I agree with a lot of players here saying that new maps -while being awesome- are of little help if fundamental problems aren´t being solved first.
The first step seems to be to increase the amount of players interested in PVP. In order to achieve this I would suggest a match in which toons are equalized (as has been suggested many times). All enchantments set to rank 7, fixed tenacity, guild boons set to a matching fixed amount, all artifacts set to purple, no boons from mounts other than speed. Create copy toon on entering the map without ability to change gear. Results might not count towards leaderboard, ad reward might be less than "regular" PVP but glory should be awarded so that new players or old players new to PVP will be able to purchase PVP gear. Add chance to get rare (sellable) items when winning in order to make rewards appealing for everyone. This would be awesome for new players without good gear, PVE players without PVP gear and I don´t see any reason why this wouldn´t be fun for experienced/BIS PVPers as well. It would bring the whole playerbase together and allow for characters of all power levels to play with/against each other in matches that are fun and require skill/teamwork. I think it´s reasonable to expect that there won´t be a long wait for this q to pop and that this will encourage many more players to do PVP. You probably wouldn´t loose so many new players who play a few matches, get pulverized, look at how insanely costly and/or time consuming it would be to get somewhat decent gear to avoid instant annihilation (and then still play wildly unbalanced/unfun matches) and then leave and never do PVP again.
The next step would be to introduce a better queue-system for the "regular" matches, allowing to choose between setting up both teams 5 vs. 5, solo vs.solo, premade vs. premade (as others have said). As for IL-brackets...while that sounds like a perfectly reasonable idea (with a more meaningful IL-system than the current one at least) at first sight and technical problems might not be insurmountable, I don´t see it coming. That might work for a game where advancing your toon is less painful and grindy and there´s interesting and challenging PVE content for all power stages and thus a good number of players in all IL-brackets that might be set up. That´s not the case in NWO. I think the core problem of this game is that they allowed characters to get ever more powerful creating a HUGE power gap between the newly made Lvl. 70 character and the BIS or near-BIS character without the possibility for the newly made character to bridge that gap within reasonable time and without loosing their minds (or pension savings...:P). So the highest IL-bracket is (most likely) sparsely populated compared to the rest so it makes little to have a PVP-IL-bracket for those. They might die of loneliness in that bracket...I mean, why would the regular new player even aspire to get into that bracket at all...? No appropriate PVE content and then on top of that no pug PVP match popping anymore...all the while they can easily avoid ever meeting BIS or near-BIS players in PVP...:P I don´t see Cryptic punishing players for spending tons of time and/or money on their game while at the same time taking away the reason (for some few players at least) to do the same to get to BIS. Of course you can´t turn back the clock once you´ve already allowed toons to become so powerful, so the reasonable thing to do now appears to be making character advancement easier up to a certain point - find ways to create a new mass centre at 3k IL while putting a complete stop on introducing anything that would allow toons at the top end to become even more powerful (no uber-mythic artifacts, no artifact boots, no more freakin´ boons etc.). Instead, in order to keep already top-geared players occupied, introduce variety - different (not more powerful) gear sets, for example, more options to specialize your toon instead of making it more powerful.
If it´s easier/less painfully boring to advance your toon to 3k IL you could even think about actually implementing more challenging PVE content (gated at 3k IL, then 3.5k+) thus making the (now less ridiculously lengthy and boring) experience of advancing your toon even more rewarding. Also, while this doesn´t change the fact that a 2k toon will get its butt whipped by 3k+ toons in PVP - it will be less discouraging because 1. you will be able to play the equalized version while seriously undergeared, 2. you can take the time to set up premade 5 vs. 5 and 3. (important) while you won´t get there overnight, you will have a steady sense of progression to IL 3k (so you can hope for revenge on 3.5k tr pulverizing you with one hit before you´ve grown a long white beard or die of boredom grinding or well, just quit) and 4.while advancing your toon you can look forward to unlocking/being rewarded with new PVE content at higher IL thus giving you a serious reason to advance your toon for PVE too. One would have to think of ways to boost advancement unequally though...making it easier for low geared toons to advance while preventing already highly geared toons from shooting towards BIS...which wouldn´t be helpful...neither for PVP nor PVE ...would be a pity if the newly made 3k+ dungeons would be a cakewalk for a ton of players all too soon. One idea to achieve better progression (aside from putting back coal. wards in the tamarlune shop, cutting rp for artifacts to a quarter of what it is now (that would at least roll things back to the state before the bot fight...:P) etc.) would be more BtC rewards that are highly beneficial to low-geared toons (different rp types for example) but less so for already highly geared toons (with already maxed out artifacts/artifact gear) who will only be able to salvage them for some minor ad reward (or just go for levelling different artifacts/sets in order to try out new builds). One would have to come up with more ideas though... The way things are makes both PVE and PVP a sad mess that cannot be solved by new 2k IL dungeons or a new PVP map. And while I don´t have access to your accounts of course I cannot think of a single freakin´ reason why making character progression ever more painful while not offering appropriate PVE content for more highly geared toons and while being completely unable to offer a fun PVP stage for Lvl. 70 characters would earn you more money than having happy players who don´t think advancing their toons has turned into a rather pointless chore and who don´t think acquiring that costly armour enchantment just for PVP is far more pain than PVP will ever be fun...:P
So, yah...while I loved some of the ideas being put forward here for new maps I am convinced they would have to be part of some crucial but perfectly doable structural changes. Good thing about those changes is that most players will most likely be absolutely giddy about them instead of starting a whine-fest...;P So most likely more money and a longer life for the game. (the way to get money from players is not inflicting pain (grind) without reward (appropriate dungeons/nice PVP)...it´s REALLY NOT...well, I don´t have the data, but hell, I´d be surprised) Make progression less painful and then offer dungeons -3k IL, later 3.5k IL with fun mechanics, rewards and serious buttwhipping for bad teamwork/play- the ultimate dungeon experience...cash raining from happy players who want to gear up more quickly to get there. Better than any new campaign that just adds repetitiveness and boons you need for nothing and actually serve to frustrate new players because there´s already so many of them it´s overpowering. More FUN group PVE/PVP.
