Tanky one - the circle is 100% reliable
Healy one - circle activates 1/3 - 1/2 the time
Haven't gotten to the point of Paragons yet, but at least before lv 30 it's basically a crapshoot if pressing Shift does diddly squat. Sometimes it likes to troll you by excuting the animation without the effect, too - yay.
Sigh, first off for Paly's because a class is not designed as a DPS class doesn't mean it should be stripped of all damage, especially in NW where the classes are nothing like what they are advertised as.
CW is a primary control class with secondary Striker function, yet its DPS is arguably top's, its defense is on par with Tank classes, and its control is top level, HR is Striker,secondary Controller, but has a ton of Control, and not so much DPS.
TR/GWFWL are the only class's that actually fits its descriptions properly with what is built out.
GF Defender/Controller, yea they can still provide quite a bit of damage, along with the defense, and controls.
Unfortunately this game does not follow DnD basic mindset that every adventure should be able to be handled by any class a person chooses, we have been forced into a holy trinity build now, which was a shame in the beginning it was much closer to the original idea.
Paly's that want to DPS will just need to wait for OV to release out, the official EE release day notes on Paladin, included some skills that belong to OV path anyway, so its wait it out or switch classes, or make do, I always felt DJ was a crutch for OP anyway only time I really used it was working on PvP Boons Double/Triple kills.
Imagine you got all the fancy toys around and one day a new kid comes with an even fancier toy than you buy that's the only thing he has. Other than that he has nothing. So what would you do? Break that fancy toy!
I don't think devs will ever bring back the damage for your daily, Paladins. I remember when my DC Hammer of Fate used to be very strong, a long time ago. Back then, it used to be our only heavy hitter skill and was nerfed a lot. Today we have a DPS DC feat tree. Maybe Paladins will get one too in the future.
nope, but i have been needled to death by a TR, frozen and chained to death by CWs and tossed around like runway model in prison by a GF. the fact i can get one lucky hit in every once in awhile is no different.
there is NO way i can DPS against an even geared TR in a straight up fight he will kill me. my only chance is to turtle and hope he gets bored and moves on. thats my move. and if i get lucky, real lucky that he's too newb to dodge my DJ then yep, i one shot him.
for a good equally geared CW, with shield on tab and a negation. i can't one shot them. they are as tanky as me. and i got the video to prove it.
against an equally geared GF, i've been killed. they have WAY more CC attacks than i do, and all of their encounters do more damage than mine. all i can do is turtle and hope i can heal faster than he can hurt me. and that he gets bored and leaves. there are many times i've sat on a point with an equal GF and just talked because we both saw we couldn't hurt the other enough to matter.
GWFs, i have yet to find one that can kill me unless they take me totally by surprised and get me with a daily followed by IBS. they need some beefing up in PvP
HR's... if they can perma daze me, they might hurt me a little, but i haven't had one actually do much damage in a long time. they need some help.
and SWs at the high end PvP game.... i don't think there are any.
so by your logic since my ONE real attack is going to be nerfed they should add significant damage to my encounters and at wills so the OP is still PvP viable.
but what about PvE? since this isn't the PvP thread lets look at that. in PvE we were already next to bottom on total damage output. so the answer is to MAKE us the bottom?
If PvP was the problem why not fix it in just that arena. why nerf it game wide? If it was a game wide problem i'd like to know why and HOW?
May be you didnt play your pally right, I never had any issue with a CW or a TR when it come to one on one (and yes, I almost never use divine call in Domination because I'm too shame to use such broken feat).
At the same gear range, all you need to do is BO and Templar (in PVP I use RA to refill my AP). Save those damage they give them to you, and trow it back to them (it has a huge area, 30'!).
Those piercing damage from TR knife only eat up my Temp HP tho, most of the time, I just eat them up (with out sanctuary) and when the BO about to pop, I charge them close with RA, cast my Sanctuary (you have to move while pressing Shift, dont just press shift without moving or you will bugged out most of the time) and bam, there, you can have your 20% total damage i receive that I saved just for you.
