Way back in the day I think there was a pandapaul build with reaping strike and bronzewood maybe? I forget. But yeah that's been a joke at will for some time.
Don't kid yourself, it will always be useless. It has such a long charge time that you'll end up being CC'd if you try using it in a DD to build determination. You're better off just sprinting into AoEs, sadly, or using roar/daring shout...
iam not sure considering my last post... but, yes, is not infallible like you know... perhaps gwf will still need other changes. punishing charge/steadfast still there, wait for crazy ideas hahahahaha (tera is good inspiration if you dont understand what is happening).
"Just saying: i want to see any of you using Reaping on VT or eLoL..."
the actual reaping strike is not a number one choice in any scenario.
"surely, most of you will use it as a "resudial encounter""
the "berserk idea", yes. the actual rp is just a aesthetic choice (but for now my aesthetic choice is leave the game... have a giant sword but see one... nevermind).
ps: look in youtube for TERA Berserker PvE Nightforge - LoT (Labrynth of Terror) solo run
0:59/1:03... the idea is that, but... well... time of our reaping strike but, proportional "with the damage of the single target reaping strike"(3:44). in our case, crescendo.
Takedown: make takedown prone for 1 second and or make it a 30' charge
Frontline surge: reduce cooldown by 40% and or buff damage by 50-100%
IBS/Flourish: reduce cast time like you did it with CW spells
Sure strike /wicked strike: buff damage by 30+%
Sentinel feats:
Intimidation: scale this feat down to 25-30% power.
Instigator feats:
Allied opportunity: make this feat mark instead of giving combat advantage, increase uptime by 3-5 seconds
Nimble runner/Crippling Strike: rework those feats to something useful.
Reaping Strike can be made usable if:
1- immunity to cc during activation
2- building AP instead of determination (as this should have been). Reason why it should build ap is cause it needs a daily like slam to be used with in pve, but due that 5 sec immunity after a daily it will never happen. I would even use it pvp also with a high burst instigator/destroyer permarunner when i;m using unstoppable to recover stamina.
My god, I increased the damage of destroyers in 2x and people still complaining .... hahaha
lacks a bit of practice to understand that the proposed to rp would be easy to use, but I have a definite solution for pve (meh for pvp).
If you use the sprint AFTER completing the charge (you can charge in 1 sec at the end of unstoppable) the gwf walk "normally" but with the sprint bonus (even the animation was destroyed, would not have aesthetic difference, just in a sword and a normal speed even though, in theory, be "sprint"). this would leave the reaping strike 100% usable in pve and some p2w genius could make an omelet in pvp.
Thank you all for your continued feedback! huehuehuehuehue,,,
ps: just to remember, that rp idea is a casual buff for a especific situation of pve (my interest area). That is the problem. If you try solve al problems to the class by a single power, you will cause a big imbalance. for me, if possible, a solution for pve should be zero use for pvp and vice versa, and in this logic I include ALL classes. is really, really possible to make an omelet with powers of little use.
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Suggestion:
CW's Stormfury must have 5-10 sec CD. Without CD Stormfury very OP Class Feature.
I have a better idea. CWs' HP should be capped at 30k HP, DR at 5% ,weapon dmg capped at 100 dmg .Oh, and when flagged for PvP,CWs should get rooted for 20 seconds and be unable to cast ,because "hey ! they can freeze me for 1 second ! "
A power that activates when we drop to 50% and the number you came up with, for a cooldown , is 10 seconds ? Does it take 10 seconds for you to drop an equally geared CW to 50% hp ? or will it take 10 seconds for you to get him from 50% to 0 ? Like what class are you playing? A neverwinter commoner for crying out loud ?
If Storm Fury doesnt have a 1 second ICD (i was under the impression that it does ) , it should . Other than that there is nothing wrong with it . 10 seconds would mean that it would hit a random target just once,and then we would most likely be dead before the next proc. Does that seem fair ? Would Storm Fury be any attractive to slot it then ?
