on Removing stuffs you would fix nothing, this is why "NW is constantly broken ppl call to remove things and later on they will things back... it's an endless circle of nonsense, we doing now over 3 years..
If u want to play competitive pvp as a completely new player to the Game a fresh lv70 Char, than play Mobas or BnS - korean server or games like overwatch. comparing a new player with and older Player it's just ridiculous, of course it have to be differents this an MMORPG,
to tenacity it is the "opposite of a wall and it's ignored by many skills anyway, The Problem is not tenacity , self healing or any Boons/Mounts what ever, it's simply the matchmaking itself,
if we would have 3 Different PvP Queue Options, we wouldn't have any problems, (or at least not as many as right now)
1. Beginner queue max 2k IL 2. Advanced queue max 3k IL 3. Master Queue 3k to max (just examples it can be 3,5k etc)
To fix the Abuse of IL we just need to add an auto-kick, once you enter a queue and ur "Itemlevel increase over the border" you will be automatically kicked, thats all.
To improve this queues; Trans/R12/Mythics/legendary gear need and overall a higher IL Points. +100 IL Points also Burst-DMG/Piercing-dmg need to tune down,
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
I think it would only work if there were dual spec in the game as many have suggested with this small tweak ...
The First 1 would be your pve spec The second spec would be the pvp spec that tracked your max item level for bracketing
So a player could still be in Pvp Q while doing pve stuff and not have to worry about a gear lock messing up his potential pve damage ..
also in the event that a player had no pvp gear or spec or even blank it would supply basic pvp gear and basic rank7 and basic enchants (so even if blank or a player that did nothing to gear up it would still supply something with basic tenacity and such )
I think it would only work if there were dual spec in the game as many have suggested with this small tweak ...
The First 1 would be your pve spec The second spec would be the pvp spec that tracked your max item level for bracketing
So a player could still be in Pvp Q while doing pve stuff and not have to worry about a gear lock messing up his potential pve damage ..
Now 2 spec are not necessary, PvP items is much better than PvE. PvE of a capability cause less loss than PvP and their efficiency is extremely small. Wild dependence on IL+stronghold.
@xgrandz02 also in the event that a player had no pvp gear or spec or even blank it would supply basic pvp gear and basic rank7 and basic enchants (so even if blank or a player that did nothing to gear up it would still supply something with basic tenacity and such )
"rank7 and basic enchants" are not capable to resist even minimum against 12 lvl
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
I think it would only work if there were dual spec in the game as many have suggested with this small tweak ...
The First 1 would be your pve spec The second spec would be the pvp spec that tracked your max item level for bracketing
So a player could still be in Pvp Q while doing pve stuff and not have to worry about a gear lock messing up his potential pve damage ..
Now 2 spec are not necessary, PvP items is much better than PvE. PvE of a capability cause less loss than PvP and their efficiency is extremely small. Wild dependence on IL+stronghold.
@xgrandz02 also in the event that a player had no pvp gear or spec or even blank it would supply basic pvp gear and basic rank7 and basic enchants (so even if blank or a player that did nothing to gear up it would still supply something with basic tenacity and such )
"rank7 and basic enchants" are not capable to resist even minimum against 12 lvl
You are wrong you just dont get it this is to prevent gear swapping to have a fair item level balanced match ... and still let people stay in Q
Here is why some people have grinded their pve stuff and have colored or with kits it etc and want to keep it on (they dont care if you believe That pvp items are better cause they did not grind for them ) certain stats are better on pve gear for mixing and matching ...
so while they are in Q for pvp they still have their enchants with their dragon hoard on or quartermasters or whatever and are using pve overloads and doing their pve stuff
as soon as Q pops ....
point 2 they would get an basic set of Pvp gear which would put them In the first matchmaking bracket 2k-3k for example as they upgraded it they would move up brackets cause their item level would go up... they would not be going against someone with 12s on
the 2 specs are to lock your items level and gear for pvp to have proper balanced match making and also for Pve players cant complainand rightly so) to show up with no gear at all and then they cant grind to get better gear Pvp rewards would include option for them to slowly upgrade sets or option to buy some box /or get some reward that speed up the getting of such set
The new game mode I would most like to see is an in party duel mode, where people can join a party and enter an arena where team damage is enabled and party buffs and healing are disabled, so you and your friends can practice duels or just play a crazy FFA, with no timers and no scoring other than K/D.
You are wrong you just dont get it this is to prevent gear swapping to have a fair item level balanced match ... and still let people stay in Q
Here is why some people have grinded their pve stuff and have colored or with kits it etc and want to keep it on (they dont care if you believe That pvp items are better cause they did not grind for them ) certain stats are better on pve gear for mixing and matching ...
so while they are in Q for pvp they still have their enchants with their dragon hoard on or quartermasters or whatever and are using pve overloads and doing their pve stuff
as soon as Q pops ....
point 2 they would get an basic set of Pvp gear which would put them In the first matchmaking bracket 2k-3k for example as they upgraded it they would move up brackets cause their item level would go up... they would not be going against someone with 12s on
the 2 specs are to lock your items level and gear for pvp to have proper balanced match making and also for Pve players cant complainand rightly so) to show up with no gear at all and then they cant grind to get better gear Pvp rewards would include option for them to slowly upgrade sets or option to buy some box /or get some reward that speed up the getting of such set
We likely play different games:
Collected group of the dressed players, winning constantly PvP fights dresses the new player in PvP-items and he very comfortably feels both in PvP and in PvE.
