PB is half as effective in pvp? Make PB only apply to first hit of PG?
i would say a ICD or a LIMITER to not go over 10k damage would help alot.. in like 2 minutes of fightin a HR i got 200proccs of PB, varries from 1k to 14k .
i dont think there is a point in makin it be less effective, because that 25% value can be a different number in the future.
Limiting the damage to not go more tahn 10k and puttin a ICD of 1-2s would be the wisest choice, what would u say ?
i say no, i spent all today in preview testing and its far more balanced than what you are saying. cant kill dcs, good fights vs GFs and GWF . ask @whitespicyrice, me hero and ripper fought vs his gwf.
PB is half as effective in pvp? Make PB only apply to first hit of PG?
i would say a ICD or a LIMITER to not go over 10k damage would help alot.. in like 2 minutes of fightin a HR i got 200proccs of PB, varries from 1k to 14k .
i dont think there is a point in makin it be less effective, because that 25% value can be a different number in the future.
Limiting the damage to not go more tahn 10k and puttin a ICD of 1-2s would be the wisest choice, what would u say ?
That idea murders it for PVE.
I also wonder if they plan to increase the Flurry duration with a damage cut.
But PG is the biggest offender for PVP with multi proc PB ticks. Like a mini AOE SE.
I hate PG with a passion. One of the most lazy skills to use that also hits hard. And skill oriented powers like Shard of Endless Avalanche were nerfed to oblivion. Even the SW doesn't have CQC powers that are this good. Hadar's Tap on the Shoulder.
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feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
lol, we are back to exactly what I 1st thought, Plant Growth is over powered... It should have been nerfed and the other Encounter/Daily/At-Will Powers given substantial boosts. You can tell it is over powered as a stupidly high number of people equip it.
It is almost like CoA/PG is a mod 11 power and all our other Encounter/Daily/At-Will Powers are Mod 6-8, damage wise.
I'd say PG is the ONLY mod 6 encounter we have (sort of excepting Longstrider's/Gushing Wound, which remains all but useless in pvp because of stupidly long animation) while the rest are back at mod 3.
There's no reason to nerf it. If you want variety in rotations, ask for other powers to be buffed, not for our one useful damage dealing ability to be nerfed.
Glad to see combat HR is back. At least we can see all 3 path clearly now. Archer being a range heavy hitter, combat for his piercing burst dmg and high deflect (back to mod 4 i suppose) & trapper being fast encounter and CC spamming.
Been in preview all day combat nice for pvp trapper better for pve did have fun respect to combat piercing nice boost but eoa gf step in One Rotate bis combat like that combat not over powered but gf 4.3il vs combat hr All bis 170k hp gone in 10 seconds with fox and fg I lasted a little longer but could not damage him he was blocking me and I lost due to could not keep up enough encounters due to cooldowns but that's just me with new build may be able to find a better rotation
I've just made another 4 copys of my 2.8 IL HR after the last nigth changes and did Bigrin tombs with combatlog for each set up:
1) HR Archer-Pathfinder: This toon deals a massive amount of damage at range, when the mob group was small enough or they were at least packed to get them even more packed with cordon I could deal with them before they were able to reach me. The new aim-shot act as another encounter, but a much better one because it allow you to use the others faster while dealing a lot of damage. Now, once the mob get close to you the history is completly different and then is like Plant growth, shift and more cordon because the Archer is weak as a kitten tied up in the midle of pack of hungry wolfs, you have to run or you die. If they manage to CC you then you have no defense, I guess thats very representative of what archers has been on the course of the history but it does get annoying.
2) HR Combat-Stormwarden: I never use Combat so I'm kinda new. I've use this rotation first cordon (to get the first shot), then split the sky (rigth in front me), then fox shift to deflect the first hits and then I've used the inverse order, first fox(to get in the middle) then throw caution (to increase my damage) and the plant growth with the damage buffed. If anything remain alive CTG with ocational more Fox shift buff when it was out of CD and shifting to reduce CDs of the melee encounters and avoid red zones. That rotation worked extremly well and I have to say that the damage or survability didnt feel low, but nothing to brag about. I did died once because I got 3 zombies exploding at same time and I was controled so I couldnt to shift away.
3) HR Trapper-Stormwarden: First I wasnt full trapper, I've put 15 points on combat to get the 15% damage increase on encounters. I did the classic cordon+hindering+constricting and it same way that works perfect on the Live still work perfect on the preview.
4)HR Full trapper-Pathfinder: Similar to the stormwarden version it worked flawsly. I didn't noticed that my encounters damage was decreased while playing it, but the ACT log showed that the Plant Growth did more damage than my thorned roots in the case of the stormwarden with 15 points on combat and that my thorned root did about the same damage than the PG with a full trapper feated toon.
