The greed run was invented for purple equipment witch not everyone can need. It is both stupid and against the initial purpose of the rule to greed a mark.
I agree. IMO, rings, belts and neck should be need also, but I understand some people get confused.
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grobb1Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 34
edited February 2015
haha i remeber my first greed run i joined as a DC, unknowingly joined. My DC was super poorly equipped and an upgrade for me dropped. After i *needed* for it certain people had a fit and i was totally lost on the idea that if it is an upgrade for me why should i put myself in a situation where someone else who wont even wear it can take before me.
I understand this is a AD grind to most people and i understand the greediness yet i still dont respect greed runs. Dont join them and you wont have to worry... hit the need button like a boss- if the greedy people cant respect that then forget them but i do like the greed button as a way of saying *meh, if no one else wants it ill take it*
sorry if i mess up what i'm trying to write, english is a third language for me.
forgive the momentary off topic reply, but I just want to say that for a third language, you type english better than most people for whom english is their first/only language.
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urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
Yeah still has some problems but closer to roll/pass than what we have. I really dislike the mess that has been made of the loot system with boe binding. need/greed just doesn't work for boe loot. The only thing that works with boe is individual loot. But here we are and no matter what there will be some problems. Any potential solution will be a matter of is there going to be less problem cases than before. Because BoP is limited to a couple dungeons I think this would provide less, though nothing here is perfect.
The thing I fear is if it was to become the norm. Though it may have shifted from bop from bosses to bop from the chest if kessels retreat, lostmauth and tiamat are any indicator. Though I still hate bop.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited February 2015
Hello for the poeple say about is gear improvement that why must need the item dont forget chests drop the same item.
i only accept the must "need" if wasnt there a chest.
And also how i can know if the person really need the item? can you guarantee me if in his bank have 10 draconic helmets or not?
So this is the rules as I perceive them:
* All marks and enchants -> need
* All purple gear -> greed (even if you actually need it.. currently nobody really need stuff since it is so cheap on AH)
* All blue stuff -> need
This is by far the most commonly used loot mechanic in the game and has been for some time. Also, the most common loot form in CN is to need everything until Drako since every class can use it.
That being said, I have been in a group where people got up in arms for a need roll on a rank 4 enchant....
If the group leader asks to greed enchants/whatever, then keep an eye on what everyone is rolling (need/greed) before you roll. If everyone seems to be waiting to see what everyone else it going to do then go ahead and click greed.
You are both incorrect, of course. The common sense is to follow the rule. Everybody can steal, it doesn't make it right.
I am with this person. Just because this is the internet doesn't mean you can throw your morals out the window. If you won't steal things in real life then DON'T DO IT IN A VIDEO GAME to other real people. NPCs I'll steal from all day (looking at you Skyrim), but they aren't real.
Everyone online should treat people the way they would treat them face to face. If you're an ***** in real life though, I can't help you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
... Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
...
In my view, anyone who thinks a player choosing need is "stealing" has a very distorted view of the world. Scamming you out of your login details and emptying your account is stealing. Choosing need is not stealing. It would be a strange game that regularly asked players "do you want to steal from your team members?" You should play the game as you find it and if the game offers you a need option then you are free to select it, regardless of what the self-righteous bullyboys say.
In my view, anyone who thinks a player choosing need is "stealing" has a very distorted view of the world. Scamming you out of your login details and emptying your account is stealing. Choosing need is not stealing. It would be a strange game that regularly asked players "do you want to steal from your team members?" You should play the game as you find it and if the game offers you a need option then you are free to select it, regardless of what the self-righteous bullyboys say.
<Cue the abusive replies....>
You are right, it is not stealing it is fraud. By joining a greed run you agree to the greed rule by conclusive behavior. You deceive ppl about the fact, that you will roll need. You get the item. The deception was causal for the fact, that you got the item, bc. they would not have taken you along, if the would have known, that you will roll need. You did it on purpose, thats fraud.
I dont think, that anyone would file criminal charges for items in a game, but AD = Zen = $, so ppl are rightfully pissed about ninja looters, imo.
Yep, that's a very distorted view of the world, right there.
I've played a sub game where if you could prove that someone went against the agreed on loot rules and you had screenshots of the agreement and them breaking it, they would bring out the ban hammer so no not really.
Yep, that's a very distorted view of the world, right there.
I dont know american criminal law, but you can look it up, § 263 StGB (german law). That was the german legal definition of fraud applied to ninja looting. Fits quite good. If ppl feel cheated, law says, it is cheating, I would say its cheating.