Seriously , people here are saying that CW is a controller class, but you guys complained enough (sorry... CRIED ENOUGH) and got our extra control passive nerfed to uselessness . Then, you complained about DOT passive dmg , which got storm spell nerfed ( I can agree to this , Im with all those CWs that ask for a Shard buff instead - after all ,its only CWs and GWFs that dont even have 1 prone -and ofc, thats a byproduct of forum criers) .So , contradicting what the community says regarding CW role , you wanted to strip us of our control, strip us of our 1 defensive dmg tool , force us to use shield on tab , not give us a bit more Dmg Reduction and all that in the name of something that only you would ever call "balance" . Basically , what you want is to kill CWs with minimal effort .
Has any of you taken just 1 moment to think that TRs can control us for far longer periods than CWs get to control TRs ? (entangle lasts less than 1 second...) . GFs aswell . Even GWFs' stun durations seem to be longer than "controls" by a controller class.
Ok ,we get it . You lost a 1vs1 to a CW . THAT SHOULD HAPPEN TOO. There is 0 reason for you to come here and ask for nerfs cuz of that.(Specially when your suggestion is so ... <CMs would remove what I should type here>...and biased)
STOP POSTING FEEDBACK if your goal is to destroy CLASSES . (your were halfway done with the CW eitherway ... its like 1-2 powers and feats that make us competitive . Take those away and then you will all have to open a new thread : "Why do people jump to the FotM class?" . 1st reply will be mine . " CUZ U COMPAINED ENOUGH TO DESTROY THEIR CLASSES ,GENIOUS."
( TO THE CM : if u decide that im too aggressive , please change/remove/correct the corresponding part.But my points are all valid ,so please do not remove the post if you are going to let all that biased feedback in here . )
I have a better idea. CWs' HP should be capped at 30k HP, DR at 5% ,weapon dmg capped at 100 dmg .Oh, and when flagged for PvP,CWs should get rooted for 20 seconds and be unable to cast ,because "hey ! they can freeze me for 1 second ! "
A power that activates when we drop to 50% and the number you came up with, for a cooldown , is 10 seconds ? Does it take 10 seconds for you to drop an equally geared CW to 50% hp ? or will it take 10 seconds for you to get him from 50% to 0 ? Like what class are you playing? A neverwinter commoner for crying out loud ?
If Storm Fury doesnt have a 1 second ICD (i was under the impression that it does ) , it should . Other than that there is nothing wrong with it . 10 seconds would mean that it would hit a random target just once,and then we would most likely be dead before the next proc. Does that seem fair ? Would Storm Fury be any attractive to slot it then ?
Seriously , people here are saying that CW is a controller class, but you guys complained enough (sorry... CRIED ENOUGH) and got our extra control passive nerfed to uselessness . Then, you complained about DOT passive dmg , which got storm spell nerfed ( I can agree to this , Im with all those CWs that ask for a Shard buff instead - after all ,its only CWs and GWFs that dont even have 1 prone -and ofc, thats a byproduct of forum criers) .So , contradicting what the community says regarding CW role , you wanted to strip us of our control, strip us of our 1 defensive dmg tool , force us to use shield on tab , not give us a bit more Dmg Reduction and all that in the name of something that only you would ever call "balance" . Basically , what you want is to kill CWs with minimal effort .
Has any of you taken just 1 moment to think that TRs can control us for far longer periods than CWs get to control TRs ? (entangle lasts less than 1 second...) . GFs aswell . Even GWFs' stun durations seem to be longer than "controls" by a controller class.
Ok ,we get it . You lost a 1vs1 to a CW . THAT SHOULD HAPPEN TOO. There is 0 reason for you to come here and ask for nerfs cuz of that.(Specially when your suggestion is that ... <CMs would remove what I should type here>...and biased)
STOP POSTING FEEDBACK if your goal is to destroy CLASSES . (your were halfway done with the CW eitherway ... its like 1-2 powers and feats that make us competitive . Take those away and then you will all have to open a new thread : "Why do people jump to the FotM class?" . 1st reply will be mine . " CUZ U CRIED ENOUGH TO DESTROY THEIR CLASSES ,GENIOUS."
