FFF you guys need to take a step back and look at what you're asking for.
Burst damage + survivability + permadaze? Are you nuts?
Asking for an un-nerf to Steel Breeze is asking for permadaze back again. No. Don't revert the steel breeze change, you don't even use steel breeze primarily for stamina generation, it's to keep up your cooldowns as well. Who cares about its damage, it's a utility skill, not a damage skill. You guys are going about this wrong. You don't ask for buffs to a skill that gives stamina back, you ask for the base class stamina regeneration to be increased so that you're not shoehorned into using the skill.
Survivability? Who even cares when HRs die to nothing atm because of insignias, except for broken classes like GF and TR (fyi: asking to be just as broken or more so isn't the way to go about it either). Get the dodge to work, increase base stamina regen, there you go.
Burst damage? How the **** are you going to have burst damage when you want to keep your broken cooldown reduction feats, huh? It's like you want the best of both worlds, NO. Trapper CDRs = DPS, not burst, get that through your head. Until they nerf Trapper feats the class won't get the buffs it needs. It's not so much Archery and Combat feats being weak, it's Trapper being broken as **** and therefore the base class is too weak, which in turn also makes Archery and Combat weak. I'm not saying HR is OP or anything, I'm saying the class is so broken to the point where its only saving grace atm is Thorned Roots and Swiftness of the Fox, because those are far too strong. NERF THOSE and THEN buff based on what the class is after that. Stop trying to buff around broken mechanics because that won't get you anywhere. Realise that cooldown reductions/low cooldowns is the premise for DOT/DPS, NOT BURST. Burst is higher CDs + less attacking. HR is honestly not a burst class, but if you nerf the cooldown reductions then you can at least take the first step towards that.
Also Thorned Roots gets weaker the stronger the base class is, so it's less of an issue than Swiftness, but Swiftness gets much much stronger the stronger the base class is. Archery and Combat need the base class buffed unless you want to give them 100-200% damage boosts which is plain stupid (and amenar already said he didn't want to give massive buffs at this point).
You can't have a cake and also eat it, so stop asking for everything at once. The class is weak, yes, but you need to realise where the problems are coming from and FIX THAT FIRST. Until then you'll just have a broken class that barely lives due to one or two things, and having everything else about it completely useless.
@amenar, please listen to the words of a veteran player. Nerfing the class at this stage might seem harsh, but if you don't, you won't fix the real problems with the class and just compound the problems until you need to do a complete rework from the ground up again.
Also, HR is fine in pve and is nowhere near the bottom of the DPS charts. Using people who don't know how to play the class (the people who end up at the bottom of DPS charts in pve) as a premise for buffing is just asking for trouble.
If he does what you want he will lose possibly hundreds of players and paying customers. I personally love the way the trapper plays and would be fine without any buffs to the tree. Take that away with the Steel Breeze charges and I will be one of the hundreds that leave Neverwinter for good. I might even look into what it would take to obtain a refund from Microsoft for the hundreds of dollars I spent for keys and other in game items over the last year. Neverwinter is the only game I play now and this firm receives all of my funds budgeted for gaming
So you're saying you'll rage quit if the CD feats are adjusted to allow room for more power buffs to the class to make Archery and Combat more in line?
not to mention that he can get that playstyle back with some recovery.
we dont want permaroot in the game. we want better dps at pvp - work towards that devs
p.s. if you are too scared that trapper should be overpowered with better damage, then give better damage only to archery and combat feats .....
it is that hard to figure out?.....
aka -
players that defend their permarooting pvp gameplay need to step down
players that defend their pve trapper to stay as it is in everything need also step down
I guess since I do not agree with you I should just quit the game, right? You win, nothing to see here you can all go home now...
Appeasement did not work for Chamberlain and it won't work here either. For the game to continue to be free the firm needs customers. How many Trappers do you think will leave once the Devs kill the feel of the Trapper? What do you think the loss of revenue will be? Do you really think @amenar wants to be the Dev that causes a massive loss of revenue? So the PVPers can push another nerf through?
you logic is full of holes ...
its gettin tiresome when people TRY to help a class, and they get dissed for that. THE SAME players that keep adding "devs" in their sentence, are the same that don't have any vision at all on how the class could be for module 10.
My logic is simple: Customers that enjoy playing the game will spend money. Money spent on the game keeps the game free for players that come and go. Without revenue there will be no game. Therefore if you chase out the customers that enjoy the game there will be no money...and no game.
Heck I will make it really simple for you CUSTOMERS=REVENUE=NEVERWINTER, NO CUSTOMERS= NO REVENUE= NO NEVERWINTER. How is that logic for you?
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
@landelmer stop being a spoilt kid and read posts properly. And stop with the exaggeration. There's not even hundreds of HR players in the game, tbh, and even if there were, I highly doubt they'd leave over this.
As @kangkeok said in the HR forums, the nerfs I'm proposing aren't to entirely remove the "feel" of Trapper as you call it, but to tone it down so that it's inline with the other paths, and then buff the entire base class so that all 3 paths have enough damage and viability.
