@peri87 if you don't have at least 70% deflect you're doing the wrong thing as combat. I have zero deflect gear and no deflect boons and 85% deflect is very achievable.
Also @ghoulz66 the change to piercing blades that went live this patch is actually a huge nerf to pve combat, since a lot of buffs and debuffs are the post mitigation damage, so you can see a loss as big as 50% damage now.
how? iget around 70 spected for it with rank 12 vicous on hand and every deflect boon and lw not doubting you just looking for help! put together combat in preview today and had on of the finest days ever in IWD doing 1 vs 1s every class
Piercing Blades is getting 50% of the PRE-mitigated damage...
For example: I hit a critical on a Target Dummy with Plant Growth ( which base damage is about 30-35k ) to be about 50k crit then that will be 25k damage to players. Regardless to if you mitigate the Plant Growth or deflect it...the Pre-Mitigated 50% damage applies to you.
Okay so the problem here is NOT Piercing Blades, it's the high damage base power of the encounter that you used it with.
Another example: I used fox shift ( 5-6k base damage ) to hit a critical hit of 10-15k ( mitigated in pvp to about 5k on the player) then Piercing Blades will hit about 5k piercing damage.
The problem here is Plant Growth. It is our ONLY highest base damage encounter towards melee stance that we have. If they were to completely nerf Piercing Blades then that would make Combat Tree completely useless. They made this change for a reason, and reducing the damage towards plant growth would be the only best option.
In my experience of testing this "Over Powered" HR build, it's only plant growth that is making the Piercing Blades so powerful.
The other Melee Encounters will do some damage...but not as enough burst as Plant Growth.
I hope you, and the Developers, understand this, thank you.
@ghoulz66 the change to piercing blades that went live this patch is actually a huge nerf to pve combat, since a lot of buffs and debuffs are the post mitigation damage, so you can see a loss as big as 50% damage now.
I have zero clue what you're talking about. I'm testing it right now and see nothing different for PVE. Any attack I do, even buffed, deals an extra 50% of it, buffed or not, from PB.
Nvm, it acts normal on dummies, PB deals roughly 1/3rd on mobs in IWD. If it did that before I really don't remember.
@ghoulz66 it's a bit hard to tell in solo unless you use a debuff enchantment such as plaguefire, its more obvious in parties where you have many debuffs going on. It takes pre mitigation damage which isn't affected by these debuffs. I think the debuff from ambush also affects this, but I'm not 100% sure on this one.
@ghoulz66 it's a bit hard to tell in solo unless you use a debuff enchantment such as plaguefire, its more obvious in parties where you have many debuffs going on. It takes pre mitigation damage which isn't affected by these debuffs. I think the debuff from ambush also affects this, but I'm not 100% sure on this one.
You tested in parties? Using Trans dread now and still notice nothing on dummies after critting with my encounters.
If they are not going to tone down GF burst/prone/dead or the TR SE dunk, I say leave it as it is.
+1
Meele Hr has extremely little survivability (laughable even) compared to especially Tr and even Gf and both put up not just more spike damage in pvp but with lower downtime.
If you can live with Gfs and Tr in pvp I am sure Hr will be a minor problem as they will die to much to be of use compared to Gf Tr Cw and even Gwfs.
From what I know combat Hr will be the only "striker" with no anti cc and with the least cc overall. You might see a few but overall the survivability in pvp will be to bad so the major part of combat Hr will be pve imo.
One encounter every 15 sec can not keep up with what's already out there so keep it realistic shall we..
0
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Trapper looks decently good for single target according to @flowcyto 's numbers. In reality you'll slot Vengeance instead of Crushing Roots on single target for 20% more damage with good positioning in dungeon.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
The SotF change for trappers seems livable, glad we were able to find a point of compromise. Didn't run any content yet on preview, but against training dummies there the changed powers I normally use seemed fine.
Can't really say anything about combat or archery because I haven't run those paths at all or recently so have no basis for comparsion. The comments I'm reading in this thread sound encouraging though, and it's nice to see people excited about being more effective in these other paths.
Would not like to see any further nerfs to plant growth. Making the cap five will be quite a noticeable reduction of power in dungeons. For those wanting further nerfs, although this encounter is more powerful than most other HR powers, it's not still particularly strong compared to the better encounters available to other classes.
