Also the minimum GS needs to be increased to 15-17k. Sorry if you can't go but this should be Epic. Like every other game in the mmo genre.. raids are high end and not everyone gets to go.
Now you can make a 60, put some rank 7's in unlock content and failaway at tiamat. Should have to work on your character to get into this place.
I think we have an issue now, my instance had over 15 ppl with at least two legendaries, we had about 5 people on each head, and we still failed. Maybe you made it to hard cryptic? Everyone in my party had over 10k power and it took us 20 minnutes to kill 1 head, and most players dont have that much power.
Because 5% of the population (the so-called "Elite") demanded it to be harder, so the remaining 95% now have to deal with it. Some want it even harder, which illustrates that some have no clue on what it could implicate. I would pay 1mil AD to see their faces when a single regular mob (non-elite) one-hit a 60k HP BiS GF. :rolleyes:
Leanan Sidhe(not "The Dresde Files" fairy!)- NW Legit Channel Moderator
Also the minimum GS needs to be increased to 15-17k. Sorry if you can't go but this should be Epic. Like every other game in the mmo genre.. raids are high end and not everyone gets to go.
Now you can make a 60, put some rank 7's in unlock content and failaway at tiamat. Should have to work on your character to get into this place.
I have to agree with that, nothing higher than 15k, but if you're anything lower, you're letting the team down and need to work on your character more.
Anyway, did anybody find a proper heads rotation? I mean, what's better order? I find white head too weak and more "DPS" friendly while Blue heads desolates everything and should be dealt with first as it requires too much time to take down?
Because 5% of the population (the so-called "Elite") demanded it to be harder, so the remaining 95% now have to deal with it. Some want it even harder, which illustrates that some have no clue on what it could implicate. I would pay 1mil AD to see their faces when a single regular mob (non-elite) one-hit a 60k HP BiS GF. :rolleyes:
5%? You're exaggerating, it's like 30-40% of the geared player database.
I am a 37k HP warlock, I don't get oneshot by regular add?
The fight does not need to be nerfed at all. It is not difficult. The only difficulty is that you have to pug it. You cant get people to get off the head that is almost dead even though there is another head that is at 90%. Forcing people to join with others that are purposely doing things that causes the group to lose is not fun or the right kind of challenging.
IGNORE ME>> NOTHING TO SEE HERE...
REMOVED MY POST AS THIS POST WAS MOVED HERE AND IS THEREFORE OUT OF CONTEXT.
Mods, feel free to delete this entry. Discussion among players of tactics is not in any way feedback and moving it to a feedback thread made it irrelevant.
I won't go into bugs, or perceived bugs, there's not point. Other will rant about them in other threads, and probably this one too. I'm concerned about the design itself.
I actually rather liked the fight. Kill the summoners, kill Severin, then despite all that, Tiamat gets summoned anyway (it wouldn't be dramatically correct if killing them actually prevented them from summoning her afterall...). Then, protect the clerics, then fight all the heads - you have to kill them all in one round and it up to US as players to figure out that this means ONE TEAM PER HEAD. We haven't figured that out yet, clearly, so fails all around - that's not a design flaw (though I'm sure people will cry that it is), in fact I like that this is a hard challenge - it's about time so kudos for that.
Here's the main flaw: You can't form your own teams. If you show up with a team, your team is scattered to other instances. That means, you can't trust anyone else in your instances knows what to do -- it's pug only. There were enough ppl in my guild doing it that we had more than 5 teams trying to get in at the same time so we could play it as a guild -- but of course, that was a major failure.
To win, you need 25 people with fairly decent gear who are well coordinated and know what they're doing. Getting this combination in a random pug environment will be extremely rare, to say nothing of the people who will doubtlessly AFK and therefore ruin it for everyone since every single person is necessary in this fight.
So, while I like the fight as a whole, the inability to form premade teams makes it a no-go for me - I might pop in there once in a while, but I'm probably done with the whole ToD arc at least for the time being. I hope Mod 5 (since this WAS NOT a mod5 - it was mod4.5) is about improvements to the Guild system (like Season 6 was for STO) instead of just another grind-o-matic campaign.
Related with both PvP and PvE, the ToT dynamic pretty much shows us the reality of just how most players are in NW.
