@asterdahlI think an easy way of portraying how we feel about the loot system is comparing it to the refining system. We don't like either. When refining, you fail over and over again and burn through wards and eventually you succeed. It doesn't matter if you know that statistically, over time you will use as many wards as the chance portrayed on the label, because it doesn't feel nice to see, "failure" on your screen over and over again. The same is true with the loot in dungeons. It doesn't matter if over time statistically you get a good outcome from a big win, the point is, 99 out of 100 times you feel the sting of failure and it doesn't feel nice. I would very happily go back to the old system, where something drops that has high value, the party rolls on it and 1 person gets lucky. Or, if its class specific, then maybe the person who can use it then wins their item. The point was, every run something dropped and so even if someone else won it and not me, I saw what dropped on every run and I felt like I had a chance to win it. Yes, some people got the raw end of the stick with that system, but you know what, unlike the current one, it felt rewarding. Now, when you win something, it doesn't feel rewarding at all, it leaves a sour taste in the mouth. I would rather see something good every run and only have a 1 in 5 chance to get it, knowing that at least if I do not get it someone else benefits from it, then every so often get something nice.
This. +100000000000000000000000000000000000000
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
0
checkmatein3Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 525Arc User
In order to make make a 30-45min dungeon worth the time, and yet not replace the revenue stream the devs want from lockboxes and zen store, how about:
Guaranteed drops (all of the following): 1 Epic Unbound Campaign Voucher of the Player's Choice 1 Black Opal 1 Rank 8 Enchant of Any Single Stat (not including Bonding) 1 Rank 8 Dual Statted/Triple Statted Enchant (Randomly Selected by Type) Sufficient Relics to Make up for Time of Run in Degrading Armor
50% Drop (two of the following): +4 Ring (unbound) Salvage Worth 8-10k AD 1 Black Opal 1 Rank 9 Enchant of Any Type (not including Bonding) 1 Epic Unbound Campaign Voucher (randomly given)
25-33% Drops (one of the following): A second +4 Ring (bound) 5 Pres Wards 1 Blood Ruby 1 Rank 8 Bonding Runestone
5-10% Drop (one of the following): +5 Legendary Ring of choice (unbound) Coalescent Ward 1 Brilliant Diamond 1 Rank 9 Bonding Runestone
1% Drops (one of the following): Epic Mount Epic Companion Legendary Artifact 1 Rank 10 Enchant of Any type
To everybody expecting to get paid for their time. Are you here to have fun or get paid? [...] With a good pug I can make close to and usually over 100k in around an hour on a single toon in CN.
Rewarding is part of the fun if you want something to survive more than 2 or 3 runs. I can play SuperMario for fun, finish it and then start another title. If you don't have incentives to run and farm FBI, then you're right: keep on running CN forever.
PS: There's a slight contraddiction in your post: it seems that you have fun by getting paid 100k/hour at CN...
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
if you farm with nearly the same people , you could also take turns looting it
The loot is fine the way it is. Just increase the drop rate of rank 8's and all is well.
To everybody expecting to get paid for their time. Are you here to have fun or get paid?
If you are looking for a job, you are in the wrong place.
If you are here to play a game, with loot as a bonus. Then the loot tables are fine.
With a good pug I can make close to and usually over 100k in around an hour on a single toon in CN.
I suggest playing for the fun of it. Instead of expecting to get paid to play.
We all have progression goals, gated behind AD. The issue is clear when lower end content, pays the same as higher end, but takes 3 x as long, you "might" not care but many of us do.
CN only pays that much with RNG based rewards btw, in fact mod 10, cn gets a loot hit. Otherwise you could EASILY run 5-6 or more CNS in a row and get nothing but one blue +3 ring. Even if you do 5 straight in a hour time , but earn nothing more then the AD on the first two runs and 5 + blue rings, in the new mod.. this is worht a whopping 22k for your hours time.
And yes.. IVE run up to ten CNs in a row without a purple drop.
To everybody expecting to get paid for their time. Are you here to have fun or get paid? [...] With a good pug I can make close to and usually over 100k in around an hour on a single toon in CN.
Rewarding is part of the fun if you want something to survive more than 2 or 3 runs. I can play SuperMario for fun, finish it and then start another title. If you don't have incentives to run and farm FBI, then you're right: keep on running CN forever.
