So, why would you decline if it is going to take your key anyway? It is not a bug. Nobody is dumb enough to lose a key like that. Even if it is junk, you will take it.
As I said, the decline button was there for those who didn't want the loot. It is was also left over from pre-Mod 3 changes. Believe it or not, there are people who will simply not take the loot from chests because they just don't want the hassle of dealing with what they deem "junk." I've known several people like this. I'm the opposite, I'll loot everything I can. But hey, believe what you will. Call what you cannot believe a lie, that's you're choice but at least you know the truth.
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.
So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!
There is no way that someone would decline the loot if the key was going to be used anyways. This 'logic' doesn't work and only makes the company look even more incompetent to try and explain it that way.
I have spent quite a bit of cash on this game and I am done with it. A Dungeons & Dragons game deserves a better fate than a blatant cash grab and slap to the face of it's loyal customers. I would love for someone to explain what Cryptic has actually GIVEN us lately, because you sure as hell have TAKEN much, much more from us then we deserve.
For shame!!! Speak with your wallets people. It's the only thing they actually listen to.
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.
So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!
I'm not sure if this is what you intend, but this admission actually kind of makes the whole situation worse.
The community moderators KNEW that a common bug existed, but intentionally did not explain to the community that it was a bug. Instead, you let the community believe that it was intentional to prevent a crusade of naming and shaming? And now that the bug is being fixed you yell out "no really, it was a bug all along we just didn't tell you!" No offense, but that's starting to sound kind of crazy.
Also, it's pretty clear that @kreatyve and @ironzerg79 disagree with your assessment that this has always been considered a bug. They have quotes in this thread amounting to that. So was this a secret that only you kept?
Please elaborate so that the community has the appropriate context. Thanks!
Oh, I made it very clear that the communication was very poor. Honestly, it's what has me most upset. The change itself is upsetting, but not nearly as bad, to me, as accusing the majority of the player base of exploiting - again!
What? A +1 Ring AND Abyssal Residuum? Why on earth would anyone decline such a trove of magnificent treasures!?! /s
At least it was an Aquamarine instead of a Peridot!
Also...... full disclosure, as it happens I picked up a +4 Rising Deflect ring on that throne run too. Just goes to show, when this change goes into effect: 1: People that haven't quit in disgust will probably hold onto their keys in hopes the eventual "rework" will make it worth it. 2: Meaning very few people will bother opening the chests at all. 3: Sales of Legendary Rings will plummet because... seriously... why buy them if that load of garbage is all you're going to get anyway.
I predict further increases in backlogs as people decide to not support Cryptic's deceitful business practices. That is to say, I sure HOPE people open their eyes and withhold their money because a company willing to blatantly, openly, and so obviously lie to its customers doesn't deserve your money. It's like McDonald's trying to tell you they sell healthy food or Coal-fire power plant operators trying to say coal smoke is GOOD for the environment... It's really, truly, outrageous that they'd just... LIE like that. They should be ashamed of themselves. @mimicking#6533 - YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF for presiding over this... this... I don't even know what to call this HAMSTER show. Circus? Fiasco? Disaster? Take your pick.
Hey @kvet, wasn't this announcement made on your birthday? if so, what a HAMSTER present from Cryptic. Haven't seen you online since, keep missing you so belated happy birthday from me!
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.
So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!
Forgive me if i didn't understanding it well, my engrish is poor...
but are you really telling us that you designed a reward system where people open a chest, consuming a key, and give them the opportunity to refuse the reward and get back some profit, while they key is consummed anyway ?
So you designed a game for dumb people who will refuse to gain something, even if it's crappy, where they spend a key that cost them something, even just their playing time... that it ? you designed the game like the dude will say, >well my key cost 10bucks, my chest is HAMSTER and i will get back only 5bucks... ok, let's drop it, gain 0bucks and just have my 10bucks spent as loss, i'am so genius...<
If yes, so i believe you, you didn't lie at all, you just tell the truth, you just take your player and customer for stupid people since the DAY 1 since you designed a game for dumb..
@jumpingmorks its not a cash grab for older content, its one for new content.. raid will require many, many, many keys. They looked at that , decided .. heck we could make a ton of money and decided to pull the trigger.
