Chem, I appreciate what you're pointing out. I really do, and you're right on most things. But don't play the money and ego cards. They'll only come back to haunt you in the end. Besides, just because you're a good theorycrafter and mage player doesn't automatically make you right in what you say, even though you are. So don't play that card.
Back OT:
I hadn't seen the BoA announcement before I read this thread. It's a double-edged sword here. Sure, it'll basically put the bots out of business, which I consider a good thing. We've all been depending on bots for far too long for my liking anyway. And nurmood makes a few good points. You should be working towards legendary, not buy your way to them. Getting legendary gear should be part of your end-game progression.
What's bothering me is what's going to happen to the droprate after this change is in effect. If the rates are returned to what they were in mod 1-2 I don't have that much of an objection to this idea. With drop rates like that farming is actually an option and it's up to the players to decide how much time they are willing to invest in it. Of course refinement stones should get an equal drop rate to enchantments to make them worth farming. So, if they bring a normal drop rate of both with this change and players don't have to depend on fey blessings and dragon hoard enchantments to farm for their artifact (gear) I'm good. I'm just slightly worried that the drop rates will remain as abysmal as they have been for the last year.
Of course, this change will further increase the gap between current elite PvPers and new players. But judging by the past, Cryptic doesn't seem to think that's much of an issue. Guess we'll have to see how that turns out.
Hey MN - you are probably right about my OP. I was very angry when writing it, so I might not have been using my best judgement.
Now outside of my NW life, i am starting a company that is a union of commercial strategy and technology. My business partner has 17 years strategy consulting experience and is a former professor at NYU Stern School of Business - which is why i feel i might have some judgement on the matter.
Now, the insight here is true. If RP was somewhat easier to get ourselves OR if the amount of RP required was reduced, then we wouldn't have a use for the botters.
Your downside is also true. It would make it more difficult for new players to catch up.
That said, really appreciate the comment. Some good thoughts here.
I think we can all agree on that. But what choice do they have if their intention is to make PvE as easy as possible?
I don't think they want to make PvE as easy as possible, quite honestly. And I think Taimat looks fairly difficult.
I think they want it to be accessible, so that a relatively new player can access the majority of the content relatively quickly. This way your new players and your hardcore players aren't intentionally separated (though GS elitism often takes care of that itself.)
Personally, I think there is tons of stuff for a new player to do. Four modules worth of dailies. ToD isn't that bad on one character (but torture on 7!). I really liked dread ring, honestly.
In addition there are lots of dungeons from launch. The T1 dungeons are well designed and enjoyable, the T2 dungeons offer great gear, and EDV offers good challenge, so plenty of things to do even at a relatively new stage.
That said, I would love to see some challenging, high-end, PvE content. Though that is for a different threat.
agree here, BoA dragon hoard enchantment will mean nada if we can get something from dungeons. Like in tiamat will drop a blood ruby or something (boa, bop, boe doesn't matter we get it by DOING CONTENT, preferably boe so we can sell it if need be)
I bought a belt about three weeks ago. (bought not received through play)
I am still refining it, even with many (i don't know how many but a lot) purchases of botted(?) peridots.
it bores me to tears to have to refine, i usually log out from boredom. My whole game time has become refining.
The news of this happening hit me yesterday as it did all of us and I really lost any motivation to play at all. Every single person in my guild who was on said they will sit on the fence and watch. it is Cryptics' choice which side of the fence they (and myself) will step down on.
At the time i was leveling my main hand from lv 58 to lv 60, the lesser resonance stones were very overpiced, so I was using peridots and minor resonance stones.
It took me HOURS of mindless clicking to level it the last two levels. I believe that's 9 stacks, or 900 prediots, or 540 clicks (at least), with a delay between them. In all honesty, my hand was sore the next day.
This is why i now only buy lesser resonance stones.
As you know I am also advocating for a better refining interface. Spending hours sifting items into your artifacts for one or two levels is NOT fun.
I also find mobs farm very very un fun as well..
I agree with you too - when i first heard it i lost motivation as well. Please note though, pandarius is reading this thread and will consider our opinions so if you have something constructive to say, please post and reply!
Playing AH is also bad because it's essentially all about players with lots of AD exploiting players that have either less AD, less market insight, or both. The bots actually act to reduce incentives for players to engage in such predatory behavior. They should focus on ways to reward players for playing the game as intended and expected, not give added incentives to unduly exploit other players.
I actually also agree. I'm playing the AH or lockboxes because i feel it's the only reasonable option to make AD at a decent rate. If I could make AD through content, i wouldn't put so much effort into playing in the economy.
Playing AH is difficult, requires a lot of discipline, activity, knowledge and market insight. Of course it is those who don't have them (majority of the player base) buying items they need to improve their character who lose in that system. Insightful comment.
Bingo. I actually love this game. The game play is awesome. The environments are cool, and I actually really think they did a great job with the D&D stories part.
But if they keep going down the road of a cheap iPhone grinder game, they're going to lose.
You guys are missing the point.
Bots are a problem, not a solution. If you have to rely on bots to get your gear, something is broken.
In a game without bots drop rates can be higher, RP cost can be lower, BoP can be relaxed.