So: implement more meaningful IL system, make progression easier as mentioned above, then make the next modules story revolve around the new dungeons and PVP maps, without a grindy or repetitive campaign and boons that further inflate stats. Maybe play through some little story to give background on the dungeons and unlock them and titles or other fun stuff for successfully mastering them. Maybe add "guild-challenge-mode" for one dungeon where two guild premades do the same dungeon and the team who did it most elegantly (points for amount of time and amount of deaths and maybe other factors) wins and gets some additional rewards. Maybe announce a winning team weekly on some dungeoneering leaderboard..:P Alright, i´ll just stop writing now. I know this wall of text most likely won´t effect anything but it was actually quite fun trying to think like a dev of this game...must be a FUN job...especially if you have HAPPY players...;D
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kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
As one of the people who used to pvp, but no longer will. There is very little that would get me back to pvp for several reasons:
a) my pvp spec is mutually exclusive with my pve spec, so I'm not going to burn respec tokens or run a compromised build. (And no, I'm not going to maintain a exclusively pvp toon). b) lag & erratic input (skills don't trigger reliably, when eligible for activation) compared to other games I've pvp'd in. c) wards & drains, and similar broken designs (see recent rings for examples). d) trying to keep up with the overpowered abusive mechanic of the month. e) lack of maps/scenarios. f) cost to compete. g) lack of faith in substantial change.
Solo queue is a great idea. Solo or full team only (less that full team is a solo pug for each member of the team). Full team matches only other full teams. So premade vs premade only.
Private PvP queues where you can create both teams however you'd like in a queue group. STO does this and it's awesome.
Additional modes I'd love to see: Capture the Flag Deathmatch (no points to cap - points from kills/assists only) Maps with more tricks and traps (like the bridge in GG). Arena combat mode where each person on the team fights 1-1 in single/double elimination matches until one team is left standing. Open World PvP location in the SH map
To those looking for specific responses to feedback, I'm explicitly avoiding doing that in this thread. The direction this thread took wasn't initially how I'd imagined it but I like the discussion I'm seeing and don't want to steer the discussions one way or another.
I'll also reiterate that we do read all your posts even though we don't reply to most.
I had already lost faith that you guys were even aware this thread is still breathing LOL. I have to agree with @xsayajinx1... More communication back and forth. People are very reluctant to invest time, energy, emotion, money into a game they have no clue what you guys are even thinking.
So atleast now we have SOME feedback, "The direction this thread took wasn't initially how I'd imagined it" which makes me wonder many things... Like, what DID you imagine? But then I wonder when you say this, "we do read all your posts even though we don't reply to most." and it makes me wonder if you DO read our posts.... Because frankly when you posted this thread, what has happened in here and what the comments have been is EXACTLY what I expected based on the countless forum posts about everything in here. So if you did read everything, then you could have guessed most of the feedback in here. I Digress now...
I think overall the #1 thing players want to see, and its posted over and over in here, is a more "fair" PVP. Right now the gear gap is FAR too large. The power difference in PVP between a "fresh" 70 versus a "moderately geared" 70 isnt a HUGE amount, but compare either of those to a "BIS" 70 and you could literally have 5 3k players take on my 4k+ GWF and I would either come out on top OR make it a tough match...
I dont care how much gear someone has, power scaling should never create that large a gap.
I have played this game for years. I have been BIS for years. I have even been #1 on the PVP leaderboard for a few days back in module 3 days when population was at its peak. What I can definitively tell you the absolute BEST path to go from where we are today.... It would be to remove boons completely from Domination.
This would be the FIRST step in lowering gear gap. Another would be to diminish the impact of drains, insignias and mounts - which are all HUGE HUGE HUGE power increases that the normal or average player wont have access too.
I would suggest making it "vanilla" as possible. Meaning no boons, no mount bonuses, no 'secondary artifacts' (primary is fine). No overloads, no insignias.
Just pure gear + enchants + primary artifact. Period. There will always be a power gap, but you will find it MUCH easier to balance PVP doing this and see MANY more people interested in PVP since the power gap will be cut by a MASSIVE MASSIVE amount.
