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Spellstorm Renegade Guide: Death is the Best Crowd Control

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    smulchsmulch Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 625 Arc User
    Building crit when you have chaos nexus is a 33% effectiveness reduction on any crit you get after the 70% baseline. So maybe it's still worth it but I honestly doubt it.
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    ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    Well...Chaotic Nexus is still random. So it only renders the extra Critical Strike useless when it procs. I'd rather be over-compensating and be at or near 100% critical strike as much as I can, then be dependent on a random proc when I don't have to be.
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    brisedabriseda Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    Hey guys,

    Well here is the main two gear combinations that I am comparing. Kind of a difficult decision for me, so maybe you guys can give me your insight and help me decide what is better. =)

    Combo 1:

    Head- Dusk Raid
    Body- Elemental Dragon Flight Raid
    Arms- Elemental Dragon Flight Raid
    Feet-Dusk Raid Feet

    Combo 2:

    Head- Elemental DragonFlight Raid
    Body- Dusk Raid
    Arms- Elemental Dragon Flight Raid
    Feet- Dusk Raid

    To save you guys the trouble of looking ingame: The Dusk Raid are interchangable for the most part (Head and Feet).

    However, the golden question that I have is really regarding the body piece.

    Dusk Raid Robes: 19,039 Maximum HP, +7 AC, 882 Power, 1323 Critical Strike, 490 defense
    Elemental Dragon-Flight Raid Robes- 21,937 maximum HP, +7 AC, 1010 power, 1515 recovery, 526 defense.

    For most people would say ofc go for the dusk raid robes because of critical strike and how important it is for CW. But due to my own circumstance its a bit more difficult then that. For one, the Elemental DragonFlight Raid Robe Maximizes the amount of stats you get (Body gears gives the most). 2nd reason, with my companion I can up my crit to about 90-94% depending on the gear that I choose. 90% with option 1 and about 94% with options 2. Comparing 90 vs 94 is pretty hard because for one, they are BOTH near 100%. And crit is crit, you either crit or you dont. Recovery you get a guarantee higher AP gain and faster cd on encounters.

    Rough estimate on differences (without companion in stats, just keep it in mind):
    Dusk raid body- about 65% to 66% +- critical strike % with 4000 +- recovery

    or

    Elemental Dragonflight Raid Robes- about 62% to 63% +- critical strike % with 5500 recovery.
    + Littlebit More HP and Defense.

    Thanks for reading!
    Your feedback will help me on making this decision and have a wonderful holiday season!
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    ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    You're honestly splitting hairs. Personally I'd go with the Dusk Raid body. But you're lucky to have the choice. Either is fine.
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    thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited December 2015

    You're honestly splitting hairs. Personally I'd go with the Dusk Raid body. But you're lucky to have the choice. Either is fine.

    The way I am going right now is 3 dusk and 1 dragonflight, the reason for this is because it means I balance my gear and stats around having those pieces and if the veserub (or however you spell the name of that mount on preview) turns out to be as good as I think it will be, I can straight away swap out my snail for it and get the mount affinity, rather then having to mess with my other gear as well.
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    adriaen666adriaen666 Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    For me, the best combo is:
    Dusk Head
    Dusk Body
    Elemental Dragonflight Raid Armlets
    Elemental Drowcraft Raid Shoes.

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    romotheoneromotheone Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 729 Arc User
    edited December 2015

    boom782 said:

    You definitely spend much more time without nexus though than you do with it so I would say it balances out and with LM set and Storm Spell, having near 100% crit all the time definitely outweighs the short amount of time you may be at 120+%.

    I agree. I would personally make it a point to achieve near 100% critical strike without Chaotic Nexus. Still works great as a team buff, but I'd push for 100%. If you're parsing your runs with ACT, I think having consistently above 90%+ critical strike on your core attacks is a good target.

    Again, I know others feel differently, but I'm a strong advocate for Spell Twisting + Power/Crit stats, versus investing otherwise in Recovery.
    Getting near 100% crit chance is a waste of DPS imo. I know that critting also means SS+LM procs, but has anyone actually come up with a formula for dps with SS+LM involved in it or even just a formula without any LM+SS procs?

    If you have a limited amount of points you can allocate, let's say 100. If you put all 100 points into crit, there will be nothing for the crit to multiply. There is a golden middle way that gives you the most DPS. I only understand the theory, I'm bad at math but I'm sure as hell that it is not "put everything into crit".
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    thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    I have tried doing a formula with lolset procs and tbh its really complicated. I do tend to agree though that going all out crit is not ideal, whilst I would recommend more then 65%, I do not recommend pushing for 100. For this reason, I think brutal enchantments are the best offensive slot enchantments.
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    ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited December 2015
    Indeed. I'm going with Brutals as well.