Its blatant to me, I dont see how you are missing that?
I'm not seeing it because I have no plans to do it. The grind is so awful that it cannot be done reasonably on more than 1 character, if my ALTs can make do without am pretty sure my BiS main can make do without. Devs posted recently (in the pre mod 6 sets they are deactivating) that all gear has a life expectancy of a few months to a year at the most, I'll just sit this HAMSTER out.
It's not a cash grab, if it was they'd move all artifact drops to the right chest, good luck getting your Lostmauth artifact for less than 20m AD if that happened. Why they addressed this issue (it was hinted at when the second chest in Lagmouth made it's appearance) now rather than the I dunno how many issues they could have fixed, l
Just in case, you don't understand. In Lostmauth, there are 2 chests: one is opened by Epic Dungeon key (people who has VIP has tons of those) and one is opened by a special key (that you can buy from Zen or make your own). So, you usually can at least open one chest in the end of LoL. If you have the special key for the 2nd chest, you can peek and decide if you want to "waste" that special key.
In the new content, there will be 3 chests. All 3 chests can only be opened by the special key. You need 3 special key to open them. You cannot use Epic dungeon key. If you have enough resource to craft 3 keys everyday (this is a big if), you can run that dungeon once per day. The 2nd times you run it, you will not get any loot. Or, you can use Zen to buy that 3 keys. If you can peek, at least, you don't need to waste the Zen key for junk.
My point did not cover the how's of new content, my point was purely made if the Lostmauth Artificat was moved from the drop in left chest and possible drop from Lagmouth himself to only drop in right chest.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.
So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!
I'm not sure if this is what you intend, but this admission actually kind of makes the whole situation worse.
The community moderators KNEW that a common bug existed, but intentionally did not explain to the community that it was a bug. Instead, you let the community believe that it was intentional to prevent a crusade of naming and shaming? And now that the bug is being fixed you yell out "no really, it was a bug all along we just didn't tell you!" No offense, but that's starting to sound kind of crazy.
Also, it's pretty clear that @kreatyve and @ironzerg79 disagree with your assessment that this has always been considered a bug. They have quotes in this thread amounting to that. So was this a secret that only you kept?
Please elaborate so that the community has the appropriate context. Thanks!
@kreatyve and @ironzerg79 were not a part of the moderation team at that time and were not privy to this until recently. The only reason it came to light in the moderation team is that Ambi and I were recollecting the past. There are many bugs in the game, we don't talk about them all and this was one of them that was deemed a bug that didn't need to be made public knowledge because the way the Community was pitting against each other, labeling each other as exploiters for not taking the loot. Even if it was made known back in Mod 3 that this was indeed a bug, would our stance on it being fixed now change? No, I don't think so. I just find it silly people are using the excuse that "this is a lie" as feedback. It was not a lie, it was just a very poorly mishandled bug.
Again, as for why there is a decline button... As I said, some folks don't take loot they don't like. Believe it or not, there are people like that. Furthermore, the decline button had always been there from the pre-Key days. So, ask yourself, if you cannot believe people wouldn't take the loot, why on earth would there be a decline button when keys didn't exist? Because, for whatever reason (inventory management, didn't like the loot, etc), people did not always accept the loot in chests.
First of, I am not in favor of this change but I am also not affected by it. I rarely do not take the loot from my chests anyway. There's been less times than the fingers I have on my hands that I have ever declined the rewards from a chest. Was it nice to save the key? Heck yeah. Loot in chests, for lack of a better way to describe it, just plain sucks gibberling toes. If loot was actually worth the key, then there'd really be no problem. As it is now, the loot in chests are rarely worth the key used on them, even the free keys...
This has been a constant theme throughout this thread, unfortunately the devs in their wisdom disagree. They seem to be of the mind that a Legendary key is worth a +1 ring.
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on just after Module 3 that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.
So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!
More lies. I'm never giving another dime to this company. The end.
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on just after Module 3 that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.
So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!
When Lostmauth was released there were rumours that they would fix the ability of people to peek into chests, it doesn't change the fact that the chest contents are usually worthless and as such are not worth wasting a Legendary key on a pitifully low chance that it might have something nice.
