@amenar Please fix our buggy Passives. Aspect of the Serpent gives 2% crit per stack for a total of 4%. Suppose to be 2.5% crit per stack for a total of 5%. Also the max dmg it is giving is 31% not 34%. Lastly Blade Storm doesn't with proc with Plant Growth. HR Dragonborns encounter powers cool downs dont function properly with the Trapper at times. Absolutely nobody is getting Action Point Gain stats added into there "Offensive and Healing" from insignias, jewel kits, and all artifacts.
Thanks for the feedback. I can't reply to each question in depth, but we are looking into things. Few quick points:
Steel Breeze - Certainly open to rethinking the charges, but I'd hope that you at least give it a shot for a bit before deciding it's no good. Our internal HR's have been very happy with the change. Based on what we've seen so far, going back to the old way would make it weaker.
If I can actually get onto preview I will keep an open mind about your request to test it, but for my playstyle, steel breeze is lackluster as it is now but I use it primarily as a filler in my rotation. You get some AP and stamina, a damage boost would be welcome but charges will interupt the flow of one of the more popular rotations for a Trapper. Some of the other buffed powers you are describing will not dethrone constricting arrow from an encounter slot, and you are just adding an annoyance factor to the skill.
I'm not opposed to changing playstyle, I've done so on many toons, such as when charges were introduced to threatening rush on IV GWF - hated that change at the time as well, but over time other skills were obviously found to be better. I don't see that with some of the skills that are being buffed. Split the sky, thorn ward, yeah no thanks. Trapper as it is now is fun to play because it is quick and chaotic, but they are damage lightweights, they do 'reasonable' damage only because they are capable of spamming their attacks quickly. Archery and combat can't compete with trapper, so it's become the best option in a poor situation. No offense to your internal rangers, but if they are pleased with any type of "charge" on a trapper build then I seriously doubt they tested beyond firing off one rotation.
Edit: got onto preview
1.) Marauders Rush, decreased range was unnceccesary, this now makes the skill feel awkward, what was the reason for shortening the distance???
2.) As I expected, steel breeze is a pain with charges, tested as you asked, sorry it is just bad in a longer fight with larger groups of higher level mobs.
3.) Damage buffs are noticeable but just barely, which seems to be what you aimed for based on the description at higher levels, but the result is you have added some annoyances with very little in return, in fact overall your changes feel like a nerf on popular rotations.
4.) Shift does not feel like it has changed much, immunity frames still feel like they are not WAI. will test this more, you still take damage late in the cast of marauder's escape, I've never been able to determine if this has always been poor animation timing or just not WAI, but while you have the hood up maybe you could tweak that, a high level elite should not be able to appear to inflict damage when I am supposedly 30 feet away.
5.) Seismic shot buff seems nice.
6.) Split shot has been nerfed so much over the years that this buff seems hardly noticeable, cant' say I'd slot it except to pull aggro on purpose.
7.) Fix to gushing wound looks to be a winner, hated its stab into thin air.
8.) Increased AoE for rain of arrows is a welcome change that I have wished for since I rolled a HR. It's a task specific skill but when I do slot it, it was finicky to keep on target unless you are very tanky and using it in melee range.
1)Binding Arrow still applies Thorned Roots? I saw some people saying it doesn't. 2)Other Encounter powers that apply Roots (or Thorned Roots if you have the feat) like Hindering Shot, Hindering Strike and Constricting Arrow, were they nerfed? 3)Cordon of Arrows got nerfed? 4)Crushing Roots?
My questions are much more for PVE since i want to pull as much critters as possible to a single point and start to Perma-Daze-Thorned-Roots them.
@amenar you guys can also add some burst damage to HR. My guildmates gave a nice proposal, that slasher's mark can be upgraded to something like shadow of demise on TR: e.g. when the mark expires the target gets the damage proportional to all damage taken from HR while the mark was active. That would definitely work. And in case you decide to implement that (which i also doubt), it needs a cooldown of 15-20 seconds You can also change one of the useless passives like battlehoned for that purpose.
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
@amenar if you guys REALLY want constructive feedback (which i highely doubt, tbh), I will show you some ACT logs from PTR when fighting a TR, a GWF, a CW, etc... You do not realize that only ONE (trapper) path on HR is viable in PVP and PVE despite of that "balance" you are trying to bring. And on that path HR is extremely WEAK in comparison to other classes in PVP. As for PVE: HR is and was fine on trapper path, and it would be fine until you break it completely.
When i fight a GWF i deal like 3-5k damage on him with fox shift, thorned roots, whatever. My at-wills hit him for less then 1k, whereas if i allow him to build his stacks and get all possible self buffs (hidden daggers, mark from daring shout, etc) he can land 2x50k Indomitable Strength, 70-100k IBS on me, and his at-wills (sure strike) will hit me for like 20-30k, if i don't avoid that. TR can land 70k up to 140k Shocking Execution hit to me, or over 200k with ITF buff from GF. I'm not even talking about GF here.
How am i supposed to kill other classes as striker class with powers that hit for 10-25x less, whereas all this damage on HR is slow ticking DoTs??? Or should i just proc 5-8k aimed shot on people who have HP over 200k, if i'm extremely lucky to proc it without getting interrupted by CC or killed while i'm trying to land it???
FYI, Aimed shot should hit for something like 60-80k on BiS people in PVP to be viable. On my BiS HR I hit BiS GWF with negation with 20% effectiveness. That means that it's damage with something like 20k power and 30 dex with BiS main hand and off-hand should be over 250k!!!
Do you want a detailed explanation how to fix HR? Do you want videos? I will provide you everything, if you really want to bring HR in line, but either way i won't move my finger, because it's kinda useless to waste a time on people who don't really give a **** about their game.
you look like still have will begging for something, if you can make a video where you fight other classes and post it everywhere, send it to cryptics mails. this kind of proof and publicity can work when anything else is wasted... th
there is something wonky going on with Binding arrow - I used it in place of constricting and it didnt fire off roots the first couple of tries but eventually it did pick up and was proccing roots every time... I couldnt begin to try and explain this.
Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
Thanks for the feedback. I can't reply to each question in depth, but we are looking into things. Few quick points:
Hawk Eye - We saw the thread, we're looking into it. Thanks for the detailed info.
About the intent for Trapper - the intent was for it to end up in a better position than it is on live, though not massively. Internal testing shows this to be the case, but please give us any data you have.
Commanding Shot - Definitely not intended as a nerf, as the power is virtually unused in its current state on live. The way it was setup, it should not have provided any damage boost when a target had no defense/armor left. It's possible (because our system is... complex) that in certain cases, it might behave similarly to doing so, though. Our testing so far has shown that this power has been improved quite a bit, but we'll keep looking at it. It's worth pointing out that you didn't comment on several of the other changes to the power - it got a huge damage increase (almost 60%), and its cooldown was reduced. The cooldown reduction is part of why the debuff duration was reduced, because the uptime on the debuff is still about the same.
Steel Breeze - Certainly open to rethinking the charges, but I'd hope that you at least give it a shot for a bit before deciding it's no good. Our internal HR's have been very happy with the change. Based on what we've seen so far, going back to the old way would make it weaker.
Feedback: Hello! thank you for your reply! I took off some of the replies you made as i have no arguement against them.
Hawkeye - yes please look more into it, as it currently stands in live, this is already easy to proc, make it 5 seconds longer and only on encounters, you are basically giving us a machine gun on a knife fight in a mud filled arena. Also, i dont like crybabies who keeps saying "you are just stealing our dps." meh.
Intent for Trapper - If it was to better up the place of trappers in live, I think you may have had this wrong. Personally(and i think a lot of above average HRs would also agree too) increasing the damage of Steel Breeze, at the cost of smaller AoE and enforcing forced cooldowns(charges at 15sec cd) would limit a trapper rotation to like 3 or 4 rotations and then you stand there waiting for cooldowns to go, while dealing very minimal damage via at will is not very appealing as a "buff" but more as a "nerf." No one who would want to do better at live would choose an enforced cooldown for a little damage buff, as it would mess up the rotation, which is the only reason as to how HRs can do massive damage to be on par with other classes with their burst damage encounters/dailies and at wills.
If this was meant as a nerf, then it is a whole other story and i can accept nerfs if you admit the stupidity of the rumor that HRs are the underdogs and underperforms(at least in PVE).
Commanding Shot - definitely serves as a nerf with the upcoming changes, Not a lot use it because they are not aware on how much a big debuff it serves on live. On live, on raids, this is one of the most useful debuffs in the game. There are no issues with the cooldown, as you can have it in a rotation and freely have everything on cooldown. Casting time reduced and damage buff seems good on paper, but with the loss of the debuff, if this goes live, then with this "unintended nerf," you are taking away a viable encounter that can compensate a loss of personal dps to overall effectivenes of party in raids.
Also, since we are on the being honest page, is Commanding shot not supposed to stack from different users? If not, then cool i may have exploiting a "bug" but if it was supposed to, then kindly fix it. debuff doesnt stack if both rank 4 commanding shot is used, but if someone has it at a different rank,(i.e. rank 1,2,or 3) then the debuff stacks. I shared this because I want this upcoming changes to be really helpful and useful to the community.
Steel Breeze - like what i said earlier, I see increasing its damage at the cost of having charges which enforces cooldown is a nerf, not a buff. I dont think no one uses steel breeze to mainly do damage, they use this to gain stamina back, hit enemies and reduce the cooldown of encounters. Again, this is a nerf, not a buff so kindly reconsider it again if nerf was not intended.
Lastly, having AoE targets cap at 5? is this for all the classes? Are we butchering too fast so we had to be limited to just 5 targets for our AoEs? (general question overall for all the classes and the game as a whole).
Thank you and I am really looking forward to your next reply/update to us here in the forums.
People don't say this much, but your replies are much much appreciated.
Steel Breeze charges is not that awful in PVP, but it can affect PVE, so better idea is just to revert that back. Moreover range of that encounter should remain the same, because it has impact on both PVP and PVE.
Forest Meditation rework is awful. On live you can cancel the skill by dodging from it. That means it can successfuly be used to counter prones and other CC and it's often crucial to cancel the power immediately after you avoided the prone/CC. To cancel the skill on Preview you need 1st to press the same button, and 2nd to dodge after cancelling it. That means that generally you have a chance to get proned right between cancelling the skill and dodging. And I guess it's not nessesary to say that Forest Meditation is only useful in PVP.
Dodge range changes seems bugged or not noticeable at all.
ABSOLUTE
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romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
@amenar Hunter Ranger Stormwarden Class Feat: Blade Storm: "When dealing melee damage, you have 25% chance to deal an additional 5% of your attack's damage in an area around you. +5% / point spent in this skill."
The melee attack is increased by all the buffs/debuffs, then Blade Storm takes 20% of that high value and it's getting increased by all the buffs/debuffs again. Then 30 mil hits happen:
@amenar 1. Steel breaz with charges... is so bad now. Damage up - is nice, but not charges. Please return state without charge.
2. Feat: Forestbond please up to 7.5 or 10% cd. Now in pvp in 1v1 HR suffer CD problem. (because of steel breaz too)
3. Roots vs elvenBattle ench - do not have DoT damage. This need to be fixed.
4. ElvBat ench is overpowered with control resist. BiS players have a lot of CR and EB ench - give them too much CR.
5. Forest Meditation rework is awful. HR must have opportunity to dodge from meditation.
6. Plant Growth: Now properly has a target cap of 5. -> this is damage nerf. You told no nerfs? lol...
7. All buff skills need to be reworked. To make them more usefull -> make cast speed faster. No one will use buff skills just because you lost so many time when you can deal damage.
8. Feat: Thorned Roots: When used in conjunction with the Class Feature Crushing Roots, Thorned Roots would apply the Daze twice. In most cases, this would manifest as just causing the Daze to last about 0.1s longer. This has been fixed. Return this 0.1s!
9. It seems that New Shift do not work like expected.
10. Commanding Shot like other powers that "lower resist" NOW on live works like debuff! Why you think that this power decreaces DR?
