We all blame the devs for their epic delay in fixing any inbalance.When they actually do.This is the obvious and i will not say anything about it.So many said before me.
But what was not said ,was the community's responsibility for that behaviour.
Neverwinter pvp community...
Exploiters,botters,hackers .90% of them.
Since mod 2 ,PVPers made any unfortunate pve toon that would join pvp,a miserable experience.
Top PVP guilds using their GWFs leap slamming in respawn area and killing again and again pve toons 4-5k gs lower.
Top pvp Trs with impact shot pushing dawn idle pve toons in campfire.
Emblem of Seldarine exploit...
PVP CWs acting like weasels ,never reporting their bugs in preview ,and going to Mod4 wrecking chaos.
PVP Trs even this day saying "there is nothing with TRs,learn to play".
HRs abusing the thorn ward glitch during mod3.And the list is going on...
PVP community was and still is,a toxic community unable to provide true feedback.
Devs -seeing these guys actually bring them money- having a short sight of the problem and not adressing it.
And now we are left with 3000 toons pvping in mod5.Half of them are on the same account.
From 1500 left,700-800 are just for the daily.Pvp community is 700 people at most.
That is the explanation why the devs they do not pay serious attention anymore.They will just create OP classes (Tr ,incoming Paladin) just to bait some new PVErs to buy things in Zen market.
But we reached that point cause as said ,PVP community in its glory days was shortsighted.
Even now they are the same.
Example:I pvped with some random people from the channel i participate in just to d o the daily pvp.We were high and low gs toons ,some pvp specced some pve specced.We just did it for the lulz.As it should be.The time we gueue we knew very few people pvp.We felt to a premade half EoA ,half Absolute and one famous 23k gs HR.You see these guys did not qued separately as duos.In order to face comptetition even each other.They made a premade and queued cause they would like to ensure that would rolfstomp any pug group in thier way.
And ofcourse the usual camping dawn of our respawn point foloowed.
And yet you expect new players to endure this?No way.This the pvp reality of Neverwinter.Premades played a big role in reducing pvp population.
Yes, a universally bad experience in playing a game is the fault of the players and not the game makers. PvP is rife with toxic players and cheaters because the game-makers utter fail in creating a legit pvp game and instead give us this bug laiden imbalanced thing. HAMSTER attracts flies and maggots, an easily exploited, imbalanced and buggy game attracts exploiters and people who will exploit imbalances and bugs.
I'm sure that some don't, maybe even most, but I'm quite certain that there's a fair number of people out there who derive a sick sense of self-worth by smashing pugs.
Right but those are the minority.
Most people do not want to waste 20 minutes waiting for queue, only to have a 1 minute match and then LOSE LEADERBOARD RANKING DESPITE WINNING.
Most people do not want to waste 20 minutes waiting for queue, only to have a 1 minute match and then LOSE LEADERBOARD RANKING DESPITE WINNING.
Feel free to enlighten the masses as to why the ranking matter. Even if your brown nosed mind can come up with a single reason after hours of thinking, I could nullify it in seconds. But for fun, humor me.
Feel free to enlighten the masses as to why the ranking matter. Even if your brown nosed mind can come up with a single reason after hours of thinking, I could nullify it in seconds. But for fun, humor me.
Allow me: The "ranking matter" because the leaderboard is the only way to measure the success or failure of a character against the success or failure of the other players. It is the only system in the game in which competition is tracked over a players pvp career.
Why does the tracking of wins/losses matter in any sport or game? Without these standings you have no sports leagues.
I cannot imagine a more ignorant question phrased in a more rude way.
Allow me: The "ranking matter" because the leaderboard is the only way to measure the success or failure of a character against the success or failure of the other players. It is the only system in the game in which competition is tracked over a players pvp career.
Why does the tracking of wins/losses matter in any sport or game? Without these standings you have no sports leagues.
I cannot imagine a more ignorant question phrased in a more rude way.