Since apparently people can't read:
- Trapper: Swiftness of the Fox: reduce to 10% instead of 15% - Trapper: Swiftness of the Fox: make it proc on skill use rather than targets hit (Swiftness of the Fox currently activates based on targets hit, which is quite possibly a BUG) - Trapper: Thorned Roots: reduce to 50% or 70% of current damage at minimum. - Class base damage: increase overall damage of skills by 30-50%~ (open to adjustment, some will need far more than others) - QoL changes to some feats (i.e. Archery Stillness of the Forest should not rely on such a distance)
You still have your Trapper playstyle, and now stacking Recovery is actually effective. Overall, you should see substantial increases in damage and viability for all 3 paths, and Archery and Combat won't be aeons behind Trapper. Archery and Combat will still need some adjustments, but overall it'd be far easier to see where they stand in terms of balance. Additionally, the class could quite possibly do with an overall cooldown reduction of about 10-20%, but that's not absolutely necessary.
I would go for it but without the first change. It would still need to stack recovery which is possible with existing equipment but not an horrible amount. Return on Recovery is non linear in terms of time reduction so that extra 15% you will lose would be quite difficult to replace. Anyway if they do something like this I'll be happy to test it. I want to preserve the feeling and if a decent chance is given I'll try it.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Maybe trapper should just be reworked and just made CC and buffs/debuffs. It was strange from the beginning to give them just as many self DPS buffs as archery plus the CD spam.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
3. Oak skin procs instant ranged and longstrider procs instant melee cooldowns
Is this a product of number of allies affected?
Yes Becky. Also Hawk Eye gives a cooldown reduction every time one of your party members (or you) make it proc (i.e. you can sustain the melee part of the rotation with hawkeye only if you want and all your party members are up). I do that with Orcus if there's no tank. You can have a seamless rotation just using constrictive, longstrider and hawkeye as long as all party members are up and attacking Orcus.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Maybe trapper should just be reworked and just made CC and buffs/debuffs. It was strange from the beginning to give them just as many self DPS buffs as archery plus the CD spam.
That would work too. I'd love to see it mixed with the old nature tree and if buff/debuffs are strong enough I guess they could even remove roots completely and make it a support tree which I'd be happy to play. And for the PVP side it would be fun to add to the capstone: whenever you activate master trapper the targets hits by your next encounter power will not receive any healing for X seconds (say 5 for a first test on preview?).
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
> @beckylunatic said: > 3. Oak skin procs instant ranged and longstrider procs instant melee cooldowns > > > > Is this a product of number of allies affected?
test in in live, works every time when in a full party, im not a good ACT tracker, but yeah they gives ya full cools on every encounter, check Sumes videos in you tube, (Suwantemee), also check the wilds forum, this rotations are posted there.
if u people wanna go nerf side on trapper, we in a world of hurt atm, cos of bugs and broken powers, people are giving out good ides, keep it up so the devs can use it, if they use it i dont know.
While i can share with your sentiments, i dont think this can be done for this upcoming patch/mod(changes). I am thinking along the lines of a ground-up rebuild would be harder for them than to make a new class. Still, this is worth giving a try.
You know who will win the forum wars.. certainly not HR. Get back on topic. This is a feedback thread not a "here's how I would fix it" thread.
Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
Burst damage + survivability + permadaze? Are you nuts?...
I do not know what you call "permadaze". But, ok, let's consider that HR has "permadaze" in PVP. Log back into game and check TRs - they have all that. They even do not need to swap loadout for that. What people are asking for HRs is legit in that case. It's not module 6.^^ Would be especially nice to see "permadaze" in action against GWF/GF/opressor CW in action... and TR ofc
You know who will win the forum wars.. certainly not HR. Get back on topic. This is a feedback thread not a "here's how I would fix it" thread.
+1 Amen
I mentioned it in my original post but I sense the furor over charges on steel breeze were the main focal point at that time. I'd like to ask / restate, @amenar why on earth has the range of marauders been reduced? Moving around in combat stance as a HR is nearly as burdensome as on a CW, except we don't quite possess the same ability to completely immobilize, stun and proc lifesteal tics while in melee. The range distance was actually one of the nicer feeling advantages of slotting marauders when you are using it. Others may not feel as I do, but I have to ask, if it was not considered broken, then why is this being changed??? It seems entirely unneccesary to me. I'd like to see this rework come away feeling like an improvement overall.
Feedback: Aimed shot - .25 second reduction in charge time, still doubt I would slot it as a trapper, cast time is just too long and you are locked in stance while casting it, which can only be broken by shifting. It was nice not having it interupted but really if you are taking tier 2 or upcoming T3 mob level damage while casting it you better move anyway = zero dps so not really something I'd invest in.
Rapid shot: Definitely did not feel like an improvement, but as your notes suggest I am at a higher ilvl. Rapid strike was similar, I don't expect to see the same at will damage as a TR using flurry but the skill could use a bigger buff.
Split Shot: already mentioned I prob would use it rarely, it could be great again, but it's not lol. Split strike felt utterly underwhelming, another reason not to slot this as a bread and butter at will. The animation on this skill has always been annoying to me, if it performed more like an AoE should feel then that might make it worthwhile, but again, damage level feels like you are a weasel gnawing on foghorn leghorns foot. The range could be increased a little as well.