PPl think, that a certain kind of behavior is ok in games, bc it is neither real money nor real persons they are dealing with, but the persons in control of the other characters are ppl and bc of AD/Zen exhange you can determine a money value to each item.
I dont know american criminal law, but you can look it up, § 263 StGB (german law). That was the german legal definition of fraud applied to ninja looting. Fits quite good. If ppl feel cheated, law says, it is cheating, I would say its cheating.
PPl think, that a certain kind of behavior is ok in games, bc it is neither real money nor real persons they are dealing with, but the persons in control of the other characters are ppl and bc of AD/Zen exhange you can determine a money value to each item.
Additionally, there is the view propogated by many "ninja looters" claiming that these are fake/unreal/virtual items and that people should not get mad about it. however most people's viewpoints (as well as some laws like the one you mention, and more popping up slowly over time) show a much different story.
quite simply, virtual items are still earned, either via time/effort or money spent, and thus they do have value. even in legal systems, some courts are starting to follow this philosophy where they are able to. an item may not occupy physical space, but that does not make it any less real or valuable to many people.
conversely, I have to wonder, if these "ninja looters" really do believe these items are without value, then they have no good reason to steal them or do anything that is going to get the whole party mad. unless they want to be jerks, and nobody wants to play with jerks either.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited February 2015
Yeah, guild runs we always used a need roll for all enchantment items since nobody was class-restricted from them.
I understand why a lot of groups just do "greed all" because then everything that comes up on your screen is the same key combination and you don't have to think about it. Simple.
Sorry, im new to the game. I just need on what I think I need and greed on all I think I wanna have to sell. As I currently have few to none purples, I always need them. For my understanding, ›greed‹ is: "Hey girls, I'd just sell it, I have better gear than that, so I don't need it".
What's wrong with that?
As I understood:
Need: wanna have it for myself (that's why it cant be chosen for not-your-class items) Greed: well, would sell it because I got inventory free for it. Pass: not interested.
Sorry, im new to the game. I just need on what I think I need and greed on all I think I wanna have to sell. As I currently have few to none purples, I always need them. For my understanding, ›greed‹ is: "Hey girls, I'd just sell it, I have better gear than that, so I don't need it".
What's wrong with that?
As I understood:
Need: wanna have it for myself (that's why it cant be chosen for not-your-class items) Greed: well, would sell it because I got inventory free for it. Pass: not interested.
Isn't that the whole point of the 3-way-dialog?
No because you are assuming everyone in your party is at the same level of gear progression and has the same motives of running dungeons. That in itself is being selfish and short-sighted.
The best and only rule you have to follow is to ASK and COMMUNICATE to the party at the start whether it is a need run or a greed run.
Remember, this is an MMO and you play WITH other players.
No because you are assuming everyone in your party is at the same level of gear progression and has the same motives of running dungeons. That in itself is being selfish and short-sighted.
If he's below me, he'd need things I'd greed and if he's above me, he'd greed things i'd need. What would be the benefit of a "greed-run" ?
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
You risking to lose an item in favor of someone who will sell it. Or, as others would put it, "everyone should have the same chance at every drop regardless of who actually needs it".
Why should a mage have the same chance go get a "sword of mighty headache + 3.5" that's meant for a warrior like a warrior?
To expand farther, you need AD to advance your gear farther. The first step of getting the epic item is something that takes almost no time at all from the dungeon chests, etc. However gathering the AD for all the other stuff you need is the major need of everyone.
Ok weighing in here. This is the way it is standard in all mmos ive played except apparently NW:
Need: I will use it, the item is an upgrade for me. salvage or currency value is irrelevant
greed: wouldn't mind having it for currency or salvage value
pass: don't care about it, go to town fellow party members
As far as I am concerned this is what they mean, and if anyone disagrees with me, I will consider them trolls and put them on ignore status.
Ok weighing in here. This is the way it is standard in all mmos ive played except apparently NW:
Need: I will use it, it is an upgrade for me
greed: wouldn't mind having it for currency or salvage value
pass: don't care about it, go to town fellow party members
As far as I am concerned this is what they mean, and if anyone disagrees with me, I will consider them trolls and put them on ignore status.
The problem is that things went crazy in NW because unlike every other game, NW made things BoE instead of BtCoA. If things were BtCoA I'd agree with you.
Comments
I agree. IMO, rings, belts and neck should be need also, but I understand some people get confused.