PS: There's a slight contraddiction in your post: it seems the you have fun by getting paid 100k/hour at CN...
No you misunderstand. I run CN for fun (the reason I pug and don't premade it) ... and as a bonus. I make 100k. I think the rewards are fine. Maybe even a little too high. I can run dungeons 10-15 hours/week and make 3 Million in a month. Tripling of loot for Fangbreaker would be far too much and result in people only running Fangbreaker . Increasing the drop rate of rank 8's in Fangbreaker is all that is needed. I'll still play it for fun and walk away with decent loot.
To everybody expecting to get paid for their time. Are you here to have fun or get paid? [...] With a good pug I can make close to and usually over 100k in around an hour on a single toon in CN.
Rewarding is part of the fun if you want something to survive more than 2 or 3 runs. I can play SuperMario for fun, finish it and then start another title. If you don't have incentives to run and farm FBI, then you're right: keep on running CN forever.
PS: There's a slight contraddiction in your post: it seems the you have fun by getting paid 100k/hour at CN...
No you misunderstand. I run CN for fun (the reason I pug and don't premade it) ... and as a bonus. I make 100k. I think the rewards are fine. Maybe even a little too high. I can run dungeons 10-15 hours/week and make 3 Million in a month. Tripling of loot for Fangbreaker would be far too much and result in people only running Fangbreaker . Increasing the drop rate of rank 8's in Fangbreaker is all that is needed. I'll still play it for fun and walk away with decent loot.
That's the point. FBI has entry requirements that force the devs to make it rewarding or no one runs it. They're not making the dungeon for special snowflakes that don't care about rewards. That would just make the mod a bust when they're already losing players month after month.
Everybody in this thread is saying the same thing:
"pay me or I'm not playing"
It used to be that playing WAS the reward. The loot was just a bonus.
That was never true for MMO endgame. Not in a single MMORPG ever released. Not even by the most casual of players. MMO endgame is goal driven. You set your sights and you aim for your goal. It's the ever dangling carrot your chasing. The next better piece of equipment that will propell your character forward, gated behind obstacles you have to overcome. It doesn't matter if we are talking about Vanilla WoW, current WoW, Blade&Soul, Guild wars (1 or 2), Skyforge or any other MMORPG out there, the mechanics of player motivation stay the same: progression in power and/or prestige. Every single MMO that ignored that went the way of the Dodo.
Yes, there are exceptions. Some sandbox MMOs (like Second Life) continue an existance as 3D fetish chatrooms, but you can hardly count them as "MMORPGS" anymore. Neither can you call what its users do "playing" (by the definitions used in game theory).
But let's cut the discussion down from personal goals and let's look at the publisher side: money. You want players to spend money. For that you want to retain players. Currently, Cryptic and PWE are frantically trying to do just that with all the events and the millions of AD each of these events flood into the market each time. I can make more AD in a single of the special events than I can make in an entire year of playing NWO. But how long is that going to last? And why gate the actual AD gain (read: character progression) behind special events rather than regular content? If you want players to stay, you need to incentivize them to play. That means provide tangible advancement for their character through ordinary means. If you don't do that, the players will leave. That's a snowball effect, mind you. The moment you drop below the critical threshhold (and we are very close to that), the game will die out. Cryptic and PWE can give hardly a Kitten about it, seeing the numbers of players on XBox 1 and PS4, but you, as a PC player will suffer from it.
So, rather than portraying a holier than though attitude, think about the consequences.
I'm happy with the changes to stats on the armor but- is there any way to make the armor last longer than 1-2 hours? As it stands right now it's only useful while doing FB island. If we took a page from Black Ice infused PVP armor from mod 3 and increased the empowerment time to 6-8 hours or so it might actually be worth using in other places and then logically replacing armor pieces without having to take your gear off every time you're not running this dungeon. I think ultimately that is what is most annoying about an empowerment system- they are just temporary replacements for gear made even more temporary by the very short time limit.
