Yes the virtuous hots are still broken, and yes hastening light still does exactly nothing either on it's own or with the off hand bonus. Also cleanse is still in it's sorry duct tape fix shape despite reassurances back when they broke it would be looked at the next time DCs got a pass over. Seeing as all they got was a nerf notice tacked on to a pally issue I guess it's safe to assume that pass over will not come anytime soon.
Oh and also since AP gain is the issue of the day Chains of Blasing Light and Searing Light still give AP in their divine forms.
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aesculaepiusMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 69Arc User
Speaking from a completely neutral standpoint - and as a Permabubbledin player myself - I agree that it had to be nerfed. Completing entire T2 Dungeons with no one getting scratched was a problem. How is that a challenge at all?
Not sure about everyone else, but I want to feel like I'm being challenged in a game where the success of a Dungeon or Raid isn't completely hinged on a single class' ability to nullify all damage at all times. Each class should do what they're good at and each player behind the class should learn what makes them useful in the party - not just stand there and spam powers due to invulnerability. Permabubble needed to go to bring challenge back into the game.
Strummy, I agree with your sentiment, but disagree with your conclusion. Since you have the challenging duty of being the community liaison, I don't envy you this task. Taken in a vacuum, this change wouldn't be all that dire. However, as others have noted, this is a pattern. We, as players, invest a lot of time (and in some cases, money) in building up our characters. We ask for bug fixes and get new content, while the bugs remain. Then, just as soon as we get a character to a place where we can play the game again, the world is upended. As a DC, I've been baffled by the fact that I can't heal as fast as a potion. I couldn't do it with the full Sharandar set, and the Heal spell from D&D was basically converted to the daily Lay on Hands for a Paladin. DCs are some of the worst healers in the game, and nobody asked for them to be in a party. Why would they, when damage is minimal, healing is below that of a potion, and we can't even do anything special. Hell, we're the only clerics in D&D who can't even turn undead! Some people have invested a ton of time and money into making "Tank DCs." They do this to prove a point - that enough money will make any character a quasi-tank - but most of us don't have that kind of time/money to invest.
We're encouraged to have up to 5 characters for free - so we have to either work on one character as our focus, or spend hours most of us don't have trying to level the characters' gear so we don't become so underpowered that we can't survive the content and/or people don't want us in their parties because we're being hauled along. Swapping GS with IL only changed what people ask for in the queues. IL is nearing 3K for demands for most PUGs.
Then there's the whole damage increase from enemies at level 70. I used to be able to solo "Need for Mead" on even my weak SW. Now the only one who can solo it is my OP, with his bubble up. It takes forever given his lack of DPS, but at least he can finish it. My CW, DC, SW, and TR all die. I've used respect tokens on all of them following various builds on the forums, but nothing I do makes even that content possible. Even now, I routinely get one-shot on every character but my OP.
When I first rolled my OP, I had no idea what different dailies would be. Once I saw the bubble in action, I realized why people didn't want me in their parties, and I had to respect so that I had it. And I had to swap my DC so he had Gift of Haste, because people (still) didn't want a healer who was less effective than their potions and couldn't keep them alive.
The problem that Cryptic seems to have is that it doesn't balance content for those of us who are still trying to level our gear. Not all of my characters have attained purple artifact gear yet, because - again - it's hard to get people to bring along a warlock who's leveling his gear and risks success of the run. It is maddening to run Tiamat (when enough people decide to queue up) and fail because there isn't enough DPS. I will grant you that it's just as maddening that four people pretty much do all of the DPS in a win run, but again, the balance is missing. Why do so many people use Sigil of the Devoted? Because AP leads to dailies, and dailies are how PCs stay alive. I try to run ToS without a bubble paladin and those phase spiders take out the whole team within seconds. That's not fun. It's not challenging. It's maddening.
I spent months building up my Sharandar set on my DC. It was hard to do, and the benefits of it made me as desired as a DC ever was for healing. Then you upped the levels, and my set became less effective than green gear at 61. Blue gear at 62 was more effective than what I had spent months grinding to achieve, and it could be had for less than 500 AD per piece on the AH. When I leveled my paladin, every time I hit a new level range I just hit up the AH for blue gear. Why bother with seals at all? Who cares about quest gear? Someone's found stuff I can use right away and the game is so flooded with it I can buy it and do better than surviving.
I waited, and I waited, letting my Sharandar gear sit taking up my bank space, for some way to "upgrade" it or trade it in for some new set. I finally sacrificed it to the salvage altar during the last Double AD event, because it was clear to me that I was never going to get any kind of recognition for the time I spent getting that gear.
Then you introduced the ultimate in pay-to-win: VIP. I signed up like almost everyone else did, too. Only two of my characters had the full Lathander set, and since traps suddenly became extremely deadly, it was the only way to be safe. Except that I ground for three months (seems to be a magic number) before I got my first two Eyes. Two more months of grinding never yielded a third, and I finally gave up. But, I did give up two months of my life to get the first two Eyes. And players gain the set bonus for $8.50 a month: no farming, no leveling of gauntlets, and no grinding required.
So you bring in the OP class. It's been missing since launch (along with a druid) but, like all new classes, it is dramatically overpowered. The Oath of Protection made it the OP OP OP. But while it felt like a cheat, I wasn't dying, and with an AP DC, I was able to keep the party alive. People thanked me at the end of a dungeon run. I didn't have to spend months of time or vast sums of money to be competitive. And you're not only going to take that away from me, but you're going to make the whole "protection" thing a joke. Even with the bubble, I still go down in epic Demigorgon (and my protection with it). The game was fun again, for a while.
Then you changed the AD system. I know that people were abusing it, but you didn't reduce the effect, you virtually eliminated it. For people like me who work days, I could do Gateway from work. I can't log in and play content at work. So, I run dungeons and skirmishes. If I'm lucky, I can run one of each per night, since I can't live in the game. So I have to pick which character I'll have make the AD. Thanks to all of the nerfs already done to my characters, the only reasonable choices I have are OP and DC. I can't compete on DPS with any of my others, and the three things needed for any group are DC/Tank/DPS/DPS/DPS.
The reaction here is no different than in the past: we get long-winded explanations as to what went wrong, and then the whole world is shifted from under us. You don't make changes incrementally - you alter the entire game mechanics until people find a new way to survive. Yes, survive. All the truly OP characters will continue to be so with their Rank 12 enchants and mythic gear. The rest of us will struggle and beg them to come on runs with us so we can survive while the people who play all day try to find new combos or hacks or cheats.