This also has BIG impact in that a player can structure ALL their boons for PVE, they can get mounts or PVE, insignias, overloads etc etc ALL for PVE, rather than needing all this for PVP as well. Which will be a BIG QOL increase for most people and make PVP more accessible to more people.
"Before this thread, I couldn't remember when a Dev ever interacted with this particular forum."
neither can they .... but they probably were lurking and reading tho
BBASCOMDEV CRYPTIC DEVELOPER
Username bbascomdev Joined June 2015 Visits 22 Last Active May 20 Roles Member Posts 3
last active in the forums (not just including this thread) 5 days ago shortly after putting up this post but i actually think in all fairness there is more then 1 dev reading the post and the account could be a shell account for multiple people I'm willing to be patient a bit
We don't need to be logged in to read the posts
To those looking for specific responses to feedback, I'm explicitly avoiding doing that in this thread. The direction this thread took wasn't initially how I'd imagined it but I like the discussion I'm seeing and don't want to steer the discussions one way or another.
I'll also reiterate that we do read all your posts even though we don't reply to most.
Sooo I wrote that comment last week to bait you into a response jokingly I might add : D and yes you dont need to be logged in to read them however you felt the need to log in to defend yourself to respond many days later even after I posted... If this were true (monitoring feedback daily even with other accounts) )would you not have refuted my claim and responded right away ? that delayed response only supports my original claim (light/ lack of forum involvement) as being true . : D
so had the thread took a direction you would have imagined you would have given more comments? that is what is being alluded to ? which direction should the thread take "initially" in order to get more comments from you then ? so if its not going the way you like "initially "then no comment then ?
so you are avoiding giving feedback about your feedback : D
So what type of thread can you/we open up and phrase a question such that we will get comments from Devs ?
A discussion Is 2 ways If you like it so much then participate !
Please put a +1 next to the ideas you like then just like you asked us to : D
You not wanting to stear the discussion one ways or another so as to remain impartial ?? let us focus on things that are possible take some charge here !! start assembling and ranking the feedback to present to the personnel in charge of allocating time and resources before the ship goes down
P.S make sure to let the bosses know that there are ways to monetize this and it still be balanced/ fair by introducing color pvp dies / glowing stuff whatever /custom logos hats zen store items flags taunts etc ... so that you will not contribute to power creep issues but will contribute to your (cryptic's ) bottom line
P.S.S Make some coupons thats drop in pvp only as well your bosses will love that Idea and give more approval to stuff that takes longer to develop ..focus the pitch on how they will make money from this : D Then everything Magically get approved and more job security for you
P.S.S.S I still think you are on our side ...you just need this ammo information to bring to your bosses right ? To justify some project allocation / resources ??
P.S.S.S.S I heard you are allowed to bring Dogs/ Pets to work Over there at Cryptic nice : D
Post edited by kalina311 on
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
do you actually believe us that pvp needs overhaul before add a new mode? yes or no?
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited June 2016
Have contest or a draw that the best suggestions get to alpha Test the new pvp Changes with / For you as well Sign me up I will sign the non disclosure as well : D You can t just have non PVP QA test this properly in all aspects as well
Username kalina311 Joined July 2013 Visits 508 Last Active 5:01PM Roles Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts 120
Signs up .. CW Best in slot For PVP testing and balancing
P.S time for Cryptic to chose some class champions again for feedback like they had before
Just add a box that we can check before queing that makes us que for Equalized PvP action. Add another page to character sheet so that the premade PvP items can be selected before matches. Let everyclass select from a bunch of blue items and only normal enchants for their matches. No new map, no effort. Just Fun, like we all had back in module 2.
i see a lot of new people complaining here because of item lvl not being same to all. i know this comment of mine is off topic, but i'd say to everyone who wants to be equal gear as others - not everyone who's 4k is p2w and 70% of them farmed their items in pve (with a lot of grind) and then came to pvp. i think you should do same and farm instead of complaining. (PvP in every game is for people with good items)
As for new pvp mod, i think we don't really need new mod, since as others said we don't have much pvp players and for me, only salvation to this problem would be to increase AD gaining from all sources and make it for new people to grind less.
i see a lot of new people complaining here because of item lvl not being same to all. i know this comment of mine is off topic, but i'd say to everyone who wants to be equal gear as others - not everyone who's 4k is p2w and 70% of them farmed their items in pve (with a lot of grind) and then came to pvp. i think you should do same and farm instead of complaining. (PvP in every game is for people with good items)
As for new pvp mod, i think we don't really need new mod, since as others said we don't have much pvp players and for me, only salvation to this problem would be to increase AD gaining from all sources and make it for new people to grind less.
even players who grind this game for years cant compete with top guild premades, because most power creep cant even be grinded alone or with your friends. dont tell people to sacrifice literally everything and join pvp guild when they only expect to have fun at pvp (you cant be member of more guilds in this game)
i know many games with equalized pvp one way or another
First of all just add duels!We need duels to train with a friend or just try new things in our characters.Also a capture a flag event will be so sweet!Finally (i know its difficult) i think it would be great if you add arena matches with ranked system for 2vs2 or 3vs3 teams!