The empowerment on black ice armor and relic armor is exactly the same actually. Both armors have 2 hours of empowered time at T3 at max, then 2 hours at T2 then 2 hours at T1 (i think, i never made it down to T1). There is a dev post in one of these feedback threads that says 2 hours of combat time = about 4 hours of played time
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
0
misquamacus2Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 194Arc User
I'd like to see rewards like reinforcements that are better than what we can do with professions (for example +400 instead of +200). They could be BtA so you can use them on another toon if the reinforcement is wrong for your current toon. That at least is an incentive to run the dungeon just to get a chance to improve your stats if you get the right kind of reinforcement. You could even have reinforcement sets that don't add anything until you have a set of two or three
I would also do a run for the chance to pick up new clothing, or perhaps new single colour dye bottles (in packs of 4).
There is a dev post in one of these feedback threads that says 2 hours of combat time = about 4 hours of played time
It can even be substantially less depending on what you are doing. You might be empowering your equipment a bit more often with relic armor than you were with black ice, but it should not be harder to maintain than black ice gear. If you are playing through the new content normally you shouldn't have too much trouble maintaining your charge as you work through the campaign.
After you've finished the campaign, merely maintaining your empowerment even for long periods of play should not be onerous. When you have the equipment on live and have gotten a feel for how much work it is to maintain, please continue to send your feedback.
Masterwork will not maintain value in mod10..... Masterwork rings only has value because the droprate of the legendary rings are insane.
We're aware that releasing a new set of armor with a competitive item level will reduce the demand for masterwork items, thereby lowering their market value. However, this will not be an overnight adjustment. The market will be affected by speculation as M10 approaches and goes live, however, relic armor will take time to obtain, and Fangbreaker will not be immediately accessible to every player. We'll continue to watch the masterwork market.
And Armors dont need to be BoE but the legendary rings DO since the droprate of those are ridiculously low. Or you want the players to know when a player has farmed CN/Edemo 500 times to get the rings?.. This sounds more like you being cheap and dont wanna give us anything that takes away from your $$. Even when the cost is a worse game.
What's more important to us is that the investment players have made in masterwork is not invalidated overnight. An MMORPG is a complex ecosystem of various interacting economies. Sometimes changes need to be swift and decisive and sometimes a slower hand is required. We'd like to build trust that if we introduce a system with a large investment like masterwork that said investment will carry over into future endeavors, or at the very least that the return will decay at a somewhat predictable rate.
Obviously the return on investment with a system like masterwork is highest at the start. If you're starting masterwork now (on the PC at least) hopefully it is for personal achievement, because you are happy with the current investment requirements vs. the rate of decay of prices, or because you are hedging that your progress will be worthwhile in the future.
We want players to trust that their investment in a given system means something. This is why we made changes like always double refinement for artifact weapons. Not every investment will always carry forward directly or 1:1, but while relic armor provides some competition with masterwork for the most elite, sellable BoE equipment would provide steep competition across the spectrum.
[...] We want players to trust that their investment in a given system means something
Lesson learned from the past I would say, when we were forced to refine a new set at every module release. But there's a potential counter-argument about trust and investment, when the wards were removed from the Taralume market and the investment in the VIP program done by many players was dramatically reduced on short notice. But this is off-topic.
Imo this discussion has provided a sound evidence of what many players would like to receive from this dungeon: many good ideas were proposed and now it's up to the devs team.
@asterdahl: I really appreciate that, for the first time, you want to discuss loots and rewards with the players regardless I (we) agree with you or not. I hope this "experiment" can be repeated in the future. Your analytics will tell if the choices you're implementing are the right one or not.
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
ALSO if i cast a daily every some seconds or reset permanent my encounters etc.......... what will offer me the fbi dungeon? with perma dailies encounters i dont need skill to clear even that hard dungeon.
Everybody in this thread is saying the same thing:
"pay me or I'm not playing"
It used to be that playing WAS the reward. The loot was just a bonus.
You mean back in the days we could play the class we wanted the paragon we wanted in very enjoyable dungeons like the full version of CN or dread vault? You mean back in the days that masking a character full BIS wouldn't take 70 million? Yeah the game was good now it's much worse but we still play in hope we will see something similar to that.
The loot is fine the way it is. Just increase the drop rate of rank 8's and all is well.
To everybody expecting to get paid for their time. Are you here to have fun or get paid?
If you are looking for a job, you are in the wrong place.
If you are here to play a game, with loot as a bonus. Then the loot tables are fine.
With a good pug I can make close to and usually over 100k in around an hour on a single toon in CN.
I suggest playing for the fun of it. Instead of expecting to get paid to play.
