gateway down????

jaysun1977 · September 2016

There are two main reasons people use scripts or other means of automated task resolution:

1. Because they run thousands of clients simultaneously for the sole purpose of selling ingame goods for real cash (RMT), usually using customized clients, not to load the graphical interface.
2. Because the tasks are repetetitive, not fun, but seen as very rewarding or even required.

The former is entirely independant of developer actions. These bots will always exist and the ony way to scare them off is to make the participation more expensive. In other words, they need to ban more accounts than the RMT company is able to afford. That works only if you have a b2p setup, though. If each account costs 50 bucks, it can soon become too expensive for RMT to continue their trade or their services become prohibitvely expensive.

The latter happens only with poor game design. If a task in your game is not fun, why even have it in there. MMOs started this nonsense to have fillers, to create the illusion of more content, by stretchign the available content. It's a lazy design. It's an unimaginative design. And it is born out of the business models of MMOs. How do you keep people playing your gameuntil you are able to publish your next addon?

So, we have to live with a certain amount of monotonous tasks (something that goes against most work laws in modern, civilized countries), but if you make the rewards of these tasks mandatory for progression, you clearly invite scripting and botting from your average player.
The correct response to that is NOT tying the tasks to ingame time. The corret response to this is to either make them more fun (something I do not seen happening with professions in NWO, as it would require a massive redesign), or make them more rewarding for your average joe.
There have been good ideas posted already:

- Add an autorepeat button for tasks (alternatively, add a "collect all, repeat all" button to collect and repeat all currently completed tasks on your character)

- Add longer running tasks for more rewards (If longer term tasks yield more rewards than shorter term tasks, you have less strain on your system and the average player will feel a LOT better about your profession system. Babysitting a GUI is NOT fun. Not on a single character and especially not on multiple characters)

- Add better control options for the task interface, like keyboard shortcuts and tool filters.

An alternative option would be:

- drastically lower RP requirements

Fact is: the professions ain't fun. That's why people use scripts. It's that simple. If they were fun to do, then people would enjoy doing them. They certainly aren't. Yet, people feel madated to do them to be able to progress. Cryptic, you turned your game into an assembly line a long time ago. How about you stop punishing your players for a change? I mean, we ARE paying you, after all.

kvet · September 2016

"to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something"

"Cheating generally infers that someone is using something not included in the game itself to gain an advantage over other players or using an exploit to do something the devs don't intend you to do."

@jaysun1977 - please explain how these are different? Keeping in mind that exploits are against the rules per the ToS

urabask · September 2016

jaysun1977 said:

urabask said:
Cheating generally infers that someone is using something not included in the game itself to gain an advantage over other players or using an exploit to do something the devs don't intend you to do.
Maybe in your language, but certainly not in english:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cheat

Did you even read what you linked to?

That's not even getting into the fact that when you say someone is cheating in a game there are more specific examples of what would constitute cheating. Virtually every publisher or developer treats players using third part software as a cheat and only treat exploits that they disapprove as of cheats. So you can try to throw the dictionary around but the problem with the way you want to define it is that you're ignoring that the rules are defined by the devs and aren't quite set in stone. That's why PWE uses such vague language in their ToS because they need to be able to react to whatever players do. Going by the ToS though botting is a clear violation until the devs expressly say they approve of it.

kvet · September 2016

"cheating" means breaking the rules in some way - right? Under the ToS using ANY 3rd Party tool to effect in-game outcomes that has not been EXPRESSLY and EXPLICITLY approved by PWE - regardless of the tool, the purpose, or the method the tool takes - is a violation of the Terms of Service, and therefore cheating.

This includes any and all forms of automation in the gateway and problem includes using the autoclick macro trick described above (though there is some grey area on that one since it appears to use a Windows feature. Cryptic has never made it's position clear on use of Windows features in this way).

There's really no room for debate - if you are using anything in the gateway that allows you do something with the gateway that someone that's using the gateway on it's own can't do (which includes automatically changing profession tasks, either autonomously or one-click, or whatever) then you are in violation of the rules and therefore CHEATING. Either you are using vanilla Gateway or you are cheating.

jaysun1977 · September 2016

kvet said:
"to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something"

"Cheating generally infers that someone is using something not included in the game itself to gain an advantage over other players or using an exploit to do something the devs don't intend you to do."