I understand this is a AD grind to most people and i understand the greediness yet i still dont respect greed runs. Dont join them and you wont have to worry... hit the need button like a boss- if the greedy people cant respect that then forget them but i do like the greed button as a way of saying *meh, if no one else wants it ill take it*
forgive the momentary off topic reply, but I just want to say that for a third language, you type english better than most people for whom english is their first/only language.
these are my thoughts
people do the wrong things
how do you guess when
urlord
The thing I fear is if it was to become the norm. Though it may have shifted from bop from bosses to bop from the chest if kessels retreat, lostmauth and tiamat are any indicator. Though I still hate bop.
i only accept the must "need" if wasnt there a chest.
And also how i can know if the person really need the item? can you guarantee me if in his bank have 10 draconic helmets or not?
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
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Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
This is by far the most commonly used loot mechanic in the game and has been for some time. Also, the most common loot form in CN is to need everything until Drako since every class can use it.
That being said, I have been in a group where people got up in arms for a need roll on a rank 4 enchant....
If the group leader asks to greed enchants/whatever, then keep an eye on what everyone is rolling (need/greed) before you roll. If everyone seems to be waiting to see what everyone else it going to do then go ahead and click greed.
I am with this person. Just because this is the internet doesn't mean you can throw your morals out the window. If you won't steal things in real life then DON'T DO IT IN A VIDEO GAME to other real people. NPCs I'll steal from all day (looking at you Skyrim), but they aren't real.
Everyone online should treat people the way they would treat them face to face. If you're an ***** in real life though, I can't help you.
...
Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
...
How can you see what others are rolling?
the chat window
<Cue the abusive replies....>
You are right, it is not stealing it is fraud. By joining a greed run you agree to the greed rule by conclusive behavior. You deceive ppl about the fact, that you will roll need. You get the item. The deception was causal for the fact, that you got the item, bc. they would not have taken you along, if the would have known, that you will roll need. You did it on purpose, thats fraud.
I dont think, that anyone would file criminal charges for items in a game, but AD = Zen = $, so ppl are rightfully pissed about ninja looters, imo.
I've played a sub game where if you could prove that someone went against the agreed on loot rules and you had screenshots of the agreement and them breaking it, they would bring out the ban hammer so no not really.
I dont know american criminal law, but you can look it up, § 263 StGB (german law). That was the german legal definition of fraud applied to ninja looting. Fits quite good. If ppl feel cheated, law says, it is cheating, I would say its cheating.
PPl think, that a certain kind of behavior is ok in games, bc it is neither real money nor real persons they are dealing with, but the persons in control of the other characters are ppl and bc of AD/Zen exhange you can determine a money value to each item.
Additionally, there is the view propogated by many "ninja looters" claiming that these are fake/unreal/virtual items and that people should not get mad about it. however most people's viewpoints (as well as some laws like the one you mention, and more popping up slowly over time) show a much different story.
quite simply, virtual items are still earned, either via time/effort or money spent, and thus they do have value. even in legal systems, some courts are starting to follow this philosophy where they are able to. an item may not occupy physical space, but that does not make it any less real or valuable to many people.
conversely, I have to wonder, if these "ninja looters" really do believe these items are without value, then they have no good reason to steal them or do anything that is going to get the whole party mad. unless they want to be jerks, and nobody wants to play with jerks either.
I understand why a lot of groups just do "greed all" because then everything that comes up on your screen is the same key combination and you don't have to think about it. Simple.
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What's wrong with that?
As I understood:
Need: wanna have it for myself (that's why it cant be chosen for not-your-class items)
Greed: well, would sell it because I got inventory free for it.
Pass: not interested.
Isn't that the whole point of the 3-way-dialog?
No because you are assuming everyone in your party is at the same level of gear progression and has the same motives of running dungeons. That in itself is being selfish and short-sighted.
The best and only rule you have to follow is to ASK and COMMUNICATE to the party at the start whether it is a need run or a greed run.
Remember, this is an MMO and you play WITH other players.
If he's below me, he'd need things I'd greed and if he's above me, he'd greed things i'd need. What would be the benefit of a "greed-run" ?
people asked for this, remember. it was a SOLUTION not a problem.
Why should a mage have the same chance go get a "sword of mighty headache + 3.5" that's meant for a warrior like a warrior?
To expand farther, you need AD to advance your gear farther. The first step of getting the epic item is something that takes almost no time at all from the dungeon chests, etc. However gathering the AD for all the other stuff you need is the major need of everyone.
Need: I will use it, the item is an upgrade for me. salvage or currency value is irrelevant
greed: wouldn't mind having it for currency or salvage value
pass: don't care about it, go to town fellow party members
As far as I am concerned this is what they mean, and if anyone disagrees with me, I will consider them trolls and put them on ignore status.
The problem is that things went crazy in NW because unlike every other game, NW made things BoE instead of BtCoA. If things were BtCoA I'd agree with you.