@zebular whether it was the truth or a lie, it does not change the fact that the post that is presented to us is highly offensive and there should be an apology for it. Furthermore, it also does not change the fact this is the only game I know of where the loot is so bad that players would want to decline it anyhow.
These are a few serious suggestions for how to show good faith effort to improve looting when keys will be auto-consumed and to repair community relations.
- Re-evaluating drop rates in existing content, not just a nebulous "oooh, maybe we can design better rewards in the future". If you have kept the drop rates so defeatingly low because players could keep using the same key until they got something decent, this needs to stop immediately. If you must consume your key every time you open a chest, that chest had darned well better have a solid chance of dropping something decent. IMO, a start would be a minimum of an epic ring in each Underdark bonus chest, for example. +1/2 rings still possible from the auto-reward, and *not* with an increased drop chance. The RNG still allowing a +3 ring and there being so many types of rings in the pool means that there's still a high chance of not getting what you wanted, but the odds are still greatly improved by removing a huge amount of the trash. Chances of artifact drops from bonus chests must be much increased as well. You cannot make this change and ignore the fact that you've designed the loot to be 99% GARBAGE based on working around players being able to reject said garbage.
-Reduced cost of Legendary Dragon Keys is still too much without substantial adjustments in other areas. Needs to be balanced against probable value of loot, but also against how players are spending their time. If you can use 10 keys in a night of gaming, someone who pays *real money* has just spent five dollars. You want us to play every day? That's not sustainable. Check your expectations.
- VIP dungeon keys should work in more types of content. At the absolute bare minimum, they should function in levelling dungeons. It's been dumb since the advent of VIP that they don't. Increased access to Adventurer seals and blue gear isn't going to break anything, and the AD cost of a key that works in levelling dungeons is shameful. Incidentally, the free Daily Dungeon key should now be available when Cloak Tower unlocks, not when Cragmire does. Other changes to keys might negate the need for more than this, but if you only changed ONE THING, then converting the existing per diem keys to a skeleton key would be something.
-VIP per diem rewards should include a Legendary Dragon Key or Keys at some tier(s). I am thinking it would be not overdone if it was only a per-account reward like the lockbox key, but perhaps incremented in quantity as tiered rewards. Going all the way up to 5/day/account at rank 12 would be great, though perhaps asking too much. I'd say no less than 3 though. VIP has undeniably lost value for players due to various changes to the t-bar store and AD gain, though it's still a great convenience. Adding value back to VIP would soften the blow of the key change, AND of the changes that have depreciated VIP itself.
- Respect our inventory. The number of different kinds of craftable keys is ludicrous. Anyone looking at the list in the first post can see that. Legendary Dragon Keys were a space-saving feature in addition to their other functions. System overhauls could include changing all campaign tasks to craft a universal "campaign chest key" that can open any bonus chest, and/or providing storage for keys. A generic campaign chest key would add flexibility for players who could take the key they made from several campaigns but only use it in Castle Never, for example. Players are still limited by their access to campaign currencies.
-Respect our time. Reduce timers on key-crafting to seconds. Players are sufficiently gated by currency gain (which our Strongholds and non-key campaign tasks still hunger for as well). If someone wants to craft a bunch of keys in succession so they can spam content on a day they have more time, just let them. It's not going to break anything.
I know that a few of my suggestions tied to VIP are encouraging cash shop engagement in a different way, but heck, it's not like I don't think anything in the game should be monetized. But I want to see spending encouraged by positive reinforcement, not negative.
Guys you are playing exactly into what he wants.. just stop posting about him, with him, or anything, he is just trying to get this thread closed.
If I could get his posts removed I would, but I cant.
JUST ignore him.
This is simply not the issue, who gives three effs about a mod who barely plays anything in the end game.. just stop it.
This. The issue is keys ! And Loot ! (They proved repeatedly that they lack any sense of communication and trust, non communicating for 2 years about a 'bug' or now lying about it only proves it. )
So lets get back to keys, and loot.
3 of my favourite posts since thread 28.
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krasensilverMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 27Arc User
If the gaming company pays no heed to your criticism, negative or positive, leave, just leave the game and try to avoid the company. Check it again later if you want, but do not give them a cent or even a minute of your play time.
+1 its bad reputation not for just this game but all other games. I dont think I will even bother to look any game published by this company coz they simply dont care about players or their ideas.
sameriker, i do like "reroll" loot concept for cost almost nothing or very little tiny cost.