First of all just add duels!We need duels to train with a friend or just try new things in our characters.Also a capture a flag event will be so sweet!Finally (i know its difficult) i think it would be great if you add arena matches with ranked system for 2vs2 or 3vs3 teams!
You can already duel in the module 3 zones - Dwarven valley and IWP. So we really dont need to spend DEV time on creating something that can already be done with ease in game.
A CTF game could be fun, however what will you do when an immortal paladin picks up your flag and you and your buddies cant kill him - even ALL focusing him? I think some balance needs to happen there before CTF comes into play...
Arena - now THIS could be a fun system if it worked like WoWs did back in the day (might even still IDK). You create a "team", would be much like a guild but WAY smaller. Your team ques up for the arena style game. Its a deathmatch - 1 life per person. Only people in the team can que up. Team has a visible "rating" that goes up or down based on wins/losses.
I would STRONGLY suggest AGAINST a 2v2 or 3v3 as its going to be a NIGHTMARE with balance. If you make a game that focuses on smaller teams, classes will emerge as having a CLEAR advantage and then everyone will feel compelled to use that class or lose, you will see countless threads pop up about said class... dont go down that road.
In fact, a "happy medium" between the "Solo -Q and Premade -Q" systems could be to make these arena teams consist of a 5 man team, making it a "premade only".
So now, you have an "unraked" open domination - the current platform. Then create "teams" where you can have a max of say ~15 players, that require a 5 man to group together for the Que, and this teams rank goes up or down based on win.losses.
MOST of the premades will do this "team" approach, que as a team, and want their ranking to be shown for bragging rights... While the solo Qers (or groups of players) will do the unranked Que - which is the current system.
> @bbascomdev said: > What new PvP mode would you like to see in Neverwinter? Capture the flag? Free-for-all king of the hill? Dragon-riding baseball? Put your best ideas down here and +1 the ideas you like most.
When rogue for 1 blow kills palo-tank 2300+, when the hunter takes down 100% in miles zone and constantly keeps you in roots and just kills, you can't move, you can't attack. It is pvp?
Final score 0-100: 1000 almost in all fights. It is pvp?
Ordinary players play against specially collected group, and just stand on a fire. 5 players can't kill even 1... 1 player kills all team of the opponent. It is pvp?
Even doesn't smell of the minimum balance.
Readiness of pvp at the 70th level: 0/100
Pvp it is dead in game, absolutely. And no modes will rescue him
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
please stop saying equalization of gear wont happen. we can easily have regular equalization pvp mod and NCL mode with "all" gear ))))
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
First thanks for opening this thread! The following is what I and many others would love to see in game.
1) Solo pvp in world map This means you can right click a player and choose (Battle player). - once both players have accepted combat que, a green circle should appear with a 30 meter radius. Combat ends when a player dies or is out of the 30 meter combat circle for more than 30 seconds. - once combat ends the combat radius circle vanishes and pvp can no longer happen until next accepted challenge.
2) team pvp in world map This means two party leaders can click each other and choose (battle team). - once both teams have accepted que, a 60m combat circle appears on the ground (looks like an aoe warning alert circle) and combat begins after a 30 second countdown timer. - combat ends when all players on a single team are defeated.
3) capture the flag - person holding the flag cannot use any encounters, attacks, tab skills, cannot be healed or buffed by team players artifacts mounts or accessories. - person holding the flag gets 50k hp bonus - person holding the flag gains cc immunity - person holding the flag is shown on map radar - person holding the flag gets defense boost of 4000 - person holding the flag cannot mount. - once killed the flag stays on ground for 30 seconds then resets to base position. - if you touch your own flag on ground it teleports back to your base reset point.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
@morenthar and @vinceent1 I guess technical problems might not prevent neither bracketing nor equalized pvp but the p2w model (as it is now) actually makes -both- options problematic. But one could try to work around those with a more complex approach - as I have tried to do in my ridiculously lengthy post.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
It would be nice to be able to talk to a npc in the protectors enclave and choose between normal mode and open world pvp mode.
Make it like 200zen to change between the modes.
1) when open world pvp mode is on A. A floating skull a pears over players head to indicate mode. B. You can pvp players for xp in this mode. C. You can only kill players that have skulls over their heads D. Once you have killed someone you get a red skull over your head. C. If someone kills you in red skull mode they obtain xp and 10% of your total coins carried.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
The PvP is big problem in those days and it will be much worse if there will be no changes. Devs should really think about add few more options (after 3 years -,-) to make it softly more balanced or a bunch of people playing this game's variant will be reduced from day to day and finaly pvp (like someone had earlier said) will be totaly dead.
1. First and the most immportant - do not rework any existing mods - add some new, fresh and let players choose what they want to play. 2. Solo queue (as has been proposed at the beginning of the topic) - and once again - as new option big Yes but if there will be only solo queue as pvp option it doesnt make players more happy than today, thrust me - how we can force people to play with randoms instead of friends.
