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They aren't off by orders of magnitude - which is why you aren't seeing massive 50% damage increases all over the place - but they still need some help.
Correct we don't need a massive 50% increase overall, but neither a flawed 9-10%, as usual the truth as we want to say it, is in the middle.. HINT HINT
GRAVITY XGAME
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hypergorila2Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 73Arc User
The way ROA works is that when u cast it, u designate a AOE were arrows will land randomly, if they happen to hit something they do damage, if they don't, they won't do anything.
This is not how Rain of Arrow works. It deals damage every 0.5s to every critter (up to 5) in the area of effect. The arrows that fall from the sky are visual FX only, and have no bearing on how the damage is dealt. If you get 2 enemies at the maximum distance and watch, you'll see that an arrow will fall way over by one of them, and the other will take damage.
Ok, just tested this and you are right. It's weird because I really recollect testing ROA, granted it was some time ago, and it worked as i described, most of the arrows just missed the target and did no damage. Thanks for the heads up though, i'll edit my post and remove the wrong information on it.
you dont indeed a big damage buff as trappers, we need some way to deal burst damage and survive from the one hit killed (pve and pvp). archery needs much more love. combat needs the help of god.....
I will give my 2 cents on the topic: Giving a target cap on plant growth, which is the hardest hitting skill of hr is counterproductive of your goal to increase the damage output of HRs. Now for my main concern: Constricting arrow/steel breeze, in my opinion is the bread and butter of trapper build. Constricting activates biting snares. Now with steel breeze, does the damage of steel breeze absolutely suck? Yes it does. Do I have a complain with it? No, i don't. In my opinion, the main purpose of steel breeze is survivability. Why? It is because of the stamina gain it gives, and the aoe, which makes it easier to use, a lot of mobs to hit so it can proc lifesteal therefore added survivability. I'd be grateful if the damage of steel breeze is increased, but an increased damage for the expense of having charges? I'd rather choose the current version than the proposed one.
In PVE the damage is there contrary to what the masses say. People just need to evaluate and really think about the sources of damage for trappers. I would put a guide out there but 1. I don't want a bunch of mini me's out there 2. Everyone would cry for a bigger trapper nerf. People are just too lazy to figure it out.
Well, for us, this isn't an issue of just "listening to the masses." We have a lot of data from people running dungeons, and trials, and skirmishes. We track things like damage done of the course of the dungeon, what gear score the player had when running the dungeon, how long it took them to complete the dungeon, etc. We track highest damage done by a class in each done, average damage done, lowest damage done (oof). And consistently, the Hunter Ranger is the damage dealing class on the bottom of these lists. On live, being a Trapper is easily the way to get the best damage out of the HR, but it still falls behind the best ways to get damage for the other DPS classes.
Which is why we're trying to buff them. They aren't off by orders of magnitude - which is why you aren't seeing massive 50% damage increases all over the place - but they still need some help.
You seem to care And I want you to know your efforts mean a lot to The HR class so thank for listening and fixing Steel Breeze
The HR group is small and close nit we all stick together on our forum the wilds trying for so long to help each other get the most out of HR. We don't complain much we mostly just try to maximize what we have to work with as a group and there are not any masses like TR and GF and others on there forums .Its always the same 10 or so HRs on the forum looking to help improve our class we have a good understanding of the class please use us to help.
Now for some Humor
Maybe change Slashers mark to a Big single shot Damage burst or make It boost Dps on all encounters for 250% for 7 seconds with a 15 second cool down would solve PVP issue as well. TRs Have SE from stealth make slashers do something like SE
Or make Forest Meditation immune from Damage as it is supposed to be anyway and deflect damage back to attacker if they do hit you the surprise of a TR getting his 140k Se back to himself would be fun
@amenar as an hint archery started to be very bad when you as devs changed the old final feats. in particular cooldown reduction upon a succefull crit. please think about that feat and remove the pvp penalty from predator, the archery capstone. reducing the distance threshold on stillness of the forest may help greatly too
@amenar First off, thank you for reconsidering the steel breeze changes. The reason the HR is at the bottom is because we don't have a one stop build for max dps like the GWF and SW. The day someone make one of these guides/build is the day everyone cry NERF!
If anything, the changes to steel breeze and plant growth are a nerf for a trapper. Capping our highest damaging power, plant growth, at 5 targets isn't going to help with more dps. Maybe these 5 target caps are the reason our damage is perceived so low, food for thought. Increasing the damage and putting charges on still breeze hurts our ability to keep the trapper play style, we don't have the armor class or defensive capabilities that some classes have. We have to get in and then out before we get hit. All the other buffs are nice in all but only help at lower item levels and archers. Most of the powers that got any kind of buff are way too slow for trappers even with the cast speed decrease.