Not sure where we are with hawkeye now, but am hoping that the bugs are ironed out so the stupidly high damage available from this encounter is fixed. Multi-million damage hits are funny the first couple of times but they just make content boring after that.
One change I would really like to see is a cosmetic one. Please consider removing the awkward hunched-over run from Fox Shift so we are in the normal melee stance after using this encounter. I think it looks ridiculous and can't stand it, and I would be interested to hear from others if they would miss it.
If Combat's burst really does become an issue in pvp, then I imagine they can just go the usual route of making the piercing dmg less effective vs. players (or at least, just the piercing dmg on PG, since I dun think any other encounter for Combat will have this issue). Its not something I think we can really know of yet, though, and considering pvp balance is whole diff journey in itself I'd just take a 'wait and see' approach for now and not partake in any sort of knee-jerk nerfs based on not much info.
Trapper looks decently good for single target according to @flowcyto 's numbers. In reality you'll slot Vengeance instead of Crushing Roots on single target for 20% more damage with good positioning in dungeon.
Aye, I tried to go for a more general setup that would cover if the Trapper is also expected to (or wants) CC. Adding the bonus from things like Seeker's or CA's multiplicative bonus (say from using AotP) is pretty easy to approximate anyways.
Can I take comments for these suggestions : Seeker's Vengeance : Gives the exact damage bonuses for 3 seconds when you attack a target from behind, and off hand artifact bonus extends this to 4 seconds.
Twin Blade Storm : Instead of a flat %16 bonus at all times, this power gives 2% damage increase per rank and every rank increases obtainable buff by 1 target. I.e. At rank 4 %8 damage increase per target at maximum 4 targets.
And finally, you did really good job tweaking the class, yet please fix that broken Battlehoned. After all these nicely changes, that power staying like that is a shame to all these great work. Thanks for reading.
What I have been trying to say earlier is CoA/PG should take a slight nerf BUT all other powers should get a buff. I am NOT suggesting PG should be nerfed WITHOUT significant boosts happening to all our other powers to make them just as viable as PG.
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
@ghoulz66 the change to piercing blades that went live this patch is actually a huge nerf to pve combat, since a lot of buffs and debuffs are the post mitigation damage, so you can see a loss as big as 50% damage now.
I have zero clue what you're talking about. I'm testing it right now and see nothing different for PVE. Any attack I do, even buffed, deals an extra 50% of it, buffed or not, from PB.
Nvm, it acts normal on dummies, PB deals roughly 1/3rd on mobs in IWD. If it did that before I really don't remember.
while doing PvE your damage is increased exponately because of things such as HighVizier or High prophet sets that act as a Damage Resistance Debuff and counts as more damage so this is how it used to look.
[Combat (Self)] Player 29 deals 24000 (14523) Physical Damage to Target Dummy with Plant Growth.
[Combat (Self)] Ripper 29 deals 12000 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
so b4 it used to be half of the 24.000 and now is half of the (14523) , in PvP this is a buff, since the 24.000 damage gets mitigated , while the (14523) value cannot be changed. So it is a bit of a NERF in PvE.
If they are not going to tone down GF burst/prone/dead or the TR SE dunk, I say leave it as it is.
this is so annoyn because Hunter Ranger with piercing blades is more overpowered than both of these 2classes.
we speak about Piercing Blades that proccs on every power, can't belive the DEV will allow someth like this to go LIVE
1. There needs to be a ICD on it especially for PvP 2. There needs to be a damage Limit that it shouldn't bypass , and that's 10.000. especially for PVP.
While fighting 1v1 a Hunter Ranger the piercing blades damage varries between 0 to 20.000 damage, but in a group fight with more power, base damage multipliers from devoted cleric, GFs etc. he will hit even more than 20.000, So the idea to limit PB to 10.000 would like like that.
In solo fights the damage from PB will scale from 0-10.000 damage.
But in group fights he will deal more proccs of 10.000 hits damage rather to have it scale from 0 - 10.000 , so it will still be a good source of damage
a combat HR is not at all that squishy, he mitigates alot of damage even with 50% deflect, he also heals from Wild Medicine and Meditation, besides the usual other stuff as other classes, and his attacks + dots are all the time on you, while it's true is not the same as Trapper, they can still use rotations quite frequently with ease.