Looking at balance again: I have a level 70 cleric. At that rank (pretending it's not egregiously ridiculous in D&D) I should almost be a demigod. I cast my daily Hammer at a level 71 ogre in the guild stronghold. He's not even a boss. He loses at most 1 bar of health, probably less. My OP comes in, drops a Divine Judgment on him, and he loses four to seven bars. My TR stealth-stabs him for that much. I am the divine conduit for my deity, and I can't even do 1/20th of the full-health damage to an ogre using my most powerful spell. Wearing epic 70 gear, he can hit me for 1/4 of mine. Flame Strike does better damage, and it's AoE. Almost every monster is immune to knockback, even though they're up against the (supposed) mightiest power of a god. This is supposed to be fun?
Then there are the class-specific artifacts. It makes absolute sense that you don't want me to refine them... after all I can reclaim them. So it's not hard to see an endless cycle of people claiming and dumping them into leveling other gear. Here's where (again) I'm punished. Either I don't level the gear, or when I get a usable artifact (like Bruenor's Helm) I have to put my artifact in the bank or toss it, because it's not salvageable. Wouldn't a simpler (and less punishing) solution be that you can't refine one of these items until it's, say, level 20? Sure, you can reclaim it for free, but you still have to level it to get a fraction of the input back. But as it is with all things Neverwinter now, it's binary. All the way or zero. Here, it's zero. It's my Sharandar armor all over again. Sure, I spent months (over a year now) refining my CW Artifact, but now that I have something else I want to use, I can get nothing out of it, since it can't be refined.
I could go on, but in the TL;DR world, most people stopped reading this paragraphs ago. You could take a measured approach and rather than relying on your own testing alone, scale things back say 25% at a time and let them be for a month or so while people adjust to the changes. You could do as others have suggested, and make the powers not refill while in use. (You do this with AP while Hallowed Ground is cast - unlike any other daily - so you obviously know how to code it). In the simplest of words, you could try more subtle shifts and let your player base decide if you've done enough.
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kathryntheredMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 13Arc User
You guys are a bunch of idiots. DP down from 20 to 6 seconds? This makes the class absolutely worthless. OPs have HAMSTER DPS, why on earth would anyone play one now over a GF? Why would anyone want one in a group over a GF? Since there is simply no reason whatsoever, that should tell you that you went way overboard.
You are right, people don't realize they did a 70% nerf because so many people are screaming nerf instead of trying to balance. They did not stop there, they nerfed 2 other dailies by 50%. The paladin was torn up, chewed up and spit out.
First, thanks for sharing your thought process and potential solutions. I think this is a good start despite the fact that I have a 3.3k bubble I like to play. I think this will bring back a lot of strategy and tactics that have been lacking.
Second, I'll be curious to see if you're willing to tweak these changes as you get feedback. My gut tells me this might be too big a nerf and you need to tweak some, but not much. Additionally, I see this as potentially affecting pugs and smaller guilds more. I don't see this affecting me or my guild as we are higher il and more coordinated in our tactics. It'll be interesting to see how the rest adapt...
Finally if you are doing this , then you seriously need to consider nerfing t2 mobs so they don't do 200-300k dmg per hit and one shot everyone...that gets old fast...
My biggest complaint with DC Gift of Haste change is the inability to really test it. Since we can't see our target's AP; it relies on cooperation from two people to test it; which is really difficult for players on Preview server.
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kwsapphireMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 671Arc User
edited April 2016
First, I am shocked that such a hard nerf is coming for the Paladin shield dailies, but NO ATTENTION is being given to Prism. Prism is the single most broken power in the game, and I've seen Prism Paladins not only trivialize content, but also bring the server to a grinding halt. How did the bubble warrant a nerf and Prism doesn't?
(Edit) Someone is telling me Prism was already nerfed, but if so, I missed those patch notes. (/edit)
Second, Gift of Haste now seems totally useless. As someone said, I can grant 1% per second. I am supposed to be happy with this? I am going from being able to generate roughly ~50 AP in a few seconds, to taking nearly a minute to do the same? AP gen has been reduced to 10% of its prior value?! That's ludicrous. Why would I even stay in this feat tree, now? I don't mind a slight nerf, but this makes the entire tree seem utterly pointless.
And back to the paladin nerfs, the three best dailies are also mostly useless.
Soooooo, when are yall coming out with Druids? Because goodness knows if my husband and I are going to want to play our OP and DC anymore..
The main issue I have with drastically changing the dynamic of the "Bubble Paladin" & "Haste Cleric" is how it will effect parties. The great thing about these two specific builds is that it helped everyone in the NeverWinter community play together. It didn't matter that your gear score wasn't up to 3k yet. Having these characters in your party ment you had a buffer. I honestly do not want to go back to the days when, if you didn't have a certain gear score, you were kicked out immediately.
Haste clerics & bubble Paladins made dungeon groups so much more relaxed & enjoyable for everyone. Rather than having every artifact and peice of gear being inspected the moment you arrive in a dungeon, you just grabbed some dps and went for it. All of my characters have benefitted from the coupling. It's much easier for lower dps to find a group & improve their gear.
I really REALLY really hope this is just an April fools day joke & we're not heading back towards item level/gear score controlled parties.
First, I am shocked that such a hard nerf is coming for the Paladin shield dailies, but NO ATTENTION is being given to Prism. Prism is the single most broken power in the game, and I've seen Prism Paladins not only trivialize content, but also bring the server to a grinding halt. How did the bubble warrant a nerf and Prism doesn't?
Second, Gift of Haste now seems totally useless. As someone said, I can grant 1% per second. I am supposed to be happy with this? I am going from being able to generate roughly ~50 AP in a few seconds, to taking nearly a minute to do the same? AP gen has been reduced to 10% of its prior value?! That's ludicrous. Why would I even stay in this feat tree, now? I don't mind a slight nerf, but this makes the entire tree seem utterly pointless.
And back to the paladin nerfs, the three best dailies are also mostly useless.
Soooooo, when are yall coming out with Druids? Because goodness knows if my husband and I are going to want to play our OP and DC anymore..
To be clear, prism got fixed with the lag and damage dealing via burning guidance quite a while ago now, I am not sure where you have been but prism is nothing like it once was. The huge amount of heals per second a paladin can put out are another issue yes, but for the most part they do not depend on prism to do this, Vow and Bond are quite enough on their own. -edit- you edited while i was writing my post
I am not sure how you can see haste as being useless. Isn't that 5% more AP that you have now then you had 5 seconds ago... and all you did was cast a skill you were going to cast anyways? And!, your party just got 5% more AP as well. I wonder what other feat/skill you use take that gives AP to your party like that... nope, i can't think of one either. Virtuous has much less of a clear use case now for sure, but that can be worked on. The tree should not be defined by a single feat.
