Now I have a good DC .. Know you how much it costs? Replacement pieces of equipment ? It's not just the cost of training my character. How many people can afford to drop a few kk AD ? Because of changes GoH..
So... Snail, burning set, all bis things and you saying OP will be useless piece of s after changes? Tanks a)taking aggro b)taking damage from party members. You even nerfing shield... WTF is wrong with you. GFs kv is a) encounter b)has basically no cooldown, since no kv means GF died. But SM tacticians hardly even die... IV players are another story.
also the mount system, make the mount system let all the mounts bind to account instead of per character so incase if you force me to take these changes I can easily move to a better class if my current one is destroyed by nerf hammer!!!
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Super ;-/ too much DC is in the game .. Now only waiting for the hour to healer came to queue on the dungeons .. interesting how many DC AP resigns from the game? And the longer it will be waited for queue .. certainly greater interest in this game ..
The cost of replacing equipment may be too big a blow to some players.
Killing Virtuous path does not serve in any way a new players and only irritates experienced players
Sorry for poor English is not my native language.
OP heals better than any DC if they spec to heal, and there are still many DCs around for you, however in righteous debuff spec.
Another request, if I may. Make Test of Faith go out to all party members, not just one. Most likely it'll go to the dc because he is always being damaged. Hell playing Demo sometimes I am targeted immediately because i can pull that much aggro. and while the heal goes to me, that's fine. But what about the other party members that may need it more. Light of divinity already does this but is worthless even with it's artifact off-hand bonus. It would help a bit on the healer side and give the Faithful Cleric a better chance at healing since it becomes harder healing once gift is expended and group is scattered.
So quick impression after a few minutes of solo play.
For my Bulwark spec OP these changes are irrelevant for solo play. I'll just run Judgement as always. With 3 points in Heroism I cannot quite cycle it constantly, but its not a lot of down time even with the weak hits I take in solo play.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
will the lostmouth change effect other similar powers and feats?
for example: unbreakble devotion, fire of the gods, divine interversion, shield fo the divine, geas, warding flare... basicly half of DC feats have similar "mechanics" to lostmouth set whiich is based on your weaapon damage
have guys lost your minds making the guardian fighters power recharge even quicker you have just made the pvp guardian fighters that are using the stealth rings that much more impossible to beat rethink this or get rid of the stealth rings
The stealth rings.. ALWAYS get rid of the stealth rings.
This 1000000%......... All you really need to do is Make stealth DRAIN STAMINA and when out, it removes you from stealth... Now its still fun but atleast more "balanceD"
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
will the lostmouth change effect other similar powers and feats?
for example: unbreakble devotion, fire of the gods, divine interversion, shield fo the divine, geas, warding flare... basicly half of DC feats have similar "mechanics" to lostmouth set whiich is based on your weaapon damage
Like righteous DCs really need a damage nerf when DCs already do low DPS....
I tested my 1,9k Il,boonless no companion OP Prot in IWD. Still unkillable.
The problem was not the bubble...but the Binding Oath+templar's Wrath combo.If these two did not existed in the current form OP would die when cast DP.
It is binding oath combined with the justice tree and templar's wrath massive temp hit point that make a OP immortal.
I was able to permanantly have up 96k temp hit point and cast Binding oath in between.In case B.Oath did not overlap it would chew my temp hit points..not my normal ones.
problem still exists,the changes did not touched the core of the problem.
With a purple DC sigil and a DC ,even after the changes ,Div protector will be 50% up time at least.
Mid tier geared Ops will lose nothing ,the low level ones will take the hit.
These nerfs are outrageous and I for 1 am really disappointed I worked really hard on my DC and my bubble pally and they are completely running them to the ground im furious at this and will must likely leave the game soon
I tested my 1,9k Il,boonless no companion OP Prot in IWD. Still unkillable.
The problem was not the bubble...but the Binding Oath+templar's Wrath combo.If these two did not existed in the current form OP would die when cast DP.
It is binding oath combined with the justice tree and templar's wrath massive temp hit point that make a OP immortal.