I agree to most of this. The storm fury is good the way it is until they decide to move our damage back to our encounters. It does not make our class OP in any way. You might be able to argue that one single class feature should not be this good, but in that case that means our other stuff that we have is not good enough because the end result of the fights shows everyone that we are not OP. But at this point I think every single class have a few apsects that works way to good.
And I also feel like the Control Wizard sometimes have even less control than other classes like TR/GWF/GF and that feels wrong somehow.
And I also feel like the Control Wizard sometimes have even less control than other classes like TR/GWF/GF and that feels wrong somehow.
Actually without the current Orb of Imposition, FS, Takedown, Break the Spirit, Dazing Strike, Disruptive Shot and even the book of the dead last longer than Entangling Force and Chill Strike together on players.
Besides Shield and Teleport, our feats and class features are doing EVERYTHING for our class to stand still.
"Even with the buffs, the GWF underperforms compared to the SW."
maybe. but i just want to have strong (but fair) tool witch the fun gameplay and a cool aesthetic. if is not enough, there are other areas to explore in class.
"Even with the buffs, the GWF underperforms compared to the SW."
maybe. but i just want to have strong (but fair) tool witch the fun gameplay and a cool aesthetic. if is not enough, there are other areas to explore in class.
i suggested that reaping should bee ranged a year ago, gwf could use a ranged ability either to finish off running targets, or to have smth to do when defending/capping a point vs ranged classes, hit ranged standing on poles/bridges in pvp or pull targets and have a cool ability
doubt it would be too op since u would have to lose threatening or sure strike for it
Then, use Icy rays on tab, shield as normal encounter together with Chill strike and entantgling and you all should do fine on PvP and, on the next mod, use together with Chill Presence and you will do far better than now.
Is Chill Presence working?
Also, before you talk, try beating BIS TRs next mod first
i suggested that reaping should bee ranged a year ago, gwf could use a ranged ability either to finish off running targets, or to have smth to do when defending/capping a point vs ranged classes, hit ranged standing on poles/bridges in pvp or pull targets and have a cool ability
doubt it would be too op since u would have to lose threatening or sure strike for it
If you implement the possibility of "sprint" while casting the power of rp (standard gwf speed , sprint bonus ) does not hurt to add "casting bar" in power as m-leap, punishing charge, not so fast, and do the instigator "a casting tree" ...
the 3 damage feets key here would increase damage per casting level (+ 33% per level - to put in destroyer line - or more if limited casting for sentinels), damage of casting powers per target (10% CAP5), damage of cast powers x single target (50%).
If you put m-leap / nsf get in intimidation line (single target or x5), this would allow for the pvp, but in this case without being aoe-tank and delay between attacks (which you try compensate with flourish or fls).
being now nsf / mleap in rp line, my "berserk combo" (capstone :rolleyes:) make possible if each encounter burned increased rp by 50% over the top. A casting = 4 attacks of 50% bonus (3 encounters / final Atwill).
People would complain, but without reason. is less tank than the live destroyer and need some skill (but hit reaaaaaaaaaaaaally hard).
I remember ayroux (I guess) saying that gwf should be slower, but dangerous. and pvp people should fear him. I think a gwf walking in your direction with a sword flashing in red and can take half your hp with a jump a good definition of this gwf. not to mention that is aesthetically more like the berserkers of other games.
ps:yes, need "study" the potential of it. is a concept/general projection.
