I don't see the point in nerfing everything that others have spent time or money upgrading. I think the game should provide a bigger challenge and upgrade equally other sets.
one thing that i would say, we will all laugh at this thread when module 9 comes with more power creeps, more promises to class balance, yeeeey. ?
we will beg for the days that companions were working in PVP we will beg for the days when the cowardice and ambush rings were brought and we will beg for the days on how good was LOL set. but until then let's have some fun waiting for module9.
I don't see the point in nerfing everything that others have spent time or money upgrading. I think the game should provide a bigger challenge and upgrade equally other sets.
How worse could things get? ... that´s what all said before mod 6... tiamat/Lifesteal/SH Boons/rings/axebeakmounts/companion madness/multiproccing bondings/ but what really stands out is .... lolset, for such a long period it "disbalances this hole game" nothing left a mark like this set
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Yes
I Have seen comments like time and astral diamonds spended to upgrade lostmauth. For many months you already got your ad back for that cost. For a great weapon fighter is no longer available and at the same time viable the avatar of war set. MAybe that random great weapon fighter payed the set 10 m ad. PERsonal i payed the black ice beholder 4 million astral diamonds after 10 days lostmauth set was the overpowered set( broken) i should cry because i payed 4 million the beholder ? No i will not i will live. sometimes i buy overprice sometimes i buy very cheap and sometimes i buy normal price.
YOU say time and money invested upgrade lostmauth ? What about the elemental evil weapons ? even in double rp you still put rp for 57 to 60. SO when you dont have problem with that why you have problem with lostmauth? go in double rp and drop other set inside it . TIME and money shouldnt be argument when a set is broken because if that counts as argument then give to control wizard renegade back the 250% weapon damage on abyss of chaos and multiproc, give back old intimidation on great weapon fighter and make again the deep gash to able to critical , give back critical storm spell on control wizard.
so we run 2xelol, 1x eGWD and one edemo in the sum we experienced elol: a 3k CW using stormspell+lolset deals tons of damage, no clue what it is without that set, 30% less at least a 3,4k GWF did double to triple damage (running ahead) a 3,1k temptation warlock did about 1/3 less in elol than a CW, hard to say since mobs die in seconds, no fury or damnation to compare eGWD: no GWF on board, CW killed most stuff by lolset+stormspell procs at a two-pull-run, very funny (thy to our guildy) temptation did about 1/3 less than a furylock, CW far ahead 80 mio+ (46-64-87mio about that in the end), can´t exactly tell if fury did better at endboss edemo: again CW with stormspell+lolset far ahead, fury warlock couldn´t head up until he slotted ... iliabruenset in my case, a disaster having all love from demorrgorgon from healing aggro, no tank on board (no, the pally didn´t tank, he run away I really want to know how you are going to get valid resulty by runing elol? T2 would be more valid in case no broken mechanics like puppet or 11 mio hits from morderous flame come into account I am temptation-PVP skilled, like in my posted build, but I think its sufficient that way in comparison to PVE dps-builds
What we could see is a completely broken set (lolset) doing crazy things all time especially with some classes, making it near impossible to balance classes that way so in case cryptic is willing to balance arround such silly stuff, I am sure they will do no good
cw skyrocket damage with the conduit of ice proc 6 times the lostmauth additional hit ( dot shouldnt proc more than one time ).
I don't see the point in nerfing everything that others have spent time or money upgrading. I think the game should provide a bigger challenge and upgrade equally other sets.
one thing that i would say, we will all laugh at this thread when module 9 comes with more power creeps, more promises to class balance, yeeeey. ?
we will beg for the days that companions were working in PVP we will beg for the days when the cowardice and ambush rings were brought and we will beg for the days on how good was LOL set. but until then let's have some fun waiting for module9.
Right. Mod 6 flashbacks.
The lost set will get the same treatment as all the other OP sets in the past did, die of obsolesce because of the inevitable goal-post-move. How many DC's you see wearing the High Profit, or GWF's wearing the Avatar or War, GF's and the Timeless Hero? Their buffs are still there, the problem is the stats didn't scale. Stats from gear are everything now.
Why would NWO change it now and upset 67% of this poll (and potentially close to that ratio of non-voting players), when they can add a new set that's just attractive enough to make the lost set refinement points in mod9? It's worked in the past. Why change the formula?