After trying them a bit my conclusions are, if you are doing a dungeon and you have a tank to keep the mobs out of you I believe that the most damage dealing build is going to be the Archer (using the rigth class features and powers). If you are the classic solo player that want the best balance on survability AND damage then the trapper remains as the best option. The combat path if I compare it on PVE is going to have less damage than the archer and trapper, but according to my log the % of damage provided by piercing blades is really large even on PVE, so on PVP probably is going to be extremly annoying bypassing the defences.
With so little time I think the devs did a very good job giving a pourpose for each path (Archer=Dungeon/party play, Trapper=solo play, Combat=PVP). Now I'm not completly sure if the buffs were high enough to actually give a chance to appear on the "paingiver" vs other DPS classes (Combat path is going to remain extremly far from GWFs), but then I guess is time to wait and see how the devs continue doing the balance to other classes.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
PB is half as effective in pvp? Make PB only apply to first hit of PG?
i would say a ICD or a LIMITER to not go over 10k damage would help alot.. in like 2 minutes of fightin a HR i got 200proccs of PB, varries from 1k to 14k .
i dont think there is a point in makin it be less effective, because that 25% value can be a different number in the future.
Limiting the damage to not go more tahn 10k and puttin a ICD of 1-2s would be the wisest choice, what would u say ?
That idea murders it for PVE.
I also wonder if they plan to increase the Flurry duration with a damage cut.
But PG is the biggest offender for PVP with multi proc PB ticks. Like a mini AOE SE.
I hate PG with a passion. One of the most lazy skills to use that also hits hard. And skill oriented powers like Shard of Endless Avalanche were nerfed to oblivion. Even the SW doesn't have CQC powers that are this good. Hadar's Tap on the Shoulder.
i dont care about Plant Growth honestly, the problem is with the Piercing Blades , is the piercing damage based of the ( damage) which ticks continuasly, there is no limit , in a group party all those HR combos will hit harder , because buffs from other classes, so it goes without sayin that the piercing damage will be stronger since the initial hit in the (DAMAGE ) will be HIGHER, thats why there should be a LIMITER for PVP (lets not have combat pve to suffer) that limits the damage and also a smal ICD, in rest i dont see it being OP anymore, but still resonable.
so having a Combat HR in your party will be useless to clear everyone in a OVERPOWERED manner..
- Set up a limit for PB to hit it should be from 0- 10.000, it shouldn't go over 10.000 , and put a Internal cooldown on it of 2s-4s .
Or else we replaced GFs with a bigger nuisance.
here i was thinkin that next classes that could get to be tonned down/adjusted class review were the GWF, TR and DC , but if you let the combat HR go as it is, the purpose of the class review FAILED.
Where are you getting this PB getting overbuffed from party buffs at?
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
PB is half as effective in pvp? Make PB only apply to first hit of PG?
i would say a ICD or a LIMITER to not go over 10k damage would help alot.. in like 2 minutes of fightin a HR i got 200proccs of PB, varries from 1k to 14k .
i dont think there is a point in makin it be less effective, because that 25% value can be a different number in the future.
Limiting the damage to not go more tahn 10k and puttin a ICD of 1-2s would be the wisest choice, what would u say ?
That idea murders it for PVE.
I also wonder if they plan to increase the Flurry duration with a damage cut.
But PG is the biggest offender for PVP with multi proc PB ticks. Like a mini AOE SE.
I hate PG with a passion. One of the most lazy skills to use that also hits hard. And skill oriented powers like Shard of Endless Avalanche were nerfed to oblivion. Even the SW doesn't have CQC powers that are this good. Hadar's Tap on the Shoulder.
i dont care about Plant Growth honestly, the problem is with the Piercing Blades , is the piercing damage based of the ( damage) which ticks continuasly, there is no limit , in a group party all those HR combos will hit harder , because buffs from other classes, so it goes without sayin that the piercing damage will be stronger since the initial hit in the (DAMAGE ) will be HIGHER, thats why there should be a LIMITER for PVP (lets not have combat pve to suffer) that limits the damage and also a smal ICD, in rest i dont see it being OP anymore, but still resonable.
so having a Combat HR in your party will be useless to clear everyone in a OVERPOWERED manner..
- Set up a limit for PB to hit it should be from 0- 10.000, it shouldn't go over 10.000 , and put a Internal cooldown on it of 2s-4s .
Or else we replaced GFs with a bigger nuisance.
here i was thinkin that next classes that could get to be tonned down/adjusted class review were the GWF, TR and DC , but if you let the combat HR go as it is, the purpose of the class review FAILED.
Where are you getting this PB getting overbuffed from party buffs at?
the PB is not gettin buffed directly (idk if it does) but it's enough for HR atwills/encounters/dailies to get buffed from a Devoted cleric or a ITF from a GF and these results in PB hit harder.