3. Clean match -and ofc once again - new option not rework - let players fight in true pvp match and show their skills without mounts boons, insignias, stronghold boons, overload slots, broken rings, vip account profits, potions (and some other stuff which i could forget). Why no rework at all: People grind really hard or spend interesting amount of cash and cant be forced to do not use all this things their truly deserve. Why it will be good new option: we can compare this to sport in real life when natural athlete faced to sportsman using anabolic/steroids - all know how it will end (in 98% of cases). Those days no skills need in pvp in my opinion, just stack power and arpen and one hit or in better option one combo everything and everywhere. Let players know the mechanics of their class, skills, tactic and prove they are reallygood in pvp.
4. Under 2k gear score -,- - God help me please - i know, swear i know each of us once was beginning but today players lower than 2k die from 2-3 atwill hits (in my case and i am only 3.5 gs) - they better fit to 69 level pvp than 70 - in 85% of matches one player with so low item level probably ruin the domination.
5. Remove tencaity (also has been proposed earlier) - from my point of view - NO WAY - tenacity distinguish pvp players from pve (after build ofc), ther is no hard way to get descent pvp equipment.
6. Last but not less important - PvP Ranking and rewards - Please rebuild this funny schedule in seriously and reliable RANKING which will be fairly reflects the actions of the players in PvP. Not only sorting by kills/deaths or win/lost but in overall. Add better rewards for match to encourage masses of people to participate PvP. Going forward - not only for single match but for example 10 wins in a row or 5 lost in a row (yup i am not brainless - players discourage very fast if they are lose a few times in a row. Let's show them that it's worth the effort too and keep them run PvP again and again. Monthly and annual/seasonal rewards (before ranking's reset). Top 3, top 10, top 100, top 1000 - people will feel there is some case to participate PvP like in NCL some time ago.
I truly believe this 6 changes realy contribute to much bigger balance and keep PvP mod alive.
At the end please consider is possible - in game which is 3 years old and is based on neverending grind - achive the total balance
turzan, you means what has made WoW popular from the point of view of PvP?
When there were neither arenas nor BG yet. There was a remarkable zone Northern Barrens-> Crossroads in which without any rules more than 5000+ players were at war for a small piece of the earth, and believe it was very cheerful. Even the strongest player making a mistake I died instantly. And what we see here, with 4k IL + stronghold will kill any solo all team of the opponent.
Comments
Thank you sir
The first step seems to be to increase the amount of players interested in PVP.
In order to achieve this I would suggest a match in which toons are equalized (as has been suggested many times). All enchantments set to rank 7, fixed tenacity, guild boons set to a matching fixed amount, all artifacts set to purple, no boons from mounts other than speed. Create copy toon on entering the map without ability to change gear.
Results might not count towards leaderboard, ad reward might be less than "regular" PVP but glory should be awarded so that new players or old players new to PVP will be able to purchase PVP gear. Add chance to get rare (sellable) items when winning in order to make rewards appealing for everyone.
This would be awesome for new players without good gear, PVE players without PVP gear and I don´t see any reason why this wouldn´t be fun for experienced/BIS PVPers as well. It would bring the whole playerbase together and allow for characters of all power levels to play with/against each other in matches that are fun and require skill/teamwork. I think it´s reasonable to expect that there won´t be a long wait for this q to pop and that this will encourage many more players to do PVP. You probably wouldn´t loose so many new players who play a few matches, get pulverized, look at how insanely costly and/or time consuming it would be to get somewhat decent gear to avoid instant annihilation (and then still play wildly unbalanced/unfun matches) and then leave and never do PVP again.
The next step would be to introduce a better queue-system for the "regular" matches, allowing to choose between setting up both teams 5 vs. 5, solo vs.solo, premade vs. premade (as others have said).
As for IL-brackets...while that sounds like a perfectly reasonable idea (with a more meaningful IL-system than the current one at least) at first sight and technical problems might not be insurmountable, I don´t see it coming. That might work for a game where advancing your toon is less painful and grindy and there´s interesting and challenging PVE content for all power stages and thus a good number of players in all IL-brackets that might be set up. That´s not the case in NWO. I think the core problem of this game is that they allowed characters to get ever more powerful creating a HUGE power gap between the newly made Lvl. 70 character and the BIS or near-BIS character without the possibility for the newly made character to bridge that gap within reasonable time and without loosing their minds (or pension savings...:P). So the highest IL-bracket is (most likely) sparsely populated compared to the rest so it makes little to have a PVP-IL-bracket for those. They might die of loneliness in that bracket...I mean, why would the regular new player even aspire to get into that bracket at all...? No appropriate PVE content and then on top of that no pug PVP match popping anymore...all the while they can easily avoid ever meeting BIS or near-BIS players in PVP...:P I don´t see Cryptic punishing players for spending tons of time and/or money on their game while at the same time taking away the reason (for some few players at least) to do the same to get to BIS.
Of course you can´t turn back the clock once you´ve already allowed toons to become so powerful, so the reasonable thing to do now appears to be making character advancement easier up to a certain point - find ways to create a new mass centre at 3k IL while putting a complete stop on introducing anything that would allow toons at the top end to become even more powerful (no uber-mythic artifacts, no artifact boots, no more freakin´ boons etc.). Instead, in order to keep already top-geared players occupied, introduce variety - different (not more powerful) gear sets, for example, more options to specialize your toon instead of making it more powerful.