Bug: Hunter Ranger: Pathfinder: Careful Attack hits 3-4 times per tick with a DOT enchantment such as Plague Fire or Flaming, resulting in x4 more DPS than intended
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Careful Attack deals 584 (1018) Physical Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Your Plague Fire Weapon deals 21 (38) Fire Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Careful Attack deals 588 (1024) Physical Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Your Plague Fire Weapon deals 21 (37) Fire Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Careful Attack deals 622 (1084) Physical Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Your Plague Fire Weapon deals 21 (38) Fire Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Careful Attack deals 286 (996) Physical Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Your Plague Fire Weapon deals 10 (36) Fire Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
i suggested that reaping should bee ranged a year ago, gwf could use a ranged ability either to finish off running targets, or to have smth to do when defending/capping a point vs ranged classes, hit ranged standing on poles/bridges in pvp or pull targets and have a cool ability
doubt it would be too op since u would have to lose threatening or sure strike for it
A charged sword attack that packs so much force it creates a flying shockwave... the fanboy in me cant wait. But it aint happening here.
What it might be turned into is a charged ranged rush. You take the stance, you charge reaping strike being cc immune while charging, once you release the button you lunge forward to your target ( 30-40 ft range maybe ) dealing the current RS damage plus some sort of light cc effect, short daze, short stun, stagger/slow etc. And it would be a considerable alternative to TR
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited November 2014
Make you move fast as the GF guarding with reaping strike charging up for starters.
Like what class are you playing? A neverwinter commoner for crying out loud ? If Storm Fury doesnt have a 1 second ICD (i was under the impression that it does ) , it should . Other than that there is nothing wrong with it .
The stormfury damage should be a fraction of the received damage.
With my 12k CW in GG pvp I once hold a 22k CW perma-cc-ed (yep CW should have a way to break cc, most classes have one, but this is a different debate). Will skill finally, for once, win over gear? I thought. Well, gear prevailed. Once I brought his 40k HP to 20k HP, his stormfury started to hit me for 3000 each time any of my spells was hitting him for 500. So, while perma-floating in the air and doing absolutely nothing, maybe refining his enchants or chatting on Twitter the 22k CW defeated the 12k one.
Stormfury has the same bug as the GWF's DeepGash had long ago, it is an indirect damage that delivers much more damage than the direct damage that triggered it.
Comments
iam not sure considering my last post... but, yes, is not infallible like you know... perhaps gwf will still need other changes. punishing charge/steadfast still there, wait for crazy ideas hahahahaha (tera is good inspiration if you dont understand what is happening).
"Just saying: i want to see any of you using Reaping on VT or eLoL..."
the actual reaping strike is not a number one choice in any scenario.
"surely, most of you will use it as a "resudial encounter""
the "berserk idea", yes. the actual rp is just a aesthetic choice (but for now my aesthetic choice is leave the game... have a giant sword but see one... nevermind).
ps: look in youtube for TERA Berserker PvE Nightforge - LoT (Labrynth of Terror) solo run
0:59/1:03... the idea is that, but... well... time of our reaping strike but, proportional "with the damage of the single target reaping strike"(3:44). in our case, crescendo.
Takedown: make takedown prone for 1 second and or make it a 30' charge
Frontline surge: reduce cooldown by 40% and or buff damage by 50-100%
IBS/Flourish: reduce cast time like you did it with CW spells
Sure strike /wicked strike: buff damage by 30+%
Sentinel feats:
Intimidation: scale this feat down to 25-30% power.
Instigator feats:
Allied opportunity: make this feat mark instead of giving combat advantage, increase uptime by 3-5 seconds
Nimble runner/Crippling Strike: rework those feats to something useful.
Destroyer/instigator capstone should do piercing damage and get lifesteal.
Suggestion:
CW's Stormfury must have 5-10 sec CD. Without CD Stormfury very OP Class Feature.
1- immunity to cc during activation
2- building AP instead of determination (as this should have been). Reason why it should build ap is cause it needs a daily like slam to be used with in pve, but due that 5 sec immunity after a daily it will never happen. I would even use it pvp also with a high burst instigator/destroyer permarunner when i;m using unstoppable to recover stamina.
i do, cause it has the potential to add depth in gwf playstyle for pve and pvp.
Terrible attitude. Everything should have a viable use to it.
there are other things that should be done, not reaping strike
not /walk 1 animation and not fixing CN door after 5 modules...
yeah..
lacks a bit of practice to understand that the proposed to rp would be easy to use, but I have a definite solution for pve (meh for pvp).