I'm here to play D&D not roulette.
I'm not disagreeing with you as you have said much the same thing, but I want to clarify any arguments made on the basis of semantics.
Sure, i believe it hard... i'am even sure those people represent the majority of the community, Just look around, there is 30 page of their post here...
Just remove Winter Online from the NWO name and you will know when i will play again at this game
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on just after Module 3 that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.
So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!
More lies. I'm never giving another dime to this company. The end.
Zebular has no reason to lie, he's not defending the company just saying how it is, just because you don;t like what he has to say doesn;t mean you have a right to single him out.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Sure, i believe it hard... i'am even sure those people represent the majority of the community, Just look around, there is 30 page of their post here...
Just remove Winter Online from the NWO name and you will know when i will play again at this game
Harp on one aspect yet dismiss the fact that the decline button existed before keys existed. So, pray-tell, why would there be a decline button when keys didn't even exist? What reason can you fathom?
Also, it's pretty clear that @kreatyve and @ironzerg79 disagree with your assessment that this has always been considered a bug. They have quotes in this thread amounting to that. So was this a secret that only you kept?
Please elaborate so that the community has the appropriate context. Thanks!
There is a difference between not liking the change, not liking the way it is worded and not believing it was a bug.
We all think the announcement was VERY poorly worded. It does imply that everybody should have known it was a bug and that people were abusing it and should feel bad. That is not the case.
As players have said...logically in an MMO if you use a CONSUMABLE key to open a lock (chest) then the key should be CONSUMED when OPENING the lock whether you want the gear or not. We have had people report it to us because they felt like it was a bug and an exploit. Note this is what happens when you open a profession node...
That said, let me try to word what Zeb said in a diifferent way because I can understand the confusion. There are basically 3 levels of exploitive bugs. "Fix ASAP and issue repercussions for abuse,""fix ASAP but without repercussions" and "unintended, not condoned but in no rush to fix."
This bug was an unintended mechanic. That is the word that should have been used in the announcement. Another example of an unintended mechanic was Boss Leashing which existed from BETA to at least Mod 1 if not Mod 2. Basically you could pull the boss out of the room and avoid adds when the game was first launched. It was absolutely not intended or condoned but the developers did not penalize anybody who did it or rush to fix it.
This was a bug but they did not feel it important enough to prioritize a fix. As it is not condoned we did not and would not tell people "enjoy it while you can."
EDIT - I wish I knew why quotations sometimes decide to disappear. >.<
cromejohnsenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 207Arc User
lie or not why werent we informed earlier ? why didnt they fix it sooner ? why did they fix this "bug" now before they introduce an insane new amount of chests which need either endless grind to be opened or money in cryptics pockets?
Oh, I made it very clear that the communication was very poor. Honestly, it's what has me most upset. The change itself is upsetting, but not nearly as bad, to me, as accusing the majority of the player base of exploiting - again!
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.
So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!
I'm not sure if this is what you intend, but this admission actually kind of makes the whole situation worse.
The community moderators KNEW that a common bug existed, but intentionally did not explain to the community that it was a bug. Instead, you let the community believe that it was intentional to prevent a crusade of naming and shaming? And now that the bug is being fixed you yell out "no really, it was a bug all along we just didn't tell you!" No offense, but that's starting to sound kind of crazy.
Also, it's pretty clear that @kreatyve and @ironzerg79 disagree with your assessment that this has always been considered a bug. They have quotes in this thread amounting to that. So was this a secret that only you kept?
Please elaborate so that the community has the appropriate context. Thanks!
@kreatyve and @ironzerg79 were not a part of the moderation team at that time and were not privy to this until recently. The only reason it came to light in the moderation team is that Ambi and I were recollecting the past. There are many bugs in the game, we don't talk about them all and this was one of them that was deemed a bug that didn't need to be made public knowledge because the way the Community was pitting against each other, labeling each other as exploiters for not taking the loot. Even if it was made known back in Mod 3 that this was indeed a bug, would our stance on it being fixed now change? No, I don't think so. I just find it silly people are using the excuse that "this is a lie" as feedback. It was not a lie, it was just a very poorly mishandled bug.