I was able to permanantly have up 96k temp hit point and cast Binding oath in between.In case B.Oath did not overlap it would chew my temp hit points..not my normal ones.
problem still exists,the changes did not touched the core of the problem.
With a purple DC sigil and a DC ,even after the changes ,Div protector will be 50% up time at least.
Mid tier geared Ops will lose nothing ,the low level ones will take the hit.
Someone needs to test whether OPs can tank orcus with these changes.
I tested my 1,9k Il,boonless no companion OP Prot in IWD. Still unkillable.
The problem was not the bubble...but the Binding Oath+templar's Wrath combo.If these two did not existed in the current form OP would die when cast DP.
It is binding oath combined with the justice tree and templar's wrath massive temp hit point that make a OP immortal.
I was able to permanantly have up 96k temp hit point and cast Binding oath in between.In case B.Oath did not overlap it would chew my temp hit points..not my normal ones.
problem still exists,the changes did not touched the core of the problem.
With a purple DC sigil and a DC ,even after the changes ,Div protector will be 50% up time at least.
Mid tier geared Ops will lose nothing ,the low level ones will take the hit.
Someone needs to test whether OPs can tank orcus with these changes.
Of course they can't.
These nerfs need to come with a class reroll token. No way will I play a Paladin after these changes. Why would anyone want a Paladin in their party over a GF after these changes?
I tested my 1,9k Il,boonless no companion OP Prot in IWD. Still unkillable.
The problem was not the bubble...but the Binding Oath+templar's Wrath combo.If these two did not existed in the current form OP would die when cast DP.
It is binding oath combined with the justice tree and templar's wrath massive temp hit point that make a OP immortal.
I was able to permanantly have up 96k temp hit point and cast Binding oath in between.In case B.Oath did not overlap it would chew my temp hit points..not my normal ones.
problem still exists,the changes did not touched the core of the problem.
With a purple DC sigil and a DC ,even after the changes ,Div protector will be 50% up time at least.
Mid tier geared Ops will lose nothing ,the low level ones will take the hit.
BS. Haste DC is getting nerf as well. Whats the point of 'being immortal' when u not deal enough dmg in PvP and cant protect teammates in PvP and PvE. 6 seconds on bubble. Ok current bubble is too much. But there is too much damage like blue dragon attacks in SH. Basically bubble is needed there. KV or shield of faith cant protect me from being one shotted there. For people like me, without dodge, its insta wipe. Now, they nerf both dailies, only ways to intercept damage from teammates. Not all have BiS gear and now shield will be new bubble. 12 seconds, echo procing only once per 15 seconds. You just hate OPs, thats all. After change it will be very hard to get gear for fresh players.
Especially do not change because of a few people with Item 4000 level. Most players have item level much smaller. With the weakening of bubbles for 10 seconds agree. Sorry for my english
So basically the Pally will now just take up a char slot for invoking only. If the changes as they are now go live, the class is HAMSTER. The class will not be invited to groups or queues anymore. What do they bring to the table to help out? Yes some of the changes were needed but damn, make them no so drastic. DP was 20 secs, make it 10 to 12 secs. SoF, maybe 60% instead of 80%.
I'm pretty happy with where Heroism sits now, if nothing else changes it will be a solid power for use in dungeons (and presumably remain useful in PvP).
In comparison I would say its time to throw Divine Protector out and make it something else. The tiny window of immunity it grants to damage is useless. Sure you could use it in very specific fights to protect the party against very specific things (by that I pretty much mean Orcus, because there is no certainty you will have it available in eDemo), but the chances its even on your bar with these changes are minimal. Nearly every fight you want it, it is unreliable for one reason or another (AP drain, Madness, CC effects being the main causes).
At this point I think it would be better to scratch Divine Protector entirely and come up with something else, and while you are at it come up with something to replace Banishment and Absolution that might be worth slotting.
Given that you have nuked Divine Protector effectively I also have to repeat the need to address our DPS and Agro so that we can tank effectively. Keeping in mind that not everyone is playing down the Justice line.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
I tested my 1,9k Il,boonless no companion OP Prot in IWD. Still unkillable.