If it´s easier/less painfully boring to advance your toon to 3k IL you could even think about actually implementing more challenging PVE content (gated at 3k IL, then 3.5k+) thus making the (now less ridiculously lengthy and boring) experience of advancing your toon even more rewarding. Also, while this doesn´t change the fact that a 2k toon will get its butt whipped by 3k+ toons in PVP - it will be less discouraging because 1. you will be able to play the equalized version while seriously undergeared, 2. you can take the time to set up premade 5 vs. 5 and 3. (important) while you won´t get there overnight, you will have a steady sense of progression to IL 3k (so you can hope for revenge on 3.5k tr pulverizing you with one hit before you´ve grown a long white beard or die of boredom grinding or well, just quit) and 4.while advancing your toon you can look forward to unlocking/being rewarded with new PVE content at higher IL thus giving you a serious reason to advance your toon for PVE too.
One would have to think of ways to boost advancement unequally though...making it easier for low geared toons to advance while preventing already highly geared toons from shooting towards BIS...which wouldn´t be helpful...neither for PVP nor PVE ...would be a pity if the newly made 3k+ dungeons would be a cakewalk for a ton of players all too soon.
One idea to achieve better progression (aside from putting back coal. wards in the tamarlune shop, cutting rp for artifacts to a quarter of what it is now (that would at least roll things back to the state before the bot fight...:P) etc.) would be more BtC rewards that are highly beneficial to low-geared toons (different rp types for example) but less so for already highly geared toons (with already maxed out artifacts/artifact gear) who will only be able to salvage them for some minor ad reward (or just go for levelling different artifacts/sets in order to try out new builds). One would have to come up with more ideas though...
The way things are makes both PVE and PVP a sad mess that cannot be solved by new 2k IL dungeons or a new PVP map. And while I don´t have access to your accounts of course I cannot think of a single freakin´ reason why making character progression ever more painful while not offering appropriate PVE content for more highly geared toons and while being completely unable to offer a fun PVP stage for Lvl. 70 characters would earn you more money than having happy players who don´t think advancing their toons has turned into a rather pointless chore and who don´t think acquiring that costly armour enchantment just for PVP is far more pain than PVP will ever be fun...:P
So, yah...while I loved some of the ideas being put forward here for new maps I am convinced they would have to be part of some crucial but perfectly doable structural changes. Good thing about those changes is that most players will most likely be absolutely giddy about them instead of starting a whine-fest...;P So most likely more money and a longer life for the game. (the way to get money from players is not inflicting pain (grind) without reward (appropriate dungeons/nice PVP)...it´s REALLY NOT...well, I don´t have the data, but hell, I´d be surprised) Make progression less painful and then offer dungeons -3k IL, later 3.5k IL with fun mechanics, rewards and serious buttwhipping for bad teamwork/play- the ultimate dungeon experience...cash raining from happy players who want to gear up more quickly to get there.
Better than any new campaign that just adds repetitiveness and boons you need for nothing and actually serve to frustrate new players because there´s already so many of them it´s overpowering. More FUN group PVE/PVP.
So: implement more meaningful IL system, make progression easier as mentioned above, then make the next modules story revolve around the new dungeons and PVP maps, without a grindy or repetitive campaign and boons that further inflate stats. Maybe play through some little story to give background on the dungeons and unlock them and titles or other fun stuff for successfully mastering them. Maybe add "guild-challenge-mode" for one dungeon where two guild premades do the same dungeon and the team who did it most elegantly (points for amount of time and amount of deaths and maybe other factors) wins and gets some additional rewards. Maybe announce a winning team weekly on some dungeoneering leaderboard..:P Alright, i´ll just stop writing now.
I know this wall of text most likely won´t effect anything but it was actually quite fun trying to think like a dev of this game...must be a FUN job...especially if you have HAPPY players...;D
a) my pvp spec is mutually exclusive with my pve spec, so I'm not going to burn respec tokens or run a compromised build. (And no, I'm not going to maintain a exclusively pvp toon).
b) lag & erratic input (skills don't trigger reliably, when eligible for activation) compared to other games I've pvp'd in.
c) wards & drains, and similar broken designs (see recent rings for examples).
d) trying to keep up with the overpowered abusive mechanic of the month.
e) lack of maps/scenarios.
f) cost to compete.
g) lack of faith in substantial change.
Private PvP queues where you can create both teams however you'd like in a queue group. STO does this and it's awesome.
Additional modes I'd love to see:
Capture the Flag
Deathmatch (no points to cap - points from kills/assists only)
Maps with more tricks and traps (like the bridge in GG).
Arena combat mode where each person on the team fights 1-1 in single/double elimination matches until one team is left standing.
Open World PvP location in the SH map
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
I had already lost faith that you guys were even aware this thread is still breathing LOL. I have to agree with @xsayajinx1... More communication back and forth. People are very reluctant to invest time, energy, emotion, money into a game they have no clue what you guys are even thinking.