But with bots, you cant do that. The AH will flooded with everything you need at cheap prices and all the players get BiS just for buying it all, and cheap.
We all suffer from the changes in the short term and it sucks, you got used to buy things at the AH house. But someone has to sell it for you. Who sells it for you? The guy who owns a bot army and uses them to farm 24/7. He'll get what yo need before you, no matter what the drop rates are. But if the drop rate is low, he'll make less money and that's discouraging for him. And discouraging him to the point he'll stop and move to another game is the long term goal.
+1 for the first part , but less drops will hurt players more than bots .
Binding rp drops to acount is good for the economy but will make the game implayable , since the majority of players can't get all that RP neded to upgrade all the new upcoming artefact gear .
we need a legit equal replacement to these bots ;
like they said above , make donjon bosses /chest drop valuable rp stones , and more everywhere ...etc (where bots can't bot ) .
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
As is pointed out by intelligent people already, NOBODY CARES. Paying customers will get their items, still. Teens don't pay, they exploit and act tough/cool about it and drive away potential new customers.
Besides, "I quit threads" camouflaged with mindnumbingly hypocritical, wall of texts are against the forum rules.
Phew...lot of armchair moderating, flaming, and other rule violations in this thread.
Okay, few points.
1. Threads or posts that allude to quitting are the same as posting that you quit. Refrain from posting such or your post is subject to moderation or removal as needed to bring your post into compliance.
2. Respect is not optional on this board--it is a requirement. While you may not agree with the point of a poster, it is never okay to disrespect that poster.
3. If you see a post violating RoC, use the reporting function--do not "armchair moderate". However, responding to a violating post is a violation in itself. Do not respond, THEN report, as to do so leaves you in potential violation of RoC yourself and possibly subject to action. Also, any post quoting a violating post will be removed, regardless of content, as quoting a violating post makes that post a violation as well. Report it and leave it to the moderation team to address.
Do not respond to or reply to this notice, but use the PM system to address any potential concerns.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
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Once again I will state 100% agreement with the OP.
This is very presumptive of my time and how much i would like to spend on a game.
It becomes work when you have to grind 100+ hours for one item.
I don't like bots. I'm glad you're trying to get them out of the game. I support the efforts to remove any sort of way they can profit from scripting programs, then mass selling and depressing the prices of everything.
That said, the presence of bots masked a more serious problem. When the bots are removed that problem will rear its ugly head. The amount of refining points needed to upgrade an item to Legendary is ludicrous. The acquisition of the materials and the subsequent interminable clicking is absolutely no fun at all. I have spent hours and hours killing monsters with my Dragon Hoard enchantments in an attempt to acquire refining points. Even doing so, without buying RP off the auction house I wouldn't have even made a dent in refining one item to Legendary status. At this point I've reached the conclusion that my time is likely better spent elsewhere. I'm not planning to quit, but I just can't believe I would spend so much time on a game for so little payoff. In the future I likely won't bother with any artifact equipment. Especially if I'll need to farm every bit of RP myself. You're dangling the carrot way, way too far out in front for me to feel any sort of incentive to go after it.
I'm not wanting to complain or whine. I'm happy with the Neverwinter product. And as I said, I want bots gone. So here are some possible ways to fix this problem that would still accomplish the goals of not ticking off the customer base while getting rid of RP bots:
1) Make RP from dragon hoard enchantments account bound but reduce the quantity of RP needed for Legendary items. Significantly so.
2) Make RP from dragon hoard enchantments account bound but increase the drop rate of black opals and sapphires significantly.
3) Bots can't run dungeons. So give out refining points at the end of dungeons. Figure out how many dungeon runs you think someone should have to undertake before they have invested enough time and effort into the game to deserved a Legendary item, then award RP at a rate so that they will be able to accomplish that. If that means one Sapphire in the end chest per run, maybe two? Or five? Then so be it. There's a sweet spot in there somewhere where the player will feel like their goal is difficult but achievable and will increase their playing time to go after it. Dangle the carrot too far out in front, and they'll stop playing all together.
4) Price zen store RP at a reasonable rate. Refining an item to Legendary status using the zen store would cost approximately (95 blood rubies = 63333 zen $633. The vast majority of your player base will laugh and walk away from this sticker price. If that is the only real alternative to buying from bots, then people will leave.
I'm not against making dragon hoard enchantment drops bound like so many others. But doing so must be accompanied by some other change in the game to make the refining process in some way reasonable. It currently is not.
I am one of the most serious, most active players in your community.
Thank you,
Chem.
I agree with you completely. And you have my vote for this lets say "petition" and respect for words you sad.
PS on 18th not only mod 5 comes out. And it is funny how some of my guildmates are switching to other cryptic game on same engine just cause it is way more better game design.
PPS bots did saved this game mod 4 artifact weapons and ets. They eased the problems you made with Random drops ets. I spent bunch of money on this game. Had my small share ~ 50$ budget on games. I m owner of "dragonborn sales pack" and suffered from that scheme. I have to trust in your sales, zen and so on anymore. Bots were the only thing that kept this grind game in frames of reasonable play. I do hate bots. yet they saved you mod 4. But your intention to kill players is way beyond any passions, bots and money reasons. This my personal IMHO. Others have their own head to use.