I'm a GF tank. Not a DPS class. But I recognize how much time and effort the DPS classes have put into this set. To change it now, this late in the set's service-life, seems very harsh to dedicated players. From what I've seen in this game, a balance is never balanced. Scourge Warlocks. Nerfing lifesteal then adding godly OPs to own PvP for 3 mods. Leadership. NWO doesn't gracefully adjust anything. They slap it with a 9 ton hammer. Be careful what you wish for. We've all seen, time again, the fix being worse then the problem. New mounts with massive arm pen (where's all the outcry for that?), new pets with amazing buffs (extra hit on non-crit, seriously!?), pvp companions. I don't see the lost set as something that should, all over a sudden, get tossed to the top of the priority list, not after 3 mods of life already. There's lots of other things to swing flaming pitchforks over, especially in the neglected bugs forum.
0
lukejones77Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
You simply can't call out for a Lostmauth nerf as an isolated question.
There are 2 (optionally3) important balancing acts to perform: 1) Balance classes against each other for success against content (PvE relevance of classes) 2) Balance parties against content (PvE challenge interesting) 3) [Optional] Balance classes against each other for fighting each other (PvP)
Personally I call PvP optional, because I think it's the one to let go, as it just becomes too hard. I refuse to PvP anymore, but perhaps it can succeed by getting an even more independent rule set.
I know many see a Lostmauth as the way to get the "out of control DPS class" under control, but it's more complicated than that. The set is also the backbone of every other class struggling to be DPS relevant, despite the that that (due to the belt), it was intended for a fairly specific class. Additionally, many have poured much time and resource into an entire build round it.
So, what do you hope to achieve by nerfing Lostmauth? Control a runaway DPS class? Make the PvE content more challenging? Magic bullet for both? Are you sure that the adjustment wouldn't effect the struggling DPS classes more than it would effect a DPS dominant class that outperforms others despite a 1K less gear score? No. What we really need is more challenge in our content, and there's nowhere near enough thought here on where we would be after nerfing a Lostmauth nerf.
Here's the rub: Right now most anybody (class) can still reasonably get a run, because the content is easy enough to beat. Everyone gets to play. You make the content challenging enough, but leave massive advantage with a favored DPS class, and the game gets nasty pretty quickly. Long time players that can think back to when content was challenging and classes imbalanced, will know what I mean - if you were on the receiving end of it.
So, I won't vote on a massive game changing proposal, where the effects aren't properly understood. I do though, understand that this is at least trying to do *something*
0
zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
< beside this, "zeke" , I hope no ingame friend since he has a real bad "aura", was usefull to show, how much damage a GWF deals He compares his damage to a BIS warlock with "maxed gear" and claims he was beaten by that, I can´t follow his arguments any more, maybe that´s why he runs in front like a maniac.
Yes u cant follow, thats for sure...
For the third time, i COMPARE u to 2.9k SW, not BiS one, and im TELLING U to learn from some of the best BiS SWs. Learning from the best is one of the ways to get to the top. If u understand ur class in same way u understand what im writing to u, well, godspeed. Also if u think my poor 3.6k gwf is overpowered, u seen nothing yet m8.
One more thing... bad "aura"? well im ego maniac (so u r close), how cant i have bad aura? But those who knows me will tell u im not roten to the bone... yet...
2) Also to all ppl here, i will never understand argument of "own playstyle" i see this as argument covering incompetence for most of the cases. I understand roleplaying for some cases (e.g archery hr with bronzewood, coz it matches his guardian of wilds, renger roleplaying theme) but for most of ppl its just poor excuse.
Edit: i dont understand ppl who dont selfimprove, either its game which gives u fun (U r still here, right?) or real live, as some said here, we have only that one life, why not to make the best out of it and be the best in everything u touch. After all if u r good at something it works flawlessly, so if task gives u joy, is easy to done (coz u r good at it) and payoffs only when u do it good, why dont do it good? Why ppl must to make it harder, by not being good at it, with excuses like "own playstyle", no-optimal one for most, while if they would lisen to others they would become more effective, so get more joy and would be acctualy helpfull to team. WHY?
All the good gods, i dont understand ppl at all.
3) @bauggs please decide, instruction unclear, should i stop playing as u r TELLING me too, or do what i want, coz ur posts r exluding each other.
4) Ehh, someties calling my tools tools is offense to my tools.
people still plays like they want no matter how you rage...i said it becouse it looks like you take this too seriously...
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Yes
Control wizard does damage and without lostmauth set. THE encounters reset so fast with spell twisting and even more when you have and some recovery. Chilling presence also increase damage for each chill and when the targets are frozen they get double damage. ON paragon master of flame we have critical conflagration which increase the critical severity +20%, or you can play with the swath of destruction which is 15% boost for you and for your pt. ON paragon spell storm you have the eye of the storm can be good combination with chilling presence. DIsintegrate maybe deal lesser than the tooltip says but still it does much damage and you have it every 3 seconds.