The problem was not the bubble...but the Binding Oath+templar's Wrath combo.If these two did not existed in the current form OP would die when cast DP.
It is binding oath combined with the justice tree and templar's wrath massive temp hit point that make a OP immortal.
I was able to permanantly have up 96k temp hit point and cast Binding oath in between.In case B.Oath did not overlap it would chew my temp hit points..not my normal ones.
problem still exists,the changes did not touched the core of the problem.
With a purple DC sigil and a DC ,even after the changes ,Div protector will be 50% up time at least.
Mid tier geared Ops will lose nothing ,the low level ones will take the hit.
Someone needs to test whether OPs can tank orcus with these changes.
Of course they can't.
These nerfs need to come with a class reroll token. No way will I play a Paladin after these changes. Why would anyone want a Paladin in their party over a GF after these changes?
Binding Oath is just like steel defense... except it is an encounter. if you can't tank orcus on a OP with this change then i have no idea how you survive orcus now. Your rotation has not changed at all, you just don't have DP up 100% of the time anymore
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
I tested my 1,9k Il,boonless no companion OP Prot in IWD. Still unkillable.
The problem was not the bubble...but the Binding Oath+templar's Wrath combo.If these two did not existed in the current form OP would die when cast DP.
It is binding oath combined with the justice tree and templar's wrath massive temp hit point that make a OP immortal.
I was able to permanantly have up 96k temp hit point and cast Binding oath in between.In case B.Oath did not overlap it would chew my temp hit points..not my normal ones.
problem still exists,the changes did not touched the core of the problem.
With a purple DC sigil and a DC ,even after the changes ,Div protector will be 50% up time at least.
Mid tier geared Ops will lose nothing ,the low level ones will take the hit.
Someone needs to test whether OPs can tank orcus with these changes.
Of course they can't.
These nerfs need to come with a class reroll token. No way will I play a Paladin after these changes. Why would anyone want a Paladin in their party over a GF after these changes?
Sorry they can, I tested. I ran CN a couple times without using bubble yesterday just to see. I had to stack bane 3 times before going in and get my wraith up real quick. Once shielding strike is up, I just keep bane and templars wraith, I use burning light as well to get bubble and DV, we did not use bubble at all and it went fine. However, I am at 3.9k at the moment which is mostly dual mixed enchants and i have 3x12 bonding so I am not the typical palidan. Of the three runs we did, I went down once in the beginning because of taking to much damage before wraith shielding.
Still, I think the nerf went to far. I tested as well with a dc, counting 1000-2000, I was able to keep bubble up within 6 secs most of the time, however, I have alot of stuff giving me AP and I built around it (including fire set). So its not easy.
My only real problem with these possible changes are that without the paladin and its perma-anything, dungeons are incredibly hard. Coupled with the possible changes to the Lostmauth set They are going to be nigh impossible without BiS and correct combination of powers.
I am a DPS GWF. I pump out good damage, but a lot of it is due to the fact that I can attack a creature with the possibility of some protection from any given tank. There are times however that the tank did not have some protective power on me and then BLAMMO! I was one shotted by the boss.
Example, I was doing castle never and the pally went down. All the aggro turned to me. I ran from the red areas of Orcus and avoided it but his sweeping power is unavoidable. I got one shotted 3 times, once my enchantment kicked in, the second one the Healadin aura kicked in and the third I was dead. All of this in seconds. The whole party wiped after the pally went down within a minute. How can dungeons be so hard! I am not complaining per se, but if all other characters can be one shotted by a boss, with a half pally now, how do we finish.
Another example, in ECC, archers can one shot anyone. We are not weak characters by any means. How can you compete with that? If the powers are going to be reduced then you should find a way to increase the survivability of the other characters. Unfortunately comes the conundrum of High DPS = squishy. To survive, we have to forego some DPS and increase a lot of defense, then the 15 min dungeon becomes the hour long dungeon because of lack of DPS. However, even with a defense of 9000, my other character, the Devoted Paladin goes down like a ton of bricks anyways. DR is 40%.