In PVE the damage is there contrary to what the masses say. People just need to evaluate and really think about the sources of damage for trappers. I would put a guide out there but 1. I don't want a bunch of mini me's out there 2. Everyone would cry for a bigger trapper nerf. People are just too lazy to figure it out.
Well, for us, this isn't an issue of just "listening to the masses." We have a lot of data from people running dungeons, and trials, and skirmishes. We track things like damage done of the course of the dungeon, what gear score the player had when running the dungeon, how long it took them to complete the dungeon, etc. We track highest damage done by a class in each done, average damage done, lowest damage done (oof). And consistently, the Hunter Ranger is the damage dealing class on the bottom of these lists. On live, being a Trapper is easily the way to get the best damage out of the HR, but it still falls behind the best ways to get damage for the other DPS classes.
Which is why we're trying to buff them. They aren't off by orders of magnitude - which is why you aren't seeing massive 50% damage increases all over the place - but they still need some help.
You should track these things in PvP too.
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
more builds for pve are nice but we need at least one build for pvp
Feedback Preface: I note the developers lack experience in the Hunter Archer (tree). There are 3 essentials to an Archer: 1) Distance - Maximum damage and away from the damage. 2) Mobility - to effect Distance, and Positioning, Damage avoidance and Setting up mobs. 3) Fast Cast - needed because of 1) and 2), and the way the NW mobs are set up. Mobs are normally structured in 3-5 clumps. Some in twos, but mostly in those numbers. We rarely ever see a single mob.
Archers cannot afford cast times. I just tested the 'improved' Aim Shot and Hawk Shot in my rotation (one at a time, replacing Rain of Arrows and Rapid Shot) and as a pure Stormwarden Archer Hunter since it was first released, who doesn't play any other classes or other Hunter build, it was so incredibly awkward, it made me cringe and laugh in disbelief. I can't imagine a newbie using this as their 'go to' at- will especially with all the clumps of 3-5 set mobs.
If the developers wish to improve the Archer (tree), they need to focus on these areas first.
Feedback: (it's generally accepted the 30% dodge increase and the Aim Shot uninterruptibility is widely welcomed).
Rapid Shot - My idea is a conservative buff of 20-30%. The buff is 67%. Since the base is only ~2k, i'm not gonna split hairs over it.
Split Shot - A 67% damage is overkill. Split Shot and Cordon of Arrows are the two best Archer skills. Hence, if Cordon is buffed by 67%, I would be puzzled and also say it is unnecessary and uncalled for. As it is, Cordon is untouched, appropriately, so it should be likewise for Split Shot.
Hawk Shot - First, there is a bug at long range (no damage, no aggro, nothing happens. It's fine on dummies though). The AOE is nominal and unnecessary. Hawk Shot is weaker than Aim Shot. It has a long cooldown while Aim Shot has none. It has no place in any rotation.
A cast time is always awkward in any Archer rotation. We need fast cast ability. I tried it in place of Rain of Arrows in my rotation. It's awful (same with the Aim shot in a normal fight rotation).
Remove the AOE, buff the damage to exceed Aim Shot and make it instant cast. This will be the Archer single target burst damage that can replace Rain of Arrows. Otherwise, I don't envision anyone using this at all. It's a waste of an Encounter slot.
Rain of Arrows - I tested RoA and just as i've feared, the increased radius diluted the single target, fire-and-forget, focus fire ability on mobs. It's now more tilted to AOE than single target. Archers need this focus fire since we dont' have a fast-cast, single target burst attack that is useful especially on close range. The live version is much preferred and needed. A compromise would be 8' instead of 6' or 10'.
Marauder's Escape - Instead of AOE damage, it needs AOE slow. Archers need this slow to buy time for all sorts of situations: 1 extra pop of Split shot or pops Rapid shots, cooldown on encounter, extra charge of cordon, stamina regeneration, cooldown on self heal, etc.
I've mentioned the NW structure of 3-5 mobs. These mobs close the gap really fast even after ME. Archers have to keep moving before we can pop another ME for another rotation.
Seismic Shot: IMO, a 30% increase is sufficient, not 67%. This is a straight line AOE skill.
Split The Sky - A 250% increase is insane. A 50% increase would be more than sufficient. The developers obviously haven't used this skill before. Dial this down please before it makes a mess in Dragon Runs or Tiamat. (This won't be a gamebreaking, but definitely overpowered).
Suggestions: So far, the developers are giving poor messaging, tools and incentives with regards to Hunter Archer attractability. The only area they can think of is damage buff. Archers require a more deliberate attention to its basic nature (the 3 requisite I listed at the preface).
