Right now, on test, a GWF can get around 110k HP poll with 20k on power just aiming for power [stats from a GWF i just saw on test Trade of Blades] . Is that bad for a TANK? i dont think so.
Actually yeah it is, because GWFs need about 100% damage bonus to deal the damage other classes get. So a GWF with 20k Power is the same as another class with like 8k Power.
The plain fact of the matter is that GWFs BASE damage is so bad, and each module they "bandaid" it by adding more and more damage buffs without addressing the REAL problem: BASE damage.
They added +20% Mark damage boost, We get like 12+% from CA, we get 15%+ from Powerful Challenge and EVEN WITH all of that, the class STILL does <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> DPS. Shoot even with full Destroyer stacks up at 50% MORE damage boost we still do mediocre damage. Its only when you add ANOTHER 60%+ damage from the Detroyer FEAT in PVE that you see GOOD damage.
So you could literally give the Sentinel GWF 200:1 meaning Power:1% Damage, lets Sent GWFS stack up to 20k Power which would be 100% damage boost and they would STILL get massively OUT DPSd by nearly ANY class AND STILL be much more squishy than TRs/Hrs/CWs/DCs/GFs etc....
You cant just look at raw stats because GWFs seem like Monsters.
120k+ HP, 20k Power, 40%+ Deflect, 40%+ Crit(weapon Master) You might be thinking "whats the problem? look at all of this"
Fact of the matter is though. 20k Power means NOTHING with our horrible base damage.
The issue though, if they increase base damage they will HAVE to nerf Detroyer for PVE purposes. If they do this as well, GWF is not even good in PVP at all, so buffing all the base damage will STILL not address the PVP issues, nerfing Destroyer will STILL not make them viable in PVP or balanced in PVP itll just make them worse.
This is why I keep saying we need to pick and choose what to give feedback on. They will not re-work out class, only minor changes so we need to be VERY precise with feedback.
FEEDBACK: INTIMIDATION
- Deals too low damage right now. Needs to be brought up to about 250% Weapon damage AND damage bonuses need to work with it (like it does on live). I dont like it working off power.
I could ALSO see this ability instead transformed into a DPS mechanic rather than a "burst" so it would work more like DCs "Fire of the Gods" where it deals 100% weapon damage every second for 15 seconds.
Given that this is off a LONG CD and NOT a crit it seems fair. ALSO this removes the benefit of slotting TWO "intimidation" abilities since it would only proc once and would NOT stack.
This seems like the most reasonable as it does good DPS, is NOT a burst damage ability BUT! It removes that you can use it 2x and would only get real benefit from ONE encounter - each has their own benefits.
I know, i were the first one to tell you all that our base damage were nerfed, remember? but we are talking about "22k base damage power" to use intimidation feat, not as "GWF's base damage". I talk about "base damage buff" on other point on my buffs. +30% + double damage on Unstop shall do the trick here.
But noone of this will happen, they wont make drastic changes to the class THIS close to a module. Now maybe if your proposing this for module 7 or 8, but then again who knows what will happen by that time....
If they want to fix intimidation, honestly the best way to do it is to just copy another classes mechanic like DCs "fire of the Gods" but DCs feat is off a crit, ours would be off an ability. So its pretty fair IMO. 100% weapon damage every second for 15 seconds. Done. Same coding as DC feat but instead of off a proc its off CAGI or DS.
For the REST of the class while (again) there are a million things we can propose and fix. At the end of the day we need to look at the path of least resistance. For ALL GWFS that is:
1) Temp HP from Unstoppable -Needs to either be NOT affected by HD or it needs to be based on number of hits - allowing for ABOUT the same amount of Temp HP both in PVE and PVP. This is too much of a crutch for the class, if you over buff it itll be FAR too good in PVE and good in PVP or it will be good in PVE but suck in PVP - where it is now.
As mentioned before BEST case scenario that I CONSTRUCTED in pvp with the help of teammates. I got <13k Temp HP from a FULL unstoppable bar. With the MOST damage buffs our class can muster. This is NOT enough. Especially considering that NO GWF will ever yhave the luxury of WAITING to use unstoppable for a FULL Bar.
This could also fall under the category of a BUG since Destroyer stacks + Destroyer Captsone + Power + STR put me WELL about 100% damage bonus, We are SUPPOSED To get 8-16% * damage bonus. On a Target Dummy I was able to get a TON of Temp HP (like 50k+) but in PVP best case is 13k? Temp HP?
OH For this 13k I was also using Trans FeyTouched which would have been another 18% however that didnt seem to apply EITHER.
For ALL these reasons instead of fixing coding/bugs etc or worrying about damage bonus balance, just make it a FLAT 4-5% EITHER per second (not affected by HD) or PER HIT (WITH HD - potentialyl with a .5 second ICD allowing for proper #s in pvp)
2) Stacking - NO other class is FORCED to rely on stacking like we are. The biggest issues are weapon master stacks and Destroyer stacks, they are FAR too short for PVP purposes. THis is something DPS tests or PVE tests CANNOT show you. The stacks needs to last 8+ seconds each OR last the entire duration you are in combat.
Second to this are Destroyer Capstone stacks - should NOT be reliant on Unstoppable. Should build them anytime anywhere off any attack and last the same as above 8+ seconds.
Instagator stacks - again only last a few seconds after getting attacked? Great in PVE however you cant FORCE someone to attack you in PVP. These need a MASSIVE increase in duration. 10+ Seconds MINIMUM.
3) Determination - ALL GWFs need to build determination off DEALING damage. PERIOD. This should not be restricted to the Destroyer class.
4) Stamina Gain -Our stamina gain is the WORST of ANY class. We get 5 seconds to sprint every 20+ seconds. Even stacking stamina gain does next to nothing for us.
Possible solutions are to give insta- stamina refill each unstoppable pop. Another was to increase the BASE gain. Another was to make STR = 2% stam gain up from 1%. OR yet ANOTHER could be to rework "Fast Runner" to be JUST like "Fleet Footed" for TR - a 10% stamina gain boost.
ALl are possible options.
OVERALL GWFs NEED: 1) Better Temp HP from unstoppable IN PVP - preferably NOT tied to damage bonus.
2) Better "stacking system" - with a LARGE LARGE LARGE amount of damage reliant upon stacks, the current "stacking" system is VERY poor.
3) Better CONTROL over our access to Unstoppable - not just HP % lost but damage dealt as well (preferably on a PRE-DR basis too BTW)
4) Better Stamina Gain Currently its VERY bad in PVP.
Then FINALLY we DO need a FIX to Intimidation, so again. Just make it like Fire of the Gods for DCs: 100% weapon damage every second for 15 seconds. Copy/Paste the coding. Itll be GOOD DPS that procs off an ECOUNTER - rather than a CRIT (like DCs) And actualyl FREE UP a slot for GWFs -encounters who run this.
Then, overall buff: just bring back the template used by GWF back on mod 3. They (devs) will not need to code a single thing but fixing some bugs (roar's bug and others), improve some other mechanics (Intimidation, Destroyer's captstone to be updated as it is on this mod5 and so ont) and we will have all our deserved buffs at once.
Im not sure if this would even fix us LOL! The old template we didnt get CA+20% damage off Mark. So we would be losing considerable damage.
Plus, being honest, as much as I would love that it would never happen. They will never revert BACK to something and they will never make THIS many sweeping changes 8 days before module. They will make small tweaks and I hope those PRIMARILY are:
[*]Great Weapon Fighter
Class Features: Destroyer - Destroyer stacks will now last as long as you are in combat. Leaving combat removes all stacks.