This means that if you take away so much of the pally power, all other classes suffer. The sheer number of boss hitpoints and the icredible damage outpout of creatures in dungeons, IMO will make the dungeons last a ton longer and people will not want to spend the time to do dungeons anymore and defeats the purpose of the game.
Is there some logic in my thoughts or am I way out in left field?
I do love a challenge, but I really don't want to spend my whole night doing ONE dungeon, and in some instances, not finishing it. We have so much grinding to do anyhow, that I would rather do the grinding than waste my time in the dungeons.
Just my opinion.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Oathbound Paladins will no longer receive a 20% damage buff for 1 second every 20 seconds.
However the removal of the 20% damage buff, even as small as it is, worries me due to the particularly poor damage we deal if not Justice spec.
This is just a bugfix, also being applied to GFs. It was apparently only really noticeable if you watched your power tooltips and saw that every 20 seconds, the numbers went up briefly.
That said, I have no idea if it's going to feel substantially different in practice, but if OPs are going to get a few buffs to make solo questing easier, they should come from intentional changes to powers and not some weird bugged class mechanic that barely anyone even knew about and that you couldn't rely on because of inconsistency.
A good cleric can increase damage resistance too and also reduce the damage of boss attacks. I have, multiple times, on my DC, and with a GF as tank, killed all bosses in CN with no party wipe and GF stays alive (and hardly injured) the whole time. Even after the nerf to Paladins, why can't a paladin tank as well as a GF? To me, the bigger issue is, why choose OP instead of GF in a party? That's something cryptic should think more about. Seems to me, if OP survivability is nerfed, then they should get a buff to offense.
My only real problem with these possible changes are that without the paladin and its perma-anything, dungeons are incredibly hard. Coupled with the possible changes to the Lostmauth set They are going to be nigh impossible without BiS and correct combination of powers.
I am a DPS GWF. I pump out good damage, but a lot of it is due to the fact that I can attack a creature with the possibility of some protection from any given tank. There are times however that the tank did not have some protective power on me and then BLAMMO! I was one shotted by the boss.
Example, I was doing castle never and the pally went down. All the aggro turned to me. I ran from the red areas of Orcus and avoided it but his sweeping power is unavoidable. I got one shotted 3 times, once my enchantment kicked in, the second one the Healadin aura kicked in and the third I was dead. All of this in seconds. The whole party wiped after the pally went down within a minute. How can dungeons be so hard! I am not complaining per se, but if all other characters can be one shotted by a boss, with a half pally now, how do we finish.
Another example, in ECC, archers can one shot anyone. We are not weak characters by any means. How can you compete with that? If the powers are going to be reduced then you should find a way to increase the survivability of the other characters. Unfortunately comes the conundrum of High DPS = squishy. To survive, we have to forego some DPS and increase a lot of defense, then the 15 min dungeon becomes the hour long dungeon because of lack of DPS. However, even with a defense of 9000, my other character, the Devoted Paladin goes down like a ton of bricks anyways. DR is 40%.
This means that if you take away so much of the pally power, all other classes suffer. The sheer number of boss hitpoints and the icredible damage outpout of creatures in dungeons, IMO will make the dungeons last a ton longer and people will not want to spend the time to do dungeons anymore and defeats the purpose of the game.
Is there some logic in my thoughts or am I way out in left field?
I do love a challenge, but I really don't want to spend my whole night doing ONE dungeon, and in some instances, not finishing it. We have so much grinding to do anyhow, that I would rather do the grinding than waste my time in the dungeons.
A good cleric can increase damage resistance too and also reduce the damage of boss attacks. I have, multiple times, on my DC, and with a GF as tank, killed all bosses in CN with no party wipe and GF stays alive (and hardly injured) the whole time. Even after the nerf to Paladins, why can't a paladin tank as well as a GF? To me, the bigger issue is, why choose OP instead of GF in a party? That's something cryptic should think more about. Seems to me, if OP survivability is nerfed, then they should get a buff to offense.