You got what you wanted since beta and now you're making new players even poorer than it is unlike a certain mod where you have free handouts and ZAX is more gentle compared to now.
And what about over-geared players leave instance the moment they see minimum IL players on the group that die repeatedly? It's already hard enough to go beyond 2.5k let alone 3.1k requirement. Oh right. It's not a job for over-geared players to carry scrubs like me to complete a dungeon, especially PUGs. They won't even accept the queue that is ongoing.
Let me ask you this. What is your expected gameplay for a fresh and not a whale player in Mod 10 to get 3.1k IL?
And what was the expected gameplay for a fresh and not a whale player in Mod 5 to get 3.1k IL?
In order to make make a 30-45min dungeon worth the time, and yet not replace the revenue stream the devs want from lockboxes and zen store, how about:
Guaranteed drops (all of the following): 1 Epic Unbound Campaign Voucher of the Player's Choice 1 Black Opal 1 Rank 8 Enchant of Any Single Stat (not including Bonding) 1 Rank 8 Dual Statted/Triple Statted Enchant (Randomly Selected by Type) Sufficient Relics to Make up for Time of Run in Degrading Armor
50% Drop (two of the following): +4 Ring (unbound) Salvage Worth 8-10k AD 1 Black Opal 1 Rank 9 Enchant of Any Type (not including Bonding) 1 Epic Unbound Campaign Voucher (randomly given)
25-33% Drops (one of the following): A second +4 Ring (bound) 5 Pres Wards 1 Blood Ruby 1 Rank 8 Bonding Runestone
5-10% Drop (one of the following): +5 Legendary Ring of choice (unbound) Coalescent Ward 1 Brilliant Diamond 1 Rank 9 Bonding Runestone
1% Drops (one of the following): Epic Mount Epic Companion Legendary Artifact 1 Rank 10 Enchant of Any type
<1% Drops (one of the following): Legendary Mount</div>
Do not be so greedy i think it should be like this: Guaranteed drops (all of the following): 1 Epic Unbound Campaign Voucher of the Player's Choice Salvage Worth 5-8k AD Sufficient Relics to Make up for Time of Run in Degrading Armor
50% Drop (one of the following): +4 Ring of choice (unbound) 1 Black Opal 1 Rank 9 Enchant of Any Type (one stat and not including runestones)
10% Drop (one of the following): 5 Pres Wards 1 Rank 7 Bonding Runestone
5% Drop +5 Legendary Ring of choice (unbound)
1% Drops (one of the following): Epic Companion Legendary Artifact 1 Rank 10 Enchant of Any type
<blockquote class="Quote" rel="checkmatein3">In order to make make a 30-45min dungeon worth the time, and yet not replace the revenue stream the devs want from lockboxes and zen store, how about:
Guaranteed drops (all of the following): 1 Epic Unbound Campaign Voucher of the Player's Choice 1 Black Opal 1 Rank 8 Enchant of Any Single Stat (not including Bonding) 1 Rank 8 Dual Statted/Triple Statted Enchant (Randomly Selected by Type) Sufficient Relics to Make up for Time of Run in Degrading Armor
50% Drop (two of the following): +4 Ring (unbound) Salvage Worth 8-10k AD 1 Black Opal 1 Rank 9 Enchant of Any Type (not including Bonding) 1 Epic Unbound Campaign Voucher (randomly given)
25-33% Drops (one of the following): A second +4 Ring (bound) 5 Pres Wards 1 Blood Ruby 1 Rank 8 Bonding Runestone
5-10% Drop (one of the following): +5 Legendary Ring of choice (unbound) Coalescent Ward 1 Brilliant Diamond 1 Rank 9 Bonding Runestone
1% Drops (one of the following): Epic Mount Epic Companion Legendary Artifact 1 Rank 10 Enchant of Any type
<1% Drops (one of the following): Legendary Mount </blockquote>
Posts like this game breaking fantasy don't help us get better rewards from dungeons...
Also, what's up with the terrible quote system?
0
jaysun1977Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 177Arc User
You need to rework the way you determine item level. The way it is currently set up, it is wildly inconsistent. Using my GWF as an example:
My elemental Alliance Assault Sallet (iL 132) provides me with 2.488 useable stats plus 9K HP My Rank 139 Sigil of the Controller (iL 130) provides me with 1,858 useable stats plus 567 points of control resist no one needs. The same Sigil of the controller about 800K AD later at rank 140 (iL 160) provides me with 2,000 useable stats and 600 points of control resist. That's 142 stats more for a whopping 30 IL and still less total useable stats than the iL 132 sallet.