It is possible to dress quickly 130-135 blue PvE items, I only pound from them any, to run with 2k IL in the current game = to be meat. To use PvE items artifacts = for example the full catalyst is necessary, personally to me he in one and a half years has never dropped out though I constantly go on the strongest PvE of bosses.
Quantity of 5 lvl magic stones, for improvement = it in general something... how many they are necessary to make 1 of 4 artifacts? 10k? 100k?
If there are 2 spec that the place in bags won't be at all.
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
You are wrong you just dont get it this is to prevent gear swapping to have a fair item level balanced match ... and still let people stay in Q
Here is why some people have grinded their pve stuff and have colored or with kits it etc and want to keep it on (they dont care if you believe That pvp items are better cause they did not grind for them ) certain stats are better on pve gear for mixing and matching ...
so while they are in Q for pvp they still have their enchants with their dragon hoard on or quartermasters or whatever and are using pve overloads and doing their pve stuff
as soon as Q pops ....
point 2 they would get an basic set of Pvp gear which would put them In the first matchmaking bracket 2k-3k for example as they upgraded it they would move up brackets cause their item level would go up... they would not be going against someone with 12s on
the 2 specs are to lock your items level and gear for pvp to have proper balanced match making and also for Pve players cant complainand rightly so) to show up with no gear at all and then they cant grind to get better gear Pvp rewards would include option for them to slowly upgrade sets or option to buy some box /or get some reward that speed up the getting of such set
We likely play different games:
Collected group of the dressed players, winning constantly PvP fights dresses the new player in PvP-items and he very comfortably feels both in PvP and in PvE.
It is possible to dress quickly 130-135 blue PvE items, I only pound from them any, to run with 2k IL in the current game = to be meat. To use PvE items artifacts = for example the full catalyst is necessary, personally to me he in one and a half years has never dropped out though I constantly go on the strongest PvE of bosses.
Quantity of 5 lvl magic stones, for improvement = it in general something... how many they are necessary to make 1 of 4 artifacts? 10k? 100k?
If there are 2 spec that the place in bags won't be at all.
More like we speak different Languages ..You just won the award for least understandable post in this section
you would not be facing a fully dressed team or premade because of solo Queue and item level brackets
you dont seem to get it the whole point of the dual spec is the have proper matches and proper bracketing and to insure that even if someone is lazy or does nothing or does not want to even gear up or its an alt he is grinding for pvp shards for his stronghold he can still be fairly bracketed in the lowest level and not sabotage other peoples matches and not complain about balance and pay to win and blah blah
really bad google translation just delete your post please your post makes no sense in real space or time or in any dimension or in this universe or in this game
P.S the second pvp spec will have a 2nd cloned set your of artifacts or whatever you want why are we even discussing artifact refinement
P.S.S They just added extra bag space as a reward you dont want balanced pvp because you might run out of bag space ...just lol dude ...the equipment would be locked in the pvp slots and would not take any bag space or would have its own dedicated bag ...every possible pve whinny excuse not to not pvp fairly or balanced must be thought of ...
you dont seem to get it the whole point of the dual spec is the have proper matches and proper bracketing and to insure that even if someone is lazy or does nothing or does not want to even gear up or its an alt he is grinding for pvp shards for his stronghold he can still be fairly bracketed in the lowest level and not sabotage other peoples matches and not complain about balance and pay to win and blah blah
13 lvl stronghold with my participation, 100% progress in all zones (companies), except PvP (there are no fights, they are absent just). And after that... lazy = brains 0.
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
*Sigh* your waits are so long because there is no perceived balance ...regardless of platform played on xbox or pc and cause rewards for playing are not so good and because pvp some rewards are still level 60 for like forever
on Removing stuffs you would fix nothing, this is why "NW is constantly broken ppl call to remove things and later on they will things back... it's an endless circle of nonsense, we doing now over 3 years..
If u want to play competitive pvp as a completely new player to the Game a fresh lv70 Char, than play Mobas or BnS - korean server or games like overwatch. comparing a new player with and older Player it's just ridiculous, of course it have to be differents this an MMORPG,
to tenacity it is the "opposite of a wall and it's ignored by many skills anyway, The Problem is not tenacity , self healing or any Boons/Mounts what ever, it's simply the matchmaking itself,
if we would have 3 Different PvP Queue Options, we wouldn't have any problems, (or at least not as many as right now)
1. Beginner queue max 2k IL 2. Advanced queue max 3k IL 3. Master Queue 3k to max (just examples it can be 3,5k etc)
To fix the Abuse of IL we just need to add an auto-kick, once you enter a queue and ur "Itemlevel increase over the border" you will be automatically kicked, thats all.
To improve this queues; Trans/R12/Mythics/legendary gear need and overall a higher IL Points. +100 IL Points also Burst-DMG/Piercing-dmg need to tune down,
"pl call to remove things and later on they will things back... "
- See the problem isnt REMOVING things, the issue is them bringing them back. Like they removed self healing or atleast cut it down TO bring out tenacity. But then they brought MORE self healing back in the form of items... THAT is the issue. They "fix" OP items - like Emblem... but then release even MORE OP items that later need fixing. Thus the constant cycle. This is why we need to go to a minimalist PVP experience where power creep cannot come in and destroy balance. By removing boons you create massive impact to the PVP game where so many things cause balance issues - like Endless consumption ALONE doubles your lifesteal... Which is why DPS classes can self heal so much. Not just that, but how many % of lifesteal can you get from it too? How much crit severity bonuses... healing boons.... etc etc.