Class Features: Weapon Master stacks will now last as long as you are in combat. Leaving combat removes all stacks.
Determination Gain: All GWFs now build determination on both HP lost and damage dealt. This no longer is restricted to Destroyers.
Temporary Health: Temp HP granted off Unstoppable is now 4% temp HP each time you are struck in unstoppable. This cannot proc more than once every .5 seconds. Healing Depression is still in effect.
Intimidation: Now deals 100% Weapon damage every second for 15 seconds. Does not stack.
Stamina Gain: Base Stamina gain increase ~20%.
Destroyers Purpose: Stacks now are applied off any attack and have an uptime of 10 seconds. Additional stacks reset the total stack duration.
Istigator's Vengeance: Stacks now last as long as you are in combat. Leaving will now remove all stacks.
and GFs just got +20% dmg to all powers why they couldnt do the same to GWFs in the 1st place?
anyway the real problem is our survaviblity atm a class thats forced to facetank just simply cannot do it.
GWF as a class has design flaw in m6 we cant deal dmg cause we cant take dmg.
To your first point - then they would have to nerf something in destroyer or dest GWFs will be monsters in PVE, given that fact, and that we are already NOT in a good spot for PVP Id rather have them just give universal buffs to our REAL issue that you described as well:
Survivability is horrible. Also to your point, we cant deal damage because we cant take damage and we cant even AVOID damage if we want either - like classes that can dodge.
Maybe they need to make DODGE no longer "immune" but just "increased DR" like GWF has - make it fair. See how much QQ happens because classes would be more "squishy". How is that for fair LOL!
this will not be done, but dont worth trying... make the "shift" of gwf a dodge move (can be the rogue animation) and turn "jump" the sprint (need jump? Use mleap).
the rest:
buff the general damage for 10%
powers up in 25% of damage per rank (instead of 10)... our damage comes from the specialization.
Disciple of War: x% of your power is arp.
destroyer paragon:during unstoppable, your encounter do +30% of damage. point
agree to ayroux; all trees receive determination dealing damage.
up the class features for 6 secs.
now you have a solid and dinamic "non faceroll" class...
Well I hope the DEVs take all this feedback seriously, you know its true when the feedback thread as the MOST number of repsonses OVER the new class, and ontop of that you see posts like this in OTHER classes feedback as well as the AMA reddit thread....
i don´t know and don´t understand it either, but probably there is an other "bigger plans" to make a class in one mod less attractive and boost it in the next mod?
so in this scenario next class will be the GWF, than probably warlock, since GWF is more or less on the bottom of all classes, like a phoenix from the ashes
Classes
i would ask why GWF class was nerfed to the ground and then refused by devs to be brought back on other classes lvls.
I spoke to Panderus about GWfs during the Friday PVP event, he says their tests have shown GWFs to be about the same as everyone else.
I treid to respectfully disagree with him, however it didnt seem like he trusted my feedback, discounting it saying that most people have not tested lvl 70 pvp yet.
I would say that based on my experience since BETA, its pretty easy to see the state of GWFs without testing. Now that I have tested lvl 70 PVP on my GWF, its EVEN MORE apparent that we are the weaklings of PVP.
GFs can block for 20-30 seconds + have massive group benefits, whittle your HP down as you cannot damage them.
DCs - literally unkillable for a GWF. We literally deal 0 damage to them.
TRs - cant catch them, SEd for 60-70k+ with no way to avoid it...
Need I go on?
I am offering my help to help BALANCE the class rather than continue down the path of duct-tape and bandages that we keep doing module after module.
To FIX the class you cannnot put off changes and you cannot do SWEEPING MAJOR changes but small MINOR ones.
Have they really said that GWF is the same level as others...
my 14.6k rogue at 60 (not using plaguefire or flaming) can outdps my 20.2k GWF (both the level 60, and the level 70 version wearing full level 70 purple gear and a pure vorpal) by almost double his damage for the 60, and moderately higher damage than the level 70. This was tested over 1 minute of combat on a training dummy. I can re-do this test and post combat damage logs if required and probably still get quite similar results.
The point Ayroux makes about SE is very true, the DR from sprint doesnt help here and it don't have an actual dodge mechanic.
How is this "classes on the same level" You might say "oh but GWF is tankier" But the truth there is we aren't, We may have higher DR / defence, but this doesnt matter when in PvP a lot of high damage sources ignore DR and deflect , also at 70 the scaling on our DR and deflect is shocking and we have under 30% dr even with higher defence levels like 6k and above. our feats that Address effectiveness of AC and defence need to be increased, as does our hp pool / temp hp.
There is so much weak about our class in both PvE and PvP at the moment, and It feels like we're basically being given up on.
I'm also concerned about the new pvp at 70. there is only 2 PvP sets for 70 that provide tenacity. and one of them costs ~80,000 glory, the other is at lest 2-3 months of farming IWD. how would a NEW player or "free" player manage to farm this without suffering flaming and extremely low returns (remember if someone gets under a set number of points they dont even get glory.)
At 60 we had 3 tiers of PVP gear, so you could buy the lower tier, (even buy it in AH) then slowly farm glory up to the new stuff. they cant do that at 70 and as such would be entering in with PvE gear on and not benefit from the tenacity ARpen resist and Damage resistance.
We already know that sometimes PvP players can be quite "toxic" when it comes to undergeared people and this definitely wouldn't help that, though that's probably going to happen regardless
I spoke to Panderus about GWfs during the Friday PVP event, he says their tests have shown GWFs to be about the same as everyone else.
I treid to respectfully disagree with him, however it didnt seem like he trusted my feedback, discounting it saying that most people have not tested lvl 70 pvp yet.
really hard to believe they test stuff. with all the bugs in preview that goes live, how are we gonna take panderus' word that he tests stuff?
You can't take him seriously. 'Same as everyone else' means also 'same as TR'. Blatantly false. Time to change their 'tests'? And actually try to play the game? They failed greatly at balancing classes so far for 5 full modules. And they don't trust our feedback? Are you serious...lol...
Feedback: unstoppable
The class mechanic is useless for survivability. Too much DPS going right through DR. Turn it to deflect and deflect severity. My 11k HR is tankier than a 18k GWF. Determination gain nerf was enough. Buff unstoppable back to being a good survivability tool and respect its name. The mechanic is far behind that of other classes.
after the curves, i dont believe more in minor changes. and this response of dev just shows that they really dont have martial (game) culture to understand a single feedback of this thread.
sad read that. really sad. you can see why some trolls have destroyed this game so much.
You can't take him seriously. 'Same as everyone else' means also 'same as TR'. Blatantly false. Time to change their 'tests'? And actually try to play the game? They failed greatly at balancing classes so far for 5 full modules. And they don't trust our feedback? Are you serious...lol...
Feedback: unstoppable
The class mechanic is useless for survivability. Too much DPS going right through DR. Turn it to deflect and deflect severity. My 11k HR is tankier than a 18k GWF. Determination gain nerf was enough. Buff unstoppable back to being a good survivability tool and respect its name. The mechanic is far behind that of other classes.
What if Unstoppable AND "sprint" instead of granting ANY DR just gave us 50-100% Deflect chance?
In a sense you "deflect all blows" etc etc.
You wouldnt even REALLY need any severity TBH, if we can get 30% DR, that would take 10,000 damage down to 7k then deflected down to 3,500 Damage for an "equiv" of 65% DR. Then it could be mitigated down by tenacity ETC for even more.
If a TR gets 100% critical in Stealth, I dont see why GWF cant achieve 100% deflect in unstoppable or in sprint.