11. Damage per rank of Thorned Roots, for a maximum total of 425% Weapon Damage at Rank 5. This has been changed to now do 1 tick of damage for 200% + 50% per rank, for a maximum of 450% at Rank 5. 450/425 = 5% buff of damage is a joke?
12. Battlehoned - need rework! More than a year! Cruel recovery too.
13. Pathfinder actions still do not work like intended.
There is so "COOL DAMAGE" and "permadaze" in pvp vs not good geared players: enjoy it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Gfgsq0nnrI Now players have 130-200k HP... and heal 50% in few seconds... HR deal 1-5k damage vs good geared players. "balance".
Trapper -> need's burst\piercing damage for PvP. Combat -> more damage for pve\pvp and posibility to live vs monsters in EPIC dungeons. Archery -> i don't know what to do with archery in pvp. but in pve just rework some feats to do more damage.
@amenar wondering who these "internal HRs" are, honestly. as far as I can tell (according to this "rework"), they know nothing about the class me and a lot of other players main. So PLEASE, ask the real HRs who are willing to help instead of just throwing changes without even playing the class.
Also, if you guys want to kill the pvp-side of the game just do it alredy... stop making people hope for possible changes and instead throwing them just a bunch of... whatever you wanna call.
This is true. Why not ask some one who plays neverwinter
I play HR since m3. Have a lot of experience, and now i see just absurd changes. With good GWF i go to CN and we have 100\80kk of damage ( i played with blade of storm, look up), this new "balance" can't help me to do more, maybe less... If we will talk about pvp...i can see any changes except trapper nerf. If you want to do good -> do it, but t not vice versa.
I am sorry for my complains, but it is a very important and serious theme for me and many other players.
upd 1st -> gwf 2nd -> hr
384vs213k DPS (other dungeon run)
and this with storm blades ->
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hypergorila2Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 73Arc User
edited July 2016
Rain of Arrows: Increased radius to 10 feet, up from 6 feet.
This change shows me that who designed these changes clearly doesn't know he HR class and not much of the game itself. It also shows me that the internal HR used for testing are only people how rolled a HR for the purpose of testing these changes.
While a radius increase might look good on paper, on practice, in this particular power, its a nerf, and a pretty big one. The way ROA works is that when u cast it, u designate a AOE were arrows will land randomly, if they happen to hit something they do damage, if they don't, they won't do anything.
ROA is not for trash mobs clearing and increasing its AOE won't change this because of the previously described mechanics of it. This power is used to nuke "fat" mobs that are pinned down by a tank or to nuke bosses. While this change doesn't influence much when used on big bosses like Lostmauth or the beholder on CN, the AOE increase will reduce it's effectiveness by a lot when used on slim bosses like the second one on CN because most of the arrows will miss the target.
Don't believe me? Try going on live and use ROA on a test dummy (those immobile slim thingies) and see how many of the arrows will hit it. Then try it on preview with the increased AOE and see how many arrows will hit the dummy...
My point is that simply changing numbers on powers, like AOE, base damage, cooldowns for something that looks good, isn't a solution to buff stuff up and/or make it viable. To make powers viable one needs to understand the power mechanics and how they operate so that relevant changes can be made in order to reduce that given power shortcomings.
As an example (for what is worth it) I will give a suggestion on how to increase the effectiveness of ROA that it's not just a simple change in the powers numbers (AOE radius, cooldown, ...).
Make ROA work similarly to Icy Terrain. When casted u designate the AOE and after this, any monster inside the AOE will take damage, independently of it being hit by a arrow or not. When a arrow falls, any mob inside the area takes damage. This would probably need some adjustments on base damage per arrow, and/or the max targets cap (not that icy terrain as one) and/or the duration of the power, and/or the rate of fire of the arrows, but would make this power very effective and woudn't depend on your luck of were the arrows land.
Leaving ROA alone for now.
Shift: Increased the distance of each shift ~30%. Great change, I really appreciate it.
Steel Breeze: This power now has 3 charges. Recharge time between using charges is 3 seconds, and a new charge is gained every 15 seconds. This is bad, really bad despite what your internal HR might say. Trappers really really really need this for their rotation to work properly. These stacks will mess the rotation up and will force them to use at-will in between to get those serpent stacks, and at-wills even with the announced damage changes, are meaningless they would need a 1000% damage boost to do anything (I just said 1000 because it sounded a cool number and changing numbers to something greater seems to be the HR class adjustments motto)
Finally, I just hope that my post gets read by someone and that it might influence something. I was really reluctant on making a post this big and taking the time to write it because probably wont' change anything, but as a main HR player I had to do this post to clear my consciousness and so that I can say "at least I tried."
1. Aimed Shot: Thanks for trying to make this At-Will Power better, but I tell you where you failed on your goal, you did a Charge time reduction by 0.25s, it's still too slow and this is nowhere enough for us to wanna slot and be able to use it, At-Wills power as the name is self explanatory need to be the quickest powers we have to use, this means to make this power usable the casting cost need be halved from what is it now.
2. Ambush: This was reworked to make it become a little better and somewhat interesting, but again you failed on your goal, due (and let's say the truth for once) the melee counter part Bear Trap is one of the worst encounters we got since the start and still is after the rework, and nobody will slot and waste an encounter power that is usable only from one stance; Bear Trap is simple useless, remove that power at the whole and add something better at it's place instead, so that we can start use this encounter power inside our rotation in some builds and finally we will start talk about diversification as it's one of yours and ours goal as well.
3. Binding Arrow: The power is now broken and despite the animation still same, the root is not applied correctly.
4. Marauder's Rush: Why lower the range of a skill that was working as intended and was not OP, stop nerf what is good and worked as intended for 9 modules, revert this please.
5. Steel Breeze: The 3 charges with a 15sec cool down have ruined this skill, as everyone here said already, we HR's more than any other class relays on mobility and if you harm us one of the best encounter's to build the stamina I call this a nerf, so revert this please.