Getting buffs, hitting harder. Isn't that the whole point? Every class does that
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
HR should be doing massive damage. Only the best ones on live are great, and that is only due to bugs that are being fixed. I did not hear or read anywhere that the goal of class balance was to nerf everybody's DPS.
Well I'll certainly be glad I won't need to spam longstrider plant growth steel breeze nonsense anymore.
How much DPS is the question. Compared to archery. Combat could probably compete in AoE add infested runs, but the risk of being up in there and being slow as molasses makes up for it. It'll still stand zero chance of competing with archery as an undisputed boss killer so be at least excel in one role which is mopping up adds.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
It's not related to Hunters but I see Bronzewood ench was fixed so. BUG: Transcendent Terror Enchantment doesn't reduce Power as it described. Moreover it doesn't root targets.
Trans Terror most certainly roots targets in PvE, at least when I'm using it on my CW. It plays no rooting animation, but for example in the Arcane Reservoir, it can stop a Thorn running to light a barrel dead in its tracks without my having applied a separate freeze or stun (AoE from casting Conduit on the Cyclops).
PB is half as effective in pvp? Make PB only apply to first hit of PG?
i would say a ICD or a LIMITER to not go over 10k damage would help alot.. in like 2 minutes of fightin a HR i got 200proccs of PB, varries from 1k to 14k .
i dont think there is a point in makin it be less effective, because that 25% value can be a different number in the future.
Limiting the damage to not go more tahn 10k and puttin a ICD of 1-2s would be the wisest choice, what would u say ?
That idea murders it for PVE.
I also wonder if they plan to increase the Flurry duration with a damage cut.
But PG is the biggest offender for PVP with multi proc PB ticks. Like a mini AOE SE.
I hate PG with a passion. One of the most lazy skills to use that also hits hard. And skill oriented powers like Shard of Endless Avalanche were nerfed to oblivion. Even the SW doesn't have CQC powers that are this good. Hadar's Tap on the Shoulder.
i dont care about Plant Growth honestly, the problem is with the Piercing Blades , is the piercing damage based of the ( damage) which ticks continuasly, there is no limit , in a group party all those HR combos will hit harder , because buffs from other classes, so it goes without sayin that the piercing damage will be stronger since the initial hit in the (DAMAGE ) will be HIGHER, thats why there should be a LIMITER for PVP (lets not have combat pve to suffer) that limits the damage and also a smal ICD, in rest i dont see it being OP anymore, but still resonable.
so having a Combat HR in your party will be useless to clear everyone in a OVERPOWERED manner..
- Set up a limit for PB to hit it should be from 0- 10.000, it shouldn't go over 10.000 , and put a Internal cooldown on it of 2s-4s .
Or else we replaced GFs with a bigger nuisance.
here i was thinkin that next classes that could get to be tonned down/adjusted class review were the GWF, TR and DC , but if you let the combat HR go as it is, the purpose of the class review FAILED.
Where are you getting this PB getting overbuffed from party buffs at?
the PB is not gettin buffed directly (idk if it does) but it's enough for HR atwills/encounters/dailies to get buffed from a Devoted cleric or a ITF from a GF and these results in PB hit harder.
Getting buffs, hitting harder. Isn't that the whole point? Every class does that
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Player 29 deals 1998 (24976) Physical Damage to you with Plant Growth.
[Combat (Self)] Player 29 deals 12488 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
the 12.488 is the half of the plant growth , now imagine Plant growth hiting harder , because the buffs from the group, now that wouldn't be a problem, the issue is that piercing damage will be higher, so if you have lets say
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Player 29 deals 20000 (120000) Physical Damage to you with Plant Growth.
[Combat (Self)] Player 29 deals 60000 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
you see the possibilities of being overpowered?
Limiting it only in PvP to never go beyond 10.000 damage and have a 2s ICD will not ruin the HR.
The way the damage for combat Hunter Ranger works on PTR is the exactly thing that we didnt wished for the HR from the class review.
All you mentioned was PG. Just have PB apply to PG on first tick. No need to nerf it to oblivion.
Alright, finally getting this out of the way. Time to dump an array diff single-target dummy tests here. Just gonna list the powers used and post links to the ACT caps, for brevity's sake. Most rotations (save some of Archer's) aren't very rigid and I do flub things here and there, but tests are close to 4 mins each to reduce player error. All powers listed are at rank 4, and all HRs are ~2.65k ilvl using a goat augment.
