You got the loyal gear from the epic grade sca dungeon. Yeah forget about the enchants rank 5s, last I looked the loyal gear price skyrocketed. Even pieces that use to cost around 700 ads now are going for 30k last I looked. And the loyal avenger ring last I saw was really high. I know some players have been moving over to other sets of gear for their companions, but the great thing about the loyal gear was any lvl could us it.
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1. You said "generally", not "in this case", "regarding MMos" or any other limiting descriptor. As a general definition, your statement was wrong.
2. None of your bolded paragraphs refer to botting or scripts.
3. There is a difference between botting and browser scripts for the gateway. The former directly interferes with the game client and/or the client/server communication, the second one merely issues the regular commands, as intended. Whether you click a browser button with a mouse or send a script command, the sent command is exactly the same. Note, that I am not regarding direct attacks like DDoS among that list. Also no crawlers and/or data miners.
4. You need to get VERY pendantic to consider scripts a game relevant "advantage" for even one of your bolded rules to apply. And then you are in the "avoiding zombies in CN is cheating" territory.
Note: I am not arguing about whether botting is cheating or not. I am and have been arguing that your broad generalization of what cheating ought to be was and still is wrong.
Actually all of those can be relevant to ANY Script usage on the gateway, especially when we start moving into SCA Farming/Profession Farming/AH relist&snipe applications.
15.2.e applies both in the increased load on network traffic and also associated issues there, also the "No 3rd Party application" rule most MMOs have.
15.2h, i & k as clause e along with further issues of unfair market manipulation, unnatural precision and uptime on professions vs human player and also unnatural optimisation on SCA running.
15.2.n again as clause e, the further you load a system unnaturally the worse the system performs whether it's a web server, chain hoist, car engine or human being; as such in this case it degrades the experience for others who are legitimate... so n kicks in there too.
Simply put Scripted Automation allows at one end of the effects an unfair advantage whether macro or personal scale, at the expense of others even when we apply it to Gateway scripts for the simple reason that the AH botting would have to reference the game data tables as would the Professions and SCA bots at either continuous or extremely frequent intervals, to an obvious degradation to game performance since they have felt it serious enough to take the step of disabling the whole gateway even though the unintended uptime last week showed the system itself is stable.
This is without even referencing the economic issues that are relevant. At it's simplest level Scripting allows you to perform at a level unavailable to a "vanilla" user, and as such at the simplest level you're cheating.
And just seen @mintmark posted 23.1 which is your "No 3rd party app" clause which is as he said pertinent here along with as @kreatyve said the standard MMO wish/demand of 1 click = 1 action, with of course the tweaking to that in games that have ICD vs GCD disticntions like WoW that allow macroing of abilities till you hit a GCD then it will fail... but then again said macros are a designed in-game feature everyone can use, not an external application or code piece.
As much as myself and @urabask were at loggerheads over the handling of the issue a few pages back, he's correct in both the definition of cheating and its' specific application to the issue relevant here of Gateway Scripting never mind in game.
0
jaysun1977Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 177Arc User
The **** are you on about? You're just arguing with yourself over minutiae that had nothing to do with what I said. So excuse me if your BS has nothing to do with what I said.
Sorry, but now you're just being an idiot. You gave a wrong definition, I corected you and then you started rambling on about advantages. The very source you cited gave no credence to you claim and now you just keep rambling. I am done with you.
That's probably because people also aren't able to use scripts for the auction house. So a lot of the extra supply is sitting in accounts because people can't sell it. So when they do post it they're undercutting by amounts that are larger than they otherwise would be in order to guarantee a sale.
If you look at the AH data for rank 5s they start to decline on August 24th, plummet after 2x enchants and continue to plummet with the gateway down whereas usually they'd spike the day after 2x enchants ends.
If people who use script can not put on the auction items, it is logical that there are fewer items, but it is not. Same flow.
Decline on August 24th? In what world? Where did you get that information? From the sleeve?
I'm checking R5 in AH since last 2xRP event and prices have remained between 25K and 30K, down from 45K worth in the previous event. And you can visit banned website and can check the log of goods traffic in the AH.
The AH sorts by lowest price, and unlike the Gateway, the AH sorts by price-per-unit, so something with 10 items in the stack at 1k each, for a total of 10k, will show up lower than something for 2k. Whenever I've used the Gateway the stack of 10 would show up in the list after the 2k item.
I've not said a lot here, mostly because I've not really used the Gateway much... though I wish I'd known about those Loyalty items for the companions... those I would have played SCA a bunch to get. Which level of SCA dungeons did they drop in?