Plant growth: I pulled a bunch of mobs together into a cordon then switched to plant growth. I can't imagine using this in a dungeon like the zombie hallway of CN without a nice CW that has icy veins, esp if you are dropping the cap on GF's enforced threat, granted I wouldn't ordinarily try to over pull stuff, but I wanted to see how it felt with a larger mob group. Target cap of 5 may be reasonable for dailies but this feels like a nerf. You've written that it now properly caps at 5...maybe I've missed something o.O?
Tried these on my Stormwarden and will try some of the other changes on my Pathfinder. Sorry but split the sky is still too weak to even consider slotting.
Buffing hunters? Sure maybe stuff hardly anybody uses. and killing stuff people do use. I am a pve hr, and honestly a very good one at that. You are KILLING us. There are hardly any good pve hr compared to other classes. Most I've hr I see are trash, no offense to anyone. You're NERFING our hardest hitting power, killing our stamina regen which keeps us alive because we get hit once and most of us go splat. I pull aggro like no freaking other. How the heck am I supposed to survive? I don't want a damage buff to steel breeze. Heck, go ahead and make it weaker, just don't give it charges with a darn cool down. Its ridiculous. plant growth max 5? Jesus many of us barely do dps as is, take that away and the best of us wont even be able to do decent dps. I can understand pvp peole disliking the perma roto, but for petes sake, its the only thing giving pve hunters a chance. take this as whining or whatever, but I will quit if the changes to plant growth and steel breeze, as was originally planned, actually happen. You will KILL the only truly relevant pve build we have. reading rhse changes has upset me on a level that truly disturbs me. I almost quit this game a whole ago and the pace of the hunter kept me playing and spending thousands on my hunter. idk how your internal hrs deemsd this a positive change but they are WRONG. please actually read what the MAJORITY of people are saying and listen to them! I am not saying all the changes are bad, heck some of then are pretty nice, however you CANNOT do this to steel breeze and plant growth without destroying us pve hunters. Its absurd. Read the feed back, nobody thinks this charge thing is a good idea, nor the cap to plant growth. BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD. I will regret ever spending a dime on this game and will not even think twice of quitting. please rethink your "buff" because the only buff I see coming from this is the buff to me hitting the uninstall button easier. Truly truly truly disappointed edit: You asked foe feedback, I'm giving you my honest opinion without holding back. the best buff you could give us at this point is by NOT messing with those two powers at all. They are fine as they are now. I never had any intention of even looking at forums but after hearing this, I had to say something.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
@metalldjt I understand why you want burst damage for HR in pvp, but can you please suggest things in a way that won't drastically increase HR damage in PVE? ATM, trapper is fine in terms of DPS in PVE, the problem is its DoT damage, which simply just gets out healed in PVP. I recommend suggesting things like, "opponents cannot heal whilst under the effect of a DoT," or, "roots pierce at 50% effectiveness." Obviously, I have no idea if either of those ideas are balanced (as I don't pvp) but they are an example of how you could improve a HRs damage in PVP without increasing it in PVE.
@metalldjt I understand why you want burst damage for HR in pvp, but can you please suggest things in a way that won't drastically increase HR damage in PVE? ATM, trapper is fine in terms of DPS in PVE, the problem is its DoT damage, which simply just gets out healed in PVP. I recommend suggesting things like, "opponents cannot heal whilst under the effect of a DoT," or, "roots pierce at 50% effectiveness." Obviously, I have no idea if either of those ideas are balanced (as I don't pvp) but they are an example of how you could improve a HRs damage in PVP without increasing it in PVE.
i would be ok with this too but in no way we are going to fix combat or archery. maybe this is not the goal tho
@landelmer stop being a spoilt kid and read posts properly. And stop with the exaggeration. There's not even hundreds of HR players in the game, tbh, and even if there were, I highly doubt they'd leave over this.
As @kangkeok said in the HR forums, the nerfs I'm proposing aren't to entirely remove the "feel" of Trapper as you call it, but to tone it down so that it's inline with the other paths, and then buff the entire base class so that all 3 paths have enough damage and viability.
Since apparently people can't read:
- Trapper: Swiftness of the Fox: reduce to 10% instead of 15% - Trapper: Swiftness of the Fox: make it proc on skill use rather than targets hit (Swiftness of the Fox currently activates based on targets hit, which is quite possibly a BUG) - Trapper: Thorned Roots: reduce to 50% or 70% of current damage at minimum. - Class base damage: increase overall damage of skills by 30-50%~ (open to adjustment, some will need far more than others) - QoL changes to some feats (i.e. Archery Stillness of the Forest should not rely on such a distance)
You still have your Trapper playstyle, and now stacking Recovery is actually effective. Overall, you should see substantial increases in damage and viability for all 3 paths, and Archery and Combat won't be aeons behind Trapper. Archery and Combat will still need some adjustments, but overall it'd be far easier to see where they stand in terms of balance. Additionally, the class could quite possibly do with an overall cooldown reduction of about 10-20%, but that's not absolutely necessary.