Zeb, i knew you since Asheron's Call, we rarely talk, i knew there was old post back in jan of 2015, but now i am really concern being labled as Exploiter because i am not aware that was "Bug", and dont like it, it seem it is an insult. you already know it isnt players' fault that not knowing did exploited the chest options.
it is really those Devs' Fault for allowing for so long since pre-mod 3, we do want a real Formal Apologies from devs and those guys in producing team, and head director for allowing too long and calling us exploiters, it is they who created this problems, not us, we didnt make contents! we didnt design this.
i am sure guys at Hasbro would gotten exploded posts in thier forum site about Neverwinter is being mishandled and mismanaged, possible of about abuse of liscense contract, hearing about having EULA being broken countless times, they would revoke contract if violated.
IF you are going on with this change THEN implement this:
Higher value(Epic no less)/BoE high end gear drops to ALL Epic content 1st chest should reward us with Epics 2nd chest should reward us with Epics and a chance to gain something really valuable.
Remove green and blue gear drops from Epic dungeons and grant us more RP in the chests
Make a tooltip to show the loot-table on the chest and drop rates.
While your at it, change the HAMSTER tooltips that state utter HAMSTER like "A chance to hit..." what chance? how many %s is the chance.
Tell us how the loot-tables will change so we can give feedback on them.
Launch these changes ON THE SAME DAY but only AFTER we have given you FEEDBACK of the loots.
This is only an issue now (7 mods later) because of the three chests needed for RP in Storvald. It's a cash grab, pure and simple - a pretty transparent and sleazy one, at that. Cryptic had many more pressing issues to address if they were in the "bug" fixing mood - or they could have addressed some basic QoL issues, like loot quality, professions and nodes, inventory and binding types, Gateway rewards relocation, or the missing dungeons...
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,406Arc User
edited October 2016
After reading these "not a bug" is a bug, money grab is not money grab, a lie is not a lie, a "bug" that is the One Bug that rules all bugs and have to be "fixed" before all other pressing bugs, a "bug" that they knew they will upset a lot of people, I have a vision .... a vision of a Presidential Candidate.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on just after Module 3 that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.
So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!
Whether this is a bug or not, whether the moderators knew or not, whether you lied or not, the players DO NOT want this change. We're giving feedback, and its BLATANTLY obvious we do not want this change. So what you're saying is, no matter what we say, no matter the feedback, you're STILL gonna go through with "fixing" this? What's the point of players providing feedback? Why even announce it? Just shove the fix down our throats and tell us to deal with it. Its now more obvious than ever you'll do anything to milk us for every dime we have, even if it means losing the few players you have left. What a joke.
If they place a AD tree in PE where you could get all teh AD you wanted.. then took it out.. the players WOULD NOT WANT THIS CHANGE... and so what? Some changes NEED to be made for the game to go on and even be better than it has been before.
Stop being spoiled little children and acting like you are ENTITLED to a free and easy game to play.
“Improvise, Adapt and Overcome!”
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
Ok....... so they're not "lying" but this is still no less decitful and reprehensible behavior than if it was an outright lie because apparently it was covered up. More importantly, the coverup includes the volunteer moderator group as well as actual Cryptic staff. Not only should Cryptic be ashamed of themselves, clearly the moderators, given their duplicity in this sham, should likewise be ashamed. (Newer mods, who were not involved in this, excluded of course)
You act as though this is knowledge we've been brooding over for years or something... It's only come up twice.. once just after Module 3 and then was forgotten about until I finally started reading this thread and then now with this thread. I actually stayed out of this thread until two nights ago as I have been real busy with work. After reading comment after comment about the bug being a "lie" I finally spoke up in our Moderator chat and started recalling the past experience with the topic of looking into a chest but not looting. As so many Cryptic staff have changed, I am sure the same thing happened there for many. That some knew it was a bug but most did not as it just rarely came up as a topic, literally only once before.
This doesn't change the fact that in order for this fix to be acceptable now in our current and future Neverwinter, that drastic change has to happen to the loot inside our chests. They need, as I have said a few time now, to be made at the very least worth the key used... especially if we will now be forced to consume a key no matter what.
It still doesn't change the fact, that they are lieing to us. Mind you, I am not talking about the supposed bug, but about the motivation behind the change. To imply that the change was about "resolveing an inequity between the minority of players who knew about it and the majority who did not" rather than the truth: the greed of money-grubbing wh0res!
Launch these changes ON THE SAME DAY but only AFTER we have given you FEEDBACK of the loots.
Agree. I've said as much as well.
Had they done this in the first place - the rage this change is generating would have been exponentially smaller. In compensation, we'll allow you to pay us 15% less zen to be screwed is NOT compensation. If you're going to fix bugs remove features that everyone (even the moderators who explicitly knew it was an exploit when no one else in the game did and STILL recommended players use it) considers a valuable and important QoL item then have the common sense to fix the other massive problem: the loot. Do those AT THE SAME TIME.
