Oathbound Paladin & Devoted Cleric changes

ghoulz66 · April 2016

Leaving GFs with their 50-80%+ damage buff for the party + KV is pretty much HAMSTER over OPs tank. What do they offer other than tanking a boss?

OP healer can take hits, but doesn't matter much if the party is dead around you. The DC can provide more protection and more damage buffs as well. Same as the GF, what do OP healers offer other than just healing? You can't heal what's already dead.

wildfirede · April 2016

As a paladin, me likes

make it require more than 2 brain cells and pressing 1.

scathias · April 2016

ghoulz66 said:
Leaving GFs with their 50-80%+ damage buff for the party + KV is pretty much HAMSTER over OPs tank. What do they offer other than tanking a boss?

OP healer can take hits, but doesn't matter much if the party is dead around you. The DC can provide more protection and more damage buffs as well. Same as the GF, what do OP healers offer other than just healing? You can't heal what's already dead.

You are aware that OP tanks have other tools that they can use for tanking besides Divine Protection right? Now they just have to use them

rapo973 · April 2016

eliybeats said:
I hope that this is true. While I love playing my DC I just dislike the fact that Everyone wants a Haste DC. It gets boring to grant haste and spam Sunburst. It gets boring to Debuff. I feel like while it will help the DC become a healer again in this game, I feel like the demand for a Haste DC could be slightly greater in certain situations. While the Faithful is already a great clutch healer, an healing op could still be in greater demand than it. Maybe I'm wrong. Is the a way to slightly buff the Faithful tree of the devoted cleric? Or maybe some of it's passive abilities? Maybe that is a bit too much to ask. Just wanted to know

Not everyone wants a haste dc: haste DCs are (were?) requested by OPs who want the perma bubble.Period. Rigtheous clerics are in better position now and these changes make the righteous the real and probably the only end-target in PvE, making the 2 remaining paths marginal. This is not good: a path has been killed to solve a short term problem, even if relevant, showing a lack of vision and systemic view. For this reason, I suggest to increase the effectivness of unbreakable devotion to counterbalance the GoH nerf (currently the UD mitigation is ridiculous when compared against the damage made by trash mobs even in T1 dungeons, warding flare the same) :this would be appreciated both in PvP and in PvE. The virtuous would become a champion in mitigation while the righteous would be the champion in buffing. Cleansing fire could be reworked in this direction, providing another source of mitigation instead of proccing another GoH/heal source.
High AP gain has a number of consequence in PvP as well, but whoever believes that this is going to fix the PvP issues is braineless as a minimun. It's true the opposite: the DC has less options to be competitve and the so called "immortal" PvP cleric is still untouched (and I'm happy about it otherwise you can delete the cleric from pvp) . I'm a virtuous DC, but fortunately I haven't built up my toon around GoH only: I already see a good way to generate my AP quite fast, while the party will need a bit more.
High-end teams don't need big heals and probably nothing will change in the future for them: the game already provides many sources for self-healing, from lifesteal to heal bonuses coming from mounts (and other sources).
Low IL players are those one who will pay the higher price. If a party needs heals, be aware that an OP devotion heals better than a cleric, even a tempt warlock heals better than a cleric and both provide more damages.

While the DC is nerfed again, a number of well knowm bugs are still unsolved (ex: encounters not procing any enchantments). Instead of fixing divinity DG, they "fixed" the tooltip: zero effort, max result.

ghoulz66 · April 2016

scathias said:

ghoulz66 said:
Leaving GFs with their 50-80%+ damage buff for the party + KV is pretty much HAMSTER over OPs tank. What do they offer other than tanking a boss?

OP healer can take hits, but doesn't matter much if the party is dead around you. The DC can provide more protection and more damage buffs as well. Same as the GF, what do OP healers offer other than just healing? You can't heal what's already dead.
You are aware that OP tanks have other tools that they can use for tanking besides Divine Protection right? Now they just have to use them

Tanking, for themselves. In that regard the GF can do just the same thing. Only difference, is that the GF can double the party's damage. Does that sound fair?

scathias · April 2016

OP has aura of courage, which is not an insignificant amount of damage. Aura of wisdom, Aura Gifts (the feat), bane. lots of options. GF is now more on par with OP. the life of the protector OP is not over

cambo1682 · April 2016

drakenmonk said:
Ok, I admit that palidans needed a nerf, but as always now you took it too far. How can you ever think to have a balanced game if you always over due stuff one way or another. You need to cut the nerfs in half. Instead of having 20s time, a 10 second time is what is needed, the 50% is fine. But something that last only 6s in a game that is riddled with lag is useless.