    Also, as far as critical strike goes, no one's actually achieving 100% without proc'ing three bonding runestones, so you do have down time. As much as we want to say we are, in fights lasting longer than 20 seconds, no one's rocking "character sheet" 100% critical strike 100% of the time. Hence why I just track my critical strike through ACT.

    If I'm hitting the 100% critical strike mark with three bonding runestones, over the course of a dungeon it tends to average out to low 90%'s for critical strikes in my at-will, encounter and daily abilities, which I'm happy with.

    My character sheet critical strike with no combat buffs is 58% right now.

    So theory vs practice.

    As far as gear, I'm wearing:

    Elemental Dragonflight Assault Cap
    Elemental Drowcraft Raid Robes
    Elemental Dragonflight Raid Armlets
    Elemental Drowcraft Raid Shoes

    But it'll be interesting to see what the deal is with the Veserab. Is that going to be another Lostmauth or actually only do the damage listed. That doe make the Dusk set a lot more interesting, too. I haven't bothered to spent the Tradebars on anything, but I do have the boots from the Zen store package. The Drowcraft set isn't really useful outside of Demogorgon, and honestly not even necessary, but it was super easy to get...In fact, I'll probably mull over switching now because of it.

    It'll also be interesting to see what armor Module 9 brings. I'm convinced will see new dungeons, and with that should come new gear. I can't imagine they'd put effort into reworking content and NOT offer better rewards.

    Anyway, it's refreshing to actually have discussions about armor sets, instead of parroting HV, HV, HV for months and months and months.

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    thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    But don't you know zerg.....in a good group, even in mod 8, HV IS STILL the best armour set :p (not that you actually need it in a good group, but it still takes 1st place :p)
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    niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    We are getting to a point (when you are very well geared) that opens up an opportunity for Cryptic to add variety and $ by giving the playerbase a feature that used to be only called for when switching from PVE to PVP....gear profile switching. It would be awesome if this was implemented with more than one profile change option.
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    brisedabriseda Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    After series of test and many different variations, I have found the BiS that I believe is the best for me. (Obviously your BiS will vary greatly on many different variables such as Guild Boon, Artifact, Companion).

    Duskraid cap
    Dusk raid robes
    Elemental dragonflight raid armlet
    Elemental Drowcraft Raid Shoes

    about 68-70% crit base (no companion)
    4.5k Recovery in combat

    I honestly believe that somewhere between 78%-90% crit is the GOLDEN crit range.(With companion) Exceeding 90% (not including Chaos nexus) is a complete waste and you can probably get more recovery and power.

    As for recovery the optimal range is between 3.5k-4.5k Somewhere along these is the best.

    Obviously for most people what I just wrote wont matter, but if you are perfectionist and have the resource, or if you want to see example of a close to "Perfekt" cw, then follow the guidelines above.
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    vincentr6669vincentr6669 Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    ANOOOTHER question:

    I was thinking about how Swath of Destruction boosts the damage smoldered enemies take by 30% (rank 4 + off-hand power) and still is outdamaged by Spell Storm. Then i got to think: despite that, smoldered enemies will take +30% from ALL party members right? (at least the wording on Swath of Destruction says the enemies take extra damage, not that you cause extra damage, so your allies should benefit too)

    If that's true, it's better to boost everybody DPS by Smoldering enemies (while Swath of Destruction is slotted of course), than boost only your own DPS with Spell Storm. It's the same logic with Thaumaturgic and Renegade. The first boosts more your DPS, but the second boosts everybody.

    Food for thought.
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    ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    First, the offhand feature only increases your smolder damage by 10%. It doesn't affect the debuff on SoD. So either way it's a 20% debuff. And yes, it benefits your party members as well.

    And yes, that's a very nice debuff and @beatannier has put together a superb guide to the MoF here. If you'd prefer to play MoF, I'd still keep mostly the same Renegade build I'm doing now, only changing out SoD for Storm Spell, and utilize Scorching Burst to apply the initial Smolder. If and when Cryptic does some balancing and the guide needs to be re-written, I'll likely expand it to be about the Renegade tree in general (unless something fabulous happens to Oppressor or Thaumaturge) and include sections on the MoF.