Tell me again how useless 30% reduced incoming damage is on SoF? not 30% DR which has a cap at 80%, but 30% reduced damage which then further is reduced by DR. Heroism now lasts 10 seconds of CC immunity and also gives lots of temp HP, plenty enough time and power to use as a oh HAMSTER moment to either pick someone up or get yourself situated again. Divine Protector is a party saver like heroism is a personal saver.
If you think DC and OP are only good for haste and bubble then i pity your parties up until now because you left a lot on the table being so narrow minded. DC works exactly the same as before except it is not a AP bot, and now playing OP is a much more active event. These are not bad things
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Tested GoH. Work as described: 5% over 5 seconds. Now a rigtheous with GoH works +/- as well as a virtuous with this change: no need to have a virtuous dc anymore. Btw there was another DC with GoH close to me: GoH stacks (2x on the GoH icon). Now improve Unbreakable devotion and - why not - rework cleansing fire to provide mitigation instead of GoH\Heals to make this path viable again.
i pretty like the way they heal both trees i will never say no to a virtuous because got fixed his haste.
Change divine glow so it does a better heal, but doesn't apply a heal over time. If you leave it then virtuous will be a 3 tier only choice as pretty much all DC use DG so all of them can leverage the new GoH equally well. If you change it so it just applies a heal then virtuous could be the path that can maintain GoH best at least.
Are you going to change bastion and divine SB and healing word to not give a HoT as well? It isn't hard to work a HoT into a rotation no matter what spec you play. any changes to virtuous need to be made to the feats
Bastion has a long cooldown and healing word isn't really optimal sunburst is HAMSTER compared to pretty much any ability - it doesn't damage or heal well, and is mostly used to apply effects. Righteous could use SB I suppose to maximize GoH, but you're losing other powerful party buffs. DG is the only one that is a real problem IMO as it deserves a slot in most rotations, and would proc GoH regardless of the path. If it's changed then Virt will still proc GoH from DG(along with other damage abilities if they feat properly) so it has more options then the other 2 lines if it wants to take advantage of GoH.
I think they could change DG fix Virt capstone and probably call it a day until they can give a more comprehensive pass.
wow. you guys really burst my bubble. the least you could do is provide a respect token as I just created a paladin named "bubbleboy805" and JUST got him to level 70 and was all excited but then youd miss out on all that money youll get from people buying respect tokens!anyways. ill go cry in the shower now. thanks!
Post edited by kittenmittenz#3523 on
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isaintify1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 414Arc User
All the people complaining about the nerf to the bubble deserves a slap on the hand. I mean seriously when 9/10 paladins are exactly the same with the exact same build, making a group of people invincable to all damage for such a long time is ridiculous. 6 Seconds is a good set time to have on the bubbles duration so that it can be used intelligently, instead of a derp spam every second. Just be glad they did not do the whole "No ap to gain while this daily is up". That just makes it frustrating to play a class no matter the class.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
You could do as others have suggested, and make the powers not refill while in use. (You do this with AP while Hallowed Ground is cast - unlike any other daily - so you obviously know how to code it). In the simplest of words, you could try more subtle shifts and let your player base decide if you've done enough.
Bold part: entirely untrue. Most daily powers with a duration have had AP gain disabled while they are in effect. Lurker's Assault, Hallowed Ground and Divine Armor, Tyrannical Threat, Supremacy of Steel.
wow. you guys really burst my bubble. the least you could do is provide a respect token as I just created a paladin named "bubbleboy805" and JUST got him to level 70 and was all excited but then youd miss out on all that money youll get from people buying respect tokens! (hmm maybe that is the reason you created this class SLAYING nerf in the first place?) anyways. ill go cry in the shower now. thanks!
They usually do give respec tokens in these cases.
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ichimaruginxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 230Arc User
The Divine Protector nerf went to a BIT too FAR. Make it 10secs instead of 20secs (Cutting down by 50% uptime) would have been good. 6 secs max is just making it almost WORTHLESS since it's shielding 50% of dmg just like KV which is an ENCOUNTER not a DAILY. So it is basically now a short term KV.... Thus, a suggestion is that either you
increase the time duration and keep the 50% shielding (10secs?)
Increase the shielding with 6 secs duration(75%)
Turn it into an encounter
So TL;DR, I'm AGREEing that OP needs a nerf but not a COMPLETELY nerf so that they won't be viable for their role.
Next is an OP's ability to tank after the changes, I would like to suggest that their threat generation effectiveness to be increased. GFs have Tab to mark the mobs WITHOUT cooldown, Divine Call is highly depended on pips which is limited and regen slow in combat. Maybe change some of the Threat generation encounters etc to be more effective/more charges/longer duration. This will help Pallys move from the "Bubble is Tanking" mentality to "Tank generates THREAT" which is the typical tank mechanism of most games and also our fellow friends - GFs.
And I think it's very important now that party members NO LONG FACE TANK in the presence of an pally, weeeell they should have never faced tank in the first place... It's a damage mitigation to help the party survive, not a god mode button.
On the AP generation of DCs, I would like to applause you guys on the changes! DCs should have never been reduced to a AP pot and be refused because they aren't specced to give AP to that OP/other classes. THAT is not the original meaning of a DC nor the intention of any design of a Cleric. If a class need to depend on the AP by another class to play their role properly, then it means the player or the class is extremely broken/unbalanced. And yes the AP generation of a DC has been ther since the rework of DCs but the popularity only spiked to a very unhealthy level because of the creation of Pallys (Not pointing fingers here just pure facts) and I totally understand why because they provided a very good combo of Perma bubble -> Face Tanking Party members. Bad habit.
BUT, you forget that by taking AP from Virt tree, it has become a less useful tree than the other 2, there for imbalance. Also, DC has lost SO MUCH because of other classes. Cleanse and HG (No ap gain while Daily is active) for example. The Former because it cleanses OP's Temp HP, the latter because we have Gift of Haste. Please consider REWORKING the Virt tree so they are on par with the others and also rethink about giving us some AP gain (Maybe 20%) while HG is active.
Kudos also on the changes on DG tooltip. About time. Haven't tested the other changes yet, will comment when done.
To be clear, prism got fixed with the lag and damage dealing via burning guidance quite a while ago now, I am not sure where you have been but prism is nothing like it once was. The huge amount of heals per second a paladin can put out are another issue yes, but for the most part they do not depend on prism to do this, Vow and Bond are quite enough on their own. -edit- you edited while i was writing my post
I am not sure how you can see haste as being useless. Isn't that 5% more AP that you have now then you had 5 seconds ago... and all you did was cast a skill you were going to cast anyways? And!, your party just got 5% more AP as well. I wonder what other feat/skill you use take that gives AP to your party like that... nope, i can't think of one either. Virtuous has much less of a clear use case now for sure, but that can be worked on. The tree should not be defined by a single feat.