You are loudly asking for some GWF logs right? this will be done pretty soon. its easy to say "My brain went afk and i stayed in a full critted plant growth for 5 seconds taking 100k damages"... lets see what half of a gwf rotation can do..shall we? lets put some numbers in comparison. @whitespicyrice would you help me?
Says the one who spent months laughing in chats while posting logs of 200k ibs...sure thing gwf logs will hit threads soon do not fear...who is gonna sleep into plant growth except someone who intended to post nerf whining? Finally we have another dps class and ppl will be abke to have pvps with kills instead of races...meta will shift but of course why should hr deal finally some spike with no less or no control on top of it? Only gfs gwf and trs can kill yup yup...
[Combat (Self)] Your Indomitable Strength deals 20127 (70092) Physical Damage to Player 29. [Combat (Self)] Your Indomitable Strength deals 31618 (99869) Physical Damage to Player 29
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Indomitable Battle Strike deals 36522 (203044) Physical Damage to Player 29
i compared the numbers, in no way in hell those numbers are able to kill a combat HR, it is how it is man, the Piercing Blades needs a limiter thats all, and the fights are still fun.
One missed deflect, one cc from anything more or less = dead Hr so what are you gapping about looking at the numbers you are putting out with far better survivabiliy and cc + cc escapes..
You start to become a parrot with just one repeating message - nerf nerf nerf nerf jeeeez get girlfriend or something .....
Has anyone tried a "regular" 2.5-2.8k HR on PTR, and how does it perform?
A BiS HR was decent before the changes, a HR with Epic weapons/artifacts and R8's was (almost) terrible, and I guess the bulk of the players doesn't have all Mythic/Legendaries, so how the new changes affect those seems pretty important.
@ghoulz66 the change to piercing blades that went live this patch is actually a huge nerf to pve combat, since a lot of buffs and debuffs are the post mitigation damage, so you can see a loss as big as 50% damage now.
I have zero clue what you're talking about. I'm testing it right now and see nothing different for PVE. Any attack I do, even buffed, deals an extra 50% of it, buffed or not, from PB.
Nvm, it acts normal on dummies, PB deals roughly 1/3rd on mobs in IWD. If it did that before I really don't remember.
while doing PvE your damage is increased exponately because of things such as HighVizier or High prophet sets that act as a Damage Resistance Debuff and counts as more damage so this is how it used to look.
[Combat (Self)] Player 29 deals 24000 (14523) Physical Damage to Target Dummy with Plant Growth.
[Combat (Self)] Ripper 29 deals 12000 Physical Damage to you with Piercing Blade.
so b4 it used to be half of the 24.000 and now is half of the (14523) , in PvP this is a buff, since the 24.000 damage gets mitigated , while the (14523) value cannot be changed. So it is a bit of a NERF in PvE.
If they are not going to tone down GF burst/prone/dead or the TR SE dunk, I say leave it as it is.
this is so annoyn because Hunter Ranger with piercing blades is more overpowered than both of these 2classes.
we speak about Piercing Blades that proccs on every power, can't belive the DEV will allow someth like this to go LIVE
1. There needs to be a ICD on it especially for PvP 2. There needs to be a damage Limit that it shouldn't bypass , and that's 10.000. especially for PVP.
While fighting 1v1 a Hunter Ranger the piercing blades damage varries between 0 to 20.000 damage, but in a group fight with more power, base damage multipliers from devoted cleric, GFs etc. he will hit even more than 20.000, So the idea to limit PB to 10.000 would like like that.
In solo fights the damage from PB will scale from 0-10.000 damage.
But in group fights he will deal more proccs of 10.000 hits damage rather to have it scale from 0 - 10.000 , so it will still be a good source of damage
a combat HR is not at all that squishy, he mitigates alot of damage even with 50% deflect, he also heals from Wild Medicine and Meditation, besides the usual other stuff as other classes, and his attacks + dots are all the time on you, while it's true is not the same as Trapper, they can still use rotations quite frequently with ease.
I dont know what the hell are ppl talking about... Just REVERT Piercing Blades changes, because its unbelievable BROKEN in PvP. Stop comparing this damage with other classes... My main - HR for 2 years - 1shoting everyone on prewiew now. And I will never play mod 10 if this change wont revert. Even nerfing 50%->15% of piercing damage isnt enough, because ALL sources of percing damage in this game is unbelievable broken, and there are no reasons to add more - just no chances to make balance with this mechanic.