NOTE: CoA and Bear Trap do NOT trigger on test dummies! So, their dps is excluded from any recorded test w/ ACT. (for lessons on triggering, I suggest CoA and Bear Trap go visit Tumblr)
= TRAPPER - Pathfinder (AotS + Crushing Roots) =
Test 1: Hindering, Constricting, CoA/PG, Slasher's + Disruptive, Aimed Shot/Strike filler: http://oi65.tinypic.com/k355z6.jpg 27.2k dps (+ ???dps from CoA)
- So, Aimed Shot leaves Rapid Shot in the dust for Archers now. Target-required Gushing Wound seems to cause you to port behind smaller targets (good for flanking, bad for messing w/ camera orientation), and for some reason it was procing my Imperial set bonus like crazy. Combat is all over the place depending on the encounters chosen (very strong to 'eh'). And Trappers have a few relatively strong single-target options.
Hope that helped gauge things a bit. I'll try to throw in some quick tests from other classes for more refs.
lol, we are back to exactly what I 1st thought, Plant Growth is over powered... It should have been nerfed and the other Encounter/Daily/At-Will Powers given substantial boosts. You can tell it is over powered as a stupidly high number of people equip it.
It is almost like CoA/PG is a mod 11 power and all our other Encounter/Daily/At-Will Powers are Mod 6-8, damage wise.
I'd say PG is the ONLY mod 6 encounter we have (sort of excepting Longstrider's/Gushing Wound, which remains all but useless in pvp because of stupidly long animation) while the rest are back at mod 3.
There's no reason to nerf it. If you want variety in rotations, ask for other powers to be buffed, not for our one useful damage dealing ability to be nerfed.
Errr I did ask for buffs to powers... in that exact sentence you just quoted from me. All I said was what SHOULD have happened... makes no difference now as what I think should have happened and what has happened are 2 completely different things.
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Less it is BiS with 70%+ deflect I don't really see how a combat HR can possibly dominate a pvp match. A lot of HAMSTER simply out run it making getting off melee attacks more difficult. Get in chip damage with encounters, but they still keep their distance. Combat is still squishy as hell when it doesn't deflect hits.
It's a really slow melee attacker who depends on encounters for gap closers. Piercing damage to sneak in the DPS, but it's not a GWF who can shrug off CC and be in your face in a heart beat. It can't really spam encounters frequently enough to really melt anything. Ya, Flurry, but you know when the HR gets it, as soon as he uses an encounter on you. All you do is keep off him for a couple seconds and that danger is immediately dealt with. Almost every class can avoid this with a dodge, or by simply moving much faster.
I really wondered why archery wasn't the one who got piercing damage, aside from the longshot. It needs all the burst it can get before it gets CC'd to death.
@peri87 if you don't have at least 70% deflect you're doing the wrong thing as combat. I have zero deflect gear and no deflect boons and 85% deflect is very achievable.
Also @ghoulz66 the change to piercing blades that went live this patch is actually a huge nerf to pve combat, since a lot of buffs and debuffs are the post mitigation damage, so you can see a loss as big as 50% damage now.
... I'll try to throw in some quick tests from other classes for more refs.
Whelp, don't get ur hopes up too high I suppose, rofl. Here's some quick single-target parses of some of my other toons; all similar ilvl, goat augment:
- Exec/MI TR: Duelist's Flurry spam, stealth + Wicked Reminder for Shadow of Demise, Lurker's Assault: http://oi65.tinypic.com/fbvrps.jpg 62.2k dps (yuup..)
Well, many HR setups could hang w/ the 'dps-adin' and the firelock (latter not being able to realize Killing/Murderous Flames and Executioner's Gift fully), at least :x
I guess HRs in general still have decent AoE (PG/CoA, mostly), Thorned Roots, and stuff like Hawkeye or Longstrider's.
Here, HR's, let my Sentinel GWF's single-target 'dps' cheer you up!: 16k dps. The same class that's responsible for the 56k dps parse above. Yay, NW balance!
Piercing Blades is getting 50% of the PRE-mitigated damage...
For example: I hit a critical on a Target Dummy with Plant Growth ( which base damage is about 30-35k ) to be about 50k crit then that will be 25k damage to players. Regardless to if you mitigate the Plant Growth or deflect it...the Pre-Mitigated 50% damage applies to you.
Okay so the problem here is NOT Piercing Blades, it's the high damage base power of the encounter that you used it with.
Another example: I used fox shift ( 5-6k base damage ) to hit a critical hit of 10-15k ( mitigated in pvp to about 5k on the player) then Piercing Blades will hit about 5k piercing damage.
The problem here is Plant Growth. It is our ONLY highest base damage encounter towards melee stance that we have. If they were to completely nerf Piercing Blades then that would make Combat Tree completely useless. They made this change for a reason, and reducing the damage towards plant growth would be the only best option.
In my experience of testing this "Over Powered" HR build, it's only plant growth that is making the Piercing Blades so powerful.
The other Melee Encounters will do some damage...but not as enough burst as Plant Growth.