@jaysun1977 - please explain how these are different? Keeping in mind that exploits are against the rules per the ToS

The "breaking the rules" part as a requirement.

urabask · September 2016

jaysun1977 said:

kvet said:
"to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something"

"Cheating generally infers that someone is using something not included in the game itself to gain an advantage over other players or using an exploit to do something the devs don't intend you to do."

@jaysun1977 - please explain how these are different? Keeping in mind that exploits are against the rules per the ToS
The "breaking the rules" part as a requirement.

These are the rules:

ToS said:

15. User Conduct

15.1You must observe these Terms, all Rules of Conduct, all applicable laws and all basic rules of etiquette and common courtesy when using the Service. Any conduct that violates the law in an offline, real world community is also a violation of these terms. We will not tolerate any illegal or offensive conduct.

15.2Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 16, you agree not to take any of the following actions:

a. harm minors in any way;

b. impersonate any person or entity, including any PWE officials, forum leaders, guides, hosts, employees or agents, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;

c. forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any message transmitted through the Website;

d. upload, post, e-mail, transmit or otherwise make available any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, “junk mail”, “spam”, “chain letters”, “pyramid schemes”, or any other form of solicitation;

e. interfere with or disrupt the Service or servers or networks connected to the Service, or disobey any requirements, procedures, policies or regulations of networks connected to the Service;

f. “stalk,” threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;

g. collect, store, post or otherwise disseminate any personal data about other users;

h. impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas (defined below) in the Service or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS), “spamming” or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or our employees;

i. engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;

j. engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;

k. cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;

l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;

m. trade, sell, auction or otherwise transfer any virtual items or goods of any nature outside the game;

n. take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.

15.3We may take any actions and impose any penalties we deem necessary to discourage and punish any violation of these terms or any other illegal or inappropriate conduct, all without prior notice or warning. The determination as to whether a violation has occurred and who is responsible for such act is solely within our discretion, and is based on what we deem best for the community and the Service. By using the Service, you agree you will be bound by our determination as to whether a violation has occurred and any penalty we choose to implement.

The bolded ones more applicable to botting. PWE can basically decide at any time that something constitutes a violation and they can ban you for it. If it looks like something is a violation it is, and if you haven't been banned for it it's because the devs have expressly said they approve of it, can't avoid false positives easily, or they're too busy to ban you for it. The last one is usually why people don't get banned for overt cheating.

jaysun1977 · September 2016

urabask said:

jaysun1977 said:

kvet said:
"to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something"

"Cheating generally infers that someone is using something not included in the game itself to gain an advantage over other players or using an exploit to do something the devs don't intend you to do."

@jaysun1977 - please explain how these are different? Keeping in mind that exploits are against the rules per the ToS
The "breaking the rules" part as a requirement.

These are the rules:
ToS said:

15. User Conduct

15.1You must observe these Terms, all Rules of Conduct, all applicable laws and all basic rules of etiquette and common courtesy when using the Service. Any conduct that violates the law in an offline, real world community is also a violation of these terms. We will not tolerate any illegal or offensive conduct.

15.2Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 16, you agree not to take any of the following actions:

a. harm minors in any way;

b. impersonate any person or entity, including any PWE officials, forum leaders, guides, hosts, employees or agents, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;

c. forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any message transmitted through the Website;

d. upload, post, e-mail, transmit or otherwise make available any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, “junk mail”, “spam”, “chain letters”, “pyramid schemes”, or any other form of solicitation;

e. interfere with or disrupt the Service or servers or networks connected to the Service, or disobey any requirements, procedures, policies or regulations of networks connected to the Service;

f. “stalk,” threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;

g. collect, store, post or otherwise disseminate any personal data about other users;

h. impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas (defined below) in the Service or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS), “spamming” or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or our employees;

i. engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;

j. engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;

k. cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;

l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;

m. trade, sell, auction or otherwise transfer any virtual items or goods of any nature outside the game;

n. take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.

