I think you are missing one very important point. NW is a game. Something that people supposedly do for fun.
One of the reasons for the current state of things and the current outrage (perhaps too strong a word) is that the Mod 5 additions to the game have gone over a line. With RP Items BoA, it become will become grindy and no fun. The reason that Botter flourished was demand. And the demand was caused by the huge requirements for Artifact leveling. With that going to be dried up, the is going to cross a line.
Exactly, making the game more grindy will eventually kill the fun. We should enjoy ourselves, not spend hours doing mindless clicking.
I cant help but feel like there are certain aspects that are being overlooked.
1) developers don't work for free.
2) you shouldn't be able to conquer the game instantly without paying for it.
In PvE it really doesn't matter what gear score you are at 60, there is a dungeon for your level. PvP is a problem, however.
I agree whole heartedly that the refinement points need to decrease dramatically, but lets be realistic, what will you do with your time when you have perfect enchants and legendary equipment? play the game? Could someone please define playing the game for me? It seems everybody is already currently doing this, and having the audacity to complain about it... people should stop treating the grind like its a bad thing. It takes me no more than an hour to complete my dailies. If it seems hard for some people they even have the option to join a party.
For example, the people complaining about refinement taking too long, might get refinement fixed only to complain that there is no longer suitably hard content available.
At the end of the day you are either grinding dungeon's or grinding dailies, otherwise you are hitting pvp which has abysmal party matching and is almost a grind in itself.
This game should not take you a month to complete, but it shouldn't take a year either. There needs to be compromise.
I completely understand your point of view and I agree, time needs to be valued, but it doesn't need to be scaled down to the point where you get everything you want in minimal amount of time.
They need new ways to make revenue, people who have perfect enchants no long buy coal wards for example. That's why im saying there needs to be a compromise
*edit: ive run eLoL about 50 times and have not been so lucky to receive a belt, but I have made around 1 mil ad from gear drops/dragon gems etc so im not entirely sure if you are really unlucky or merely speaking in extremes
I don't want instant gratification, I think the regular arties have it right.
They aren't too easy , and casual players will probably not ever have one, but serious f2pers can get them to orange in a decent amount of time. It is still enough that whales will buy stuff to upgrade them too.
the absurd amounts of money it would cost using Zen items
the fact that only a fool would EVER buy Blood Rubies for Zen (I never have in nine months of playing)
the difficulty of doing it by playing PvE content alone, without using the AH
the way the game has gone steadily downhill since Module 2 in terms of fun, content and Time/Reward ratio
the way that the Time/Reward ratio is just not there because of a stupid RNG-based system instead of a skill-based system (and sometimes I have played for 20+ hours per day; I usually play 6-10 hours and rarely take a break for more than 24 hours)
and I sincerely hope Cryptic take his comments on board and the designers can convince the Grey Suits who make the decisions.
Of course, as I have 12 level 60 characters, 4 of which are reasonably well-geared for PvP (2 DC and 2 TR), I also know that the Neverwinter CW in PvP is the single most broken, most Over-Powered, most Unbalanced, most Zero-Skill, Single-Button, Freeze-and-Immobilise-Until-Dead class I have ever come across in my 40 years of playing AD&D, whether pnp, floppy disk, CD, DVD or on-line. The CW does not even NEED Legendary gear. It embarrasses me that my 9k Halfling CW can freeze a 16k GWF until he is dead, at range, from a distance, while being out of melee range the whole time. But when my 15k DC is frozen solid until dead by a 9k CW enemy player, it is just massively irritating. Stun and Freeze should be removed from PvP, but that is for another thread.
As for supporting the game and the developers, I also bought The Knights of the Feywild from Steam (for similar reasons).
But I also bought the Dragonborn Legendary Pack during the Pre-Release (ahem...) Sale.
And I bought the Scourge Warlock's Booster Pack from Steam as well.
And I have also spent about €600 to €800 on Zen (I'll have to check). Most of that Zen has gone on Account-Wide Mounts, New Character slots, Greater Bags of Holding, Retraining Tokens, Shared and Personal Bank Slots etc and Enchanted Keys in a Sale. It is only recently that I ever traded any Zen for AD because 99 Peridots for 10k AD was too good to pass up. I also spent a fortune (like, maybe 2 or 3 million) on Adventurers when they were 75k or less, and Heros when they were 300k or less. I can probably get up to 200k AD per day on thirteen characters, just from Invocations and Professions with all of them and doing PvP Dailies with four of them. But I need MILLIONS of AD to upgrade my Ioun Stones, nevermind Artifacts and Artifact Gear as well.
But I agree that cheap AH items is NOT a problem for the player base, even if they ARE put there by Bots.
I also agree that I will never buy ANY refining gear from the Zen Market - I never have and I never will (except Preservation Wards when they are cheaper than the AH, and I did buy some Coalescent Wards in a Sale for my Armour and Weapon enchants).
Of course, I missed all the Beta Testing and Module 1 fun. I started in February with Module 2.
But I find that I am now in two minds about all this:
On the one hand, it may well do all the negative things the OP says.
However, the artifact weapons now made CN unprofitable. There is now NO REASONABLE WAY for good players to make AD in game. Hence many of us are doing lockbox flipping or AH flipping, and hence making AD by playing the economy. I don't like playing the economy, but since my income from playing is so terrible and pitiful I have no other choice if i want to make a reasonable about of AD to gear up.