They dropped in the highest dungeon on SCA. At least that is the only one that I could get the items from.
I thought this thread was about the gateway being down, not an argument about the nuances of the english language and what constitutes cheating?
Does anyone have any information about why it is down and when it will be back?
They have said why - it's because of people botting it. They have not said when it will be back.
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The AH sorts by lowest price, and unlike the Gateway, the AH sorts by price-per-unit, so something with 10 items in the stack at 1k each, for a total of 10k, will show up lower than something for 2k. Whenever I've used the Gateway the stack of 10 would show up in the list after the 2k item.
I've not said a lot here, mostly because I've not really used the Gateway much... though I wish I'd known about those Loyalty items for the companions... those I would have played SCA a bunch to get. Which level of SCA dungeons did they drop in?
They dropped in the highest dungeon on SCA. At least that is the only one that I could get the items from.
Well, if the Gateway ever comes back with SCA I guess I will go try to get some gear... or if it doesn't come back I hope they put the gear somewhere useful, and by useful I don't mean the Zen store... I'd be happy with the Tradebar Store for a reasonable price, which doesn't mean 500 bars a piece either Cryptic!
Well, if the Gateway ever comes back with SCA I guess I will go try to get some gear... or if it doesn't come back I hope they put the gear somewhere useful, and by useful I don't mean the Zen store... I'd be happy with the Tradebar Store for a reasonable price, which doesn't mean 500 bars a piece either Cryptic!
Unfortunately, the Trade Bar store, may as well be the Zen store. One would need Zen to buy a key or VIP. Regardless of how you acquire your Zen, Trade Bars come from lockboxes. Since I am a person who never gambles it isn't going to happen. I have played since the alpha and not once did I ever gamble in this game. I know this may be seen as my "screwball" ethics, but I won't start down that road. I am also a member of AA, another MMO I play has a drinking title, guess who refuses to do it?
<blockquote class="Quote" rel="sandukutupu"> Unfortunately, the Trade Bar store, may as well be the Zen store. One would need Zen to buy a key or VIP. Regardless of how you acquire your Zen, Trade Bars come from lockboxes. Since I am a person who never gambles it isn't going to happen. I have played since the alpha and not once did I ever gamble in this game. I know this may be seen as my "screwball" ethics, but I won't start down that road. I am also a member of AA, another MMO I play has a drinking title, guess who refuses to do it?</blockquote>
If you want to be that strict about gambling then technically every time you run a dungeon or open a coffer/refinement bag you're gambling. It's just time invested instead of money or AD. You don't even have to spend actual money to get VIP because you can convert AD to Zen and VIP always pays for itself. Lockbox drops have a minimum value so you're going to come out at least 150k AD ahead of the AD you put into VIP. Trying to say that VIP represents gambling just means that you're bad at math.
The part where it starts to drop off a cliff is September 2nd and typically it should've recovered sharply by September 5th but it hasn't.
The thing is people can still post items, they just have to do it manually in game. So that means in order to avoid having to repost items they're posting them at lower prices.
Well, if the Gateway ever comes back with SCA I guess I will go try to get some gear... or if it doesn't come back I hope they put the gear somewhere useful, and by useful I don't mean the Zen store... I'd be happy with the Tradebar Store for a reasonable price, which doesn't mean 500 bars a piece either Cryptic!
Unfortunately, the Trade Bar store, may as well be the Zen store. One would need Zen to buy a key or VIP. Regardless of how you acquire your Zen, Trade Bars come from lockboxes. Since I am a person who never gambles it isn't going to happen. I have played since the alpha and not once did I ever gamble in this game. I know this may be seen as my "screwball" ethics, but I won't start down that road. I am also a member of AA, another MMO I play has a drinking title, guess who refuses to do it?
VIP isn't gambling because you're putting in a fixed amount and there's a minimum return. And you don't have to put money into it either.
Technically if you want to be as strict as you are with VIP you're gambling every time you run a dungeon or open a refinement coffer/bag. Just you're gambling your investment in time as opposed to an investment in AD.
Post edited by kreatyve on
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
This is getting to be VERY unhealthy for me. I'm starting to RAGE with every SNR or Disconnect because it seems to expose 1 of 2 things (maybe both). The Devs are ignorant... claiming to fix connections issue with patches and other changes... and yet.. they are worse than ever. or 2.. the Devs are being deceptive and greedy.. using their incompetence (at stoping SNR/DC's) as an excuse to remove Gateway and other ad generation tools so that they can make more Money.