The difference here is:
In a real sports league, teams play under an established set of rules adjudicated by a neutral third party, and both teams agree to be punished for infractions should they arise. Therefore the rankings of teams in a league much more closely corresponds to differences in talent or skill.
In Neverwinter PVP, teams openly exploit and break the rules, and the rankings correspond to which players are the biggest cheaters.
Allow me: The "ranking matter" because the leaderboard is the only way to measure the success or failure of a character against the success or failure of the other players. It is the only system in the game in which competition is tracked over a players pvp career.
Why does the tracking of wins/losses matter in any sport or game? Without these standings you have no sports leagues.
I cannot imagine a more ignorant question phrased in a more rude way.
actually a few points of note for you (and anyone else not already privy):
1) stats have been reset at least once already since they were added, so they do not reflect the overall success/failure of anyone on a given toon over their 'career"
2) we are not using any leagues or ladders, etc. I would love to see that though where matches were setup more intentionally rather than the random pug vs premade ugliness that we presently see.
3) There is currently a stink about anyone on the top few pages of the leaderboard that has spread around like wildfire that many are allegedly cheating and abusing several exploits that erroneously place them at the top pages regardless of their actual skill level.
4) there have been bugs and exploits abused in just about every module since the leaderboard was introduced that taint whatever stats you might see anyway. (class mismatches and builds aside)
Before you go insulting others with the accusation of ignorance, you might want to consider the above regarding the current state of Neverwinter PVP.
I'd love to see the potential of Neverwinter's PVP more realized than it is now. more maps, more gametypes even on same maps, lobby system to setup specific matches, leagues, ladders, tourments. Mods that actively run and administer all of the above to ensure rules are followed, no foul play keep the toxicity down. I know many of us are guilty of not always promoting a helpful, friendly and fun environment in pvp. No one wants to be ROFL stomped into the ground by a group they have zero chance vs, whether to attain daily RAD quests or just for fun, or even those that seek the thrill of a close competitive match.
In a real sports league, teams play under an established set of rules adjudicated by a neutral third party, and both teams agree to be punished for infractions should they arise. Therefore the rankings of teams in a league much more closely corresponds to differences in talent or skill.
In Neverwinter PVP, teams openly exploit and break the rules, and the rankings correspond to which players are the biggest cheaters.
I agree entirely. For rankins to be legit, the leaderboard needs to be legit. Neverwinter pvp needs to be legit. Saying it doesn't matter and so should not be fixed is pointless.
@obsydian I think this GWF was bad geared for PVP....
i see a lot TR´s with no Tenacity no defensive stats- sab permastealth probably, up to 13k Power buffed in fight, who can easily finish u in seconds if not running or shifting arround like a chicken all time
GWF is really hard to play, especially against these dudes reflecting everything
TR and DC and lots of CW´s go PVP in PVE (insane stats) setup and melt everything down in seconds, no Tenacity or DR does help against this "everything ignoring piercing or instant killing damage"
since devs are aware of this problem and don´t change this mess, only way is to play these classes (poor) or stay away or play a range class....warlock who is weak in case of defensive mechanism, but .... you can run arround
You know...Your words offend me :P look at this and tell me again i am bad geared.
PS. i have already enough people who trying to defend broken TR.
I can imagine you TRs when 14/15k GWF can ignored all your defense and ITC and deal you 50k dmg from single IBS, i can already hear that cry- plx nerf GWF. really embarrassing
Using gs to balance pvp teams can help, but people can just equip green equips to join the matchs, and equip it back when they are in.
Maybe using a rank factor, like if you played alot pvp you rank got higher so you dont play anymore whith the lower rank pvp players.
I love if the game as some fair matchs, but isnt something easy to make.
Actions speak louder than words. Especially when Devs are so silent on broken TR. When mod 6 actually buffs TR. Are feedbacks not reaching the Devs due to most posts pertaining to TR being canned or deleted? Do you have any idea the sort of irreversible damage being done to PvP scene? Or was that the real intention?