■ most players lag way behind the recommended content in terms of character spec/gear
■ most players with enough spec/gear don't have much clue as to how to use it well
■ most players have been so much used to care-free, easy mode PvE that requires neither tight game management nor self-improvement/investment, that when you gather them up for a task which requires a cooperative effort, it becomes a DISASTER.
In short, my perception of the player base in NW -- based on the ToT experience -- is that when compared to contemporary MMOGs -- for example World of Warcraft -- the average player base is generally much lower in skill, understanding, preparation levels required for a mass-objective such as 25-man raids.
It's only natural. You don't need any skill for PvE. You don't need any real understanding, or any real preparation, or experience for that matter. Like many have adequately pointed out, NW PvE is generally just too easy. And when a group of people have been in such a nice, care-bear greenhouse environment for such a long time, the moment they are put in a situation where it requires them to pull their weight, it fails.
As a result, ToT groups generally have this massive number of clueless free loaders that hardly really contribute to the event. Stuff like how my group, numbering only 4~5 people, take down a Tiamat head ourselves alone within the 2 minute time frame, but then seeing more than 8~10 people on other heads barely even making a dent.. or things like how our small group manages to protect the cleric to "power up" within a minute or two, while seeing other groups with twice our numbers having their "cleric meter" still at only 50%... for like 5 minutes straight...
...it kind of makes you wonder.
In my case, in the most recent ToT the entire group took more than 8 minutes to finally see the first emergence of the 5 heads. Then it takes another 5~6 minutes to prepare the clerics again.. and then it seems usually the 2nd time we see the tiamat heads the event's about to be over.
When compared to other contemporary MMOGs and how they design their mass-events, ToT is actually pretty easy. It's not particularly deadly, nor does it require any precision timing, nor any superb tactics or party making. In WoW, for example, if you have even on ONE member out of those 25 that's not up to snuff and usually all 25 people will get wiped out. There's a reason why there are Guilds that specialize in Raid/Dungeon hard/epic modes in that game. It is a real challenge there, even if it is PvE.
In ToT -- all you need is enough DPS. And NW people can't even do that. That's what the general player base is like in NW. A horde of freeloaders.
Same in PvP. This actually shows where all the whines and complaints are coming from. Before ToT, there was no 'test' wihtin the game to show you the reality of how lacking one might be. The PvE mobs don't scorn or goad at you saying, "LoooL, it took 5 team wipes for you people to clear Garakas? You suck!". In the end, it doesn't give you any real ego issues. They're AIs, after all. On the contrary, PvP pits you against others and directly puts you in a competition where you are compared every time, and you realize the reality on where you stand EXACTLY. That hurts pride and egos. Those who can't take this never play PvP. Those who relish it play nothing BUT PvP.
But *bam*! Here we have ToT. And ToT shows many of us just how much we suck.
The moral of this story? At least, if you don't get to the first emergence of the 5 heads within 3~4 minutes, then in all likelihood, your group is just full of freeloaders.
Let's all try to do better. Get some gear please.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Premade teams are optional. What needs to be done is instance chat. Not zone chat, but instance chat. So that everybody in one instance doesn't get info from other people's instances.
Premade teams are optional. What needs to be done is instance chat. Not zone chat, but instance chat. So that everybody in one instance doesn't get info from other people's instances.
Premades getting seperated is my only HUGE gripe. Devs have real life friends right? Hi devs invite your best bro to play some neverwinter and then zone into Tiamat as a team on your "live stream" Good times.
If you take pvp seriously you wouldn't do it in a casual game. Neverwinter pvp is the scrubs who can't make it in real games.
There is no 'casual' or 'serious' in the end when it comes to PvP -- you can have the simplest rock-scissors-paper game and it turns into something more profound when higher understanding of it is reached. And in PvP, people are reminded of the reality of just how well they do every step of the way.
Not in PvE -- or at least, NW PvE. People were used to easy stuff for much too long. ToT simply shows that. Hopefully, the ToT experience might drive some spirit of challenge, or purpose to all them free loaders who thought they were 'doing well' in this game. Because it turns out, they weren't.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Sadly I was the only person using these soul gems and sadly you are doomed with pugs. I understand that it's a heroic encounter but during twitch livestream number of people was limited and you could rely on some of them.