I would go for it but without the first change. It would still need to stack recovery which is possible with existing equipment but not an horrible amount. Return on Recovery is non linear in terms of time reduction so that extra 15% you will lose would be quite difficult to replace. Anyway if they do something like this I'll be happy to test it. I want to preserve the feeling and if a decent chance is given I'll try it.
I agree fully with @ralexinor and I already faced and tested it to be viable, basicaly anybody who tryed in past ralexinor trapper+longhshot build knows it's still possible, as with that build we only had 3 pts given to swiftness of the fox (9%) it was still working okish and I went further in fixing myself around ~5k recovery to be more fluid nobody here want to kill at the whole Swiftness of the Fox, but it require to be toned down, to be able to obtain an overall base damage increase.
Also Archery path to be in pair with Trapper doesn't even need that big changes, the trick again here is work on the talents and not the power itself, with merely two adjustment Archery would be viable like Trapper my suggestion are:
Bottomless Quiver: Your Ranged Powers have 8/16/24/32/40% shorter cooldowns. Your Melee Powers have 4/8/12/16/20% shorter cooldowns.
Predator: Using a ranged encounter power on a foe applies Prey to your target. You deal 65% additional damage to your Prey. You may only have 1 prey at a time and may not reapply Prey until it expires. Prey lasts 15 seconds or until the Prey dies. This feat is only half as effective on players.
Combat instead is more problematic and cannot be fixed with just two small changes so I won't go in there as combat tree need a wider rework to get in pair with the other two.
The issue of HR are two, our powers have the highest CD and the lowest damage when confronted with other DPS classes, so definitively either those CD get cutted at least by 1/3 at the whole and then we get a damage boost, or indeed we need some talents that reduce your CD which is why the most are playing Trapper, but is true as well that a 0sec CD is and was never the goal that devel wanted to make us achieve which is why Trapper can be considered bugged.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Wait Krondor, you had 9% but still multi procs from multi-hit powers. Ralexinor is proposing a double reduction, that's why I'll be cautios in following him completely. I have approximately 5k of recovery (4.9k IIRC) and without multiprocs I see holes in the rotation in live. Obviuously if we get an overall damage buff I can remove some power/crit enchants and go for more recovery but keep in mind that new players with less geared character will definitely struggle if they have to start filling gaps with the at-wills we see today....
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
@landelmer stop being a spoilt kid and read posts properly. And stop with the exaggeration. There's not even hundreds of HR players in the game, tbh, and even if there were, I highly doubt they'd leave over this.
As @kangkeok said in the HR forums, the nerfs I'm proposing aren't to entirely remove the "feel" of Trapper as you call it, but to tone it down so that it's inline with the other paths, and then buff the entire base class so that all 3 paths have enough damage and viability.
Since apparently people can't read:
- Trapper: Swiftness of the Fox: reduce to 10% instead of 15% - Trapper: Swiftness of the Fox: make it proc on skill use rather than targets hit (Swiftness of the Fox currently activates based on targets hit, which is quite possibly a BUG) - Trapper: Thorned Roots: reduce to 50% or 70% of current damage at minimum. - Class base damage: increase overall damage of skills by 30-50%~ (open to adjustment, some will need far more than others) - QoL changes to some feats (i.e. Archery Stillness of the Forest should not rely on such a distance)
You still have your Trapper playstyle, and now stacking Recovery is actually effective. Overall, you should see substantial increases in damage and viability for all 3 paths, and Archery and Combat won't be aeons behind Trapper. Archery and Combat will still need some adjustments, but overall it'd be far easier to see where they stand in terms of balance. Additionally, the class could quite possibly do with an overall cooldown reduction of about 10-20%, but that's not absolutely necessary.
I would go for it but without the first change. It would still need to stack recovery which is possible with existing equipment but not an horrible amount. Return on Recovery is non linear in terms of time reduction so that extra 15% you will lose would be quite difficult to replace. Anyway if they do something like this I'll be happy to test it. I want to preserve the feeling and if a decent chance is given I'll try it.
I agree fully with @ralexinor and I already faced and tested it to be viable, basicaly anybody who tryed in past ralexinor trapper+longhshot build knows it's still possible, as with that build we only had 3 pts given to swiftness of the fox (9%) it was still working okish and I went further in fixing myself around ~5k recovery to be more fluid nobody here want to kill at the whole Swiftness of the Fox, but it require to be toned down, to be able to obtain an overall base damage increase.
Also Archery path to be in pair with Trapper doesn't even need that big changes, the trick again here is work on the talents and not the power itself, with merely two adjustment Archery would be viable like Trapper my suggestion are:
Bottomless Quiver: Your Ranged Powers have 8/16/24/32/40% shorter cooldowns. Your Melee Powers have 4/8/12/16/20% shorter cooldowns.
Predator: Using a ranged encounter power on a foe applies Prey to your target. You deal 65% additional damage to your Prey. You may only have 1 prey at a time and may not reapply Prey until it expires. Prey lasts 15 seconds or until the Prey dies. This feat is only half as effective on players.