15.3We may take any actions and impose any penalties we deem necessary to discourage and punish any violation of these terms or any other illegal or inappropriate conduct, all without prior notice or warning. The determination as to whether a violation has occurred and who is responsible for such act is solely within our discretion, and is based on what we deem best for the community and the Service. By using the Service, you agree you will be bound by our determination as to whether a violation has occurred and any penalty we choose to implement.
The bolded ones more applicable to botting. PWE can basically decide at any time that something constitutes a violation and they can ban you for it. If it looks like something is a violation it is, and if you haven't been banned for it it's because the devs have expressly said they approve of it, can't avoid false positives easily, or they're too busy to ban you for it. The last one is usually why people don't get banned for overt cheating.

1. You said "generally", not "in this case", "regarding MMos" or any other limiting descriptor. As a general definition, your statement was wrong.

2. None of your bolded paragraphs refer to botting or scripts.

3. There is a difference between botting and browser scripts for the gateway. The former directly interferes with the game client and/or the client/server communication, the second one merely issues the regular commands, as intended. Whether you click a browser button with a mouse or send a script command, the sent command is exactly the same. Note, that I am not regarding direct attacks like DDoS among that list. Also no crawlers and/or data miners.

4. You need to get VERY pendantic to consider scripts a game relevant "advantage" for even one of your bolded rules to apply. And then you are in the "avoiding zombies in CN is cheating" territory.

Note: I am not arguing about whether botting is cheating or not. I am and have been arguing that your broad generalization of what cheating ought to be was and still is wrong.

nameexpired · September 2016

So, on the gateway after starting the leadership task "Guard Clerics of Ilmater" you could either

A) click on "leadership task", scroll down to the task, select it, scroll down to start and press start
or

let your mouse stay where you clicked "start" last, press the "backspace" key, press "start" again
or
C) after logging in open the page to start a leadership task directly

Is any of this cheating? Why?

urabask · September 2016

jaysun1977 said:

urabask said:

jaysun1977 said:

kvet said:
"to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something"

"Cheating generally infers that someone is using something not included in the game itself to gain an advantage over other players or using an exploit to do something the devs don't intend you to do."

@jaysun1977 - please explain how these are different? Keeping in mind that exploits are against the rules per the ToS
The "breaking the rules" part as a requirement.

These are the rules:
ToS said:

15. User Conduct

15.1You must observe these Terms, all Rules of Conduct, all applicable laws and all basic rules of etiquette and common courtesy when using the Service. Any conduct that violates the law in an offline, real world community is also a violation of these terms. We will not tolerate any illegal or offensive conduct.

15.2Without limiting the foregoing, in addition to the User Content rules set forth in Section 16, you agree not to take any of the following actions:

a. harm minors in any way;

b. impersonate any person or entity, including any PWE officials, forum leaders, guides, hosts, employees or agents, or falsely state or otherwise misrepresent your affiliation with a person or entity;

c. forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any message transmitted through the Website;

d. upload, post, e-mail, transmit or otherwise make available any unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, promotional materials, “junk mail”, “spam”, “chain letters”, “pyramid schemes”, or any other form of solicitation;

e. interfere with or disrupt the Service or servers or networks connected to the Service, or disobey any requirements, procedures, policies or regulations of networks connected to the Service;

f. “stalk,” threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;

g. collect, store, post or otherwise disseminate any personal data about other users;

h. impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the Game or in Interactive Areas (defined below) in the Service or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS), “spamming” or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or our employees;

i. engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;

j. engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;

k. cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;

l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;

m. trade, sell, auction or otherwise transfer any virtual items or goods of any nature outside the game;

n. take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.

15.3We may take any actions and impose any penalties we deem necessary to discourage and punish any violation of these terms or any other illegal or inappropriate conduct, all without prior notice or warning. The determination as to whether a violation has occurred and who is responsible for such act is solely within our discretion, and is based on what we deem best for the community and the Service. By using the Service, you agree you will be bound by our determination as to whether a violation has occurred and any penalty we choose to implement.
The bolded ones more applicable to botting. PWE can basically decide at any time that something constitutes a violation and they can ban you for it. If it looks like something is a violation it is, and if you haven't been banned for it it's because the devs have expressly said they approve of it, can't avoid false positives easily, or they're too busy to ban you for it. The last one is usually why people don't get banned for overt cheating.
1. You said "generally", not "in this case", "regarding MMos" or any other limiting descriptor. As a general definition, your statement was wrong.