"tenacity it is the "opposite of a wall and it's ignored by many skills anyway, The Problem is not tenacity , self healing or any Boons/Mounts what ever, it's simply the matchmaking itself,"
- False. The game has become NOT fun due to all these mechanics. Back in module 2-3 I remember having a TWO hour match. You could argue this was "incredibly balanced" since both teams were able to abuse things to make themselves OP. My point is, just because matchmaking would "match 2 OP teams" doesnt mean we shouldnt address what makes them OP in the first place. Also this does nothing to address the lack of population and in fact only SPLITs the population further. If you want more people to play, you need to create a smaller gear gap so that you have a larger VIABLE opponent base in which to match people. Right now, the fact that 1 BIS player could take on an entire TEAM of new 70s, shows you just how far the gear gap goes... I dont recall being able to do that in previous modules as easily as you can now... The gear gap was smaller, meaning larger population, meaning faster ques and more fun for ALL types of players. Not to mention there are SEVERAL issues with trying to make this "item level bracketing" as you outline.
1) Players trying to "twink". You will have guys that find the BEST min/max of an item bracket, abusing things that create massive power influxes AND boons. Even if you try and find some "system" to boost item level, there are going to be BIG impacts (like trans negation and trans fey) compared to other enchants. So a player can "twink" themselves for that bracket to create imbalance and the OTHER issue is then you now limit players from being able to do PVE while in PVP Q because they want to play with friends, or quest or anything...
2) You now have to spend a TON of time assigning "fair" item level adjustments to EVERYTHING. This is a ton of work and will create more balance issues as they will certainly FAIL at taking everything into account.
3) Auto-kick only punishes the players team, imagine quing into a match and then having 2 players get auto-kicked for clicking a wrong item... you might as well not leave spawn.
No, I think the BEST solution that I keep coming back to, is to remove ALL the boons from domination to create a more simple balance and Que system. I do think creating a "high water mark" on item level - that is tracked and maybe even part of your character Bio page, to use that for matchmaking would be the best way to do this.
You lessen the gear gap AND allow players to use anything they want in PVE while Qued and create better games for ALL without reducing the population. The issue is gear gap. nothing else.
If gear gap was MUCH smaller people wouldnt complain as much about mis-matched games because with reasonable coordination, 2 guys could nuke down some BIS dude and take a node. Currently though, the BIS guy GLANCES in their direction and kills them... The power gap is too large right now... Its honestly ALMOST like having a "Que" in which players 11-69 ALL are put together under 1 que and boosted up to 69... The lvl 11 guys would just get DUMPED on because the power gap is too strong.... Thats how large the gap has become at 70... Itemlevel isnt reliable enough to do the job of balance.... They need to adjust pvp power creep down to make the game fun again.
You are wrong you just dont get it this is to prevent gear swapping to have a fair item level balanced match ... and still let people stay in Q
Here is why some people have grinded their pve stuff and have colored or with kits it etc and want to keep it on (they dont care if you believe That pvp items are better cause they did not grind for them ) certain stats are better on pve gear for mixing and matching ...
so while they are in Q for pvp they still have their enchants with their dragon hoard on or quartermasters or whatever and are using pve overloads and doing their pve stuff
as soon as Q pops ....
point 2 they would get an basic set of Pvp gear which would put them In the first matchmaking bracket 2k-3k for example as they upgraded it they would move up brackets cause their item level would go up... they would not be going against someone with 12s on
the 2 specs are to lock your items level and gear for pvp to have proper balanced match making and also for Pve players cant complainand rightly so) to show up with no gear at all and then they cant grind to get better gear Pvp rewards would include option for them to slowly upgrade sets or option to buy some box /or get some reward that speed up the getting of such set
We likely play different games:
Collected group of the dressed players, winning constantly PvP fights dresses the new player in PvP-items and he very comfortably feels both in PvP and in PvE.
It is possible to dress quickly 130-135 blue PvE items, I only pound from them any, to run with 2k IL in the current game = to be meat. To use PvE items artifacts = for example the full catalyst is necessary, personally to me he in one and a half years has never dropped out though I constantly go on the strongest PvE of bosses.
Quantity of 5 lvl magic stones, for improvement = it in general something... how many they are necessary to make 1 of 4 artifacts? 10k? 100k?
If there are 2 spec that the place in bags won't be at all.
More like we speak different Languages ..You just won the award for least understandable post in this section
you would not be facing a fully dressed team or premade because of solo Queue and item level brackets
you dont seem to get it the whole point of the dual spec is the have proper matches and proper bracketing and to insure that even if someone is lazy or does nothing or does not want to even gear up or its an alt he is grinding for pvp shards for his stronghold he can still be fairly bracketed in the lowest level and not sabotage other peoples matches and not complain about balance and pay to win and blah blah
really bad google translation just delete your post please your post makes no sense in real space or time or in any dimension or in this universe or in this game
P.S the second pvp spec will have a 2nd cloned set your of artifacts or whatever you want why are we even discussing artifact refinement
P.S.S They just added extra bag space as a reward you dont want balanced pvp because you might run out of bag space ...just lol dude ...the equipment would be locked in the pvp slots and would not take any bag space or would have its own dedicated bag ...every possible pve whinny excuse not to not pvp fairly or balanced must be thought of ...