So, the recommendation:
Don't make this change now. Fix the loot tables in the chests AND change the key behavior, put those changes out on Preview at the same time (along with a vendor that gives free keys.........) and let us test and provide feedback. Don't try to spoon feed us HAMSTER like this and expect to keep your customers.
Launch these changes ON THE SAME DAY but only AFTER we have given you FEEDBACK of the loots.
Agree. I've said as much as well.
Had they done this in the first place - the rage this change is generating would have been exponentially smaller. In compensation, we'll allow you to pay us 15% less zen to be screwed is NOT compensation. If you're going to fix bugs remove features that everyone (even the moderators who explicitly knew it was an exploit when no one else in the game did and STILL recommended players use it) considers a valuable and important QoL item then have the common sense to fix the other massive problem: the loot. Do those AT THE SAME TIME.
So, the recommendation:
Don't make this change now. Fix the loot tables in the chests AND change the key behavior, put those changes out on Preview at the same time (along with a vendor that gives free keys.........) and let us test and provide feedback. Don't try to spoon feed us HAMSTER like this and expect to keep your customers.
Launch these changes ON THE SAME DAY but only AFTER we have given you FEEDBACK of the loots.
Agree. I've said as much as well.
Had they done this in the first place - the rage this change is generating would have been exponentially smaller. In compensation, we'll allow you to pay us 15% less zen to be screwed is NOT compensation. If you're going to fix bugs remove features that everyone (even the moderators who explicitly knew it was an exploit when no one else in the game did and STILL recommended players use it) considers a valuable and important QoL item then have the common sense to fix the other massive problem: the loot. Do those AT THE SAME TIME.
So, the recommendation:
Don't make this change now. Fix the loot tables in the chests AND change the key behavior, put those changes out on Preview at the same time (along with a vendor that gives free keys.........) and let us test and provide feedback. Don't try to spoon feed us HAMSTER like this and expect to keep your customers.
Can be nitpicky, call it a design flaw, a bug or whatever. It's all irrelevant, after 2 years that's there, and known to everyone as button that does what it says, you can't call it a bug no meter what you intended to begin with, it's now how it is.
Now lets look honestly at what happened, after the DD removal and key introduction, this is not the first time this was attempted. First time the change was ninja added to mod6 or 7 and was revertad after a couple of days because it was buggy as hell. Now recently to subvert the keys the Devs added a box inside a box (FBI). -- I will never use a key in a box inside a box that gives me BtC item not for my class. Now looks like the devs saw from the few people who run FBI, that we look at the chest, do not like what inside and leave it unclaimed.. And hence the change we see coming. Next mod we have 3 chests, but we can't have it that people will farm the 'keys' once and then start doing the raid. We must force them either buy the keys or go nuts with grind.... and here we are...
Lets leave the really badly worded announcement for a minute. Today top gear has the following: Rings: +5 from FBI, CN, PoM, ToDG Drop rate so low it's silly, if I'll want to get the rings I'll need how many hundreds of keys for a ring ? Or thousands?
Armor: Not only needs restoration and upkeep, but also getting it is extremely difficult, the box inside the box gives the WRONG CLASS. Worse, next 'mod' will have 3 chests with same HAMSTER with minimal chance of something useful.
Weapons: Nothing smart to say here, because the devs listened to all our feedback about the previous things, we get again RNG gated stuff. With 3 chests !
We've said plenty of times about progress and RNG, RNG is not progress. MMORPGS are all based on this:
And RNG is not this, running hundreds of times the same thing and not progressing a bit is not working.
Now how it's related to the keys and cash grab. lets say I want to grind it all, I can make few keys and start grinding hoping for the RNG gods. If the ring chance is 0.5% now I need 500 runs on average to get it, 1k runs for 2 rings. So with 10 runs per day of something we can average it to 100 days, sad.
Lets say I must use the key each time, now it's 1k * 18 hours per key, this is 750 days. Good luck with that. (And even if I cut it in health because we have the other chest, it's 375 days. So......)
I think the above is important! And I also agree 100% with the following. So it´s important to: a. gain back trust and mutual respect by addressing and clearing up the insult and then b. have a discussion about rewards especially with regards to mod 10b; the way they intend to do this isn´t gonna fly...(for me and apparently a lot of others and there´s still time yet not to go ahead with this)
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on just after Module 3 that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.
So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!
Zebular - I've had a lot of respect of the work you put in. But frankly - you are making a big mistake by trying to justify this.
To show why I remain of my previous view despite your elaboration let me unpack what you are saying (in the quote above and further on) a little: 1. You are saying that not losing a key if you decline was an unintended feature, i.e. a bug and this was well known back in mod 3 (over 2 years ago). This means the design expectation was that the loot on offer is acceptable for the keys. This is clearly not the case (the loot even used to be worse) and this is even confirmed in the offending post (as why else improve the rewards). Whatever the original origin of the feature it became accepted and completely integrated into the game - both in terms of loot design and even in terms of maintenance. Let's not forget when this "bug" was not working it got fixed again. In short - calling it a bug is in any conventional sense of the word is not true.