I hope you, and the Developers, understand this, thank you.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Piercing Blades is getting 50% of the PRE-mitigated damage...
For example: I hit a critical on a Target Dummy with Plant Growth ( which base damage is about 30-35k ) to be about 50k crit then that will be 25k damage to players. Regardless to if you mitigate the Plant Growth or deflect it...the Pre-Mitigated 50% damage applies to you.
Okay so the problem here is NOT Piercing Blades, it's the high damage base power of the encounter that you used it with.
Another example: I used fox shift ( 5-6k base damage ) to hit a critical hit of 10-15k ( mitigated in pvp to about 5k on the player) then Piercing Blades will hit about 5k piercing damage.
The problem here is Plant Growth. It is our ONLY highest base damage encounter towards melee stance that we have. If they were to completely nerf Piercing Blades then that would make Combat Tree completely useless. They made this change for a reason, and reducing the damage towards plant growth would be the only best option.
In my experience of testing this "Over Powered" HR build, it's only plant growth that is making the Piercing Blades so powerful.
The other Melee Encounters will do some damage...but not as enough burst as Plant Growth.
I hope you, and the Developers, understand this, thank you.
Piercing Blades is getting 50% of the PRE-mitigated damage...
For example: I hit a critical on a Target Dummy with Plant Growth ( which base damage is about 30-35k ) to be about 50k crit then that will be 25k damage to players. Regardless to if you mitigate the Plant Growth or deflect it...the Pre-Mitigated 50% damage applies to you.
Okay so the problem here is NOT Piercing Blades, it's the high damage base power of the encounter that you used it with.
Another example: I used fox shift ( 5-6k base damage ) to hit a critical hit of 10-15k ( mitigated in pvp to about 5k on the player) then Piercing Blades will hit about 5k piercing damage.
The problem here is Plant Growth. It is our ONLY highest base damage encounter towards melee stance that we have. If they were to completely nerf Piercing Blades then that would make Combat Tree completely useless. They made this change for a reason, and reducing the damage towards plant growth would be the only best option.
In my experience of testing this "Over Powered" HR build, it's only plant growth that is making the Piercing Blades so powerful.
The other Melee Encounters will do some damage...but not as enough burst as Plant Growth.
I hope you, and the Developers, understand this, thank you.
PB applies to only first tick of damage from PG.
Issue solved.
That could work, too, but...
You still have to look into account that there's buffs from DCs and GFs so even that one tick of damage can do about 40-50k with the correct build and buffs.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Piercing Blades is getting 50% of the PRE-mitigated damage...
For example: I hit a critical on a Target Dummy with Plant Growth ( which base damage is about 30-35k ) to be about 50k crit then that will be 25k damage to players. Regardless to if you mitigate the Plant Growth or deflect it...the Pre-Mitigated 50% damage applies to you.
Okay so the problem here is NOT Piercing Blades, it's the high damage base power of the encounter that you used it with.
Another example: I used fox shift ( 5-6k base damage ) to hit a critical hit of 10-15k ( mitigated in pvp to about 5k on the player) then Piercing Blades will hit about 5k piercing damage.
The problem here is Plant Growth. It is our ONLY highest base damage encounter towards melee stance that we have. If they were to completely nerf Piercing Blades then that would make Combat Tree completely useless. They made this change for a reason, and reducing the damage towards plant growth would be the only best option.
In my experience of testing this "Over Powered" HR build, it's only plant growth that is making the Piercing Blades so powerful.
The other Melee Encounters will do some damage...but not as enough burst as Plant Growth.
I hope you, and the Developers, understand this, thank you.
PB applies to only first tick of damage from PG.
Issue solved.
That could work, too, but...
You still have to look into account that there's buffs from DCs and GFs so even that one tick of damage can do about 40-50k with the correct build and buffs.
Seriously if this has to do with pvp, the same thing can happen with TRs any pretty much everything else. PvP is hardly about party buffs and more about divide and conquer.
You realize how insane this sounds? A group would have to be pretty choreographed to waste a slot on PG, JUST to try and time something like this off.
So we got that one covered hopefully . Tested it today, combat i mean, dang it had some fierce melting towards mobs .
Good that the major uber burst got prolly solved, the mobs were melting way too fast, like 3 times faster than with my Trapper build and i was only using my melee stance for 5 mob squads. With the combat build i took only the first feat from trapper tree for speed. My health ran around 60%-90% on each mob encounter, thought i was melting, but survivability was good, i was just standing surrounded by the mobs and hacking away with melee encounters and flurry. But if i didnt move i wouldve got myself killed despite the massive dps. Though i build meself for survivability.
Well if the GF and DC get the "proper" fixes then its just dependent on party composititon to kick HAMSTER like any other DPS toon, so i dont think its gonna be a serious problem, but if it shows to be still uber, maybe a little recheck on the power interactions might be in order. Well see. But i dont think its an OP build.