Tell me again how useless 30% reduced incoming damage is on SoF? not 30% DR which has a cap at 80%, but 30% reduced damage which then further is reduced by DR. Heroism now lasts 10 seconds of CC immunity and also gives lots of temp HP, plenty enough time and power to use as a oh HAMSTER moment to either pick someone up or get yourself situated again. Divine Protector is a party saver like heroism is a personal saver.
If you think DC and OP are only good for haste and bubble then i pity your parties up until now because you left a lot on the table being so narrow minded. DC works exactly the same as before except it is not a AP bot, and now playing OP is a much more active event. These are not bad things
First of all, there was a time when the only way to beat Temple of the Spider was to have a perma-bubble OP with an AP gain cleric, because the mobs were broken and ignoring damage resistance. Granted, the dungeon was broken and has since been fixed, but let's not act like the only reason to take this combo was to be over-powered. There was a time when it was the only way to survive.
Second, 5% "free" AP gain over five seconds is pittance. No one will even notice it, and items and boons grant far more. I just tested it: I am going from filling 63% AP in ten seconds to fill 10% in the same time frame? And that was luck, because Cleansing Fire procced a couple of times. It's more reliable that I can fill 47-ish in ten seconds. A slight nerf may have been warranted, to maybe half the value. But 5% over five seconds is so paltry that no one will even notice it, and it certainly doesn't make up for how inferior HoTs are to burst healing.
And let's talk about HoTs versus Burst Healing for a second. Gift of Haste is only supposed to work with HoTs, and yet the burst healing tree can execute its powers and generate nearly as much AP as a cleric who goes full HoT? The only increase in the HoT tree is Cleansing Fire? How is that even fair? I was already pretty upset when I realized it, and strongly considered going Faithful with three feats in Virtuous because of it.
Let me put it this way. Say you're used to earning $60/day for work, and now you're only going to earn $10 for the same amount of work. You can say "but that's $10 you wouldn't have if you didn't do the work!" - or you could find another job that pays better.
That's how I feel with the nerf to Gift of Haste. My husband and I will do some testing this weekend, but I anticipate extreme disappointment with my Virtuous DC. If the only thing Sun Burst, Bastion of Health and Divine Glow are going to be good for anymore is healing, I might as well go full Faithful and get some actual GOOD healing numbers out of them.
I would love to be proved wrong. I would be elated if the GoH nerf still allows Virtuous DCs to have any actual use. But based on the patch notes, the Virt tree seems totally useless. On the "up side", I can respec one of my clerics into the Righteous tree and experience all the grand DPS, buff, and debuff that the tree supposedly provides. I never thought I'd spec into a "DPS" cleric, the very idea seems absurd to me, but the Righteous tree is looking better and better.
Speaking from a completely neutral standpoint - and as a Permabubbledin player myself - I agree that it had to be nerfed. Completing entire T2 Dungeons with no one getting scratched was a problem. How is that a challenge at all?
Not sure about everyone else, but I want to feel like I'm being challenged in a game where the success of a Dungeon or Raid isn't completely hinged on a single class' ability to nullify all damage at all times. Each class should do what they're good at and each player behind the class should learn what makes them useful in the party - not just stand there and spam powers due to invulnerability. Permabubble needed to go to bring challenge back into the game.
Like Amenar said, bubble is supposed to be used in dire situations.
Am I scared I won't be able to rely on permabubble anymore? Of course! But I welcome the challenge.
I feel like I want to be challenged in a game ...... Sturmslinger of all things in this game you decide to effectively kill the class with your overboard nerfs instead of tuning it as usual take a good look at this ...
Suggestion of putting an idc on some daily's (most majors) for 1 min would do tons for this game but nop.
Sure permabubble had to go but the other daily's ? and when it comes to balance where is it??? any idea about the pals damage compared to other classes or utility when you take away the advantage they had toward Gfs.
The only reason pal was taken over Gfs was the bubble, now you even f-king (pardon my language but enough is enough) nerf the damage output and boost Gfs damage !!!!
Do you have any clue whatsoever about class balance and why some are picked when lfg (taking a look at Hr no you don't). You reasoning why a nerf to pal is sound and solid your response is as usual so far of the mark you will loose another bunch of players (and not for the first second or third time).
If above link don't give you a clue please do tell i can add plenty more................
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ichimaruginxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 230Arc User
First of all, there was a time when the only way to beat Temple of the Spider was to have a perma-bubble OP with an AP gain cleric, because the mobs were broken and ignoring damage resistance. Granted, the dungeon was broken and has since been fixed, but let's not act like the only reason to take this combo was to be over-powered. There was a time when it was the only way to survive.
Not entirely true. A faithful specced DC and a decent GF can complete eToS with much fun back then actually. Now it's a faceroll. But for eCC I would agree that you will need a good party on top of those 2 to complete it.
Second, 5% "free" AP gain over five seconds is pittance. No one will even notice it, and items and boons grant far more. I just tested it: I am going from filling 63% AP in ten seconds to fill 10% in the same time frame? And that was luck, because Cleansing Fire procced a couple of times. It's more reliable that I can fill 47-ish in ten seconds. A slight nerf may have been warranted, to maybe half the value. But 5% over five seconds is so paltry that no one will even notice it, and it certainly doesn't make up for how inferior HoTs are to burst healing.
And let's talk about HoTs versus Burst Healing for a second. Gift of Haste is only supposed to work with HoTs, and yet the burst healing tree can execute its powers and generate nearly as much AP as a cleric who goes full HoT? The only increase in the HoT tree is Cleansing Fire? How is that even fair? I was already pretty upset when I realized it, and strongly considered going Faithful with three feats in Virtuous because of it.
Let me put it this way. Say you're used to earning $60/day for work, and now you're only going to earn $10 for the same amount of work. You can say "but that's $10 you wouldn't have if you didn't do the work!" - or you could find another job that pays better.
That's how I feel with the nerf to Gift of Haste. My husband and I will do some testing this weekend, but I anticipate extreme disappointment with my Virtuous DC. If the only thing Sun Burst, Bastion of Health and Divine Glow are going to be good for anymore is healing, I might as well go full Faithful and get some actual GOOD healing numbers out of them.