Have people not yet noticed that all modules have an OP class?
I'm thinking this might not be a coincidence at all.
or maybe devs are too busy with module 6 and all the changes it'll bring to character stats, and prefer to do that before doing any changes to characters for now.
One key issue is that in PvP the most you are going to fight will be five. In PvE you are going to be up against ten, twenty, or more and skills are designed in a way that best fit a player to do so. I have always felt that developers for this game design it around PvE and after the desired result has been accomplished they onlythen consider what the effect on PvP will be. PvP is a small community, and honestly I don't ever see it growing much more. This is a PvE game and players who are hardcore into PvP just need to accept that they will always be on the back burner for needs and wants being addressed.
Allow me: The "ranking matter" because the leaderboard is the only way to measure the success or failure of a character against the success or failure of the other players. It is the only system in the game in which competition is tracked over a players pvp career.
Why does the tracking of wins/losses matter in any sport or game? Without these standings you have no sports leagues.
I cannot imagine a more ignorant question phrased in a more rude way.
It matters little, Eg. if you are a tr that takes the opponent point - kill away those stragglers that try to retake it. It pretty obviously counts less than running capturing points all the time.
If that tr should score any higher - he would have to abandon the point, wait till its retaken then hurry to kill people and retake the point ad infinitum. Conterproductive to acheiving victory in the match.
A tr with kill death ratio 4/1 will find himself on the leaderboard next to people dying 3 times for killing 1.
I play a 22k pvp HR, a 16k pve CW and a 17k pvp TR everyday in pvp dom/gg. I'm not the best player, but I'm far from the worst. Q times have been longer recently - 5 to 10 mins if it doesn't pop straight away, but the matches seem to be better, not so many utter rolfstomps and a lot more tight games.
Double TRs in each team usually lol.
But anyway, pvp as far as I'm concerned is alive and well, I like the current crazy dps version, it reminds me of mod2 pvp when I first joined, the HR trapper right now is almost a perfect copy of the old stormstep stormwarden in playstyle and really fun.
I'd hate to play a gwf or a sw this mod, unless I was stupid high gs. But the other classes, all good if you build right, and you don't have too many 7k wonders on your team .
You're just good to cry .. stand up like a men come on !! My gf kills tr very easy is just about hard beating and not cry like a p....y !
And pvp is alive and well !!!
A few days ago, maybe even a work or so now, I tried to see what all the flaming about TR was about, so I queued for PVP, which I have not done since the CW first got their PVP buff.
Let me first say, wow I totally understand where all the complaints about TR went, I spent the whole match stunned or tag teamed stunned. It was ridiculous. My CW control powers (freeze mainly) got seriously nerfed why is the stun duration not the same? At MOST it should be 1 second on players just like all the control powers for CW seem to be.
Then i'd say in the last 2 or 3 days i've queued just for dailys trying to get another artifact to use to refine another power artifact with should another double RP weekend show up.
What I discovered was that it would be me a 17k CW or 16k GF queued in with 2 - 4 players that had 7k or LESS GS, some dont' even have 1 artifact from the level 20 quest that gives one, many are in green gear that is not even level 50 ... seriously not even level 5 0 !!!! My opponents 3+ 20k+ GS players with lots of pretty orange bling. Yeah total waste of my time.
Then another funny thing happened, I stopped getting much of anything but 7- 10 k players ... honestly the matches ended up seemingly more balanced with same skilled players on each team... it was actually fun, good node contestation, no one one shotting each other ... some of the best matches I had but at times it literally felt like it was me with a team of bots vs. another live player and his team of bots.
So i'm wondering did all of a sudden all the craziness with TR and GS disparity between players finally make people stop doing pvp? Or maybe did all the supremely geared pvp players have nothing left to buy with glory and hit their glory cap and are now farming grym coins for the future update with drow gear?