So I went from making almost 1M AD/day in mod 1/2 to now I make 150k AD/Day - through refining RAD mostly. This is actually very slow, considering the cost it was raising items to legendary.
You got some point there. CN farm was basically killed.
But
1. the solution would be making new really "hard" dungeons with tactics and everything.
When CN was out only a few could make it for a year... Definitelly not random pugs and only the best guilds with good players could make a daily living their with coordination and TS and everything.
When T2s was out it was a challenge for 6-9 months.
When MC,VT was out only a few could make it for a 1-2 months.
When Kessel, Lol was out we could do it at first.
We are going through dungeons now like knife through butter.
People who loves to play dungeons need new profitable dungeons from which the income is competitive for selling comparing to those other activities.
2. Instead of leveling equipment(I mean whats next? artifact armor/gauntlet/ring...?) we need new BIS weaponry, armor, jewelry again to farm and sell. For example in some upgraded T2 style divided in 4 pieces to 4 new hard dungeons.
3. Dragonhoard enchantment still usable.
4. We all knew whose crying now the most...
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
edited November 2014
It seems that, just like with a bunch of other things, Cryptic has a problem with keeping things reasonable, when it comes to grinding for RP. I say, don't worry, I'm sure they'll fix the problem in, maybe, 2 or 3 modules from now
They could make BOA Resonance Stones abundant in the ToD campaign (from dailies) and its lairs (end boss/end chest), in lvl 60 dungeons/skirmishes and epic dungeons/skirmishes, in PvP if you have a reasonable performance, and they could go ahead with the proposed changes and no one would mind.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
The real devil in this mess with rp,botting, cost etc is the decision of cryptic to expand artifacts into gear.Simple as that.
BiS gear should be obtainable once like the good old days from a specially hard dungeon or even HE.
The model of aquiring elite BiS gear through campaign tasks and then need a fortune to refine ,it was a very bad decision.It would be mediocre if they would just stay in mainhand.But the model is all gear to be artifact.
This inevitably lead to too much grind,rp cost etc.
This is still a f2p game and people that come here should be marketing targeted to make: a lot of people make small boughts in reasonable time.
Cryptic directly or indirectly now forces people to make medium cost boughts often if they want to stay competitive.
Simply,this will not work .Too much competition.
RNG and rp cost of artifact equipment start to bear a weight to the backs of people willing to play and carry (metaphorically) this game.
NW combat system is excellent ,graphics are better than many MMOs.And the lore od DnD and Forgoten realms is there.For how much?.....
I agree with most of what OP said.But I can only laugh at a direction this discussion is going in.I am fairly sure most people think Artifacts design is terrible to begin with.Whole refineing process is basicly ridiculous.Starting with inability to put stacks in refine slots,through insane amount of clicking required to crash bugg related to refine process.While people who have alot of money dont have any of said problems,they just buy best refine stones and click far far less.
This whole "problem" is not problem at all its new direction Cryptic is taking,with new buisniss model.We all remember MC,VT weapons you could craft.I have 16 toons and 10 have MC,VT weapon sets,it was no problem to get you played the dungeon and in time you would get your set(that was rewarding).Starting with IWD they changed the direction tawards the RNG and time gates.Mod4 was continuation of that model,more time gates and even more RNG.While at a same time for people that play with credit crad game got progressivly better.They dont have to bugg with RNG,100,200 key np and lockboxes conviniently drop blue belts insted of green...
In that process they get some expensive stuff to so at the end they get even more rich then they were...
Most people dont seem to notice the main point of artifact weapons.people who play content,dungeons and so on can have purple version,at a same time credit card warrior who havent left PE since mod 4 can easily have legendary.This is the new design,you dont have to play much,you dont have to even move from PE but you have to pay if you want to have legendary.
The problem I have with this new design is only 1 I HATE IT!
I cant accept that someone can buy bis gear,for me that is ridiculous.Bis gear can be crafted,refined,droped,but only from hard high end dungeons and content.I saw some people started to talk about a fair price for artifact weapon,presonaly I find this silly.There is no "fair" price...
It needs to be a testament of player/guild/party skill and ability not some price you pay to get it lol.I would be perfectly happy with MC,VT crafting style.Also a model with tokens where after every 20-30 runs you can choose a piece you need(3 pieces).No refineing process would be needed and luck factor with RNG would only buy you time with said model...
Naturaly this is very bad for cash grabing tho so I have no illusion whay refine model was "best choice".
I saw alot of posts where people complain about bots,but truth is they actualy saved this poor excuse of a bis obtainment.cryptic naturaly reacted as they did in all similar cases,BTA,BOP and so on...
Finaly I dont belive they will change anything.Its a ftp game and they all follow same direction,for example in GW2(BTP)you can buy legendary weapon and you have bunch or recycled skins in cash shop...
So its buisniss model people have problem with and that will not change ever,its simple take a punch or leave ...
Hey Tigilo - sorry for your terrible RNG man! I'm really sorry about that!
Thanks for the support and for your opinion.
Look forward to playing with you.
This RNG is tragic. We made this dungon with hope: "meybe this will be better and i drop/get rewarded this time". All will be good if this was a 50times in this short dungon, but 900 is a bit too much.
In few days will be mod5, and i dont have hope will be better than now.
Only next gear arti to get and up to leg.
This system of game is not for all, only for particular players.
We need some changes. In my opinion hoards should had more %. Not 1/2/3% but 5/10/15%. If Cryptic want all arti gear soon - we cant spent all lve to upgrade this to legendary.