6. Forest Meditation: The rework again made things worser, remember this is our survival skill we use solely in PVP, which was supposely to make us recover hp while not getting harmed in meanwhile, which is untrue as certain classes (GF and TR on top) can kill us literally while under the usage of this power, so this skill should be changed in better and not in something even worser again, my suggestion is that Forest Meditation should be an impenetrable circle which nobody within 3-4" can enter, so that the recovery effect can be used until it's expiration time.
So far I am unhappy with the work done, and the ~10% dmg increase is nowhere enough to compensate the above disaster, you need listen more to HR community and talk directly with some of our best HR's in game cause we have given many feedbacks and suggestions over the past 2-3 years but nothing was done in the direction that our players are asking, we rather lost several HR's already that switched over a different class or quitted the game at the whole, so this is prolly for you the last chance to do something in the right direction if you don't want loose the remaining devoted HR left.
PS: blue is not enough readable in a black background, hence I adopted cyan
Post edited by krondhor on
GRAVITY XGAME
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arcticblitzMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 126Arc User
edited July 2016
Jumped on preview copied my archer spec across for a bit of a run Feedback - Aimed Shot I was keen to check it out again with the new changes, unfortunately i have to echo what the others are saying, it's just too slow for the return. On average rapidshot is matching or beating it with the added advantage of maneuverability. to make this an archers go to at-will at it's current speed it needs to do 2 - 3 times the current base damage or Half the current cast time leaving the damage the same. perhaps adding either bonus to the Predator feat
Feedback - Shift I didn't noticed any difference, I had shifted out of AOE's but still got hit. again as others have mentioned immunity frames and lag may be the issue
Will have a play with other powers later but these were the key ones i wanted to test right away.
Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger Guild Founder: -HunterS-
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Frankly , pvp has been corrupted by too much ARP and too much tenacity, until poeple see this, no class that doesnt deal basially huge burst damage will be well off.
They need to review PVP , the stats and how these interactions work. It wouldve better to just put a cap on crit severity to like 50% while flagged to pvp.. then to do what they have done.
As a top shelf HR my IL is 4269 with full Dragon flight for PVE and Lionsmane and rosegolds for PVP this is my feed back
1st HR is about mobility we need encounters that allow us to shoot then move we can not survive standing in 1 place in PVE or PVP. Over all for PVE we need shorter animations for our encounters this would be a great way to boost archery it hard to use big encounters due to you are closed on so fast by the time animation is over your in trouble
bugs and issues are
Rain of arrows does a lot less damage now against small single target is working correctly now
Binding Arrow: The power is now broken and despite the animation still same, the root is not applied correctly. roots are inconsistent some times animation but roots are not there
Steel breeze now causes gap in rotations. when moving and shooting running in to issues with cool downs now. in PVE soloing dragon patrols I now die due to go to use encounters and they are still in cool down and I am ponced on and killed do to 1/2 second hesitation. In pvp 1 vs 1 im using weak atwills do to loss of fast cool downs from steel breeze. You need to leave Steel breeze with damage boost and 1 hit as before or make it so gain is same as before on each hit. Every HR uses constrict/steel breeze combo its an intricate part of our class. Per dev is returning to way was thanks for listening to us
Forest Meditation: not working as described this daily was supposedly to make us recover hp while not getting harmed , this does not work GF and TRs kill us while under the usage of this power, please fix and now cant cancel FM except 1 out of 3 tries
New dodge needs adjusting does not seem to be working as described
new damage buffs over all show a bout a 3% increase at my level the penalties that are suffered far out weight the increase
For PVP for me to fight a 1 vs 1 against an equal class I stand no chance may as well be using a feather. When you can out play some one for 2 minutes and can t kill them it so irritating because of taking so long a TR arrives and does a 140k Se from invis . This is due to no burst damage please add a daily that gives burst damage or a 300% damage buff for so many seconds like other classes have.
Post edited by jhpnw on
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
Feedback: Power: Boar charge
Please reduce the imobilization time after using this power, having to shift to use another melee power faster is really lame.
The funny thing is some of these changed were made because a power like constricting/steel breeze was used by a majority of trappers. Do an analysis of GWF powers and you will see the same thing @amenar. You are going to find the same thing - hidden daggers, IBS and daring shout or battle fury. Don't punish HR's because we use a power that has great utility.
If you guys really listened to the feedback of your HR community, you would revert the steel breeze change. That's probably to much to ask though, you guys rarely admit to mistakes or revert changes. We don't use the power for damage, we use the power to refill stamina as everyone stated many times already. The stamina regen on the ranger has to be one of the slowest in the game.
As for the PVP side, nothing has been done to help the HR. But again, I don't think they even consider the feedback of the community. Good luck to you guys that keep trying to make the HR viable in pvp again.
The funny thing is some of these changed were made because a power like constricting/steel breeze was used by a majority of trappers. Do an analysis of GWF powers and you will see the same thing @amenar. You are going to find the same thing - hidden daggers, IBS and daring shout or battle fury. Don't punish HR's because we use a power that has great utility.
If you guys really listened to the feedback of your HR community, you would revert the steel breeze change. That's probably to much to ask though, you guys rarely admit to mistakes or revert changes. We don't use the power for damage, we use the power to refill stamina as everyone stated many times already. The stamina regen on the ranger has to be one of the slowest in the game.
As for the PVP side, nothing has been done to help the HR. But again, I don't think they even consider the feedback of the community. Good luck to you guys that keep trying to make the HR viable in pvp again.
as they stand today and in the past i dont use any hr encounter for the damage. they dont have any anyways. I just want to daze and applying thorned roots. we really need some serious damage source.
It's pretty clear that you love the changes to Steel Breeze, so I'll pass along that we need more charge based powers.
>:)
We'll be looking at Steel Breeze again, and removing the charges. Also, looks like the old version of Commanding Shot, while it was supposed to only affect DR, might have been doing more than that. We'll take another look at the power.
I've also got another dozen or so notes of issues to look at, so keep it coming. I'm not about to tell you I'll fix all the problems - that certainly won't happen in the time we have for this module - but the goal we set out to do was to bump up the HR in end game PvE, and to make more than one build viable - so if we're not hitting that, know that we'll keep going.
It's pretty clear that you love the changes to Steel Breeze, so I'll pass along that we need more charge based powers.