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
I would say that only 0.5% or 1% of the total population in the game visit the forum, even when enchanted keys became BoA and the Cwards too, now it's the same situation as usual, some people will complain, some people will stay, some people will leave and some people will join the game, it's always the same again and again... Once they took a decision, they never went back so instead of complaining, people have to start working in suggestions and forward them to Akro and/or Panderus.
If I am unable to buy a random stack of peridots every week or so, off the meager amount of AD i can actually make in this game with my limited time, then I dont think I could ever get to legendary..
I spent a Month building up all my Refinement, everything I possibly could, All the AD I saved up and created by liquidating items I had , went to generating more and more Refinement items for my Amazing Warlock!
Double Refinement Point weekend arrive and I so happened to Open the CHest and get the Artifact Mainhand that I wanted! with a Months worth of Playing nearly All day farming nonstop Boring Dailies, Foundries, Dungeons etc. and was only able to accompish rank 50 on my Artifact weapon, Legendary on my Lantern (thanks to a lucky crit when feeding another Arti to it) and rank 76 on my Waters and Sigil of the controller.
DO you know how crushing it is, to find out that allllllllll that farming, and CLicking, and Crashing from teh clicking, and Time spent, only got me like a quarter of the way in my artifact weapon =(
Now I wont even be able to do that... I still have to keep farming Dragon Dailies, still completing Sharandar because its stupidly boring but I wont be able to progress at all for many months
Without being able to Buy random Refinement items to put into my artifact on a weekly basis (Again cus i seem to be terribly unlucky with drops....) then it really seems impossible for me to obtain.. And then that means Dominations will be even more pointless for me, because NOT ONLY will i not have the New Artifact Offhand, and Neck, and Belt, but I WILL NOT HAVE ANY OF THEM LEGENDARY !
Original Poster.. You assume the goal of an MMO actually is to have a long sustained game, but the problem is they are being pulled by someone else to increase profits.. They don't care if they Increase Profits, Shut her down within 4 years, and open up a new shop..
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited November 2014
I personally know for a fact, that making things BOA will not make bots go away.
It does however hurt the entire player base and money flow to the company.
Guess we have to let them draw their own statistics on this matter ye? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtfCRaNg5EU
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
+1 for the first part , but less drops will hurt players more than bots .
Binding rp drops to acount is good for the economy but will make the game implayable , since the majority of players can't get all that RP neded to upgrade all the new upcoming artefact gear .
we need a legit equal replacement to these bots ;
like they said above , make donjon bosses /chest drop valuable rp stones , and more everywhere ...etc (where bots can't bot ) .
The situation will hurt player more, I agree.
But bots need to be removed from this game. In the current state bots have a very big impact on the economy, lowering prices on the AH is just a "good side effect". When you buy something from a bot, what do you think he does with the AD? He goes and opens a website called "www.cheap-ad-for-neverwinter-buy-buy-buy.com" and sells it for real money. Then he goes farther and sells the details of the poor slobs from buy AD from him, to the highest bidder. This is worse than you think.
We didn't have such a big bot problem at lunch when well all played CN over and over. Its a different situation now.
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
edited November 2014
Oh, I see some people is missing something, when the first artifacts arrived the refining points were very expensive like 250k each pack but a lot of people still managed to upgrade them to legendary, so it is not like there will be not more RP in the AH, it's just going to be more expensive so if you have the AD you will be able to buy some packs whenever you want, you can also save for the 2x RP weekend.
Oh, I see some people is missing something, when the first artifacts arrived the refining points were very expensive like 250k each pack buta lot of people still managed to upgrade them to legendary, so it is not like there will be not more RP in the AH, it's just going to be more expensive so if you have the AD you will be able to buy some packs whenever you want, you can also save for the 2x RP weekend.
they used cheap rank 4 and rank 5
rank 4 from fey blessing. now BoA
rank 5 from a console hack, now closed
this will crush your average players chance at getting a legendary without paying hundreds of dollars
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited November 2014
Abbandon has some great points, as usual. Thank you for your thoughtful post.
I would LOVE getting RP from running dungeons, and think this is (in principle) a good idea.
Gerbil and demein - thank you Appreciated.
Lazalia - heard great things about your build, and I know that not enough people come to the forums. We can't fix that, but this is the best voice we have. It seems many people who are not posting are also infuriated, but writing on the forums opens you up to a huge amount of attacks (as we have seen here).
Anamalist - Yes man, it sucks. I think players like you are hurt even more than players like me, simply because you don't have the capital to invest and flip, and persumably don't have the gear/experience to farm effectively. I assume players like you are their target market, and here you are and noticing that a) your efforts didn't add up to much at all and b) those efforts are going to be curtailed.
I don't mind you getting upset about it. I would be too! It's good to hear a voice of someone who doesn't have a legendary and who hasn't played forever as players like you are not well represented on the forums. Thank you very much for posting and voting.
So far:
14% - like the change
6% - too casual to care
26% - don't like the change
54% - don't like the change and are considering quitting.