For me mod4 is tragic, all changes/news are in minus. We not slaves. If this situation not will improve for us i supose this will be end to me.
We have life, family, work, study ... we cant spent all days to improve a little our heros and his gear.
I love progres, build hero and upgrade him. But not for the pirce spending all free time to grinding/farming/ or doing dungon witch cant get rewarded.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
You got some point there. CN farm was basically killed.
But
1. the solution would be making new really "hard" dungeons with tactics and everything.
When CN was out only a few could make it for a year... Definitelly not random pugs and only the best guilds with good players could make a daily living their with coordination and TS and everything.
When T2s was out it was a challenge for 6-9 months.
When MC,VT was out only a few could make it for a 1-2 months.
When Kessel, Lol was out we could do it at first.
We are going through dungeons now like knife through butter.
People who loves to play dungeons need new profitable dungeons from which the income is competitive for selling comparing to those other activities.
2. Instead of leveling equipment(I mean whats next? artifact armor/gauntlet/ring...?) we need new BIS weaponry, armor, jewelry again to farm and sell. For example in some upgraded T2 style divided in 4 pieces to 4 new hard dungeons.
3. Dragonhoard enchantment still usable.
4. We all knew whose crying now the most...
Agree with your solution and advocating it at every chance i get.
How about they make new BoE gear that is actually good? An armor set that doesn't suck? That would be great.
Sure draconic is good for some classes but it is very easy to get yourself.
I agree with most of what OP said.But I can only laugh at a direction this discussion is going in.I am fairly sure most people think Artifacts design is terrible to begin with.Whole refineing process is basicly ridiculous.Starting with inability to put stacks in refine slots,through insane amount of clicking required to crash bugg related to refine process.While people who have alot of money dont have any of said problems,they just buy best refine stones and click far far less.
This whole "problem" is not problem at all its new direction Cryptic is taking,with new buisniss model.We all remember MC,VT weapons you could craft.I have 16 toons and 10 have MC,VT weapon sets,it was no problem to get you played the dungeon and in time you would get your set(that was rewarding).Starting with IWD they changed the direction tawards the RNG and time gates.Mod4 was continuation of that model,more time gates and even more RNG.While at a same time for people that play with credit crad game got progressivly better.They dont have to bugg with RNG,100,200 key np and lockboxes conviniently drop blue belts insted of green...
In that process they get some expensive stuff to so at the end they get even more rich then they were...
Most people dont seem to notice the main point of artifact weapons.people who play content,dungeons and so on can have purple version,at a same time credit card warrior who havent left PE since mod 4 can easily have legendary.This is the new design,you dont have to play much,you dont have to even move from PE but you have to pay if you want to have legendary.
The problem I have with this new design is only 1 I HATE IT!
I cant accept that someone can buy bis gear,for me that is ridiculous.Bis gear can be crafted,refined,droped,but only from hard high end dungeons and content.I saw some people started to talk about a fair price for artifact weapon,presonaly I find this silly.There is no "fair" price...
It needs to be a testament of player/guild/party skill and ability not some price you pay to get it lol.I would be perfectly happy with MC,VT crafting style.Also a model with tokens where after every 20-30 runs you can choose a piece you need(3 pieces).No refineing process would be needed and luck factor with RNG would only buy you time with said model...
Naturaly this is very bad for cash grabing tho so I have no illusion whay refine model was "best choice".
I saw alot of posts where people complain about bots,but truth is they actualy saved this poor excuse of a bis obtainment.cryptic naturaly reacted as they did in all similar cases,BTA,BOP and so on...
Finaly I dont belive they will change anything.Its a ftp game and they all follow same direction,for example in GW2(BTP)you can buy legendary weapon and you have bunch or recycled skins in cash shop...
So its buisniss model people have problem with and that will not change ever,its simple take a punch or leave ...
I really do understand your frustration.
I also hate the RNG gate. I think best items should be rewarded for skill. However, mod 3 and mod 4 do not have any truly difficult content. Maybe they thought it was difficult? It certainly isn't.
This RNG is tragic. We made this dungon with hope: "meybe this will be better and i drop/get rewarded this time". All will be good if this was a 50times in this short dungon, but 900 is a bit too much.
In few days will be mod5, and i dont have hope will be better than now.
Only next gear arti to get and up to leg.
This system of game is not for all, only for particular players.
We need some changes. In my opinion hoards should had more %. Not 1/2/3% but 5/10/15%. If Cryptic want all arti gear soon - we cant spent all lve to upgrade this to legendary.
For me mod4 is tragic, all changes/news are in minus. We not slaves. If this situation not will improve for us i supose this will be end to me.
We have life, family, work, study ... we cant spent all days to improve a little our heros and his gear.
I love progres, build hero and upgrade him. But not for the pirce spending all free time to grinding/farming/ or doing dungon witch cant get rewarded.
It is the kind of business model you describe which will kill this game. I hope they read this post and stop. These decisions are suicide.
It is the kind of business model you describe which will kill this game. I hope they read this post and stop. These decisions are suicide.
Why?
Farmers use only 3x1% hoard - this is enought to drop instanly after cooldown.
But normal players who play not farm this 3% is to samll. Than change this nothink change to farmer but to notmal player on plus. Than we can get faster our legendars gears.
But true problem is to in cooldown. To long for normal players. But not having a problme to farmers.
One way or other, somethink change is need !