At the same time,
My chest at iL 140 (dragonflight) provides me with 3,612 useable stats and 21K HP My legs at iL 140 (dragonflight) provide me with 2,351 useable stats and 11K HP
How can you rank them as the same iL?
The same holds true for every other comparison, be it enchantment ranks, armor and weapon enchantments in general or the complete neglect of factoring in companions, mount bonuses or insignias.
As it stand right now, iL is not an accurate measure of performance and as such your mileage will vary wildly in regards to content and progression speed. You need to streamline the entire model if you want to use it as a reliable basis. Unless you do that at least internally as part of your design process, your time making challenging content will be largely wasted, as players simply won't partake in it. The rewards are just not good enough not to get the same or even more rewards grinding easier content.
Its fairly simple. If you want people to run content endlessly, make it worth it. I cant tell you how many times I ran dungeons back in the day. The chance to get an unbound piece of armor to sell in the ah was the motivation that drove me and friends to stay awake till 4am when we had to work at 6am. Now im the sole survivor because they could care less about BIS. Currently you can farm for bis rings, but lets face it most people will be happy with plus four rings. Even with this new content (mod 10), ill get my new armor in a day or two then im back to running around the enclave on my mount. Just give us something to sell. What this game is missing is dungeon exclusives. Maybe fashion pieces you can only get upon beating fangbreaker in a certain amount of time? titles? green level mount with a unique look? make them unbound. Give people a reason to farm beyond the chase for BIS. As others have said, unbound rank five rings. that or make them a choice but keep current drop rate. its very disheartening when I see a 2.5k with both the plus five rings I need (ive run edemo/ cn over 2000x). Lastly, you already have tons of stuff you could add to fbi to make it worthwhile. Pres/ coal wards, superior marks (dread ring drops these too in a much easier way), blood rubies, artifacts (like you used to in shores), and maybe even rank 9s. I made an account just for this post, because I do care. I am close to 4k, have played since day 1, put real money, and will not threaten that people will leave the game (i usually see most people post similar things to give what they say validity). Thank you.
0
hypergorila2Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 73Arc User
edited August 2016
I would be happy with adding something simple like some guaranteed RP stones. And I say adding this, on top of the current rewards, not making this the sole reward. Something like: 1st boss --> 60% change at peridot; 30% chance at aquamarine; 10% chance at sapphire; 2nd boss --> 30% chance at peridot; 60% chance at aquamarine; 10% chance at sapphire; 3rd boss --> 60% chance at aquamarie, 30% chance at sapphire; 10% chance at black opal;
These chance values and the stone types are somewhat arbitrary and would probably need some adjustment, also this system could be implemented into all dungeons, with diferent chances and diferent kinds of RP stones matching the dungeon type (T1, T2, T3).
It's a small change, not "economy breaking" imho, and would make those consecutive dungeon farming runs feel more rewarding because at least we would see the RP stones' stacks begging bigger.
I really hope they listen to some of the good feedback here, but I fear Sharpedge is right. No one will slog through this dungeon for the piddly rewards, when there are much quicker ways of getting <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>* drops.
And I also think this empowering mechanic is going to be dead on arrival. The people I've talked to said they'll just live with the gear as is, and not worry about the modest stat gains. Unless it's required for this dungeon or something else. No one wants to farm dailies for a two hour boost. Just look at how many people you see using overload enchants now that they fixed the timers haha
I really hope they listen to some of the good feedback here, but I fear Sharpedge is right. No one will slog through this dungeon for the piddly rewards, when there are much quicker ways of getting ***** drops.
And I also think this empowering mechanic is going to be dead on arrival. The people I've talked to said they'll just live with the gear as is, and not worry about the modest stat gains. Unless it's required for this dungeon or something else. No one wants to farm dailies for a two hour boost. Just look at how many people you see using overload enchants now that they fixed the timers haha
Devs please take heed!
In Mod 3 you needed 20% Black Ice Resistance to enter the Kessell skirmish, but people mostly switched to their old gear inside because it was superior. I don't think it's going to be that easy with FBI. You are going to need a decent Everfrost % to run it.