Combat instead is more problematic and cannot be fixed with just two small changes so I won't go in there as combat tree need a wider rework to get in pair with the other two.
The issue of HR are two, our powers have the highest CD and the lowest damage when confronted with other DPS classes, so definitively either those CD get cutted at least by 1/3 at the whole and then we get a damage boost, or indeed we need some talents that reduce your CD which is why the most are playing Trapper, but is true as well that a 0sec CD is and was never the goal that devel wanted to make us achieve which is why Trapper can be considered bugged.
the capstone reduction is already unnecessary. its unnecessary in live and it s in preview
Wait Krondor, you had 9% but still multi procs from multi-hit powers. Ralexinor is proposing a double reduction, that's why I'll be cautios in following him completely. I have approximately 5k of recovery (4.9k IIRC) and without multiprocs I see holes in the rotation in live. Obviuously if we get an overall damage buff I can remove some power/crit enchants and go for more recovery but keep in mind that new players with less geared character will definitely struggle if they have to start filling gaps with the at-wills we see today....
I know what @ralexinor said exactly, and I still agree as that is part of the bug, as it's not intended to anybody to be able to reach a 0sec CD, in fact I didn't said to just fix Swiftness but I also said at the same time that our overall CD need be cutted by 1/3 at the whole (plus a dmg boost) only if this as well get done then all 3 trees will become more competitive and it's time we start stacking some recovery like rest of DPS classes to achieve a sufficient fluidity in our rotation; it's about a give and get in return, you need to look at the bigger picture here, which is clear that nobody want just to give up (the only thing left that is keeping the HR class alive) without get the adequate compensation in return.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Ok. Before I understood that the 30% cooldown reduction was your overall target including Swiftness. Thanks for the clarification. In that case I would definitely agree.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
After reading the full list of proposed first-round changes, I don't see how my 3.1k SW Archer and 3.2k SW Combat HRs are going to perform any better than they currently do compared with Trappers. Besides the fact that our base damage is too low, the problem lies in that far too many feats in both Archery and Combat are rubbish and sub-par to Trapper. Think about what makes Archery and Combat work and gives us feats that compliment them. HRs don't need AP Gain, which makes Keen Eye an amusing choice. I still believe that Stillness of the Forest needs a rework as the idea of long-range snipers don't work in NW group content - we miss out on all the crucial party buffs. Combat needs more Deflect - the previous tree was gutted by the first rework and Fluid Hunter doesn't come close to what the former feat provided. I don't even know what to say about Skirmisher's Gambit other than it doesn't belong in the Combat tree. Lucky Blades, once again, provides AP Gain that is not needed by HRs so useless. The capstone Blade Hurricane is pishpoor compared to even Archery. Those are where the problems lie in the top two trees. Those feats are underwhelming and need to be improved along with buffing our base damage.
Oh and PLEASE for the love of the gods increase OH weapon damage to the same as MH. Two blades shouldn't be less effective than a bow - why would you think that it does?
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Ok. Before I understood that the 30% cooldown reduction was your overall target including Swiftness. Thanks for the clarification. In that case I would definitely agree.
Yes it's the only way to benefit all 3 trees at once which is what I mean as the bigger picture.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
A SW combat build spamming CtG has like 1/50th the DPS of a GWF spamming WMS. This is just so wrong, so fundamentally wrong.
They do most of their changes for a game mode where only 5% of the total players actually play PVP. By trying to satisfy the 5% and then **** the 95% is totally wrong. I don't play PVP. I tried and then realized I have to hit a Guardian Fighter 30 times to kill him and then realized it wasn't for me. This is truly a PVE game. They make you use different gear for PVP, they make you prioritize different stats for PVP, then why do you nerf PVE moves to satisfy PVP players? If this game was 100% open PVP like Ivewind dale then I get it. But it ain't.
That's so wrong, the proposed changes we did aim to fix the HR so that all 3 trees becomes useful and it will open to diversification which is the same goal said from devel, the CD reduction and dmg boost will bring us in pair with other class in PVE, but this will be nowhere true as well concerning PVP, as to achieve that as well we need at least one encounter or daily that avoid armor penetration at the whole, but I doubt they want see us fixed in PVP, as nothing done so far concerns PVP even more it went into a nerf in that direction so far, so what you said here is total mindless.
Feedback from a PVE trapper: I spent some time on killing some mobs in well of dragon on preview. Overall, I think all the changes will give a slight boost to PVE trapper in dungeons. The performance of trial like edemo and tiamat needs further test. I list my opinions on the powers I often use. Cold Steel Hurricane: This power will now dissipate if it hits 10 total targets along its path. Not sure about this one, but the change seems reasonable. Binding Arrow: if you fix the roots bug, it is nice due to the slight damage increase. Oak Skin: I am happy to see the utility boost. Constricting Arrow: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. It is nice due to the slight damage increase. Steel Breeze: Damage increased ~75%, but radius reduced to 15', down from 20'. Well, I read that the charges will be gone. We get a bit more damage but a small radius. It is OK. Longstrider's Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. It is nice due to the slight damage increase. Gushing Wound: As a very useful power for elite mobs and bosses, I am very happy to see the change. Split the Sky: It is nice to see the damage boost. Plant Growth: Now properly has a target cap of 5. If my test was correct, the current cap is 6. Could you confirm the current cap or simply write the information of the current cap in the patch notes? So it is a small nerf, I can take that.