2. None of your bolded paragraphs refer to botting or scripts.

3. There is a difference between botting and browser scripts for the gateway. The former directly interferes with the game client and/or the client/server communication, the second one merely issues the regular commands, as intended. Whether you click a browser button with a mouse or send a script command, the sent command is exactly the same. Note, that I am not regarding direct attacks like DDoS among that list. Also no crawlers and/or data miners.

4. You need to get VERY pendantic to consider scripts a game relevant "advantage" for even one of your bolded rules to apply. And then you are in the "avoiding zombies in CN is cheating" territory.

Note: I am not arguing about whether botting is cheating or not. I am and have been arguing that your broad generalization of what cheating ought to be was and still is wrong.

My broad generalization is what virtually every single game publisher or developer enforces so you can believe whatever you want but that's the way it's enforced.

Also, all of them refer to botting scripts because the gateway is considered part of the Service.

And no, scripts provide a clear advantage over manually doing professions because you never miss a task and you don't have to waste time resetting tasks. Implying otherwise is ridiculous and you know it. Many of the people in this thread are even saying that they can't be be bothered to reset tasks without the gateway. The impact is that a lot of the items generated by professions would not exist if it weren't for players using scripts. That affects other players in that the supply is increased and price decreases so their effort in manually setting tasks has less value because other players are cheating.

Avoiding zombies in CN is a ridiculous comparison because it's done via normal gameplay and the devs have even said that it's intended.

venuslightheart · September 2016

Just thinking out of the box:
I believe Gateway will return on Thursday, October 6th, 2016. Cryptic conveniently took down Gateway on September 2nd, 2016. Cryptic and parent company fiscal third quarter ends September 30th or end of the year financial reporting for 2016. Note, not all companies utilize calendar end of the year for their financial statements and reporting.

Cryptic needs people to stop using Gateway, Cryptic needs all the players to login including Bots, Professions only players and all player types to increase server numbers for metrics, stats, financials and other numeric measurements. Many game developers and online game companies need report 3rd quarter or year end to be present to a greater business entity, Wall Street or even End of the Year bonus. It comes down to inflating the numbers. It is legal and Corporations and business does it all the time with creative accounting. The financial metrics might present important role for upcoming Holiday Season too.

Also, Neverwinter has 7 million players per venturebeat.com.
"Neverwinter now has more than 12 million players on PlayStation 4, Xbox One, and PC, publisher Perfect World announced today. The free-to-play massively multiplayer role-playing game (think World of Warcraft, but for D&D and in its popular Forgotten Realms campaign setting) just hit Sony’s flagship console July 19, and it already has more than 2 million players. It has 3 million on Xbox One, with the other 7 million playing on PCs."

Note: This is legal.

nameexpired · September 2016

venuslightheart said:
Just thinking out of the box:
I believe Gateway will return on Thursday, October 6th, 2016. Cryptic conveniently took down Gateway on September 2nd, 2016. Cryptic and parent company fiscal third quarter ends September 30th or end of the year financial reporting for 2016.

Interesting point on this subject!

jaysun1977 · September 2016

urabask said:
My broad generalization is what virtually every single game publisher or developer enforces so you can believe whatever you want but that's the way it's enforced.

That's not what I have been arguing, though. And it is not what you said.

urabask said:
Also, all of them refer to botting scripts because the gateway is considered part of the Service.

k) does neither mention bots, nor scripts
l) refers to bugs, errors or design flaws, neither of which refer to bots or scripts
n) refers to disruption of service, which also doesn't refer to bots or scripts

Listen, you picked your source. I just hang you by it.

urabask said:
And no, scripts provide a clear advantage over manually doing professions because you never miss a task and you don't have to waste time resetting tasks.