+1 I play a Pally occasionally when it's needed in guild runs, I play all classes in fact. You may think that you are taking the 'smart' path in your nerfs by going deep and playing the "we can buff it later we're sorry we messed up (again)" card every time you come on here, but it's getting a bit tired. Tuning is one thing, destroying a key mechanic of a class is entirely another. This will completely change how they are played, maybe that's a good thing, maybe not. But from a business standpoint, I don't think you guys realize that people tend to run out of steam to pour resources and time into their favorite class when you jack them around so often and severely. And I am personally tired of seeing friends bugger off every time you mess around with stuff, but I can't blame them. It took 14 months for your Lostmauth 'fix' to be announced. Clearly there can be no trust that you guys will ever get these things right. Maybe ask yourselves if people are having fun instead. If they are, cash will come.

mflp · April 2016

Redece all stats module 2 and adapt the class.....

bitt3rnightmar3 · April 2016

strumslinger said:
Please remember this is just for Preview, which is a test server. As always, nothing is set in stone and may change when it hits live.

We'll just have to see then won't we.

Let me see if I understand something- It will provide 5% AP gain over 5 seconds and a new heal over time will refresh the duration? So that means 1% every 1 second?

Feats: Gift of Haste: Now grants AP over 5 seconds, instead of instantly. If you are already affected by Gift of Haste, having it applied to you again will refresh the duration.

rapo973 · April 2016

bitt3rnightmar3 said:

Let me see if I understand something- It will provide 5% AP gain over 5 seconds and a new heal over time will refresh the duration? So that means 1% every 1 second?

Correct: now let's see how this is implemented because there are other elements influencing the overall effect of GoH.

fastrean1 · April 2016

Why nerf "Shield of Faith"? Never feel it even working before, even with -50% reduce damage, people still got 1 shot.

scathias · April 2016

metalldjt said:
please take a look at the encounter Binding oath , since i've seen alot of paladins spammin that encounter like it doesn't have a cooldown at all, and also the Daily Heroism, and please do someth about the paladin temporary hitpoints, the temporary hitpoints should be consumed while they are in the Bubble or havin binding oath up.

go reread the notes on this. heroism active time is reduced.

fastrean1 · April 2016

ghoulz66 said:
Besides, that's real fair. The DC's AS is 40% DR and the DC provides more damage buffs than the heal OP.

heal OP have no party buffs, just heal heal heal

wildfirede · April 2016

just, please check how paladin will be aggro wise, and if needed slap +300% threat on radiant else as said it was about time.

beckylunatic · April 2016

scathias said:

metalldjt said:
please take a look at the encounter Binding oath , since i've seen alot of paladins spammin that encounter like it doesn't have a cooldown at all, and also the Daily Heroism, and please do someth about the paladin temporary hitpoints, the temporary hitpoints should be consumed while they are in the Bubble or havin binding oath up.
go reread the notes on this. heroism active time is reduced.

And other changes should be addressing 0-cooldown-ever on encounters.

weaver936 · April 2016

eliybeats said:
I hope that this is true. While I love playing my DC I just dislike the fact that Everyone wants a Haste DC. It gets boring to grant haste and spam Sunburst. It gets boring to Debuff. I feel like while it will help the DC become a healer again in this game, I feel like the demand for a Haste DC could be slightly greater in certain situations. While the Faithful is already a great clutch healer, an healing op could still be in greater demand than it. Maybe I'm wrong. Is the a way to slightly buff the Faithful tree of the devoted cleric? Or maybe some of it's passive abilities? Maybe that is a bit too much to ask. Just wanted to know

I main a Buff/Debuff AP Gain DC... I haven't had trouble keeping my team alive since I came back in late Mod 6... lol. No reason to have to go "full heals" with a DC... if your team is decent.

mamalion1234 · April 2016

fastrean1 said:

ghoulz66 said:
Besides, that's real fair. The DC's AS is 40% DR and the DC provides more damage buffs than the heal OP.
heal OP have no party buffs, just heal heal heal

aura of courace bane aura of wisdom thanks.

ashnvf · April 2016

You guys are a bunch of idiots. DP down from 20 to 6 seconds? This makes the class absolutely worthless. OPs have HAMSTER DPS, why on earth would anyone play one now over a GF? Why would anyone want one in a group over a GF? Since there is simply no reason whatsoever, that should tell you that you went way overboard.

rapo973 · April 2016

Tested GoH.
Work as described: 5% over 5 seconds. Now a rigtheous with GoH works +/- as well as a virtuous with this change: no need to have a virtuous dc anymore.
Btw there was another DC with GoH close to me: GoH stacks (2x on the GoH icon).
Now improve Unbreakable devotion and - why not - rework cleansing fire to provide mitigation instead of GoH\Heals to make this path viable again.

ghoulz66 · April 2016

mamalion1234 said:

fastrean1 said:

ghoulz66 said:
Besides, that's real fair. The DC's AS is 40% DR and the DC provides more damage buffs than the heal OP.
heal OP have no party buffs, just heal heal heal
aura of courace bane aura of wisdom thanks.