I like that you bring up Overload Enchantments, because those came to my mind as well as timer mechanic that didn't really work out that great (next to Mod 3 *cough cough*).
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
I actually don't mind the BI overload enchants because of their long timer. There's a world of difference between an 8-hour and a 2-hour in-combat timer. I bought a bunch of glyphs while they were bugged in order to stock up ('cause they were so cheap), but haven't really felt like slotting them now that they're fixed.
I also spend *a lot* of my in-game time derping around and not fighting anything at all, so my perspective is different than people who are constantly queuing up for stuff. And I still don't like having to monitor things to replace on a short schedule.
@asterdahl if the main reward is a new set which is already not desired because of the continuous need of refining...can you at least make us able to unslot reinforcement kits? its getting really tiresome to craft reinforcements for 250k+ ADs each one each mod. thats a 1M ADs
what about introducing a new gear slot, ear ring for example and those can only drop in fangbreaker? or what about a vendor at the end of the dungeon which trades your unwanted orange rings for one different? like he gives you 3 choices everytime..you eventually have to run old content to get a ring and new content multiple times to get the right offer from this vendor
Comments
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
Guaranteed drops (all of the following):
1 Epic Unbound Campaign Voucher of the Player's Choice
1 Black Opal
1 Rank 8 Enchant of Any Single Stat (not including Bonding)
1 Rank 8 Dual Statted/Triple Statted Enchant (Randomly Selected by Type)
Sufficient Relics to Make up for Time of Run in Degrading Armor
50% Drop (two of the following):
+4 Ring (unbound)
Salvage Worth 8-10k AD
1 Black Opal
1 Rank 9 Enchant of Any Type (not including Bonding)
1 Epic Unbound Campaign Voucher (randomly given)
25-33% Drops (one of the following):
A second +4 Ring (bound)
5 Pres Wards
1 Blood Ruby
1 Rank 8 Bonding Runestone
5-10% Drop (one of the following):
+5 Legendary Ring of choice (unbound)
Coalescent Ward
1 Brilliant Diamond
1 Rank 9 Bonding Runestone
1% Drops (one of the following):
Epic Mount
Epic Companion
Legendary Artifact
1 Rank 10 Enchant of Any type
<1% Drops (one of the following):
Legendary Mount
Guild--And the Imaginary Friends
To everybody expecting to get paid for their time. Are you here to have fun or get paid?
If you are looking for a job, you are in the wrong place.
If you are here to play a game, with loot as a bonus. Then the loot tables are fine.
With a good pug I can make close to and usually over 100k in around an hour on a single toon in CN.
I suggest playing for the fun of it. Instead of expecting to get paid to play.
I can play SuperMario for fun, finish it and then start another title. If you don't have incentives to run and farm FBI, then you're right: keep on running CN forever.
PS: There's a slight contraddiction in your post: it seems that you have fun by getting paid 100k/hour at CN...
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
CN only pays that much with RNG based rewards btw, in fact mod 10, cn gets a loot hit. Otherwise you could EASILY run 5-6 or more CNS in a row and get nothing but one blue +3 ring. Even if you do 5 straight in a hour time , but earn nothing more then the AD on the first two runs and 5 + blue rings, in the new mod.. this is worht a whopping 22k for your hours time.
And yes.. IVE run up to ten CNs in a row without a purple drop.
Its not likely but it can happen.
"pay me or I'm not playing"
It used to be that playing WAS the reward. The loot was just a bonus.
balderdash. We ran them to gear up and to sell items.
BTW I dont think they have to be super high either, but they couldve added some more unique items and a guaranteed R8 for the time.
I like the idea of adding gmops and smops back into the game with this.. with random wins.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
am i strange?
MMO endgame is goal driven. You set your sights and you aim for your goal. It's the ever dangling carrot your chasing. The next better piece of equipment that will propell your character forward, gated behind obstacles you have to overcome. It doesn't matter if we are talking about Vanilla WoW, current WoW, Blade&Soul, Guild wars (1 or 2), Skyforge or any other MMORPG out there, the mechanics of player motivation stay the same: progression in power and/or prestige. Every single MMO that ignored that went the way of the Dodo.