Either do not use profanity or let OUR filter do it's job. Do not avoid the filter by using * for one letter. -Ambisinisterr
I dont know what the hell are ppl talking about... Just REVERT Piercing Blades changes, because its unbelievable BROKEN in PvP. Stop talking sh*t about comparison this damage with other classes... My main - HR for 2 years - 1shoting everyone on prewiew now. And I will never play mod 10 if this change wont revert. Even nerfing 50%->15% of piercing damage isnt enough, because ALL sources of percing damage in this game is unbelievable broken, and there are no reasons to add more - just no chances to make balance with this mechanic.
The problem can be buffs from other players, if there a way to prevent PB to be buffed from other sources exept of hr feats and class futures it will solve the problem. I've done couple of 1vs1 with BiS players on preview didn't oneshotted any, probably they know how to use shift.
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
I can understand a lot of players dont see the problem with PB in PvP, because very few are at BiS level with a good combat HR spec and ACTUALLY TESTED on PTR. Once this goes on Live, you guys will start to see how terrible this is, because if a 200K HP GWF cannot survive more than 5 seconds, nothing will.
In fact the "5 second" is an over statement, because in actual PvP, HR will easily get more buffs such as ITF (30% flat damage buff) or Fire Wheel or other Power Buff from DC or so, it will be very easy to deal over 100k+ dmg in 2 seconds just with PB alone, and this is Piercing Damage.
I also find it funny that people say only if you are brain-dead and stay in Plant Growth then you would die... its so easy to keep someone in Plant Growth for 2 seconds, you can cast it and use Boar Charge to prone the target, and the person is pretty much dead, in fact in a DOM match, the targets will be easily CCed by CW's Entangle or Icy Terrain, TR's CB, Smoke Bomb, OP's unresistable stun, GF's bull charge, SW's grasp thingie or Lion's aoe prone or HR's stunlock, I am sure many of you have been in DOM with situations that you almost cannot move unless you wear an Elven, and even with that, you still can't avoid most of the prone/stuns from what I mentioned above, what does that mean? HR will easily be able to take down almost EVERYONE within 3~5 seconds and it's PIERCING damage.
I am not gonna bother arguing with HR that uses wrong spec or didn't even tested it on PTR, but if PB does not get LOOKED INTO before the release, you will see dead PvP games with a bunch of complains from PvP forum. Not gonna QQ, cus its not GWF, its EVERYONE that will die in 3~5 seconds, and if its a DUO HR party, it will be pretty much instant death for most players...
lunartic666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 53Arc User
Feedback to balance piercing blades: -single piercing dmg hit cannot be higher than 5% of enemy maximum hp (8k piercing with pg on 160k hp players is still enough imo). As a recompensate i see: -add minimum 20% running speed to combat feats -add minimum 50% cc resist to combat feats.
Comments
Guild:
Dragon Server-Essence of Aggression
Drider Server- TheWolves
youtube channel
Nvm, it acts normal on dummies, PB deals roughly 1/3rd on mobs in IWD. If it did that before I really don't remember.
Meele Hr has extremely little survivability (laughable even) compared to especially Tr and even Gf and both put up not just more spike damage in pvp but with lower downtime.
If you can live with Gfs and Tr in pvp I am sure Hr will be a minor problem as they will die to much to be of use compared to Gf Tr Cw and even Gwfs.
From what I know combat Hr will be the only "striker" with no anti cc and with the least cc overall. You might see a few but overall the survivability in pvp will be to bad so the major part of combat Hr will be pve imo.
One encounter every 15 sec can not keep up with what's already out there so keep it realistic shall we..
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Can't really say anything about combat or archery because I haven't run those paths at all or recently so have no basis for comparsion. The comments I'm reading in this thread sound encouraging though, and it's nice to see people excited about being more effective in these other paths.
Would not like to see any further nerfs to plant growth. Making the cap five will be quite a noticeable reduction of power in dungeons. For those wanting further nerfs, although this encounter is more powerful than most other HR powers, it's not still particularly strong compared to the better encounters available to other classes.
Not sure where we are with hawkeye now, but am hoping that the bugs are ironed out so the stupidly high damage available from this encounter is fixed. Multi-million damage hits are funny the first couple of times but they just make content boring after that.
One change I would really like to see is a cosmetic one. Please consider removing the awkward hunched-over run from Fox Shift so we are in the normal melee stance after using this encounter. I think it looks ridiculous and can't stand it, and I would be interested to hear from others if they would miss it.