GF has Knight's Valor for example, that added with your buffs and debuffs and the GF's damage reducing skills are able to make the incoming damage just enough to be doable for the rest of the party. OP's has Bane (single target to reduce 30% damage and increase yors by 30% on it .. mainly usable on bosses), but just about nothing else for this purpose, and bane makes no ap, gives no divine call and gives no help with trash mobs, and there are a lot of cases when we have mobs with higher single hit than our HP. Still, a pretty good DC (probably a faithful capped) can keep the party alive near an OP, but not the average ones. So instead of just about killing it's party protect skill they could only reduce it to a level where it performs similarly effective as the GF in those cases.
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
edited April 2016
My opinion is that Op needs better tools to protect the team or gaining agro. Divine protector was too much, but making the power useless is not good also.
My suggestion is that change the power so the OP takes 100% the damage from alies, so if your team is a bunch of brainless static glass cannons, the OP will die fast, even a BIS OP. the problem now is the 80% damage reduction. The duration can be lowered a bit (15 secs for example) but 6 secs is just ridiculous with 1 sec of casting time.
Giving us more divine calls will be great too with agro.
And making the content trivial... I think the bonding stones and active companions are the main problem of making the content trivial. If you are going to balance, balance everything
These nerfs are outrageous and I for 1 am really disappointed I worked really hard on my DC and my bubble pally and they are completely running them to the ground im furious at this and will must likely leave the game soon
so if this is message you want to see I sugjest you adjust the content and make it hard so we can utilize the perma bubble and AP DC build instead of destroying the class, I would rather you tinker with the difficulty of the enemy then be tampering with my Powers and FUN Level, so if you want the content harder make it hard without messing with Classes and making half the community upset in a uproar............ It has been this way for like what a year now, I call for all our current Powers to be grandfathered now before this change can even think about finish, enough is enough.
Post edited by doublea2014 on
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kwsapphireMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 671Arc User
As the Virtuous DC, I seem to get a burst of AP, and then a tick over time. My teammate does not get the initial burst, only the tick over time, and it seems to be less of a tick. So we started with me at 0% AP and him at 2%. By the time I was able to fill my AP bar, his was only at 55%.
I think this is because I've taken the Healing Action feat and pumped more points into Charisma for the AP gain.
Currently I can swap into divine mode, cast Sun Burst 3x, then cast Divine Glow and Bastion of Health, and this gets both my AP and my teammate's to between 45 and 65% depending on how often Cleansing Fire procs. This takes about 6 seconds. On test, executing the same series of powers, my AP bar fills to 42% and my teammate's is only at 15%.
If I significantly slow down the pace that I cast these powers so that the tick over time doesn't overlap, I can get myself to 60-something% and my teammate to 40%. This takes over 30 seconds.
So for my own sake, the AP gain isn't terrible, it's only nerfed to about 60% of its current value on live, which is okay for me. However, the impact to my teammates is so minimal as to be unnoticable when so overshadowed by their own AP gain.
On the healing side of things, my Virtuous DC casts Bastion of Health while at about 10% health, and slowly ticks up to about 20% health over the course of several seconds. This is my most powerful heal.
By comparison, using my Faithful cleric specced into Gift of Haste on the test server, I can fill my own AP bar to 42% and my teammate's to 24% with those same powers, albeit going slowly. However, Bastion of Health heals for a far larger amount in a much shorter amount of time, making the heals substantially more effective.
For the visually inclined, here's a table of the above results:
Now, I could (in theory) adjust my play style so that I execute an encounter power, then cast a couple of at-wills while the AP ticks up, then cast another encounter, and go back and forth between that way. This would max out the AP gain. However, this is unrealistic in combat. The AP Gain powers (whether Virtuous or Faithful) are also heals, and I often have to fire them off in rapid succession in order to keep a party healthy. Or at least, I must do so as a Virtuous DC, because my heals give so much less health than Faithful.
To put it in perspective, the OP's intercept power grants 8% AP, plus 4% for enemy hit. So basically when the OP pops into combat, he's going to get more AP from that intercept power than I can grant executing three encounter powers (one of which is cast three times in divine mode).
