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Poll: What do you think of the nerf to Dragon's Hoard Enchantments?

wentriswentris Member Posts: 542 Arc User
edited May 2015 in General Discussion (PC)
There is a mechanic on these items to limit how often and how much they can drop each day. A normal game session for a day should not be impacted.

by panderus

Unfortunately it seems that the daily limit does impact a normal game session, or at least a LEGIT farming (human control over toon, farming in normal game areas, like fiery pit). I run out of daily limit after less than 1 hour farm. The uproar on forums about dragon hoard enchantments means that it affects more people - unless there are botters only complaining, which I dont really believe. If you found this to be only solution to fight botters - at least tweak it not to affect normal players.
Post edited by wentris on
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Comments

  • phoenix1021phoenix1021 Member Posts: 532 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Farming mobs en masse for hours just to get the enchantment to proc is not a "normal game session"...
  • wentriswentris Member Posts: 542 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Farming mobs en masse for hours just to get the enchantment to proc is not a "normal game session"...

    Why not? Normal game session = gameplay without using bots/exploits. Unless we have other definition of normal game session, but I'd need an information what do you(they?) mean by that
  • lokahn11lokahn11 Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Farming has always been part of MMORPGs...legit non-bot controlled farming to amass wealth, items, resources, whatever...that's just as 'normal' of a session as running two dozen dungeons consecutively or doing forty PvP matches, etc.
  • x3n0forumx3n0forum Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    By the way, I'm pretty sure you can reach the limit just from regular mob killing when doing dailies.
  • urlord283urlord283 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,084 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    That would explain the spurty nature I have seen
  • vinceent1vinceent1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,264 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    x3n0forum wrote: »
    By the way, I'm pretty sure you can reach the limit just from regular mob killing when doing dailies.

    of course, message is clear. normal game session is 50 minutes, we dont expect you will be here for a longer time (we dont deliver new content btw), your cryptic
  • adent086adent086 Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    There shouldn't BE a "daily limit" on these. The fact that there is one is just insulting and shows how greedy the devs have gotten trying to FORCE their players into a pay to win model. Everything that comes from these enchants binds. So their is no effect to the overall game or economy. Any daily limit can only be to one goal: Limit player progression so they are more likely to PAY for their progress rather than PLAY for their progress. It's nauseating greed at its worst tbh, and a clear sign that it is time to just move on to another title.
    Telling us about upcoming content updates, and getting those updates out the door BUG-FREE, is *AWESOME*!! Know what's even *MORE* awesome? Fixing game breaking bugs (and/or undocumented "features") that have been in EXISTING content for months/years!!! Guess which one makes me want to spend money on a game much more than the other? Hint: It's the "more awesome" one.
  • mifiisumifiisu Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Why limit if it's already bound :/?
  • pancakeattaxpancakeattax Member Posts: 191 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    mifiisu wrote: »
    Why limit if it's already bound :/?

    +1
    /10 char
  • mifiisumifiisu Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Or....i can live with fewer drops and longer cooldowns if they get rid of all the 100 and 500 stones and make lesser resos and sapphires the default drops and add 50k rubies to the loot table
  • pancakeattaxpancakeattax Member Posts: 191 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    mifiisu wrote: »
    and add 50k rubies to the loot table

    Thats never going to happen, its part of their revenue.
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    3 hours is a normal game session
  • burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    rayrdan wrote: »
    3 hours is a normal game session

    normal game session is how many hours you can/want to play legit, and dont need stupid limits, RP system as it is now is pathetic pile of fail, and they are making it even worse for legit players who didnt get lucky and happen to "find" 2bil AD. there are too many RP needed. at best scenario @ mod4 foundry it took some 50+ hours to get enough rp for a single legendary, so you spent skyrim kind of time just doing braindead grind in a farm foundry, how long it takes now ?

    they would need to get rid of 100/500 RP drops @ lvl 70 for it to make any sense, and even then it would be 2 slow, weekly quests and dungeons need to reward some decent number of RP like at least blue resonance.