Example: 1) Add AOE slow to Marauder's Escape. Say, 0.5s per tier at 50% slow clip. 2) Remove the Keen Eye feat. Archers don't need a +5% AP regen. 3) Add a feat, let's call it Marauder's Guile. Add +0.4s slow per tier at 50% slow. 4) A Newbie tries the Archery tree. Puts points on Marauder's Guile and uses Marauder's Escape. Notices the mobs are slowed down. Fires and attacks. Mob catches up. He/She fires another ME and repeat.
With a single Feat, a newb is taught that Marauder's Escape is essential to an Archery rotation. The messaging is there. The tool is there and the incentive is there. Currently, the enticements are negligible or not there.
Hasty Retreat: This feat gives Archers 25% speed buff at 6% everytime we are hit. This should be a flat 10% speed buff during combat. Archers use dodge until we can Marauder out of harm's way. Archers don't use walking speed to avoid mobs. A flat 10% buff during combat would be more useful.
That's the feedback for now. Thx for reading. Please reread my feedback on Split Shot and Split the Sky. Especially on Split the Sky.
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dheffernanMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
edited July 2016
Haven't tried the changes but I wanted to comment on something that's been said a number of times to the effect of "Archery and Combat aren't keeping up with Trapper".
They never will.
The HR class is predicated on changing stances between melee and ranged. Playing an HR who does not change stances is like playing a CW who leaves his Tab slot empty: you're doing it wrong. The truth is that all these changes are just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The feat paths don't need to be adjusted. They need to be replaced. All three paths have to leverage switching between melee and ranged. I'd say there should be a DPS path, a survival path and a utility path of some kind. Until and unless that happens Trapper is and always will be the One True Way.
People who want to play archers have to wait for another class. If you're looking for a dual-wielding melee fighter the Trickster Rogues are <--- that way.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
@jaegernl can probably explain this since he plays a HR, but its an additonal HR mechanic that is currently buggy and needs fixing @amenar
@jaegernl can probably explain this since he plays a HR, but its an additonal HR mechanic that is currently buggy and needs fixing @amenar
I would love to, but I've not used Blade Storm since... Mod 4? I've been Pathfinder since then. Romotheone posted a similar screenshot earlier.
I do have my suspicions as to what is going on, though. I'm assuming something similar along the lines of whatever goes wrong in the calculations for Hawk Eye, Murderous Flames and probably a few others. Definitly worth taking a look at though, because as Power grows, we'll probably be seeing more ridiculous numbers. Although, with the down-tune of Into the Fray, some of it might have been remedied. Still, buggy interaction that most definitly needs fixing.
Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Protection Paladin
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Just wanted to pass along some more info - found the bug with Binding Arrow.
When we reworked the power so that the secondary shot could inherit damage bonuses, it changed the way the power targeting works just enough to break this. How it works on the current preview build - you have to be within X feet of the first target and the second target must be within X feet of the first target, where X is the range of the secondary strike (30' at rank 1, etc.). So, if you are shooting from max range with Binding Arrow, you'll never get the secondary shot.
Anyhow, I fixed it. It should be in an upcoming build, though I'm not sure when that will hit preview.
Oh, also - it works right with Thorned Roots again. It wouldn't apply them properly, and would always apply Strong Grasping Roots, even if you had the Feat.
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patcherrkmMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 127Arc User
Please give the HR some big burst damage. Aimed Shot plinking someone every couple seconds in pvp for 10k damage isnt going to cut it, especially since you have to be completely immobile and a sitting duck!
Take for an example the burst damage of the Guardian Fighter's Bull Charge. It can easily hit for 130k+ in PVP against an opponent who is fully geared. A GWF can also do some great burst. A TR can do some amazing burst.
The HR however has literally no burst damage in PVP. It makes up very useless. If we are forced to sit immobile using 1 at will to deal damage while extremely vulnerable, it's damage better be HUGE. Otherwise, it's just a joke.
Just wanted to pass along some more info - found the bug with Binding Arrow.
When we reworked the power so that the secondary shot could inherit damage bonuses, it changed the way the power targeting works just enough to break this. How it works on the current preview build - you have to be within X feet of the first target and the second target must be within X feet of the first target, where X is the range of the secondary strike (30' at rank 1, etc.). So, if you are shooting from max range with Binding Arrow, you'll never get the secondary shot.
Anyhow, I fixed it. It should be in an upcoming build, though I'm not sure when that will hit preview.
Oh, also - it works right with Thorned Roots again. It wouldn't apply them properly, and would always apply Strong Grasping Roots, even if you had the Feat.
Thanks for this, this is very appreciated, now lets hope this patch will happens before MOD 10 goes live.
FFF you guys need to take a step back and look at what you're asking for.
Burst damage + survivability + permadaze? Are you nuts?