If I drastically slow down my casting time, the AP gain seems worth it. But slowing down the casting time gimps the overall play style, and is unrealistic.
So looks like I'm going Faithful and Renegade trees after all!
I tested my 1,9k Il,boonless no companion OP Prot in IWD. Still unkillable.
The problem was not the bubble...but the Binding Oath+templar's Wrath combo.If these two did not existed in the current form OP would die when cast DP.
It is binding oath combined with the justice tree and templar's wrath massive temp hit point that make a OP immortal.
I was able to permanantly have up 96k temp hit point and cast Binding oath in between.In case B.Oath did not overlap it would chew my temp hit points..not my normal ones.
problem still exists,the changes did not touched the core of the problem.
With a purple DC sigil and a DC ,even after the changes ,Div protector will be 50% up time at least.
Mid tier geared Ops will lose nothing ,the low level ones will take the hit.
Oh, I'm so glad for you. But you know, if you want to go pvp or to an epic dungeon, you have to offer something to your GROUP. Paladins offered immortality to other party members, GFs offer huge damage boost and better aggro. What's the point in being immortal if you can't hold aggro, your party fights mobs for too long and in pvp you'll never ever be able to deal as much damage as GF (I've seen GF one-shot a BiS TR that was considered one of the best TRs on our server and I bet no other class except TR would have been able to do that). As a pve TR I'd rather go with GF and choose dps over immortality. And now GFs are still good for buffing group, they can use knight's valor to protect their party and they can hold aggro better. And paladins are... immortal. How amazing for them. I bet there'll be so many people who'll invite them in dungeons.
Oh, I'm so glad for you. But you know, if you want to go pvp or to an epic dungeon, you have to offer something to your GROUP. Paladins offered immortality to other party members, GFs offer huge damage boost and better aggro. What's the point in being immortal if you can't hold aggro, your party fights mobs for too long and in pvp you'll never ever be able to deal as much damage as GF (I've seen GF one-shot a BiS TR that was considered one of the best TRs on our server and I bet no other class except TR would have been able to do that). As a pve TR I'd rather go with GF and choose dps over immortality. And now GFs are still good for buffing group, they can use knight's valor to protect their party and they can hold aggro better. And paladins are... immortal. How amazing for them. I bet there'll be so many people who'll invite them in dungeons.
The primary function of a PvP paladin is to be immortal. To always be on a node so that it takes multiple people to wrest it from him, which gives the rest of his team the numerical advantage on the other nodes. Bubble immortality for the rest of the party was just a convenience.
Let's doom talk for a while here... Do you guys remember being a new lvl 70? Looking for grp in PE and ending up solo qing? You were thankful whenever a cleric or a pally joined your grp, and sometimes you failed when you didn't have both of them.
With this nerfs the solo qs will practically die, 6 secs bubbles that may end up killing the pally, DCs shields that won't protect you from most enemies first hit, you will need a team of 2.5k IL+ to get through a T1?! A new level 70 will never find group.
People getting less and less salvage thx for the solo qs being dead and the increase in dungeon clear times, Zen going up and up since is the only way to upgrade your character (looking at you wards!), and the term Pay to Win becomes something like a Pay to Survive, lol. I hope I'm wrong with all this but kind of makes sense to me.
Comments
Know you how much it costs? Replacement pieces of equipment ? It's not just the cost of training my character. How many people can afford to drop a few kk AD ? Because of changes GoH..
Snail, burning set, all bis things and you saying OP will be useless piece of s after changes? Tanks a)taking aggro b)taking damage from party members. You even nerfing shield... WTF is wrong with you. GFs kv is a) encounter b)has basically no cooldown, since no kv means GF died. But SM tacticians hardly even die... IV players are another story.
For my Bulwark spec OP these changes are irrelevant for solo play. I'll just run Judgement as always. With 3 points in Heroism I cannot quite cycle it constantly, but its not a lot of down time even with the weak hits I take in solo play.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
for example: unbreakble devotion, fire of the gods, divine interversion, shield fo the divine, geas, warding flare...
basicly half of DC feats have similar "mechanics" to lostmouth set whiich is based on your weaapon damage
Still unkillable.