PvP can be improved, but it will never be fair. In terms of players matching, that's pretty much what you get for pugging. Best way to survive in PvP would be to find a decent (balanced) group and gear yourself like crazy. There is nothing more powerful than a team work. TRs are naturally good at PvP due to their skill rotations and stealth. Still, there are many ways to defeat TRs with CW, it's all about the perfect timing. You can be like all awesome alone, but at the end of the day... if your team lose, it's over. When I pug, majority of players give """" about me. They just solo everything, and that's not good.
I have interesting suggestion:
1) Reduce incoming damage and healing by 50%.
2) Give "que" a multiple option - 10k GS only - 15k GS only - 20k GS - no limit (average item level).
3) Provide PvP specific skill/spells.
That's how PW can improve the PvP if they feel like it. I'm not saying my suggestion is 100% perfect, but it can be done.
Just don't think it will ever be fair, some people love unfairness because they win :P
PvP can be improved, but it will never be fair. In terms of players matching, that's pretty much what you get for pugging. Best way to survive in PvP would be to find a decent (balanced) group and gear yourself like crazy. There is nothing more powerful than a team work. TRs are naturally good at PvP due to their skill rotations and stealth. Still, there are many ways to defeat TRs with CW, it's all about the perfect timing. You can be like all awesome alone, but at the end of the day... if your team lose, it's over. When I pug, majority of players give """" about me. They just solo everything, and that's not good.
I have interesting suggestion:
1) Reduce incoming damage and healing by 50%.
2) Give "que" a multiple option - 10k GS only - 15k GS only - 20k GS - no limit (average item level).
3) Provide PvP specific skill/spells.
That's how PW can improve the PvP if they feel like it. I'm not saying my suggestion is 100% perfect, but it can be done.
Just don't think it will ever be fair, some people love unfairness because they win :P
Naturally good? whats natural about it? This is a game it's all artificial - if you want you can make a useless class using stealth or you can over buff it like they did it now. For example give stealth that breaks on combat - make the class deal low to average dmg and be squishy. One aoe hit - you are in combat you are revealed. Class uses stealth - and guess what its not naturally good at pvp.
Simple things - stealth is not invisibility by definition and all it should give is the surprise. That means once combat started you should not be able to use it without special circumstances. And considering the simple fact that you already got and advantage means that if you failed to use this advantage you should lose the fight. Is it like that now - NO - you dodge the one shot then the tr beats you up anyway. Moreover stealth is used to take people one by one without others to notice, however now rogues just face roll groups of people and have the highest chance to win.
One key issue is that in PvP the most you are going to fight will be five. In PvE you are going to be up against ten, twenty, or more and skills are designed in a way that best fit a player to do so. I have always felt that developers for this game design it around PvE and after the desired result has been accomplished they onlythen consider what the effect on PvP will be. PvP is a small community, and honestly I don't ever see it growing much more. This is a PvE game and players who are hardcore into PvP just need to accept that they will always be on the back burner for needs and wants being addressed.
Do you think if something new is given to pvp players that it somehow detracts from your wants? When a new mod is released do you ever have doubts there will be something new for PVE? You guys have all of these dungeons, plenty to choose from yet you treat pvpers like we have no right to ask for anything new. Sounds like some of you PVE'ers need to look in the mirror before classifying pvpers as toxic because this is toxic behavior and downright nasty and oppressive.
Do you think if something new is given to pvp players that it somehow detracts from your wants? When a new mod is released do you ever have doubts there will be something new for PVE? You guys have all of these dungeons, plenty to choose from yet you treat pvpers like we have no right to ask for anything new. Sounds like some of you PVE'ers need to look in the mirror before classifying pvpers as toxic because this is toxic behavior and downright nasty and oppressive.
Yes. Every patch they work on pvp, and it almost always trashes pve builds and hurts pve.