When it come to crowd clash, I always use my Divine Protector beause we are suppose to ... uh ... supprisingly ... to protect our team mates.
And please ppl, Pally are more like an Utility class. He buff up his teammates, he debuff his enemies while at the same time, he can protect them from dying, or heals them.
Isnt he's a great class? Maybe you didnt get the true power of this class yet. unslot those aura of courage or unslot those wisdom or aura of truth, lets give him 50% more damage output in ALL of his offensive encounter and his daily.
Can he be more usefull in team combat (be it PVP or dungeon) than he is now? I dont think so
As DC and CW(!) we are support class too, i get it. I actually have no problem with it, I usually use only my healing skills cuz I like to help my team and never do damage if they don't need my help.
I'm just gonna ask one question, PVP Campaigns are not meant to be done by paladins?
They could just do what they did to Disheartening strike in mod 5 - "This power does reduced damage against players". And it would not affect PvE at all. I liked Relentless Assault + DJ on very tough mobs while playing solo, because OP has way more AoE damage to deal with small mobs, but his single target damage is kinda low. I will get used to this change, but I think there were better ways to balance skill that had issues in PvP only.
just because a class is not a DPS class doesn't mean it should have any large damage skills removed, GF are not DPS classes, but can DPS with the best of them.
just because a class is not a DPS class doesn't mean it should have any large damage skills removed, GF are not DPS classes, but can DPS with the best of them.
you should complaining about your class lacking dps encounters when dps is needed not asking to have that kind of dailly which is bound to be nerfed as happened to shocking, as happened to tyrannical threat and probably many other.
they probably went overboard but they got the basic idea right...no daily should hit that hard
i would say GFs are second in PvP just below TRs for survivability. at the top end. and the middle to lower end OPs rule. but at the top end where skill and equipment meet TR/GF/CW/OP/HR/GWF/SW is the order i'd put them in. OP is middle of the pack for survivability.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason, when a class gets adjusted for PvP, it also affects PvE. I wish that the game code had a way to differentiate between the two - Player 1 enters a PvP zone, these powers are decreased, player 1 enters a PvE zone, powers are not adjusted.
It is what it is. We all knew it was coming. Time to dust off my GF and level him up to 70 this weekend and see how he plays in the new areas.
that doesnt mean they must nerf the damage, if they are hard to kill just nerf their shield or heals (if heals is any problem because im devotion with 7k def and 105khp and im dead in 1 stun)
0
urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
edited June 2015
I am not commenting on the nerf... just stating a fact
based on how i see some people play them i would say they aren't really a CC class at the low end.
only time i see people using them as CC is in higher level PvP where they rock.
so i would say CWs, when played correctly, are a CC class with really high DPS. does that answer your question?
"CC class with really high dps" and high survivability. Yes you did answer my question, thanks. Hey since we started, let's halve paladins heal and tank too. It will be well balanced.
0
urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
when i put my defense feats in and use my defense encounters i'm tanky as hell, but i can't kill anything unless i get lucky with a DJ
when i put in offense feats and use offense encounters i get a bit of DPS and some CC with RA. but i'm pretty easy to cc and kill
and as a protector i'm not sure i can even heal anyone, unless its by accident. if there are skills for that i didn't take them.
so tank/heal/dps pick 2
GF is better Tank/dps
CW is better CC/DPS with some tank thrown in when using negation and shield on tab, and perma repel
TR is DPS/DPS/stealth/DPS
DC is dodge/heal/dodge/heal/dps/dodge/dodge/dodge/repel
SW is DPS/die
GWF is 2 hit kill/die/run away very fast
HR is trap/daze/dps/trap/daze/dps
each setup has a set rotation. i really didn't see the problem. against a good TR you can't hit them with a DJ. against a good DC you can't hit them with a DJ, against a good CW you can hit them and they shrug it off. against a good GF it takes 1/4 to 1/2 their health but by then you are on your back getting hammered by them. and as i've said before SW/GWF/HR all need help
Problem is you misunderstood me my friend I'm totally with you. I was just raging those hypocrates saying paladin is a support class shouldn't have any dps at all and even nerf our tankiness.
