epic dungeons prior to the cap increase was a Greater Mark of Potency, and both these and Superior MoP could make a return. Options for earning these from gameplay (as opposed to throwing all your AD at them) are starkly limited, and you need a bloody lot of them.

    More options for earning wards would also be very welcome.

    BoE companion gear would be splendid. Something to sell if you don't need it yourself. I know you feel the stats on the Loyal gear need tuning, and that's reasonable, but the fundamental design on these was optimal, tailored for each of the 4 roles.

    One thing I really want more gameplay options for is companion upgrade tokens. These costs in AD are astronomical, and upgrade tokens are not a viable alternative for most, so upgrading companions is something most players have to consider carefully or opt out of instead of just upgrading whatever companions they want to for fun. The massive expense involved in setting up your companions is one of the factors behind people's alts being increasingly left by the wayside. If tokens were implemented as a dungeon drop, I'd like to see them in packs of 15 (as all upgrades require multiples of 15), and not character-bound until opened. I could be swayed by arguments for either account-bound or unbound packs, but the latter would be further satisfaction for the crowd clamoring for things to sell.

    Cubes of Augmentation have functioned more as a blockade for players trying to optimize their characters than as a successful AD sink. People who play the game need far too many of them and have to start from scratch every time they get a weapon upgrade (incidentally, this is one of the examples of ways in which getting new gear is BURDENSOME instead of EXCITING). Goldsellers/botters don't give a flying hamster... they're not trying to gear up. If there is no interest in making fundamental changes to how the Cube system works, more sources of them please.

    I think there's validity also to the request to make Fangbreaker a reliable source of lanolin.

    Cosmetic things are mighty cool as far as uber-rare prestige goes, but for common drops, I'd like to see things that are practical and universally needed.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • oldbaldyoneoldbaldyone Member Posts: 1,840 Arc User



    Unrelated, can you please stop 'Return on Investment' from being auto-added (it's from Icewind Dale). It has been the biggest reason for my hatred for Icewind Dale, and I still refuse to go there except for my daily thanks to that quest. You can give that quest to the guy in the middle, between the AB and TT leaders.
    Also, remove the tools like Fishing Rods, Hammerstone Pick, etc from out bags please.

    I am almost positive I saw this in a patch note somewhere that it was being removed as an auto add.

    +1000 to all the other comments about there being way to many keys, and +1000000 to them for reverting this change until the loot can be reviewed.

    One request: I don't asume that I will ever be able to run an instance once, get the best loot, and be done. But on the flip side, you should NEVER have to run something 100, 1000 times, to get an item you want - that is NOT FUN. Remember, while you are programming all this mandatory farming and grinding into the game, that a GAME is meant to be FUN, not a second job.
  • zman81420zman81420 Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    Shock and awe. This feels like the night before Christmas :)
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  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator
    edited October 2016
    Also, please change the ring system to give a token instead of a ring itself. For example, if we were to get a +1 Ring of Natural Order :p give us a '+1 Ring Token' instead... This'll save a LOT of irritation. The system is already in place (Sahha Ticket Ball Tickets). You've been giving us an RNG within an RNG and that ain't fair. And, allow us to trade our existing rings for other rings or respective tokens.

    Edit: Another idea, a single ring with a cube system like our Artifact Main and Offhands might work too, if you wanna monetize it. I'd not prefer this though :p
    FrozenFire
  • zwalkzwalk Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Unfortunately I already left for another game as a result of the initial change and because I didn't like the way it was handled.

    What I will say is that in 11 years of playing MMOs I have never seen a team read an uproar post like that, listen, and make a change.

    Props to you for that.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,506 Arc User
    Thank you.

    I would like to see rewards redone for other aspects of the game. It's been done before. When I played before, I referred to the second chest in Dread Ring lairs as the Coffer of Arcane Peridots. Came back to the game in August to find Greater and even the new Superior marks in it. Its a rare chance and I don't run those lairs every day, but it is a joy to get something good.

    Make it so every player gets a drop from dungeon bosses, even if it is a relatively low value item like a peridot.

    As far as dungeon loot goes, don't forget about the old armor and weapon skins from pre-mod 6: Armor of Lolth, Sharpened Ice Axe, pirate hats etc... These skins still exist in the game. Put them to use again. Make them account bound (Or if BOP they should only drop for a class that van use them) so that they
    actually mean something. The game needs more customization though.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User



    Unrelated, can you please stop 'Return on Investment' from being auto-added (it's from Icewind Dale). It has been the biggest reason for my hatred for Icewind Dale, and I still refuse to go there except for my daily thanks to that quest. You can give that quest to the guy in the middle, between the AB and TT leaders.
    Also, remove the tools like Fishing Rods, Hammerstone Pick, etc from out bags please.

    I am almost positive I saw this in a patch note somewhere that it was being removed as an auto add.
    Only that it will be possible to drop, IIRC.

    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Member Posts: 1,654 Arc User
    I'm happy that the course has been stalled for now as the change require some long-term thinking to be properly implemented.

    At this point I'm not going to repeat the string of "more loot in chest". I think it should be fairly obvious that what people want in a game are rewards.

    The sad part of all this is what you (the devs) can't ever replace. The volume of friends that have left the game over the last week on XB1(or Pc or PS4). My friends list is now like a ghost town.