To only proc the first tick off PG, should lower the burst from totally HAMSTER up things on the Combat HR tree. I loved it BTW, yeah it was a total meltdown but it gave a good perspective where the HR could be with all its builds, gotta go and play with the Archer a bit, im getting pumped up here, cos finally we may actually have all 3 trees/hybrids viable for the players to use and share their new found metas and stuff, ooh yeah.
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cant kill dcs, good fights vs GFs and GWF . ask @whitespicyrice, me hero and ripper fought vs his gwf.
I also wonder if they plan to increase the Flurry duration with a damage cut.
But PG is the biggest offender for PVP with multi proc PB ticks. Like a mini AOE SE.
I hate PG with a passion. One of the most lazy skills to use that also hits hard. And skill oriented powers like Shard of Endless Avalanche were nerfed to oblivion. Even the SW doesn't have CQC powers that are this good. Hadar's Tap on the Shoulder.
There's no reason to nerf it. If you want variety in rotations, ask for other powers to be buffed, not for our one useful damage dealing ability to be nerfed.
1) HR Archer-Pathfinder: This toon deals a massive amount of damage at range, when the mob group was small enough or they were at least packed to get them even more packed with cordon I could deal with them before they were able to reach me. The new aim-shot act as another encounter, but a much better one because it allow you to use the others faster while dealing a lot of damage. Now, once the mob get close to you the history is completly different and then is like Plant growth, shift and more cordon because the Archer is weak as a kitten tied up in the midle of pack of hungry wolfs, you have to run or you die. If they manage to CC you then you have no defense, I guess thats very representative of what archers has been on the course of the history but it does get annoying.
2) HR Combat-Stormwarden: I never use Combat so I'm kinda new. I've use this rotation first cordon (to get the first shot), then split the sky (rigth in front me), then fox shift to deflect the first hits and then I've used the inverse order, first fox(to get in the middle) then throw caution (to increase my damage) and the plant growth with the damage buffed. If anything remain alive CTG with ocational more Fox shift buff when it was out of CD and shifting to reduce CDs of the melee encounters and avoid red zones. That rotation worked extremly well and I have to say that the damage or survability didnt feel low, but nothing to brag about. I did died once because I got 3 zombies exploding at same time and I was controled so I couldnt to shift away.
3) HR Trapper-Stormwarden: First I wasnt full trapper, I've put 15 points on combat to get the 15% damage increase on encounters. I did the classic cordon+hindering+constricting and it same way that works perfect on the Live still work perfect on the preview.
4)HR Full trapper-Pathfinder: Similar to the stormwarden version it worked flawsly. I didn't noticed that my encounters damage was decreased while playing it, but the ACT log showed that the Plant Growth did more damage than my thorned roots in the case of the stormwarden with 15 points on combat and that my thorned root did about the same damage than the PG with a full trapper feated toon.
After trying them a bit my conclusions are, if you are doing a dungeon and you have a tank to keep the mobs out of you I believe that the most damage dealing build is going to be the Archer (using the rigth class features and powers). If you are the classic solo player that want the best balance on survability AND damage then the trapper remains as the best option. The combat path if I compare it on PVE is going to have less damage than the archer and trapper, but according to my log the % of damage provided by piercing blades is really large even on PVE, so on PVP probably is going to be extremly annoying bypassing the defences.
With so little time I think the devs did a very good job giving a pourpose for each path (Archer=Dungeon/party play, Trapper=solo play, Combat=PVP). Now I'm not completly sure if the buffs were high enough to actually give a chance to appear on the "paingiver" vs other DPS classes (Combat path is going to remain extremly far from GWFs), but then I guess is time to wait and see how the devs continue doing the balance to other classes.
Getting buffs, hitting harder. Isn't that the whole point? Every class does that
How much DPS is the question. Compared to archery. Combat could probably compete in AoE add infested runs, but the risk of being up in there and being slow as molasses makes up for it. It'll still stand zero chance of competing with archery as an undisputed boss killer so be at least excel in one role which is mopping up adds.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
NOTE: CoA and Bear Trap do NOT trigger on test dummies! So, their dps is excluded from any recorded test w/ ACT.