    RP for enchants and artifacts is ok, its the artifact equips that are fd up(especially with the 2nd gem slot only unlocking at legendary)
    Paladin Master Race
  • pile2000pile2000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    What is an average gaming session... Consider your common daily quest, how many kills would you generally need to do finish the quest? Some mobs are required packs that you need to kill and some mobs are in the way or accidentally pulled. A very low average would be 30. Now let us say you are a new player who needs to do all the campains. Shadandar 9 quest + 3 mini dungeons, Dredring 3 quests + 1 mini dungeon, Dragon well 2 quests + 1 quest or minidungeon, Icewind and Dwarven walley 7 quests... and you might want to do a dungeon also.
    22x30 +5 minidungeons + a dungeon...

    In very round numbers that comes down to low end 1000 kills.
  • blackxxwolf3blackxxwolf3 Member Posts: 1,539 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    pile2000 wrote: »
    What is an average gaming session... Consider your common daily quest, how many kills would you generally need to do finish the quest? Some mobs are required packs that you need to kill and some mobs are in the way or accidentally pulled. A very low average would be 30. Now let us say you are a new player who needs to do all the campains. Shadandar 9 quest + 3 mini dungeons, Dredring 3 quests + 1 mini dungeon, Dragon well 2 quests + 1 quest or minidungeon, Icewind and Dwarven walley 7 quests... and you might want to do a dungeon also.
    22x30 +5 minidungeons + a dungeon...

    In very round numbers that comes down to low end 1000 kills.
    thats why i rarely do dailies and i only have 2 sharender and 4 dread ring and 3 iwd boons.
  • twoedge1twoedge1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    mifiisu wrote: »
    Why limit if it's already bound :/?

    I'm surprised I haven't seen more people bring this up. It makes no sense to limit the drops when they are bound to account.

    Either remove the bindings or change the drop rate back to pre mod 6 levels.
  • quspivquspiv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    twoedge1 wrote: »
    I'm surprised I haven't seen more people bring this up. It makes no sense to limit the drops when they are bound to account.

    Either remove the bindings or change the drop rate back to pre mod 6 levels.

    It makes sense because it lower the gap between casuals and HC players.
  • edited May 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • wentriswentris Member Posts: 542 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    jimmyhar wrote: »
    I don't agree with it but it does make a certain amount of sense because bound RP can be used to refine unbound enchants which can then be sold on the AH.

    No it doesnt if u look at it that way - Fey Blessing Enchantements arent affected by limits and are better to refine unbound enchants
  • twoedge1twoedge1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    wentris wrote: »
    No it doesnt if u look at it that way - Fey Blessing Enchantements arent affected by limits and are better to refine unbound enchants

    Sounds like fey blessing will be getting an update in the near future.

    And the sad thing is I bet that will get updated before they fix all rank 4 powers... LOL
  • nwoun1nwoun1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    burkaanc wrote: »
    normal game session is how many hours you can/want to play legit, and dont need stupid limits, RP system as it is now is pathetic pile of fail, and they are making it even worse for legit players who didnt get lucky and happen to "find" 2bil AD. there are too many RP needed. at best scenario @ mod4 foundry it took some 50+ hours to get enough rp for a single legendary, so you spent skyrim kind of time just doing braindead grind in a farm foundry, how long it takes now ?

    they would need to get rid of 100/500 RP drops @ lvl 70 for it to make any sense, and even then it would be 2 slow, weekly quests and dungeons need to reward some decent number of RP like at least blue resonance.

    RP for enchants and artifacts is ok, its the artifact equips that are fd up(especially with the 2nd gem slot only unlocking at legendary)

    Their system is working. RP is the endgame of Neverwinter and if you want to progress faster, you have to pay. The only RPs that actually come from dungeons are paid by ZEN keys or campaign tasks, which cost 10k AD. It's quite obvious.