So atleast now we have SOME feedback, "The direction this thread took wasn't initially how I'd imagined it" which makes me wonder many things... Like, what DID you imagine? But then I wonder when you say this, "we do read all your posts even though we don't reply to most." and it makes me wonder if you DO read our posts.... Because frankly when you posted this thread, what has happened in here and what the comments have been is EXACTLY what I expected based on the countless forum posts about everything in here. So if you did read everything, then you could have guessed most of the feedback in here. I Digress now...
I think overall the #1 thing players want to see, and its posted over and over in here, is a more "fair" PVP. Right now the gear gap is FAR too large. The power difference in PVP between a "fresh" 70 versus a "moderately geared" 70 isnt a HUGE amount, but compare either of those to a "BIS" 70 and you could literally have 5 3k players take on my 4k+ GWF and I would either come out on top OR make it a tough match...
I dont care how much gear someone has, power scaling should never create that large a gap.
I have played this game for years. I have been BIS for years. I have even been #1 on the PVP leaderboard for a few days back in module 3 days when population was at its peak. What I can definitively tell you the absolute BEST path to go from where we are today.... It would be to remove boons completely from Domination.
This would be the FIRST step in lowering gear gap. Another would be to diminish the impact of drains, insignias and mounts - which are all HUGE HUGE HUGE power increases that the normal or average player wont have access too.
I would suggest making it "vanilla" as possible. Meaning no boons, no mount bonuses, no 'secondary artifacts' (primary is fine). No overloads, no insignias.
Just pure gear + enchants + primary artifact. Period. There will always be a power gap, but you will find it MUCH easier to balance PVP doing this and see MANY more people interested in PVP since the power gap will be cut by a MASSIVE MASSIVE amount.
This also has BIG impact in that a player can structure ALL their boons for PVE, they can get mounts or PVE, insignias, overloads etc etc ALL for PVE, rather than needing all this for PVP as well. Which will be a BIG QOL increase for most people and make PVP more accessible to more people.
so had the thread took a direction you would have imagined you would have given more comments? that is what is being alluded to ? which direction should the thread take "initially" in order to get more comments from you then ? so if its not going the way you like "initially "then no comment then ?
so you are avoiding giving feedback about your feedback : D
So what type of thread can you/we open up and phrase a question such that we will get comments from Devs ?
A discussion Is 2 ways If you like it so much then participate !
Please put a +1 next to the ideas you like then just like you asked us to : D
You not wanting to stear the discussion one ways or another so as to remain impartial ?? let us focus on things that are possible take some charge here !! start assembling and ranking the feedback to present to the personnel in charge of allocating time and resources before the ship goes down
P.S make sure to let the bosses know that there are ways to monetize this and it still be balanced/ fair by introducing color pvp dies / glowing stuff whatever /custom logos hats zen store items flags taunts etc ... so that you will not contribute to power creep issues but will contribute to your (cryptic's ) bottom line
P.S.S Make some coupons thats drop in pvp only as well your bosses will love that Idea and give more approval to stuff that takes longer to develop ..focus the pitch on how they will make money from this : D Then everything Magically get approved and more job security for you
P.S.S.S I still think you are on our side ...you just need this ammo information to bring to your bosses right ? To justify some project allocation / resources ??
P.S.S.S.S I heard you are allowed to bring Dogs/ Pets to work Over there at Cryptic nice : D
do you actually believe us that pvp needs overhaul before add a new mode? yes or no?
Sign me up I will sign the non disclosure as well : D You can t just have non PVP QA test this properly in all aspects as well
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Signs up .. CW Best in slot For PVP testing and balancing
P.S time for Cryptic to chose some class champions again for feedback like they had before
(PvP in every game is for people with good items)
As for new pvp mod, i think we don't really need new mod, since as others said we don't have much pvp players and for me, only salvation to this problem would be to increase AD gaining from all sources and make it for new people to grind less.
i know many games with equalized pvp one way or another
A CTF game could be fun, however what will you do when an immortal paladin picks up your flag and you and your buddies cant kill him - even ALL focusing him? I think some balance needs to happen there before CTF comes into play...
Arena - now THIS could be a fun system if it worked like WoWs did back in the day (might even still IDK). You create a "team", would be much like a guild but WAY smaller. Your team ques up for the arena style game. Its a deathmatch - 1 life per person. Only people in the team can que up. Team has a visible "rating" that goes up or down based on wins/losses.
I would STRONGLY suggest AGAINST a 2v2 or 3v3 as its going to be a NIGHTMARE with balance. If you make a game that focuses on smaller teams, classes will emerge as having a CLEAR advantage and then everyone will feel compelled to use that class or lose, you will see countless threads pop up about said class... dont go down that road.
In fact, a "happy medium" between the "Solo -Q and Premade -Q" systems could be to make these arena teams consist of a 5 man team, making it a "premade only".
So now, you have an "unraked" open domination - the current platform.
Then create "teams" where you can have a max of say ~15 players, that require a 5 man to group together for the Que, and this teams rank goes up or down based on win.losses.
MOST of the premades will do this "team" approach, que as a team, and want their ranking to be shown for bragging rights... While the solo Qers (or groups of players) will do the unranked Que - which is the current system.