And You have hope thay read this? Sometimes i think dont. But not a bugs topics
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
I too agree with Chem, and bregonn pretty much voiced my thoughts on this. Since mod 3, each consecutive mod has been more grindy/lower rng rewarded for players efforts/and more time-wasting time-sink. I have read countless forum pages where the consensus of mass players are disgusted with the tedious boredom of how the game has been developing since, especially with mod 4. Game was fun till mod 3. Players even had some spare time to hangout with friends and do off-campaign stuff. Dabble in pvp, tinker in foundry, windowshop in auction house or zen store, help friends or guildies gear up, role-play on the side, revisit an older dungeon or skirmish, even socialize in chat. Now it's become ALL work. Widdle your life away with this new mod/campaign. It's losing that new car smell. I can't stress enough in words how much 'boredom' effects players. If you were to 'fix' the grind effect and also solve the supossed 'bot' problem that cryptic seems to be infected with, then maybe the optional XP earned with artifact gear could kill two birds with one stone.
This + infinity.
There is very little fun left in the game but I still play it only because I have invested so much time into my toons. I don't have time to do fun things because of the grind involved to get what I want/need. I have played this game every day since February this year and I only have two toons. You would think that I at least have 1 legendary artifact - well you'd be wrong. I just don't have the resources available to reach legendary without completely bankrupting myself but I guess that's what Cryptic wants.
It's unbelievable how much RP it costs to level artifact equipment - way more than normal artifacts. The RP gained from epic gear is a complete and utter joke. I would rather salvage the gear and use the AD for RP but I don't do that either. Cryptic MUST consider rewarding us with RP in dungeons. I'm sure it will discourage bots somewhat as dungeons are more time-consuming to complete.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Oh come on mods. Here's a non "personal" attack. Stop editing people's opinions. "Well, you can start a feedback thread that argues the OP's feedback thread" (I can already hear it). Why? It's easier to argue the feedback in the OP's thread.
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
edited November 2014
Let's face it, a lot of us play because the game is tied to names like Neverwinter and D&D. If it were to go by another name and take place in another setting, for many of us this game would have gone unnoticed. I had my fun, I'm not gonna lie, but it looks like this game already gave us the best it had to offer.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
The game has been on a downward trend for a while. Next module is going to be something of a nosedive if the current one wasn't so wretched bad. They obviously could not care less about new players and seem intent on squeezing the old ones for as much as possible. If you've been around one sleazey mmo as it wind down you've been around them all.
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kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
edited November 2014
As things are now, I'm going for the no further money solution.
Solid points all around, however your effort goes to waste. This game is first and foremost a business. From the moment I picked it up till I logged off last night I've never felt it being anything more than a way to extract cash from people. Sure, it's combat system, animations, visuals are above fine. I'd say they are great. Whoever designed those should get a raise Cryptic, cause he/she is the reason we are still here. The lot of you veteran players who were here since day one and who managed to make millions of AD - dont think it was cause PWE cared for you. The millions came mostly from bugs, so much AD some folks still spent them even today. You were not supposed to make that much ingame cash, you were supposed to pay $. You understand what Im saying ?
That income you were used to was never meant to be. However Cryptic being Cryptic messed up some coding as usual and as a result some folks became the Rockefellers of Neverwinter. Ever since those days they've slowly taken away any and all forms of making ingame money bringing this product to its current state. Let me spell it out for you, a casual player is someone who has a job, hobbies outside of video games, a family, a busy life. A casual player has around 10-15 hours a week for his video game of choice and when he plays, he looks for enjoyment, relaxation not another job. Running 10 dungeons a day isnt something the above described person can manage, so making around 20K AD per day thru dailies and some salvage is about it. So, when he wants more he has to pay for it and that is OK. I'm OK with supporting a business which brings me fun. However Neverwinter's free to play model is vastly more expensive than a subscription based game if you want to be able to compete in PVP for example. Sure, Im a casual but when I engage in PVP I dont like being food for GS monsters. A new game + sub would be around 230 EUR for a whole year! There is a topic on this very forum currently asking people if 200 is OK for a legendary item! One legendarty item! You realize that a new guy who wants to PVP but has no time to grind can easily spent 1000 EUR to get his toon to 20K GS in a day.... and even that madness is OK if there was a way to get to that 20K GS with far less real money investment in lets say 3-4 months of serious, not casual play.. But you cant
Make no mistake, this whole game has been designed from the ground up to extort as much cash as possible from players. People who are really good at it, people who can make AD thru constant grind or thru smart AH play dont matter. PWE cares for people with wallets but even they dont get a real return as they are asked to spent more and more with every new mod. So, PWE actually only cares for wallets..
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
For me the most prominent issue is the bag space ...
I run already around with the dragonborn bag, 2 blue bags and the 2 standard bags. Never use the graveyard bag.
And I am full to the limit.
With enchants being BtA AND free (normal drops) I need double the space for refining stuff if I do not want to stop after every 2nd encounter to "refine". That is what bothers me most.
But this post will be swallowed by the many rants, so I expect to have a bag issue, next to a refinement issue.
*sigh*
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
I also hate the RNG gate. I think best items should be rewarded for skill. However, mod 3 and mod 4 do not have any truly difficult content. Maybe they thought it was difficult? It certainly isn't.
Watching the devs play on their livestreams or reading this may shed a little light on the problem.
I have run ELOL 15 times a day, every day, for almost a month now. I have gotten four belts, not the ones i wanted name you. That means i have looked at 700 chests. Hence the drop rate for a desired artifact belt is terrible. Farming it becomes impractical, unless you have tons of time.