    The only way to legitimately farm currently is doing dragon runs in the Well of Lag. I don't get the idea behind all this, are we really supposed to build up an army of Leadership ALTs?
  • mmm1001mmm1001 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 497 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    wentris wrote: »
    by panderus

    Unfortunately it seems that the daily limit does impact a normal game session, or at least a LEGIT farming (human control over toon, farming in normal game areas, like fiery pit). I run out of daily limit after less than 1 hour farm. The uproar on forums about dragon hoard enchantments means that it affects more people - unless there are botters only complaining, which I dont really believe. If you found this to be only solution to fight botters - at least tweak it not to affect normal players.

    This is obviously anti-player measure, not anti-bot.
    Bots are not farming RP this way. They are farming skill-nodes in dungeons, as they drop non-bound RP. And bots are working like always - just look at AH most of farmed stuff is sold by same players.
  • ph33rm3ph33rm3 Member Posts: 549 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    panderus wrote: »
    There is a mechanic on these items to limit how often and how much they can drop each day. A normal game session for a day should not be impacted.

    We have seen players use them heavily to just farm all day with bots and this was one of the valves we closed to that behavior.

    Wow. Just wow. I spent 10 million AD upgrading all my Dragon Hoard Enchantments to increase the drop rate. Now the drops stop coming after what seems like less than an hour. So. The further you upgrade them. the more useless they are.

    ARE YOU KIDDING ME? You just punched me right in the face.

    *shakes head* Both my kids quit the game. I'm next.
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I offer you 10k ads and 3 peanuts for each one and i m taking a loss
  • blackxxwolf3blackxxwolf3 Member Posts: 1,539 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    yup i had just upgraded myne to regular from lessers thinking it was a sound investment i traded a friggin bullette mount i really wanted for them.and then they do this.
  • fantasycharacterfantasycharacter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    WTH really devs?

    This feels like more Punishment for playing your game.
  • ph33rm3ph33rm3 Member Posts: 549 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    WTH really devs?

    This feels like more Punishment for playing your game.

    That's how it works now. The more you play. The less you get. The less you play. The more you get...

    A sound business model.
  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Yep yet another wonderful example in a long long line of examples of legit players taking a hit to combat bots.
    YourSecretsAreOurSecrets.gif
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,455 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    So, now, they define if you play all day, you are a bot?
    This does not makes sense. Instead of looking for bot, they wipe out humans too.
    I think there is some movies have such story line but I can't recall what it is.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,170 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    After a month, the devs have finally admitted that they nerfed dragon's hoard enchantments with a daily drop limit.
    The official explanation is that this is an anti-botting measure.
    This explanation does not hold up. Bots were already stifled by the lack of auto-pickup plus drops disappearing after a certain amount of time. Additionally, binding the drops to an account limited the usefulness of bots by keeping those who use them from exploiting the auction house.
    Now all botters have to do is simply have an army of different characters, just like the chat spammers do, and keep switching between them. I am positive they figured this out very quickly. The auto-pickup has done nothing but make their lives easier.
    Meanwhile, despite the claim that a normal gaming session wouldn't be impacted by the nerf, it is. Every normal gaming session is. Drops of stones larger than lesser resonance stones are nearly non-existent. Drops of aquamarines are almost equally rare.

    So what we have is a mechanic that does nothing at all to stop bots, but punishes legitimate players and makes it nearly impossible to ever finish refining new artifact gear. In the process, it cheats all players of the time and resources they put into upgrading their hoard enchantments.

    Whether or not the official explanation is the real reason for the nerf - and given the month of delay it took for ANY explanation to appear, it is difficult to believe that it is - it was a terrible decision, does not accomplish its stated goal, and negatively impacts practically all players.

    Sadly, it was necessary to post a new thread because another got shut down immediately. So here's why this is productive: the level of disenchantment and discontent among players is plain to see on the forums. So is the near-total absence of any changes to improve this game after a month of a mod that is - according to the poll which is still visible - strongly disliked by over 80% of players. It is up to the devs and PWE to start making some significant changes that will restore players' enjoyment of the game. Being rewarded for playing and for investing rescoures is a basic, Pavlovian mechanic that is essential to enjoying the game. This entire mod - and this nerf in particular - has moved rewards farther and farther from reach. Change it and you'll earn the thanks of players and maybe some more patience while the slow, slow pace of improvements grinds on.
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