If something angers 80% of your player base AND induces 50% of your playerbase to quit - it is obviously a poor business decision. This is blowing up your house to get rid of a termite infestation. Sure, there are no more termites present, but there is also no more house.
Oh, I see some people is missing something, when the first artifacts arrived the refining points were very expensive like 250k each pack buta lot of people still managed to upgrade them to legendary, so it is not like there will be not more RP in the AH, it's just going to be more expensive so if you have the AD you will be able to buy some packs whenever you want, you can also save for the 2x RP weekend.
Yes laz, this is undenyable. I was there in mod 2 when artifacts came in, and I got mine to legendary relatively quickly. (I also bought up serenes and tranquils in mod 1 and 1/3 or 1/4 their market price). I think it was costing me around 5M an artifact.
The difference between then and now is twofold. First of all:
The RP bought through the bazaar or Zen shop is at least 6AD/RP. When artifacts came around it was closer to 1-1.5AD/RP.
Secondly:
When artifacts came around, CN was still farmible and you could have a decent income. The introduction of artifact weapons have crashed prices so much that now your profit per run or AD/hr is quartered (optimistically).
so if the RP will cost four times more and you are making four times less, it will take sixteen times longer.
Granted, this doesn't include people with RP saved up, or with large sums of AD saved up. Those people will obviously be fine no matter what, however, they are an extreme minority.
I would say that only 0.5% or 1% of the total population in the game visit the forum, even when enchanted keys became BoA and the Cwards too, now it's the same situation as usual, some people will complain, some people will stay, some people will leave and some people will join the game, it's always the same again and again... Once they took a decision, they never went back so instead of complaining, people have to start working in suggestions and forward them to Akro and/or Panderus.
I wouldnt say nothing changes. There have been times Cryptic has backed down. When the new refinement system was being changed, it was planned to have a direct AD cost with it in addition to the need for catalysts. There was an loud outcry and Cryptic relented, removing the direct AD cost. Cryptic has responded to the community, if it is loud enough, and if there is another viable option. There are many examples of this.
The problem with this topic, is currently the main outcry is about this one issue, the binding of farmable RP. It can only be seen as a cry for continued botting. Its not a cry that will be, or can be, accepted by Cryptic. It why topics like these feel a little disingenuous. We all knew the bots made things overly easy, we all knew it could never last, so when it suddenly stops, like we all knew it had to, now we get rage?
We are debating the wrong thing, its not about drops, or bots, its about what it takes to get an item to legendary. There is a clear divide between what some players feel is a fair time/effort/expense measurement to get there, and what Cryptic wants. The source of the argument and debate needs to be firmly centered on that, and that alone.
Because, honestly, this whole "if you do this one change i'm quitting" mindset isn't going to much traction. Botting needs to be stopped, perhaps this change will fix that, perhaps it wont. But at no point can anyone firmly say, botting is good for the game and needed, and expect to be taken seriously.
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arbitrarityMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 96Arc User
edited November 2014
What we need to understand as players is that PWE wants to monetize this game like a mobile game with infinite grind. The problems with this are severalfold, because Neverwinter is not essentially like one of those mobile games. However additionally, the devs fail to recognize that reasonable rewards for playing are critical to an game's longevity. In fact, the most popular games in today's mobile market primarily reward players for PLAYING, rather than buying.
So, here is what I suggest. Grant RP at a 1-2 ratio (1-3?) with XP, split among all equipped artifacts and enchantments that can receive RP (that is, not ready for upgrade or rank 10) Add appropriate XP rewards for completing Foundries, dungeons and skirmishes (probably some 10k xp for a T1 skirmish, x2.5 for dungeons, x2 for T2), based on their difficulty. Leave existing RP mechanics in place (maaaybe increase the RP gain for purple items). Offer RP gain boosters in the store as a cheaper alternative to Blood Rubies. Bam. Turning in dailies is like a Flawless Sapphire, a couple CN runs is worth a Blood Ruby, albeit split up greatly. Suddenly the massive AD sink has become a massive incentive to just play the game. And if you price RP right, you can still draw a lot of money out of those who need Orange NAO, while not frustrating your playerbase. Oh, and it reduces the amount of clicking to refine stuff. Always good.
Also, this lets maxed out players refine enchantments and so on with their spare XP, giving them some incentive to do content that gets around the RAD limit.
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
jeffro9000Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 121Bounty Hunter
edited November 2014
1. I agree almost entirely with chem.
2. I like the idea of gaining rp from leveling. Also, putting refining stones in dungeon chests would give players a reason to do the content and it is unlikely that bots will complete an epic dungeon.
3. Making these changes not retroactive is actually increasing the cash flow of botters. Demand just skyrocketed, and guess who is sitting on all of the supply...
For the record, since the release of Mod 4, my SW is now solid at 16.5k GS (17.2k max but less effective) and am pretty capable in PvP with PvE being a complete joke for me. The idea of Farming however is limited to my time available as well as my sanity, while I have More than enough gear to do the farming, its the boredom I get from how easy it is to farm them....