>:)
We'll be looking at Steel Breeze again, and removing the charges. Also, looks like the old version of Commanding Shot, while it was supposed to only affect DR, might have been doing more than that. We'll take another look at the power.
I've also got another dozen or so notes of issues to look at, so keep it coming. I'm not about to tell you I'll fix all the problems - that certainly won't happen in the time we have for this module - but the goal we set out to do was to bump up the HR in end game PvE, and to make more than one build viable - so if we're not hitting that, know that we'll keep going.
since you are here, please check if the aok skin buff i really doing something. The amount of healing on tooltip doesnt match the actual healing
I have tried multiple times to get into pvp but it's about pointless as an HR. The gear wasn't the problem and playing versus premade all the time (although annoying) wasn't a problem. The problem is zero burst but you guys know that.
In PVE the damage is there contrary to what the masses say. People just need to evaluate and really think about the sources of damage for trappers. I would put a guide out there but 1. I don't want a bunch of mini me's out there 2. Everyone would cry for a bigger trapper nerf. People are just too lazy to figure it out.
The way ROA works is that when u cast it, u designate a AOE were arrows will land randomly, if they happen to hit something they do damage, if they don't, they won't do anything.
This is not how Rain of Arrow works. It deals damage every 0.5s to every critter (up to 5) in the area of effect. The arrows that fall from the sky are visual FX only, and have no bearing on how the damage is dealt. If you get 2 enemies at the maximum distance and watch, you'll see that an arrow will fall way over by one of them, and the other will take damage.
as they stand today and in the past i dont use any hr encounter for the damage. they dont have any anyways. I just want to daze and applying thorned roots. we really need some serious damage source.
I'm assuming you're speaking about the PvP side of things here? If so, it might be helpful to provide a bit of a disclaimer to it. Not an attack at all, just making sure the feedback gets considered in the right light. I don't PvP myself (anymore), so I couldn't speak about that at all, but it makes sure there's no comments on your comment speaking from a PvE standpoint. It'll just get confusing.
--
As to my own feedback to the changes, there is but one thing. It has been mentioned by others: Steel Breeze becoming a charge-based skill. No one used Steel Breeze for the damage. It is, however, a very important tool in providing survivability and keeping the *flow* of the Trapper Ranger going. Considering stamina regen on a ranger is already slow, and the class is based around moving around, the charge-based version of it will hurt all HR's.
HR dodges have always been a bit tricky. They're very susceptible to lag, the immunity frames are short, the distance covered is not a lot - changed now, I see - and unless your timing is *spot on* - which is influenced by latency - you will require two or sometimes three to clear a red zone. We use our dodges to step back from a group and find the perfect range for a Longstrider's. We're not very tanky, so applying Plant Growth and immediatly dodging out is imperative most of the time. A healthy stamina replenishing is vital to the HR's survivability, and this change very much gets in the way of that. Considering it's the melee side of one of the three skills that apply roots, only one of which is reliable - Hindering Strike sometimes *whiffs*, applying no damage, no root but going on cooldown anyway - and the other doesn't cut it - Binding Arrow. Roots only apply to targets directly behind the target hit. Mobs don't come in rows. They come in packs - the change is painful, and will leave, at least Trappers, struggling with their rotation.
I don't myself much hurt on the damage side, with my Trapper. I feel I do fine. However, breaking the flow of the Trapper, and slowing down his or her rotation will do nothing but hurt the class. Damage wise, because we rely on a quick firing of Encounters that don't do much damage anyway, and survivability wise, as running out of stamina means we either have to break up our rotation, or get slapped silly by baddies.
I seriously hope you will reconsider the charge-based part of Steel Breeze. It's doing no one any good.
Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Protection Paladin
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In PVE the damage is there contrary to what the masses say. People just need to evaluate and really think about the sources of damage for trappers. I would put a guide out there but 1. I don't want a bunch of mini me's out there 2. Everyone would cry for a bigger trapper nerf. People are just too lazy to figure it out.
Well, for us, this isn't an issue of just "listening to the masses." We have a lot of data from people running dungeons, and trials, and skirmishes. We track things like damage done of the course of the dungeon, what gear score the player had when running the dungeon, how long it took them to complete the dungeon, etc. We track highest damage done by a class in each done, average damage done, lowest damage done (oof). And consistently, the Hunter Ranger is the damage dealing class on the bottom of these lists. On live, being a Trapper is easily the way to get the best damage out of the HR, but it still falls behind the best ways to get damage for the other DPS classes.
Which is why we're trying to buff them. They aren't off by orders of magnitude - which is why you aren't seeing massive 50% damage increases all over the place - but they still need some help.
Comments
Contact:@EmeraldG1173
Main: EMERALD LEGEND
I'm not opposed to changing playstyle, I've done so on many toons, such as when charges were introduced to threatening rush on IV GWF - hated that change at the time as well, but over time other skills were obviously found to be better. I don't see that with some of the skills that are being buffed. Split the sky, thorn ward, yeah no thanks. Trapper as it is now is fun to play because it is quick and chaotic, but they are damage lightweights, they do 'reasonable' damage only because they are capable of spamming their attacks quickly. Archery and combat can't compete with trapper, so it's become the best option in a poor situation. No offense to your internal rangers, but if they are pleased with any type of "charge" on a trapper build then I seriously doubt they tested beyond firing off one rotation.
Edit: got onto preview
1.) Marauders Rush, decreased range was unnceccesary, this now makes the skill feel awkward, what was the reason for shortening the distance???
2.) As I expected, steel breeze is a pain with charges, tested as you asked, sorry it is just bad in a longer fight with larger groups of higher level mobs.
3.) Damage buffs are noticeable but just barely, which seems to be what you aimed for based on the description at higher levels, but the result is you have added some annoyances with very little in return, in fact overall your changes feel like a nerf on popular rotations.
4.) Shift does not feel like it has changed much, immunity frames still feel like they are not WAI. will test this more, you still take damage late in the cast of marauder's escape, I've never been able to determine if this has always been poor animation timing or just not WAI, but while you have the hood up maybe you could tweak that, a high level elite should not be able to appear to inflict damage when I am supposedly 30 feet away.