Well, you at least had the stomach to grind all the quests in several different maps (every day!) just to unlock LoL. Run to every map, wait for the dragon to spawn, rinse and repeat 8x a day. Per character. For weeks. I just gave up on the whole module. I'm waiting for mod6 to resume actively playing (hoping it won't be as annoying as mod 4 and 4.1).
For me the most prominent issue is the bag space ...
I run already around with the dragonborn bag, 2 blue bags and the 2 standard bags. Never use the graveyard bag.
And I am full to the limit.
With enchants being BtA AND free (normal drops) I need double the space for refining stuff if I do not want to stop after every 2nd encounter to "refine". That is what bothers me most.
But this post will be swallowed by the many rants, so I expect to have a bag issue, next to a refinement issue.
*sigh*
The other day I also realised that I won't be able to use any fey blessing on top of my dragon hoard (which I use greaters on my main)
You lost me with the "I'm the most serious most active players in your community"... You aren't the only one. The game wouldn't survive with just 1 person. This game is about to lose MANY because of how much of a cash cow it's become.
So . . . after reading almost all of the pages, I don't think I saw one person discuss this:
Perhaps the goal is to phase out the experienced, well-geared players through attrition. Once those players are gone, the only ones left will be the less-hardcore, casual style gamers that really don't remember, or know, how it used to be. The remaining players will buy zen, transfer it to AD and buy stuff in the AH all while grinding the content to get RP drops.
The experienced players are probably not buying zen as much as before (if at all) and as such, are not a source of revenue. PvP seems to be slowing down so less Zen/AD there from the pro Pvp'ers, CN is not profitable anymore so most people are only running it to help guildies or for a break from the grind that is Mod 3/4.
I don't know what the fix SHOULD be, I only know what it SHOULD NOT be. Don't punish those of us that show up each and every day to play a game we love. We helped you build this game into something great. Give us an incentive to keep playing. There are many many many games out there. I have been putting off looking at new games (or existing ones) because I only have so much time each day to play. That may not always be the case.
NOTE: I have run the grind gamut each day and I have the 4th and 5th boon on my SW. While I didn't like it, I did it. Now, with Mod 5 coming up, I'll have to get a total of 400 sigils and secrets (each) to get the 6th (new book so 100 each) and 7th (all three books so 300 each). I'd rather be playing great content than grinding my way through the game each day.
Devs - please stop putting in "fixes" for the bots and exploiters that punish those of us that follow the rules. Just because a thing is difficult to do doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
NOTE: I have run the grind gamut each day and I have the 4th and 5th boon on my SW. While I didn't like it, I did it. Now, with Mod 5 coming up, I'll have to get a total of 400 sigils and secrets (each) to get the 6th (new book so 100 each) and 7th (all three books so 300 each). I'd rather be playing great content than grinding my way through the game each day.
I do not want to defend PWE on this, but I'd like to answer to you, and to many others who cry that this is breaking the game, the end of the world yada yada
I take it you are aware that you do not NEED the boons 6 & 7, neither do you NEED the boons 4 & 5.
Just because they are there does not mean they are totally necessary to enjoy the game. At least in a PvE environment you are perfectly fine to play without said boons. (or without a 5 legendary items worn).
(if a MOD wants to take out my PvP opinion go ahead, as usually PvP is subject to flame and might usually be seen as tolling, i.e. not your poit of view)
Now, for PvP, where this is supposed to be "game breaking" I read a lot from players who claim that they can not beat another one without all boons, 5 leg's, and R10s. Yet most PvP'ers claim to beat others naked with a wet towel.
So, if boons/legendaries/R10s are indeed so powerful that it makes no sense at all if a player without e.g. boons is queued against another player with boons
it should be easy to convince "development" (most like the product manager) that a player with boons must not be queued against a player without boons. This would be a de-facto grouping possibility for PvP.
Add in e.g. "has 1 or more legendary artifact of any type" and you have another tier.
PS: if you don't like playing the game it might be time to stop it. It still is a game!
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
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luxarkMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
I do not want to defend PWE on this, but I'd like to answer to you, and to many others who cry that this is breaking the game, the end of the world yada yada
I take it you are aware that you do not NEED the boons 6 & 7, neither do you NEED the boons 4 & 5.
Just because they are there does not mean they are totally necessary to enjoy the game. At least in a PvE environment you are perfectly fine to play without said boons. (or without a 5 legendary items worn).
For a lot of people something like this would feel like they are missing something. This is not a very pleasant feeling.
I understand your frustration as ways to make AD have almost completely disappeared from this game (and not coincidentally I think). With that said, there are many people who are using foundries to farm RP and sell it on the AH in order to make AD. I know players that have 20 stacks up of things they keep getting from foundries and making a fortune off it. I don't mind foundry grinding at all as long at the RP stuff gotten is used for your equipment only! Once its being done to put tons of stacks of RP on the AH... well its a little much and can affect the in-game economy in a negative way. I kind of understand why they are doing it and to be honest, this was something that has already been predicted was going to happen by several people not too long ago due to AH exploitation, so this isn't a shock.
However... this game needs to provide many more avenues of obtaining reasonable large amounts of RP from dungeon runs, pve and maybe even pvp. Right now, there is very little incentive for players NOT to be using 3rd party sites or other avenues for obtaining RP. The zen prices for RP are not even a consideration as they are astronomical and would require gamers to basically take out a second mortgage to afford RP through purchasing zen (a little of an exaggeration xD). Also when you don't allow players to make in-game currency at a reasonable rate by limiting AD refinement and creating so many sinks, players will look to other avenues to do so.
