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DDO vs Neverwinter
MMOGames' take on this epic struggle, with what is assuredly an obvious outcome . . . .
http://www.mmogames.com/gamearticles/versus-dungeons-dragons-online-vs-neverwinter/
http://www.mmogames.com/gamearticles/versus-dungeons-dragons-online-vs-neverwinter/
Definitely not an Arc User.
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Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
I'm quite certain that Cryptic will eventually iron things out, because stakes are pretty high... other than STO (which is an entirely different creature, it caters to a different crowd), NW is their major fantasy IP, if they fail here, they will hardly recover. For instance, I'm pretty sure I won't be playing GenericFantasyMMO#3521 (somebody said Swordsman?) by Cryptic/PW.
Cryptic had a very long time to iron things out. I'd say mod 6 is the final decider for those that still latched on.
I thought Mod 5 and the Tiamat raid was the "final decider"?
Thats as far as I will go as well, Start of mod 6 has to change some stuff.
RP is my #1 concern its way to gated and locks out multiple toons from playing. I have no issue giving up a few percentage points (like other turbine type games Ive played) to play 3-4 toons , but its now to the point, you are giving up 50-100% MORE if you don't just play one toon, thats unacceptable and I havent played a MMO (that Ive stayed more then a few weeks) that do that sort of thing.
Eventually most other MMOs revamp past content to allow it to be breezed through (I really dont have a complaint about current pathing , boon 6-7 a little crazy on ToD) but I do have massive complaints on RP.
Instead of giving us requested content (more DD's) they decided to give us the exact opposite, less DD's and more solo grind work (boo, times 1000x)
In addition they have made PVP near impossible to enter, with the top 5% who can easily roll over anyone else and control matches easily.
This game hasnt gotten better, its gotten worse in the last 2 modes easily. Thats a troubling concern.
UPD Are there any experienced DDO players reading this? Please contact me via PM, got some questions about that game ^^
WTB Class Reroll please
Yep. This is certainly true for many of us. Based on my preview experiences so far, I'm not optimistic. So little done with so much potential and grinding/refining/farming copy+pasted in lieu of original content.
It probably was for some people. But with mod 6, they hyped it up. And if something they hype doesn't devlier, then you know that's the end of the line for you.
For me I already stayed longer than I should have but meh.
For me, Mod 5 was acceptable compared to their other modules. There's still issues which makes a big statement, but at least for some time I had a realistic goal to strive for, ie I could actually farm an off hand and artifact cloak. That is more than anything since mod 1. The boons were done badly though.
Well legendaries and rank 10s were already a tough thing to achieve without buying them out, having 4 times the effort to max perfects and get rank 12s would definitely be a deterrent. Something I'd be fine with happening. Of course they could reduce coal costs and stuff and make it a little more workable, but it would take a massive change of hard to make up for all of the previous issues. They'd also need to make dungeons farmable again, something I've been saying since mod 2 and sort of mod 1 (which I hoped was a one off with how unfarmable it was.
I too have decided to neglect alts due to it not being worth the effort to work on them. Something I've been playing recently actually doesn't bind gear so you can just swap it on alts whenever you like or trade it. I do like the freedom, but hope they don't get greedy or neglect issues. It's more light hearted than this game, but so far it's been a nice break.
I'm curious as why don't Wotc include it in its expansions or anything.
'cause it's in the Eberron universe and most people prefer the Faerun universe.
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
Just wanted to point out that Swordsman isn't a Cryptic game. It's produced by some other development studio. It's also not a random generic setting, it's a licensed setting from a series of books. It's still a complete fail of a game. but I can understand how Wuxia fans where looking forward to it. As far as I'm aware it's the only Wuxia style game with a licensed, known, setting.
For me, I just cannot stand Eberron, so I just rarely even play it anymore. I thought it would grow on me, but the more I played it, the more I despised the campaign setting. The only reason I log in every now and then is to slowly advance to unlock the Forgotten Realms content. When I do, I'll probably resub for a while just to play that content alone.
Unless its a Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Planescape, Spelljammer, or Ravenloft title, I won't ever pick up a D&D title again. Even still, I'll always prefer any Forgotten Realms title over any other.