5.) Seismic shot buff seems nice.
6.) Split shot has been nerfed so much over the years that this buff seems hardly noticeable, cant' say I'd slot it except to pull aggro on purpose.
7.) Fix to gushing wound looks to be a winner, hated its stab into thin air.
8.) Increased AoE for rain of arrows is a welcome change that I have wished for since I rolled a HR. It's a task specific skill but when I do slot it, it was finicky to keep on target unless you are very tanky and using it in melee range.
I am (or was) planning to build a HR.
Now i need to know:
1)Binding Arrow still applies Thorned Roots? I saw some people saying it doesn't.
2)Other Encounter powers that apply Roots (or Thorned Roots if you have the feat) like Hindering Shot, Hindering Strike and Constricting Arrow, were they nerfed?
3)Cordon of Arrows got nerfed?
4)Crushing Roots?
My questions are much more for PVE since i want to pull as much critters as possible to a single point and start to Perma-Daze-Thorned-Roots them.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
Bug: Power: Hawk Shot
This power deals zero damage in certain distance, angle or elevation. Animation is there but it does not hit the mob.
Hawkeye - yes please look more into it, as it currently stands in live, this is already easy to proc, make it 5 seconds longer and only on encounters, you are basically giving us a machine gun on a knife fight in a mud filled arena. Also, i dont like crybabies who keeps saying "you are just stealing our dps." meh.
Intent for Trapper - If it was to better up the place of trappers in live, I think you may have had this wrong. Personally(and i think a lot of above average HRs would also agree too) increasing the damage of Steel Breeze, at the cost of smaller AoE and enforcing forced cooldowns(charges at 15sec cd) would limit a trapper rotation to like 3 or 4 rotations and then you stand there waiting for cooldowns to go, while dealing very minimal damage via at will is not very appealing as a "buff" but more as a "nerf." No one who would want to do better at live would choose an enforced cooldown for a little damage buff, as it would mess up the rotation, which is the only reason as to how HRs can do massive damage to be on par with other classes with their burst damage encounters/dailies and at wills.
If this was meant as a nerf, then it is a whole other story and i can accept nerfs if you admit the stupidity of the rumor that HRs are the underdogs and underperforms(at least in PVE).
Commanding Shot - definitely serves as a nerf with the upcoming changes, Not a lot use it because they are not aware on how much a big debuff it serves on live. On live, on raids, this is one of the most useful debuffs in the game. There are no issues with the cooldown, as you can have it in a rotation and freely have everything on cooldown. Casting time reduced and damage buff seems good on paper, but with the loss of the debuff, if this goes live, then with this "unintended nerf," you are taking away a viable encounter that can compensate a loss of personal dps to overall effectivenes of party in raids.
Also, since we are on the being honest page, is Commanding shot not supposed to stack from different users? If not, then cool i may have exploiting a "bug" but if it was supposed to, then kindly fix it. debuff doesnt stack if both rank 4 commanding shot is used, but if someone has it at a different rank,(i.e. rank 1,2,or 3) then the debuff stacks. I shared this because I want this upcoming changes to be really helpful and useful to the community.
Steel Breeze - like what i said earlier, I see increasing its damage at the cost of having charges which enforces cooldown is a nerf, not a buff. I dont think no one uses steel breeze to mainly do damage, they use this to gain stamina back, hit enemies and reduce the cooldown of encounters. Again, this is a nerf, not a buff so kindly reconsider it again if nerf was not intended.
Lastly, having AoE targets cap at 5? is this for all the classes? Are we butchering too fast so we had to be limited to just 5 targets for our AoEs? (general question overall for all the classes and the game as a whole).
Thank you and I am really looking forward to your next reply/update to us here in the forums.
People don't say this much, but your replies are much much appreciated.
Steel Breeze charges is not that awful in PVP, but it can affect PVE, so better idea is just to revert that back. Moreover range of that encounter should remain the same, because it has impact on both PVP and PVE.
Forest Meditation rework is awful. On live you can cancel the skill by dodging from it. That means it can successfuly be used to counter prones and other CC and it's often crucial to cancel the power immediately after you avoided the prone/CC.
To cancel the skill on Preview you need 1st to press the same button, and 2nd to dodge after cancelling it. That means that generally you have a chance to get proned right between cancelling the skill and dodging. And I guess it's not nessesary to say that Forest Meditation is only useful in PVP.
Dodge range changes seems bugged or not noticeable at all.
Hunter Ranger Stormwarden Class Feat:
Blade Storm:
"When dealing melee damage, you have 25% chance to deal an additional 5% of your attack's damage in an area around you. +5% / point spent in this skill."
The melee attack is increased by all the buffs/debuffs, then Blade Storm takes 20% of that high value and it's getting increased by all the buffs/debuffs again. Then 30 mil hits happen:
1. Steel breaz with charges... is so bad now. Damage up - is nice, but not charges. Please return state without charge.
2. Feat: Forestbond please up to 7.5 or 10% cd. Now in pvp in 1v1 HR suffer CD problem. (because of steel breaz too)
3. Roots vs elvenBattle ench - do not have DoT damage. This need to be fixed.
4. ElvBat ench is overpowered with control resist. BiS players have a lot of CR and EB ench - give them too much CR.
5. Forest Meditation rework is awful. HR must have opportunity to dodge from meditation.
6. Plant Growth: Now properly has a target cap of 5. -> this is damage nerf. You told no nerfs? lol...
7. All buff skills need to be reworked. To make them more usefull -> make cast speed faster. No one will use buff skills just because you lost so many time when you can deal damage.
8. Feat: Thorned Roots: When used in conjunction with the Class Feature Crushing Roots, Thorned Roots would apply the Daze twice. In most cases, this would manifest as just causing the Daze to last about 0.1s longer. This has been fixed. Return this 0.1s!
9. It seems that New Shift do not work like expected.
10. Commanding Shot like other powers that "lower resist" NOW on live works like debuff! Why you think that this power decreaces DR?
11. Damage per rank of Thorned Roots, for a maximum total of 425% Weapon Damage at Rank 5. This has been changed to now do 1 tick of damage for 200% + 50% per rank, for a maximum of 450% at Rank 5.
450/425 = 5% buff of damage is a joke?
12. Battlehoned - need rework! More than a year! Cruel recovery too.
13. Pathfinder actions still do not work like intended.
There is so "COOL DAMAGE" and "permadaze" in pvp vs not good geared players: enjoy it
Now players have 130-200k HP... and heal 50% in few seconds... HR deal 1-5k damage vs good geared players.
"balance".
Trapper -> need's burst\piercing damage for PvP.
Combat -> more damage for pve\pvp and posibility to live vs monsters in EPIC dungeons.
Archery -> i don't know what to do with archery in pvp. but in pve just rework some feats to do more damage.
And where are rework of feats? Melee? Archer?
Why not ask some one who plays neverwinter
I play HR since m3. Have a lot of experience, and now i see just absurd changes.
With good GWF i go to CN and we have 100\80kk of damage ( i played with blade of storm, look up), this new "balance" can't help me to do more, maybe less...
If we will talk about pvp...i can see any changes except trapper nerf. If you want to do good -> do it, but t not vice versa.
I am sorry for my complains, but it is a very important and serious theme for me and many other players.
upd
1st -> gwf 2nd -> hr
384vs213k DPS (other dungeon run)
and this with storm blades ->
Rain of Arrows: Increased radius to 10 feet, up from 6 feet.
This change shows me that who designed these changes clearly doesn't know he HR class and not much of the game itself.
It also shows me that the internal HR used for testing are only people how rolled a HR for the purpose of testing these changes.
While a radius increase might look good on paper, on practice, in this particular power, its a nerf, and a pretty big one.
The way ROA works is that when u cast it, u designate a AOE were arrows will land randomly, if they happen to hit something they do damage, if they don't, they won't do anything.
ROA is not for trash mobs clearing and increasing its AOE won't change this because of the previously described mechanics of it. This power is used to nuke "fat" mobs that are pinned down by a tank or to nuke bosses.
While this change doesn't influence much when used on big bosses like Lostmauth or the beholder on CN, the AOE increase will reduce it's effectiveness by a lot when used on slim bosses like the second one on CN because most of the arrows will miss the target.
Don't believe me?
Try going on live and use ROA on a test dummy (those immobile slim thingies) and see how many of the arrows will hit it.
Then try it on preview with the increased AOE and see how many arrows will hit the dummy...
My point is that simply changing numbers on powers, like AOE, base damage, cooldowns for something that looks good, isn't a
solution to buff stuff up and/or make it viable. To make powers viable one needs to understand the power mechanics and how they operate so that relevant changes can be made in order to reduce that given power shortcomings.
As an example (for what is worth it) I will give a suggestion on how to increase the effectiveness of ROA that it's not just a simple change in the powers numbers (AOE radius, cooldown, ...).
Make ROA work similarly to Icy Terrain. When casted u designate the AOE and after this, any monster inside the AOE will take damage, independently of it being hit by a arrow or not. When a arrow falls, any mob inside the area takes damage.
This would probably need some adjustments on base damage per arrow, and/or the max targets cap (not that icy terrain as one)
and/or the duration of the power, and/or the rate of fire of the arrows, but would make this power very effective and woudn't depend on your luck of were the arrows land.
Leaving ROA alone for now.
Shift: Increased the distance of each shift ~30%.
Great change, I really appreciate it.
Steel Breeze: This power now has 3 charges. Recharge time between using charges is 3 seconds,
and a new charge is gained every 15 seconds.
This is bad, really bad despite what your internal HR might say. Trappers really really really need this for their rotation to work
properly. These stacks will mess the rotation up and will force them to use at-will in between to get those serpent stacks, and at-wills even with the announced damage changes, are meaningless they would need a 1000% damage boost to do anything (I just said 1000 because it sounded a cool number and changing numbers to something greater seems to be the HR class adjustments motto)
Finally, I just hope that my post gets read by someone and that it might influence something. I was really reluctant on making a post this big and taking the time to write it because probably wont' change anything, but as a main HR player I had to do this post to clear my consciousness and so that I can say "at least I tried."
1. Aimed Shot: Thanks for trying to make this At-Will Power better, but I tell you where you failed on your goal, you did a Charge time reduction by 0.25s, it's still too slow and this is nowhere enough for us to wanna slot and be able to use it, At-Wills power as the name is self explanatory need to be the quickest powers we have to use, this means to make this power usable the casting cost need be halved from what is it now.
2. Ambush: This was reworked to make it become a little better and somewhat interesting, but again you failed on your goal, due (and let's say the truth for once) the melee counter part Bear Trap is one of the worst encounters we got since the start and still is after the rework, and nobody will slot and waste an encounter power that is usable only from one stance; Bear Trap is simple useless, remove that power at the whole and add something better at it's place instead, so that we can start use this encounter power inside our rotation in some builds and finally we will start talk about diversification as it's one of yours and ours goal as well.
3. Binding Arrow: The power is now broken and despite the animation still same, the root is not applied correctly.
4. Marauder's Rush: Why lower the range of a skill that was working as intended and was not OP, stop nerf what is good and worked as intended for 9 modules, revert this please.
5. Steel Breeze: The 3 charges with a 15sec cool down have ruined this skill, as everyone here said already, we HR's more than any other class relays on mobility and if you harm us one of the best encounter's to build the stamina I call this a nerf, so revert this please.
6. Forest Meditation: The rework again made things worser, remember this is our survival skill we use solely in PVP, which was supposely to make us recover hp while not getting harmed in meanwhile, which is untrue as certain classes (GF and TR on top) can kill us literally while under the usage of this power, so this skill should be changed in better and not in something even worser again, my suggestion is that Forest Meditation should be an impenetrable circle which nobody within 3-4" can enter, so that the recovery effect can be used until it's expiration time.