I agree with this, my ONLY reservation would be the boon "Fey Thistle" because that would turn us into deflect monsters, but I do like the idea MUCH better than DR TBH.
This wouldnt also affect things like SE/Piercing damage tho, which is another issue...
What if Unstoppable AND "sprint" instead of granting ANY DR just gave us 50-100% Deflect chance?
In a sense you "deflect all blows" etc etc.
You wouldnt even REALLY need any severity TBH, if we can get 30% DR, that would take 10,000 damage down to 7k then deflected down to 3,500 Damage for an "equiv" of 65% DR. Then it could be mitigated down by tenacity ETC for even more.
If a TR gets 100% critical in Stealth, I dont see why GWF cant achieve 100% deflect in unstoppable or in sprint.
I agree with this, my ONLY reservation would be the boon "Fey Thistle" because that would turn us into deflect monsters, but I do like the idea MUCH better than DR TBH.
This wouldnt also affect things like SE/Piercing damage tho, which is another issue...
Fey thistle would be strong and all. but people don't HAVE to attack us while we are unstoppable, if anything unstoppable should be when attacking us is a bad idea. like how its hard to attack rogues when they are stealthed, and how when GF is blocking they take 80% less damage. they can just kite and then start afterwards. also ITC gives 100% deflect as does the HR daily. Plus piercing damage would still hit through it so we wouldnt be unkillable.
I actually REALLY like this idea. it definitely helps our survivability inside unstoppable. we'd still be squishy outside though. it also makes Fey thistle kind of a Required boon for us. we should have an actual feat that reflects some damage whenever we deflect to go with this, or a class feature that does this.
This also goes with the idea that GWF is about DR AND DEFLECT (which are the dominant stats on our defensive gear). as we have bravery + another feature to further make our deflect stronger, and Sentinel can be a Deflect/DR hybrid tank that deals damage on deflects.
What would sentinel capstone do though instead of raising DR from unstoppable? or would instead unstoppable give no dr but just flat 100% deflect and CC immune for 4-8 seconds, and the sentinel capstone makes it add DR / increase temp HP gain? any ideas here? I feel this is something that could turn us around from a survivability standpoint.
What would sentinel capstone do though instead of raising DR from unstoppable? or would instead unstoppable give no dr but just flat 100% deflect and CC immune for 4-8 seconds, and the sentinel capstone makes it add DR / increase temp HP gain? any ideas here? I feel this is something that could turn us around from a survivability standpoint.
Well the Sentinel Capstone could instead give +25% Deflect Severity.
This would make all GWFs not as "tanky" per-se however utilize deflect REALLY well. Unstoppable+Sprint would grant 100% deflect chance, Sentinel Capstone would give an extra +25% Deflect Severity.
The only thing that makes me nervous is our low DR, however I think this could be a very interesting re-work. This would also need to be in conjunction with the other changes:
1) Stacking buffs
2) temp HP increase
3) Stamina gain
4) determination gain
5) Intimidation
|NOW 6) Unstoppable+Sprint changed to 100% deflect chance.
ALL of these things would make me MUCH more happy for module 6 rather than VERY hesitant and leery about my future in the game, not that I would quit at all, but I have been very unmotivated to pvp recently because when I do I literally get 1 shot by TRs. I reflect back module 1 when any class could compete with any class - to an extent.
Now it seems our class isnt even given the tools to compete 1v1 and the excuse we get is its not balanced around 1v1s. Well thats great and all but its not even balanced 5v5 of team play because if it is... Whats the roll of the GWF - the target?
I really wish the DEVs would listen to all this feedback. The players that are sticking with GWF still have faith, however the players that are still here are not the 13 year olds looking for a god-like class. We just want a viable one.....
Well the Sentinel Capstone could instead give +25% Deflect Severity.
This would make all GWFs not as "tanky" per-se however utilize deflect REALLY well. Unstoppable+Sprint would grant 100% deflect chance, Sentinel Capstone would give an extra +25% Deflect Severity.
The only thing that makes me nervous is our low DR, however I think this could be a very interesting re-work. This would also need to be in conjunction with the other changes:
1) Stacking buffs
2) temp HP increase
3) Stamina gain
4) determination gain
5) Intimidation
|NOW 6) Unstoppable+Sprint changed to 100% deflect chance.
ALL of these things would make me MUCH more happy for module 6 rather than VERY hesitant and leery about my future in the game, not that I would quit at all, but I have been very unmotivated to pvp recently because when I do I literally get 1 shot by TRs. I reflect back module 1 when any class could compete with any class - to an extent.
Now it seems our class isnt even given the tools to compete 1v1 and the excuse we get is its not balanced around 1v1s. Well thats great and all but its not even balanced 5v5 of team play because if it is... Whats the roll of the GWF - the target?
I really wish the DEVs would listen to all this feedback. The players that are sticking with GWF still have faith, however the players that are still here are not the 13 year olds looking for a god-like class. We just want a viable one.....
Its a really cool mechanic because it gives us our own unique method of tanking, We have the GWF as the hard DR tank, the paladin as the sustain healing tank, and GWF as more of a Deflect / agile offtank, makes our role of taking adds more useful and gives us better solo potential as well as group potential.
they could at least try it. I mean what is there really too lose if its tried via the preview server, if we suddenly become unkillable demigods at 70, then we know its too strong, While if the feedback from GWF comes back as positive, and other classes dont raise a shocking storm about the change, then suddenly all the GWF players have a change they're really happy about.
(I wouldnt take results from 60 as seriously as results from 70 as most people who pvp GWF are in BiS 20-25k gs at 60 so naturally would be a lot stronger than the more average <15k average people )
really hard to believe they test stuff. with all the bugs in preview that goes live, how are we gonna take panderus' word that he tests stuff?
They are operating a "free" game with a dwindling income so what do you expect? Quality development needs money
GWF Sentinel - there should be a trade-off, go Destroyer do great damage, go Sentinel lose the damage but become nigh impossible to kill. This is missing. Right now on Preview the Sentinel is not much tougher than a Destroyer with much less damage
Grand Fissure - this top level ability is worthless with the damage reduction it received from the last Patch. Way to give us something nice only to take it away and thats even before it hit Live
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
FEEDBACK :
STR : stamina regen / dot resist give you trice more than it gaved you before.
Temporary hitpoints from unstopable should be based on maximum hitpoints and it should grant 20-30% of Max HP that isn't affected by HealingDepression and it should persists even after the unstopable ends.
Stamina should be a little more responsive with the animation.
buff the base damage of all encounters at lvl 70 by atleast 40%.
FeedBack sentinel:
If you only keep the Damage bonus as amplifier, than increase the base damage of intimidation up to 250% of weapon damage = out of 2100 weapon damage its a base damage of 5000 with only damage bonus as amplifier (no mark, no cba, no armor pen, exactly as it is right now on the PTR).
Come and get it and Daring should should have 2 seconds shorter cooldown, and this 2 encounters should buff the allies too.
feedback destroyer:
Destroyer now gives you 1 stack / enemy that is in a 50' radius . Additionally each stack of Destroyer grants you .7/1.4/2.8/3.5% bonus damage per stack. And a 75% out of weapon damage as Crushing damage , that ignores all forms of immunity,defense etc. on every hit.
Unfettered strikes: when your stamina decreases your run speed is increased by 14/188/22/26/30%.
feedback instigator:
- nimble runner should give up to 20% more deflect chance,
- capstone should grant 35-50% dmg resistance while in unstopable. The dmg bonus should remain the same
Mighty leap DROP RADIUS should be bigger, increase its AREA DAMAGE.
increase mightyleap and not so fast base damage by 50%
FEEDBACK :
STR : stamina regen / dot resist give you trice more than it gaved you before.