2. You are saying it was not fixed at the time because it "wasn't something of a real issue". You are giving us no reason why this issue has now become real (and frankly I doubt this would have been hard to fix as soon as someone noticed it given you already have a "you peek you lose" feature in Dread ring). I don't believe anyone's behaviour in dungeons has been different at all and you even have a box in FBI that attempts to circumvent this feature by having built in additional RNG. In truth - this has never been an issue because it was an accepted part of the game by the majority (unlike what the post says) including game designers and mods.
3. You are also that as it did not have a big impact you stayed silent to avoid people were calling each other exploiters etc. So instead Cryptic as a company have now done the same thing. I wouldn't have minded people coming out and saying "it was never in our original plans to have it work this way, but we want to fix the rewards and need to make this change to do that". But Cryptic have made the untrue statement that this was known to or used by a minority and that it needs to be removed to be fair to others. That IS calling us exploiters whether you like to see it that way or not. And yes - all of the above amounts to me being one extraordinarily unhappy costumer who feels his investment (financial and time) looks like it has been an incredibly poor one all of a sudden.
In short - please don't defend the indefensible. I strongly suggest an apology be forthcoming from whoever scripted this stupid statement. Then there may be room to "move on" and be "productive". And as to productive statements - people come to this game because it is DUNGEONS and Dragons. There needs to be real attention to making dungeons worthwhile and enjoyable. But anyway - let's look at that again when there's been some truth about the above.
2. RnG still in play for getting some of that. (With this RnG still in play you could maybe go faster then the time gate if your "lucky")
3. Campaign store has away to get the requirements to get item without RnG (using previous campaign currency, new campaign currency, and crafting). This give us a reason to go to the older zones and keeps crafting current within the context of the new campaign. 3.a. If you have to time gate (which I would understand and think most players would understand) use the non RnG method as a time gate threshold.
Where does this leave keys for dungeons?
If you continue with the projected path it could still work in your favor and this is how I would see it working.
1. 3 chests (or 1 at the end of a dungeon). 1 uses freebie key, 1 uses campaign key, 1 uses zen key (or allow the user to select which to to use if only 1 chest is at the end of the dungeon).
2. RnG for each chest (or key) is different. Each of the keys would increase the percent chance to get some coveted loot.
3. Also, as part of the chests (or keys) the player would get and increasing(based on chest open or key used) amount of whatever gated currency they need to get that same item for the campaign store.
To add to my idea the dungeon chest should have in its loot table upto 2/3 of the reagents needed to make a campaign. It a pain to run dungeons on my main and 2 alts, tend crafting, do control i's, fill the guild coffers, and then go farm the zones for components required to make keys or whatever else....
To much stuff hidden behind RnG please go beyond considering some the changes folks in this post have recommended, get onboard......
Here again is the reason people decline loot, just in case some forgot :-O
It's the fact that we HAD to peek because the loot SUCKED.
That's the bottom line. If 95% of the time people actually USED the key to TAKE the loot, this would be a non-issue.
Do the developer not see this? I'm literally exasperated to the point where it's getting tough to type.
The loot is so bad in the game that people are clearing content, opening up the reward chest and saying, "No thanks".
Can we let that sink in for a minute.
Sinking...
Sinking...
Sinking...
Do you get it now? Loot. An aspect that is so fundamental to Dungeons and Dragons. The entire point of there being Dungeons to delve and Dragons to kill is to take their loot.
And you guys have literally created some bizarro-world D&D where thousands and thousands and thousands of adventures are literally exercising their option to not take the loot because it's so bad.
These are a few serious suggestions for how to show good faith effort to improve looting when keys will be auto-consumed and to repair community relations.
- Re-evaluating drop rates in existing content, not just a nebulous "oooh, maybe we can design better rewards in the future". If you have kept the drop rates so defeatingly low because players could keep using the same key until they got something decent, this needs to stop immediately. If you must consume your key every time you open a chest, that chest had darned well better have a solid chance of dropping something decent. IMO, a start would be a minimum of an epic ring in each Underdark bonus chest, for example. +1/2 rings still possible from the auto-reward, and *not* with an increased drop chance. The RNG still allowing a +3 ring and there being so many types of rings in the pool means that there's still a high chance of not getting what you wanted, but the odds are still greatly improved by removing a huge amount of the trash. Chances of artifact drops from bonus chests must be much increased as well. You cannot make this change and ignore the fact that you've designed the loot to be 99% GARBAGE based on working around players being able to reject said garbage.