And this is exactly why I said you have to be VERY pendantic to get there. You gain no advantage over a thoroughly dedicated player. I had players in my guild that would set alarm clocks in MMOs to restart tasks, even at the cost of their own sleep. Did they have an "advantage" over the more laid back players? Were they cheating? Is getting the same result by different means an advantage then? You could spin this argument a thousand ways and ultimatley, the discussion about it is futile.
As far as I am concerned, "advantages" are things like perma dodging through IG line commands, speed hacks, teleportation hacks, duping, all of which conveniently fall under the very same "bugs, errors and exploits" part of the section l that actually refers to advantages in your given source.

urabask said:
Many of the people in this thread are even saying that they can't be be bothered to reset tasks without the gateway.

And your immideate assumption is they were all botting or scripting? That's harsh, mate. The majority of people will most likely merely have enjoyed the far superior interface of the gateway over the IG solution, including faster switches between characters, easier overview of the tasks, the support of keyboard commands, the readily available professions vendor and so forth. To assume they all just preferred the gateway to bot is ludicrous and insulting.

urabask said:
The impact is that a lot of the items generated by professions would not exist if it weren't for players using scripts. That affects other players in that the supply is increased and price decreases so their effort in manually setting tasks has less value because other players are cheating.

I would say, citation needed, but let's assume you are correct: Are you seriously advocating that the game would be more enjoyable and in a better state, if RP cost ten times as much? Seriously?

urabask said:
Avoiding zombies in CN is a ridiculous comparison because it's done via normal gameplay and the devs have even said that it's intended.

It's also an "advantage" over players that don't know about it. And the example fits perfectly, as you tend to drastically overestimate the "advantage" of gateway scripts. Yeah, I miss a few tasks here and there, I miss out on a few hours of tasks every day, because I am not willing to sacrifice my sleep for this game, nor my work time. And yeah, those players running scripts 24/7 had more RP than me. I don't really consider that a huge advantage, however. Having 50 characters on one account, THAT is a huge advantage and it's still perfectly legal as it's part of the game. Having 10 VIP accounts is a HUGE advantage and that's still legal as well.

And you hang youself on this silly notion of "fairness" and "disadvantages". There will always be players that will have more than you, will be more efficient than you are more business savvy than you. Are they all cheating? Of course they are not and you wouldn't claim that they were. You have to understand, though, that cheating is not about advantages or disadvantges, but about rules violations, exploits, bugs and interference. And when it comes to rules you cannot cherry pick specific lines out of a specific rule, disregarding the rest, like you did with section l in your source, solely focussing on an argument about advantages, disregarding the bugs/error/exploit requirement for that particular section.

Of course, you could have simply referred to paragraph 15 of the ToS where they state, and I am paraphrasing here, "we can make HAMSTER up whenever we like and you have to suck it up! We decide what is a violation of our ToS and who cares what we wrote in them!"

andorrabell · September 2016

@panderus
Why is this starting to feel like the announcement will be a dine and dash at 5 minutes before everyone heads out the doors on Friday to duck the ensuing kitten-storm?

urabask · September 2016

jaysun1977 said:
That's not what I have been arguing, though. And it is not what you said.

The **** are you on about? You're just arguing with yourself over minutiae that had nothing to do with what I said. So excuse me if your BS has nothing to do with what I said.

jaysun1977 said:
k) does neither mention bots, nor scripts
l) refers to bugs, errors or design flaws, neither of which refer to bots or scripts
n) refers to disruption of service, which also doesn't refer to bots or scripts

Listen, you picked your source. I just hang you by it.

You're just being obtuse.

It does not need to specifically rule out botting. They don't do that so they can ban you for whatever they want. Using scripts is an exploit and allowing them to be used on the gateway is a design flaw. If they weren't would've implemented it as part of the gateway allowing you to automate the actions you have to do manually otherwise. The fact that you have to go out of your way to do something that is not implemented by the developers should be a clear sign that something is an exploit.

jaysun1977 said:
I would say, citation needed, but let's assume you are correct: Are you seriously advocating that the game would be more enjoyable and in a better state, if RP cost ten times as much? Seriously?

Seriously? What do you need a citation for? If people aren't resetting tasks then that RP isn't being made or entering the AH. So if more people are resetting tasks more than they would otherwise supply increases and prices drop.