(by Realms Title, I also include Kara-Tur, Chult, and Al-Quadim, as they're all on the same planet)
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So, which game is better? It depends what you are looking for. DDO is better for those who wish to play in a group. Quests have different difficulty settings you can adjust for when you add people to your party (up to 6 for normal questing, 12 for raids). Neverwinter is built from the ground up for 1 to 3 man parties all the way to the top excluding end game, when a full party finally becomes really useful/necessary. Both games can be soloed fairly easily.
Turbine has done a much better job staying true to D&D books... so many more options for character creation, weapons, combat, UI and dungeon design. In DDO I fight monsters. In Neverwinter I fight... red blotches on the floor.
Turbine has also done better supporting the PUG community, offering real detailed Looking for Group option. They support guilds and pugs better due to having a VOiP that actually works. There is no gating built into the game other than level. This is a great system that's very D&D like. All gating is removed from levels 21 to end game outside of flagging for certain raids, opening up a huge amount of content that constitutes the end game.
The truth? F2P is a GIMMICK. Period. Neither Turbine nor Cryptic develop their game for free players. They both develop their game for gamers who'll spend money. Whether you pay for content, or pay for something in the in-game store, you are buying something, period. Think you will pay less? Only in the beginning. Truth is most people that hang around are paying for the game on a regular basis. Either way, that's a good thing. If they don't make money, the game is over.
Sure you can play Neverwinter truly for FREE... but once you play the story to the top, do you really want to play it again? How many times? Replayability is a real focus of DDO developers. I think both developers suffer here. But the failure of Cryptic devs to do anything at ALL with the Foundry shows a lack of passion that really starts at the very top of the food chain at PW/Cryptic. Its why they lost so many Neverwinter Nights/RPG/D&D folks so quickly out of the gate.
Neverwinter's biggest black eye is the Foundry. To leave such a great concept for dead was a major fail. The Foundry is what brought me over from DDO. The Foundry is how you talk to the dungeon masters, the D&D folks.
The engine and visuals are the strength of Neverwinter. Those awesome backdrops and the dungeon detail.
I LIKE Neverwinter. But my personal belief is that Cryptic needs to change course. Gamers can only stay entertained for so long. Guilds can only keep their guildies entertained for so long. And if gamers dont care about their characters THEY WONT BE BACK.
Its not the content right now that's the problem as much as the game itself. It needs a refocus, and a redesign from the ground up and they need to DOUBLE DOWN on the D&D community.
Cryptic has the potential to bring the D&D folks back, and bring in many more. This is a winner game that needs a serious systems overhaul and a D&D infusion that caters to D&D gamers of old (RPGers, Neverwinter Nights community looking for an MMO group experience, and of course Pen & Paper D&D players of old). Use that IP baby, or lose it.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
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I'm with ya there Zeb. FR all the way for me. Greyhawk, Dragonlance... those are the old days.
DDO you can play in the FR too. Some great quests and raids out there.
Neverwinter has a big advantage on the look of towns .. the landscape. I hope cryptic pays attention to the community even more than they have, and add in lots of what we are asking for.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?832451-Interactive-Poll-The-Top-20-Fixes-You-d-Make-to-Neverwinter-in-2015!
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
I really wanna like it but the ***** is making really hard for me.
For instance, the first few characters I got to 60 were played with white companions, white mounts, and had green or blue gear for a good while, upon reaching level 60. They also only had the 18 and 12 slot bags you get for free. Of course, after playing a bit more, farming some ADs, and making the conscious decision to make this "my game" for the time being, I invested in a better mount, and couldn't imagine havign to go back.
That being said, I would much prefer having things like mounts, companions, storage space, and so forth, gated behind a paywall, rather than having quests, zones, or classes restricted in much the same way...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
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As for characters not looking unique in Neverwinter, I personally haven't found them to be any more generic than DDO characters. These are just to name a few things that popped out at me.
Oh, and dragonborn isn't available in the zen store? Yes it is! In fact, you can even buy just the race at a lower price than the whole pack.
So basically, I'd take this article with a grain of salt.
We are free of course to like either, neither or both games. Our guild of course is active in both games and have been since the beginning. I like both games for what they are, and I dislike both games for what they are not.