(for lessons on triggering, I suggest CoA and Bear Trap go visit Tumblr)
= TRAPPER - Pathfinder (AotS + Crushing Roots) =
Test 1: Hindering, Constricting, CoA/PG, Slasher's + Disruptive, Aimed Shot/Strike filler:
http://oi65.tinypic.com/k355z6.jpg
27.2k dps (+ ???dps from CoA)
Test 2: Hindering, Binding, Rain of Arrows, Slashers + Disruptive, Careful Attack:
http://oi65.tinypic.com/2rzrs6g.jpg
http://oi63.tinypic.com/6nw39v.jpg
18.5k + 7.68k (RoA) = 26.2k dps
Test 3: Hindering, Constricting, Thorn Ward, Slasher's + Disruptive, Careful Attack, Aimed Shot/Strike filler:
http://oi64.tinypic.com/14298hi.jpg
http://oi64.tinypic.com/11kxz46.jpg
22.3k + 6.28k (TWard) = 28.6k dps
Test 4: Hindering, Constricting, Maurader's Escape/Rush (aka In&Out), Slasher's, Aimed Shot filler:
http://oi63.tinypic.com/2z8c777.jpg
20.2k dps
Test 5: Hindering, Rain of Arrows, Thorn Ward, Slasher's + Disruptive, Careful Attack:
http://oi66.tinypic.com/2ailk3k.jpg
http://oi64.tinypic.com/10qkra8.jpg
http://oi66.tinypic.com/vs10u1.jpg
21.4k + 8.69k (RoA) + 5.4k (TWard) = 35.5k dps
= COMBAT - Stormwarden (Blade Storm + SSA) =
Test 1: Throw Caution, PG, Thorn Strike, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/2ahbdpg.jpg
32.2k dps
Test 2: Throw Caution, PG, Gushing Wound, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi65.tinypic.com/11b7ko4.jpg
30.7k dps
Test 3: Throw Caution, Hawkeye, Gushing Wound, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/25aqb0o.jpg
29.2k dps
Test 4: Throw Caution, Thorn Strike, Gushing Wound + Thorn Ward, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/34nr02e.jpg
http://oi65.tinypic.com/mhzyn8.jpg
33.3k + 4.64k (TWard) = 37.9k dps
Test 5: Hawkeye, PG, Thorn Strike, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/2wchfue.jpg
25.0k dps
Test 6: Boar Charge, Rain of Swords, Thorn Strike, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi67.tinypic.com/2iuumns.jpg
20.7k dps
Test 7: Boar Charge, Rain of Swords, Throw Caution, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi67.tinypic.com/1248qow.jpg
21.5k dps
Test 8: Throw Caution, Thorn Strike, Marauder's Rush, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi67.tinypic.com/11cfd5f.jpg
26.9k dps
Test 9: Fox Shift, Hindering Strike, Steel Breeze, Disruptive on cd, Aimed/Rapid Strike filler:
http://oi67.tinypic.com/2rnyp1g.jpg
18.9k dps
= ARCHERY - Stormwarden (SSA + AotLW) =
Test 1: Longstrider's, Commanding Shot, Hawk Shot, Disruptive on cd, Aimed Shot filler:
http://oi65.tinypic.com/2n8c7ew.jpg
32.6k dps
Test 2: Longstrider's, Commanding Shot, Thorn Ward, Disruptive on cd, Aimed Shot filler:
http://oi67.tinypic.com/a4xudv.jpg
http://oi63.tinypic.com/35co8kp.jpg
29.3k + 9.76k (TWard) = 39.1k dps
Test 3: Commanding Shot, Thrown Ward, Rain of Arrows, Disruptive on cd, Aimed Shot filler:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/16hky1h.jpg
http://oi67.tinypic.com/2s1agch.jpg
http://oi65.tinypic.com/n6api1.jpg
16.3k + 7.57k (RoA) + 4.04k (TWard) = 27.9k dps
Test 4: Longstrider's, Commanding Shot, Hawk Shot, Disruptive on cd, Rapid Shot filler:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/155kllc.jpg
24.2k dps
Test 5: Longstrider's, Commanding Shot, Thorn Ward, Disruptive on cd, Rapid Shot filler:
http://oi65.tinypic.com/s2ryae.jpg
http://oi66.tinypic.com/33lmn9k.jpg
21.2k + 9.96k (TWard) = 31.2k dps
-
So, Aimed Shot leaves Rapid Shot in the dust for Archers now. Target-required Gushing Wound seems to cause you to port behind smaller targets (good for flanking, bad for messing w/ camera orientation), and for some reason it was procing my Imperial set bonus like crazy. Combat is all over the place depending on the encounters chosen (very strong to 'eh'). And Trappers have a few relatively strong single-target options.
Hope that helped gauge things a bit. I'll try to throw in some quick tests from other classes for more refs.
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
now we just need to get them on par with other classes.
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
It's a really slow melee attacker who depends on encounters for gap closers. Piercing damage to sneak in the DPS, but it's not a GWF who can shrug off CC and be in your face in a heart beat. It can't really spam encounters frequently enough to really melt anything. Ya, Flurry, but you know when the HR gets it, as soon as he uses an encounter on you. All you do is keep off him for a couple seconds and that danger is immediately dealt with. Almost every class can avoid this with a dodge, or by simply moving much faster.