The design of this game is not geared toward prolonged retention so no, I don't agree that PvP is the real end game. I think hardcore PvP players have been beating their heads against the wall thinking that someday Neverwinter will satisfy their needs. I'm saying it is never going to happen to the degree that will make PvP for this game ever a viable place for those who really enjoy PvP. The priority just isn't there.
Comments
Wait, so you are saying players should not equip their best gear in an MMO?
Yes, a universally bad experience in playing a game is the fault of the players and not the game makers. PvP is rife with toxic players and cheaters because the game-makers utter fail in creating a legit pvp game and instead give us this bug laiden imbalanced thing. HAMSTER attracts flies and maggots, an easily exploited, imbalanced and buggy game attracts exploiters and people who will exploit imbalances and bugs.
Right but those are the minority.
Most people do not want to waste 20 minutes waiting for queue, only to have a 1 minute match and then LOSE LEADERBOARD RANKING DESPITE WINNING.
Feel free to enlighten the masses as to why the ranking matter. Even if your brown nosed mind can come up with a single reason after hours of thinking, I could nullify it in seconds. But for fun, humor me.
Allow me: The "ranking matter" because the leaderboard is the only way to measure the success or failure of a character against the success or failure of the other players. It is the only system in the game in which competition is tracked over a players pvp career.
Why does the tracking of wins/losses matter in any sport or game? Without these standings you have no sports leagues.
I cannot imagine a more ignorant question phrased in a more rude way.
The difference here is:
In a real sports league, teams play under an established set of rules adjudicated by a neutral third party, and both teams agree to be punished for infractions should they arise. Therefore the rankings of teams in a league much more closely corresponds to differences in talent or skill.
In Neverwinter PVP, teams openly exploit and break the rules, and the rankings correspond to which players are the biggest cheaters.
Ever seen another MMO where you can pass your max level characters bis gear to a lvl 10 alt?
actually a few points of note for you (and anyone else not already privy):
1) stats have been reset at least once already since they were added, so they do not reflect the overall success/failure of anyone on a given toon over their 'career"
2) we are not using any leagues or ladders, etc. I would love to see that though where matches were setup more intentionally rather than the random pug vs premade ugliness that we presently see.
3) There is currently a stink about anyone on the top few pages of the leaderboard that has spread around like wildfire that many are allegedly cheating and abusing several exploits that erroneously place them at the top pages regardless of their actual skill level.
4) there have been bugs and exploits abused in just about every module since the leaderboard was introduced that taint whatever stats you might see anyway. (class mismatches and builds aside)
Before you go insulting others with the accusation of ignorance, you might want to consider the above regarding the current state of Neverwinter PVP.
I'd love to see the potential of Neverwinter's PVP more realized than it is now. more maps, more gametypes even on same maps, lobby system to setup specific matches, leagues, ladders, tourments. Mods that actively run and administer all of the above to ensure rules are followed, no foul play keep the toxicity down. I know many of us are guilty of not always promoting a helpful, friendly and fun environment in pvp. No one wants to be ROFL stomped into the ground by a group they have zero chance vs, whether to attain daily RAD quests or just for fun, or even those that seek the thrill of a close competitive match.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-s4zYaT6Hg&feature=youtu.be
I agree entirely. For rankins to be legit, the leaderboard needs to be legit. Neverwinter pvp needs to be legit. Saying it doesn't matter and so should not be fixed is pointless.
i see a lot TR´s with no Tenacity no defensive stats- sab permastealth probably, up to 13k Power buffed in fight, who can easily finish u in seconds if not running or shifting arround like a chicken all time
GWF is really hard to play, especially against these dudes reflecting everything
TR and DC and lots of CW´s go PVP in PVE (insane stats) setup and melt everything down in seconds, no Tenacity or DR does help against this "everything ignoring piercing or instant killing damage"
since devs are aware of this problem and don´t change this mess, only way is to play these classes (poor) or stay away or play a range class....warlock who is weak in case of defensive mechanism, but .... you can run arround
You kidding?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu8X-bll7aQ
You know...Your words offend me :P look at this and tell me again i am bad geared.