Asking for an un-nerf to Steel Breeze is asking for permadaze back again. No. Don't revert the steel breeze change, you don't even use steel breeze primarily for stamina generation, it's to keep up your cooldowns as well. Who cares about its damage, it's a utility skill, not a damage skill. You guys are going about this wrong. You don't ask for buffs to a skill that gives stamina back, you ask for the base class stamina regeneration to be increased so that you're not shoehorned into using the skill.
Survivability? Who even cares when HRs die to nothing atm because of insignias, except for broken classes like GF and TR (fyi: asking to be just as broken or more so isn't the way to go about it either). Get the dodge to work, increase base stamina regen, there you go.
Burst damage? How the HAMSTER are you going to have burst damage when you want to keep your broken cooldown reduction feats, huh? It's like you want the best of both worlds, NO. Trapper CDRs = DPS, not burst, get that through your head. Until they nerf Trapper feats the class won't get the buffs it needs. It's not so much Archery and Combat feats being weak, it's Trapper being broken as HAMSTER and therefore the base class is too weak, which in turn also makes Archery and Combat weak. I'm not saying HR is OP or anything, I'm saying the class is so broken to the point where its only saving grace atm is Thorned Roots and Swiftness of the Fox, because those are far too strong. NERF THOSE and THEN buff based on what the class is after that. Stop trying to buff around broken mechanics because that won't get you anywhere. Realise that cooldown reductions/low cooldowns is the premise for DOT/DPS, NOT BURST. Burst is higher CDs + less attacking. HR is honestly not a burst class, but if you nerf the cooldown reductions then you can at least take the first step towards that.
Also Thorned Roots gets weaker the stronger the base class is, so it's less of an issue than Swiftness, but Swiftness gets much much stronger the stronger the base class is. Archery and Combat need the base class buffed unless you want to give them 100-200% damage boosts which is plain stupid (and amenar already said he didn't want to give massive buffs at this point).
You can't have a cake and also eat it, so stop asking for everything at once. The class is weak, yes, but you need to realise where the problems are coming from and FIX THAT FIRST. Until then you'll just have a broken class that barely lives due to one or two things, and having everything else about it completely useless.
@amenar, please listen to the words of a veteran player. Nerfing the class at this stage might seem harsh, but if you don't, you won't fix the real problems with the class and just compound the problems until you need to do a complete rework from the ground up again.
Also, HR is fine in pve and is nowhere near the bottom of the DPS charts. Using people who don't know how to play the class (the people who end up at the bottom of DPS charts in pve) as a premise for buffing is just asking for trouble.
@amenar You have updated us for the binding arrow, (not useful to me atm in PVE, but thanks for fixing it nonetheless), so i wanted to ask about earlier requests about hawkeye, commanding shot and steel breeze. kindly get back to us whenever a decision has been done. thank you.
As the trapper stands now some major function issues are to be fixed first then balanced. U need to fix things before u can balance them.
1. Make thorned roots damage and the strong roots mechanic separate, so that CC resist only negates the roots and dazes not the actual damage. If u have enough CC resist u still get the damage from dots but u wont be rooted or dazed indefinetly. Fairtrade i would say.
2. Our utility powers (oak skin, swiftness of the fox etc.) siphon away serpent stacks as the tooltip on serpent clearly states attacking powers should only do this.
3. Oak skin procs instant ranged and longstrider procs instant melee cooldowns
Feedback:
1. No more charges on powers, boost steel breeze damage wise, but keep it chargeless. if you implement the 1. fix i wrote, the permadaze will be gone if ye get enough CC resist or deflection.
2. No reductions on power ranges, thank you, they are working good and are not overpowered
3. Speed up animations, alot, Ex. as for now aimed shot is a joke and not viable in any ranged build.
4. Fix blade storm interaction for plantgrowth
5. Remove the hit cap of 5 mobs from plantgrowth, its an aoe power.
6. Revisit our feats and powers, theres alot of pure nonsense in there stat and useability wise, also broken stuff that should be fixed before balancing.
Let us be a mobility toon, let us be fast shooters and fast wielders of blades, after that spoon into our damage more, hell, Drizzt is one fast killing machine with his Taulmaril "The Heartseeker" and both Icingdeath and Twikle (with no roots :) ), his trusted scimitars, hes the main figure of the hunter ranger as a class, so let us have some of that drow ranger magic, eh?.
PS. i know there are more major stuff but i listed only a few cos there are people with more knowledge of them.
Edit. yeah ralexinor has a point a very good point BUT remove the crushing roots passive and trappers cunning, those are why we can permadaze, NOT because of swiftness of the fox.
...just to add for devs, most trappers as far as i know use these powers mainly and mostly (only gonna mention the other name/half of the power):
Fox Constricting Rain of arrows Marauders rush Binding Hindering Rapid Split Thornward Split the Sky Cordon Longstrider Seismic Daily Cold Steel Hurricane Electric shot Careful attack Slashers mark Disruptive Forest Ghost Forest Meditation
so if ya tell me that were just 3 powers, 1 trick rotation ponys, well, u dont know much.