If RP would cost ten times as much as a result of this then they need to take steps to fix their supply problems without relying on bots. Just because bots are making prices reasonable doesn't mean that they're the only solution. Even at the current prices RP is still too expensive for most players anyways and Cryptic can't take drastic steps to increase it because people will just bot even more if they do.

jaysun1977 said:
It's also an "advantage" over players that don't know about it. And the example fits perfectly, as you tend to drastically overestimate the "advantage" of gateway scripts. Yeah, I miss a few tasks here and there, I miss out on a few hours of tasks every day, because I am not willing to sacrifice my sleep for this game, nor my work time. And yeah, those players running scripts 24/7 had more RP than me. I don't really consider that a huge advantage, however. Having 50 characters on one account, THAT is a huge advantage and it's still perfectly legal as it's part of the game. Having 10 VIP accounts is a HUGE advantage and that's still legal as well.

Then suddenly multiply this advantage by 10,000 players and it's a significant part why we have so much RP on the AH. Just because you feel entitled to something doesn't mean that you aren't affecting other players.

Having 50 characters on one account is an intended part of the game's design so you can't really compare it to using scripts. I mean ffs why even bring that up when that's what makes using scripts so advantageous? You're saying that scripts aren't advantageous and then you bring up the reason why they are to say they aren't.

Having 10 accounts is actually a violation of the ToS because you're not supposed to have more than one account per player. PWE doesn't enforce this in all cases though. Unless a player is deliberately using it to gain an advantage they don't ban for it. If you sent proof that a player was using 10 VIP accounts to a GM they'd likely ban the player for it.

litaaers · September 2016

Could it have anything to do with the conspiracy theorists running rampant in a 24 page thread over a web service?

I'm starting to think we should double check if this is linked to JFK or Area 51.....

I would LOVE for, one day, a forensic archeologist to come in, determine that the Gateway shut down was JUST a simple business decision, and then write a book about all the re-dic-u-lous ideas that sprouted from it. It could be titled: "The Internet - Sometimes a cigar REALLY is just a cigar."

beckylunatic · September 2016

jaysun1977 said:

Having 10 VIP accounts is a HUGE advantage and that's still legal as well.

This is actually an area where they have left the language fuzzy. Multiple accounts is neither expressly disallowed, nor expressly allowed.

jamesbond007 · September 2016

andorrabell said:
@panderus
Why is this starting to feel like the announcement will be a dine and dash at 5 minutes before everyone heads out the doors on Friday to duck the ensuing kitten-storm?

I think that's going to be the case lol.

solbergx · September 2016

kreatyve said:

razor4lpha said:
What's up with the gateway?
Should be some official announcement from the devs either today or tomorrow (I hope).

eastward · September 2016

Am I the only praying that after maintenance today the Gateway is up so I can get my builds in at work? 2 cents, but venuslightheart's statement earlier was amazing. I honestly think it might just be that!

beckylunatic · September 2016

eastward said:
Am I the only praying that after maintenance today the Gateway is up so I can get my builds in at work?

Panderus said not likely this week. If the login does come up when maintenance ends, it'll be another accident.

As for the official blog about it... sadly, "by the end of the week" could include any time up to end of the day Friday.

mintmark · September 2016

I think section 23.1 of the terms is pertinent...

The Games are designed for play only as offered through our Service. You agree not to access, create or provide any other means through which the game may be played by others, such as through server emulators. You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or give you an advantage in the use of the Services which is not authorized by us, including but not limited to the use of ‘bots’ and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input.

It seems like anything that lets you do things without human input is against the terms of service.

mariaunapaja · September 2016

urabask said:

And no, scripts provide a clear advantage over manually doing professions because you never miss a task and you don't have to waste time resetting tasks. Implying otherwise is ridiculous and you know it. Many of the people in this thread are even saying that they can't be be bothered to reset tasks without the gateway. The impact is that a lot of the items generated by professions would not exist if it weren't for players using scripts. That affects other players in that the supply is increased and price decreases so their effort in manually setting tasks has less value because other players are cheating.

The Gateway has been closed for 2 weeks and the price of enchantements R5 continues to fall ..........
1 stack of R5 costs 30K AD two weeks ago, today 17K AD

I think you all know that false mantra of "supply and demand"

urabask · September 2016

That's probably because people also aren't able to use scripts for the auction house. So a lot of the extra supply is sitting in accounts because people can't sell it. So when they do post it they're undercutting by amounts that are larger than they otherwise would be in order to guarantee a sale.