The problem was not the bubble...but the Binding Oath+templar's Wrath combo.If these two did not existed in the current form OP would die when cast DP.
It is binding oath combined with the justice tree and templar's wrath massive temp hit point that make a OP immortal.
I was able to permanantly have up 96k temp hit point and cast Binding oath in between.In case B.Oath did not overlap it would chew my temp hit points..not my normal ones.
problem still exists,the changes did not touched the core of the problem.
With a purple DC sigil and a DC ,even after the changes ,Div protector will be 50% up time at least.
Mid tier geared Ops will lose nothing ,the low level ones will take the hit.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
These nerfs need to come with a class reroll token. No way will I play a Paladin after these changes. Why would anyone want a Paladin in their party over a GF after these changes?
With the weakening of bubbles for 10 seconds agree. Sorry for my english
I'm pretty happy with where Heroism sits now, if nothing else changes it will be a solid power for use in dungeons (and presumably remain useful in PvP).
In comparison I would say its time to throw Divine Protector out and make it something else. The tiny window of immunity it grants to damage is useless. Sure you could use it in very specific fights to protect the party against very specific things (by that I pretty much mean Orcus, because there is no certainty you will have it available in eDemo), but the chances its even on your bar with these changes are minimal. Nearly every fight you want it, it is unreliable for one reason or another (AP drain, Madness, CC effects being the main causes).
At this point I think it would be better to scratch Divine Protector entirely and come up with something else, and while you are at it come up with something to replace Banishment and Absolution that might be worth slotting.
Given that you have nuked Divine Protector effectively I also have to repeat the need to address our DPS and Agro so that we can tank effectively. Keeping in mind that not everyone is playing down the Justice line.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Still, I think the nerf went to far. I tested as well with a dc, counting 1000-2000, I was able to keep bubble up within 6 secs most of the time, however, I have alot of stuff giving me AP and I built around it (including fire set). So its not easy.
I am a DPS GWF. I pump out good damage, but a lot of it is due to the fact that I can attack a creature with the possibility of some protection from any given tank. There are times however that the tank did not have some protective power on me and then BLAMMO! I was one shotted by the boss.
Example, I was doing castle never and the pally went down. All the aggro turned to me. I ran from the red areas of Orcus and avoided it but his sweeping power is unavoidable. I got one shotted 3 times, once my enchantment kicked in, the second one the Healadin aura kicked in and the third I was dead. All of this in seconds. The whole party wiped after the pally went down within a minute. How can dungeons be so hard! I am not complaining per se, but if all other characters can be one shotted by a boss, with a half pally now, how do we finish.
Another example, in ECC, archers can one shot anyone. We are not weak characters by any means. How can you compete with that? If the powers are going to be reduced then you should find a way to increase the survivability of the other characters. Unfortunately comes the conundrum of High DPS = squishy. To survive, we have to forego some DPS and increase a lot of defense, then the 15 min dungeon becomes the hour long dungeon because of lack of DPS. However, even with a defense of 9000, my other character, the Devoted Paladin goes down like a ton of bricks anyways. DR is 40%.
This means that if you take away so much of the pally power, all other classes suffer. The sheer number of boss hitpoints and the icredible damage outpout of creatures in dungeons, IMO will make the dungeons last a ton longer and people will not want to spend the time to do dungeons anymore and defeats the purpose of the game.
Is there some logic in my thoughts or am I way out in left field?
I do love a challenge, but I really don't want to spend my whole night doing ONE dungeon, and in some instances, not finishing it. We have so much grinding to do anyhow, that I would rather do the grinding than waste my time in the dungeons.
Just my opinion.
That said, I have no idea if it's going to feel substantially different in practice, but if OPs are going to get a few buffs to make solo questing easier, they should come from intentional changes to powers and not some weird bugged class mechanic that barely anyone even knew about and that you couldn't rely on because of inconsistency.
