Poll to Remove Drains and Ambush ring (+ feedback)

metalldjt · July 2016

So of today 12 July 2016, the Preview Shard has been updated and alongside we've few changes coming, but this thread targets only 3 items that have been ruining the PvP since they were implemented, this is problably the LAST STAND that we will have against them.

There's so much negative feedback over them since module 7 , respectively module 8 , and DEVS seem they haven't taken any GOOD DECISION in tryin to improve the PvP since then , leaving it as unhealthy as ever.

These 3 items : Stamina Drain , Action Point Drain and Ambush ring are ruining the fun into limiting other players class mechanics and having different interraction with whatever class is using them creating a gamebreakin enviroment, there are alot of players that keep complaining about them, and with the Preview update there have been made some changes towards drains, but it's not enough, we already know that some classes have few dailies /encounters and atwills that interract differently with them, makin these items really overpowered.
Everyone who votes please leave a feedback why have you voted like that, pliz !

@terramak @strumslinger @commanderander @asterdahl @badbotlimit

gankdalf · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

Been asking them to remove these items from PvP from day 1.

Devs has no idea how they affect the PvP experience or they dont care. Its sad.

stephen9393 · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

no item in the game should ever limit players' characters abilities in such a way that goes over and beyond the limits of tenacity and each class's powers, gears, artifacts, etc. these overload enchants and overpowered rings are wrecking the fun of the game for new players and veteran players, there is no challenge to the game when all you need is a ring to stay invisible to not be targeted, and if you're an HR trapper or a TR with smoke bomb and other such disabling powers(just examples), and on top of that you have a drain that takes all your enemy's action points or stamina? c'mon ppl that's pathetic and boring. bring back the good ol' days of fun challenging pvp.

gankdalf · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

Only reason more players dont complain about this is because large guilds actually have a rule to not allow it in PvP..

beckylunatic · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

Removing them from the game would mean admitting that putting them in was a mistake in the first place, and that's not just a major piece of humble pie to eat, it means that developing them - including the siege structures to support them - was a waste of precious resources. None of this makes TPTB happy. I think a hard nerf might be the best anyone can expect.

I actually heard a podcast interview with @badbotlimit in which he expressly stated that none of the Underdark rings were game-breaking. Major disconnect. About the 26 minute mark:

http://media.wizards.com/2016/podcasts/dnd/DnDPodcast_03_03_2016.mp3

scathias · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

beckylunatic said:
Removing them from the game would mean admitting that putting them in was a mistake in the first place, and that's not just a major piece of humble pie to eat, it means that developing them - including the siege structures to support them - was a waste of precious resources. None of this makes TPTB happy. I think a hard nerf might be the best anyone can expect.

I actually heard a podcast interview with @badbotlimit in which he expressly stated that none of the Underdark rings were game-breaking. Major disconnect. About the 26 minute mark:

http://media.wizards.com/2016/podcasts/dnd/DnDPodcast_03_03_2016.mp3

well, they pulled dungeons and gear that people liked in mod 6 and didn't seem to mind then lol. but yeah, a nerf is all we are likely to see even though drains and such are so broken. It just makes it worse to hear that a dev thinks that it isn't game breaking to run through a dungeon with ambush and not fight anything but mobs, or to just be a permanently invisible character in pvp

Unknown · July 2016

This content has been removed.

vteasy · July 2016

Please add stealth reveal rings to this discussion and I am on board.

Unknown · July 2016

This content has been removed.

szejhuludpuchacz · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

ejziponken said:
Only reason more players dont complain about this is because large guilds actually have a rule to not allow it in PvP..

But some beta and gamma guilds use them. I saw one guy in alliance chat who was very proud about r2 drains he bought from helm's market... Drains are huge advantage vs people without r2 wards, every time I face drainer its like new game for me. Game without sprint or dailies.

zarark6 · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

If you remove ambush rings, vision rings should also be removed.

panderus · July 2016

This poll could be better if the responses were not so polarized. Feedback noted and passed on though.

scathias · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

panderus said:
This poll could be better if the responses were not so polarized. Feedback noted and passed on though.

Did you see right through our attempt to get everyone on board to have these removed? aw shucks

But thank you for passing along the feedback

theguiido · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

panderus said:
This poll could be better if the responses were not so polarized. Feedback noted and passed on though.

Were literally asking to get these no skill items out of the game. Your game that is about to be destroyed with the GF and SW changes.

gankdalf · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

panderus said:
This poll could be better if the responses were not so polarized. Feedback noted and passed on though.

@panderus

I actually made a poll a while back. Results and thread below.

Remove drains and Ambush/Cowardice rings? 147 votes

Yes remove both the drains and Ambush/Cowardice rings
81% 120 votes

No, don't remove the drains and Ambush/Cowardice rings
10% 15 votes

I don't care / I don't know
8% 12 votes

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1211286/remove-drains-and-ambush-cowardice-rings/p1

---------------------------

Drains add depth to the PVP experience.
13% 10 votes

Drains help lower geared players defeat higher geared players.
0%

Drains help lower skilled players defeat higher skilled players.
4% 3 votes

It gives guilds something to work towards.
1% 1 vote

It makes PVP worse by taking away from game mechanics.
40% 29 votes

Drains are a pathetic way for people with low skill and high gear score to stomp pug teams and feel better about themselves.
40% 29 votes

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1211590/are-pvp-drains-a-good-addition-to-the-game/p1

-----------------

Edit found a third thread more about ambush rings:

What should we do with Cowardice and Ambush rings? 126 votes

Nothing, they are awesome I always wanted to be a perma stealth, perma root class without playing a TR and/or HR!
15% 20 votes

Burn them with fire! Delete them!
69% 88 votes

Stronghold siege is already buggy with pets, why not leave them useful in that mess and take them out of Domi and GG?
14% 18 votes

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1209613/what-should-we-do-with-cowardice-and-ambush-rings/p1

marushiatron · July 2016

No, I like the negative impact they offer in PvP.

Here is an idea. Instead of complaining about drains, just buy wards. There is your answer. End of story. They're in the game for a reason. You literally have nothing else to spend your guild marks on other than food and wards. QQ cry me a river. Yes, I've used drains. No, I don't use them currently because I decided wards were better suited for what I needed, but there are ways around them.

Lets put up a poll to get T. Fey removed as well since that hasn't been patched yet. Oh wait you're probably still using that. Oh and mount bonus' making people unkillable, lets put up a poll to get those removed as well since it's just as stupid as when companions were working in regular domination, but drains are the real problem.

As for the ambush ring, why it was even put in the game after all the crying and moaning over permastealth TR's I have no idea, but hey guess what, go farm a vision ring like they did to get that ambush ring. Oh wait, you don't want to have to play the game to play the game....hrm.....

Get over yourself and just play the game.

kalina311 · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

+1

scathias said:

panderus said:
This poll could be better if the responses were not so polarized. Feedback noted and passed on though.
Did you see right through our attempt to get everyone on board to have these removed? aw shucks But thank you for passing along the feedback

gankdalf · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

szejhuludpuchacz said:

ejziponken said:
Only reason more players dont complain about this is because large guilds actually have a rule to not allow it in PvP..
But some beta and gamma guilds use them. I saw one guy in alliance chat who was very proud about r2 drains he bought from helm's market... Drains are huge advantage vs people without r2 wards, every time I face drainer its like new game for me. Game without sprint or dailies.

Guild rule, not alliance rule. Cant force guilds to rule against them.

Unknown · July 2016

This content has been removed.

icyphish · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

Drains and Ambush ring is a bad addition to the game and almost everyone agrees, how bad does this effect the game?

Drains:
With Drains around, almost all PvP players are forced to use Wards, this kills all other creative enchantments that was introduced by the Devs, be it Greater Purified/Corrupted Black Ice enchantments, White/Black/Green/Red Dragon enchantments or all other SH class-specific enchantments, no PvP player will ever use those. (Because drains makes your enemy a dummy target for easy kill) and this also makes Wards being the only choice for most of the PvP players.

Ambush Ring
If Ambush ring grants 5 second stealth every minute then I guess its fine, but with the ring being able to PERM STEALTH with No Cool Down, this makes PvP games a vastly hide and seek. Many of the classes' skills requires a target to fire, with the target being in stealth permanently, that makes a lot of ranged skills pretty useless because 1. You can't tell where the target is, 2. You might know where the target is but you cannot attack cus there is no target to fire your skills. This makes it very disadvantaged for half of the classes. Personally for my double sprint GWF, I can engage into a fight and whack as much as I want, if things doesn't look good, I could always sprint out with Ambush Ring, and almost nothing can ever stop me from running away. I dont think people like to get beaten one-sided and have no chance of ever bringing down your target.

Personally I have used Ambush Ring when it first released and scored about 450 kills with 0 death, once I took the ring out, my kill ratio gets lowered to about 1:20, its not that hard to tell how overpowered this ring is and how unfair it is to many of the classes.

I vote to REMOVE both Drains and Ambush ring!

lwedar · July 2016

panderus said:
This poll could be better if the responses were not so polarized. Feedback noted and passed on though.

@panderus You need to remove vision rings as well. We gave this feedback since they came out. Balance the classes not with rings

sorce · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

beckylunatic said:
I actually heard a podcast interview with @badbotlimit in which he expressly stated that none of the Underdark rings were game-breaking. Major disconnect. About the 26 minute mark:

http://media.wizards.com/2016/podcasts/dnd/DnDPodcast_03_03_2016.mp3

Wow. I just went and listened to that pod-cast. Not game breaking? Was I suddenly transported to a different dimension?

ltgamesttv · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

The reason these polls about Ambush rings and drains have been so "polarized" are because people who PVP have a negative view of them from experience. Look at like every poll ever made about them, there are like 1 or 2 people who say they like them (often those who like to troll PVP for easy kills) and then the VAST majority who say they hate them. This isn't actually just a group trying to use propaganda it's the majority vote.

rhodah · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

Yes ! remove them asap. they are ruining PVP -- for ALL players.

icyclass · July 2016

metalldjt said:
I am willing to prove if it's needed that ambush ring is gamebreaking in PvP as in PvE was already proven by @thefabricant in one of his videos, making the content trivial, because of the ambush ring letting players to skip certain fights on the map. The same goes for PvP, you cannot attack what you cannot see, could you manage to fight against 5 players that uses the ambush ring?

I like that the ambush ring lets me roam around the open world maps without fighting all the mobs on the way to where I'm going. (Though a fast mount nearly does this anyway.)
I kind of like running through lairs with it, but I agree it can be a bit cheesy.
Everything about ambush ring in PvP is toxic.

So minimally I'd like it if Ambush was changed to not work on players. If it were removed entirely I would be ok with that too.

szejhuludpuchacz · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

ejziponken said:

Guild rule, not alliance rule. Cant force guilds to rule against them.

Yes, but now more people have access to rank 2 drins AND some of them are flagged as mentioned big guilds (they use alliance title). Thats making some bad name for big guilds...

gankdalf · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

szejhuludpuchacz said:

ejziponken said:

Guild rule, not alliance rule. Cant force guilds to rule against them.
Yes, but now more people have access to rank 2 drins AND some of them are flagged as mentioned big guilds (they use alliance title). Thats making some bad name for big guilds...

Cant really block the vendor.

guarrrrrrrd · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

Drain runes seems will be nerfed, good solution, but not sure, that this is enough to make them balanced

panderus said:
This poll could be better if the responses were not so polarized. Feedback noted and passed on though.

@panderus, did you fight on the siege while almost all opponents with ambush ring?
When any can just run around depot in absolute stealth, making them immune.
And, if this is a TR, he running until he gained full AP, hit somebody with Shocking Execution under First Strike, and keep running. "Special" strategy, not requiring game skill. Please, at least, add cooldown to this ring.

ilmenira · July 2016

i very much dislike the way these questions are being asked... it forces the answer in one direction.

kalina311 · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

confusedpoof said:

beckylunatic said:
I actually heard a podcast interview with @badbotlimit in which he expressly stated that none of the Underdark rings were game-breaking. Major disconnect. About the 26 minute mark:

http://media.wizards.com/2016/podcasts/dnd/DnDPodcast_03_03_2016.mp3
Wow. I just went and listened to that pod-cast. Not game breaking? Was I suddenly transported to a different dimension?

lol if none were game breaking why did they remove the ring of natural order lol
@badbotlimit was directly responsible for creating those rings and directly responsible for removing the ring of natural order therefore admitting that is was game breaking and a coding nightmare

beckylunatic · July 2016

Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.

I think the point was believing nothing they released broke the game (players disagree). Natural Order was never released.

Badbotlimit is a producer, not a designer, therefore can't be credited(blamed) for creating anything, but oversees builds on a higher level.

Poll to Remove Drains and Ambush ring (+ feedback)

Poll to Remove Drains and Ambush ring (+ feedback) 104 votes

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