    Most of these players have all taken steps to ensure that they would not want to return to this game. Some have handed away all of their top tier enchants, unbound items (mounts, RP, etc). All given away just so they wouldn't be enticed to come back.

    You can't replace that community that was built over the course of a year. But hopefully you can rebuild from this disaster.
  • hanniballa#2401 hanniballa Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    No more HAMSTER peridots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • unknowndramaunknowndrama Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    deleted
    Post edited by unknowndrama on
  • damnaciousdamnacious Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 354 Arc User
    While i applaud the fact people actually listened to the player base, I think it's important for the development team to take a good, hard look at how they arrive at decisions like these, particularly with no player base consultation. To date, there has been a rather inordinately large number of instances where 'changes' have been made (supposedly) for the better and/or proposed, yet with no consultation and, with extremely poor (almost backward and short-sighted) implementation in general. This process obviously need to change as, every time this sort of thing happens, it doesn't matter whether you implement what you planned or not, you've just lost players which you need not have had to. We all want this game to thrive and survive and, we're all willing to help, but we can't help stupidity. Let's be brutally honest here: we want you and this game as much as you NEED us. Don't keep stuffing us around and treating us as if we're stupid. Discuss ideas with us, work with us, and not against us. At the end of the day, and as many players have said as much previously, this isn't the only MMO and, unless more care is taken to consider the player base, in a very short frame of time there will be no player base.

    As for what i would like to see in chests...

    There obviously already exists a table of some sort which indicates the relative value that you assign to each item in the game. What i'd like to see is EVERY ITEM in the game being available in the chests (while applicable to character level, apart from cosmetic items), with the probability of each being in a chest based upon that value, with more unique items being extraordinarily rare (such as a legendary mount) and, more common items (such as a healing potion) being more common. As long as the value of the loot in each chest equals approximately a minimum of what a player would need to spend upon a key, then it would be a fair system, IF those keys were more readily available, such as those purchasable through the Wondrous Bazaar (although an increased cost for 'better' keys would be reasonable).

    However, I do like the suggestion of a key having a limited number of 'view lockbox contents' uses and, perhaps this could be incorporated into a variety of keys being available at different prices with differing amounts of 'uses'?

    With all of this in mind, I think it's about time that players had the facility to use a "key chain" rather than having keys of any sort sitting in their inventory. After-all, it's only a suggestion that has been made repeatedly since close to closed beta isn't it?

    While we're on the topic of reducing completely unnecessary items in inventory, when will players be obtaining an RP bag? For example, being able to equip a 'special' bag in which only RP can go into but, which has five times the inventory slots?

    On a similar vein, what about a 'set collection bag' for a player's bank where collected item sets (only one of each set piece) can be stored? I know i'm not the only 'collector' out there screaming for more space...

    One of the largest and, in my opinion, most important changes that needs to be made is a change to the loot rewards system in Heroic Encounters and other similar game play where, unless you deal competitive damage, you don't get any decent loot. This system does not reward support classes and only encourages damage type game play. For example, i challenge the developers to create a full survival based IV Protection tank and, tank a HE and see how long it takes them to get the 'best' loot (any GFs here remember the BI bracers?).
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator



    Unrelated, can you please stop 'Return on Investment' from being auto-added (it's from Icewind Dale). It has been the biggest reason for my hatred for Icewind Dale, and I still refuse to go there except for my daily thanks to that quest. You can give that quest to the guy in the middle, between the AB and TT leaders.
    Also, remove the tools like Fishing Rods, Hammerstone Pick, etc from out bags please.

    I am almost positive I saw this in a patch note somewhere that it was being removed as an auto add.
    Maybe you did, but no, it didn't change.
    FrozenFire
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited October 2016

    Also, please change the ring system to give a token instead of a ring itself. For example, if we were to get a +1 Ring of Natural Order :p give us a '+1 Ring Token' instead... This'll save a LOT of irritation. The system is already in place (Sahha Ticket Ball Tickets). You've been giving us an RNG within an RNG and that ain't fair. And, allow us to trade our existing rings for other rings or respective tokens.

    image

    I wish I could gggggggiiddddy-up vote this!

    Put a Legendary Ring vendor somewhere. Add to the loot table:

    Decrepit Ancient Ring: "You can feel the magical powerful flowing just underneath all the dirt and grime on this ring. You're sure the ring is full of untapped power. Now if only you knew someone who could restore it for you..."

    Then allow people to trade this "ring token" for the Legendary Ring of their choice.
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
  • tripsofthrymrtripsofthrymr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,624 Community Moderator
    Thank you Cryptic for listening to player feedback. I hope this is a the beginning of a trend of closer interaction with the community. There are numerous, well thought out suggestions on the forums for improving many aspects of the game.

    The best way to learn what your customers will like - and will pay for - is to ask them and listen when they respond.

    reboot the loot

    Sounds like a great hashtag #RebootTheLoot
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  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator
    edited October 2016
    zwalk said:

    Unfortunately I already left for another game as a result of the initial change and because I didn't like the way it was handled.



    What I will say is that in 11 years of playing MMOs I have never seen a team read an uproar post like that, listen, and make a change.



    Props to you for that.

    It isn't a change, preview, remember? The change was subject to change... I don't completely trust you have left :p but optimally people wait for the actual change to hit before making big decisions.
    FrozenFire
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