See I think the "PVP" spec and dual spec idea could easily accomplish the "minimalistic" PVP approach.
You "bring over" onto your PVP tab whatever gear you want in select items... You can remove secondary artifacts. It could NOT include boons, etc etc. So you have a "PVP tab" that is THE character that is ported over into PVP. It shows all your base stats, and can be very minimalistic. IMO this is a great way to do this approach. +1 to this idea.
Sounds like the solo queue option is pretty popular. I wanted to ask a few questions. THIS IS NOT A PROMISE OF ANYTHING. It’s just me asking some questions.
If we had a Domination solo queue, 1) Should it allow two people to queue together also (“duo queue”)? Or should it be strictly solo? 2) Is everyone OK with 3 and 4 person groups (and maybe 2 person, depending on your answer to #1) not being able to queue for Domination? I ask the second question because if one queue is solo, then the other queue pretty much has to be 5-person (if you had a 4-person group in that queue, where would you find a 5th? no solo person will want to be in the premade queue!). This is a price I’d be willing to pay (I solo queue for Domination a lot on live, so I am totally feeling everyone’s pain!), but I wanted to see what other people thought.
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torontodaveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 992Arc User
what about the 5v5 premade from a queue group?
what about the 10v10 premade (gg/sh siege) from a queue group? =D
strictly solo queue.. duo queues would just solo hit 'queue' at the same time and hope for the best. if you're against each other, just adds friendly fun. ;D
a 4person pvp group would have no trouble finding a 5th.. lfg or alliance chat. =D
no solo person wants to be in teh premade queue.
NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
I would prefer that Duo queue was allowed. PvP is a very social thing and limiting it to only be able to queue with other randoms would really suck. I don't pvp a lot but when i do I much prefer to be able to have a friend with me who I know i can depend on. This also spills over to helping new/inexperienced players learn. Taking them into a full premade is not a good situation to learn anything since a mistake will cost you the match, but a duo match is generally much more forgiving.
being forced to try and sync solo queue with someone just so you can play with them sucks a lot of fun out of even the idea of pvping. It is why there has always been a large amount of support for a way to do specific pre vs specific pre. timing queue pops sucks
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Sounds like the solo queue option is pretty popular. I wanted to ask a few questions. THIS IS NOT A PROMISE OF ANYTHING. It’s just me asking some questions.
If we had a Domination solo queue, 1) Should it allow two people to queue together also (“duo queue”)? Or should it be strictly solo? 2) Is everyone OK with 3 and 4 person groups (and maybe 2 person, depending on your answer to #1) not being able to queue for Domination? I ask the second question because if one queue is solo, then the other queue pretty much has to be 5-person (if you had a 4-person group in that queue, where would you find a 5th? no solo person will want to be in the premade queue!). This is a price I’d be willing to pay (I solo queue for Domination a lot on live, so I am totally feeling everyone’s pain!), but I wanted to see what other people thought.
Thanks for reading this thread and taking the time to post. I think the Solo Q option COULD be a major boost to morale but IMO still wouldnt solve the issues.
That said. I think the BEST way to implement this would frankly be to keep it as Solo Only. AS much as I want to allow things like Duo Que, the power of two people talking is HUGE over noone talking. Not to mention you can create "troll comps" with just two people. I really hate the idea of restricting PVP to this... Because I think itll only hurt que times and population since most people want to que up together and play socially with friends. Not sit in a que by themselves waiting for it to pop to play by themselves but I just dont know how feasible it is to bring life back to PVP if you dont focus on balancing PVP matches - which means solo Q only then a full premade 5 man Que only.
I think this Solo Q option will ONLY work if you allow players to group up with friends for HEs/PVE stuff and still allow them to solo Q. So they could party with people, when the Solo Q pops, they join the Domination match and it removes them from the party. This allows people to still be social AND creates better balance in Domination.
I think once you do this Solo/Premade Que system the BEST thing to drive participation is to bring BACK the leaderboards HOWEVER DO NOT show kills/deaths on the LB, merely show wins/losses on the LB and have a leaderboard for both the Solo Q and the Premade Q section.
This will get TONS of people back into the game and playing again, both in solo Q and in premades and literally breath the pvp back to life in this game.
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
solo que-q and 5man-q only makes sense, especially if coupled with working leaderboards and ncl for each. If you had to pick 1 for ncl, pick 5-man. Solo-q for 'pick-up games', 5-man for ranked games.
Sounds like the solo queue option is pretty popular. I wanted to ask a few questions. THIS IS NOT A PROMISE OF ANYTHING. It’s just me asking some questions.
If we had a Domination solo queue, 1) Should it allow two people to queue together also (“duo queue”)? Or should it be strictly solo? 2) Is everyone OK with 3 and 4 person groups (and maybe 2 person, depending on your answer to #1) not being able to queue for Domination? I ask the second question because if one queue is solo, then the other queue pretty much has to be 5-person (if you had a 4-person group in that queue, where would you find a 5th? no solo person will want to be in the premade queue!). This is a price I’d be willing to pay (I solo queue for Domination a lot on live, so I am totally feeling everyone’s pain!), but I wanted to see what other people thought.
Wouldnt it be better the other way around? A premade Q? If you have 5 players and wants to go up against 5 other players in a premade then you have a seperate Q for that? Also a way to organize a match against a specific 5 man group (premade match/inhouses). This should also work in GG/SHPvP.