Temporary hitpoints from unstopable should be based on maximum hitpoints and it should grant 20-30% of Max HP that isn't affected by HealingDepression and it should persists even after the unstopable ends.
Stamina should be a little more responsive with the animation.
buff the base damage of all encounters at lvl 70 by atleast 40%.
Strength should be changed to: 2% Damage and 2% Stamina Regen. This helps our "base" damage as well as stamina regen issues.
Temp HP - I agree should be AROUND the 15-30% NET (after Healing Depression) however I dont like making it 30-60% for PVE purposes because that would be VERY overpowered. So in order to GET 15-30% NET, this is where we need something like:
4% Temp HP Per second (NOT affected by Healing depression) OR 4% temp HP each time you are struck (with a .5sec ICD AND this could be affected by healing depression.
This would give us 16%-32% on the first, and a POSSIBLE 16%-32% with the second (if struck every .5seconds for the duration of unstoppable).
I am not opposed to an increase of encounters, but TBH, id rather see an increase in damage of our at wills. I think STR = 2% damage will already give most GWFs a 15%+ damage boost there as well as a 15%+ stamina regen increase.
If you only keep the Damage bonus as amplifier, than increase the base damage of intimidation up to 250% of weapon damage = out of 2100 weapon damage its a base damage of 5000 with only damage bonus as amplifier (no mark, no cba, no armor pen, exactly as it is right now on the PTR).
Come and get it and Daring should should have 2 seconds shorter cooldown, and this 2 encounters should buff the allies too.
Personally I think Intim DOES need to be buffed but I would rather not have entire builds revolve around this one mechanic (like we have on LIVE). Id much rather see this turn into a "fire of the gods" like ability. This would remove the need to use BOTH CAGI+DS and allow you to only use 1 of them, it would also significantly buff the DPS of this feat without making it uber bursty. Giving it 100% weapon damage every second for 15 seconds, thats alot of damage for us GWFs.
feedback destroyer:
Destroyer now gives you 1 stack / enemy that is in a 50' radius . Additionally each stack of Destroyer grants you .7/1.4/2.8/3.5% bonus damage per stack. And a 75% out of weapon damage as Crushing damage , that ignores all forms of immunity,defense etc. on every hit.
Unfettered strikes: when your stamina decreases your run speed is increased by 14/188/22/26/30%.
Very much dislike this. This makes it not very good in 1v1 scenarios. The only issue this feat even has is that in PVP its not very good. In PVE its easy to attack 3+ targets and keep the bonus up. You nearly NEVER attack 3+ targets in PVP lets alone the small chance to gain a stack off any attack combined with the uptime of the stacks is VERY bad.
All this feat needs is a significant increase in "uptime". I would even prefer a system of "in combat" versus "out of combat" which triggers how long stacks last. If we build stacks within an "encounter" as long as we stay IN combat we retain our stacks.
Unfettered Strikes, I dont dislike how it works now, however the only "issue" is that when you cant hit a target (like TR) it really doesnt give you much ability to do anything. Not sure if there is a good fix for this, maybe a BETTER option is something like "each time you are struck gain 5/10/15/20/25% movement for 4 seconds" - And remove the stacking. Thus if a TR damages you or anyone for that matter you gain significant movement.
feedback instigator:
- nimble runner should give up to 20% more deflect chance,
- capstone should grant 35-50% dmg resistance while in unstopable. The dmg bonus should remain the same
Mighty leap DROP RADIUS should be bigger, increase its AREA DAMAGE.
increase mightyleap and not so fast base damage by 50%
Nimble Runner - I agree needs a boost. Hopefully they consider sprint+Unstoppable instead of DR granting 100% deflect chance and then Nimble RUnner COULD instead give and extra +20% deflect severity during sprint. Also I would think Nimble Runner to increase your stamina gain somehow as well.
Capstone "stack" duration needs to be bumped up to 8-10 seconds of not getting hit.
Allied Opportunity: Should increase the damage of Mighty Leap and NSF by 50% Mighty Leap and NSF should now STUN targets for .2/.4/.6/.8/1 Second.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited March 2015
Feedback warriors of NW
Pls increase the DR from AC at least x2 for all heavy plate users this is total unfair .
I am oneshooted from WotD dragon and CW can tank it frontal + he have dodge.
Its total unbalanced in the pve way.
So CW can eat up 100 k dmg and stil have 74k hp left GWF can have 100 k hp but he cant eat 100k dmg they only mignate 28k dmg and they almost die from 1 hit or better they die from 1 hit.
I will show some pic from GWF (in unstoppable) oneshooted by Rogrotus with maxed def gear.
After prev is up agan.
Also i will show some pic from wrong weapon dmg of GWFs if they enter in lvl 70 area other classes have this not so player give falsh feedback if they think this is GWFs true dmg. The point is if i enter in trade of blades i have normal weapon dmg so i can give true feedback about GWF true dmg but if i enter lvl 70 area i will have boosted weapon dmg so i will give incorrect feedback about GWFs dmg.
feedback : for deflect chance , i dont think it is a good idea of having deflect chance increased on unstopable, even thou i wish too, but this will make it immortal imo, like the TRs are for example with ITC. but i do agree with deflect severity being increased to 75% , the normal base.
and if they increase at lvl 70 the base damage of the encounters a nerf of focused destroyer* with the stack system wont affect too much imo, and that "piercing damage" will make the GWF destro viable in PVP .
feedback : for deflect chance , i dont think it is a good idea of having deflect chance increased on unstopable, even thou i wish too, but this will make it immortal imo, like the TRs are for example with ITC. but i do agree with deflect severity being increased to 75% , the normal base.
and if they increase at lvl 70 the base damage of the encounters a nerf of destroyer purpose with the stack system wont affect too much imo, and that "piercing damage" will make the GWF destro viable in PVP .
I dont think it'd make us immortal, Piercing damage would still be undeflectable, and although it would be less overall damage we'd still take a fair bit. remember this is only in unstoppable (4-8 seconds Lifetime) and potentially sprint (which takes so long to recharge we'd be getting it for .5-1 second at a time every 4-5 seconds at the absolute MAX if we kept spamming it)
I do agree with changing our reliance on stacks, whether it be Ayroux's suggestion of them lasting till end of combat, or another, As well as changing destroyers capstone to be a Flat damage increase in unstoppable (not reliant on stacks) so we actually get the increased damage when it matters most (when we are attacking faster)
I noticed recently that Guardian figther Bull Charge can go up in the air also (so knock people on the high ground in one of the PVP maps off the pillars). We NEED Targeted CC like this. I swear half of our problem with damage is that we cant catch people. the other half is that our damage/ attack speed outside unstoppable / without stacks that cant be maintained is shockingly low.
Seriously. put a GWF with set gear, against every other class with a same level of gear. have players of around the same skill play them, and look at the results. the GWF wont beat any other class. (by same level of skill I assume people who dont just stand next to each other trying to spam skills, I'm talking about a fight involving movement, dodging, etc.) We can be outdamaged by a HEALER, and the only class that I can see not outdpsing us (paladin) can heal so hard we cant kill them anyway.
Also, test the damage output of the class on a training dummy, compared to the damage output of the other "DPS" classes with them all wearing like gear.we'll be at the lowest there also. If I had a 70 of each class I'd do this myself.
That's the reason why i think CW feedback on GWF is quite toxic most of the time, like the one who posted lately saying "i've done few PvE encounters with GWFs and they are fine". It's superficial feedback from someone who does not know how the class works, and is the reason why GWF class got so many wrong feedback even after module 4, such as "i've met 20k intimidation sentinel in PvP with my 15k CW, GWF is not weak it's OP!!!".