Again, as for why there is a decline button... As I said, some folks don't take loot they don't like. Believe it or not, there are people like that. Furthermore, the decline button had always been there from the pre-Key days. So, ask yourself, if you cannot believe people wouldn't take the loot, why on earth would there be a decline button when keys didn't exist? Because, for whatever reason (inventory management, didn't like the loot, etc), people did not always accept the loot in chests.
I'm kind of at my wit's end. Do you realize that you are describing a bug that you deliberately hid from the community and the rest of the moderation teamfor years. And now you are chastising the community for being upset that all of a sudden this is publicly labeled a bug? You are saying we are being ridiculous for labeling the bug explanation as a falsehood.
The actions of the developers, moderators, and even live-streams all worked in concert to indicate to the community this was not a bug. You actively decided not to bring it to light and call it out.
The reality is, through their actions the devs "lied" for all this time or you are "lying" now. Maybe that word "lying" is the problem. Let's say "irresponsibly manipulative and duplicitous".
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.
So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!
Forgive me if i didn't understanding it well, my engrish is poor...
but are you really telling us that you designed a reward system where people open a chest, consuming a key, and give them the opportunity to refuse the reward and get back some profit, while they key is consummed anyway ?
So you designed a game for dumb people who will refuse to gain something, even if it's crappy, where they spend a key that cost them something, even just their playing time... that it ? you designed the game like the dude will say, >well my key cost 10bucks, my chest is HAMSTER and i will get back only 5bucks... ok, let's drop it, gain 0bucks and just have my 10bucks spent as loss, i'am so genius...<
If yes, so i believe you, you didn't lie at all, you just tell the truth, you just take your player and customer for stupid people since the DAY 1 since you designed a game for dumb..
again, sorry for bad engrish
No, he's saying the decline button was there from a time when you didn't need a key to loot the chests.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on just after Module 3 that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.
So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!
Just wow Zeb... wow. I'm not sure it was the smartest thing to admit to. I'm beginning to wonder about your credibility at least. After all, you've been here the longest...
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
So my guess is that back when this was a raging topic of whether it was a bug, exploit, or whatever they deemed not to "fix" it because they couldn't afford to tick off most of the player base...it was still too fragile a player base. So they kept quiet and left it in. Now with new content that I am only going to guess is once again mostly useless junk x 3 that its time to "fix" it. And it probably won't upset the ps4 and xbox crowd that much...although can someone confirm that this is the same on those platforms? Would have made sense for them to "fix" those from the beginning
Harp on one aspect yet dismiss the fact that the decline button existed before keys existed. So, pray-tell, why would there be a decline button when keys didn't even exist? What reason can you fathom?
I'am not a old player, but i play this game more than 6 month actually, if you saying to me that you didn't "fix" this bug since all that time and didn't even had any emergency action like disable the chest or whatever...
I'am sure you smart enough to know what i will tell you
first letter is a Q, , last one a G and you found UITIN beteween
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on just after Module 3 that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.
So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!
So you say !! other moderators have the same opinios a i have and have already expressed in the previous pages (look a my post in page 29 is read all of them is much of a issue to you) Till now in 30 pages only 2 times this thing was called a bug . in the original post and this time from you...
You maybe think that losing virtual keys would more significant than be called dumb but is not my case, IF that is an official statement from developers place it here or any place we can read, i can assure you that would be my last time reading anything on this game...
PS sorry for the bad english, i'm brazilian and is pretty hard to think in another language when my mood in this state...
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
lie or not why werent we informed earlier ? why didnt they fix it sooner ? why did they fix this "bug" now before they introduce an insane new amount of chests which need either endless grind to be opened or money in cryptics pockets?
I believe you've answered your own question.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Oh, I made it very clear that the communication was very poor. Honestly, it's what has me most upset. The change itself is upsetting, but not nearly as bad, to me, as accusing the majority of the player base of exploiting - again!
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.
So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!
I'm not sure if this is what you intend, but this admission actually kind of makes the whole situation worse.
The community moderators KNEW that a common bug existed, but intentionally did not explain to the community that it was a bug. Instead, you let the community believe that it was intentional to prevent a crusade of naming and shaming? And now that the bug is being fixed you yell out "no really, it was a bug all along we just didn't tell you!" No offense, but that's starting to sound kind of crazy.