This BoA of RP from dragon hoards is in the end, utlimately PWE's fault and we are paying for it because of massive AD sinks, the lack of ways to make AD in this game (BoP items and irrelevant dungeons), and overpriced RP prices in the zen store.
The OP here is right. This is starting to get out of control and pretty soon, PWE won't have an economy to manage anymore. This is not the same issue as the BoA keys. Those keys didn't directly affect the standard of living in-game (i.e. equipment quality). This does.
Comments
Exactly, making the game more grindy will eventually kill the fun. We should enjoy ourselves, not spend hours doing mindless clicking.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
+1 /10 char
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Any personal attacks will be reported as per forum rules - not just against me but against anyone. Let's stay on topic and keep things constructive.
Thank you all for your feedback.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
I don't want instant gratification, I think the regular arties have it right.
They aren't too easy , and casual players will probably not ever have one, but serious f2pers can get them to orange in a decent amount of time. It is still enough that whales will buy stuff to upgrade them too.
and I sincerely hope Cryptic take his comments on board and the designers can convince the Grey Suits who make the decisions.
Of course, as I have 12 level 60 characters, 4 of which are reasonably well-geared for PvP (2 DC and 2 TR), I also know that the Neverwinter CW in PvP is the single most broken, most Over-Powered, most Unbalanced, most Zero-Skill, Single-Button, Freeze-and-Immobilise-Until-Dead class I have ever come across in my 40 years of playing AD&D, whether pnp, floppy disk, CD, DVD or on-line. The CW does not even NEED Legendary gear. It embarrasses me that my 9k Halfling CW can freeze a 16k GWF until he is dead, at range, from a distance, while being out of melee range the whole time. But when my 15k DC is frozen solid until dead by a 9k CW enemy player, it is just massively irritating. Stun and Freeze should be removed from PvP, but that is for another thread.
As for supporting the game and the developers, I also bought The Knights of the Feywild from Steam (for similar reasons).
But I also bought the Dragonborn Legendary Pack during the Pre-Release (ahem...) Sale.
And I bought the Scourge Warlock's Booster Pack from Steam as well.
And I have also spent about €600 to €800 on Zen (I'll have to check). Most of that Zen has gone on Account-Wide Mounts, New Character slots, Greater Bags of Holding, Retraining Tokens, Shared and Personal Bank Slots etc and Enchanted Keys in a Sale. It is only recently that I ever traded any Zen for AD because 99 Peridots for 10k AD was too good to pass up. I also spent a fortune (like, maybe 2 or 3 million) on Adventurers when they were 75k or less, and Heros when they were 300k or less. I can probably get up to 200k AD per day on thirteen characters, just from Invocations and Professions with all of them and doing PvP Dailies with four of them. But I need MILLIONS of AD to upgrade my Ioun Stones, nevermind Artifacts and Artifact Gear as well.
But I agree that cheap AH items is NOT a problem for the player base, even if they ARE put there by Bots.
I also agree that I will never buy ANY refining gear from the Zen Market - I never have and I never will (except Preservation Wards when they are cheaper than the AH, and I did buy some Coalescent Wards in a Sale for my Armour and Weapon enchants).
Of course, I missed all the Beta Testing and Module 1 fun. I started in February with Module 2.
But I find that I am now in two minds about all this:
On the one hand, it may well do all the negative things the OP says.
You got some point there. CN farm was basically killed.
But
1. the solution would be making new really "hard" dungeons with tactics and everything.
When CN was out only a few could make it for a year... Definitelly not random pugs and only the best guilds with good players could make a daily living their with coordination and TS and everything.
When T2s was out it was a challenge for 6-9 months.
When MC,VT was out only a few could make it for a 1-2 months.
When Kessel, Lol was out we could do it at first.
We are going through dungeons now like knife through butter.
People who loves to play dungeons need new profitable dungeons from which the income is competitive for selling comparing to those other activities.
2. Instead of leveling equipment(I mean whats next? artifact armor/gauntlet/ring...?) we need new BIS weaponry, armor, jewelry again to farm and sell. For example in some upgraded T2 style divided in 4 pieces to 4 new hard dungeons.
3. Dragonhoard enchantment still usable.
4. We all knew whose crying now the most...
They could make BOA Resonance Stones abundant in the ToD campaign (from dailies) and its lairs (end boss/end chest), in lvl 60 dungeons/skirmishes and epic dungeons/skirmishes, in PvP if you have a reasonable performance, and they could go ahead with the proposed changes and no one would mind.
BiS gear should be obtainable once like the good old days from a specially hard dungeon or even HE.
The model of aquiring elite BiS gear through campaign tasks and then need a fortune to refine ,it was a very bad decision.It would be mediocre if they would just stay in mainhand.But the model is all gear to be artifact.
This inevitably lead to too much grind,rp cost etc.
This is still a f2p game and people that come here should be marketing targeted to make: a lot of people make small boughts in reasonable time.
Cryptic directly or indirectly now forces people to make medium cost boughts often if they want to stay competitive.
Simply,this will not work .Too much competition.
RNG and rp cost of artifact equipment start to bear a weight to the backs of people willing to play and carry (metaphorically) this game.
NW combat system is excellent ,graphics are better than many MMOs.And the lore od DnD and Forgoten realms is there.For how much?.....