I personally have farmed Shores EPic and Normal enough to go mad, ive got 4 or 5 of each drop from Epic LOL but not one belt/book has ever dropped in front of my eyes, and only 2 Guild members out of 70 actives had seen one in allllll that time
Come on Cryptic! Im on your Live Streams with you boy Akro messing the place up making it look easy, yah EASY until im up again the people who can actually somehow get these items and also level them up within a day!
Edit: Oh, im complete with DR, IWD and Tyranny Boons (Both books Farmed by Dailies and no drops/Purchase), almost done with 3rd sharandar (slow cus i hate it)
Bro! Gonna be another year before i see a legendary Weapon/Off/Belt/Neck outside of the test server
3. Making these changes not retroactive is actually increasing the cash flow of botters. Demand just skyrocketed, and guess who is sitting on all of the supply...
That comed to mind indeed. BUT you have to take into account that "hoarding" those stacks can be extremely dangerous - as botters ARE getting banned from time to time. That is one of the reasons stacks are still dirt cheap...
But at no point can anyone firmly say, botting is good for the game and needed, and expect to be taken seriously.
I can. Ideally I should say they're scum for profiteering from exploiting the game mechanics. Unfortunately I have more faith in them providing what we need than cryptic. What part of $550 per artifact on official prices made sense to them?
The fact that they even thought an AD cost for enchantment refining was a good idea which would have made it more costly just shows they have no clue and they continually make bad design decisions. Ie bound coal wards, blood rubies in a discount pack costing more than the bazaar price, the clunky refine interface etc etc. If they knew what they were doing we wouldn't have gone from challenging content when we had low gs, to trivial content.
You got a bot problem, neverwinter? You got known major AH/AD exploit problems? You have lack of content and too much grind? Then:
Reset game. Everyone back to level 1. (see above)
Refund all zen purchased with real money or refund all packs/etc. (obvious)
Give credit to hours played (somehow) in terms of AD or wealth - example : for every 1 day of game time recorded give 1 million RAD. (only seems fair)
Place all items BOA or BOP. Eliminate item transfer between characters. Adjust RP refinement costs downward by at least 33% and increase enchant drop rates. Reduce all zen prices by at least 25%. (to address bot problem, reduces pointless armies of alts praying, address unmanageable time needed to progress with artifacts and refine, and to encourage increased store purchases)
Reduce green drops, increase profession drops and enchant drops. Reduce blue drop rates (and buff blue items). Buff crafting items (too many suboptimal green items from leveling and playing the game - instead becomes vendor junk or just ignored, buffing crafting items gives crafters something to do)
Increase PVE content difficulty, all creatures have more HP and do more damage. Buff mini dungeons - bosses need more HP/damage. Introduce an extra random power (from a set table of powers such as self heal, teleport, knockback / whatever) to those mini-bosses. (I think these mini-dungeons should feel special instead you can just steamroll for example : Honor Reagh in a few secs). Increase XP requirements to level by at least 25%. (repackages the grind in levelign to stretch your time, I feel is better than completing all content and then repeating content or figuring out what to do or fliping stuff on AH)
Give rewards (aside for titles) for completing an item set or achievement (such as a chest similiar to post lv 60 advancement). - (just seems like a worthwhile carrot to collect these sets
Buff chest rewards to blue level items for pve leveling content. Rework all items, especially - making blue items more worthwhile leveling. Eliminate items that level with you such as the mulhorand gear. (sorry should be included in a section above)
Make PVE death penality harsher such as a 10% xp drop.
Continue with PVP balancing (but I'll defer suggestions).
Comments
Hey MN - you are probably right about my OP. I was very angry when writing it, so I might not have been using my best judgement.
Now outside of my NW life, i am starting a company that is a union of commercial strategy and technology. My business partner has 17 years strategy consulting experience and is a former professor at NYU Stern School of Business - which is why i feel i might have some judgement on the matter.
Now, the insight here is true. If RP was somewhat easier to get ourselves OR if the amount of RP required was reduced, then we wouldn't have a use for the botters.
Your downside is also true. It would make it more difficult for new players to catch up.
That said, really appreciate the comment. Some good thoughts here.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
I don't think they want to make PvE as easy as possible, quite honestly. And I think Taimat looks fairly difficult.
I think they want it to be accessible, so that a relatively new player can access the majority of the content relatively quickly. This way your new players and your hardcore players aren't intentionally separated (though GS elitism often takes care of that itself.)
Personally, I think there is tons of stuff for a new player to do. Four modules worth of dailies. ToD isn't that bad on one character (but torture on 7!). I really liked dread ring, honestly.
In addition there are lots of dungeons from launch. The T1 dungeons are well designed and enjoyable, the T2 dungeons offer great gear, and EDV offers good challenge, so plenty of things to do even at a relatively new stage.
That said, I would love to see some challenging, high-end, PvE content. Though that is for a different threat.
Forgive this off topic response,
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
+1!
/10 char!
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
At the time i was leveling my main hand from lv 58 to lv 60, the lesser resonance stones were very overpiced, so I was using peridots and minor resonance stones.
It took me HOURS of mindless clicking to level it the last two levels. I believe that's 9 stacks, or 900 prediots, or 540 clicks (at least), with a delay between them. In all honesty, my hand was sore the next day.