-Reduced cost of Legendary Dragon Keys is still too much without substantial adjustments in other areas. Needs to be balanced against probable value of loot, but also against how players are spending their time. If you can use 10 keys in a night of gaming, someone who pays *real money* has just spent five dollars. You want us to play every day? That's not sustainable. Check your expectations.
- VIP dungeon keys should work in more types of content. At the absolute bare minimum, they should function in levelling dungeons. It's been dumb since the advent of VIP that they don't. Increased access to Adventurer seals and blue gear isn't going to break anything, and the AD cost of a key that works in levelling dungeons is shameful. Incidentally, the free Daily Dungeon key should now be available when Cloak Tower unlocks, not when Cragmire does. Other changes to keys might negate the need for more than this, but if you only changed ONE THING, then converting the existing per diem keys to a skeleton key would be something.
-VIP per diem rewards should include a Legendary Dragon Key or Keys at some tier(s). I am thinking it would be not overdone if it was only a per-account reward like the lockbox key, but perhaps incremented in quantity as tiered rewards. Going all the way up to 5/day/account at rank 12 would be great, though perhaps asking too much. I'd say no less than 3 though. VIP has undeniably lost value for players due to various changes to the t-bar store and AD gain, though it's still a great convenience. Adding value back to VIP would soften the blow of the key change, AND of the changes that have depreciated VIP itself.
- Respect our inventory. The number of different kinds of craftable keys is ludicrous. Anyone looking at the list in the first post can see that. Legendary Dragon Keys were a space-saving feature in addition to their other functions. System overhauls could include changing all campaign tasks to craft a universal "campaign chest key" that can open any bonus chest, and/or providing storage for keys. A generic campaign chest key would add flexibility for players who could take the key they made from several campaigns but only use it in Castle Never, for example. Players are still limited by their access to campaign currencies.
-Respect our time. Reduce timers on key-crafting to seconds. Players are sufficiently gated by currency gain (which our Strongholds and non-key campaign tasks still hunger for as well). If someone wants to craft a bunch of keys in succession so they can spam content on a day they have more time, just let them. It's not going to break anything.
I know that a few of my suggestions tied to VIP are encouraging cash shop engagement in a different way, but heck, it's not like I don't think anything in the game should be monetized. But I want to see spending encouraged by positive reinforcement, not negative.
+1 to any or all of this.
As much as I enjoy forum drama. I really, really, do. These are good solutions and shouldn't be lost in all the madness. Although I am taking screen shots, for future chuckles, or just in case.
I ran CN for 3 hours.. got 1 Azure Enchantment Rank 8 in the bonus chest during all that time.. loot in those chest is a HAMSTER joke and people shouldnt be forced to use up a key they spent a lot of time farming for on silly +1 rings -.-
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
Launch these changes ON THE SAME DAY but only AFTER we have given you FEEDBACK of the loots.
So, the recommendation:
Don't make this change now. Fix the loot tables in the chests AND change the key behavior, put those changes out on Preview at the same time (along with a vendor that gives free keys.........) and let us test and provide feedback. Don't try to spoon feed us HAMSTER like this and expect to keep your customers.
I agree. Based on the announcement it looks like they are implementing this change so they can make loot exciting... But this is not something that can be done with a promise of improvement later on.
I keep saying in other venues that this is a textbook example of how not to deliver bad news. The loot is so bad people are convinced an obvious error must have been intended...and they are taking that feature away with a promise that they will work to make things better? You don't take stuff away and say trust us we're going to make it up to you without some sort of assurance.
I can't find the news announcement regarding changing chest loot to BoP but that was the way news like this is supposed to be delivered. They said, real quietly, toys were being taken away in a couple of sentences...and then screamed about all the good features that would make up for any added frustration and how it would benefit people in the long run for like 100 lines of text.
This post...this is telling people something that will upset them as if it is the best news they'll hear all week and not even being courteous enough to elaborate on how they believe the change is going to be beneficial to people beyond screaming trust us and smiling from ear to ear. Not good.
man, that is insane!, those keys alone would take 15-20 slots in our bags.
my suggession, overhaul the keys, and convert keys. example, VIP keys should move to "Master Keys" for boss chests.
then all those Mal, Val, other zone-like specific keys convert to "Legendary Dragon Key" as universal epic key, to eliminate cluttered stacks of keys. these keys should open "Dragon Chests" in end of dungeon rooms beside end-game boss chests. those specific zone keys need rework format to use specific resources and use one or two professions get some new love for making/crafting keys, Leadership and Artifacters since they use "Maps and crafted items"
right now, leadership seem almost dead except for producing refine stones and vouchers.
chests and profession nodes really need updates, since they got nerfed. my opinion about those nodes shouldnt be in easy reachable open zones, they belong in epic dungeons and solo-mode dungeons.