Bane is single target, and courage won't be helping much if everyone is dead. Not sure many players will survive one shots now in T2s.

eliybeats · April 2016

rapo973 said:

eliybeats said:
I hope that this is true. While I love playing my DC I just dislike the fact that Everyone wants a Haste DC. It gets boring to grant haste and spam Sunburst. It gets boring to Debuff. I feel like while it will help the DC become a healer again in this game, I feel like the demand for a Haste DC could be slightly greater in certain situations. While the Faithful is already a great clutch healer, an healing op could still be in greater demand than it. Maybe I'm wrong. Is the a way to slightly buff the Faithful tree of the devoted cleric? Or maybe some of it's passive abilities? Maybe that is a bit too much to ask. Just wanted to know
Not everyone wants a haste dc: haste DCs are (were?) requested by OPs who want the perma bubble.Period. Rigtheous clerics are in better position now and these changes make the righteous the real and probably the only end-target in PvE, making the 2 remaining paths marginal. This is not good: a path has been killed to solve a short term problem, even if relevant, showing a lack of vision and systemic view. For this reason, I suggest to increase the effectivness of unbreakable devotion to counterbalance the GoH nerf (currently the UD mitigation is ridiculous when compared against the damage made by trash mobs even in T1 dungeons, warding flare the same) :this would be appreciated both in PvP and in PvE. The virtuous would become a champion in mitigation while the righteous would be the champion in buffing. Cleansing fire could be reworked in this direction, providing another source of mitigation instead of proccing another GoH/heal source.
High AP gain has a number of consequence in PvP as well, but whoever believes that this is going to fix the PvP issues is braineless as a minimun. It's true the opposite: the DC has less options to be competitve and the so called "immortal" PvP cleric is still untouched (and I'm happy about it otherwise you can delete the cleric from pvp) . I'm a virtuous DC, but fortunately I haven't built up my toon around GoH only: I already see a good way to generate my AP quite fast, while the party will need a bit more.
High-end teams don't need big heals and probably nothing will change in the future for them: the game already provides many sources for self-healing, from lifesteal to heal bonuses coming from mounts (and other sources).
Low IL players are those one who will pay the higher price. If a party needs heals, be aware that an OP devotion heals better than a cleric, even a tempt warlock heals better than a cleric and both provide more damages.

While the DC is nerfed again, a number of well knowm bugs are still unsolved (ex: encounters not procing any enchantments). Instead of fixing divinity DG, they "fixed" the tooltip: zero effort, max result.

A path has been killed? Virtuous was already a good path before the Gift of Hast feat was even brought into it, but I agree more damage mitigation would make it even more nice. Faithful might have been killed long ago once they created the Gift of Hate feat. Which is why I'm requesting a buff to the dc in the Faithful tree or just dc healing period. We have the buffs/ Debuffs which is good, but why must one tree simply be treated like trash and overlooked because the other is better than it. Whatever happened to real balance. I now know how the Archer Hunter Ranger feels.

engineerofevil · April 2016

Many of you are of happy the Bubble was destroyed to the ground, but they did not stop there, they pretty much took the OP out of PVP altogether. They took Heroism out too, now a paladin is close to useless. When you guys scream nerf, Cryptic will give it to you, and they did. Good job people.

rapo973 · April 2016

royinever said:

for the ap dc i think it was must to stop those 4 sec dailies

Correct: to stop 4sec dailies the virtuous path is now destroyed with no value if other changes are not made. Go righteous and take GoH if needed.
GoH + big buffs = great.
2 DC paths in the trash (PvE) = no real design behind this nerf.

ghoulz66 · April 2016

engineerofevil said:
Many of you are of happy the Bubble was destroyed to the ground, but they did not stop there, they pretty much took the OP out of PVP altogether. They took Heroism out too, now a paladin is close to useless. When you guys scream nerf, Cryptic will give it to you, and they did. Good job people.

I didn't see any reason to nerf heroism to hell. Buff yourself, that's nice. It doesn't save your party.

I see a huge problem here if GFs are allowed to freely get full AP every moment and spam dailies while the OP can't.

rbroz · April 2016

The nerf to Divine Protector is a bit excessive. 20 secs all the way to 6 secs? That coupled with the Shield of Faith change will pretty much make the Pally less desirable in groups. 10 to 12 secs would be a good place to start with Divine Protector.

eliybeats · April 2016

weaver936 said:

eliybeats said:
I hope that this is true. While I love playing my DC I just dislike the fact that Everyone wants a Haste DC. It gets boring to grant haste and spam Sunburst. It gets boring to Debuff. I feel like while it will help the DC become a healer again in this game, I feel like the demand for a Haste DC could be slightly greater in certain situations. While the Faithful is already a great clutch healer, an healing op could still be in greater demand than it. Maybe I'm wrong. Is the a way to slightly buff the Faithful tree of the devoted cleric? Or maybe some of it's passive abilities? Maybe that is a bit too much to ask. Just wanted to know
I main a Buff/Debuff AP Gain DC... I haven't had trouble keeping my team alive since I came back in late Mod 6... lol. No reason to have to go "full heals" with a DC... if your team is decent.