Thanks.
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Seeker's Vengeance : Gives the exact damage bonuses for 3 seconds when you attack a target from behind, and off hand artifact bonus extends this to 4 seconds.
Twin Blade Storm : Instead of a flat %16 bonus at all times, this power gives 2% damage increase per rank and every rank increases obtainable buff by 1 target. I.e. At rank 4 %8 damage increase per target at maximum 4 targets.
And finally, you did really good job tweaking the class, yet please fix that broken Battlehoned. After all these nicely changes, that power staying like that is a shame to all these great work.
Thanks for reading.
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
this will be done pretty soon.
its easy to say "My brain went afk and i stayed in a full critted plant growth for 5 seconds taking 100k damages"...
lets see what half of a gwf rotation can do..shall we?
lets put some numbers in comparison.
@whitespicyrice would you help me?
let me post mine because i can see when im oneshotted or not.
waiting for rookz.
where are the sure strike hits btw?...where are those?
[Combat (Self)] Your Indomitable Strength deals 31618 (99869) Physical Damage to Player 29
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Indomitable Battle Strike deals 36522 (203044) Physical Damage to Player 29
i compared the numbers, in no way in hell those numbers are able to kill a combat HR, it is how it is man, the Piercing Blades needs a limiter thats all, and the fights are still fun.
One missed deflect, one cc from anything more or less = dead Hr so what are you gapping about looking at the numbers you are putting out with far better survivabiliy and cc + cc escapes..
You start to become a parrot with just one repeating message - nerf nerf nerf nerf jeeeez get girlfriend or something .....
A BiS HR was decent before the changes, a HR with Epic weapons/artifacts and R8's was (almost) terrible, and I guess the bulk of the players doesn't have all Mythic/Legendaries, so how the new changes affect those seems pretty important.
and this ^^
Guild:
Dragon Server-Essence of Aggression
Drider Server- TheWolves
youtube channel
Just REVERT Piercing Blades changes, because its unbelievable BROKEN in PvP. Stop comparing this damage with other classes... My main - HR for 2 years - 1shoting everyone on prewiew now.
And I will never play mod 10 if this change wont revert. Even nerfing 50%->15% of piercing damage isnt enough, because ALL sources of percing damage in this game is unbelievable broken, and there are no reasons to add more - just no chances to make balance with this mechanic.
Either do not use profanity or let OUR filter do it's job. Do not avoid the filter by using * for one letter. -Ambisinisterr
Guild:
Dragon Server-Essence of Aggression
Drider Server- TheWolves
youtube channel
Guild:
Dragon Server-Essence of Aggression
Drider Server- TheWolves
youtube channel
In fact the "5 second" is an over statement, because in actual PvP, HR will easily get more buffs such as ITF (30% flat damage buff) or Fire Wheel or other Power Buff from DC or so, it will be very easy to deal over 100k+ dmg in 2 seconds just with PB alone, and this is Piercing Damage.
I also find it funny that people say only if you are brain-dead and stay in Plant Growth then you would die... its so easy to keep someone in Plant Growth for 2 seconds, you can cast it and use Boar Charge to prone the target, and the person is pretty much dead, in fact in a DOM match, the targets will be easily CCed by CW's Entangle or Icy Terrain, TR's CB, Smoke Bomb, OP's unresistable stun, GF's bull charge, SW's grasp thingie or Lion's aoe prone or HR's stunlock, I am sure many of you have been in DOM with situations that you almost cannot move unless you wear an Elven, and even with that, you still can't avoid most of the prone/stuns from what I mentioned above, what does that mean? HR will easily be able to take down almost EVERYONE within 3~5 seconds and it's PIERCING damage.
I am not gonna bother arguing with HR that uses wrong spec or didn't even tested it on PTR, but if PB does not get LOOKED INTO before the release, you will see dead PvP games with a bunch of complains from PvP forum. Not gonna QQ, cus its not GWF, its EVERYONE that will die in 3~5 seconds, and if its a DUO HR party, it will be pretty much instant death for most players...
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
-single piercing dmg hit cannot be higher than 5% of enemy maximum hp (8k piercing with pg on 160k hp players is still enough imo).
As a recompensate i see:
-add minimum 20% running speed to combat feats
-add minimum 50% cc resist to combat feats.