If you look at the AH data for rank 5s they start to decline on August 24th, plummet after 2x enchants and continue to plummet with the gateway down whereas usually they'd spike the day after 2x enchants ends.

theycallmetomu · September 2016

There's this assumption that everything is bots, but when every player who already has maxed artifact weapons is running Escort Wizard Seneschabadabadingdong, you're going to have lots of minor reses flooding the market; the gateway going down limits that flow, but it doesn't eliminate it.

I'd say it could be more a demand issue than a supply issue; if people end up maxing their artifact weapons, they no longer need those resonance stones. So if the player growth slows, but there's not a large amount of exit from the producers of content, then prices fall not due to a glut of supply, but due to a limit of demand.

Or maybe those players just don't have astral diamonds anymore, because they can't invoke on 20 characters to get astral diamonds (now they have to do a buncha salvaging HAMSTER).

The same dynamics apply to enchantments: once people essentially peak, demand falls. I'm a bit more surprised re: enchantments, simply due to strongholds, so this one could very well be more of a demand issue.

plasticbat · September 2016

mariaunapaja said:

urabask said:

And no, scripts provide a clear advantage over manually doing professions because you never miss a task and you don't have to waste time resetting tasks. Implying otherwise is ridiculous and you know it. Many of the people in this thread are even saying that they can't be be bothered to reset tasks without the gateway. The impact is that a lot of the items generated by professions would not exist if it weren't for players using scripts. That affects other players in that the supply is increased and price decreases so their effort in manually setting tasks has less value because other players are cheating.

The Gateway has been closed for 2 weeks and the price of enchantements R5 continues to fall ..........
1 stack of R5 costs 30K AD two weeks ago, today 17K AD

I think you all know that false mantra of "supply and demand"

Was it? May be I was just very unlucky. I posted around 15K 2 weeks ago (around 2xRP and 2xEnchantment time). Those came back in mail. I posted with a higher price this week. It was sold.

plasticbat · September 2016

With the sucky in game AH, there is no sorting. It is hard to see a good picture of a stack of 99. Gateway's sorting is 10 times better (at least you can sort it) although it is still far from proper.

samaka · September 2016

The AH sorts by lowest price, and unlike the Gateway, the AH sorts by price-per-unit, so something with 10 items in the stack at 1k each, for a total of 10k, will show up lower than something for 2k. Whenever I've used the Gateway the stack of 10 would show up in the list after the 2k item.

I've not said a lot here, mostly because I've not really used the Gateway much... though I wish I'd known about those Loyalty items for the companions... those I would have played SCA a bunch to get. Which level of SCA dungeons did they drop in?

plasticbat · September 2016

samaka#2511 said:
The AH sorts by lowest price, and unlike the Gateway, the AH sorts by price-per-unit, so something with 10 items in the stack at 1k each, for a total of 10k, will show up lower than something for 2k. Whenever I've used the Gateway the stack of 10 would show up in the list after the 2k item.

I've not said a lot here, mostly because I've not really used the Gateway much... though I wish I'd known about those Loyalty items for the companions... those I would have played SCA a bunch to get. Which level of SCA dungeons did they drop in?

Gateway allows you to sort by number of unit. To find the lowest price of a stack of 99, this is what I do.

(Click price) Sort by price and then (click unit) sort by number of unit.
This gives you the lowest price of 99 on the top.

In game, you need eye ball to find the 99 (which may be only 1 in the whole page which has less row than Gateway.

Gateway gives you some extra sorting option. In game, no option for sorting, only the default one.

daddymagic3000 · September 2016

I thought this thread was about the gateway being down, not an argument about the nuances of the english language and what constitutes cheating?

Does anyone have any information about why it is down and when it will be back?

plasticbat · September 2016

daddymagic3000#5881 said:
I thought this thread was about the gateway being down, not an argument about the nuances of the english language and what constitutes cheating?

Does anyone have any information about why it is down and when it will be back?

We are still waiting for the answer. They suppose to say something by the end of the week.

gateway down????

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