Again I cannot say this enough: Players will quit over the charges in Steel Breeze. @ralexinor no longer plays the game so even if his observations are valid he is no longer a stakeholder. Someone said there are not hundreds of HRs, well you are not considering all the platforms. There are hundreds of hunters all over the world. Most of who want Steel Breeze nerfed don't even run the power. Personally I will take lower damage to keep my Steel Breeze the way it is. A lot of us would. There are other ways to fix this issue than nerfing one of the go to powers for the trapper.
Again this firm will kill itself by only listening to the elite that post in here. You guys are over represented. Most Xbox players do not use the forums and still think HRs will be fixed. If this Steel Breeze with charges hits you will see most HRs go the way of the Pally in PVE.
Call me stupid and use all the logical fallacies you want concerning my argument. This firm offers this game because it is profitable. If the Devs continue to nerf all the characters people will leave and not return. The grind is too steep for new casual players already. More nerfs will equal less paying customers. Once the game is gone all this talk about what a few elitists want will be irreverent.
They do most of their changes for a game mode where only 5% of the total players actually play PVP. By trying to satisfy the 5% and then **** the 95% is totally wrong. I don't play PVP. I tried and then realized I have to hit a Guardian Fighter 30 times to kill him and then realized it wasn't for me. This is truly a PVE game. They make you use different gear for PVP, they make you prioritize different stats for PVP, then why do you nerf PVE moves to satisfy PVP players? If this game was 100% open world PVP like Ivewind dale then I get it. But it ain't.
The goal for a developer is not to satisfy only the majority ( PVE player) of the game population. From a corporate perspective, it is wise to balance out and satisfy both PVE and the so called 5% of PVP community so it may grow in balance with each other. A healthy game will have alot of player that played both PVP and PVE. To keep the game healthy, they need to make some PVE player to be interested in pvp. Only with this healthy environment, it might attract more player from other game especially the vast MMO pvp community out there. I can tell u PVP community is huge in the world of MMO. There are game that consist of all PVP player and they do PVE just to equip themselves or when they are bored which is healthy because they played both content. Confining player solely to PVE or PVP will only doom the game in time.
I see the potential of this game as i started out playing PVE but later on, after trying gauntglym during mod4, PVP began to interest me and i played both content. Till mod 6 disaster came, i stop pvp and only pve. PVP could be fun again if they really work on it. A balancing that take both PVE and PVP interest into consideration is a step to make the game popular.
Again I cannot say this enough: Players will quit over the charges in Steel Breeze. @ralexinor no longer plays the game so even if his observations are valid he is no longer a stakeholder. Someone said there are not hundreds of HRs, well you are not considering all the platforms. There are hundreds of hunters all over the world. Most of who want Steel Breeze nerfed don't even run the power. Personally I will take lower damage to keep my Steel Breeze the way it is. A lot of us would. There are other ways to fix this issue than nerfing one of the go to powers for the trapper.
Again this firm will kill itself by only listening to the elite that post in here. You guys are over represented. Most Xbox players do not use the forums and still think HRs will be fixed. If this Steel Breeze with charges hits you will see most HRs go the way of the Pally in PVE.
Call me stupid and use all the logical fallacies you want concerning my argument. This firm offers this game because it is profitable. If the Devs continue to nerf all the characters people will leave and not return. The grind is too steep for new casual players already. More nerfs will equal less paying customers. Once the game is gone all this talk about what a few elitists want will be irreverent.
It's not about be elite, its about experience, there's ppl here that plays Neverwinter since the start of the game or even the beta (in my case) so indeed we see your comment come from somebody that doesn't know the class deep enough and is not listen either to what we are saying or high probable you are unable to understand what we are expose, since everything we say goes in the direction to fix the root of the prb and make our lovely HR class become better and not worser at all (and yes some of the proposed rework devel did so far are making things worser), the problem is players like you that doesn't bring positive feedbacks since all you can do is moan and blame based on no sense due a lack of knowledge of the class you are playing, read closer what are our proposal and solutions we are bringing on the table, nobody here want to nerf our class without get the correct reward back.
Post edited by krondhor on
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Again I cannot say this enough: Players will quit over the charges in Steel Breeze. @ralexinor no longer plays the game so even if his observations are valid he is no longer a stakeholder. Someone said there are not hundreds of HRs, well you are not considering all the platforms. There are hundreds of hunters all over the world. Most of who want Steel Breeze nerfed don't even run the power. Personally I will take lower damage to keep my Steel Breeze the way it is. A lot of us would. There are other ways to fix this issue than nerfing one of the go to powers for the trapper.
Again this firm will kill itself by only listening to the elite that post in here. You guys are over represented. Most Xbox players do not use the forums and still think HRs will be fixed. If this Steel Breeze with charges hits you will see most HRs go the way of the Pally in PVE.