I'm NOT stupid... I'm not Ignorant.. I MIGHT be a fool.. but I'm not either of the other 2. . So, having been around Cryptic/PWE games long enough... this is really eating at me.
If it's about money.. then be straight with us... if it's about your inability to secure your own game... then be straight with us. If the inability to secure your game is because you are trying to be nice and not HAMSTER us off and remove systems in game.. then tell us... but if THAT'S the actual truth.. then your ACTIONS will show it.. and you won't use this downtime to create a trashy replacement that nerfs our ability to make profit in game or on the Gateway.
If you nerf our ad generation... then ALL of this was only EVER about your wallet and you have lied to your customers and tried to play them as fools. That's not business.. that's ABUSE.
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Well, if the Gateway ever comes back with SCA I guess I will go try to get some gear... or if it doesn't come back I hope they put the gear somewhere useful, and by useful I don't mean the Zen store... I'd be happy with the Tradebar Store for a reasonable price, which doesn't mean 500 bars a piece either Cryptic!
Unfortunately, the Trade Bar store, may as well be the Zen store. One would need Zen to buy a key or VIP. Regardless of how you acquire your Zen, Trade Bars come from lockboxes. Since I am a person who never gambles it isn't going to happen. I have played since the alpha and not once did I ever gamble in this game. I know this may be seen as my "screwball" ethics, but I won't start down that road. I am also a member of AA, another MMO I play has a drinking title, guess who refuses to do it?
I have VIP, so I use my one key a day... I am up to 595 trade bars now, and I've spent about 400 previously, so I guess I've had about 1000 bars so far without buying a single key! I don't count the VIP keys as buying keys, I count those as a nice bonus for having paid for the VIP perks!
I am thinking that a LOT of the recent changes are going to be bad for new players. I'm half tempted to make a new account just to see how hard it is to get going without access to chat and stuff up til a certain point.
Well even for us "old" players it stinks. Trying to level up leadership or alchemy with only in-game? Do you have any idea how long that takes when you can only use one character and have a task that has to run every 15 minutes? At least with the gateway I could run the task while my pc at work takes it's usual 20 minutes to be ready for work stuff. At lunch, I could run the task 2-3 times. And run it right before I leave.
Now I have to wait 8+ hours to run it a 2nd time.
Oh well, at least now I have more time for other games. The grind and this stupid decision is just too much at this point.
The gateway in the Russian NW is also down now. As I have supposed earlier, there was about 2 weeks delay in updating the game as compared to US-EU, and they are doing it now. Things start to get really interesting :* PS: there are currently 2 Lightfoot Thiefs on the AH, and their price is like 10 times higher as I remember from several months ago...
So we were told a blog would be posted this week, and as most people assumed, that means as late as possible. I suspect if we see anything at all, it will be at around 7 PM Central time, right as they hit the door.
I would really like to know what the percentage of craft processing has dropped to. I personally will not spend the time to work on it when I have dailies and weeklies to do. Personally as a new player to the game the gateway is what attracted me and now it's just another game like GW2 and so on.
(Devs can we please have the English post? Google translate is good and all, but I'd like my browser to not randomly switch languages on me)
Also: The lag in game has only gotten worse since the Gateway came down. @panderus - It's very clear the gold sellers have moved in game to bot professions which is causing even more lag, you sure you want to take down the Gateway? I feel like its actually the lesser of two evils leaving it up...
Read the German announcement just now. So they officially admit being ultimately defeated by bots and cheats (whatever this may mean), saying that the company resources will be relocated to generating game content (but SCA was also not the least part of it) and offering a free Gond mount to all who used the GW recently (without being specific as to what "recently" means - a week before September 2, a month, or how long.) No incentives to fresh players who decide to join despite such uncheerful news, never being able to use the GW at all. So we wait for major changes in prices and economy... old players with already maxed professions will get all the advantage, it will hardly be possible to achieve anything in this field from scratch within a reasonable time...
Comments
15.2.e applies both in the increased load on network traffic and also associated issues there, also the "No 3rd Party application" rule most MMOs have.
15.2h, i & k as clause e along with further issues of unfair market manipulation, unnatural precision and uptime on professions vs human player and also unnatural optimisation on SCA running.
15.2.n again as clause e, the further you load a system unnaturally the worse the system performs whether it's a web server, chain hoist, car engine or human being; as such in this case it degrades the experience for others who are legitimate... so n kicks in there too.
Simply put Scripted Automation allows at one end of the effects an unfair advantage whether macro or personal scale, at the expense of others even when we apply it to Gateway scripts for the simple reason that the AH botting would have to reference the game data tables as would the Professions and SCA bots at either continuous or extremely frequent intervals, to an obvious degradation to game performance since they have felt it serious enough to take the step of disabling the whole gateway even though the unintended uptime last week showed the system itself is stable.