The other day we had 40 players from the alliance wanting to do 20vs20 and we spent like an hour getting the two teams and then Q, but we never got matched against eachother.... Its HAMSTER.
Anyway, if you dont Q up as 5, then you should be in the "mixed" Q were duo, trio, solo is allowed. I think a forced strict solo Q is gonna hurt the game. I want to be able to play with my friends even if we dont have a full 5 man group. Playing alone is the worst according to me. Its a teamplay based game.
And for god sake add base tenacity or add tencaity gear that can be bought without glory. Forcing players to play X matches to get glory before they can even get tenacity gear is also HAMSTER. Also make it match better against ItemLevel. To often BiS players are forced to play with players with really low gear and no tenacity. Whats the point of that?..
"Obviously there is a problem with pvp balance" Here is a way you could still keep making money, and give players something to shoot for and bragging rights.
Survival PvP One champion who thinks he's got what it takes to take on an entire team single-handed. Allow for a title list for those who excel in this mode as well as extra rewards to that of regular pvp.
Every Man For Himself One or two specific maps that start players off at opposite sides of a gladiator type arena. Last man standing wins.
Costume Party PvP No gear (with an exception to character base weapon allowed) Costumes are a must and will market outfits more as well as bringing in those who want balanced pvp.
@rgutscheradev you made very valid points regarding potential queue changes.
1) Solo queue should definitely be an OPTION for all interested in playing PvP. If the solo queue doesn't pop, the solo queuer makes the choice either to not join a PvP match OR alter their queue preferences.
2) Design a simple checkbox queue preference as seen with our current queue system for solo queuers. For example: [ ] Solo only. [ ] No more than two per group [ ] Any group composition
This way, you satisfy the potential group makeups of:
1+1+1+1+1 (solo only) 2+1+1+1 (no more than two) 2+2+1 (no more than two) 3+1+1 (any) 3+2 (any) 4+1 (any) 5 (any)
If you want to take this a step further, which I will admit will be difficult, you could also create a checkbox to attempt matchmaking balance based on your own internal algorithm. Realistically, the only way that makes sense is to develop an algorithm that considers a player's (or group of players') recent Win/Loss ratio, their Kill/Death ratio (perhaps factor in assists and score), and the relative strength of their previous opponent(s). Factoring ilvl, gear, or tenacity scores will be a disaster as they are all intrinsically poor estimators of skill or balance.
to @d4rkh0rs3 if more then half are premade, its peamde
they don't want to to do it for some reason. i guess they try to do it by score. i am not sure if they give up but it dosnt work good for some time score get reset evey 2 weeks sometimes
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited June 2016
For people that want to play with friends and not solo Q and not premade Q offer Gauntlegrym map or the icewind dale maps for this mode anything goes free for all mode or rotate the maps to offer different Q able modes every week or featured map or mode during pvp hour to make it fair to people that want experience different mode types on different maps
Just make the maps that you guys worked so hard on in icewind dale to be Q able come on guys or at least the timer to be accurate to announce on the server that the Pvp event will pop there is currently no way of knowing when black ice dom will start ..what a waste ... 2 perfectly good maps for 10 v 10 or 20 v 20 just wasted : (
why are you guys makin it more complicated and we will end up having another **** que for ages, i already said what are the best choices so please bump this idea. 1. -There should be a que for solo and duo que , incase you want to take a friend with you.
2. -There needs to be a que for 5vs5 , where a group of 5 players will que and face a random group of 5 players.
* AND in the same que there needs to be a LOBBY in which you get a total of 10 players in it = 2 groups and que for a insta pop , this will also aleviate the waiting in que that we have to wait normally, this will also open up ways of promoting fair play, if we get this que we can organize even tournaments, it also helps every guild out there even players that are groups made of 2.000 item level and want to que against another group of 2.000 item level they can use the LOBBY system.
@plavia yes, you are correct--a team with 3+ group members would fall into the "any group composition" category.
Edit: The PvP scores being reset every two weeks is actually beneficial in my example as it returns all players to a starting point. Sure, at the beginning of the reset week you could get matched up against seal clubbers, but as the number of matches progress and individuals or groups become more successful, there is less chance you will get matched up against them if things aren't going well for you. If very few people are queueing for PvP, however, the odds of you getting an "undesirable" matchup increases.
@metalldjt I like your idea of a "private" PvP queue for 5v5 premade vs premade. Even a 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 could be done this way. Devil's advocate if this system were to be implemented: NO REWARDS for glory, kills, assists, campaign goals, etc. as this would be an easy way to exploit the game by farming.
why are you guys makin it more complicated and we will end up having another **** que for ages, i already said what are the best choices so please bump this idea. 1. -There should be a que for solo and duo que , incase you want to take a friend with you.
2. -There needs to be a que for 5vs5 , where a group of 5 players will que and face a random group of 5 players.
* AND in the same que there needs to be a LOBBY in which you get a total of 10 players in it = 2 groups and que for a insta pop , this will also aleviate the waiting in que that we have to wait normally, this will also open up ways of promoting fair play, if we get this que we can organize even tournaments, it also helps every guild out there even players that are groups made of 2.000 item level and want to que against another group of 2.000 item level they can use the LOBBY system.