This is why i now only buy lesser resonance stones.
As you know I am also advocating for a better refining interface. Spending hours sifting items into your artifacts for one or two levels is NOT fun.
I also find mobs farm very very un fun as well..
I agree with you too - when i first heard it i lost motivation as well. Please note though, pandarius is reading this thread and will consider our opinions so if you have something constructive to say, please post and reply!
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
I actually also agree. I'm playing the AH or lockboxes because i feel it's the only reasonable option to make AD at a decent rate. If I could make AD through content, i wouldn't put so much effort into playing in the economy.
Playing AH is difficult, requires a lot of discipline, activity, knowledge and market insight. Of course it is those who don't have them (majority of the player base) buying items they need to improve their character who lose in that system. Insightful comment.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Agree completely zerg!
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
+1 for the first part , but less drops will hurt players more than bots .
Binding rp drops to acount is good for the economy but will make the game implayable , since the majority of players can't get all that RP neded to upgrade all the new upcoming artefact gear .
we need a legit equal replacement to these bots ;
like they said above , make donjon bosses /chest drop valuable rp stones , and more everywhere ...etc (where bots can't bot ) .
If nobody cares, no one would be posting.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Hey, I had that coming! LOL.
Thanks SM - always love your posts.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Phew...lot of armchair moderating, flaming, and other rule violations in this thread.
Okay, few points.
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This is very presumptive of my time and how much i would like to spend on a game.
It becomes work when you have to grind 100+ hours for one item.
I don't like bots. I'm glad you're trying to get them out of the game. I support the efforts to remove any sort of way they can profit from scripting programs, then mass selling and depressing the prices of everything.
That said, the presence of bots masked a more serious problem. When the bots are removed that problem will rear its ugly head. The amount of refining points needed to upgrade an item to Legendary is ludicrous. The acquisition of the materials and the subsequent interminable clicking is absolutely no fun at all. I have spent hours and hours killing monsters with my Dragon Hoard enchantments in an attempt to acquire refining points. Even doing so, without buying RP off the auction house I wouldn't have even made a dent in refining one item to Legendary status. At this point I've reached the conclusion that my time is likely better spent elsewhere. I'm not planning to quit, but I just can't believe I would spend so much time on a game for so little payoff. In the future I likely won't bother with any artifact equipment. Especially if I'll need to farm every bit of RP myself. You're dangling the carrot way, way too far out in front for me to feel any sort of incentive to go after it.
I'm not wanting to complain or whine. I'm happy with the Neverwinter product. And as I said, I want bots gone. So here are some possible ways to fix this problem that would still accomplish the goals of not ticking off the customer base while getting rid of RP bots:
1) Make RP from dragon hoard enchantments account bound but reduce the quantity of RP needed for Legendary items. Significantly so.
2) Make RP from dragon hoard enchantments account bound but increase the drop rate of black opals and sapphires significantly.
3) Bots can't run dungeons. So give out refining points at the end of dungeons. Figure out how many dungeon runs you think someone should have to undertake before they have invested enough time and effort into the game to deserved a Legendary item, then award RP at a rate so that they will be able to accomplish that. If that means one Sapphire in the end chest per run, maybe two? Or five? Then so be it. There's a sweet spot in there somewhere where the player will feel like their goal is difficult but achievable and will increase their playing time to go after it. Dangle the carrot too far out in front, and they'll stop playing all together.
4) Price zen store RP at a reasonable rate. Refining an item to Legendary status using the zen store would cost approximately (95 blood rubies = 63333 zen
I'm not against making dragon hoard enchantment drops bound like so many others. But doing so must be accompanied by some other change in the game to make the refining process in some way reasonable. It currently is not.
I agree with you completely. And you have my vote for this lets say "petition" and respect for words you sad.
PS on 18th not only mod 5 comes out. And it is funny how some of my guildmates are switching to other cryptic game on same engine just cause it is way more better game design.
PPS bots did saved this game mod 4 artifact weapons and ets. They eased the problems you made with Random drops ets. I spent bunch of money on this game. Had my small share ~ 50$ budget on games. I m owner of "dragonborn sales pack" and suffered from that scheme. I have to trust in your sales, zen and so on anymore. Bots were the only thing that kept this grind game in frames of reasonable play. I do hate bots. yet they saved you mod 4. But your intention to kill players is way beyond any passions, bots and money reasons. This my personal IMHO. Others have their own head to use.
I would say that only 0.5% or 1% of the total population in the game visit the forum, even when enchanted keys became BoA and the Cwards too, now it's the same situation as usual, some people will complain, some people will stay, some people will leave and some people will join the game, it's always the same again and again... Once they took a decision, they never went back so instead of complaining, people have to start working in suggestions and forward them to Akro and/or Panderus.
If I am unable to buy a random stack of peridots every week or so, off the meager amount of AD i can actually make in this game with my limited time, then I dont think I could ever get to legendary..
I spent a Month building up all my Refinement, everything I possibly could, All the AD I saved up and created by liquidating items I had , went to generating more and more Refinement items for my Amazing Warlock!