Talking about PvP:
- I agree with determination coming from damage dealt or being built up at a slow, steady rate when GWFs enters combat. Must be a little addition to the determination gain from damage taken (main source of determination) and class-wide, not just for destroyer. Reason: to make out mechanic a bit less depending on what the enemy does. No other class has its class mechanic based on how the enemy plays. Or, if so, at least make it a more powerful class mechanic the way unstoppable was. Explanation: old unstoppable in, say, module 3, could be "tamed" with focused CC and burst DPS. Was truly "unstoppable" if the enemy was spamming puny at-wills. Only problem was the fast determination gain. Right now, with current determination gain, it would be easy to have the time to CC-DPS focus GWFs between unstoppables. But the mechanic itself must grant the GWF what the name says: the warrior must take little damage and resist CC for the entire duration of unstoppable (4-8 seconds). Considering with focused DPS right now a GWF, even a sentinel, can go "unstoppable" only a couple of times in a fight, it would be balanced. So buff unstoppable the way you want but it should work this way for all paths.
- Instigator should also have smalldetermination gain buffed from damage taken WHILE SPRINTING.
- Destroyer should be able to gain a bit of determination during unstoppable when dealing damage
- Sentinel should get a further temporary HP buff from unstoppable to boost survivability/ tankiness/ damage-absorbing capability
- Stacks should stay as long as the GWF is in combat. So you build them at the start, then you don't have to constantly refresh them. Fair enough.
- Since intimidation burst is gone, Sentinel should get buffed Restoring Strike damage to increase burst
- Change stuns into dazes and heavy slows. Reason: stuns are deflected and nullified most of the time. Dazes would prevent enemies from rolling/ teleporting. Hard slows should work the same way as TR encounter that heavily reduces your mobility and prevents you from shifting away. Reason: GWF relies on mobility. So it makes sense if GWF CC would work decreasing mobility rather than shutting down the enemy completely, allowing the GWF to get in melee range more easily to deal damage.
- Change IBS: make it like savage advance, with first hit closing gap/ prone the enemy, and then the execution move. So it does not rely on a CC encounter to land first.
GWF class rework:
- Here's my thought: GWF class should not have ranged encounters. Such as FLS or hidden daggers exc... How it should work:
1) Increase stamina regeneration and stamina overall by A LOT. Change sprint CC immunity in 50% CC duration reduction and grant slow effects immunity if hit while sprinting. IF unstoppable is buffed back to being "unstoppable" (see above) AND determination gain is buffed (see above), it should be balanced, allowing other classes to still CC the GWF a bit in between unstoppables. Make the GWF able to chase ANY opponent and close gaps fast
2) Add a more GWF-fitting AoE encounter in place of hidden daggers
3) add the dazes/ slows effects from above
Now GWFs would not hit from range BUT be able to have much more mobility and gap-closing ability to get in melee range, while being able to hit enemies with some encounters that would actually limit their mobility, making it easier for GWFs to get in melee range if not dodged.
I think for PvP changes in roughly this direction would rework the class allowing GWFs to have tools to counter the enemies while not making them OP, considering the DPS burst TRs, HRs, CWs eand other classes in general are able to pull out to take GWFs down in between unstoppable.
Would overall turn a vs GWF fight in a more balanced burst-defend/kite-burst. With no ranged CC would be easier to kite from one side, but from the other GWFs would sprint a lot more, being able to chase more and "outrun" the enemy, while also tanking more with new unstoppable.
If you focus a GWF during unstoppable you are punished.
If the GWF can time sprint or you hit them during sprint, GWFs can "mitigate" CC and chase you better
If you can CC a GWF out of unstoppable and sprint he is heavily punished (full CC and full DPS burst).
To me, would be fair if stamina/ stamina gain is balanced well to be not too low and not too much. Less pressure from ranged CC for the other classes but more tools for GWF to close the gap and also defend through sprint, while the unstoppable class mechanic allows for "burst" tank effectively and scales with how the enemy fights: smart play is rewarded, mindless pew-pew spam is punished.
Comments
Actually yeah it is, because GWFs need about 100% damage bonus to deal the damage other classes get. So a GWF with 20k Power is the same as another class with like 8k Power.
The plain fact of the matter is that GWFs BASE damage is so bad, and each module they "bandaid" it by adding more and more damage buffs without addressing the REAL problem: BASE damage.
They added +20% Mark damage boost, We get like 12+% from CA, we get 15%+ from Powerful Challenge and EVEN WITH all of that, the class STILL does <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> DPS. Shoot even with full Destroyer stacks up at 50% MORE damage boost we still do mediocre damage. Its only when you add ANOTHER 60%+ damage from the Detroyer FEAT in PVE that you see GOOD damage.
So you could literally give the Sentinel GWF 200:1 meaning Power:1% Damage, lets Sent GWFS stack up to 20k Power which would be 100% damage boost and they would STILL get massively OUT DPSd by nearly ANY class AND STILL be much more squishy than TRs/Hrs/CWs/DCs/GFs etc....
You cant just look at raw stats because GWFs seem like Monsters.
120k+ HP, 20k Power, 40%+ Deflect, 40%+ Crit(weapon Master) You might be thinking "whats the problem? look at all of this"
Fact of the matter is though. 20k Power means NOTHING with our horrible base damage.
The issue though, if they increase base damage they will HAVE to nerf Detroyer for PVE purposes. If they do this as well, GWF is not even good in PVP at all, so buffing all the base damage will STILL not address the PVP issues, nerfing Destroyer will STILL not make them viable in PVP or balanced in PVP itll just make them worse.
This is why I keep saying we need to pick and choose what to give feedback on. They will not re-work out class, only minor changes so we need to be VERY precise with feedback.
FEEDBACK: INTIMIDATION
- Deals too low damage right now. Needs to be brought up to about 250% Weapon damage AND damage bonuses need to work with it (like it does on live). I dont like it working off power.
I could ALSO see this ability instead transformed into a DPS mechanic rather than a "burst" so it would work more like DCs "Fire of the Gods" where it deals 100% weapon damage every second for 15 seconds.
Given that this is off a LONG CD and NOT a crit it seems fair. ALSO this removes the benefit of slotting TWO "intimidation" abilities since it would only proc once and would NOT stack.
This seems like the most reasonable as it does good DPS, is NOT a burst damage ability BUT! It removes that you can use it 2x and would only get real benefit from ONE encounter - each has their own benefits.
But noone of this will happen, they wont make drastic changes to the class THIS close to a module. Now maybe if your proposing this for module 7 or 8, but then again who knows what will happen by that time....
If they want to fix intimidation, honestly the best way to do it is to just copy another classes mechanic like DCs "fire of the Gods" but DCs feat is off a crit, ours would be off an ability. So its pretty fair IMO. 100% weapon damage every second for 15 seconds. Done. Same coding as DC feat but instead of off a proc its off CAGI or DS.
For the REST of the class while (again) there are a million things we can propose and fix. At the end of the day we need to look at the path of least resistance. For ALL GWFS that is:
1) Temp HP from Unstoppable - Needs to either be NOT affected by HD or it needs to be based on number of hits - allowing for ABOUT the same amount of Temp HP both in PVE and PVP. This is too much of a crutch for the class, if you over buff it itll be FAR too good in PVE and good in PVP or it will be good in PVE but suck in PVP - where it is now.