Call me stupid and use all the logical fallacies you want concerning my argument. This firm offers this game because it is profitable. If the Devs continue to nerf all the characters people will leave and not return. The grind is too steep for new casual players already. More nerfs will equal less paying customers. Once the game is gone all this talk about what a few elitists want will be irreverent.
Over-dramatic much? This game (and more importantly this class) would be in a much better state if the devs listened to @ralexinor, who along with @thedemien has done more for the HR community than anyone else. I respect the advice she gives because she is one of the few HRs who know what is actually going on with the class, despite not even playing anymore. One little nerf (even if I abhor the charge mechanic) will not cause a HR exodus - not like we saw with the advent of Mod 6.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Again I cannot say this enough: Players will quit over the charges in Steel Breeze. @ralexinor no longer plays the game so even if his observations are valid he is no longer a stakeholder. Someone said there are not hundreds of HRs, well you are not considering all the platforms. There are hundreds of hunters all over the world. Most of who want Steel Breeze nerfed don't even run the power. Personally I will take lower damage to keep my Steel Breeze the way it is. A lot of us would. There are other ways to fix this issue than nerfing one of the go to powers for the trapper.
Again this firm will kill itself by only listening to the elite that post in here. You guys are over represented. Most Xbox players do not use the forums and still think HRs will be fixed. If this Steel Breeze with charges hits you will see most HRs go the way of the Pally in PVE.
Call me stupid and use all the logical fallacies you want concerning my argument. This firm offers this game because it is profitable. If the Devs continue to nerf all the characters people will leave and not return. The grind is too steep for new casual players already. More nerfs will equal less paying customers. Once the game is gone all this talk about what a few elitists want will be irreverent.
Over-dramatic much? I bet you've been playing NW for six months at most. This game (and more importantly this class) would be in a much better state if the devs listened to @ralexinor, who along with @thedemien has done more for the HR community than anyone else. I respect the advice she gives because she is one of the few HRs who know what is actually going on with the class, despite not even playing anymore. One little nerf (even if I abhor the charge mechanic) will not cause a HR exodus - not like we saw with the advent of Mod 6.
Logical fallacies in an attempt invalidate my argument.
Come find me on Xbox I've been around for a long time and I very much contribute to the community. I just don't wear it on my sleeve. Say what you will about me but profit provides you with a free game, this forum to complain on, bash, and hone your use of logical fallacies.
NO CUSTOMERS=NO REVENUE=NO NEVERWINTER
Learn to see the long term effects of the unintended consequences.
Comments
Heck I will make it really simple for you CUSTOMERS=REVENUE=NEVERWINTER, NO CUSTOMERS= NO REVENUE= NO NEVERWINTER. How is that logic for you?
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
> 3. Oak skin procs instant ranged and longstrider procs instant melee cooldowns
>
>
>
> Is this a product of number of allies affected?
test in in live, works every time when in a full party, im not a good ACT tracker, but yeah they gives ya full cools on every encounter, check Sumes videos in you tube, (Suwantemee), also check the wilds forum, this rotations are posted there.
Fix things before balancing, gd it.
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
It's not module 6.^^ Would be especially nice to see "permadaze" in action against GWF/GF/opressor CW in action... and TR ofc
these changes dont help at all
I mentioned it in my original post but I sense the furor over charges on steel breeze were the main focal point at that time. I'd like to ask / restate, @amenar why on earth has the range of marauders been reduced? Moving around in combat stance as a HR is nearly as burdensome as on a CW, except we don't quite possess the same ability to completely immobilize, stun and proc lifesteal tics while in melee. The range distance was actually one of the nicer feeling advantages of slotting marauders when you are using it. Others may not feel as I do, but I have to ask, if it was not considered broken, then why is this being changed??? It seems entirely unneccesary to me. I'd like to see this rework come away feeling like an improvement overall.
Feedback: Aimed shot - .25 second reduction in charge time, still doubt I would slot it as a trapper, cast time is just too long and you are locked in stance while casting it, which can only be broken by shifting. It was nice not having it interupted but really if you are taking tier 2 or upcoming T3 mob level damage while casting it you better move anyway = zero dps so not really something I'd invest in.
Rapid shot: Definitely did not feel like an improvement, but as your notes suggest I am at a higher ilvl. Rapid strike was similar, I don't expect to see the same at will damage as a TR using flurry but the skill could use a bigger buff.
Split Shot: already mentioned I prob would use it rarely, it could be great again, but it's not lol. Split strike felt utterly underwhelming, another reason not to slot this as a bread and butter at will. The animation on this skill has always been annoying to me, if it performed more like an AoE should feel then that might make it worthwhile, but again, damage level feels like you are a weasel gnawing on foghorn leghorns foot. The range could be increased a little as well.