If you use the sprint AFTER completing the charge (you can charge in 1 sec at the end of unstoppable) the gwf walk "normally" but with the sprint bonus (even the animation was destroyed, would not have aesthetic difference, just in a sword and a normal speed even though, in theory, be "sprint"). this would leave the reaping strike 100% usable in pve and some p2w genius could make an omelet in pvp.
Thank you all for your continued feedback! huehuehuehuehue,,,
ps: just to remember, that rp idea is a casual buff for a especific situation of pve (my interest area). That is the problem. If you try solve al problems to the class by a single power, you will cause a big imbalance. for me, if possible, a solution for pve should be zero use for pvp and vice versa, and in this logic I include ALL classes. is really, really possible to make an omelet with powers of little use.
....
Even with the buffs, the GWF underperforms compared to the SW.
I have a better idea. CWs' HP should be capped at 30k HP, DR at 5% ,weapon dmg capped at 100 dmg .Oh, and when flagged for PvP,CWs should get rooted for 20 seconds and be unable to cast ,because "hey ! they can freeze me for 1 second ! "
A power that activates when we drop to 50% and the number you came up with, for a cooldown , is 10 seconds ? Does it take 10 seconds for you to drop an equally geared CW to 50% hp ? or will it take 10 seconds for you to get him from 50% to 0 ? Like what class are you playing? A neverwinter commoner for crying out loud ?
If Storm Fury doesnt have a 1 second ICD (i was under the impression that it does ) , it should . Other than that there is nothing wrong with it . 10 seconds would mean that it would hit a random target just once,and then we would most likely be dead before the next proc. Does that seem fair ? Would Storm Fury be any attractive to slot it then ?
Seriously , people here are saying that CW is a controller class, but you guys complained enough (sorry... CRIED ENOUGH) and got our extra control passive nerfed to uselessness . Then, you complained about DOT passive dmg , which got storm spell nerfed ( I can agree to this , Im with all those CWs that ask for a Shard buff instead - after all ,its only CWs and GWFs that dont even have 1 prone -and ofc, thats a byproduct of forum criers) .So , contradicting what the community says regarding CW role , you wanted to strip us of our control, strip us of our 1 defensive dmg tool , force us to use shield on tab , not give us a bit more Dmg Reduction and all that in the name of something that only you would ever call "balance" . Basically , what you want is to kill CWs with minimal effort .
Has any of you taken just 1 moment to think that TRs can control us for far longer periods than CWs get to control TRs ? (entangle lasts less than 1 second...) . GFs aswell . Even GWFs' stun durations seem to be longer than "controls" by a controller class.
Ok ,we get it . You lost a 1vs1 to a CW . THAT SHOULD HAPPEN TOO. There is 0 reason for you to come here and ask for nerfs cuz of that.(Specially when your suggestion is so ... <CMs would remove what I should type here>...and biased)
STOP POSTING FEEDBACK if your goal is to destroy CLASSES . (your were halfway done with the CW eitherway ... its like 1-2 powers and feats that make us competitive . Take those away and then you will all have to open a new thread : "Why do people jump to the FotM class?" . 1st reply will be mine . " CUZ U COMPAINED ENOUGH TO DESTROY THEIR CLASSES ,GENIOUS."
( TO THE CM : if u decide that im too aggressive , please change/remove/correct the corresponding part.But my points are all valid ,so please do not remove the post if you are going to let all that biased feedback in here . )
I agree to most of this. The storm fury is good the way it is until they decide to move our damage back to our encounters. It does not make our class OP in any way. You might be able to argue that one single class feature should not be this good, but in that case that means our other stuff that we have is not good enough because the end result of the fights shows everyone that we are not OP. But at this point I think every single class have a few apsects that works way to good.
And I also feel like the Control Wizard sometimes have even less control than other classes like TR/GWF/GF and that feels wrong somehow.