Yes, there are exceptions. Some sandbox MMOs (like Second Life) continue an existance as 3D fetish chatrooms, but you can hardly count them as "MMORPGS" anymore. Neither can you call what its users do "playing" (by the definitions used in game theory).
But let's cut the discussion down from personal goals and let's look at the publisher side: money. You want players to spend money. For that you want to retain players. Currently, Cryptic and PWE are frantically trying to do just that with all the events and the millions of AD each of these events flood into the market each time. I can make more AD in a single of the special events than I can make in an entire year of playing NWO. But how long is that going to last? And why gate the actual AD gain (read: character progression) behind special events rather than regular content? If you want players to stay, you need to incentivize them to play. That means provide tangible advancement for their character through ordinary means. If you don't do that, the players will leave. That's a snowball effect, mind you. The moment you drop below the critical threshhold (and we are very close to that), the game will die out.
Cryptic and PWE can give hardly a Kitten about it, seeing the numbers of players on XBox 1 and PS4, but you, as a PC player will suffer from it.
So, rather than portraying a holier than though attitude, think about the consequences.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
I would also do a run for the chance to pick up new clothing, or perhaps new single colour dye bottles (in packs of 4).
After you've finished the campaign, merely maintaining your empowerment even for long periods of play should not be onerous. When you have the equipment on live and have gotten a feel for how much work it is to maintain, please continue to send your feedback. We're aware that releasing a new set of armor with a competitive item level will reduce the demand for masterwork items, thereby lowering their market value. However, this will not be an overnight adjustment. The market will be affected by speculation as M10 approaches and goes live, however, relic armor will take time to obtain, and Fangbreaker will not be immediately accessible to every player. We'll continue to watch the masterwork market. What's more important to us is that the investment players have made in masterwork is not invalidated overnight. An MMORPG is a complex ecosystem of various interacting economies. Sometimes changes need to be swift and decisive and sometimes a slower hand is required. We'd like to build trust that if we introduce a system with a large investment like masterwork that said investment will carry over into future endeavors, or at the very least that the return will decay at a somewhat predictable rate.
Obviously the return on investment with a system like masterwork is highest at the start. If you're starting masterwork now (on the PC at least) hopefully it is for personal achievement, because you are happy with the current investment requirements vs. the rate of decay of prices, or because you are hedging that your progress will be worthwhile in the future.
We want players to trust that their investment in a given system means something. This is why we made changes like always double refinement for artifact weapons. Not every investment will always carry forward directly or 1:1, but while relic armor provides some competition with masterwork for the most elite, sellable BoE equipment would provide steep competition across the spectrum.
Imo this discussion has provided a sound evidence of what many players would like to receive from this dungeon: many good ideas were proposed and now it's up to the devs team.
@asterdahl: I really appreciate that, for the first time, you want to discuss loots and rewards with the players regardless I (we) agree with you or not. I hope this "experiment" can be repeated in the future. Your analytics will tell if the choices you're implementing are the right one or not.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
And what about over-geared players leave instance the moment they see minimum IL players on the group that die repeatedly? It's already hard enough to go beyond 2.5k let alone 3.1k requirement. Oh right. It's not a job for over-geared players to carry scrubs like me to complete a dungeon, especially PUGs. They won't even accept the queue that is ongoing.
Let me ask you this.
What is your expected gameplay for a fresh and not a whale player in Mod 10 to get 3.1k IL?
And what was the expected gameplay for a fresh and not a whale player in Mod 5 to get 3.1k IL?