Control wizard does damage and without lostmauth set. THE encounters reset so fast with spell twisting and even more when you have and some recovery. Chilling presence also increase damage for each chill and when the targets are frozen they get double damage. ON paragon master of flame we have critical conflagration which increase the critical severity +20%, or you can play with the swath of destruction which is 15% boost for you and for your pt. ON paragon spell storm you have the eye of the storm can be good combination with chilling presence. DIsintegrate maybe deal lesser than the tooltip says but still it does much damage and you have it every 3 seconds.
1. Chilling Presence against frozen targets is not double damage. 2. Crit Conflag is inferior to Swath 3. Swath is 20%, not 15% 4. Eye of the Storm combined with Chilling Presence is a stupid idea, why would you give up the only reason you'd go Spellstorm? (Storm Spell) 5. What do you mean by every 3 seconds? The cooldown is a lot longer than that.
Wannabe CWs, man...
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Control wizard does damage and without lostmauth set. THE encounters reset so fast with spell twisting and even more when you have and some recovery. Chilling presence also increase damage for each chill and when the targets are frozen they get double damage. ON paragon master of flame we have critical conflagration which increase the critical severity +20%, or you can play with the swath of destruction which is 15% boost for you and for your pt. ON paragon spell storm you have the eye of the storm can be good combination with chilling presence. DIsintegrate maybe deal lesser than the tooltip says but still it does much damage and you have it every 3 seconds.
1. Chilling Presence against frozen targets is not double damage. 2. Crit Conflag is inferior to Swath 3. Swath is 20%, not 15% 4. Eye of the Storm combined with Chilling Presence is a stupid idea, why would you give up the only reason you'd go Spellstorm? (Storm Spell) 5. What do you mean by every 3 seconds? The cooldown is a lot longer than that.
Wannabe CWs, man...
1.About chilling presence i type it wrong you have right is 8%(rank 4) per chill on maximum chills is 48% which become 96% because the tooltip says : Increases the damage you deal by 2% for each stack of Chill on your target. This damage bonus is doubled on Frozen targets. 2. Maybe i want increase only my damage and use conflagration ofcourse with a high critical build. 3. I didnt add the first rank my bad. 4. Well you have 30% chance to activate the storm spell when you critical ( storm spell hit is not critical). thats why i gone master of flame smolder hit all the time vs the stormspell with 30% chance on criticals. 5. I Have it every 3 seconds. i have 4200 recovery spell twisting and fight on feat.
Comments
I think the game should provide a bigger challenge and upgrade equally other sets.
tiamat/Lifesteal/SH Boons/rings/axebeakmounts/companion madness/multiproccing bondings/
but what really stands out is .... lolset, for such a long period it "disbalances this hole game"
nothing left a mark like this set
PERsonal i payed the black ice beholder 4 million astral diamonds after 10 days lostmauth set was the overpowered set( broken) i should cry because i payed 4 million the beholder ? No i will not i will live.
sometimes i buy overprice sometimes i buy very cheap and sometimes i buy normal price.
YOU say time and money invested upgrade lostmauth ? What about the elemental evil weapons ? even in double rp you still put rp for 57 to 60. SO when you dont have problem with that why you have problem with lostmauth? go in double rp and drop other set inside it .
TIME and money shouldnt be argument when a set is broken because if that counts as argument then give to control wizard renegade back the 250% weapon damage on abyss of chaos and multiproc, give back old intimidation on great weapon fighter and make again the deep gash to able to critical , give back critical storm spell on control wizard.
The lost set will get the same treatment as all the other OP sets in the past did, die of obsolesce because of the inevitable goal-post-move. How many DC's you see wearing the High Profit, or GWF's wearing the Avatar or War, GF's and the Timeless Hero? Their buffs are still there, the problem is the stats didn't scale. Stats from gear are everything now.
Why would NWO change it now and upset 67% of this poll (and potentially close to that ratio of non-voting players), when they can add a new set that's just attractive enough to make the lost set refinement points in mod9? It's worked in the past. Why change the formula?
I'm a GF tank. Not a DPS class. But I recognize how much time and effort the DPS classes have put into this set. To change it now, this late in the set's service-life, seems very harsh to dedicated players. From what I've seen in this game, a balance is never balanced. Scourge Warlocks. Nerfing lifesteal then adding godly OPs to own PvP for 3 mods. Leadership. NWO doesn't gracefully adjust anything. They slap it with a 9 ton hammer. Be careful what you wish for. We've all seen, time again, the fix being worse then the problem. New mounts with massive arm pen (where's all the outcry for that?), new pets with amazing buffs (extra hit on non-crit, seriously!?), pvp companions. I don't see the lost set as something that should, all over a sudden, get tossed to the top of the priority list, not after 3 mods of life already. There's lots of other things to swing flaming pitchforks over, especially in the neglected bugs forum.