For people that want to play with friends and not solo Q and not premade Q offer Gauntlegrym map or the icewind dale maps for this mode anything goes free for all mode or rotate the maps to offer different Q able modes every week
in every game out there, the both ques are togheter, solo and duo... it is stupid to have just solo que.
dota, league, smite , paragons, cs go etc.
Im just worried there are too many maps and too many Q types until the population grows again ..
why are you guys makin it more complicated and we will end up having another **** que for ages, i already said what are the best choices so please bump this idea. 1. -There should be a que for solo and duo que , incase you want to take a friend with you.
2. -There needs to be a que for 5vs5 , where a group of 5 players will que and face a random group of 5 players.
* AND in the same que there needs to be a LOBBY in which you get a total of 10 players in it = 2 groups and que for a insta pop , this will also aleviate the waiting in que that we have to wait normally, this will also open up ways of promoting fair play, if we get this que we can organize even tournaments, it also helps every guild out there even players that are groups made of 2.000 item level and want to que against another group of 2.000 item level they can use the LOBBY system.
should look like this
i totally agree with that, we want it now !!!
0
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
To me, splitting the queues is like putting a Band-Aid on a gushing head wound. It will not solve the issues at hand. There is nothing to stop BIS players from living in solo/duo queue forever, ruining every match. Some kind of equalization scaling or matchmaking is what we need.
I normally dont agree with everything you say but this time I do If I solo Q (which I mostly did for many mods in a row) Top leader board position for kills I will Control The whole match ...and destroy everyone like I did for many mods in a row *boring*
not Only that with solo Q there is still a chance you get a guildy / friend on your team or on the opposite team that can throw the match no one bothered to mention this I had been saving that point...
Solo Q is no defense against super Elite players only item level or bracketing is or bare bones Pvp is or a lobby system
Comments
on Removing stuffs you would fix nothing,
this is why "NW is constantly broken ppl call to remove things and later on they will things back...
it's an endless circle of nonsense, we doing now over 3 years..
If u want to play competitive pvp as a completely new player to the Game a fresh lv70 Char,
than play Mobas or BnS - korean server or games like overwatch.
comparing a new player with and older Player it's just ridiculous,
of course it have to be differents this an MMORPG,
to tenacity it is the "opposite of a wall and it's ignored by many skills anyway,
The Problem is not tenacity , self healing or any Boons/Mounts what ever,
it's simply the matchmaking itself,
if we would have 3 Different PvP Queue Options,
we wouldn't have any problems, (or at least not as many as right now)
1. Beginner queue max 2k IL
2. Advanced queue max 3k IL
3. Master Queue 3k to max
(just examples it can be 3,5k etc)
To fix the Abuse of IL we just need to add an auto-kick,
once you enter a queue and ur "Itemlevel increase over the border"
you will be automatically kicked, thats all.
To improve this queues; Trans/R12/Mythics/legendary gear need and overall a higher IL Points. +100 IL Points
also Burst-DMG/Piercing-dmg need to tune down,
I think it would only work if there were dual spec in the game as many have suggested with this small tweak ...
The First 1 would be your pve spec
The second spec would be the pvp spec that tracked your max item level for bracketing
So a player could still be in Pvp Q while doing pve stuff and not have to worry about a gear lock messing up his potential pve damage ..
also in the event that a player had no pvp gear or spec or even blank it would supply basic pvp gear and basic rank7 and basic enchants (so even if blank or a player that did nothing to gear up it would still supply something with basic tenacity and such )
and still let people stay in Q
Here is why some people have grinded their pve stuff and have colored or with kits it etc and want to keep it on
(they dont care if you believe That pvp items are better cause they did not grind for them ) certain stats are better on pve gear for mixing and matching ...
so while they are in Q for pvp they still have their enchants with their dragon hoard on or quartermasters or whatever
and are using pve overloads and doing their pve stuff
as soon as Q pops ....
point 2 they would get an basic set of Pvp gear which would put them In the first matchmaking bracket 2k-3k for example
as they upgraded it they would move up brackets cause their item level would go up... they would not be going against someone with 12s on
the 2 specs are to lock your items level and gear for pvp to have proper balanced match making
and also for Pve players cant complainand rightly so) to show up with no gear at all and then they cant grind to get better gear
Pvp rewards would include option for them to slowly upgrade sets or option to buy some box /or get some reward that speed up the getting of such set
Collected group of the dressed players, winning constantly PvP fights dresses the new player in PvP-items and he very comfortably feels both in PvP and in PvE.
It is possible to dress quickly 130-135 blue PvE items, I only pound from them any, to run with 2k IL in the current game = to be meat. To use PvE items artifacts = for example the full catalyst is necessary, personally to me he in one and a half years has never dropped out though I constantly go on the strongest PvE of bosses.
Quantity of 5 lvl magic stones, for improvement = it in general something... how many they are necessary to make 1 of 4 artifacts? 10k? 100k?