epic dungeon version should be lot better than those in solo-mode dungeons with more resources, less ways to abuse, and non-boss chests shouldnt have trash resources, just mostly cash, random rank 7 gemstones, blue tier gems, and some chances of vouchers.
and what we want for epic chests in boss rooms, NO JUNKS! chances of extra seals, random epic gems, chance of Greater/Superior marks of potency, random non-shard gems and random rank 7-9 gems, chances of artifacts, gears, and add a special universal refine stone. we dont need any armor/weapon shard gems in boss chests, because those are buyable with seals. we want the gears that are bind by equip, tradeables or exchange with guildmates who need specific or correct class to use. also, a special token to collect as currency so we can buy right types of armor we need, like a super seal version.
No Cheapass junks please! cheap junks are common and those are found on corpse drops except epic boss's drop.
i hope this advice help give devs better idea for chest loot format, they really need overhaul. if the players are happy, they may spend if they want.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Its the same team who think the amount of vblood and relic hunting is appropriate.
IF that same team is going to put a package together of loot and what is acceptable.. just contemplate that for awhile.
So here is what happened before. All you unbelievers beware the mighty sword of logic.
We were able to buy 50 character slots and run LS on every one of them. Many ppl did it. There were guides, how to do it most effective and CMs gave tips about it. It was an EXPLOIT, bc they said so.
LM set procced on every dot, HRs soloed LM himself with a few bleeds. It was a bug and got fixed. Now the set proced on every critical hit, for a few years. That was a bug, too, bc they said so.
You can claim your winter festival reward on every toon. If you claim it on more then 20 toons you are an exploiter and you get banned. Happened to me, true story. They revised that and unbanned us. I said, that they should use better scripts, if they are to lazy, to ban us on their own. They said 'every ban was handled by a moderator'. So it was an exploit, then not, bc they said so.
Some skills or feats dont have the effect described in the tooltip. It is either a bug and gets fixed, sometimes two years later or it was ok and the tooltip gets revised, to better describe the real effect. Guess what is the difference between bug and misleading tooltip, they tell you if it was a bug or a misleading tooltip.
We were able to decline boxes from day one. Now it is a bug. You dont believe it? HERETICs THEY SAID SO.
We live in a 'post factual world', where reality can be ignored. I think Frau Merkel or one of her writers is a big fan of crypitc.
I have played DDO and in that game, it not only allows the player to see the loot in the chest, but you have the option to reroll the loot. This move you have purposed, "in my opinion" is a step backwards not a step forward. You would have been further ahead, both financially and community friendly, to have placed a paid option for loot reroll instead of taking away from the player. This paid option allows the player to reroll the loot offered instead of running the dungeon over again. That is pretty simple in my opinion, makes the company some cash and keeps the players happy. Peekers have to rerun the dungeon and whales can spin the wheel of fortune!
I really do feel for you guys, as I expressed my true point of view back on page 14 I hope things will improve.
Really good idea!
Thanks, but not my idea originally. As you can see in this image, the chest has a loot or paid re-roll option. The astral shards are used for this feature in DDO. I am not saying this is a better game just this element has merit.
With so many D&D games and games like D&D available to players for little or no cost, it makes one wonder why Cryptic would remove something they have ignored for so long?
+1, i'm coming around to this idea, so many +'s on both sides of the line (provide rerolls don't cost an arm and a leg). This could be a good bridge to making proper adjustments to the the rewards and RnG of the game....
In my mind this is how the opening post should have read:
There is a feature in the Neverwinter game whereby players can open a bonus chest at the end of certain dungeons through use of special items named:
Keys are currently acquired by purchasing them from the Zen Market, completing certain campaign tasks, or obtaining them from certain non-player characters. Each key can be used to open and claim the rewards from one chest.
In the Sea of Moving Ice update releasing on the live server on November 8th, there will be a change happening to how these keys work.
There is currently a feature on the live server whereby a player may view the rewards without using a key. This feature going to be adjusted for the following dungeon's: eLoL, eToS, PoM, and EDEMO. We will be making it so that you can re-roll for better loot at 20 (some arbitrary low number) zen per re-roll. This will be live for 1 week(or some other arbitrary time value) and will be evaluated during this time so improvements and adjustments can be made before it becomes a permanent feature of the game. Please provide your feed back on the forums.
We are pleased and excited about this new feature and it will help the Neverwinter design team analyze and adjust rewards for chests going forward now that the bug has been fixed.
This is what I would have liked to read...ohh to dream...
Its the same team who think the amount of vblood and relic hunting is appropriate.
IF that same team is going to put a package together of loot and what is acceptable.. just contemplate that for awhile.