As mentioned before BEST case scenario that I CONSTRUCTED in pvp with the help of teammates. I got <13k Temp HP from a FULL unstoppable bar. With the MOST damage buffs our class can muster. This is NOT enough. Especially considering that NO GWF will ever yhave the luxury of WAITING to use unstoppable for a FULL Bar.
This could also fall under the category of a BUG since Destroyer stacks + Destroyer Captsone + Power + STR put me WELL about 100% damage bonus, We are SUPPOSED To get 8-16% * damage bonus. On a Target Dummy I was able to get a TON of Temp HP (like 50k+) but in PVP best case is 13k? Temp HP?
OH For this 13k I was also using Trans FeyTouched which would have been another 18% however that didnt seem to apply EITHER.
For ALL these reasons instead of fixing coding/bugs etc or worrying about damage bonus balance, just make it a FLAT 4-5% EITHER per second (not affected by HD) or PER HIT (WITH HD - potentialyl with a .5 second ICD allowing for proper #s in pvp)
2) Stacking - NO other class is FORCED to rely on stacking like we are. The biggest issues are weapon master stacks and Destroyer stacks, they are FAR too short for PVP purposes. THis is something DPS tests or PVE tests CANNOT show you. The stacks needs to last 8+ seconds each OR last the entire duration you are in combat.
Second to this are Destroyer Capstone stacks - should NOT be reliant on Unstoppable. Should build them anytime anywhere off any attack and last the same as above 8+ seconds.
Instagator stacks - again only last a few seconds after getting attacked? Great in PVE however you cant FORCE someone to attack you in PVP. These need a MASSIVE increase in duration. 10+ Seconds MINIMUM.
3) Determination - ALL GWFs need to build determination off DEALING damage. PERIOD. This should not be restricted to the Destroyer class.
4) Stamina Gain - Our stamina gain is the WORST of ANY class. We get 5 seconds to sprint every 20+ seconds. Even stacking stamina gain does next to nothing for us.
Possible solutions are to give insta- stamina refill each unstoppable pop. Another was to increase the BASE gain. Another was to make STR = 2% stam gain up from 1%. OR yet ANOTHER could be to rework "Fast Runner" to be JUST like "Fleet Footed" for TR - a 10% stamina gain boost.
ALl are possible options.
OVERALL GWFs NEED:
1) Better Temp HP from unstoppable IN PVP - preferably NOT tied to damage bonus.
2) Better "stacking system" - with a LARGE LARGE LARGE amount of damage reliant upon stacks, the current "stacking" system is VERY poor.
3) Better CONTROL over our access to Unstoppable - not just HP % lost but damage dealt as well (preferably on a PRE-DR basis too BTW)
4) Better Stamina Gain Currently its VERY bad in PVP.
Then FINALLY we DO need a FIX to Intimidation, so again. Just make it like Fire of the Gods for DCs: 100% weapon damage every second for 15 seconds. Copy/Paste the coding. Itll be GOOD DPS that procs off an ECOUNTER - rather than a CRIT (like DCs) And actualyl FREE UP a slot for GWFs -encounters who run this.
Im not sure if this would even fix us LOL! The old template we didnt get CA+20% damage off Mark. So we would be losing considerable damage.
Plus, being honest, as much as I would love that it would never happen. They will never revert BACK to something and they will never make THIS many sweeping changes 8 days before module. They will make small tweaks and I hope those PRIMARILY are:
[*]Great Weapon Fighter
To your first point - then they would have to nerf something in destroyer or dest GWFs will be monsters in PVE, given that fact, and that we are already NOT in a good spot for PVP Id rather have them just give universal buffs to our REAL issue that you described as well:
Survivability is horrible. Also to your point, we cant deal damage because we cant take damage and we cant even AVOID damage if we want either - like classes that can dodge.
Maybe they need to make DODGE no longer "immune" but just "increased DR" like GWF has - make it fair. See how much QQ happens because classes would be more "squishy". How is that for fair LOL!
the rest:
buff the general damage for 10%
powers up in 25% of damage per rank (instead of 10)... our damage comes from the specialization.
Disciple of War: x% of your power is arp.
destroyer paragon:during unstoppable, your encounter do +30% of damage. point
agree to ayroux; all trees receive determination dealing damage.
up the class features for 6 secs.
now you have a solid and dinamic "non faceroll" class...
I spoke to Panderus about GWfs during the Friday PVP event, he says their tests have shown GWFs to be about the same as everyone else.
I treid to respectfully disagree with him, however it didnt seem like he trusted my feedback, discounting it saying that most people have not tested lvl 70 pvp yet.
I would say that based on my experience since BETA, its pretty easy to see the state of GWFs without testing. Now that I have tested lvl 70 PVP on my GWF, its EVEN MORE apparent that we are the weaklings of PVP.
GFs can block for 20-30 seconds + have massive group benefits, whittle your HP down as you cannot damage them.
DCs - literally unkillable for a GWF. We literally deal 0 damage to them.
TRs - cant catch them, SEd for 60-70k+ with no way to avoid it...
Need I go on?
I am offering my help to help BALANCE the class rather than continue down the path of duct-tape and bandages that we keep doing module after module.
To FIX the class you cannnot put off changes and you cannot do SWEEPING MAJOR changes but small MINOR ones.
my 14.6k rogue at 60 (not using plaguefire or flaming) can outdps my 20.2k GWF (both the level 60, and the level 70 version wearing full level 70 purple gear and a pure vorpal) by almost double his damage for the 60, and moderately higher damage than the level 70. This was tested over 1 minute of combat on a training dummy. I can re-do this test and post combat damage logs if required and probably still get quite similar results.
The point Ayroux makes about SE is very true, the DR from sprint doesnt help here and it don't have an actual dodge mechanic.
How is this "classes on the same level" You might say "oh but GWF is tankier" But the truth there is we aren't, We may have higher DR / defence, but this doesnt matter when in PvP a lot of high damage sources ignore DR and deflect , also at 70 the scaling on our DR and deflect is shocking and we have under 30% dr even with higher defence levels like 6k and above. our feats that Address effectiveness of AC and defence need to be increased, as does our hp pool / temp hp.
There is so much weak about our class in both PvE and PvP at the moment, and It feels like we're basically being given up on.
I'm also concerned about the new pvp at 70. there is only 2 PvP sets for 70 that provide tenacity. and one of them costs ~80,000 glory, the other is at lest 2-3 months of farming IWD. how would a NEW player or "free" player manage to farm this without suffering flaming and extremely low returns (remember if someone gets under a set number of points they dont even get glory.)
At 60 we had 3 tiers of PVP gear, so you could buy the lower tier, (even buy it in AH) then slowly farm glory up to the new stuff. they cant do that at 70 and as such would be entering in with PvE gear on and not benefit from the tenacity ARpen resist and Damage resistance.
We already know that sometimes PvP players can be quite "toxic" when it comes to undergeared people and this definitely wouldn't help that, though that's probably going to happen regardless
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
really hard to believe they test stuff. with all the bugs in preview that goes live, how are we gonna take panderus' word that he tests stuff?
Feedback: unstoppable
The class mechanic is useless for survivability. Too much DPS going right through DR. Turn it to deflect and deflect severity. My 11k HR is tankier than a 18k GWF. Determination gain nerf was enough. Buff unstoppable back to being a good survivability tool and respect its name. The mechanic is far behind that of other classes.
sad read that. really sad. you can see why some trolls have destroyed this game so much.
What if Unstoppable AND "sprint" instead of granting ANY DR just gave us 50-100% Deflect chance?
In a sense you "deflect all blows" etc etc.
You wouldnt even REALLY need any severity TBH, if we can get 30% DR, that would take 10,000 damage down to 7k then deflected down to 3,500 Damage for an "equiv" of 65% DR. Then it could be mitigated down by tenacity ETC for even more.