Cw can do all 3 without respeccing and hell even changing their skill set.
A. if you use DJ in group play (dungeons), you're doing it wrong.
B. If you're a PVP pally and you're mad - you're doing it wrong. A support toon is NOT SUPPOSED TO ONE SHOT PLAYERS.
It's a welcome change for the PVP community and makes PVP a little more playable with pally's around now (they still can't be killed and it's ridiculous. But letting them hold a node is one thing, letting them kill everyone also is another.)
I agree DJ needed to be addressed but nerfing it by 67% seems a little harsh if they are not going to up the damage on some of our encounters. personally I'd like them to look at fixing the sanc bug so that I don't die so much when face tanking a boss and trying to taunt spawned mobs for that split second while dps gets them CC'ed and melted down!
I mean come on guys when at level 3/4 doing the intro you can one shot the mini boss with no enchants and giggle like a little kid, you had to expect a nerf! this class was made for Tanking/healing NOT DPS if you want to DPS roll a CW they never really see a true nerf in this game! worst ever happen to them was Shard that all most no cw's use now and Sing
My OP is the best in the server.
I am the OP with the best score in PVP
maybe the problem is that you do not know what you say?
As if any real PvPer with any sense of gaming balance would ever acknowledge a class user that's gained a (self-proclaimed) "Best in Server" status with a mass abuse of smorgasbord of broken shi* like multiple non-WAI mechanics such as artifact recharge tampering, easy-peasy 1-shot Daily, one-pattern spammable easy-peasy survivability. It's almost as comical as a MI perma-Sabo CoS+SO+LoL build user showing off his e-peen. :rolleyes: ROFL
Like I said, changes like this is simply a great opportunity to split the chaff from the wheat, because even with every nerf that's happened to every class in this game throughout the many mods that came with the past years, the truly "best in the class" players have always shown to persist, making the best of what they've got, and tirelessly showing to the community what they can accomplish and illuminate for others, whereas the FotM tin-men just come and go like the tide, following one FotM after other.
You don't fool anyone, tin man. Go find another FotM that suits your taste. I suggest a Sabo-build TR -- hold down one button and that's all you need.
As an archer-spec HR. I have a really hard time sympathizing with anyone who complains about getting nerfed, or being impressed by anyone who proclaims their prowess in PvP. etc.
Comments
Odd, I have 2 70 paladins.
Tanky one - the circle is 100% reliable
Healy one - circle activates 1/3 - 1/2 the time
Haven't gotten to the point of Paragons yet, but at least before lv 30 it's basically a crapshoot if pressing Shift does diddly squat. Sometimes it likes to troll you by excuting the animation without the effect, too - yay.
Pretty sure that's not WAI.
CW is a primary control class with secondary Striker function, yet its DPS is arguably top's, its defense is on par with Tank classes, and its control is top level, HR is Striker,secondary Controller, but has a ton of Control, and not so much DPS.
TR/GWFWL are the only class's that actually fits its descriptions properly with what is built out.
GF Defender/Controller, yea they can still provide quite a bit of damage, along with the defense, and controls.
Unfortunately this game does not follow DnD basic mindset that every adventure should be able to be handled by any class a person chooses, we have been forced into a holy trinity build now, which was a shame in the beginning it was much closer to the original idea.
Paly's that want to DPS will just need to wait for OV to release out, the official EE release day notes on Paladin, included some skills that belong to OV path anyway, so its wait it out or switch classes, or make do, I always felt DJ was a crutch for OP anyway only time I really used it was working on PvP Boons Double/Triple kills.
Yeah, agreed, and try to take a CW and solo VT, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE, we CW really need a boost !
Leliana C.W. - Opressor CW
Lelian O.P. - Bulwark Paladin
May be you didnt play your pally right, I never had any issue with a CW or a TR when it come to one on one (and yes, I almost never use divine call in Domination because I'm too shame to use such broken feat).