Plant growth: I pulled a bunch of mobs together into a cordon then switched to plant growth. I can't imagine using this in a dungeon like the zombie hallway of CN without a nice CW that has icy veins, esp if you are dropping the cap on GF's enforced threat, granted I wouldn't ordinarily try to over pull stuff, but I wanted to see how it felt with a larger mob group. Target cap of 5 may be reasonable for dailies but this feels like a nerf. You've written that it now properly caps at 5...maybe I've missed something o.O?
Tried these on my Stormwarden and will try some of the other changes on my Pathfinder. Sorry but split the sky is still too weak to even consider slotting.
maybe this is not the goal tho
Also Archery path to be in pair with Trapper doesn't even need that big changes, the trick again here is work on the talents and not the power itself, with merely two adjustment Archery would be viable like Trapper my suggestion are:
Bottomless Quiver: Your Ranged Powers have 8/16/24/32/40% shorter cooldowns.
Your Melee Powers have 4/8/12/16/20% shorter cooldowns.
Predator: Using a ranged encounter power on a foe applies Prey to your target. You deal 65% additional damage to your Prey. You may only have 1 prey at a time and may not reapply Prey until it expires. Prey lasts 15 seconds or until the Prey dies. This feat is only half as effective on players.
Combat instead is more problematic and cannot be fixed with just two small changes so I won't go in there as combat tree need a wider rework to get in pair with the other two.
The issue of HR are two, our powers have the highest CD and the lowest damage when confronted with other DPS classes, so definitively either those CD get cutted at least by 1/3 at the whole and then we get a damage boost, or indeed we need some talents that reduce your CD which is why the most are playing Trapper, but is true as well that a 0sec CD is and was never the goal that devel wanted to make us achieve which is why Trapper can be considered bugged.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Oh and PLEASE for the love of the gods increase OH weapon damage to the same as MH. Two blades shouldn't be less effective than a bow - why would you think that it does?
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I spent some time on killing some mobs in well of dragon on preview. Overall, I think all the changes will give a slight boost to PVE trapper in dungeons. The performance of trial like edemo and tiamat needs further test. I list my opinions on the powers I often use.
Cold Steel Hurricane: This power will now dissipate if it hits 10 total targets along its path. Not sure about this one, but the change seems reasonable.
Binding Arrow: if you fix the roots bug, it is nice due to the slight damage increase.
Oak Skin: I am happy to see the utility boost.
Constricting Arrow: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. It is nice due to the slight damage increase.
Steel Breeze: Damage increased ~75%, but radius reduced to 15', down from 20'. Well, I read that the charges will be gone. We get a bit more damage but a small radius. It is OK.
Longstrider's Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. It is nice due to the slight damage increase.
Gushing Wound: As a very useful power for elite mobs and bosses, I am very happy to see the change.
Split the Sky: It is nice to see the damage boost.
Plant Growth: Now properly has a target cap of 5. If my test was correct, the current cap is 6. Could you confirm the current cap or simply write the information of the current cap in the patch notes? So it is a small nerf, I can take that.
Join the Greycloaks
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician
Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
Players will quit over the charges in Steel Breeze. @ralexinor no longer plays the game so even if his observations are valid he is no longer a stakeholder. Someone said there are not hundreds of HRs, well you are not considering all the platforms. There are hundreds of hunters all over the world. Most of who want Steel Breeze nerfed don't even run the power. Personally I will take lower damage to keep my Steel Breeze the way it is. A lot of us would. There are other ways to fix this issue than nerfing one of the go to powers for the trapper.
Again this firm will kill itself by only listening to the elite that post in here. You guys are over represented. Most Xbox players do not use the forums and still think HRs will be fixed. If this Steel Breeze with charges hits you will see most HRs go the way of the Pally in PVE.
Call me stupid and use all the logical fallacies you want concerning my argument. This firm offers this game because it is profitable. If the Devs continue to nerf all the characters people will leave and not return. The grind is too steep for new casual players already. More nerfs will equal less paying customers. Once the game is gone all this talk about what a few elitists want will be irreverent.
I see the potential of this game as i started out playing PVE but later on, after trying gauntglym during mod4, PVP began to interest me and i played both content. Till mod 6 disaster came, i stop pvp and only pve. PVP could be fun again if they really work on it. A balancing that take both PVE and PVP interest into consideration is a step to make the game popular.
It's not about be elite, its about experience, there's ppl here that plays Neverwinter since the start of the game or even the beta (in my case) so indeed we see your comment come from somebody that doesn't know the class deep enough and is not listen either to what we are saying or high probable you are unable to understand what we are expose, since everything we say goes in the direction to fix the root of the prb and make our lovely HR class become better and not worser at all (and yes some of the proposed rework devel did so far are making things worser), the problem is players like you that doesn't bring positive feedbacks since all you can do is moan and blame based on no sense due a lack of knowledge of the class you are playing, read closer what are our proposal and solutions we are bringing on the table, nobody here want to nerf our class without get the correct reward back.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Come find me on Xbox I've been around for a long time and I very much contribute to the community. I just don't wear it on my sleeve. Say what you will about me but profit provides you with a free game, this forum to complain on, bash, and hone your use of logical fallacies.
NO CUSTOMERS=NO REVENUE=NO NEVERWINTER
Learn to see the long term effects of the unintended consequences.