If a TR gets 100% critical in Stealth, I dont see why GWF cant achieve 100% deflect in unstoppable or in sprint.
I agree with this, my ONLY reservation would be the boon "Fey Thistle" because that would turn us into deflect monsters, but I do like the idea MUCH better than DR TBH.
This wouldnt also affect things like SE/Piercing damage tho, which is another issue...
Fey thistle would be strong and all. but people don't HAVE to attack us while we are unstoppable, if anything unstoppable should be when attacking us is a bad idea. like how its hard to attack rogues when they are stealthed, and how when GF is blocking they take 80% less damage. they can just kite and then start afterwards. also ITC gives 100% deflect as does the HR daily. Plus piercing damage would still hit through it so we wouldnt be unkillable.
I actually REALLY like this idea. it definitely helps our survivability inside unstoppable. we'd still be squishy outside though. it also makes Fey thistle kind of a Required boon for us. we should have an actual feat that reflects some damage whenever we deflect to go with this, or a class feature that does this.
This also goes with the idea that GWF is about DR AND DEFLECT (which are the dominant stats on our defensive gear). as we have bravery + another feature to further make our deflect stronger, and Sentinel can be a Deflect/DR hybrid tank that deals damage on deflects.
What would sentinel capstone do though instead of raising DR from unstoppable? or would instead unstoppable give no dr but just flat 100% deflect and CC immune for 4-8 seconds, and the sentinel capstone makes it add DR / increase temp HP gain? any ideas here? I feel this is something that could turn us around from a survivability standpoint.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Well the Sentinel Capstone could instead give +25% Deflect Severity.
This would make all GWFs not as "tanky" per-se however utilize deflect REALLY well. Unstoppable+Sprint would grant 100% deflect chance, Sentinel Capstone would give an extra +25% Deflect Severity.
The only thing that makes me nervous is our low DR, however I think this could be a very interesting re-work. This would also need to be in conjunction with the other changes:
1) Stacking buffs
2) temp HP increase
3) Stamina gain
4) determination gain
5) Intimidation
|NOW 6) Unstoppable+Sprint changed to 100% deflect chance.
ALL of these things would make me MUCH more happy for module 6 rather than VERY hesitant and leery about my future in the game, not that I would quit at all, but I have been very unmotivated to pvp recently because when I do I literally get 1 shot by TRs. I reflect back module 1 when any class could compete with any class - to an extent.
Now it seems our class isnt even given the tools to compete 1v1 and the excuse we get is its not balanced around 1v1s. Well thats great and all but its not even balanced 5v5 of team play because if it is... Whats the roll of the GWF - the target?
I really wish the DEVs would listen to all this feedback. The players that are sticking with GWF still have faith, however the players that are still here are not the 13 year olds looking for a god-like class. We just want a viable one.....
Its a really cool mechanic because it gives us our own unique method of tanking, We have the GWF as the hard DR tank, the paladin as the sustain healing tank, and GWF as more of a Deflect / agile offtank, makes our role of taking adds more useful and gives us better solo potential as well as group potential.
they could at least try it. I mean what is there really too lose if its tried via the preview server, if we suddenly become unkillable demigods at 70, then we know its too strong, While if the feedback from GWF comes back as positive, and other classes dont raise a shocking storm about the change, then suddenly all the GWF players have a change they're really happy about.
(I wouldnt take results from 60 as seriously as results from 70 as most people who pvp GWF are in BiS 20-25k gs at 60 so naturally would be a lot stronger than the more average <15k average people )
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
They are operating a "free" game with a dwindling income so what do you expect? Quality development needs money
GWF Sentinel - there should be a trade-off, go Destroyer do great damage, go Sentinel lose the damage but become nigh impossible to kill. This is missing. Right now on Preview the Sentinel is not much tougher than a Destroyer with much less damage
Grand Fissure - this top level ability is worthless with the damage reduction it received from the last Patch. Way to give us something nice only to take it away and thats even before it hit Live
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
STR : stamina regen / dot resist give you trice more than it gaved you before.
Temporary hitpoints from unstopable should be based on maximum hitpoints and it should grant 20-30% of Max HP that isn't affected by HealingDepression and it should persists even after the unstopable ends.
Stamina should be a little more responsive with the animation.
buff the base damage of all encounters at lvl 70 by atleast 40%.
FeedBack sentinel:
If you only keep the Damage bonus as amplifier, than increase the base damage of intimidation up to 250% of weapon damage = out of 2100 weapon damage its a base damage of 5000 with only damage bonus as amplifier (no mark, no cba, no armor pen, exactly as it is right now on the PTR).
Come and get it and Daring should should have 2 seconds shorter cooldown, and this 2 encounters should buff the allies too.
feedback destroyer:
Destroyer now gives you 1 stack / enemy that is in a 50' radius . Additionally each stack of Destroyer grants you .7/1.4/2.8/3.5% bonus damage per stack. And a 75% out of weapon damage as Crushing damage , that ignores all forms of immunity,defense etc. on every hit.
Unfettered strikes: when your stamina decreases your run speed is increased by 14/188/22/26/30%.
feedback instigator:
- nimble runner should give up to 20% more deflect chance,
- capstone should grant 35-50% dmg resistance while in unstopable. The dmg bonus should remain the same
Mighty leap DROP RADIUS should be bigger, increase its AREA DAMAGE.
increase mightyleap and not so fast base damage by 50%
Strength should be changed to: 2% Damage and 2% Stamina Regen. This helps our "base" damage as well as stamina regen issues.
Temp HP - I agree should be AROUND the 15-30% NET (after Healing Depression) however I dont like making it 30-60% for PVE purposes because that would be VERY overpowered. So in order to GET 15-30% NET, this is where we need something like:
4% Temp HP Per second (NOT affected by Healing depression) OR 4% temp HP each time you are struck (with a .5sec ICD AND this could be affected by healing depression.
This would give us 16%-32% on the first, and a POSSIBLE 16%-32% with the second (if struck every .5seconds for the duration of unstoppable).
I am not opposed to an increase of encounters, but TBH, id rather see an increase in damage of our at wills. I think STR = 2% damage will already give most GWFs a 15%+ damage boost there as well as a 15%+ stamina regen increase.
Personally I think Intim DOES need to be buffed but I would rather not have entire builds revolve around this one mechanic (like we have on LIVE). Id much rather see this turn into a "fire of the gods" like ability. This would remove the need to use BOTH CAGI+DS and allow you to only use 1 of them, it would also significantly buff the DPS of this feat without making it uber bursty. Giving it 100% weapon damage every second for 15 seconds, thats alot of damage for us GWFs.
Very much dislike this. This makes it not very good in 1v1 scenarios. The only issue this feat even has is that in PVP its not very good. In PVE its easy to attack 3+ targets and keep the bonus up. You nearly NEVER attack 3+ targets in PVP lets alone the small chance to gain a stack off any attack combined with the uptime of the stacks is VERY bad.
All this feat needs is a significant increase in "uptime". I would even prefer a system of "in combat" versus "out of combat" which triggers how long stacks last. If we build stacks within an "encounter" as long as we stay IN combat we retain our stacks.
Unfettered Strikes, I dont dislike how it works now, however the only "issue" is that when you cant hit a target (like TR) it really doesnt give you much ability to do anything. Not sure if there is a good fix for this, maybe a BETTER option is something like "each time you are struck gain 5/10/15/20/25% movement for 4 seconds" - And remove the stacking. Thus if a TR damages you or anyone for that matter you gain significant movement.