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I have, multiple times, on my DC, and with a GF as tank, killed all bosses in CN with no party wipe and GF stays alive (and hardly injured) the whole time. Even after the nerf to Paladins, why can't a paladin tank as well as a GF? To me, the bigger issue is, why choose OP instead of GF in a party? That's something cryptic should think more about. Seems to me, if OP survivability is nerfed, then they should get a buff to offense.
OP's has Bane (single target to reduce 30% damage and increase yors by 30% on it .. mainly usable on bosses), but just about nothing else for this purpose, and bane makes no ap, gives no divine call and gives no help with trash mobs, and there are a lot of cases when we have mobs with higher single hit than our HP.
Still, a pretty good DC (probably a faithful capped) can keep the party alive near an OP, but not the average ones.
So instead of just about killing it's party protect skill they could only reduce it to a level where it performs similarly effective as the GF in those cases.
My suggestion is that change the power so the OP takes 100% the damage from alies, so if your team is a bunch of brainless static glass cannons, the OP will die fast, even a BIS OP. the problem now is the 80% damage reduction. The duration can be lowered a bit (15 secs for example) but 6 secs is just ridiculous with 1 sec of casting time.
Giving us more divine calls will be great too with agro.
And making the content trivial... I think the bonding stones and active companions are the main problem of making the content trivial. If you are going to balance, balance everything
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I think this is because I've taken the Healing Action feat and pumped more points into Charisma for the AP gain.
Currently I can swap into divine mode, cast Sun Burst 3x, then cast Divine Glow and Bastion of Health, and this gets both my AP and my teammate's to between 45 and 65% depending on how often Cleansing Fire procs. This takes about 6 seconds. On test, executing the same series of powers, my AP bar fills to 42% and my teammate's is only at 15%.
If I significantly slow down the pace that I cast these powers so that the tick over time doesn't overlap, I can get myself to 60-something% and my teammate to 40%. This takes over 30 seconds.
So for my own sake, the AP gain isn't terrible, it's only nerfed to about 60% of its current value on live, which is okay for me. However, the impact to my teammates is so minimal as to be unnoticable when so overshadowed by their own AP gain.
On the healing side of things, my Virtuous DC casts Bastion of Health while at about 10% health, and slowly ticks up to about 20% health over the course of several seconds. This is my most powerful heal.
By comparison, using my Faithful cleric specced into Gift of Haste on the test server, I can fill my own AP bar to 42% and my teammate's to 24% with those same powers, albeit going slowly. However, Bastion of Health heals for a far larger amount in a much shorter amount of time, making the heals substantially more effective.
For the visually inclined, here's a table of the above results:
Now, I could (in theory) adjust my play style so that I execute an encounter power, then cast a couple of at-wills while the AP ticks up, then cast another encounter, and go back and forth between that way. This would max out the AP gain. However, this is unrealistic in combat. The AP Gain powers (whether Virtuous or Faithful) are also heals, and I often have to fire them off in rapid succession in order to keep a party healthy. Or at least, I must do so as a Virtuous DC, because my heals give so much less health than Faithful.
To put it in perspective, the OP's intercept power grants 8% AP, plus 4% for enemy hit. So basically when the OP pops into combat, he's going to get more AP from that intercept power than I can grant executing three encounter powers (one of which is cast three times in divine mode).
If I drastically slow down my casting time, the AP gain seems worth it. But slowing down the casting time gimps the overall play style, and is unrealistic.
So looks like I'm going Faithful and Renegade trees after all!
And now GFs are still good for buffing group, they can use knight's valor to protect their party and they can hold aggro better. And paladins are... immortal. How amazing for them. I bet there'll be so many people who'll invite them in dungeons.
With this nerfs the solo qs will practically die, 6 secs bubbles that may end up killing the pally, DCs shields that won't protect you from most enemies first hit, you will need a team of 2.5k IL+ to get through a T1?! A new level 70 will never find group.
People getting less and less salvage thx for the solo qs being dead and the increase in dungeon clear times, Zen going up and up since is the only way to upgrade your character (looking at you wards!), and the term Pay to Win becomes something like a Pay to Survive, lol. I hope I'm wrong with all this but kind of makes sense to me.