I would love to be proved wrong. I would be elated if the GoH nerf still allows Virtuous DCs to have any actual use. But based on the patch notes, the Virt tree seems totally useless. On the "up side", I can respec one of my clerics into the Righteous tree and experience all the grand DPS, buff, and debuff that the tree supposedly provides. I never thought I'd spec into a "DPS" cleric, the very idea seems absurd to me, but the Righteous tree is looking better and better.
Might be a good news to you then, I am a righteous DC with 15 points in Virt for Haste. BEFORE THE CHANGES: It works amazingly (Not as much AP generated as a true Virt but part members often say that it's actually enough for them). So, yes I would completely suggest your change to eitehr faithful for more heals or righteous for 25% dps buff to party In truth, I've tried Virt before this but I felt that too much AP was wasted and that the 25% buff would have increased the party's effectiveness more than that extra edge in AP that Virt does, so I swapped. It's entirely up to you ofc, just sharing my experience ^^
Speaking from a completely neutral standpoint - and as a Permabubbledin player myself - I agree that it had to be nerfed. Completing entire T2 Dungeons with no one getting scratched was a problem. How is that a challenge at all?
Not sure about everyone else, but I want to feel like I'm being challenged in a game where the success of a Dungeon or Raid isn't completely hinged on a single class' ability to nullify all damage at all times. Each class should do what they're good at and each player behind the class should learn what makes them useful in the party - not just stand there and spam powers due to invulnerability. Permabubble needed to go to bring challenge back into the game.
Like Amenar said, bubble is supposed to be used in dire situations.
Am I scared I won't be able to rely on permabubble anymore? Of course! But I welcome the challenge.
Ok i know there are a lot of people out there who think t2 is still a challenge... But there are also more skilled players that think t2 is a real pain because the rewards ( Temple of spider, Grey wolf den an cragmire crypts ) do not compensate for the time they spent on it. A normal T2 run is for my guild doable in around 5-10 min max. Getting one epic equipment from the endboss in the chest is really not worth the time or the "challenge" to go into a T2 dungeo. We can do elol or a skirmish twice in that time and see double the profit for less amount of pain or "challenge". The core problem now is that OP tanks or GF tanks do not create enough aggro which leads to the problem that high dmg dealing party members still manage to steal aggro from them. The only way to prevent this is either tell your member to stop dealing dmg (which is as u can see for yourself not very smart) or use a bubble paladin to absorb the dmg because of a lack in aggro generation. Try to rethink some of your decisions , go out test it in dungeons with your staff and players from time to time.
EDIT: Can we separate all Class changes from each other. Its starting to get very confusing in this thread when 2 or 3 people talk to each other about one class and 2 other talk about something totally different.
Not entirely true. A faithful specced DC and a decent GF can complete eToS with much fun back then actually. Now it's a faceroll. But for eCC I would agree that you will need a good party on top of those 2 to complete it.
Well, I can't comment on a GF and a Faithful DC. I did take my Virtuous DC with a GF into eToS even after the ignore-resistance bug was fixed, and it was one of the most painful things I've ever forced myself to endure. And this is supposedly a very good GF, who gets much praise from respected communities. And yet, running eToS with him multiple times, I literally thought the bug was back, because people were just face-planting all over the place. So again, it just makes Virtuous feel much weaker than Faithful.
I am looking forward to testing this weekend, and finding a build that works for me moving forward. I only hope my husband doesn't utterly lose interest in his paladin (and therefore the game).
Well, I tested the Lostmauth set nerf on my GWF on Preview. It is no joke and is devastating to CWs. So, ya even GWFs that are not BIS will not be welcome to most parties.
good news: OP are officialy support class now, you are not considerd support class untill you get nerf to the bone in order to make content more challenging.
i admit it was needed, but 1% AP per sec is less then my cape is doing and thats basically nothing. this and OP nerf it will hit hard new players that find it hard to do dungeons.
* you dont mind ppl going arround with 20K crit, 40K power and doing solo the 'end game' dungeons in half hour?
DC AP gains are reduced AND don't stack? That's too much, it should still stack. I can understand reducing it to an AP gain over time, but if it doesn't stack on multiple casts, you have just ruined DCs like me who have set up ALL MY GEAR for synergy with gift of Haste. You can't just make changes like this on a whim when it takes so much time and investment to level up artifact gear and enchantments... and many of us spend REAL MONEY in the process! There should be huge compensation for people playing these classes if these changes are put in place permanently.
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kwsapphireMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 671Arc User
this and OP nerf it will hit hard new players that find it hard to do dungeons.
My husband and I were saying the same thing. This will be especially hard on lower level OPs and DCs who haven't even hit the end-game yet. All of the content is going to be so much harder, and more of a grind for them.
I will speak as a DC player of all 3 paths. First of all, i know these permabubble is one of the real issue and should be solved as soon as possible. However, nerfing GoH until 1% per sec without stacking is an overkill, let me tell you why:
For most of us who had a clear understanding on DC, each path (V/F/R) are designed for different purpose and have different playstyle. I guess none of the devs mained a DC or even tried to advance as a DC from level 1 to level 70 and then from 2k il to 4k il. The experience and playstyle is totally different for each small il progression and we DC have to cope seriously when we pug or even premade with others. In other words, we are everything at anytime. If ppl need heal, we heal, if ppl need dps, we multiply their damage, if ppl need someone to tank, we will go front and try not to die, if ppl need AP, we will try our best to spam some HoT to keep our OP daily up and so on bla bla bla....
Personally, i was a virtuous dc with GoH, pvp faithful tank with GoH and a righteous heavy debuffer with GoH. The magnitude of AP shared as virtuous is totally different as the other two. As the virtuous feat does apply HoT quite frequently, GoH starts to shine as a potential key feature to have for low il party. As a faithful and righteous, though we can still apply GoH, the effect is too small as we dont always have HoT skill in our bar and we dont have extra virtuous feat to trigger it. Thus, GoH only shines in the hand of virtuous. By limiting it to 1% per sec without stacking, virtuous and the other 2 paths have no difference anymore, losing its signature ability. Moreover, the amount of AP gain is drastically reduced until the feat is totally useless. I will give you an example. If i cast 5 HoT skills in 5 sec i should get 5x5%=25% AP, but with the new mechanic i will only get 5% by the time i casted all 5 HoT, even i included another 4% after 4 sec i still only have 9% extra AP. A artifact necklace can do better than 5 points in this feat in terms of triggering condition and AP/s, is this what you all want to see?