The 3 powers listed in your news section, i use them a lot, yes, cos i run tons of solo content, dailys and easy dungeons, When ever i skirmish, dungeon delve, tiamat or herald run i switch powers, but most of my play is solo and hindering/constricting/cordon delivers just the perfect amount of survivability and dps, this is for me of course. And by the way i wield a gambit trapper not full feated one, so theres that also, theres also longshot builds out there. So we are many in our trappingverse :)
So two people are asking for steel breeze to stay fixed and none of us have insight? You guys just need to realize that not everyone plays pvp. It's clear they don't care about fixing the HR in pvp, don't insult the people who want to continue trapper builds in pve. Steel breeze with charges trashes the trapper play style.
@Amenar -- thank you for removing the charges from Steel Breeze. Please look at the combat tree...
Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
I would echo the general comments to Steel Breeze (remove charges) and Plant Growth (no cap). Steel Breeze is an integral part of the Trapper rotation and provides survivability. With three charges you find yourself with a clunky rotation in a matter of seconds. It's already difficult to keep up with other DPS classes in places like CN bridge and corridors. A target cap on Plant Growth is going to make that even more difficult.
I understand Ralexinor but don't agree. The reason I always liked the ranger is the almost seamless rotation of encounters and the frenetic button mashing you get. Before it was gained with the Royal Guard armor and now for the trapper with Swiftness of the Fox. I really have no interest in going back to a more pew pew at-will style. It will spoil the fun.
Suggestions: for Archers make Stillness of the Forest give 20/40/60/80/100% crit chance. At 5 ranks it will be similar to what TRs have (guaranteed crit under a condition) and will open the chance to go for more power/arpen/recovery focused builds. Add a slow to Marauders escape. Reassess damage after the change to Stillness and apply further changes if needed.
For Combat: make flurry last for 5 seconds (or some other duration) and greatly improve its damage. It would be interesting to add an extra hit of the at will every time you hit with an at-will during the duration (so twice for the first hit, three times for the second, etc.). Add extra deviation chanche when Flurry is active and rework some of the useless feats in the first ranks of the Combat feat tree.
Trapper: the feat tree is pretty solid. Maybe change Readied stance as AP gain is not an issue for trappers. Make it potentially useful as a dip for the other trees like Ghostwalker and Bloodletting.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
@gabrieldourden couldn't agree more with your stance on the trapper, the nerfs are certainly unwelcome and goes against what the devs said. If the class is underperforming like the devs said to include the trapper, then why throw in the plant growth cap?
Guild: Ruthless Character: Vendetta
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
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I am enormously pleased you're reconsidering the charges on Steel Breeze. Hunter Rangers thank you.
It's weird because I really recollect testing ROA, granted it was some time ago, and it worked as i described, most of the arrows just missed the target and did no damage. Thanks for the heads up though, i'll edit my post and remove the wrong information on it.
archery needs much more love.
combat needs the help of god.....
Giving a target cap on plant growth, which is the hardest hitting skill of hr is counterproductive of your goal to increase the damage output of HRs.
Now for my main concern:
Constricting arrow/steel breeze, in my opinion is the bread and butter of trapper build. Constricting activates biting snares. Now with steel breeze, does the damage of steel breeze absolutely suck? Yes it does. Do I have a complain with it? No, i don't. In my opinion, the main purpose of steel breeze is survivability. Why? It is because of the stamina gain it gives, and the aoe, which makes it easier to use, a lot of mobs to hit so it can proc lifesteal therefore added survivability. I'd be grateful if the damage of steel breeze is increased, but an increased damage for the expense of having charges? I'd rather choose the current version than the proposed one.
Hope this helps in making your decision.
The HR group is small and close nit we all stick together on our forum the wilds trying for so long to help each other get the most out of HR. We don't complain much we mostly just try to maximize what we have to work with as a group and there are not any masses like TR and GF and others on there forums .Its always the same 10 or so HRs on the forum looking to help improve our class we have a good understanding of the class please use us to help.