    But personally, I still prefer the playstyle of the Spellstorm Mage over the Master of Flame.
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    vincentr6669vincentr6669 Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    Damn, i must've over thought about off-hand feature on SoD, but anyway i was just pointing out that one of the selling points of your guide was Chaotic Magic and Nightmare Wizardry buffing all party so SoD is more fitting to the "team player" role than Spell Storm.

    Besides that, i also prefer the Spellstorm playstyle and aesthetics, i was just trying to be perfectionist.
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    ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    The goal of the build was to bring the best of three things together: Damage, Crowd Control, Buffs/Debuffs. And this is it, in my opinion. There's other builds out there that are better at either damage OR crowd control Or buffing/debuffing, but I don't feel like anything brings all three together as well as this one.

    So if you're looking for something else in a build, then you can adjust for it. If you want to bring a stronger debuff to the group, at the expense of damage, then MoF is great. If you want to do more personal damage at the expense of the group buffs/debuffs, switch to Thaumaturge. If you really want to focus on CC, then use the Oppressor.

    But in my opinion, the sum of all three parts are greatest here, which is what I like.
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    thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    The goal of the build was to bring the best of three things together: Damage, Crowd Control, Buffs/Debuffs. And this is it, in my opinion. There's other builds out there that are better at either damage OR crowd control Or buffing/debuffing, but I don't feel like anything brings all three together as well as this one.

    So if you're looking for something else in a build, then you can adjust for it. If you want to bring a stronger debuff to the group, at the expense of damage, then MoF is great. If you want to do more personal damage at the expense of the group buffs/debuffs, switch to Thaumaturge. If you really want to focus on CC, then use the Oppressor.

    But in my opinion, the sum of all three parts are greatest here, which is what I like.

    The way it is for me, I like spell storm because of lightning effects+damage and I like renegade because of chaotic growth :p Over all though yes, this is a jack of all trades and master of none build, I tried running a pure debuff build for a while and honestly, whilst in a proper group its magical, when you are not running with a proper group it seems like a waste. Also, chaotic growth does far more for survivability then people realise which is why it is so amazing in my books :)
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    tivvumtivvum Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    I would like to quickly thank you for all the information in this guide.
    As a newbie starting late in the game this kind of information is invaluable.

    Good Job!
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    smulchsmulch Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 625 Arc User
    no, brutals are still the way to go. They give more stats than other options and give the two most wanted stat. If anything, you want to play around with your other items. Don't forget that there should be 5% crit from feats (the proc) and another 30% chance from chaos nexus. You are at a point of diminishing value for crit though.
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    soonergmsoonergm Member Posts: 503 Arc User
    I have a question... clearly the companion stacked with bonding runestones is the best way to go. Its also very expensive. But so is refining a weapon enchantment to pure or transcendant level. And so is maxing out all your brutals. So which is the best investment to go with first?
    My Toons

    SoonerGM - HR Trapper
    Haven - Righteous Cleric
    Ethereal Justice - OP Paladin
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    thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    soonergm said:

    I have a question... clearly the companion stacked with bonding runestones is the best way to go. Its also very expensive. But so is refining a weapon enchantment to pure or transcendant level. And so is maxing out all your brutals. So which is the best investment to go with first?

    Weapon to pure>bonding>brutals. You get your biggest dps boost by doing it in that order, no need to go transcendant immediately though, there isn't too big of a jump.
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    smulchsmulch Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 625 Arc User
    edited January 2016

    soonergm said:

    I have a question... clearly the companion stacked with bonding runestones is the best way to go. Its also very expensive. But so is refining a weapon enchantment to pure or transcendant level. And so is maxing out all your brutals. So which is the best investment to go with first?

    Weapon to pure>bonding>brutals. You get your biggest dps boost by doing it in that order, no need to go transcendant immediately though, there isn't too big of a jump.
    Bonding r12 is by far the best damage increase you can get for the price. Pure is not even worth getting (if you are using vorpal) and brutal is highly expensive to max out. I got myself full r10 brutals during the last x2 event and it cost me about 6m ad for 10 enchants.

    Edit: I'm assuming that vorpal enchants are truly 50% at pure and trans, unlike bonding that are more than what is told.
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    urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    smulch said:

    soonergm said:

    I have a question... clearly the companion stacked with bonding runestones is the best way to go. Its also very expensive. But so is refining a weapon enchantment to pure or transcendant level. And so is maxing out all your brutals. So which is the best investment to go with first?