If there are 2 spec that the place in bags won't be at all.
you would not be facing a fully dressed team or premade because of solo Queue and item level brackets
you dont seem to get it the whole point of the dual spec is the have proper matches and proper bracketing and to insure that even if someone is lazy or does nothing or does not want to even gear up or its an alt he is grinding for pvp shards for his stronghold he can still be fairly bracketed in the lowest level and not sabotage other peoples matches and not complain about balance and pay to win and blah blah
really bad google translation just delete your post please your post makes no sense in real space or time or in any dimension or in this universe or in this game
P.S the second pvp spec will have a 2nd cloned set your of artifacts or whatever you want why are we even discussing artifact refinement
P.S.S They just added extra bag space as a reward you dont want balanced pvp because you might run out of bag space ...just lol dude ...the equipment would be locked in the pvp slots and would not take any bag space or would have its own dedicated bag ...every possible pve whinny excuse not to not pvp fairly or balanced must be thought of ...
and cause rewards for playing are not so good and because pvp some rewards are still level 60 for like forever
"pl call to remove things and later on they will things back... "
- See the problem isnt REMOVING things, the issue is them bringing them back. Like they removed self healing or atleast cut it down TO bring out tenacity. But then they brought MORE self healing back in the form of items... THAT is the issue. They "fix" OP items - like Emblem... but then release even MORE OP items that later need fixing. Thus the constant cycle. This is why we need to go to a minimalist PVP experience where power creep cannot come in and destroy balance. By removing boons you create massive impact to the PVP game where so many things cause balance issues - like Endless consumption ALONE doubles your lifesteal... Which is why DPS classes can self heal so much. Not just that, but how many % of lifesteal can you get from it too? How much crit severity bonuses... healing boons.... etc etc.
"tenacity it is the "opposite of a wall and it's ignored by many skills anyway,
The Problem is not tenacity , self healing or any Boons/Mounts what ever,
it's simply the matchmaking itself,"
- False. The game has become NOT fun due to all these mechanics. Back in module 2-3 I remember having a TWO hour match. You could argue this was "incredibly balanced" since both teams were able to abuse things to make themselves OP. My point is, just because matchmaking would "match 2 OP teams" doesnt mean we shouldnt address what makes them OP in the first place. Also this does nothing to address the lack of population and in fact only SPLITs the population further. If you want more people to play, you need to create a smaller gear gap so that you have a larger VIABLE opponent base in which to match people. Right now, the fact that 1 BIS player could take on an entire TEAM of new 70s, shows you just how far the gear gap goes... I dont recall being able to do that in previous modules as easily as you can now... The gear gap was smaller, meaning larger population, meaning faster ques and more fun for ALL types of players. Not to mention there are SEVERAL issues with trying to make this "item level bracketing" as you outline.
1) Players trying to "twink". You will have guys that find the BEST min/max of an item bracket, abusing things that create massive power influxes AND boons. Even if you try and find some "system" to boost item level, there are going to be BIG impacts (like trans negation and trans fey) compared to other enchants. So a player can "twink" themselves for that bracket to create imbalance and the OTHER issue is then you now limit players from being able to do PVE while in PVP Q because they want to play with friends, or quest or anything...
2) You now have to spend a TON of time assigning "fair" item level adjustments to EVERYTHING. This is a ton of work and will create more balance issues as they will certainly FAIL at taking everything into account.
3) Auto-kick only punishes the players team, imagine quing into a match and then having 2 players get auto-kicked for clicking a wrong item... you might as well not leave spawn.
No, I think the BEST solution that I keep coming back to, is to remove ALL the boons from domination to create a more simple balance and Que system. I do think creating a "high water mark" on item level - that is tracked and maybe even part of your character Bio page, to use that for matchmaking would be the best way to do this.
You lessen the gear gap AND allow players to use anything they want in PVE while Qued and create better games for ALL without reducing the population. The issue is gear gap. nothing else.
If gear gap was MUCH smaller people wouldnt complain as much about mis-matched games because with reasonable coordination, 2 guys could nuke down some BIS dude and take a node. Currently though, the BIS guy GLANCES in their direction and kills them... The power gap is too large right now... Its honestly ALMOST like having a "Que" in which players 11-69 ALL are put together under 1 que and boosted up to 69... The lvl 11 guys would just get DUMPED on because the power gap is too strong.... Thats how large the gap has become at 70... Itemlevel isnt reliable enough to do the job of balance.... They need to adjust pvp power creep down to make the game fun again.
You "bring over" onto your PVP tab whatever gear you want in select items... You can remove secondary artifacts. It could NOT include boons, etc etc. So you have a "PVP tab" that is THE character that is ported over into PVP. It shows all your base stats, and can be very minimalistic. IMO this is a great way to do this approach. +1 to this idea.
Best of 3 to win, at least 2 maps.
Sounds like the solo queue option is pretty popular. I wanted to ask a few questions. THIS IS NOT A PROMISE OF ANYTHING. It’s just me asking some questions.
If we had a Domination solo queue,
1) Should it allow two people to queue together also (“duo queue”)? Or should it be strictly solo?
2) Is everyone OK with 3 and 4 person groups (and maybe 2 person, depending on your answer to #1) not being able to queue for Domination?
I ask the second question because if one queue is solo, then the other queue pretty much has to be 5-person (if you had a 4-person group in that queue, where would you find a 5th? no solo person will want to be in the premade queue!). This is a price I’d be willing to pay (I solo queue for Domination a lot on live, so I am totally feeling everyone’s pain!), but I wanted to see what other people thought.
what about the 10v10 premade (gg/sh siege) from a queue group? =D
strictly solo queue.. duo queues would just solo hit 'queue' at the same time and hope for the best. if you're against each other, just adds friendly fun. ;D
a 4person pvp group would have no trouble finding a 5th.. lfg or alliance chat. =D
no solo person wants to be in teh premade queue.