Now for some Humor
Maybe change Slashers mark to a Big single shot Damage burst or make It boost Dps on all encounters for 250% for 7 seconds with a 15 second cool down would solve PVP issue as well. TRs Have SE from stealth make slashers do something like SE
Or make Forest Meditation immune from Damage as it is supposed to be anyway and deflect damage back to attacker if they do hit you the surprise of a TR getting his 140k Se back to himself would be fun
Ara
as an hint archery started to be very bad when you as devs changed the old final feats.
in particular cooldown reduction upon a succefull crit.
please think about that feat and remove the pvp penalty from predator, the archery capstone.
reducing the distance threshold on stillness of the forest may help greatly too
If anything, the changes to steel breeze and plant growth are a nerf for a trapper. Capping our highest damaging power, plant growth, at 5 targets isn't going to help with more dps. Maybe these 5 target caps are the reason our damage is perceived so low, food for thought. Increasing the damage and putting charges on still breeze hurts our ability to keep the trapper play style, we don't have the armor class or defensive capabilities that some classes have. We have to get in and then out before we get hit. All the other buffs are nice in all but only help at lower item levels and archers. Most of the powers that got any kind of buff are way too slow for trappers even with the cast speed decrease.
Character: Vendetta
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
There are 3 essentials to an Archer:
1) Distance - Maximum damage and away from the damage.
2) Mobility - to effect Distance, and Positioning, Damage avoidance and Setting up mobs.
3) Fast Cast - needed because of 1) and 2), and the way the NW mobs are set up. Mobs are normally structured in 3-5 clumps. Some in twos, but mostly in those numbers. We rarely ever see a single mob.
Archers cannot afford cast times. I just tested the 'improved' Aim Shot and Hawk Shot in my rotation (one at a time, replacing Rain of Arrows and Rapid Shot) and as a pure Stormwarden Archer Hunter since it was first released, who doesn't play any other classes or other Hunter build, it was so incredibly awkward, it made me cringe and laugh in disbelief. I can't imagine a newbie using this as their 'go to' at- will especially with all the clumps of 3-5 set mobs.
If the developers wish to improve the Archer (tree), they need to focus on these areas first.
Feedback: (it's generally accepted the 30% dodge increase and the Aim Shot uninterruptibility is widely welcomed).
Rapid Shot - My idea is a conservative buff of 20-30%. The buff is 67%. Since the base is only ~2k, i'm not gonna split hairs over it.
Split Shot - A 67% damage is overkill. Split Shot and Cordon of Arrows are the two best Archer skills. Hence, if Cordon is buffed by 67%, I would be puzzled and also say it is unnecessary and uncalled for. As it is, Cordon is untouched, appropriately, so it should be likewise for Split Shot.
Hawk Shot - First, there is a bug at long range (no damage, no aggro, nothing happens. It's fine on dummies though). The AOE is nominal and unnecessary. Hawk Shot is weaker than Aim Shot. It has a long cooldown while Aim Shot has none. It has no place in any rotation.
A cast time is always awkward in any Archer rotation. We need fast cast ability. I tried it in place of Rain of Arrows in my rotation. It's awful (same with the Aim shot in a normal fight rotation).
Remove the AOE, buff the damage to exceed Aim Shot and make it instant cast. This will be the Archer single target burst damage that can replace Rain of Arrows. Otherwise, I don't envision anyone using this at all. It's a waste of an Encounter slot.
Rain of Arrows - I tested RoA and just as i've feared, the increased radius diluted the single target, fire-and-forget, focus fire ability on mobs. It's now more tilted to AOE than single target. Archers need this focus fire since we dont' have a fast-cast, single target burst attack that is useful especially on close range. The live version is much preferred and needed. A compromise would be 8' instead of 6' or 10'.
Marauder's Escape - Instead of AOE damage, it needs AOE slow. Archers need this slow to buy time for all sorts of situations: 1 extra pop of Split shot or pops Rapid shots, cooldown on encounter, extra charge of cordon, stamina regeneration, cooldown on self heal, etc.
I've mentioned the NW structure of 3-5 mobs. These mobs close the gap really fast even after ME. Archers have to keep moving before we can pop another ME for another rotation.
Seismic Shot: IMO, a 30% increase is sufficient, not 67%. This is a straight line AOE skill.
Split The Sky - A 250% increase is insane. A 50% increase would be more than sufficient. The developers obviously haven't used this skill before. Dial this down please before it makes a mess in Dragon Runs or Tiamat. (This won't be a gamebreaking, but definitely overpowered).
Suggestions:
So far, the developers are giving poor messaging, tools and incentives with regards to Hunter Archer attractability. The only area they can think of is damage buff. Archers require a more deliberate attention to its basic nature (the 3 requisite I listed at the preface).
Example:
1) Add AOE slow to Marauder's Escape. Say, 0.5s per tier at 50% slow clip.
2) Remove the Keen Eye feat. Archers don't need a +5% AP regen.
3) Add a feat, let's call it Marauder's Guile. Add +0.4s slow per tier at 50% slow.
4) A Newbie tries the Archery tree. Puts points on Marauder's Guile and uses Marauder's Escape. Notices the mobs are slowed down. Fires and attacks. Mob catches up. He/She fires another ME and repeat.