This whole "problem" is not problem at all its new direction Cryptic is taking,with new buisniss model.We all remember MC,VT weapons you could craft.I have 16 toons and 10 have MC,VT weapon sets,it was no problem to get you played the dungeon and in time you would get your set(that was rewarding).Starting with IWD they changed the direction tawards the RNG and time gates.Mod4 was continuation of that model,more time gates and even more RNG.While at a same time for people that play with credit crad game got progressivly better.They dont have to bugg with RNG,100,200 key np and lockboxes conviniently drop blue belts insted of green...
In that process they get some expensive stuff to so at the end they get even more rich then they were...
Most people dont seem to notice the main point of artifact weapons.people who play content,dungeons and so on can have purple version,at a same time credit card warrior who havent left PE since mod 4 can easily have legendary.This is the new design,you dont have to play much,you dont have to even move from PE but you have to pay if you want to have legendary.
The problem I have with this new design is only 1 I HATE IT!
I cant accept that someone can buy bis gear,for me that is ridiculous.Bis gear can be crafted,refined,droped,but only from hard high end dungeons and content.I saw some people started to talk about a fair price for artifact weapon,presonaly I find this silly.There is no "fair" price...
It needs to be a testament of player/guild/party skill and ability not some price you pay to get it lol.I would be perfectly happy with MC,VT crafting style.Also a model with tokens where after every 20-30 runs you can choose a piece you need(3 pieces).No refineing process would be needed and luck factor with RNG would only buy you time with said model...
Naturaly this is very bad for cash grabing tho so I have no illusion whay refine model was "best choice".
I saw alot of posts where people complain about bots,but truth is they actualy saved this poor excuse of a bis obtainment.cryptic naturaly reacted as they did in all similar cases,BTA,BOP and so on...
Finaly I dont belive they will change anything.Its a ftp game and they all follow same direction,for example in GW2(BTP)you can buy legendary weapon and you have bunch or recycled skins in cash shop...
So its buisniss model people have problem with and that will not change ever,its simple take a punch or leave ...
This RNG is tragic. We made this dungon with hope: "meybe this will be better and i drop/get rewarded this time". All will be good if this was a 50times in this short dungon, but 900 is a bit too much.
In few days will be mod5, and i dont have hope will be better than now.
Only next gear arti to get and up to leg.
This system of game is not for all, only for particular players.
We need some changes. In my opinion hoards should had more %. Not 1/2/3% but 5/10/15%. If Cryptic want all arti gear soon - we cant spent all lve to upgrade this to legendary.
For me mod4 is tragic, all changes/news are in minus. We not slaves. If this situation not will improve for us i supose this will be end to me.
We have life, family, work, study ... we cant spent all days to improve a little our heros and his gear.
I love progres, build hero and upgrade him. But not for the pirce spending all free time to grinding/farming/ or doing dungon witch cant get rewarded.
Agree with your solution and advocating it at every chance i get.
How about they make new BoE gear that is actually good? An armor set that doesn't suck? That would be great.
Sure draconic is good for some classes but it is very easy to get yourself.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
I really do understand your frustration.
I also hate the RNG gate. I think best items should be rewarded for skill. However, mod 3 and mod 4 do not have any truly difficult content. Maybe they thought it was difficult? It certainly isn't.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
It is the kind of business model you describe which will kill this game. I hope they read this post and stop. These decisions are suicide.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Why?
Farmers use only 3x1% hoard - this is enought to drop instanly after cooldown.
But normal players who play not farm this 3% is to samll. Than change this nothink change to farmer but to notmal player on plus. Than we can get faster our legendars gears.
But true problem is to in cooldown. To long for normal players. But not having a problme to farmers.
One way or other, somethink change is need !
And You have hope thay read this? Sometimes i think dont. But not a bugs topics
This + infinity.
There is very little fun left in the game but I still play it only because I have invested so much time into my toons. I don't have time to do fun things because of the grind involved to get what I want/need. I have played this game every day since February this year and I only have two toons. You would think that I at least have 1 legendary artifact - well you'd be wrong. I just don't have the resources available to reach legendary without completely bankrupting myself but I guess that's what Cryptic wants.
It's unbelievable how much RP it costs to level artifact equipment - way more than normal artifacts. The RP gained from epic gear is a complete and utter joke. I would rather salvage the gear and use the AD for RP but I don't do that either. Cryptic MUST consider rewarding us with RP in dungeons. I'm sure it will discourage bots somewhat as dungeons are more time-consuming to complete.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Would be great to find some sort of common ground and amend the change/situation to the benefit of the players!
Solid points all around, however your effort goes to waste. This game is first and foremost a business. From the moment I picked it up till I logged off last night I've never felt it being anything more than a way to extract cash from people. Sure, it's combat system, animations, visuals are above fine. I'd say they are great. Whoever designed those should get a raise Cryptic, cause he/she is the reason we are still here. The lot of you veteran players who were here since day one and who managed to make millions of AD - dont think it was cause PWE cared for you. The millions came mostly from bugs, so much AD some folks still spent them even today. You were not supposed to make that much ingame cash, you were supposed to pay $. You understand what Im saying ?