There are 2 (optionally3) important balancing acts to perform:
1) Balance classes against each other for success against content (PvE relevance of classes)
2) Balance parties against content (PvE challenge interesting)
3) [Optional] Balance classes against each other for fighting each other (PvP)
Personally I call PvP optional, because I think it's the one to let go, as it just becomes too hard. I refuse to PvP anymore, but perhaps it can succeed by getting an even more independent rule set.
I know many see a Lostmauth as the way to get the "out of control DPS class" under control, but it's more complicated than that. The set is also the backbone of every other class struggling to be DPS relevant, despite the that that (due to the belt), it was intended for a fairly specific class. Additionally, many have poured much time and resource into an entire build round it.
So, what do you hope to achieve by nerfing Lostmauth? Control a runaway DPS class? Make the PvE content more challenging? Magic bullet for both? Are you sure that the adjustment wouldn't effect the struggling DPS classes more than it would effect a DPS dominant class that outperforms others despite a 1K less gear score?
No. What we really need is more challenge in our content, and there's nowhere near enough thought here on where we would be after nerfing a Lostmauth nerf.
Here's the rub: Right now most anybody (class) can still reasonably get a run, because the content is easy enough to beat. Everyone gets to play. You make the content challenging enough, but leave massive advantage with a favored DPS class, and the game gets nasty pretty quickly.
Long time players that can think back to when content was challenging and classes imbalanced, will know what I mean - if you were on the receiving end of it.
So, I won't vote on a massive game changing proposal, where the effects aren't properly understood.
I do though, understand that this is at least trying to do *something*
For the third time, i COMPARE u to 2.9k SW, not BiS one, and im TELLING U to learn from some of the best BiS SWs. Learning from the best is one of the ways to get to the top. If u understand ur class in same way u understand what im writing to u, well, godspeed. Also if u think my poor 3.6k gwf is overpowered, u seen nothing yet m8.
One more thing... bad "aura"? well im ego maniac (so u r close), how cant i have bad aura? But those who knows me will tell u im not roten to the bone... yet...
2)
Also to all ppl here, i will never understand argument of "own playstyle" i see this as argument covering incompetence for most of the cases. I understand roleplaying for some cases (e.g archery hr with bronzewood, coz it matches his guardian of wilds, renger roleplaying theme) but for most of ppl its just poor excuse.
Edit: i dont understand ppl who dont selfimprove, either its game which gives u fun (U r still here, right?) or real live, as some said here, we have only that one life, why not to make the best out of it and be the best in everything u touch. After all if u r good at something it works flawlessly, so if task gives u joy, is easy to done (coz u r good at it) and payoffs only when u do it good, why dont do it good? Why ppl must to make it harder, by not being good at it, with excuses like "own playstyle", no-optimal one for most, while if they would lisen to others they would become more effective, so get more joy and would be acctualy helpfull to team. WHY?
All the good gods, i dont understand ppl at all.
3)
@bauggs please decide, instruction unclear, should i stop playing as u r TELLING me too, or do what i want, coz ur posts r exluding each other.
4) Ehh, someties calling my tools tools is offense to my tools.
Why do i even try.
(Sin)cerely
Kain
ON paragon master of flame we have critical conflagration which increase the critical severity +20%, or you can play with the swath of destruction which is 15% boost for you and for your pt.
ON paragon spell storm you have the eye of the storm can be good combination with chilling presence.
DIsintegrate maybe deal lesser than the tooltip says but still it does much damage and you have it every 3 seconds.
2. Crit Conflag is inferior to Swath
3. Swath is 20%, not 15%
4. Eye of the Storm combined with Chilling Presence is a stupid idea, why would you give up the only reason you'd go Spellstorm? (Storm Spell)
5. What do you mean by every 3 seconds? The cooldown is a lot longer than that.
Wannabe CWs, man...
2. Maybe i want increase only my damage and use conflagration ofcourse with a high critical build.
3. I didnt add the first rank my bad.
4. Well you have 30% chance to activate the storm spell when you critical ( storm spell hit is not critical). thats why i gone master of flame smolder hit all the time vs the stormspell with 30% chance on criticals.
5. I Have it every 3 seconds. i have 4200 recovery spell twisting and fight on feat.