With a single Feat, a newb is taught that Marauder's Escape is essential to an Archery rotation. The messaging is there. The tool is there and the incentive is there. Currently, the enticements are negligible or not there.
Hasty Retreat: This feat gives Archers 25% speed buff at 6% everytime we are hit. This should be a flat 10% speed buff during combat. Archers use dodge until we can Marauder out of harm's way. Archers don't use walking speed to avoid mobs. A flat 10% buff during combat would be more useful.
That's the feedback for now. Thx for reading. Please reread my feedback on Split Shot and Split the Sky. Especially on Split the Sky.
They never will.
The HR class is predicated on changing stances between melee and ranged. Playing an HR who does not change stances is like playing a CW who leaves his Tab slot empty: you're doing it wrong. The truth is that all these changes are just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The feat paths don't need to be adjusted. They need to be replaced. All three paths have to leverage switching between melee and ranged. I'd say there should be a DPS path, a survival path and a utility path of some kind. Until and unless that happens Trapper is and always will be the One True Way.
People who want to play archers have to wait for another class. If you're looking for a dual-wielding melee fighter the Trickster Rogues are <--- that way.
@jaegernl can probably explain this since he plays a HR, but its an additonal HR mechanic that is currently buggy and needs fixing @amenar
What about control and CD feat?
And more damage in pvp?
What can you tell about my feedback. I really w8 your answer. Plzzz
I do have my suspicions as to what is going on, though. I'm assuming something similar along the lines of whatever goes wrong in the calculations for Hawk Eye, Murderous Flames and probably a few others. Definitly worth taking a look at though, because as Power grows, we'll probably be seeing more ridiculous numbers. Although, with the down-tune of Into the Fray, some of it might have been remedied. Still, buggy interaction that most definitly needs fixing.
When we reworked the power so that the secondary shot could inherit damage bonuses, it changed the way the power targeting works just enough to break this. How it works on the current preview build - you have to be within X feet of the first target and the second target must be within X feet of the first target, where X is the range of the secondary strike (30' at rank 1, etc.). So, if you are shooting from max range with Binding Arrow, you'll never get the secondary shot.
Anyhow, I fixed it. It should be in an upcoming build, though I'm not sure when that will hit preview.
Oh, also - it works right with Thorned Roots again. It wouldn't apply them properly, and would always apply Strong Grasping Roots, even if you had the Feat.
Please give the HR some big burst damage. Aimed Shot plinking someone every couple seconds in pvp for 10k damage isnt going to cut it, especially since you have to be completely immobile and a sitting duck!
Take for an example the burst damage of the Guardian Fighter's Bull Charge. It can easily hit for 130k+ in PVP against an opponent who is fully geared. A GWF can also do some great burst. A TR can do some amazing burst.
The HR however has literally no burst damage in PVP. It makes up very useless. If we are forced to sit immobile using 1 at will to deal damage while extremely vulnerable, it's damage better be HUGE. Otherwise, it's just a joke.
Burst damage + survivability + permadaze? Are you nuts?
Asking for an un-nerf to Steel Breeze is asking for permadaze back again. No. Don't revert the steel breeze change, you don't even use steel breeze primarily for stamina generation, it's to keep up your cooldowns as well. Who cares about its damage, it's a utility skill, not a damage skill. You guys are going about this wrong. You don't ask for buffs to a skill that gives stamina back, you ask for the base class stamina regeneration to be increased so that you're not shoehorned into using the skill.
Survivability? Who even cares when HRs die to nothing atm because of insignias, except for broken classes like GF and TR (fyi: asking to be just as broken or more so isn't the way to go about it either). Get the dodge to work, increase base stamina regen, there you go.
Burst damage? How the HAMSTER are you going to have burst damage when you want to keep your broken cooldown reduction feats, huh? It's like you want the best of both worlds, NO. Trapper CDRs = DPS, not burst, get that through your head. Until they nerf Trapper feats the class won't get the buffs it needs. It's not so much Archery and Combat feats being weak, it's Trapper being broken as HAMSTER and therefore the base class is too weak, which in turn also makes Archery and Combat weak. I'm not saying HR is OP or anything, I'm saying the class is so broken to the point where its only saving grace atm is Thorned Roots and Swiftness of the Fox, because those are far too strong. NERF THOSE and THEN buff based on what the class is after that. Stop trying to buff around broken mechanics because that won't get you anywhere. Realise that cooldown reductions/low cooldowns is the premise for DOT/DPS, NOT BURST. Burst is higher CDs + less attacking. HR is honestly not a burst class, but if you nerf the cooldown reductions then you can at least take the first step towards that.
Also Thorned Roots gets weaker the stronger the base class is, so it's less of an issue than Swiftness, but Swiftness gets much much stronger the stronger the base class is. Archery and Combat need the base class buffed unless you want to give them 100-200% damage boosts which is plain stupid (and amenar already said he didn't want to give massive buffs at this point).