Nimble Runner - I agree needs a boost. Hopefully they consider sprint+Unstoppable instead of DR granting 100% deflect chance and then Nimble RUnner COULD instead give and extra +20% deflect severity during sprint. Also I would think Nimble Runner to increase your stamina gain somehow as well.
Capstone "stack" duration needs to be bumped up to 8-10 seconds of not getting hit.
Allied Opportunity: Should increase the damage of Mighty Leap and NSF by 50% Mighty Leap and NSF should now STUN targets for .2/.4/.6/.8/1 Second.
Pls increase the DR from AC at least x2 for all heavy plate users this is total unfair .
I am oneshooted from WotD dragon and CW can tank it frontal + he have dodge.
Its total unbalanced in the pve way.
So CW can eat up 100 k dmg and stil have 74k hp left GWF can have 100 k hp but he cant eat 100k dmg they only mignate 28k dmg and they almost die from 1 hit or better they die from 1 hit.
I will show some pic from GWF (in unstoppable) oneshooted by Rogrotus with maxed def gear.
After prev is up agan.
Also i will show some pic from wrong weapon dmg of GWFs if they enter in lvl 70 area other classes have this not so player give falsh feedback if they think this is GWFs true dmg. The point is if i enter in trade of blades i have normal weapon dmg so i can give true feedback about GWF true dmg but if i enter lvl 70 area i will have boosted weapon dmg so i will give incorrect feedback about GWFs dmg.
and if they increase at lvl 70 the base damage of the encounters a nerf of focused destroyer* with the stack system wont affect too much imo, and that "piercing damage" will make the GWF destro viable in PVP .
I dont think it'd make us immortal, Piercing damage would still be undeflectable, and although it would be less overall damage we'd still take a fair bit. remember this is only in unstoppable (4-8 seconds Lifetime) and potentially sprint (which takes so long to recharge we'd be getting it for .5-1 second at a time every 4-5 seconds at the absolute MAX if we kept spamming it)
I do agree with changing our reliance on stacks, whether it be Ayroux's suggestion of them lasting till end of combat, or another, As well as changing destroyers capstone to be a Flat damage increase in unstoppable (not reliant on stacks) so we actually get the increased damage when it matters most (when we are attacking faster)
I noticed recently that Guardian figther Bull Charge can go up in the air also (so knock people on the high ground in one of the PVP maps off the pillars). We NEED Targeted CC like this. I swear half of our problem with damage is that we cant catch people. the other half is that our damage/ attack speed outside unstoppable / without stacks that cant be maintained is shockingly low.
Seriously. put a GWF with set gear, against every other class with a same level of gear. have players of around the same skill play them, and look at the results. the GWF wont beat any other class. (by same level of skill I assume people who dont just stand next to each other trying to spam skills, I'm talking about a fight involving movement, dodging, etc.) We can be outdamaged by a HEALER, and the only class that I can see not outdpsing us (paladin) can heal so hard we cant kill them anyway.
Also, test the damage output of the class on a training dummy, compared to the damage output of the other "DPS" classes with them all wearing like gear.we'll be at the lowest there also. If I had a 70 of each class I'd do this myself.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
That's the reason why i think CW feedback on GWF is quite toxic most of the time, like the one who posted lately saying "i've done few PvE encounters with GWFs and they are fine". It's superficial feedback from someone who does not know how the class works, and is the reason why GWF class got so many wrong feedback even after module 4, such as "i've met 20k intimidation sentinel in PvP with my 15k CW, GWF is not weak it's OP!!!".
Talking about PvP:
- I agree with determination coming from damage dealt or being built up at a slow, steady rate when GWFs enters combat. Must be a little addition to the determination gain from damage taken (main source of determination) and class-wide, not just for destroyer. Reason: to make out mechanic a bit less depending on what the enemy does. No other class has its class mechanic based on how the enemy plays. Or, if so, at least make it a more powerful class mechanic the way unstoppable was. Explanation: old unstoppable in, say, module 3, could be "tamed" with focused CC and burst DPS. Was truly "unstoppable" if the enemy was spamming puny at-wills. Only problem was the fast determination gain. Right now, with current determination gain, it would be easy to have the time to CC-DPS focus GWFs between unstoppables. But the mechanic itself must grant the GWF what the name says: the warrior must take little damage and resist CC for the entire duration of unstoppable (4-8 seconds). Considering with focused DPS right now a GWF, even a sentinel, can go "unstoppable" only a couple of times in a fight, it would be balanced. So buff unstoppable the way you want but it should work this way for all paths.
- Instigator should also have smalldetermination gain buffed from damage taken WHILE SPRINTING.
- Destroyer should be able to gain a bit of determination during unstoppable when dealing damage
- Sentinel should get a further temporary HP buff from unstoppable to boost survivability/ tankiness/ damage-absorbing capability
- Stacks should stay as long as the GWF is in combat. So you build them at the start, then you don't have to constantly refresh them. Fair enough.
- Since intimidation burst is gone, Sentinel should get buffed Restoring Strike damage to increase burst
- Change stuns into dazes and heavy slows. Reason: stuns are deflected and nullified most of the time. Dazes would prevent enemies from rolling/ teleporting. Hard slows should work the same way as TR encounter that heavily reduces your mobility and prevents you from shifting away. Reason: GWF relies on mobility. So it makes sense if GWF CC would work decreasing mobility rather than shutting down the enemy completely, allowing the GWF to get in melee range more easily to deal damage.
- Change IBS: make it like savage advance, with first hit closing gap/ prone the enemy, and then the execution move. So it does not rely on a CC encounter to land first.
GWF class rework:
- Here's my thought: GWF class should not have ranged encounters. Such as FLS or hidden daggers exc... How it should work:
1) Increase stamina regeneration and stamina overall by A LOT. Change sprint CC immunity in 50% CC duration reduction and grant slow effects immunity if hit while sprinting. IF unstoppable is buffed back to being "unstoppable" (see above) AND determination gain is buffed (see above), it should be balanced, allowing other classes to still CC the GWF a bit in between unstoppables. Make the GWF able to chase ANY opponent and close gaps fast
2) Add a more GWF-fitting AoE encounter in place of hidden daggers
3) add the dazes/ slows effects from above
Now GWFs would not hit from range BUT be able to have much more mobility and gap-closing ability to get in melee range, while being able to hit enemies with some encounters that would actually limit their mobility, making it easier for GWFs to get in melee range if not dodged.
I think for PvP changes in roughly this direction would rework the class allowing GWFs to have tools to counter the enemies while not making them OP, considering the DPS burst TRs, HRs, CWs eand other classes in general are able to pull out to take GWFs down in between unstoppable.
Would overall turn a vs GWF fight in a more balanced burst-defend/kite-burst. With no ranged CC would be easier to kite from one side, but from the other GWFs would sprint a lot more, being able to chase more and "outrun" the enemy, while also tanking more with new unstoppable.
If you focus a GWF during unstoppable you are punished.
If the GWF can time sprint or you hit them during sprint, GWFs can "mitigate" CC and chase you better
If you can CC a GWF out of unstoppable and sprint he is heavily punished (full CC and full DPS burst).
To me, would be fair if stamina/ stamina gain is balanced well to be not too low and not too much. Less pressure from ranged CC for the other classes but more tools for GWF to close the gap and also defend through sprint, while the unstoppable class mechanic allows for "burst" tank effectively and scales with how the enemy fights: smart play is rewarded, mindless pew-pew spam is punished.
Agreed. Give Iron Vanguard path back to the GF.
yes exactly
remove iv path from gwf and sm poth from gf
give gwf kensei and gf pitfighter