Also, it's pretty clear that @kreatyve and @ironzerg79 disagree with your assessment that this has always been considered a bug. They have quotes in this thread amounting to that. So was this a secret that only you kept?
Please elaborate so that the community has the appropriate context. Thanks!
@kreatyve and @ironzerg79 were not a part of the moderation team at that time and were not privy to this until recently. The only reason it came to light in the moderation team is that Ambi and I were recollecting the past. There are many bugs in the game, we don't talk about them all and this was one of them that was deemed a bug that didn't need to be made public knowledge because the way the Community was pitting against each other, labeling each other as exploiters for not taking the loot. Even if it was made known back in Mod 3 that this was indeed a bug, would our stance on it being fixed now change? No, I don't think so. I just find it silly people are using the excuse that "this is a lie" as feedback. It was not a lie, it was just a very poorly mishandled bug.
Again, as for why there is a decline button... As I said, some folks don't take loot they don't like. Believe it or not, there are people like that. Furthermore, the decline button had always been there from the pre-Key days. So, ask yourself, if you cannot believe people wouldn't take the loot, why on earth would there be a decline button when keys didn't exist? Because, for whatever reason (inventory management, didn't like the loot, etc), people did not always accept the loot in chests.
I'm kind of at my wit's end. Do you realize that you are describing a bug that you deliberately hid from the community and the rest of the moderation teamfor years. And now you are chastising the community for being upset that all of a sudden this is publicly labeled a bug? You are saying we are being ridiculous for labeling the bug explanation as a falsehood.
The actions of the developers, moderators, and even live-streams all worked in concert to indicate to the community this was not a bug. You actively decided not to bring it to light and call it out.
The reality is, through their actions the devs "lied" for all this time or you are "lying" now. Maybe that word "lying" is the problem. Let's say "irresponsibly manipulative and duplicitous".
No, you're putting words into my mouth. What I find astonishing is how folks outright call them liars when they don't even know the truth and that is why I decided to try and clear that up. Yet now, I am seemingly the target for speaking the truth, which is fine. I just find it astonishing again that at first, folks claim "lie" and then when the truth explained, it is like-wise ridiculed. Shar'd if you do, Shar'd if you don't.
Also, it's pretty clear that @kreatyve and @ironzerg79 disagree with your assessment that this has always been considered a bug. They have quotes in this thread amounting to that. So was this a secret that only you kept?
If it was a known bug, it was before my time as a moderator.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
Now, on to the those claiming that the "this is a bug" is a lie. It is not. The Moderators were told early on just after Module 3 that being able to open a chest and not take the contents but keep your key was indeed a bug. That the decline button was there for those who did not want the loot, not for those who did not want to consume their key. However, as this wasn't something of a real issue and there was a clique of people claiming it was an exploit to look and not take, it was deemed best to remain silent on the issue, lest we fuel a group of player's crusade to name and shame folks for "exploiting." In short, years ago, it was indeed deemed a bug but was not pursued as an exploit.
So, can we now please move on from this whole claim that they are lieing about it being a bug? Such does nothing to add to productive feedback. Thanks!
Just wow Zeb... wow. I'm not sure it was the smartest thing to admit to. I'm beginning to wonder about your credibility at least. After all, you've been here the longest...
I still haven't seen a dev post in 30 pages and 2 days. I vaguely remember this argument back when I joined in mod 3 and when Lostmauth was released. Like they say, don't shoot the messenger, especially since the unpaid work are the only ones trying to clarify the situation.
As for devs labelling the community exploiters, there are just no words for that kind of idiocy in my personal opinion.
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[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I have spent quite a bit of cash on this game and I am done with it. A Dungeons & Dragons game deserves a better fate than a blatant cash grab and slap to the face of it's loyal customers. I would love for someone to explain what Cryptic has actually GIVEN us lately, because you sure as hell have TAKEN much, much more from us then we deserve.
For shame!!! Speak with your wallets people. It's the only thing they actually listen to.