However, the comments you make above here are patently false. "90% of quests can't be completed for months at a time???" When exactly was this???? This is simply an incorrect statement.
Both games have those who choose to exploit, neither Cryptic nor Turbine have come down fast enough in my opinion, but they have without question done the best they could with the resources they have at hand.
Not a single exploit has affected our guild in either game. If you dont cheat, then other than hoping for an expeditious reply from the developers, we just play the game.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
The 90% was after the physics engine changes shortly after they released their first expansion. 9 out of 10 runs would have a mob required for completion of the quest randomly get stuck in the wall, it was released in august iirc and not fixed till after halloween.
I haven't played DDO in about 2 years, but I am certain I have played both DDO and Neverwinter far more than that reviewer. In fact I am pretty certain that he never even got remotely close to max level in DDO.
- DDO is a much more loyal adaption of D&D rules (3.5). That is both good and bad, in fact, what everyone discovered was that D&D D20 doesn't scale into an end-game elegantly. If I was going to give it a primary knock it would be that. The way the game plays if you don't specialize is silly. It is wonderful though for class building.
- DDO takes more money than Neverwinter. Don't be mislead! There are items behind walls, and there is easier exp behind walls. Are the walls, "pay walls?" No less than say a "coalescing ward". Why no less? Well I never payed cash for a ward--no need to easy to get, but I felt compelled to pay cash to get past walls in DDO. The grind is real.
- DDO has more content than NEverwinter. Miles more. If you do pay for VIP you will find it literred with missions that are much the same as T2 in Neverwinter. Except for literally you can level up by playing them all once. There is that many. Okay coming from neverwinter that doesn't sound like much, but once you get into DDO and realize how long a level takes you will appreciate how much content that is! Here picture this: imagine every daily mission in Neverwinter is now a full fledged T2 dungeon. Okay picturing it? DDO has more content than that! But you have to pay to get to it all (you can grind it in much the same way you grind AD for zen in Neverwinter), but you will pay in someway.
- So you level fast in DDO? Heck no. DDO takes months to get to max level when played from the start?
- The core item design in DDO is much different than NEverwinter. In neverwinter, getting gear for your new levels is automatic. Buy a blue off the market, so cheap it isn't even funny. DDO you go through phases: you level (phase 1). You get destroyed in new content (phase 2). You get new items for new level (phase 3). You destroy new content and level (phase 4). Past the teens you can really feel these phases. As you get nearer 20 and the past that. The phases are obvious and intense. You can ignore gear for a couple levels, but eventually it will become an issue. You will not level easily without somehow updating your gear, and it starts to be a matter of doing much the same effort as say "finishing a t2 set". It takes research and a concerted effort to get the right items to continue easily for your build.
If you go into it expecting, "I will pay less than Neverwinter because some reviewer (who probably never even got past level 12) said it was easy" you will be surprised. On the other hand, if you go into it going, "ehh VIP here I come" you will find a mature game that rewards being good."
That said, the end-game builds have to be just right or you will be useless (at the elite end game), and you can expect to take months just to get there, and many more months to really be top tier. Assuming you pay VIP.
To me it was all good fun, except for one sticky issue: those that don't pay grind a ton, and those that do can be seperated from those that don't. It is difficult to keep friends inline with each other, and that gets to be an issue. I know people read that and go, "like rank 9/10s?" No. Rank 9s and 10s barely matter in PvE. The effort might be comparable, but the difference between the "haves" and "have nots" in Neverwinter is not that big provided you put the same kind of effort into Neverwinter that it takes just to level easily in DDO. In DDO, the pve haves and have nots are hugely separate. You don't even play the same game. Imagine rank 10s couldn't be bought, made you 3 times as powerful as someone with rank 8s, could only be acquired by getting past a "pay wall, and you start to get a sense of DDOs end game.
So why don't I play DDO? AT the end of the day, Neverwinter is more fun to play, when you are actually doing real dungeons and not a daily grind. It comes down to that. Neverwinter is just more fun.
Im in awe that you say every DDO patch qualifies as a Caturday level fiasco? Really??? So DDO performs a rollback every patch?? Total Grade-A malarkey. I remember one rollback that encompassed a few minutes in January 2013. I dont recall any others, perhaps you can detail any additional rollbacks charononus?