At the same gear range, all you need to do is BO and Templar (in PVP I use RA to refill my AP). Save those damage they give them to you, and trow it back to them (it has a huge area, 30'!).
Those piercing damage from TR knife only eat up my Temp HP tho, most of the time, I just eat them up (with out sanctuary) and when the BO about to pop, I charge them close with RA, cast my Sanctuary (you have to move while pressing Shift, dont just press shift without moving or you will bugged out most of the time) and bam, there, you can have your 20% total damage i receive that I saved just for you.
When it come to crowd clash, I always use my Divine Protector beause we are suppose to ... uh ... supprisingly ... to protect our team mates.
And please ppl, Pally are more like an Utility class. He buff up his teammates, he debuff his enemies while at the same time, he can protect them from dying, or heals them.
Isnt he's a great class? Maybe you didnt get the true power of this class yet. unslot those aura of courage or unslot those wisdom or aura of truth, lets give him 50% more damage output in ALL of his offensive encounter and his daily.
Can he be more usefull in team combat (be it PVP or dungeon) than he is now? I dont think so
I'm just gonna ask one question, PVP Campaigns are not meant to be done by paladins?
just because a class is not a DPS class doesn't mean it should have any large damage skills removed, GF are not DPS classes, but can DPS with the best of them.
they probably went overboard but they got the basic idea right...no daily should hit that hard
CW is a dps class?
and where is DC?
It is what it is. We all knew it was coming. Time to dust off my GF and level him up to 70 this weekend and see how he plays in the new areas.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
My OP is the best in the server.
I am the OP with the best score in PVP
maybe the problem is that you do not know what you say?
actually according to the wiki they are tanks/leaders not strikers.
Really
Urlord
that doesnt mean they must nerf the damage, if they are hard to kill just nerf their shield or heals (if heals is any problem because im devotion with 7k def and 105khp and im dead in 1 stun)
"CC class with really high dps" and high survivability. Yes you did answer my question, thanks. Hey since we started, let's halve paladins heal and tank too. It will be well balanced.
OK
BTW that is not a bad thing
I agree they should be hard to kill
It makes a good game
Problem is you misunderstood me my friend
Cw can do all 3 without respeccing and hell even changing their skill set.
I admit I'm not great at PvP anyway, but you don't see many stormwarden archers mowing people down in PvP.
A. if you use DJ in group play (dungeons), you're doing it wrong.
B. If you're a PVP pally and you're mad - you're doing it wrong. A support toon is NOT SUPPOSED TO ONE SHOT PLAYERS.
It's a welcome change for the PVP community and makes PVP a little more playable with pally's around now (they still can't be killed and it's ridiculous. But letting them hold a node is one thing, letting them kill everyone also is another.)
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
I mean come on guys when at level 3/4 doing the intro you can one shot the mini boss with no enchants and giggle like a little kid, you had to expect a nerf! this class was made for Tanking/healing NOT DPS if you want to DPS roll a CW they never really see a true nerf in this game! worst ever happen to them was Shard that all most no cw's use now and Sing
As if any real PvPer with any sense of gaming balance would ever acknowledge a class user that's gained a (self-proclaimed) "Best in Server" status with a mass abuse of smorgasbord of broken shi* like multiple non-WAI mechanics such as artifact recharge tampering, easy-peasy 1-shot Daily, one-pattern spammable easy-peasy survivability. It's almost as comical as a MI perma-Sabo CoS+SO+LoL build user showing off his e-peen. :rolleyes: ROFL
Like I said, changes like this is simply a great opportunity to split the chaff from the wheat, because even with every nerf that's happened to every class in this game throughout the many mods that came with the past years, the truly "best in the class" players have always shown to persist, making the best of what they've got, and tirelessly showing to the community what they can accomplish and illuminate for others, whereas the FotM tin-men just come and go like the tide, following one FotM after other.
You don't fool anyone, tin man. Go find another FotM that suits your taste. I suggest a Sabo-build TR -- hold down one button and that's all you need.
Sigh.....
Pew pew pew at you you you