    Weapon to pure>bonding>brutals. You get your biggest dps boost by doing it in that order, no need to go transcendant immediately though, there isn't too big of a jump.
    Bonding r12 is by far the best damage increase you can get for the price. Pure is not even worth getting (if you are using vorpal) and brutal is highly expensive to max out. I got myself full r10 brutals during the last x2 event and it cost me about 6m ad for 10 enchants.

    Edit: I'm assuming that vorpal enchants are truly 50% at pure and trans, unlike bonding that are more than what is told.
    If the debuff on vorpal works like it does on plaguefire it still works out to something like a 1.2% damage buff for the whole party. The price for a r11 to rank 12 bonding is about the same and 10% extra stats you get definitely aren't going to increase your party's damage as much.

    Still splitting hairs because at that point basically every upgrade costs about that much and you get pretty marginal gains.
    I8r4ux9.jpg
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    smulchsmulch Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 625 Arc User
    urabask said:

    smulch said:

    soonergm said:

    I have a question... clearly the companion stacked with bonding runestones is the best way to go. Its also very expensive. But so is refining a weapon enchantment to pure or transcendant level. And so is maxing out all your brutals. So which is the best investment to go with first?

    Weapon to pure>bonding>brutals. You get your biggest dps boost by doing it in that order, no need to go transcendant immediately though, there isn't too big of a jump.
    Bonding r12 is by far the best damage increase you can get for the price. Pure is not even worth getting (if you are using vorpal) and brutal is highly expensive to max out. I got myself full r10 brutals during the last x2 event and it cost me about 6m ad for 10 enchants.

    Edit: I'm assuming that vorpal enchants are truly 50% at pure and trans, unlike bonding that are more than what is told.
    If the debuff on vorpal works like it does on plaguefire it still works out to something like a 1.2% damage buff for the whole party. The price for a r11 to rank 12 bonding is about the same and 10% extra stats you get definitely aren't going to increase your party's damage as much.

    Still splitting hairs because at that point basically every upgrade costs about that much and you get pretty marginal gains.
    it's 15% from r11 to r12 . And it's a lot more than a r12 vorpal (or r11) gives. Don't forget that it also add a decent amount of power by itself and also affect the pet and you have a significantly better upgrade.
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    urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    smulch said:

    urabask said:

    smulch said:

    soonergm said:

    I have a question... clearly the companion stacked with bonding runestones is the best way to go. Its also very expensive. But so is refining a weapon enchantment to pure or transcendant level. And so is maxing out all your brutals. So which is the best investment to go with first?

    Weapon to pure>bonding>brutals. You get your biggest dps boost by doing it in that order, no need to go transcendant immediately though, there isn't too big of a jump.
    Bonding r12 is by far the best damage increase you can get for the price. Pure is not even worth getting (if you are using vorpal) and brutal is highly expensive to max out. I got myself full r10 brutals during the last x2 event and it cost me about 6m ad for 10 enchants.

    Edit: I'm assuming that vorpal enchants are truly 50% at pure and trans, unlike bonding that are more than what is told.
    If the debuff on vorpal works like it does on plaguefire it still works out to something like a 1.2% damage buff for the whole party. The price for a r11 to rank 12 bonding is about the same and 10% extra stats you get definitely aren't going to increase your party's damage as much.

    Still splitting hairs because at that point basically every upgrade costs about that much and you get pretty marginal gains.
    it's 15% from r11 to r12 . And it's a lot more than a r12 vorpal (or r11) gives. Don't forget that it also add a decent amount of power by itself and also affect the pet and you have a significantly better upgrade.
    Even if you were getting 1000 extra power for upgrading that r11 to a r12 it's not going to be equal to the debuff from a pure vorpal. The vorpal debuff affects your whole party's damage including more likely than not characters that are already out-DPSing you. So lets be generous and say that you get 3% extra damage from your upgrade. It's not equal to a 1.2% buff on yourself, a GWF, HR, DC, and OP/GF in your party.

    And no matter what you do your pet is going to be doing peanuts for damage.
    I8r4ux9.jpg
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    smulchsmulch Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 625 Arc User
    urabask said:

    smulch said:

    urabask said:

    smulch said:

    soonergm said:

    I have a question... clearly the companion stacked with bonding runestones is the best way to go. Its also very expensive. But so is refining a weapon enchantment to pure or transcendant level. And so is maxing out all your brutals. So which is the best investment to go with first?

    Weapon to pure>bonding>brutals. You get your biggest dps boost by doing it in that order, no need to go transcendant immediately though, there isn't too big of a jump.
    Bonding r12 is by far the best damage increase you can get for the price. Pure is not even worth getting (if you are using vorpal) and brutal is highly expensive to max out. I got myself full r10 brutals during the last x2 event and it cost me about 6m ad for 10 enchants.