Previously, when daily spamming from TR (SE) due to legendary DC sigil, what the devs did is not nerf the sigil but nerf two DC daily until we cant gain AP for 15 sec+. After that, the DC who didnt use their sigil previously has problem to cast their daily while the daily spamming TR are still spamming their daily like nothing. This time i saw the same thing happening again. The way to solve perma bubble from their artifact weapons, DC sigil and AP stat gain is to nerf DC's GoH. Is that related? Yes but only in lower bracket il where OP is still not geared enough. I would like to say, dont consider nerfing DC as the ultimate solution for daily spamming, how many times we are not the culprit but yet we get no bug fixing but more nerfs??
From my perspective, there is some good solutions without hurting DC too much but can also solve the problem of TR SE spamming and OP perma bubble: 1. GoH changed to 0.5% AP/s for 5 sec but allow to stack (no more burst AP but slower steady AP gain per sec) 2. Tune down the duration of OP bubble (you all already did so i will skip) 3. Change the DC sigil active to be double AP gain rate for 10 sec at mythic instead of giving full AP bar per min.
If you really think perma bubble is not because of your luxury snail, hard to grind burning weapon set, mythic DC sigil, gorgon and embellished apparatus mount but is only our DC feat, go on to nerf it as your like and kill the virtuous path. We are not needed for pve as healer over 2.5k il, no more AP buff for team as virtuous so faithful will be more superior in healing that it. If you really want to nerf GoH, go ahead but remember to remove the AP gain penalty on DC dailies which last time you all nerf us without reason. Do not hurt DC anymore when you dont have to, if you need more information abt DC, please ask the devs who mained a DC to go into temple forum to discuss with us, ty!! (though i think this guy not exist)
^^ THIS, pretty much this. But if the devs want to implement GoH as they have planned, they should review the overall virtuous path and that's why I suggest to improve the mitigation features: currently we have "have faith" only as an effective mitigation feat. Unbreakable Devotion could be easily boosted and cleasing fire reworked to provide mitigation (instead of healing), while the remaining virtuous feats still provide many options to be a strong healer. And I'm talking about feats only. If we enter into the powers domain, we could write an encyclopedia of things to be fixed.
Oltreverso guild leader Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
I like the nerf of Pally/DC! It makes the game a lot more interesting. On the other hand, GF now becomes a lot more important. I am disappointed in not seeing other changes though. GWF is way more powerful than other classes. It seems they pretend it i not the case. I was actually hoping for a nerf for them. No one can claim that with GWF, there is class balance in the game.
1 - as the survivability of the Paladin has been diminished, are there any plans for the dps to be improved? Previously, it was clear that Guardian had the better dps, but Paladin had the invincibility. Now, Guardian may have both.
2 - with such sweeping changes to classes, and as many have put a lot of time and effort into a class that ... may suddenly not be fun anymore, are there any plans to allow for a 1-time class change?
I am not sure you understand the ramifications of this change, there are a lot of paladins who started with mod 6, you already lost a ton of people due to changes. So your trying to drive more away? You need to balance the nerfs with buffs in other areas.
I agree, GF always had better buffs and DPS, if you make this change you need to upgrade palidan dps and buffs.
Note: I am suggesting making some of the below changes not all.
Change smite to give the x2 damage for mobs with less then 30% or another similar power so it scales with GF dps.
Increase the damage buff of radiant strike from 5% to 10%, this may seem like alot but considering that palidans dont hit very hard in the first place its not.
Change Aura of Courage from 1% to 2% per hit points
Increase the At-Will-Damage of Paladins
Make Binding Oath Ignore Resistance in PVP, otherwise its useless power, there are already too many.
Dont nerf DP so badly, 10s max is much more reasonable, 50% damage is fine.
Triple the damage of Divine Touch, its terrible atm.
Double the Damage Absolution absorbs or make it scale with something, its also useless atm.
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Oh and also since AP gain is the issue of the day Chains of Blasing Light and Searing Light still give AP in their divine forms.
We're encouraged to have up to 5 characters for free - so we have to either work on one character as our focus, or spend hours most of us don't have trying to level the characters' gear so we don't become so underpowered that we can't survive the content and/or people don't want us in their parties because we're being hauled along. Swapping GS with IL only changed what people ask for in the queues. IL is nearing 3K for demands for most PUGs.
Then there's the whole damage increase from enemies at level 70. I used to be able to solo "Need for Mead" on even my weak SW. Now the only one who can solo it is my OP, with his bubble up. It takes forever given his lack of DPS, but at least he can finish it. My CW, DC, SW, and TR all die. I've used respect tokens on all of them following various builds on the forums, but nothing I do makes even that content possible. Even now, I routinely get one-shot on every character but my OP.
When I first rolled my OP, I had no idea what different dailies would be. Once I saw the bubble in action, I realized why people didn't want me in their parties, and I had to respect so that I had it. And I had to swap my DC so he had Gift of Haste, because people (still) didn't want a healer who was less effective than their potions and couldn't keep them alive.
The problem that Cryptic seems to have is that it doesn't balance content for those of us who are still trying to level our gear. Not all of my characters have attained purple artifact gear yet, because - again - it's hard to get people to bring along a warlock who's leveling his gear and risks success of the run. It is maddening to run Tiamat (when enough people decide to queue up) and fail because there isn't enough DPS. I will grant you that it's just as maddening that four people pretty much do all of the DPS in a win run, but again, the balance is missing. Why do so many people use Sigil of the Devoted? Because AP leads to dailies, and dailies are how PCs stay alive. I try to run ToS without a bubble paladin and those phase spiders take out the whole team within seconds. That's not fun. It's not challenging. It's maddening.
I spent months building up my Sharandar set on my DC. It was hard to do, and the benefits of it made me as desired as a DC ever was for healing. Then you upped the levels, and my set became less effective than green gear at 61. Blue gear at 62 was more effective than what I had spent months grinding to achieve, and it could be had for less than 500 AD per piece on the AH. When I leveled my paladin, every time I hit a new level range I just hit up the AH for blue gear. Why bother with seals at all? Who cares about quest gear? Someone's found stuff I can use right away and the game is so flooded with it I can buy it and do better than surviving.
I waited, and I waited, letting my Sharandar gear sit taking up my bank space, for some way to "upgrade" it or trade it in for some new set. I finally sacrificed it to the salvage altar during the last Double AD event, because it was clear to me that I was never going to get any kind of recognition for the time I spent getting that gear.
Then you introduced the ultimate in pay-to-win: VIP. I signed up like almost everyone else did, too. Only two of my characters had the full Lathander set, and since traps suddenly became extremely deadly, it was the only way to be safe. Except that I ground for three months (seems to be a magic number) before I got my first two Eyes. Two more months of grinding never yielded a third, and I finally gave up. But, I did give up two months of my life to get the first two Eyes. And players gain the set bonus for $8.50 a month: no farming, no leveling of gauntlets, and no grinding required.