PS. i have already enough people who trying to defend broken TR.
I can imagine you TRs when 14/15k GWF can ignored all your defense and ITC and deal you 50k dmg from single IBS, i can already hear that cry- plx nerf GWF. really embarrassing
Maybe using a rank factor, like if you played alot pvp you rank got higher so you dont play anymore whith the lower rank pvp players.
I love if the game as some fair matchs, but isnt something easy to make.
Or you could just lock gear into place during the match...
I'm thinking this might not be a coincidence at all.
or maybe devs are too busy with module 6 and all the changes it'll bring to character stats, and prefer to do that before doing any changes to characters for now.
Well put.....
It matters little, Eg. if you are a tr that takes the opponent point - kill away those stragglers that try to retake it. It pretty obviously counts less than running capturing points all the time.
If that tr should score any higher - he would have to abandon the point, wait till its retaken then hurry to kill people and retake the point ad infinitum. Conterproductive to acheiving victory in the match.
A tr with kill death ratio 4/1 will find himself on the leaderboard next to people dying 3 times for killing 1.
So why should it matter?
Double TRs in each team usually lol.
But anyway, pvp as far as I'm concerned is alive and well, I like the current crazy dps version, it reminds me of mod2 pvp when I first joined, the HR trapper right now is almost a perfect copy of the old stormstep stormwarden in playstyle and really fun.
I'd hate to play a gwf or a sw this mod, unless I was stupid high gs. But the other classes, all good if you build right, and you don't have too many 7k wonders on your team
And pvp is alive and well !!!
PvP can be improved, but it will never be fair. In terms of players matching, that's pretty much what you get for pugging. Best way to survive in PvP would be to find a decent (balanced) group and gear yourself like crazy. There is nothing more powerful than a team work. TRs are naturally good at PvP due to their skill rotations and stealth. Still, there are many ways to defeat TRs with CW, it's all about the perfect timing. You can be like all awesome alone, but at the end of the day... if your team lose, it's over. When I pug, majority of players give """" about me. They just solo everything, and that's not good.
I have interesting suggestion:
1) Reduce incoming damage and healing by 50%.
2) Give "que" a multiple option - 10k GS only - 15k GS only - 20k GS - no limit (average item level).
3) Provide PvP specific skill/spells.
That's how PW can improve the PvP if they feel like it. I'm not saying my suggestion is 100% perfect, but it can be done.
Just don't think it will ever be fair, some people love unfairness because they win :P
Naturally good? whats natural about it? This is a game it's all artificial - if you want you can make a useless class using stealth or you can over buff it like they did it now. For example give stealth that breaks on combat - make the class deal low to average dmg and be squishy. One aoe hit - you are in combat you are revealed. Class uses stealth - and guess what its not naturally good at pvp.
Simple things - stealth is not invisibility by definition and all it should give is the surprise. That means once combat started you should not be able to use it without special circumstances. And considering the simple fact that you already got and advantage means that if you failed to use this advantage you should lose the fight. Is it like that now - NO - you dodge the one shot then the tr beats you up anyway. Moreover stealth is used to take people one by one without others to notice, however now rogues just face roll groups of people and have the highest chance to win.
Of all the things to nerf...
Do you think if something new is given to pvp players that it somehow detracts from your wants? When a new mod is released do you ever have doubts there will be something new for PVE? You guys have all of these dungeons, plenty to choose from yet you treat pvpers like we have no right to ask for anything new. Sounds like some of you PVE'ers need to look in the mirror before classifying pvpers as toxic because this is toxic behavior and downright nasty and oppressive.
Yes. Every patch they work on pvp, and it almost always trashes pve builds and hurts pve.
Your ideas are rather selfish.