You can't have a cake and also eat it, so stop asking for everything at once. The class is weak, yes, but you need to realise where the problems are coming from and FIX THAT FIRST. Until then you'll just have a broken class that barely lives due to one or two things, and having everything else about it completely useless.
@amenar, please listen to the words of a veteran player. Nerfing the class at this stage might seem harsh, but if you don't, you won't fix the real problems with the class and just compound the problems until you need to do a complete rework from the ground up again.
Also, HR is fine in pve and is nowhere near the bottom of the DPS charts. Using people who don't know how to play the class (the people who end up at the bottom of DPS charts in pve) as a premise for buffing is just asking for trouble.
1. Make thorned roots damage and the strong roots mechanic separate, so that CC resist only negates the roots and dazes not the actual damage. If u have enough CC resist u still get the damage from dots but u wont be rooted or dazed indefinetly. Fairtrade i would say.
2. Our utility powers (oak skin, swiftness of the fox etc.) siphon away serpent stacks as the tooltip on serpent clearly states attacking powers should only do this.
3. Oak skin procs instant ranged and longstrider procs instant melee cooldowns
Feedback:
1. No more charges on powers, boost steel breeze damage wise, but keep it chargeless. if you implement the 1. fix i wrote, the permadaze will be gone if ye get enough CC resist or deflection.
2. No reductions on power ranges, thank you, they are working good and are not overpowered
3. Speed up animations, alot, Ex. as for now aimed shot is a joke and not viable in any ranged build.
4. Fix blade storm interaction for plantgrowth
5. Remove the hit cap of 5 mobs from plantgrowth, its an aoe power.
6. Revisit our feats and powers, theres alot of pure nonsense in there stat and useability wise, also broken stuff that should be fixed before balancing.
Let us be a mobility toon, let us be fast shooters and fast wielders of blades, after that spoon into our damage more, hell, Drizzt is one fast killing machine with his Taulmaril "The Heartseeker" and both Icingdeath and Twikle (with no roots :) ), his trusted scimitars, hes the main figure of the hunter ranger as a class, so let us have some of that drow ranger magic, eh?.
PS. i know there are more major stuff but i listed only a few cos there are people with more knowledge of them.
Edit. yeah ralexinor has a point a very good point BUT remove the crushing roots passive and trappers cunning, those are why we can permadaze, NOT because of swiftness of the fox.
Fox
Constricting
Rain of arrows
Marauders rush
Binding
Hindering
Rapid
Split
Thornward
Split the Sky
Cordon
Longstrider
Seismic Daily
Cold Steel Hurricane
Electric shot
Careful attack
Slashers mark
Disruptive
Forest Ghost
Forest Meditation
so if ya tell me that were just 3 powers, 1 trick rotation ponys, well, u dont know much.
The 3 powers listed in your news section, i use them a lot, yes, cos i run tons of solo content, dailys and easy dungeons, When ever i skirmish, dungeon delve, tiamat or herald run i switch powers, but most of my play is solo and hindering/constricting/cordon delivers just the perfect amount of survivability and dps, this is for me of course. And by the way i wield a gambit trapper not full feated one, so theres that also, theres also longshot builds out there. So we are many in our trappingverse :)
Character: Vendetta
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
Steel Breeze is an integral part of the Trapper rotation and provides survivability. With three charges you find yourself with a clunky rotation in a matter of seconds. It's already difficult to keep up with other DPS classes in places like CN bridge and corridors. A target cap on Plant Growth is going to make that even more difficult.
I understand Ralexinor but don't agree. The reason I always liked the ranger is the almost seamless rotation of encounters and the frenetic button mashing you get. Before it was gained with the Royal Guard armor and now for the trapper with Swiftness of the Fox. I really have no interest in going back to a more pew pew at-will style. It will spoil the fun.
Suggestions: for Archers make Stillness of the Forest give 20/40/60/80/100% crit chance. At 5 ranks it will be similar to what TRs have (guaranteed crit under a condition) and will open the chance to go for more power/arpen/recovery focused builds. Add a slow to Marauders escape.
Reassess damage after the change to Stillness and apply further changes if needed.
For Combat: make flurry last for 5 seconds (or some other duration) and greatly improve its damage. It would be interesting to add an extra hit of the at will every time you hit with an at-will during the duration (so twice for the first hit, three times for the second, etc.). Add extra deviation chanche when Flurry is active and rework some of the useless feats in the first ranks of the Combat feat tree.
Trapper: the feat tree is pretty solid. Maybe change Readied stance as AP gain is not an issue for trappers. Make it potentially useful as a dip for the other trees like Ghostwalker and Bloodletting.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Character: Vendetta
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