The community moderators KNEW that a common bug existed, but intentionally did not explain to the community that it was a bug. Instead, you let the community believe that it was intentional to prevent a crusade of naming and shaming? And now that the bug is being fixed you yell out "no really, it was a bug all along we just didn't tell you!" No offense, but that's starting to sound kind of crazy.
Also, it's pretty clear that @kreatyve and @ironzerg79 disagree with your assessment that this has always been considered a bug. They have quotes in this thread amounting to that. So was this a secret that only you kept?
Please elaborate so that the community has the appropriate context. Thanks!
Edit: There are others as well.
Sure sounds to me like nobody else knew that this was a bug...
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Forgive me if i didn't understanding it well, my engrish is poor...
but are you really telling us that you designed a reward system where people open a chest, consuming a key, and give them the opportunity to refuse the reward and get back some profit, while they key is consummed anyway ?
So you designed a game for dumb people who will refuse to gain something, even if it's crappy, where they spend a key that cost them something, even just their playing time... that it ? you designed the game like the dude will say, >well my key cost 10bucks, my chest is HAMSTER and i will get back only 5bucks... ok, let's drop it, gain 0bucks and just have my 10bucks spent as loss, i'am so genius...<
If yes, so i believe you, you didn't lie at all, you just tell the truth, you just take your player and customer for stupid people since the DAY 1 since you designed a game for dumb..
again, sorry for bad engrish
Again, as for why there is a decline button... As I said, some folks don't take loot they don't like. Believe it or not, there are people like that. Furthermore, the decline button had always been there from the pre-Key days. So, ask yourself, if you cannot believe people wouldn't take the loot, why on earth would there be a decline button when keys didn't exist? Because, for whatever reason (inventory management, didn't like the loot, etc), people did not always accept the loot in chests.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I'm here to play D&D not roulette.
I'm not disagreeing with you as you have said much the same thing, but I want to clarify any arguments made on the basis of semantics.
Just remove Winter Online from the NWO name and you will know when i will play again at this game
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
We all think the announcement was VERY poorly worded. It does imply that everybody should have known it was a bug and that people were abusing it and should feel bad. That is not the case.
As players have said...logically in an MMO if you use a CONSUMABLE key to open a lock (chest) then the key should be CONSUMED when OPENING the lock whether you want the gear or not. We have had people report it to us because they felt like it was a bug and an exploit.
Note this is what happens when you open a profession node...
That said, let me try to word what Zeb said in a diifferent way because I can understand the confusion.
There are basically 3 levels of exploitive bugs. "Fix ASAP and issue repercussions for abuse," "fix ASAP but without repercussions" and "unintended, not condoned but in no rush to fix."
This bug was an unintended mechanic. That is the word that should have been used in the announcement.
Another example of an unintended mechanic was Boss Leashing which existed from BETA to at least Mod 1 if not Mod 2. Basically you could pull the boss out of the room and avoid adds when the game was first launched. It was absolutely not intended or condoned but the developers did not penalize anybody who did it or rush to fix it.
This was a bug but they did not feel it important enough to prioritize a fix. As it is not condoned we did not and would not tell people "enjoy it while you can."
EDIT - I wish I knew why quotations sometimes decide to disappear. >.<
The actions of the developers, moderators, and even live-streams all worked in concert to indicate to the community this was not a bug. You actively decided not to bring it to light and call it out.
The reality is, through their actions the devs "lied" for all this time or you are "lying" now. Maybe that word "lying" is the problem. Let's say "irresponsibly manipulative and duplicitous".
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I'am sure you smart enough to know what i will tell you
first letter is a Q, , last one a G and you found UITIN beteween
other moderators have the same opinios a i have and have already expressed in the previous pages (look a my post in page 29 is read all of them is much of a issue to you) Till now in 30 pages only 2 times this thing was called a bug . in the original post and this time from you...
You maybe think that losing virtual keys would more significant than be called dumb but is not my case, IF that is an official statement from developers place it here or any place we can read, i can assure you that would be my last time reading anything on this game...
PS sorry for the bad english, i'm brazilian and is pretty hard to think in another language when my mood in this state...
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
If it was a known bug, it was before my time as a moderator.
As for devs labelling the community exploiters, there are just no words for that kind of idiocy in my personal opinion.