Double Refinement Point weekend arrive and I so happened to Open the CHest and get the Artifact Mainhand that I wanted! with a Months worth of Playing nearly All day farming nonstop Boring Dailies, Foundries, Dungeons etc. and was only able to accompish rank 50 on my Artifact weapon, Legendary on my Lantern (thanks to a lucky crit when feeding another Arti to it) and rank 76 on my Waters and Sigil of the controller.
DO you know how crushing it is, to find out that allllllllll that farming, and CLicking, and Crashing from teh clicking, and Time spent, only got me like a quarter of the way in my artifact weapon =(
Now I wont even be able to do that... I still have to keep farming Dragon Dailies, still completing Sharandar because its stupidly boring but I wont be able to progress at all for many months
Without being able to Buy random Refinement items to put into my artifact on a weekly basis (Again cus i seem to be terribly unlucky with drops....) then it really seems impossible for me to obtain.. And then that means Dominations will be even more pointless for me, because NOT ONLY will i not have the New Artifact Offhand, and Neck, and Belt, but I WILL NOT HAVE ANY OF THEM LEGENDARY !
Original Poster.. You assume the goal of an MMO actually is to have a long sustained game, but the problem is they are being pulled by someone else to increase profits.. They don't care if they Increase Profits, Shut her down within 4 years, and open up a new shop..
It does however hurt the entire player base and money flow to the company.
Guess we have to let them draw their own statistics on this matter ye?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtfCRaNg5EU
The situation will hurt player more, I agree.
But bots need to be removed from this game. In the current state bots have a very big impact on the economy, lowering prices on the AH is just a "good side effect". When you buy something from a bot, what do you think he does with the AD? He goes and opens a website called "www.cheap-ad-for-neverwinter-buy-buy-buy.com" and sells it for real money. Then he goes farther and sells the details of the poor slobs from buy AD from him, to the highest bidder. This is worse than you think.
We didn't have such a big bot problem at lunch when well all played CN over and over. Its a different situation now.
they used cheap rank 4 and rank 5
rank 4 from fey blessing. now BoA
rank 5 from a console hack, now closed
this will crush your average players chance at getting a legendary without paying hundreds of dollars
I would LOVE getting RP from running dungeons, and think this is (in principle) a good idea.
Gerbil and demein - thank you
Lazalia - heard great things about your build, and I know that not enough people come to the forums. We can't fix that, but this is the best voice we have. It seems many people who are not posting are also infuriated, but writing on the forums opens you up to a huge amount of attacks (as we have seen here).
Anamalist - Yes man, it sucks. I think players like you are hurt even more than players like me, simply because you don't have the capital to invest and flip, and persumably don't have the gear/experience to farm effectively. I assume players like you are their target market, and here you are and noticing that a) your efforts didn't add up to much at all and b) those efforts are going to be curtailed.
I don't mind you getting upset about it. I would be too! It's good to hear a voice of someone who doesn't have a legendary and who hasn't played forever as players like you are not well represented on the forums. Thank you very much for posting and voting.
So far:
14% - like the change
6% - too casual to care
26% - don't like the change
54% - don't like the change and are considering quitting.
If something angers 80% of your player base AND induces 50% of your playerbase to quit - it is obviously a poor business decision. This is blowing up your house to get rid of a termite infestation. Sure, there are no more termites present, but there is also no more house.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
yeah like if it is every week-end , do they pay you ?
Yes laz, this is undenyable. I was there in mod 2 when artifacts came in, and I got mine to legendary relatively quickly. (I also bought up serenes and tranquils in mod 1 and 1/3 or 1/4 their market price). I think it was costing me around 5M an artifact.
The difference between then and now is twofold. First of all:
The RP bought through the bazaar or Zen shop is at least 6AD/RP. When artifacts came around it was closer to 1-1.5AD/RP.
Secondly:
When artifacts came around, CN was still farmible and you could have a decent income. The introduction of artifact weapons have crashed prices so much that now your profit per run or AD/hr is quartered (optimistically).
so if the RP will cost four times more and you are making four times less, it will take sixteen times longer.
Granted, this doesn't include people with RP saved up, or with large sums of AD saved up. Those people will obviously be fine no matter what, however, they are an extreme minority.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
I wouldnt say nothing changes. There have been times Cryptic has backed down. When the new refinement system was being changed, it was planned to have a direct AD cost with it in addition to the need for catalysts. There was an loud outcry and Cryptic relented, removing the direct AD cost. Cryptic has responded to the community, if it is loud enough, and if there is another viable option. There are many examples of this.
The problem with this topic, is currently the main outcry is about this one issue, the binding of farmable RP. It can only be seen as a cry for continued botting. Its not a cry that will be, or can be, accepted by Cryptic. It why topics like these feel a little disingenuous. We all knew the bots made things overly easy, we all knew it could never last, so when it suddenly stops, like we all knew it had to, now we get rage?
We are debating the wrong thing, its not about drops, or bots, its about what it takes to get an item to legendary. There is a clear divide between what some players feel is a fair time/effort/expense measurement to get there, and what Cryptic wants. The source of the argument and debate needs to be firmly centered on that, and that alone.