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
being forced to try and sync solo queue with someone just so you can play with them sucks a lot of fun out of even the idea of pvping. It is why there has always been a large amount of support for a way to do specific pre vs specific pre. timing queue pops sucks
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
That said. I think the BEST way to implement this would frankly be to keep it as Solo Only. AS much as I want to allow things like Duo Que, the power of two people talking is HUGE over noone talking. Not to mention you can create "troll comps" with just two people. I really hate the idea of restricting PVP to this... Because I think itll only hurt que times and population since most people want to que up together and play socially with friends. Not sit in a que by themselves waiting for it to pop to play by themselves but I just dont know how feasible it is to bring life back to PVP if you dont focus on balancing PVP matches - which means solo Q only then a full premade 5 man Que only.
I think this Solo Q option will ONLY work if you allow players to group up with friends for HEs/PVE stuff and still allow them to solo Q. So they could party with people, when the Solo Q pops, they join the Domination match and it removes them from the party. This allows people to still be social AND creates better balance in Domination.
I think once you do this Solo/Premade Que system the BEST thing to drive participation is to bring BACK the leaderboards HOWEVER DO NOT show kills/deaths on the LB, merely show wins/losses on the LB and have a leaderboard for both the Solo Q and the Premade Q section.
This will get TONS of people back into the game and playing again, both in solo Q and in premades and literally breath the pvp back to life in this game.
Iyon the Dark
The other day we had 40 players from the alliance wanting to do 20vs20 and we spent like an hour getting the two teams and then Q, but we never got matched against eachother.... Its HAMSTER.
Anyway, if you dont Q up as 5, then you should be in the "mixed" Q were duo, trio, solo is allowed. I think a forced strict solo Q is gonna hurt the game. I want to be able to play with my friends even if we dont have a full 5 man group. Playing alone is the worst according to me. Its a teamplay based game.
And for god sake add base tenacity or add tencaity gear that can be bought without glory. Forcing players to play X matches to get glory before they can even get tenacity gear is also HAMSTER. Also make it match better against ItemLevel. To often BiS players are forced to play with players with really low gear and no tenacity. Whats the point of that?..
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
Survival PvP
One champion who thinks he's got what it takes to take on an entire team single-handed. Allow for a title list for those who excel in this mode as well as extra rewards to that of regular pvp.
Every Man For Himself
One or two specific maps that start players off at opposite sides of a gladiator type arena. Last man standing wins.
Costume Party PvP
No gear (with an exception to character base weapon allowed) Costumes are a must and will market outfits more as well as bringing in those who want balanced pvp.
1) Solo queue should definitely be an OPTION for all interested in playing PvP. If the solo queue doesn't pop, the solo queuer makes the choice either to not join a PvP match OR alter their queue preferences.
2) Design a simple checkbox queue preference as seen with our current queue system for solo queuers. For example:
[ ] Solo only.
[ ] No more than two per group
[ ] Any group composition
This way, you satisfy the potential group makeups of:
1+1+1+1+1 (solo only)
2+1+1+1 (no more than two)
2+2+1 (no more than two)
3+1+1 (any)
3+2 (any)
4+1 (any)
5 (any)
If you want to take this a step further, which I will admit will be difficult, you could also create a checkbox to attempt matchmaking balance based on your own internal algorithm. Realistically, the only way that makes sense is to develop an algorithm that considers a player's (or group of players') recent Win/Loss ratio, their Kill/Death ratio (perhaps factor in assists and score), and the relative strength of their previous opponent(s). Factoring ilvl, gear, or tenacity scores will be a disaster as they are all intrinsically poor estimators of skill or balance.
if more then half are premade, its peamde
they don't want to to do it for some reason. i guess they try to do it by score.
i am not sure if they give up but it dosnt work good for some time
score get reset evey 2 weeks sometimes
offer Gauntlegrym map or the icewind dale maps for this mode anything goes free for all mode
or rotate the maps to offer different Q able modes every week or featured map or mode during pvp hour to make
it fair to people that want experience different mode types on different maps
Just make the maps that you guys worked so hard on in icewind dale to be Q able come on guys
or at least the timer to be accurate to announce on the server that the Pvp event will pop
there is currently no way of knowing when black ice dom will start ..what a waste ... 2 perfectly good maps
for 10 v 10 or 20 v 20 just wasted : (
Edit: The PvP scores being reset every two weeks is actually beneficial in my example as it returns all players to a starting point. Sure, at the beginning of the reset week you could get matched up against seal clubbers, but as the number of matches progress and individuals or groups become more successful, there is less chance you will get matched up against them if things aren't going well for you. If very few people are queueing for PvP, however, the odds of you getting an "undesirable" matchup increases.
@metalldjt I like your idea of a "private" PvP queue for 5v5 premade vs premade. Even a 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 could be done this way. Devil's advocate if this system were to be implemented: NO REWARDS for glory, kills, assists, campaign goals, etc. as this would be an easy way to exploit the game by farming.
+1 hell yeah
Fix pvp pls
I've always been surprised that particularly the lobby mechanic wasn't ported over from STO at the beginning.
I normally dont agree with everything you say but this time I do
If I solo Q (which I mostly did for many mods in a row) Top leader board position for kills
I will Control The whole match ...and destroy everyone like I did for many mods in a row *boring*
not Only that with solo Q there is still a chance you get a guildy / friend on your team or on the opposite team that can throw the match no one bothered to mention this I had been saving that point...
Solo Q is no defense against super Elite players only item level or bracketing is or bare bones Pvp is
or a lobby system