This is why I really don't buy the bug excuse. They don't design drop tables while completely ignoring chest mechanics. Drop tables have horrible odds because they know that players don't have to consume a key every time they get a terrible roll. If this really was a bug and they continued to design drop tables around it for years it's a feature at that point whether they want to admit it or not.
The thing I find really funny is that the management at Cryptic allow and expect this whole situation to be handled by volunteer moderators while THEY hide behind them.
I had a manager like that once. A customer would want to complain about something and he would go hide behind regular staff instead of dealing with it. He was perfectly happy to see/talk to them if it was positive but he was a real coward when it came to the hard stuff. Naturally he had zero respect from customers and staff alike. He ended up quitting and we were all better off for it.
I've played MMO's for a couple of decades and I've seen shining examples of how it should be done. Cryptic come off like a bunch of amateurs time after time, which is a shame as the product (at its core) is really good.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Comments
3 of my favourite posts since thread 28.
Zeb, i knew you since Asheron's Call, we rarely talk, i knew there was old post back in jan of 2015, but now i am really concern being labled as Exploiter because i am not aware that was "Bug", and dont like it, it seem it is an insult.
you already know it isnt players' fault that not knowing did exploited the chest options.
it is really those Devs' Fault for allowing for so long since pre-mod 3, we do want a real Formal Apologies from devs and those guys in producing team, and head director for allowing too long and calling us exploiters, it is they who created this problems, not us, we didnt make contents! we didnt design this.
i am sure guys at Hasbro would gotten exploded posts in thier forum site about Neverwinter is being mishandled and mismanaged, possible of about abuse of liscense contract, hearing about having EULA being broken countless times, they would revoke contract if violated.
IF you are going on with this change THEN implement this:
Higher value(Epic no less)/BoE high end gear drops to ALL Epic content
1st chest should reward us with Epics
2nd chest should reward us with Epics and a chance to gain something really valuable.
Remove green and blue gear drops from Epic dungeons and grant us more RP in the chests
Make a tooltip to show the loot-table on the chest and drop rates.
While your at it, change the HAMSTER tooltips that state utter HAMSTER like "A chance to hit..." what chance?
how many %s is the chance.
Tell us how the loot-tables will change so we can give feedback on them.
Launch these changes ON THE SAME DAY but only AFTER we have given you FEEDBACK of the loots.
Theres some ideas.
Stop being spoiled little children and acting like you are ENTITLED to a free and easy game to play.
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
Had they done this in the first place - the rage this change is generating would have been exponentially smaller. In compensation, we'll allow you to pay us 15% less zen to be screwed is NOT compensation. If you're going to fix bugs remove features that everyone (even the moderators who explicitly knew it was an exploit when no one else in the game did and STILL recommended players use it) considers a valuable and important QoL item then have the common sense to fix the other massive problem: the loot. Do those AT THE SAME TIME.
So, the recommendation:
Don't make this change now. Fix the loot tables in the chests AND change the key behavior, put those changes out on Preview at the same time (along with a vendor that gives free keys.........) and let us test and provide feedback. Don't try to spoon feed us HAMSTER like this and expect to keep your customers.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
And I also agree 100% with the following.
So it´s important to:
a. gain back trust and mutual respect by addressing and clearing up the insult and then
b. have a discussion about rewards especially with regards to mod 10b; the way they intend to do this isn´t gonna fly...(for me and apparently a lot of others and there´s still time yet not to go ahead with this)
To much stuff hidden behind RnG please go beyond considering some the changes folks in this post have recommended, get onboard......
Here again is the reason people decline loot, just in case some forgot :-O
As much as I enjoy forum drama. I really, really, do. These are good solutions and shouldn't be lost in all the madness. Although I am taking screen shots, for future chuckles, or just in case.
But this is not something that can be done with a promise of improvement later on.
I keep saying in other venues that this is a textbook example of how not to deliver bad news. The loot is so bad people are convinced an obvious error must have been intended...and they are taking that feature away with a promise that they will work to make things better? You don't take stuff away and say trust us we're going to make it up to you without some sort of assurance.
I can't find the news announcement regarding changing chest loot to BoP but that was the way news like this is supposed to be delivered. They said, real quietly, toys were being taken away in a couple of sentences...and then screamed about all the good features that would make up for any added frustration and how it would benefit people in the long run for like 100 lines of text.