True. Which is very good for premades. I'm just saying why does there only have to be one way to play one class.. I have an ap cleric and I can't see how the class is fun anymore. I find myself respeccing to righteous and faithful more often just to enjoy it more. I came back from mod 5 to the previous mod a few months back and while I did like the ap gain at first, the DC in general has become a lazy class because of the changes. No need to heal when there's a pally, just support the team with ap and spam constant dailies. Press 1, sun burst a couple of times, redo it again, etc. It's like why play to become better if this is all I have to do.

rapo973 · April 2016

eliybeats said:

A path has been killed? Virtuous was already a good path before the Gift of Hast feat was even brought into it, but I agree more damage mitigation would make it even more nice. Faithful might have been killed long ago once they created the Gift of Hate feat. Which is why I'm requesting a buff to the dc in the Faithful tree or just dc healing period.

Without taking heals into account, go righteous, take the first 3 feats from the virtuous and you get what you're asking for and even more: great buff, good dps, nice AP gain, decent heals.
Faithfull is still valuable in PvP.

daniloslv · April 2016

These are great news! Thanks Devs for finally taking action on these issues.

My mains are a Bullwark Palladin and an Opressor Control Wizard.

The changes to daily wont affect my Bullwark. I can even tank Orcus with no Bubble and have zero problem.
And maybe CC can be actually useful now. Lets see how that will work for my Opressor...

eliybeats · April 2016

rapo973 said:

eliybeats said:

A path has been killed? Virtuous was already a good path before the Gift of Hast feat was even brought into it, but I agree more damage mitigation would make it even more nice. Faithful might have been killed long ago once they created the Gift of Hate feat. Which is why I'm requesting a buff to the dc in the Faithful tree or just dc healing period.
Without taking heals into account, go righteous, take the first 3 feats from the virtuous and you get what you're asking for and even more: great buff, good dps, nice AP gain, decent heals.
Faithfull is still valuable in PvP.

Righteous shoudn't be the only path to take is what I'm saying. Righteous is a beast and I love it for dps and debuffing which is cool, but that's why I have multiple chars. I personally don't care for dmg on my cleric. I just want a really great healer but it sucks that I can't even heal now. I might as well make a healing Paladin regardless of all the time and effort I spent into my cleric. Yes Virtuous is nice but maybe if it wasn't played so lazily I could accept it. Maybe at least provide dmg mitigation for both Virtuous and Faithful. That I could maybe see. Maybe when I'm 3k+ I'll stick with righteous but as far a now I feel like there are no real options for the dc except for what the daily spamming classes along with the pally wants. Maybe I'm just a little stubborn, I could really see Righteous path with Virtuous feats, but still, the point is, I shouldn't have to conform to what everyone else is doing to be a great player or to make it a great class.

scathias · April 2016

eliybeats said:

rapo973 said:

eliybeats said:

A path has been killed? Virtuous was already a good path before the Gift of Hast feat was even brought into it, but I agree more damage mitigation would make it even more nice. Faithful might have been killed long ago once they created the Gift of Hate feat. Which is why I'm requesting a buff to the dc in the Faithful tree or just dc healing period.
Without taking heals into account, go righteous, take the first 3 feats from the virtuous and you get what you're asking for and even more: great buff, good dps, nice AP gain, decent heals.
Faithfull is still valuable in PvP.
Righteous shoudn't be the only path to take is what I'm saying. Righteous is a beast and I love it for dps and debuffing which is cool, but that's why I have multiple chars. I personally don't care for dmg on my cleric. I just want a really great healer but it sucks that I can't even heal now. I might as well make a healing Paladin regardless of all the time and effort I spent into my cleric. Yes Virtuous is nice but maybe if it wasn't played so lazily I could accept it. Maybe at least provide dmg mitigation for both Virtuous and Faithful. That I could maybe see. Maybe when I'm 3k+ I'll stick with righteous but as far a now I feel like there are no real options for the dc except for what the daily spamming classes along with the pally wants. Maybe I'm just a little stubborn, I could really see Righteous path with Virtuous feats, but still, the point is, I shouldn't have to conform to what everyone else is doing to be a great player or to make it a great class.

What exactly is wrong for faithful as a healing DC? you have damage mitigation from a number of available skills, and you save the party from 1 shots with the faithful capstone

Oathbound Paladin & Devoted Cleric changes

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