I really wondered why archery wasn't the one who got piercing damage, aside from the longshot. It needs all the burst it can get before it gets CC'd to death.
Also @ghoulz66 the change to piercing blades that went live this patch is actually a huge nerf to pve combat, since a lot of buffs and debuffs are the post mitigation damage, so you can see a loss as big as 50% damage now.
- Exec/MI TR: Duelist's Flurry spam, stealth + Wicked Reminder for Shadow of Demise, Lurker's Assault:
http://oi65.tinypic.com/fbvrps.jpg
62.2k dps (yuup..)
- Destroyer/SM GWF: WMS + Sure Strike, Daring Shout, Hidden Daggers, Battle Frenzy, Crescendo (ie. at-will spec):
http://oi66.tinypic.com/2lnfuib.jpg
56.2k dps
- Fury/SB SW: BotVA, WB, Soul Scorch, Immolation Spirits (SS spam spec):
http://oi68.tinypic.com/63zokw.jpg
http://oi63.tinypic.com/28tucuh.jpg
40.5k + 7.26k (ISpirits) = 47.8k dps
- Justice/Prot OP: VoE, Smite, PoP, Divine Judgement, Shielding and Radiant Strike:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/nwmrur.jpg
33.8k dps
- Thaum/MoF CW: tab CoI, Fanning the Flame, Enfeeble Ray, Disintegrate, Ice Knife, Magic Missiles:
http://oi67.tinypic.com/5un2tz.jpg
39.2k dps
- Fury/HB SW: PoP, KF, Fiery Bolt, Flames of Phleg, Eld Blast + Hellish Rebuke (firelock):
http://oi68.tinypic.com/2rmt9vs.jpg
31.9k dps
...
Well, many HR setups could hang w/ the 'dps-adin' and the firelock (latter not being able to realize Killing/Murderous Flames and Executioner's Gift fully), at least :x
I guess HRs in general still have decent AoE (PG/CoA, mostly), Thorned Roots, and stuff like Hawkeye or Longstrider's.
Here, HR's, let my Sentinel GWF's single-target 'dps' cheer you up!:
16k dps. The same class that's responsible for the 56k dps parse above. Yay, NW balance!
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Piercing Blades is getting 50% of the PRE-mitigated damage...
For example: I hit a critical on a Target Dummy with Plant Growth ( which base damage is about 30-35k ) to be about 50k crit then that will be 25k damage to players. Regardless to if you mitigate the Plant Growth or deflect it...the Pre-Mitigated 50% damage applies to you.
Okay so the problem here is NOT Piercing Blades, it's the high damage base power of the encounter that you used it with.
Another example: I used fox shift ( 5-6k base damage ) to hit a critical hit of 10-15k ( mitigated in pvp to about 5k on the player) then Piercing Blades will hit about 5k piercing damage.
The problem here is Plant Growth. It is our ONLY highest base damage encounter towards melee stance that we have. If they were to completely nerf Piercing Blades then that would make Combat Tree completely useless. They made this change for a reason, and reducing the damage towards plant growth would be the only best option.
In my experience of testing this "Over Powered" HR build, it's only plant growth that is making the Piercing Blades so powerful.
The other Melee Encounters will do some damage...but not as enough burst as Plant Growth.
I hope you, and the Developers, understand this, thank you.
Issue solved.
You still have to look into account that there's buffs from DCs and GFs so even that one tick of damage can do about 40-50k with the correct build and buffs.
You realize how insane this sounds? A group would have to be pretty choreographed to waste a slot on PG, JUST to try and time something like this off.
Good that the major uber burst got prolly solved, the mobs were melting way too fast, like 3 times faster than with my Trapper build and i was only using my melee stance for 5 mob squads.
With the combat build i took only the first feat from trapper tree for speed.
My health ran around 60%-90% on each mob encounter, thought i was melting, but survivability was good, i was just standing surrounded by the mobs and hacking away with melee encounters and flurry. But if i didnt move i wouldve got myself killed despite the massive dps. Though i build meself for survivability.
Well if the GF and DC get the "proper" fixes then its just dependent on party composititon to kick HAMSTER like any other DPS toon, so i dont think its gonna be a serious problem,
but if it shows to be still uber, maybe a little recheck on the power interactions might be in order. Well see. But i dont think its an OP build.
To only proc the first tick off PG, should lower the burst from totally HAMSTER up things on the Combat HR tree. I loved it BTW, yeah it was a total meltdown but it gave a good perspective where the HR could be with all its builds, gotta go and play with the Archer a bit, im getting pumped up here, cos finally we may actually have all 3 trees/hybrids viable for the players to use and share their new found metas and stuff, ooh yeah.
So whats next??