i think it should be like this:
Guaranteed drops (all of the following):
1 Epic Unbound Campaign Voucher of the Player's Choice
Salvage Worth 5-8k AD
Sufficient Relics to Make up for Time of Run in Degrading Armor
50% Drop (one of the following):
+4 Ring of choice (unbound)
1 Black Opal
1 Rank 9 Enchant of Any Type (one stat and not including runestones)
10% Drop (one of the following):
5 Pres Wards
1 Rank 7 Bonding Runestone
5% Drop
+5 Legendary Ring of choice (unbound)
1% Drops (one of the following):
Epic Companion
Legendary Artifact
1 Rank 10 Enchant of Any type
Guaranteed drops (all of the following):
1 Epic Unbound Campaign Voucher of the Player's Choice
1 Black Opal
1 Rank 8 Enchant of Any Single Stat (not including Bonding)
1 Rank 8 Dual Statted/Triple Statted Enchant (Randomly Selected by Type)
Sufficient Relics to Make up for Time of Run in Degrading Armor
50% Drop (two of the following):
+4 Ring (unbound)
Salvage Worth 8-10k AD
1 Black Opal
1 Rank 9 Enchant of Any Type (not including Bonding)
1 Epic Unbound Campaign Voucher (randomly given)
25-33% Drops (one of the following):
A second +4 Ring (bound)
5 Pres Wards
1 Blood Ruby
1 Rank 8 Bonding Runestone
5-10% Drop (one of the following):
+5 Legendary Ring of choice (unbound)
Coalescent Ward
1 Brilliant Diamond
1 Rank 9 Bonding Runestone
1% Drops (one of the following):
Epic Mount
Epic Companion
Legendary Artifact
1 Rank 10 Enchant of Any type
<1% Drops (one of the following):
Legendary Mount
</blockquote>
Posts like this game breaking fantasy don't help us get better rewards from dungeons...
Also, what's up with the terrible quote system?
Another note on loot and item level:
You need to rework the way you determine item level. The way it is currently set up, it is wildly inconsistent. Using my GWF as an example:
My elemental Alliance Assault Sallet (iL 132) provides me with 2.488 useable stats plus 9K HP
My Rank 139 Sigil of the Controller (iL 130) provides me with 1,858 useable stats plus 567 points of control resist no one needs.
The same Sigil of the controller about 800K AD later at rank 140 (iL 160) provides me with 2,000 useable stats and 600 points of control resist. That's 142 stats more for a whopping 30 IL and still less total useable stats than the iL 132 sallet.
At the same time,
My chest at iL 140 (dragonflight) provides me with 3,612 useable stats and 21K HP
My legs at iL 140 (dragonflight) provide me with 2,351 useable stats and 11K HP
How can you rank them as the same iL?
The same holds true for every other comparison, be it enchantment ranks, armor and weapon enchantments in general or the complete neglect of factoring in companions, mount bonuses or insignias.
As it stand right now, iL is not an accurate measure of performance and as such your mileage will vary wildly in regards to content and progression speed. You need to streamline the entire model if you want to use it as a reliable basis. Unless you do that at least internally as part of your design process, your time making challenging content will be largely wasted, as players simply won't partake in it. The rewards are just not good enough not to get the same or even more rewards grinding easier content.
And I say adding this, on top of the current rewards, not making this the sole reward. Something like:
1st boss --> 60% change at peridot; 30% chance at aquamarine; 10% chance at sapphire;
2nd boss --> 30% chance at peridot; 60% chance at aquamarine; 10% chance at sapphire;
3rd boss --> 60% chance at aquamarie, 30% chance at sapphire; 10% chance at black opal;
These chance values and the stone types are somewhat arbitrary and would probably need some adjustment,
also this system could be implemented into all dungeons, with diferent chances and diferent kinds of
RP stones matching the dungeon type (T1, T2, T3).
It's a small change, not "economy breaking" imho, and would make those consecutive dungeon farming runs
feel more rewarding because at least we would see the RP stones' stacks begging bigger.
And I also think this empowering mechanic is going to be dead on arrival. The people I've talked to said they'll just live with the gear as is, and not worry about the modest stat gains. Unless it's required for this dungeon or something else. No one wants to farm dailies for a two hour boost. Just look at how many people you see using overload enchants now that they fixed the timers haha
Devs please take heed!
In Mod 3 you needed 20% Black Ice Resistance to enter the Kessell skirmish, but people mostly switched to their old gear inside because it was superior. I don't think it's going to be that easy with FBI. You are going to need a decent Everfrost % to run it.
I like that you bring up Overload Enchantments, because those came to my mind as well as timer mechanic that didn't really work out that great (next to Mod 3 *cough cough*).
I also spend *a lot* of my in-game time derping around and not fighting anything at all, so my perspective is different than people who are constantly queuing up for stuff. And I still don't like having to monitor things to replace on a short schedule.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
thats a 1M ADs
what about introducing a new gear slot, ear ring for example and those can only drop in fangbreaker? or what about a vendor at the end of the dungeon which trades your unwanted orange rings for one different? like he gives you 3 choices everytime..you eventually have to run old content to get a ring and new content multiple times to get the right offer from this vendor