That income you were used to was never meant to be. However Cryptic being Cryptic messed up some coding as usual and as a result some folks became the Rockefellers of Neverwinter. Ever since those days they've slowly taken away any and all forms of making ingame money bringing this product to its current state. Let me spell it out for you, a casual player is someone who has a job, hobbies outside of video games, a family, a busy life. A casual player has around 10-15 hours a week for his video game of choice and when he plays, he looks for enjoyment, relaxation not another job. Running 10 dungeons a day isnt something the above described person can manage, so making around 20K AD per day thru dailies and some salvage is about it. So, when he wants more he has to pay for it and that is OK. I'm OK with supporting a business which brings me fun. However Neverwinter's free to play model is vastly more expensive than a subscription based game if you want to be able to compete in PVP for example. Sure, Im a casual but when I engage in PVP I dont like being food for GS monsters. A new game + sub would be around 230 EUR for a whole year! There is a topic on this very forum currently asking people if 200 is OK for a legendary item! One legendarty item! You realize that a new guy who wants to PVP but has no time to grind can easily spent 1000 EUR to get his toon to 20K GS in a day.... and even that madness is OK if there was a way to get to that 20K GS with far less real money investment in lets say 3-4 months of serious, not casual play.. But you cant
Make no mistake, this whole game has been designed from the ground up to extort as much cash as possible from players. People who are really good at it, people who can make AD thru constant grind or thru smart AH play dont matter. PWE cares for people with wallets but even they dont get a real return as they are asked to spent more and more with every new mod. So, PWE actually only cares for wallets..
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I run already around with the dragonborn bag, 2 blue bags and the 2 standard bags. Never use the graveyard bag.
And I am full to the limit.
With enchants being BtA AND free (normal drops) I need double the space for refining stuff if I do not want to stop after every 2nd encounter to "refine". That is what bothers me most.
But this post will be swallowed by the many rants, so I expect to have a bag issue, next to a refinement issue.
*sigh*
Watching the devs play on their livestreams or reading this may shed a little light on the problem.
Well, you at least had the stomach to grind all the quests in several different maps (every day!) just to unlock LoL. Run to every map, wait for the dragon to spawn, rinse and repeat 8x a day. Per character. For weeks. I just gave up on the whole module. I'm waiting for mod6 to resume actively playing (hoping it won't be as annoying as mod 4 and 4.1).
The other day I also realised that I won't be able to use any fey blessing on top of my dragon hoard (which I use greaters on my main)
Perhaps the goal is to phase out the experienced, well-geared players through attrition. Once those players are gone, the only ones left will be the less-hardcore, casual style gamers that really don't remember, or know, how it used to be. The remaining players will buy zen, transfer it to AD and buy stuff in the AH all while grinding the content to get RP drops.
The experienced players are probably not buying zen as much as before (if at all) and as such, are not a source of revenue. PvP seems to be slowing down so less Zen/AD there from the pro Pvp'ers, CN is not profitable anymore so most people are only running it to help guildies or for a break from the grind that is Mod 3/4.
I don't know what the fix SHOULD be, I only know what it SHOULD NOT be. Don't punish those of us that show up each and every day to play a game we love. We helped you build this game into something great. Give us an incentive to keep playing. There are many many many games out there. I have been putting off looking at new games (or existing ones) because I only have so much time each day to play. That may not always be the case.
NOTE: I have run the grind gamut each day and I have the 4th and 5th boon on my SW. While I didn't like it, I did it. Now, with Mod 5 coming up, I'll have to get a total of 400 sigils and secrets (each) to get the 6th (new book so 100 each) and 7th (all three books so 300 each). I'd rather be playing great content than grinding my way through the game each day.
Devs - please stop putting in "fixes" for the bots and exploiters that punish those of us that follow the rules. Just because a thing is difficult to do doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
I take it you are aware that you do not NEED the boons 6 & 7, neither do you NEED the boons 4 & 5.
Just because they are there does not mean they are totally necessary to enjoy the game. At least in a PvE environment you are perfectly fine to play without said boons. (or without a 5 legendary items worn).
(if a MOD wants to take out my PvP opinion go ahead, as usually PvP is subject to flame and might usually be seen as tolling, i.e. not your poit of view)
Now, for PvP, where this is supposed to be "game breaking" I read a lot from players who claim that they can not beat another one without all boons, 5 leg's, and R10s. Yet most PvP'ers claim to beat others naked with a wet towel.
So, if boons/legendaries/R10s are indeed so powerful that it makes no sense at all if
a player without e.g. boons is queued against another player with boons
it should be easy to convince "development" (most like the product manager) that a player with boons must not be queued against a player without boons. This would be a de-facto grouping possibility for PvP.
Add in e.g. "has 1 or more legendary artifact of any type" and you have another tier.
PS: if you don't like playing the game it might be time to stop it. It still is a game!
For a lot of people something like this would feel like they are missing something. This is not a very pleasant feeling.
However... this game needs to provide many more avenues of obtaining reasonable large amounts of RP from dungeon runs, pve and maybe even pvp. Right now, there is very little incentive for players NOT to be using 3rd party sites or other avenues for obtaining RP. The zen prices for RP are not even a consideration as they are astronomical and would require gamers to basically take out a second mortgage to afford RP through purchasing zen (a little of an exaggeration xD). Also when you don't allow players to make in-game currency at a reasonable rate by limiting AD refinement and creating so many sinks, players will look to other avenues to do so.
This BoA of RP from dragon hoards is in the end, utlimately PWE's fault and we are paying for it because of massive AD sinks, the lack of ways to make AD in this game (BoP items and irrelevant dungeons), and overpriced RP prices in the zen store.
The OP here is right. This is starting to get out of control and pretty soon, PWE won't have an economy to manage anymore. This is not the same issue as the BoA keys. Those keys didn't directly affect the standard of living in-game (i.e. equipment quality). This does.