This is without even referencing the economic issues that are relevant. At it's simplest level Scripting allows you to perform at a level unavailable to a "vanilla" user, and as such at the simplest level you're cheating.
And just seen @mintmark posted 23.1 which is your "No 3rd party app" clause which is as he said pertinent here along with as @kreatyve said the standard MMO wish/demand of 1 click = 1 action, with of course the tweaking to that in games that have ICD vs GCD disticntions like WoW that allow macroing of abilities till you hit a GCD then it will fail... but then again said macros are a designed in-game feature everyone can use, not an external application or code piece.
As much as myself and @urabask were at loggerheads over the handling of the issue a few pages back, he's correct in both the definition of cheating and its' specific application to the issue relevant here of Gateway Scripting never mind in game.
The very source you cited gave no credence to you claim and now you just keep rambling. I am done with you.
Decline on August 24th? In what world? Where did you get that information? From the sleeve?
I'm checking R5 in AH since last 2xRP event and prices have remained between 25K and 30K, down from 45K worth in the previous event. And you can visit banned website and can check the log of goods traffic in the AH.
An update on the status of repairing would be nice...
anyway.. may the goddess and the Hooved One look upon you with favor.
Blessed Be
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Unfortunately, the Trade Bar store, may as well be the Zen store. One would need Zen to buy a key or VIP. Regardless of how you acquire your Zen, Trade Bars come from lockboxes. Since I am a person who never gambles it isn't going to happen. I have played since the alpha and not once did I ever gamble in this game. I know this may be seen as my "screwball" ethics, but I won't start down that road. I am also a member of AA, another MMO I play has a drinking title, guess who refuses to do it?</blockquote>
If you want to be that strict about gambling then technically every time you run a dungeon or open a coffer/refinement bag you're gambling. It's just time invested instead of money or AD. You don't even have to spend actual money to get VIP because you can convert AD to Zen and VIP always pays for itself. Lockbox drops have a minimum value so you're going to come out at least 150k AD ahead of the AD you put into VIP. Trying to say that VIP represents gambling just means that you're bad at math.
The part where it starts to drop off a cliff is September 2nd and typically it should've recovered sharply by September 5th but it hasn't.
The thing is people can still post items, they just have to do it manually in game. So that means in order to avoid having to repost items they're posting them at lower prices. VIP isn't gambling because you're putting in a fixed amount and there's a minimum return. And you don't have to put money into it either.
Technically if you want to be as strict as you are with VIP you're gambling every time you run a dungeon or open a refinement coffer/bag. Just you're gambling your investment in time as opposed to an investment in AD.
....
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Wait how they still getting data with the gateway down O_o
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I'm NOT stupid... I'm not Ignorant.. I MIGHT be a fool.. but I'm not either of the other 2.
If it's about money.. then be straight with us... if it's about your inability to secure your own game... then be straight with us. If the inability to secure your game is because you are trying to be nice and not HAMSTER us off and remove systems in game.. then tell us... but if THAT'S the actual truth.. then your ACTIONS will show it.. and you won't use this downtime to create a trashy replacement that nerfs our ability to make profit in game or on the Gateway.
If you nerf our ad generation... then ALL of this was only EVER about your wallet and you have lied to your customers and tried to play them as fools. That's not business.. that's ABUSE.
― Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge
Guild Leader of Ardent Justice HQ: Always recruiting People not Pixels.
FOUNDER and OWNER of the SKT3K Channel: SKT Only Content 3k+. http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1228278/skt-content-for-the-non-elite-video-links-provided
Now I have to wait 8+ hours to run it a 2nd time.
Oh well, at least now I have more time for other games. The grind and this stupid decision is just too much at this point.
Let's see what happens.
Got a link?
well, in german.
It seems they'll give us a mini gond apparatus companion as compensation
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Edit - German Post: http://www.arcgames.com/de/games/neverwinter/news/detail/10161562-das-gateway-wird-eingestellt
French Post: http://www.arcgames.com/fr/games/neverwinter/news/detail/10161573-fermeture-du-gateway
(Devs can we please have the English post? Google translate is good and all, but I'd like my browser to not randomly switch languages on me)
Also: The lag in game has only gotten worse since the Gateway came down. @panderus - It's very clear the gold sellers have moved in game to bot professions which is causing even more lag, you sure you want to take down the Gateway? I feel like its actually the lesser of two evils leaving it up...