Now you get 11k gs randoms with one green artifact and it's neither up to you nor those selected few who know what to do.
My worst prediction is that Tiamat will be nerfed instead of allowing us to enter with our parties. Tiamat should be difficult and I enjoy it for what it is but some gearscore requirement wouldn't be too much to ask for. This or let us enter with our friends since guilds and parties are in this game for some reason.
We want to run content with our friends, laugh and have fun and we can't - why?
Akro just said the teaming thing is a bug. Nevertheless, it's impossible to coordinate 5 teams into the same instance so the entire thing can be a premade run.
Premade teams are optional. What needs to be done is instance chat. Not zone chat, but instance chat. So that everybody in one instance doesn't get info from other people's instances.
Fighting with dragons in WoD it's laggy. Tiamat is disaster, I was not able even to move, throughout the event I just stood helpless. Everyone who played got at least 1 Linu's Favor, i got zero.
In this case, they need to be able to make a real 25 man raid party. As in one group can invite up to 25 players and all enter the same instance.
I was unable to make the launch of the Tiamat fight and have to wait another half hour before I can see this mess for myself on live. About as much as I thought, from reading already on the forum, it's going to be failures for some time.
Well in my second run when for 5 minutes i had 0 fps it was enough for me and i just had to alt+ctrl+del to close game cause i couldn't even shut it down by normal way. Such a disappointment.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Comments
Now you can make a 60, put some rank 7's in unlock content and failaway at tiamat. Should have to work on your character to get into this place.
The encounter is cool and stuff but the fact that you cannot organize a group to complete it is just frustrating.
Because 5% of the population (the so-called "Elite") demanded it to be harder, so the remaining 95% now have to deal with it. Some want it even harder, which illustrates that some have no clue on what it could implicate. I would pay 1mil AD to see their faces when a single regular mob (non-elite) one-hit a 60k HP BiS GF. :rolleyes:
I have to agree with that, nothing higher than 15k, but if you're anything lower, you're letting the team down and need to work on your character more.
5%? You're exaggerating, it's like 30-40% of the geared player database.
I am a 37k HP warlock, I don't get oneshot by regular add?
WTB Class Reroll please
REMOVED MY POST AS THIS POST WAS MOVED HERE AND IS THEREFORE OUT OF CONTEXT.
Mods, feel free to delete this entry. Discussion among players of tactics is not in any way feedback and moving it to a feedback thread made it irrelevant.
I actually rather liked the fight. Kill the summoners, kill Severin, then despite all that, Tiamat gets summoned anyway (it wouldn't be dramatically correct if killing them actually prevented them from summoning her afterall...). Then, protect the clerics, then fight all the heads - you have to kill them all in one round and it up to US as players to figure out that this means ONE TEAM PER HEAD. We haven't figured that out yet, clearly, so fails all around - that's not a design flaw (though I'm sure people will cry that it is), in fact I like that this is a hard challenge - it's about time so kudos for that.
Here's the main flaw: You can't form your own teams. If you show up with a team, your team is scattered to other instances. That means, you can't trust anyone else in your instances knows what to do -- it's pug only. There were enough ppl in my guild doing it that we had more than 5 teams trying to get in at the same time so we could play it as a guild -- but of course, that was a major failure.
To win, you need 25 people with fairly decent gear who are well coordinated and know what they're doing. Getting this combination in a random pug environment will be extremely rare, to say nothing of the people who will doubtlessly AFK and therefore ruin it for everyone since every single person is necessary in this fight.
So, while I like the fight as a whole, the inability to form premade teams makes it a no-go for me - I might pop in there once in a while, but I'm probably done with the whole ToD arc at least for the time being. I hope Mod 5 (since this WAS NOT a mod5 - it was mod4.5) is about improvements to the Guild system (like Season 6 was for STO) instead of just another grind-o-matic campaign.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
■ most players lag way behind the recommended content in terms of character spec/gear
■ most players with enough spec/gear don't have much clue as to how to use it well
■ most players have been so much used to care-free, easy mode PvE that requires neither tight game management nor self-improvement/investment, that when you gather them up for a task which requires a cooperative effort, it becomes a DISASTER.