This post...this is telling people something that will upset them as if it is the best news they'll hear all week and not even being courteous enough to elaborate on how they believe the change is going to be beneficial to people beyond screaming trust us and smiling from ear to ear. Not good.
man, that is insane!, those keys alone would take 15-20 slots in our bags.
my suggession, overhaul the keys, and convert keys.
example, VIP keys should move to "Master Keys" for boss chests.
then all those Mal, Val, other zone-like specific keys convert to "Legendary Dragon Key" as universal epic key, to eliminate cluttered stacks of keys. these keys should open "Dragon Chests" in end of dungeon rooms beside end-game boss chests.
those specific zone keys need rework format to use specific resources and use one or two professions get some new love for making/crafting keys, Leadership and Artifacters since they use "Maps and crafted items"
right now, leadership seem almost dead except for producing refine stones and vouchers.
chests and profession nodes really need updates, since they got nerfed.
my opinion about those nodes shouldnt be in easy reachable open zones, they belong in epic dungeons and solo-mode dungeons.
epic dungeon version should be lot better than those in solo-mode dungeons with more resources, less ways to abuse, and non-boss chests shouldnt have trash resources, just mostly cash, random rank 7 gemstones, blue tier gems, and some chances of vouchers.
and what we want for epic chests in boss rooms, NO JUNKS!
chances of extra seals, random epic gems, chance of Greater/Superior marks of potency, random non-shard gems and random rank 7-9 gems, chances of artifacts, gears, and add a special universal refine stone.
we dont need any armor/weapon shard gems in boss chests, because those are buyable with seals.
we want the gears that are bind by equip, tradeables or exchange with guildmates who need specific or correct class to use.
also, a special token to collect as currency so we can buy right types of armor we need, like a super seal version.
No Cheapass junks please! cheap junks are common and those are found on corpse drops except epic boss's drop.
i hope this advice help give devs better idea for chest loot format, they really need overhaul.
if the players are happy, they may spend if they want.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=4xmckWVPRaI&start=00:52&end=04:31
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
IF that same team is going to put a package together of loot and what is acceptable.. just contemplate that for awhile.
We were able to buy 50 character slots and run LS on every one of them. Many ppl did it. There were guides, how to do it most effective and CMs gave tips about it. It was an EXPLOIT, bc they said so.
LM set procced on every dot, HRs soloed LM himself with a few bleeds. It was a bug and got fixed. Now the set proced on every critical hit, for a few years. That was a bug, too, bc they said so.
You can claim your winter festival reward on every toon. If you claim it on more then 20 toons you are an exploiter and you get banned. Happened to me, true story. They revised that and unbanned us. I said, that they should use better scripts, if they are to lazy, to ban us on their own. They said 'every ban was handled by a moderator'. So it was an exploit, then not, bc they said so.
Some skills or feats dont have the effect described in the tooltip. It is either a bug and gets fixed, sometimes two years later or it was ok and the tooltip gets revised, to better describe the real effect. Guess what is the difference between bug and misleading tooltip, they tell you if it was a bug or a misleading tooltip.
We were able to decline boxes from day one. Now it is a bug. You dont believe it? HERETICs THEY SAID SO.
We live in a 'post factual world', where reality can be ignored. I think Frau Merkel or one of her writers is a big fan of crypitc.
In my mind this is how the opening post should have read:
There is a feature in the Neverwinter game whereby players can open a bonus chest at the end of certain dungeons through use of special items named:
Legendary Dragon Key
Daily Dungeon Chest Key
Epic Dungeon Chest Key
Standard Dungeon Chest Key
Mystic Dragon Key
Arcane Dragon Key
Dragon Queen’s Key
Lesser Demonic Key
Greater Demonic Key
Malabog’s Castle Key
Valindra’s Tower Key
Kessell’s Retreat Key
Ancient Runic Key
Dark Fey Key
Thayan Chest Key
Thayan Lair Key
Keys are currently acquired by purchasing them from the Zen Market, completing certain campaign tasks, or obtaining them from certain non-player characters. Each key can be used to open and claim the rewards from one chest.
In the Sea of Moving Ice update releasing on the live server on November 8th, there will be a change happening to how these keys work.
There is currently a feature on the live server whereby a player may view the rewards without using a key. This feature going to be adjusted for the following dungeon's: eLoL, eToS, PoM, and EDEMO. We will be making it so that you can re-roll for better loot at 20 (some arbitrary low number) zen per re-roll. This will be live for 1 week(or some other arbitrary time value) and will be evaluated during this time so improvements and adjustments can be made before it becomes a permanent feature of the game. Please provide your feed back on the forums.
We are pleased and excited about this new feature and it will help the Neverwinter design team analyze and adjust rewards for chests going forward now that the bug has been fixed.
This is what I would have liked to read...ohh to dream...
I had a manager like that once. A customer would want to complain about something and he would go hide behind regular staff instead of dealing with it. He was perfectly happy to see/talk to them if it was positive but he was a real coward when it came to the hard stuff. Naturally he had zero respect from customers and staff alike. He ended up quitting and we were all better off for it.
I've played MMO's for a couple of decades and I've seen shining examples of how it should be done. Cryptic come off like a bunch of amateurs time after time, which is a shame as the product (at its core) is really good.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox