Yes that is right. If you are terrified of the big bad drains then you can buy a ward. But if you are able to play around it by not being dependent on AP or stamina. The issue is that people are lazy and do t want to evolve.
Or because some of these guilds who now "ban" drain usage. Used them with DC and pally groups to make SHS a joke.
Just let people play how they want to play. Instead of trying to lord over everyone by limiting them. Like I said if you are scared of drains slit a ward. If you are scared of ambush then slot a ring of vision. Heck their is a good case for using the rosegold rings for the tenacity bump. Just depends on plays style and groups.
I am not scared of anything forcing people to only to slots wards wastes all the time the developers spent on creating all the other overloads
wrong Ring of vision does NOT counter ring of stealth because it does not have 100% up time are you joking ?
I always have wards slotted I have no choice has nothing with be being lazy sir
different classes have differnt reliance on ap and stamina dont tell me stuff about being able to play around it lol
if they counter each other out why have any of them then ? this encourages no diversity in overloads at all
to the bold.... Using drains forces other players to adjust to you instead of you adjusting to them. If you are a ward slotter then you have decided to play that way. Which is a credit to you. If i am playing against someone i want to limit their choices and make them uncomfortable. Allowing them to use any overload doesnt do that at all. At least drains puts the pressure on them to think about it hard before slotting more deflect/power/defense/etc
You dont win by ensuring the other player is comfortable. you win by forcing them to adjust to you. And you have done that by making wards your base setup.
a had a 42 to one kills to death ratio when drains first came out without using them lol I assure you sir the other players were not conformable lol
In the hand of a high gear Elite experienced player they are toxic and only serve to put pressure to stay in camp or call GG
I dont see any relation between drains and not wanting to upgrade deflect defence power lol if you do or dont have wards anyways lol anyways wards overload slots do not replace Enchantment slots lol
nice of you to respond on my point abuot lack of ward /drain diversity and wasting dev resources and nice of you to respond about drains effecting differnt classes different you show a strong grasp of the subject sir also no responce on how ambush and vision are not equal
So you are just wanting to limit everyone else from affecting your 42-1 ratio? Basically you are just saying You can play without them because its better for You. No wonder you are with the group who wants to tell the rest of us how we can play our characters. Glad you have shown your true colours
The mount healing bonuses are more of an issue than drains or rings.
like i said before i dont bother crying about them and I certainly wouldnt tell any other player they couldnt use them either.
unfortunately not everyone feels the same about letting people play their game how they wish to play. the problem is that its a small vocal minority who cry constantly or start biased threads like this one.
Lets start a new poll.
1. Let players have the freedom to play the game as they wish
or
2. Let a small vocal minority limit everyone's freedom to choose the way they play.
0
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited July 2016
Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.
The point is i can achieve a 42 to 1 (better then any one even using them ) without the crutch of drains and without further toxifying pvp nothing to do with better for me ....
if it was better for me i am saying it could be 100 to 1 ratio if i chose to use drains hows does my ratio limit anyone else your logic is flawed according to all the polls you are the small vocal minority lol so this shows removed or not I will still score amongst the top 1% and has nothing to do with ego to inflate my score advocating their removal this has to do with balance for the other pug minority who have no voice here . with no access to wards getting stomped
this is not a poll about mounts and healing bonuses and other broken things dont muddle the waters there are other forums posts on that subject
Lets start a new poll.
1. Let players have the freedom to post/vote in the forums as they wish
or
2. Let a small vocal minority cloud everyone's judjment to follow the way the minority votes in multiple polls
if you feel so strongly about it get you "minority" to start voting in some polls then good day sir
Post edited by kalina311 on
0
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
Yes, Please Remove them ASAP.
I had 450 kills 0 death when I was using Ambush ring... tell me its not broken...
I had 450 kills 0 death when I was using Ambush ring... tell me its not broken...
That's a class balance issue.
Rings and Drains are the backbone to achieve any sort of competitiveness for ranged characters in this absurd melee fest of one hit wonders. Beck is 100% correct on this matter. With any advantage from wards/drains there is a counter same with rings.
0
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
I had 450 kills 0 death when I was using Ambush ring... tell me its not broken...
That's a class balance issue.
Rings and Drains are the backbone to achieve any sort of competitiveness for ranged characters in this absurd melee fest of one hit wonders. Beck is 100% correct on this matter. With any advantage from wards/drains there is a counter same with rings.
if he is so correct how come you did not vote or read the rest of the thread apparently
so you agree with him that it is correct for ranged but are implying not for melee because of the "melee fest" ? thereby inferring they are overpowered ?
having to use only 2 wards offers no diversity when the devs created tons for pvp the issue is not if they are a counter to each other and that was not beck54 main points either
the ring of vision does not counter the ring of invisibility already discussed and explained in this thread bro
Yes remove them, or greatly increase the range the enemy players can see you when in stealth.
0
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
No, I like the negative impact they offer in PvP.
The values now seem to be very aceptable tbh, now they actually are situational and not dominating over other players without even giving the chance to react, the values where downed 5 times and can still be mitigated by wards, simply chose what would not want to loose and slot a ward, just like "other player brings a red dragon glyph if i have a blue dragon glyph i'll be further protected from it". The only thing i would change is the imaginary cooldown it has, a 0,5seconds cooldown would be nice because of TR's 37837868376 hit's per second, appart from that, all good.
You keep on about lack of diversity that the drains, wards, rings offer. You do realize that by lessening everyone's options you are taking away from diversity.
Or is diversity only a good thing if it's your version of diversity?
I don't doubt that you have honest intentions to improve the game but taking away legitimate options for players isn't helping anyone but maybe yourself or those who also want to limit everyone else.
You keep on about lack of diversity that the drains, wards, rings offer. You do realize that by lessening everyone's options you are taking away from diversity.
Or is diversity only a good thing if it's your version of diversity?
I don't doubt that you have honest intentions to improve the game but taking away legitimate options for players isn't helping anyone but maybe yourself or those who also want to limit everyone else.
You are in fact lessening everyones options by forcing them to slot wards.. your argument read like that of someone supporting removal of drains and rings well said sir ...especially the part about "YOUR" version of diversity : d
You said "it's not diversity when those stuff are hated" .... Hated by whom? You? Where do you get off trying to tell the rest of us how we can or can't play our toons? What you are suggesting is the exact opposite of diversity. What you want is to tell everyone what is good for them and what is not because it's in your best interests.
By taking them away I have less options to use when playing my toons. You act like wards are automatically used if someone uses drains. I would like to think we have creative enough players to come up with a way to force someone to not use drains.
Glad you liked the your version of diversity comment. I couldn't very well say my version....
It's the player freedom side vs the limit players side...
It's not too late you can join us over here on the player freedom side. We have a spot for ya. ;P
0
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
Not admiring people in guilds or premade a who use a legitimate part of the game?
That's ridiculous and condescending.... So just because you want to lord over players and force your way or the highway playstyle then please limit that to the sheep that you get to join those guilds.
As for the rest of us we enjoy the freedom to play how we wish to play as long as it's within the rules.
Now if you want to talk exploits ... Then yes I'm with you. But bashing a completely legitimate and permissible way to play the game is just over the top.
You even make the comment yourself that you support some players to use these item.... You acknowledge that there is a place in game for these items.
But oh wait it's only for the lowbies that you can slaughter regardless.
Personally I am glad to be In a guild that doesn't limit players.
If players enjoy being slaves to someone else's whimes then they can join the guilds that limit players.
It's not conclusive at all. You guys have your own echo chamber. Everyone who has posted pro drains/rings have backed it up and taken down every anti drain/ring argument.
It's not conclusive at all. You guys have your own echo chamber. Everyone who has posted pro drains/rings have backed it up and taken down every anti drain/ring argument.
I can wear an Ambush Ring+5 and a Ring of Vanishing Presence+5 and literally make the Trickster Rougue Deception Mechanic obsolete. That is beyond broken and I do not care what anyone says otherwise. It is a chump and cheap way to kill someone and is used by so many players just like you. I don't want them nerfed, I don't want them toned down, what I want is them completely out of this game. They serve no purpose, and no one but the TR deserves stealth because that is in their class mechanic. If you want to play and have stealth play a TR.
You use "diversity" as an excuse to justify why you want them in the game which is such a bad way to express why they should stay in the game, considering their is much more rings you can use than those 2 rings, and thats a fact.
It's not conclusive at all. You guys have your own echo chamber.
Echo chamber? The people trying to argue with you might be the same 5 names, but the people voting for the removal (public vote, you can see them) are far more. Even besides the vote / forum... If you ask PvP players in game about this stuff, most will tell you, just like this vote shows, that they are against them (ask people of other (PvP) guilds, not just your own who obviously like them / don't care). Deal with it. So drop your amusing act of calling the people who are for the removal as "vocal minority" or calling the forum vote an "echo chamber".
Everyone who has posted pro drains/rings have backed it up and taken down every anti drain/ring argument.
They have? Selective perception on your end, I guess. There are no 1-to-1 counters to ambush / drains (exception: AP ward rank 2). Period. But even if there were - and since your favorite buzzword seems to be #diversity - being unable to dodge or sprint out of attacks because of 0 stamina thanks to drains, limits (= opposite of #diversity) your game. So yes, we pro-removal people are for #diversity - by not having to slot wards / 33% counter rings.
Ring of Natural Order for a time was available on the preview server, so in game, and following your logic, legit to use, because it was there. The devs thankfully never released it, because they realized how broken it was. But I guess you would like to have this ring in game as well. And those who'd argue against it, you'd tell them to "just not use any kind of (self) buffs, which get taken away by this ring". #diversity
It's not conclusive at all. You guys have your own echo chamber.
Echo chamber? The people trying to argue with you might be the same 5 names, but the people voting for the removal (public vote, you can see them) are far more. Even besides the vote / forum... If you ask PvP players in game about this stuff, most will tell you, just like this vote shows, that they are against them (ask people of other (PvP) guilds, not just your own who obviously like them / don't care). Deal with it. So drop your amusing act of calling the people who are for the removal as "vocal minority" or calling the forum vote an "echo chamber".
Everyone who has posted pro drains/rings have backed it up and taken down every anti drain/ring argument.
They have? Selective perception on your end, I guess. There are no 1-to-1 counters to ambush / drains (exception: AP ward rank 2). Period. But even if there were - and since your favorite buzzword seems to be #diversity - being unable to dodge or sprint out of attacks because of 0 stamina thanks to drains, limits (= opposite of #diversity) your game. So yes, we pro-removal people are for #diversity - by not having to slot wards / 33% counter rings.
Ring of Natural Order for a time was available on the preview server, so in game, and following your logic, legit to use, because it was there. The devs thankfully never released it, because they realized how broken it was. But I guess you would like to have this ring in game as well. And those who'd argue against it, you'd tell them to "just not use any kind of (self) buffs, which get taken away by this ring". #diversity
How dare I use logic...... Its a lot better than the emotional argument this anti player group is making.
The reality is that there is a small echo chamber who want to take away options for players, <They dont trust them to be able to use in game items as how choose. They prefer to limit those options because its not in their best interests or the best interests of the handful of guilds who are trying to exert themselves on the rest of us who enjoy the ability to play out toons how we wish.
These are the same people who only want toons played in the cookie cutter method that THEY choose....that ensures they keep themselves and their guilds relevant.
It was posted above that one of them even thinks rings and drains are great for 2k-3k only.... So they dont mind having the rings and drains in the game ..... they just only want the people who have no chance with or without using them against this block of players from guilds who have a desire to limit players.
To be honest, beck54 sounds like he's been listening to and now just parroting the rhetoric of some particular radio or TV shows, trying to absurdly frame the fact that he's effectively reducing diversity and freedom of choice for everyone else as a matter of his own personal "liberty". Obviously, those kinds of arguments are never logical, coherent or cogent.
You can rhetorically use words "freedom" or "liberty" to describe something, but that doesn't make it true -- just like calling something the Department of Peace isn't necessarily descriptive of what it actually does. But if you hear it often enough, it just might start sounding true, because the meaning of the word changes.
beck54's empty rhetoric is devoid of logical substance, and we all understand this; his "freedom of choice" is the opposite. If someone uses drains on you, you *have* to use wards to counter that if they're available to you. If wards aren't available to you, you die (unless you have some other massive advantage). So what he's arguing about isn't freedom of choice. It's his freedom to easily kill people who happen to not have access to wards; to be a bully and pug-slayer.
Nearly everyone else understands how bad these particular items are for PvP gameplay. It's mostly the players that aren't interested in PvP except as a way to stomp on others to feed their own ego that make absurd arguments about "earning" or "freedom".
The actual difference between your position and mine in this debate is that you wish to LIMIT players from in game items that are perfectly within the rules. I dont wish to tell anyone how they can play THEIR GAME ..
by all means if players want to be limited then they should vote with the echo chamber of those who wish to take away your ability to choose.
If players want the ability to play their game in an UNLIMITED way within the rules of the game, then they would agree with my position.
to the bold..... its logical you feel this way because you are inside your own echo chamber. According to several posters you types dont allow anyone in your premades or guilds who enjoy trying new ways to play their game. Maybe instead of posting about radio and tv shows on here you should get outside of the echo chamber and run with some players who enjoy the ability to play their own toon as they wish.
0
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
It was posted above that one of them even thinks rings and drains are great for 2k-3k only.... So they dont mind having the rings and drains in the game .....
they just only want the people who have no chance with or without using them against this block of players from guilds who have a desire to limit players.
Where did i ever say which rings or drains I thought were suitable for pvp and why ? for 2k-3k ? I believe you mis quote me sir that was placed there as a trap and you took the bait ..now your whole new fake argument is based on that lol
and your second comment makes no sense at all if they (pug) die either way why petion their removal on that basis alone ? lol
you dont get it this is to stop 3k-4k abusers and bullies ruining it for 2k-3ks due to poor or no match making as well
Comments
The mount healing bonuses are more of an issue than drains or rings.
like i said before i dont bother crying about them and I certainly wouldnt tell any other player they couldnt use them either.
unfortunately not everyone feels the same about letting people play their game how they wish to play. the problem is that its a small vocal minority who cry constantly or start biased threads like this one.
Lets start a new poll.
1. Let players have the freedom to play the game as they wish
or
2. Let a small vocal minority limit everyone's freedom to choose the way they play.
if it was better for me i am saying it could be 100 to 1 ratio if i chose to use drains hows does my ratio limit anyone else your logic is flawed
according to all the polls you are the small vocal minority lol
so this shows removed or not I will still score amongst the top 1% and has nothing to do with ego to inflate my score advocating their removal this has to do with balance for the other pug minority who have no voice here . with no access to
wards getting stomped
this is not a poll about mounts and healing bonuses and other broken things dont muddle the waters there are other forums posts on that subject
Lets start a new poll.
1. Let players have the freedom to post/vote in the forums as they wish
or
2. Let a small vocal minority cloud everyone's judjment to follow the way the minority votes in multiple polls
if you feel so strongly about it get you "minority" to start voting in some polls then
good day sir
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Rings and Drains are the backbone to achieve any sort of competitiveness for ranged characters in this absurd melee fest of one hit wonders. Beck is 100% correct on this matter. With any advantage from wards/drains there is a counter same with rings.
so you agree with him that it is correct for ranged but are implying not for melee because of the "melee fest" ? thereby inferring they are overpowered ?
having to use only 2 wards offers no diversity when the devs created tons for pvp
the issue is not if they are a counter to each other and that was not beck54 main points either
the ring of vision does not counter the ring of invisibility already discussed and explained in this thread bro
I actually made a poll a while back. Results and thread below.
Remove drains and Ambush/Cowardice rings? 147 votes
Yes remove both the drains and Ambush/Cowardice rings
81% 120 votes
No, don't remove the drains and Ambush/Cowardice rings
10% 15 votes
I don't care / I don't know
8% 12 votes
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1211286/remove-drains-and-ambush-cowardice-rings/p1
---------------------------
Drains add depth to the PVP experience.
13% 10 votes
Drains help lower geared players defeat higher geared players.
0%
Drains help lower skilled players defeat higher skilled players.
4% 3 votes
It gives guilds something to work towards.
1% 1 vote
It makes PVP worse by taking away from game mechanics.
40% 29 votes
Drains are a pathetic way for people with low skill and high gear score to stomp pug teams and feel better about themselves.
40% 29 votes
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1211590/are-pvp-drains-a-good-addition-to-the-game/p1
-----------------
Edit found a third thread more about ambush rings:
What should we do with Cowardice and Ambush rings? 126 votes
Nothing, they are awesome I always wanted to be a perma stealth, perma root class without playing a TR and/or HR!
15% 20 votes
Burn them with fire! Delete them!
69% 88 votes
Stronghold siege is already buggy with pets, why not leave them useful in that mess and take them out of Domi and GG?
14% 18 votes
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1209613/what-should-we-do-with-cowardice-and-ambush-rings/p1
Any respons to these?
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
You keep on about lack of diversity that the drains, wards, rings offer. You do realize that by lessening everyone's options you are taking away from diversity.
Or is diversity only a good thing if it's your version of diversity?
I don't doubt that you have honest intentions to improve the game but taking away legitimate options for players isn't helping anyone but maybe yourself or those who also want to limit everyone else.
@metalldjt
You said "it's not diversity when those stuff are hated" .... Hated by whom? You? Where do you get off trying to tell the rest of us how we can or can't play our toons? What you are suggesting is the exact opposite of diversity. What you want is to tell everyone what is good for them and what is not because it's in your best interests.
@kalina311
By taking them away I have less options to use when playing my toons. You act like wards are automatically used if someone uses drains. I would like to think we have creative enough players to come up with a way to force someone to not use drains.
Glad you liked the your version of diversity comment. I couldn't very well say my version....
It's the player freedom side vs the limit players side...
It's not too late you can join us over here on the player freedom side. We have a spot for ya. ;P
" I would like to think we have creative enough players to come up with a way to force someone to not use drains. "
we have come up with a way its called the forums and polls : D and not admitting such players into guilds and premades using those items.
By the way im cool with a 2k-3k item level character using any of these items due to how badly balanced the system is
Not admiring people in guilds or premade a who use a legitimate part of the game?
That's ridiculous and condescending.... So just because you want to lord over players and force your way or the highway playstyle then please limit that to the sheep that you get to join those guilds.
As for the rest of us we enjoy the freedom to play how we wish to play as long as it's within the rules.
Now if you want to talk exploits ... Then yes I'm with you. But bashing a completely legitimate and permissible way to play the game is just over the top.
You even make the comment yourself that you support some players to use these item.... You acknowledge that there is a place in game for these items.
But oh wait it's only for the lowbies that you can slaughter regardless.
Personally I am glad to be In a guild that doesn't limit players.
If players enjoy being slaves to someone else's whimes then they can join the guilds that limit players.
It's not conclusive at all. You guys have your own echo chamber. Everyone who has posted pro drains/rings have backed it up and taken down every anti drain/ring argument.
I applaud those other posters for speaking out.
I can wear an Ambush Ring+5 and a Ring of Vanishing Presence+5 and literally make the Trickster Rougue Deception Mechanic obsolete. That is beyond broken and I do not care what anyone says otherwise. It is a chump and cheap way to kill someone and is used by so many players just like you. I don't want them nerfed, I don't want them toned down, what I want is them completely out of this game. They serve no purpose, and no one but the TR deserves stealth because that is in their class mechanic. If you want to play and have stealth play a TR.
You use "diversity" as an excuse to justify why you want them in the game which is such a bad way to express why they should stay in the game, considering their is much more rings you can use than those 2 rings, and thats a fact.
Make a TR sometime bro. (:
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
So drop your amusing act of calling the people who are for the removal as "vocal minority" or calling the forum vote an "echo chamber". They have? Selective perception on your end, I guess.
There are no 1-to-1 counters to ambush / drains (exception: AP ward rank 2). Period. But even if there were - and since your favorite buzzword seems to be #diversity - being unable to dodge or sprint out of attacks because of 0 stamina thanks to drains, limits (= opposite of #diversity) your game.
So yes, we pro-removal people are for #diversity - by not having to slot wards / 33% counter rings.
Ring of Natural Order for a time was available on the preview server, so in game, and following your logic, legit to use, because it was there. The devs thankfully never released it, because they realized how broken it was. But I guess you would like to have this ring in game as well. And those who'd argue against it, you'd tell them to "just not use any kind of (self) buffs, which get taken away by this ring". #diversity
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
The reality is that there is a small echo chamber who want to take away options for players, <They dont trust them to be able to use in game items as how choose. They prefer to limit those options because its not in their best interests or the best interests of the handful of guilds who are trying to exert themselves on the rest of us who enjoy the ability to play out toons how we wish.
These are the same people who only want toons played in the cookie cutter method that THEY choose....that ensures they keep themselves and their guilds relevant.
It was posted above that one of them even thinks rings and drains are great for 2k-3k only.... So they dont mind having the rings and drains in the game ..... they just only want the people who have no chance with or without using them against this block of players from guilds who have a desire to limit players.
The actual difference between your position and mine in this debate is that you wish to LIMIT players from in game items that are perfectly within the rules. I dont wish to tell anyone how they can play THEIR GAME ..
by all means if players want to be limited then they should vote with the echo chamber of those who wish to take away your ability to choose.
If players want the ability to play their game in an UNLIMITED way within the rules of the game, then they would agree with my position.
to the bold..... its logical you feel this way because you are inside your own echo chamber. According to several posters you types dont allow anyone in your premades or guilds who enjoy trying new ways to play their game. Maybe instead of posting about radio and tv shows on here you should get outside of the echo chamber and run with some players who enjoy the ability to play their own toon as they wish.
and your second comment makes no sense at all if they (pug) die either way why petion their removal on that basis alone ? lol
you dont get it this is to stop 3k-4k abusers and bullies ruining it for 2k-3ks due to poor or no match making as well