So you bring in the OP class. It's been missing since launch (along with a druid) but, like all new classes, it is dramatically overpowered. The Oath of Protection made it the OP OP OP. But while it felt like a cheat, I wasn't dying, and with an AP DC, I was able to keep the party alive. People thanked me at the end of a dungeon run. I didn't have to spend months of time or vast sums of money to be competitive. And you're not only going to take that away from me, but you're going to make the whole "protection" thing a joke. Even with the bubble, I still go down in epic Demigorgon (and my protection with it). The game was fun again, for a while.
Then you changed the AD system. I know that people were abusing it, but you didn't reduce the effect, you virtually eliminated it. For people like me who work days, I could do Gateway from work. I can't log in and play content at work. So, I run dungeons and skirmishes. If I'm lucky, I can run one of each per night, since I can't live in the game. So I have to pick which character I'll have make the AD. Thanks to all of the nerfs already done to my characters, the only reasonable choices I have are OP and DC. I can't compete on DPS with any of my others, and the three things needed for any group are DC/Tank/DPS/DPS/DPS.
The reaction here is no different than in the past: we get long-winded explanations as to what went wrong, and then the whole world is shifted from under us. You don't make changes incrementally - you alter the entire game mechanics until people find a new way to survive. Yes, survive. All the truly OP characters will continue to be so with their Rank 12 enchants and mythic gear. The rest of us will struggle and beg them to come on runs with us so we can survive while the people who play all day try to find new combos or hacks or cheats.
Looking at balance again: I have a level 70 cleric. At that rank (pretending it's not egregiously ridiculous in D&D) I should almost be a demigod. I cast my daily Hammer at a level 71 ogre in the guild stronghold. He's not even a boss. He loses at most 1 bar of health, probably less. My OP comes in, drops a Divine Judgment on him, and he loses four to seven bars. My TR stealth-stabs him for that much. I am the divine conduit for my deity, and I can't even do 1/20th of the full-health damage to an ogre using my most powerful spell. Wearing epic 70 gear, he can hit me for 1/4 of mine. Flame Strike does better damage, and it's AoE. Almost every monster is immune to knockback, even though they're up against the (supposed) mightiest power of a god. This is supposed to be fun?
Then there are the class-specific artifacts. It makes absolute sense that you don't want me to refine them... after all I can reclaim them. So it's not hard to see an endless cycle of people claiming and dumping them into leveling other gear. Here's where (again) I'm punished. Either I don't level the gear, or when I get a usable artifact (like Bruenor's Helm) I have to put my artifact in the bank or toss it, because it's not salvageable. Wouldn't a simpler (and less punishing) solution be that you can't refine one of these items until it's, say, level 20? Sure, you can reclaim it for free, but you still have to level it to get a fraction of the input back. But as it is with all things Neverwinter now, it's binary. All the way or zero. Here, it's zero. It's my Sharandar armor all over again. Sure, I spent months (over a year now) refining my CW Artifact, but now that I have something else I want to use, I can get nothing out of it, since it can't be refined.
I could go on, but in the TL;DR world, most people stopped reading this paragraphs ago. You could take a measured approach and rather than relying on your own testing alone, scale things back say 25% at a time and let them be for a month or so while people adjust to the changes. You could do as others have suggested, and make the powers not refill while in use. (You do this with AP while Hallowed Ground is cast - unlike any other daily - so you obviously know how to code it). In the simplest of words, you could try more subtle shifts and let your player base decide if you've done enough.
Second, I'll be curious to see if you're willing to tweak these changes as you get feedback. My gut tells me this might be too big a nerf and you need to tweak some, but not much. Additionally, I see this as potentially affecting pugs and smaller guilds more. I don't see this affecting me or my guild as we are higher il and more coordinated in our tactics. It'll be interesting to see how the rest adapt...
Finally if you are doing this , then you seriously need to consider nerfing t2 mobs so they don't do 200-300k dmg per hit and one shot everyone...that gets old fast...
The Legendary Outlaws
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(Edit) Someone is telling me Prism was already nerfed, but if so, I missed those patch notes. (/edit)
Second, Gift of Haste now seems totally useless. As someone said, I can grant 1% per second. I am supposed to be happy with this? I am going from being able to generate roughly ~50 AP in a few seconds, to taking nearly a minute to do the same? AP gen has been reduced to 10% of its prior value?! That's ludicrous. Why would I even stay in this feat tree, now? I don't mind a slight nerf, but this makes the entire tree seem utterly pointless.
And back to the paladin nerfs, the three best dailies are also mostly useless.
Soooooo, when are yall coming out with Druids? Because goodness knows if my husband and I are going to want to play our OP and DC anymore..
Haste clerics & bubble Paladins made dungeon groups so much more relaxed & enjoyable for everyone. Rather than having every artifact and peice of gear being inspected the moment you arrive in a dungeon, you just grabbed some dps and went for it. All of my characters have benefitted from the coupling. It's much easier for lower dps to find a group & improve their gear.
I really REALLY really hope this is just an April fools day joke & we're not heading back towards item level/gear score controlled parties.
I am not sure how you can see haste as being useless. Isn't that 5% more AP that you have now then you had 5 seconds ago... and all you did was cast a skill you were going to cast anyways? And!, your party just got 5% more AP as well. I wonder what other feat/skill you use take that gives AP to your party like that... nope, i can't think of one either. Virtuous has much less of a clear use case now for sure, but that can be worked on. The tree should not be defined by a single feat.
Tell me again how useless 30% reduced incoming damage is on SoF? not 30% DR which has a cap at 80%, but 30% reduced damage which then further is reduced by DR.
Heroism now lasts 10 seconds of CC immunity and also gives lots of temp HP, plenty enough time and power to use as a oh HAMSTER moment to either pick someone up or get yourself situated again.
Divine Protector is a party saver like heroism is a personal saver.
If you think DC and OP are only good for haste and bubble then i pity your parties up until now because you left a lot on the table being so narrow minded. DC works exactly the same as before except it is not a AP bot, and now playing OP is a much more active event. These are not bad things
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
I think they could change DG fix Virt capstone and probably call it a day until they can give a more comprehensive pass.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
The Divine Protector nerf went to a BIT too FAR. Make it 10secs instead of 20secs (Cutting down by 50% uptime) would have been good. 6 secs max is just making it almost WORTHLESS since it's shielding 50% of dmg just like KV which is an ENCOUNTER not a DAILY. So it is basically now a short term KV.... Thus, a suggestion is that either you
- Turn it into an encounter
So TL;DR, I'm AGREEing that OP needs a nerf but not a COMPLETELY nerf so that they won't be viable for their role.Next is an OP's ability to tank after the changes, I would like to suggest that their threat generation effectiveness to be increased. GFs have Tab to mark the mobs WITHOUT cooldown, Divine Call is highly depended on pips which is limited and regen slow in combat. Maybe change some of the Threat generation encounters etc to be more effective/more charges/longer duration. This will help Pallys move from the "Bubble is Tanking" mentality to "Tank generates THREAT" which is the typical tank mechanism of most games and also our fellow friends - GFs.