This actually solves multiple issues
> What new PvP mode would you like to see in Neverwinter? Capture the flag? Free-for-all king of the hill? Dragon-riding baseball? Put your best ideas down here and +1 the ideas you like most.
When rogue for 1 blow kills palo-tank 2300+, when the hunter takes down 100% in miles zone and constantly keeps you in roots and just kills, you can't move, you can't attack. It is pvp?
Final score 0-100: 1000 almost in all fights. It is pvp?
Ordinary players play against specially collected group, and just stand on a fire. 5 players can't kill even 1... 1 player kills all team of the opponent. It is pvp?
Even doesn't smell of the minimum balance.
Readiness of pvp at the 70th level: 0/100
Pvp it is dead in game, absolutely. And no modes will rescue him
The following is what I and many others would love to see in game.
1) Solo pvp in world map
This means you can right click a player and choose (Battle player).
- once both players have accepted combat que, a green circle should appear with a 30 meter radius. Combat ends when a player dies or is out of the 30 meter combat circle for more than 30 seconds.
- once combat ends the combat radius circle vanishes and pvp can no longer happen until next accepted challenge.
2) team pvp in world map
This means two party leaders can click each other and choose (battle team).
- once both teams have accepted que, a 60m combat circle appears on the ground (looks like an aoe warning alert circle) and combat begins after a 30 second countdown timer.
- combat ends when all players on a single team are defeated.
3) capture the flag
- person holding the flag cannot use any encounters, attacks, tab skills, cannot be healed or buffed by team players artifacts mounts or accessories.
- person holding the flag gets 50k hp bonus
- person holding the flag gains cc immunity
- person holding the flag is shown on map radar
- person holding the flag gets defense boost of 4000
- person holding the flag cannot mount.
- once killed the flag stays on ground for 30 seconds then resets to base position.
- if you touch your own flag on ground it teleports back to your base reset point.
I guess technical problems might not prevent neither bracketing nor equalized pvp but the p2w model (as it is now) actually makes -both- options problematic. But one could try to work around those with a more complex approach - as I have tried to do in my ridiculously lengthy post.
Make it like 200zen to change between the modes.
1) when open world pvp mode is on
A. A floating skull a pears over players head to indicate mode.
B. You can pvp players for xp in this mode.
C. You can only kill players that have skulls over their heads
D. Once you have killed someone you get a red skull over your head.
C. If someone kills you in red skull mode they obtain xp and 10% of your total coins carried.
1. First and the most immportant - do not rework any existing mods - add some new, fresh and let players choose what they want to play.
2. Solo queue (as has been proposed at the beginning of the topic) - and once again - as new option big Yes but if there will be only solo queue as pvp option it doesnt make players more happy than today, thrust me - how we can force people to play with randoms instead of friends.
3. Clean match -and ofc once again - new option not rework - let players fight in true pvp match and show their skills without mounts boons, insignias, stronghold boons, overload slots, broken rings, vip account profits, potions (and some other stuff which i could forget). Why no rework at all: People grind really hard or spend interesting amount of cash and cant be forced to do not use all this things their truly deserve. Why it will be good new option: we can compare this to sport in real life when natural athlete faced to sportsman using anabolic/steroids - all know how it will end (in 98% of cases). Those days no skills need in pvp in my opinion, just stack power and arpen and one hit or in better option one combo everything and everywhere. Let players know the mechanics of their class, skills, tactic and prove they are reallygood in pvp.
4. Under 2k gear score -,- - God help me please - i know, swear i know each of us once was beginning but today players lower than 2k die from 2-3 atwill hits (in my case and i am only 3.5 gs) - they better fit to 69 level pvp than 70 - in 85% of matches one player with so low item level probably ruin the domination.
5. Remove tencaity (also has been proposed earlier) - from my point of view - NO WAY - tenacity distinguish pvp players from pve (after build ofc), ther is no hard way to get descent pvp equipment.
6. Last but not less important - PvP Ranking and rewards - Please rebuild this funny schedule in seriously and reliable RANKING which will be fairly reflects the actions of the players in PvP. Not only sorting by kills/deaths or win/lost but in overall. Add better rewards for match to encourage masses of people to participate PvP. Going forward - not only for single match but for example 10 wins in a row or 5 lost in a row (yup i am not brainless - players discourage very fast if they are lose a few times in a row. Let's show them that it's worth the effort too and keep them run PvP again and again. Monthly and annual/seasonal rewards (before ranking's reset). Top 3, top 10, top 100, top 1000 - people will feel there is some case to participate PvP like in NCL some time ago.
I truly believe this 6 changes realy contribute to much bigger balance and keep PvP mod alive.
At the end please consider is possible - in game which is 3 years old and is based on neverending grind - achive the total balance
Greeting for PvP players - Godfinder
When there were neither arenas nor BG yet. There was a remarkable zone Northern Barrens-> Crossroads in which without any rules more than 5000+ players were at war for a small piece of the earth, and believe it was very cheerful. Even the strongest player making a mistake I died instantly. And what we see here, with 4k IL + stronghold will kill any solo all team of the opponent.
It isn't interesting.