THIS is how a reaping strike should look like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah24Tz4J53w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fvigxL0INc
Actually without the current Orb of Imposition, FS, Takedown, Break the Spirit, Dazing Strike, Disruptive Shot and even the book of the dead last longer than Entangling Force and Chill Strike together on players.
Besides Shield and Teleport, our feats and class features are doing EVERYTHING for our class to stand still.
1:56, sir.:rolleyes:
"Even with the buffs, the GWF underperforms compared to the SW."
maybe. but i just want to have strong (but fair) tool witch the fun gameplay and a cool aesthetic. if is not enough, there are other areas to explore in class.
i suggested that reaping should bee ranged a year ago, gwf could use a ranged ability either to finish off running targets, or to have smth to do when defending/capping a point vs ranged classes, hit ranged standing on poles/bridges in pvp or pull targets and have a cool ability
doubt it would be too op since u would have to lose threatening or sure strike for it
Is Chill Presence working?
Also, before you talk, try beating BIS TRs next mod first
Yeah, a power wave attack would be neat.
If you implement the possibility of "sprint" while casting the power of rp (standard gwf speed , sprint bonus ) does not hurt to add "casting bar" in power as m-leap, punishing charge, not so fast, and do the instigator "a casting tree" ...
the 3 damage feets key here would increase damage per casting level (+ 33% per level - to put in destroyer line - or more if limited casting for sentinels), damage of casting powers per target (10% CAP5), damage of cast powers x single target (50%).
If you put m-leap / nsf get in intimidation line (single target or x5), this would allow for the pvp, but in this case without being aoe-tank and delay between attacks (which you try compensate with flourish or fls).
being now nsf / mleap in rp line, my "berserk combo" (capstone :rolleyes:) make possible if each encounter burned increased rp by 50% over the top. A casting = 4 attacks of 50% bonus (3 encounters / final Atwill).
People would complain, but without reason. is less tank than the live destroyer and need some skill (but hit reaaaaaaaaaaaaally hard).
I remember ayroux (I guess) saying that gwf should be slower, but dangerous. and pvp people should fear him. I think a gwf walking in your direction with a sword flashing in red and can take half your hp with a jump a good definition of this gwf. not to mention that is aesthetically more like the berserkers of other games.
ps:yes, need "study" the potential of it. is a concept/general projection.
ps2:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kWa2d9nBsg
Also, list of HR bugs for module 5:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?787111-List-of-mod-5-(preview)-HR-bugs
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Careful Attack deals 584 (1018) Physical Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Your Plague Fire Weapon deals 21 (38) Fire Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Careful Attack deals 588 (1024) Physical Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Your Plague Fire Weapon deals 21 (37) Fire Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Careful Attack deals 622 (1084) Physical Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Your Plague Fire Weapon deals 21 (38) Fire Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Careful Attack deals 286 (996) Physical Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
[17:46] [Combat (Self)] Your Plague Fire Weapon deals 10 (36) Fire Damage to WoWiscrapNWisthe****.
That was from one proc of Careful Attack.
A charged sword attack that packs so much force it creates a flying shockwave... the fanboy in me cant wait. But it aint happening here.
What it might be turned into is a charged ranged rush. You take the stance, you charge reaping strike being cc immune while charging, once you release the button you lunge forward to your target ( 30-40 ft range maybe ) dealing the current RS damage plus some sort of light cc effect, short daze, short stun, stagger/slow etc. And it would be a considerable alternative to TR
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
The stormfury damage should be a fraction of the received damage.
With my 12k CW in GG pvp I once hold a 22k CW perma-cc-ed (yep CW should have a way to break cc, most classes have one, but this is a different debate). Will skill finally, for once, win over gear? I thought. Well, gear prevailed. Once I brought his 40k HP to 20k HP, his stormfury started to hit me for 3000 each time any of my spells was hitting him for 500. So, while perma-floating in the air and doing absolutely nothing, maybe refining his enchants or chatting on Twitter the 22k CW defeated the 12k one.
Stormfury has the same bug as the GWF's DeepGash had long ago, it is an indirect damage that delivers much more damage than the direct damage that triggered it.