So far I am unhappy with the work done, and the ~10% dmg increase is nowhere enough to compensate the above disaster, you need listen more to HR community and talk directly with some of our best HR's in game cause we have given many feedbacks and suggestions over the past 2-3 years but nothing was done in the direction that our players are asking, we rather lost several HR's already that switched over a different class or quitted the game at the whole, so this is prolly for you the last chance to do something in the right direction if you don't want loose the remaining devoted HR left.
PS: blue is not enough readable in a black background, hence I adopted cyan
Feedback - Aimed Shot
I was keen to check it out again with the new changes, unfortunately i have to echo what the others are saying, it's just too slow for the return. On average rapidshot is matching or beating it with the added advantage of maneuverability. to make this an archers go to at-will at it's current speed it needs to do 2 - 3 times the current base damage or Half the current cast time leaving the damage the same. perhaps adding either bonus to the Predator feat
Feedback - Shift
I didn't noticed any difference, I had shifted out of AOE's but still got hit. again as others have mentioned immunity frames and lag may be the issue
Will have a play with other powers later but these were the key ones i wanted to test right away.
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
They need to review PVP , the stats and how these interactions work. It wouldve better to just put a cap on crit severity to like 50% while flagged to pvp.. then to do what they have done.
1st HR is about mobility we need encounters that allow us to shoot then move we can not survive standing in 1 place in PVE or PVP. Over all for PVE we need shorter animations for our encounters this would be a great way to boost archery it hard to use big encounters due to you are closed on so fast by the time animation is over your in trouble
bugs and issues are
Rain of arrows does a lot less damage now against small single target is working correctly now
Binding Arrow: The power is now broken and despite the animation still same, the root is not applied correctly. roots are inconsistent some times animation but roots are not there
Steel breeze now causes gap in rotations. when moving and shooting running in to issues with cool downs now. in PVE soloing dragon patrols I now die due to go to use encounters and they are still in cool down and I am ponced on and killed do to 1/2 second hesitation. In pvp 1 vs 1 im using weak atwills do to loss of fast cool downs from steel breeze. You need to leave Steel breeze with damage boost and 1 hit as before or make it so gain is same as before on each hit. Every HR uses constrict/steel breeze combo its an intricate part of our class. Per dev is returning to way was thanks for listening to us
Forest Meditation: not working as described this daily was supposedly to make us recover hp while not getting harmed , this does not work GF and TRs kill us while under the usage of this power, please fix and now cant cancel FM except 1 out of 3 tries
New dodge needs adjusting does not seem to be working as described
new damage buffs over all show a bout a 3% increase at my level the penalties that are suffered far out weight the increase
For PVP for me to fight a 1 vs 1 against an equal class I stand no chance may as well be using a feather. When you can out play some one for 2 minutes and can t kill them it so irritating because of taking so long a TR arrives and does a 140k Se from invis . This is due to no burst damage please add a daily that gives burst damage or a 300% damage buff for so many seconds like other classes have.
Please reduce the imobilization time after using this power, having to shift to use another melee power faster is really lame.
If you guys really listened to the feedback of your HR community, you would revert the steel breeze change. That's probably to much to ask though, you guys rarely admit to mistakes or revert changes. We don't use the power for damage, we use the power to refill stamina as everyone stated many times already. The stamina regen on the ranger has to be one of the slowest in the game.
As for the PVP side, nothing has been done to help the HR. But again, I don't think they even consider the feedback of the community. Good luck to you guys that keep trying to make the HR viable in pvp again.
Character: Vendetta
they dont have any anyways. I just want to daze and applying thorned roots.
we really need some serious damage source.
It's pretty clear that you love the changes to Steel Breeze, so I'll pass along that we need more charge based powers.
>:)
We'll be looking at Steel Breeze again, and removing the charges. Also, looks like the old version of Commanding Shot, while it was supposed to only affect DR, might have been doing more than that. We'll take another look at the power.
I've also got another dozen or so notes of issues to look at, so keep it coming. I'm not about to tell you I'll fix all the problems - that certainly won't happen in the time we have for this module - but the goal we set out to do was to bump up the HR in end game PvE, and to make more than one build viable - so if we're not hitting that, know that we'll keep going.
In PVE the damage is there contrary to what the masses say. People just need to evaluate and really think about the sources of damage for trappers. I would put a guide out there but 1. I don't want a bunch of mini me's out there 2. Everyone would cry for a bigger trapper nerf. People are just too lazy to figure it out.
Character: Vendetta
--
As to my own feedback to the changes, there is but one thing. It has been mentioned by others: Steel Breeze becoming a charge-based skill. No one used Steel Breeze for the damage. It is, however, a very important tool in providing survivability and keeping the *flow* of the Trapper Ranger going. Considering stamina regen on a ranger is already slow, and the class is based around moving around, the charge-based version of it will hurt all HR's.
HR dodges have always been a bit tricky. They're very susceptible to lag, the immunity frames are short, the distance covered is not a lot - changed now, I see - and unless your timing is *spot on* - which is influenced by latency - you will require two or sometimes three to clear a red zone. We use our dodges to step back from a group and find the perfect range for a Longstrider's. We're not very tanky, so applying Plant Growth and immediatly dodging out is imperative most of the time. A healthy stamina replenishing is vital to the HR's survivability, and this change very much gets in the way of that. Considering it's the melee side of one of the three skills that apply roots, only one of which is reliable - Hindering Strike sometimes *whiffs*, applying no damage, no root but going on cooldown anyway - and the other doesn't cut it - Binding Arrow. Roots only apply to targets directly behind the target hit. Mobs don't come in rows. They come in packs - the change is painful, and will leave, at least Trappers, struggling with their rotation.
I don't myself much hurt on the damage side, with my Trapper. I feel I do fine. However, breaking the flow of the Trapper, and slowing down his or her rotation will do nothing but hurt the class. Damage wise, because we rely on a quick firing of Encounters that don't do much damage anyway, and survivability wise, as running out of stamina means we either have to break up our rotation, or get slapped silly by baddies.
I seriously hope you will reconsider the charge-based part of Steel Breeze. It's doing no one any good.
Which is why we're trying to buff them. They aren't off by orders of magnitude - which is why you aren't seeing massive 50% damage increases all over the place - but they still need some help.