    Edit: I'm assuming that vorpal enchants are truly 50% at pure and trans, unlike bonding that are more than what is told.
    If the debuff on vorpal works like it does on plaguefire it still works out to something like a 1.2% damage buff for the whole party. The price for a r11 to rank 12 bonding is about the same and 10% extra stats you get definitely aren't going to increase your party's damage as much.

    Still splitting hairs because at that point basically every upgrade costs about that much and you get pretty marginal gains.
    it's 15% from r11 to r12 . And it's a lot more than a r12 vorpal (or r11) gives. Don't forget that it also add a decent amount of power by itself and also affect the pet and you have a significantly better upgrade.
    Even if you were getting 1000 extra power for upgrading that r11 to a r12 it's not going to be equal to the debuff from a pure vorpal. The vorpal debuff affects your whole party's damage including more likely than not characters that are already out-DPSing you. So lets be generous and say that you get 3% extra damage from your upgrade. It's not equal to a 1.2% buff on yourself, a GWF, HR, DC, and OP/GF in your party.

    And no matter what you do your pet is going to be doing peanuts for damage.
    You'd be amazed at how much certain pets are able to hit for. Shadow demon is a prime example. Also, it's not just power. It's also crit and possibly recovery too. That vorpal also don't stack with other vorpals.
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    thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    smulch said:

    urabask said:

    smulch said:

    urabask said:

    smulch said:

    soonergm said:

    I have a question... clearly the companion stacked with bonding runestones is the best way to go. Its also very expensive. But so is refining a weapon enchantment to pure or transcendant level. And so is maxing out all your brutals. So which is the best investment to go with first?

    Weapon to pure>bonding>brutals. You get your biggest dps boost by doing it in that order, no need to go transcendant immediately though, there isn't too big of a jump.
    Bonding r12 is by far the best damage increase you can get for the price. Pure is not even worth getting (if you are using vorpal) and brutal is highly expensive to max out. I got myself full r10 brutals during the last x2 event and it cost me about 6m ad for 10 enchants.

    Edit: I'm assuming that vorpal enchants are truly 50% at pure and trans, unlike bonding that are more than what is told.
    If the debuff on vorpal works like it does on plaguefire it still works out to something like a 1.2% damage buff for the whole party. The price for a r11 to rank 12 bonding is about the same and 10% extra stats you get definitely aren't going to increase your party's damage as much.

    Still splitting hairs because at that point basically every upgrade costs about that much and you get pretty marginal gains.
    it's 15% from r11 to r12 . And it's a lot more than a r12 vorpal (or r11) gives. Don't forget that it also add a decent amount of power by itself and also affect the pet and you have a significantly better upgrade.
    Even if you were getting 1000 extra power for upgrading that r11 to a r12 it's not going to be equal to the debuff from a pure vorpal. The vorpal debuff affects your whole party's damage including more likely than not characters that are already out-DPSing you. So lets be generous and say that you get 3% extra damage from your upgrade. It's not equal to a 1.2% buff on yourself, a GWF, HR, DC, and OP/GF in your party.

    And no matter what you do your pet is going to be doing peanuts for damage.
    You'd be amazed at how much certain pets are able to hit for. Shadow demon is a prime example. Also, it's not just power. It's also crit and possibly recovery too. That vorpal also don't stack with other vorpals.
    It really depends honestly, when I put my bonding stones on ungeared chars its significant, but on a very geared or close to BiS char its at most a 10% damage increase. It really depends where you are in gear.
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    sgkaltezarsgkaltezar Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Hello,

    My CW is currently at 41.2% Arpen for a 2k1 GS.

    I've difficulties to find what is the DR of encounters in the last mod. Someone said me that the 60% DR of Tiamat was not anymore true and staking Arpen over 40% wasn't of any use.

    Could anyone here confirm that ?

    I'm thinking about exchanging my Arpen enchants for some Critical Hit rating enchants, but I want more input before taking that kind of decision.

    Regards.

    EDIT: I forgot, thank you IronZerg for the guide ... I'm doing less DPS than some friends, but I love the gamestyle and the buffs of the Renegade Spellstorm that fit well my Chaotic Neutral character :)

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    ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    Armor Pen cap is still 60% as far as I know. I don't think anything has changed. Getting to that 60% Armor Pen cap is going to make a big difference in your performance.
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