And I think it's very important now that party members NO LONG FACE TANK in the presence of an pally, weeeell they should have never faced tank in the first place... It's a damage mitigation to help the party survive, not a god mode button.
On the AP generation of DCs, I would like to applause you guys on the changes! DCs should have never been reduced to a AP pot and be refused because they aren't specced to give AP to that OP/other classes. THAT is not the original meaning of a DC nor the intention of any design of a Cleric. If a class need to depend on the AP by another class to play their role properly, then it means the player or the class is extremely broken/unbalanced. And yes the AP generation of a DC has been ther since the rework of DCs but the popularity only spiked to a very unhealthy level because of the creation of Pallys (Not pointing fingers here just pure facts) and I totally understand why because they provided a very good combo of Perma bubble -> Face Tanking Party members. Bad habit.
BUT, you forget that by taking AP from Virt tree, it has become a less useful tree than the other 2, there for imbalance. Also, DC has lost SO MUCH because of other classes. Cleanse and HG (No ap gain while Daily is active) for example. The Former because it cleanses OP's Temp HP, the latter because we have Gift of Haste. Please consider REWORKING the Virt tree so they are on par with the others and also rethink about giving us some AP gain (Maybe 20%) while HG is active.
Kudos also on the changes on DG tooltip. About time. Haven't tested the other changes yet, will comment when done.
Join Now! - Infernal Paragons , The Infernal Alliance
Second, 5% "free" AP gain over five seconds is pittance. No one will even notice it, and items and boons grant far more. I just tested it: I am going from filling 63% AP in ten seconds to fill 10% in the same time frame? And that was luck, because Cleansing Fire procced a couple of times. It's more reliable that I can fill 47-ish in ten seconds. A slight nerf may have been warranted, to maybe half the value. But 5% over five seconds is so paltry that no one will even notice it, and it certainly doesn't make up for how inferior HoTs are to burst healing.
And let's talk about HoTs versus Burst Healing for a second. Gift of Haste is only supposed to work with HoTs, and yet the burst healing tree can execute its powers and generate nearly as much AP as a cleric who goes full HoT? The only increase in the HoT tree is Cleansing Fire? How is that even fair? I was already pretty upset when I realized it, and strongly considered going Faithful with three feats in Virtuous because of it.
Let me put it this way. Say you're used to earning $60/day for work, and now you're only going to earn $10 for the same amount of work. You can say "but that's $10 you wouldn't have if you didn't do the work!" - or you could find another job that pays better.
That's how I feel with the nerf to Gift of Haste. My husband and I will do some testing this weekend, but I anticipate extreme disappointment with my Virtuous DC. If the only thing Sun Burst, Bastion of Health and Divine Glow are going to be good for anymore is healing, I might as well go full Faithful and get some actual GOOD healing numbers out of them.
I would love to be proved wrong. I would be elated if the GoH nerf still allows Virtuous DCs to have any actual use. But based on the patch notes, the Virt tree seems totally useless. On the "up side", I can respec one of my clerics into the Righteous tree and experience all the grand DPS, buff, and debuff that the tree supposedly provides. I never thought I'd spec into a "DPS" cleric, the very idea seems absurd to me, but the Righteous tree is looking better and better.
Sturmslinger of all things in this game you decide to effectively kill the class with your overboard nerfs instead of tuning it as usual take a good look at this ...
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1214014/orcus-speedkills-boss-burns
Suggestion of putting an idc on some daily's (most majors) for 1 min would do tons for this game but nop.
Sure permabubble had to go but the other daily's ? and when it comes to balance where is it??? any idea about the pals damage compared to other classes or utility when you take away the advantage they had toward Gfs.
The only reason pal was taken over Gfs was the bubble, now you even f-king (pardon my language but enough is enough) nerf the damage output and boost Gfs damage !!!!
Do you have any clue whatsoever about class balance and why some are picked when lfg (taking a look at Hr no you don't).
You reasoning why a nerf to pal is sound and solid your response is as usual so far of the mark you will loose another bunch of players (and not for the first second or third time).
If above link don't give you a clue please do tell i can add plenty more................
Join Now! - Infernal Paragons , The Infernal Alliance
The core problem now is that OP tanks or GF tanks do not create enough aggro which leads to the problem that high dmg dealing party members still manage to steal aggro from them. The only way to prevent this is either tell your member to stop dealing dmg (which is as u can see for yourself not very smart) or use a bubble paladin to absorb the dmg because of a lack in aggro generation.
Try to rethink some of your decisions , go out test it in dungeons with your staff and players from time to time.
EDIT: Can we separate all Class changes from each other. Its starting to get very confusing in this thread when 2 or 3 people talk to each other about one class and 2 other talk about something totally different.
I am looking forward to testing this weekend, and finding a build that works for me moving forward. I only hope my husband doesn't utterly lose interest in his paladin (and therefore the game).
i admit it was needed, but 1% AP per sec is less then my cape is doing and thats basically nothing.
this and OP nerf it will hit hard new players that find it hard to do dungeons.
* you dont mind ppl going arround with 20K crit, 40K power and doing solo the 'end game' dungeons in half hour?
My husband and I were saying the same thing. This will be especially hard on lower level OPs and DCs who haven't even hit the end-game yet. All of the content is going to be so much harder, and more of a grind for them.
But if the devs want to implement GoH as they have planned, they should review the overall virtuous path and that's why I suggest to improve the mitigation features: currently we have "have faith" only as an effective mitigation feat.
Unbreakable Devotion could be easily boosted and cleasing fire reworked to provide mitigation (instead of healing), while the remaining virtuous feats still provide many options to be a strong healer.
And I'm talking about feats only. If we enter into the powers domain, we could write an encyclopedia of things to be fixed.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
I am disappointed in not seeing other changes though. GWF is way more powerful than other classes. It seems they pretend it i not the case. I was actually hoping for a nerf for them. No one can claim that with GWF, there is class balance in the game.
I agree, GF always had better buffs and DPS, if you make this change you need to upgrade palidan dps and buffs.
Note: I am suggesting making some of the below changes not all.