That's a malpractice level of gross exaggeration.
The physics engine was updated in U13 Patch 2 (May 2012). There were some kinks to work out, as would be expected with an engine update and they did a heck of a job doing it.
It took a few months to fix what you are referring to in 2012 after the MoTU release (June 2012). I remember issue starting in early November and the fix came in mid-December. It was a very complex fix but easy for the devs to reproduce so they were able to fix it in short order.
It happened in random quests, and not everyone experienced it. I remember I experienced it. But I never met a single player that quit the game over it. 90% quests not completable??? Just untrue.
During this 2-3 month period of time maybe 3 or 4 quests became unfinisheable for me? And that's on the high side if Im not spot on. And only ONE of the quests the GM couldnt fix, and we had to restart. We were able to finish it with no problems.
I understand you wish to totally trash the game, and you have that right, but grossly untrue statements are unnecessary.
I firmly believe the Turbine and Cryptic teams do fabulous work making their games work with their engines.
Again, Im a fan of both games. Tyrs Paladium is vibrant in both gaming communities and we fully support Turbine and Cryptic.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Roll backs maybe not, but there should have been.
After their second expansion there was a period where for 3 months anything that went into a bag could be duped. That was fixed but they didn't fix that the boxes that sold past lives and astral shards could be duped, giving people infinite money and completionist status. You could also go and equip endgame gear to characters at level 1 from another exploit at that time. These exploits were known and reported but not fixed for months.
I think you have a delusional rememberance of that time. And as far as no one left, I did for about six months because of it and came back just in time for the exploit a palooza of the second expansion. The night before I left I played for 4 hours, and completed zero quests. I tried waiting for assistance from a gm but gave up after sitting at the end of the quest for two hours.
I understand you think the game is still worth playing but from where I stand you're lying like mad about how that game works.
Ok so we can scratch out your Caturday every DDO patch claim.
Yes there were exploits. But there were also punishments handed out, and a fix. This didnt affect anyone's game who was playing the game honestly, the way the game were intended to be played, which was the great majority of players.
There is no one more anti-exploit than me, and looking back you can see I've been all over Turbine and Cryptic requesting exploiters get punished, but the reality is both games have experienced major exploits that have taken weeks or even months to figure out fixes. There's more bad guys then devs. Its a nature of dealing with MMO games from a development perspective and from a gaming perspective.
So you only took a 6 month break from playing a game you despise so much?? Then you went back?! Sure I know many who have all called for a DM and had to wait. I've got those stories to tell of the long gm waits. But I can tell you just as many if not more stories that they responded right away, or within 10 minutes.
Since 2005, the percentage of times I was in a position to NEED a gm because of a bug? .00001% out of thousands of quests? Who knows. I haven't contacted a GM in DDO because of a bug in 2013 or 2014. Not once.
Ok, now where have I "lied like mad" about DDO? Specific details please. DDO and Neverwinter are extremely playable games.
You are free to contact me via pm to schedule a run with me one on one. We can discuss in much further detail.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
What do I mean? DDO is loyal to the concept of a day as a finite resource, and to manage that they put resource nodes in each dungeon at strategic spots that refresh all your "per a day". This includes health, spells, spell points, etc.
What it means is DDO is very much a dungeon crawl with resource management. What is very refreshing about it as a design is it took "real life time" out of the equation. Generally sitting or blowing real life time waiting for something to refresh does nothing. Coming from a game tradition like Everquest that was amazing. It meant no matter how beat up you are, no matter how depleted your resources, no matter how badly things are going, there is basically no advantage to "waiting in real life". Press on. Use resources better next time.
That doesn't mean as much from Neverwinter's perspective since they basically said, "everything refreshes constantly, thus no waiting" Resource management is a management takes maybe a 2 minute cool down, but most of the time it is just spam what is available as the "rotation" becomes available.
One of the results of this is DDO very much rewards knowing when resources will be refreshed (something you can look up if you please), because you tend to go light until hard fights, and then go hard on resources. If you get that right you will be this optimized stud, and if you get that wrong and blow to much to early you will be limping in to the actual hard stuff praying for a resource refresh.