Because, honestly, this whole "if you do this one change i'm quitting" mindset isn't going to much traction. Botting needs to be stopped, perhaps this change will fix that, perhaps it wont. But at no point can anyone firmly say, botting is good for the game and needed, and expect to be taken seriously.
So, here is what I suggest. Grant RP at a 1-2 ratio (1-3?) with XP, split among all equipped artifacts and enchantments that can receive RP (that is, not ready for upgrade or rank 10) Add appropriate XP rewards for completing Foundries, dungeons and skirmishes (probably some 10k xp for a T1 skirmish, x2.5 for dungeons, x2 for T2), based on their difficulty. Leave existing RP mechanics in place (maaaybe increase the RP gain for purple items). Offer RP gain boosters in the store as a cheaper alternative to Blood Rubies. Bam. Turning in dailies is like a Flawless Sapphire, a couple CN runs is worth a Blood Ruby, albeit split up greatly. Suddenly the massive AD sink has become a massive incentive to just play the game. And if you price RP right, you can still draw a lot of money out of those who need Orange NAO, while not frustrating your playerbase. Oh, and it reduces the amount of clicking to refine stuff. Always good.
Also, this lets maxed out players refine enchantments and so on with their spare XP, giving them some incentive to do content that gets around the RAD limit.
There will be another one soon, some people said in the beginning of December and most players should have the artifact items by then.
2. I like the idea of gaining rp from leveling. Also, putting refining stones in dungeon chests would give players a reason to do the content and it is unlikely that bots will complete an epic dungeon.
3. Making these changes not retroactive is actually increasing the cash flow of botters. Demand just skyrocketed, and guess who is sitting on all of the supply...
Jeffrina Jones, GWF
Jeffrodo, CW
Jeffrogue, Rog
Jelfro, GF
Jeffrogolas Do'Urden, HR
Jeffrodo Jaggins, SW
I personally have farmed Shores EPic and Normal enough to go mad, ive got 4 or 5 of each drop from Epic LOL but not one belt/book has ever dropped in front of my eyes, and only 2 Guild members out of 70 actives had seen one in allllll that time
Come on Cryptic! Im on your Live Streams with you boy Akro messing the place up making it look easy, yah EASY until im up again the people who can actually somehow get these items and also level them up within a day!
Edit: Oh, im complete with DR, IWD and Tyranny Boons (Both books Farmed by Dailies and no drops/Purchase), almost done with 3rd sharandar (slow cus i hate it)
Bro! Gonna be another year before i see a legendary Weapon/Off/Belt/Neck outside of the test server
That comed to mind indeed. BUT you have to take into account that "hoarding" those stacks can be extremely dangerous - as botters ARE getting banned from time to time. That is one of the reasons stacks are still dirt cheap...
I can. Ideally I should say they're scum for profiteering from exploiting the game mechanics. Unfortunately I have more faith in them providing what we need than cryptic. What part of $550 per artifact on official prices made sense to them?
The fact that they even thought an AD cost for enchantment refining was a good idea which would have made it more costly just shows they have no clue and they continually make bad design decisions. Ie bound coal wards, blood rubies in a discount pack costing more than the bazaar price, the clunky refine interface etc etc. If they knew what they were doing we wouldn't have gone from challenging content when we had low gs, to trivial content.
Reset game. Everyone back to level 1. (see above)
Refund all zen purchased with real money or refund all packs/etc. (obvious)
Give credit to hours played (somehow) in terms of AD or wealth - example : for every 1 day of game time recorded give 1 million RAD. (only seems fair)
Place all items BOA or BOP. Eliminate item transfer between characters. Adjust RP refinement costs downward by at least 33% and increase enchant drop rates. Reduce all zen prices by at least 25%. (to address bot problem, reduces pointless armies of alts praying, address unmanageable time needed to progress with artifacts and refine, and to encourage increased store purchases)
Reduce green drops, increase profession drops and enchant drops. Reduce blue drop rates (and buff blue items). Buff crafting items (too many suboptimal green items from leveling and playing the game - instead becomes vendor junk or just ignored, buffing crafting items gives crafters something to do)
Increase PVE content difficulty, all creatures have more HP and do more damage. Buff mini dungeons - bosses need more HP/damage. Introduce an extra random power (from a set table of powers such as self heal, teleport, knockback / whatever) to those mini-bosses. (I think these mini-dungeons should feel special instead you can just steamroll for example : Honor Reagh in a few secs). Increase XP requirements to level by at least 25%. (repackages the grind in levelign to stretch your time, I feel is better than completing all content and then repeating content or figuring out what to do or fliping stuff on AH)
Give rewards (aside for titles) for completing an item set or achievement (such as a chest similiar to post lv 60 advancement). - (just seems like a worthwhile carrot to collect these sets
Buff chest rewards to blue level items for pve leveling content. Rework all items, especially - making blue items more worthwhile leveling. Eliminate items that level with you such as the mulhorand gear. (sorry should be included in a section above)
Make PVE death penality harsher such as a 10% xp drop.
Continue with PVP balancing (but I'll defer suggestions).