In short, my perception of the player base in NW -- based on the ToT experience -- is that when compared to contemporary MMOGs -- for example World of Warcraft -- the average player base is generally much lower in skill, understanding, preparation levels required for a mass-objective such as 25-man raids.
It's only natural. You don't need any skill for PvE. You don't need any real understanding, or any real preparation, or experience for that matter. Like many have adequately pointed out, NW PvE is generally just too easy. And when a group of people have been in such a nice, care-bear greenhouse environment for such a long time, the moment they are put in a situation where it requires them to pull their weight, it fails.
As a result, ToT groups generally have this massive number of clueless free loaders that hardly really contribute to the event. Stuff like how my group, numbering only 4~5 people, take down a Tiamat head ourselves alone within the 2 minute time frame, but then seeing more than 8~10 people on other heads barely even making a dent.. or things like how our small group manages to protect the cleric to "power up" within a minute or two, while seeing other groups with twice our numbers having their "cleric meter" still at only 50%... for like 5 minutes straight...
...it kind of makes you wonder.
In my case, in the most recent ToT the entire group took more than 8 minutes to finally see the first emergence of the 5 heads. Then it takes another 5~6 minutes to prepare the clerics again.. and then it seems usually the 2nd time we see the tiamat heads the event's about to be over.
When compared to other contemporary MMOGs and how they design their mass-events, ToT is actually pretty easy. It's not particularly deadly, nor does it require any precision timing, nor any superb tactics or party making. In WoW, for example, if you have even on ONE member out of those 25 that's not up to snuff and usually all 25 people will get wiped out. There's a reason why there are Guilds that specialize in Raid/Dungeon hard/epic modes in that game. It is a real challenge there, even if it is PvE.
In ToT -- all you need is enough DPS. And NW people can't even do that. That's what the general player base is like in NW. A horde of freeloaders.
Same in PvP. This actually shows where all the whines and complaints are coming from. Before ToT, there was no 'test' wihtin the game to show you the reality of how lacking one might be. The PvE mobs don't scorn or goad at you saying, "LoooL, it took 5 team wipes for you people to clear Garakas? You suck!". In the end, it doesn't give you any real ego issues. They're AIs, after all. On the contrary, PvP pits you against others and directly puts you in a competition where you are compared every time, and you realize the reality on where you stand EXACTLY. That hurts pride and egos. Those who can't take this never play PvP. Those who relish it play nothing BUT PvP.
But *bam*! Here we have ToT. And ToT shows many of us just how much we suck.
The moral of this story? At least, if you don't get to the first emergence of the 5 heads within 3~4 minutes, then in all likelihood, your group is just full of freeloaders.
Let's all try to do better. Get some gear please.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
But sure, keeping the teams intact when entering the instance would be nice.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
There is no reasonable coordination such that teams go out to each head.
Agreed, 100%
/Kain
There is no 'casual' or 'serious' in the end when it comes to PvP -- you can have the simplest rock-scissors-paper game and it turns into something more profound when higher understanding of it is reached. And in PvP, people are reminded of the reality of just how well they do every step of the way.
Not in PvE -- or at least, NW PvE. People were used to easy stuff for much too long. ToT simply shows that. Hopefully, the ToT experience might drive some spirit of challenge, or purpose to all them free loaders who thought they were 'doing well' in this game. Because it turns out, they weren't.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Now you get 11k gs randoms with one green artifact and it's neither up to you nor those selected few who know what to do.
My worst prediction is that Tiamat will be nerfed instead of allowing us to enter with our parties. Tiamat should be difficult and I enjoy it for what it is but some gearscore requirement wouldn't be too much to ask for. This or let us enter with our friends since guilds and parties are in this game for some reason.
We want to run content with our friends, laugh and have fun and we can't - why?
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
There is, it's "Say".
Fighting with dragons in WoD it's laggy. Tiamat is disaster, I was not able even to move, throughout the event I just stood helpless. Everyone who played got at least 1 Linu's Favor, i got zero.
I was unable to make the launch of the Tiamat fight and have to wait another half hour before I can see this mess for myself on live. About as much as I thought, from reading already on the forum, it's going to be failures for some time.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
/SAY is limited by distance. If My group is fighting the White head, I do not think I will see anything said near Green or Black.
WTB Class Reroll please