DC's are drama queens. And apparently plenty of people think they are being outhealed, when they are the ones adding +50% healing to the entire party. They think that they are actual healers which isn't the case, instead of supporters to the healing abilities of other classes.
You are talking about righteousness which hasn't a 100% up time we have to heal before that is active. So remember the story about the CW's who walk ahead of the group and killing everything? they don't have the extra incoming healing. Remember the story about GWF's and HR's that can solo the boss? they don't have the extra incoming healing.
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fusionawesomeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 121Arc User
People are crying about their DC since like page 2 of this thread. As is pointed out multiple times already, LS is only a bigger advantage for: "Give me an a... A!, Give me an o... O!, give me an e... E!" A O E, AOE, aoe, using classes.
I can dance the words, too if it makes you understand things easier, np.
True, maybe an internal cool-down might be enough so you cant get healing from 5 creatures in one go.
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onecoolscatcatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 575Arc User
edited October 2014
Again, I have no problems with life steal as it currently stands. Lifesteal is icing on a half-baked cake. Finish the cake before worrying about icing.
You are talking about righteousness which hasn't a 100% up time we have to heal before that is active. So remember the story about the CW's who walk ahead of the group and killing everything? they don't have the extra incoming healing. Remember the story about GWF's and HR's that can solo the boss? they don't have the extra incoming healing.
LOL and this exlains it all he doesnt even understand that reightousnous is NOT a buff. It's a debuff to heal you do to yourself, worded to sound like a BUFF so you do not complain about the fact your heals are cut by 40% when you heal yourself.
Might I suggest your read this? Its a little old but still quite relevant even now.
LOL and this exlains it all he doesnt even understand that reightousnous is NOT a buff. It's a debuff to heal you do to yourself, worded to sound like a BUFF so you do not complain about the fact your heals are cut by 40% when you heal yourself.
Might I suggest your read this? Its a little old but still quite relevant even now.
In the link you gave Kealac used the word buff himself:"By itself it won't feel like much in combat, but with incoming healing bonuses, and DC's righteousness buff it becomes very powerful."
It's not just about aoe. It's also about spike damage. Right now when I do 100k on a npc (which isn't an uncommon figure) with my dps character, using a single target encounter, with endless consumption i get more than my max HPs back. Sure not everyone is doing 100k easily... Yet. So what should we delay the fix because not everyone has reach the point to which lifesteal becomes "God mode engaged"?
The root of the issue is that it's a direct % of the damage dealt, aoe or not isn't important, what matters is that the more you stack offensive stats the more you tank. Until this issue is being addressed it will remain a blatant push to the speedrun zerg all with no support & pull 50 npcs at once playstyle.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
The root of the issue is that it's a direct % of the damage dealt, aoe or not isn't important, what matters is that the more you stack offensive stats the more you tank. Until this issue is being addressed it will remain a blatant push to the speedrun zerg all with no support & pull 50 npcs at once playstyle.
This is the root of it. Lifesteal double dips.
If you get more Lifesteal, you heal more per hit. If you do more damage per hit, Lifesteal is more effective. Ergo, the glassier your cannon is, the harder it is to die, which should be the opposite. But right now, there's no real trade off.
You can put a minimal 1000 point investment in Lifesteal, then pour everything else into offense, and your survivability goes through the roof.
It's why earlier in the thread I proposed a simple "first" fix of halving the effectiveness of Lifesteal on a per point basis. Make people invest 2000-3000 points to really feel the full effects of Lifesteal, so they have to commit beyond just stacking more offensive stats.
Sure, everyone can still have 3-5% Lifesteal at 800-1200 points. That's enough to be meaningful and help you stay topped off, but that's not nearly enough to start face tanking dungeons with abandon.
It's not just about aoe. It's also about spike damage. Right now when I do 100k on a npc (which isn't an uncommon figure) with my dps character, using a single target encounter, with endless consumption i get more than my max HPs back. Sure not everyone is doing 100k easily... Yet. So what should we delay the fix because not everyone has reach the point to which lifesteal becomes "God mode engaged"?
The root of the issue is that it's a direct % of the damage dealt, aoe or not isn't important, what matters is that the more you stack offensive stats the more you tank. Until this issue is being addressed it will remain a blatant push to the speedrun zerg all with no support & pull 50 npcs at once playstyle.
Screenshots would be nice, otherwise your claims cannot be taken serious. Did you test a CW single target encounter? Because CW's damage is quite off the wall AOE or not and i think that also plays a huge role. So please, dear tantrum swinging DC fellow, stop spreading this type of false information. There's more than enough people that know for a fact, that what you're trying so hard to make everyone believe is a plain LIE.
DC's are drama queens. And apparently plenty of people think they are being outhealed, when they are the ones adding +50% healing to the entire party. They think that they are actual healers which isn't the case, instead of supporters to the healing abilities of other classes.
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I can agree with AOE using classes, having a lot more benefit from lifesteal than others (single target classes) but these people, like i mentioned fail to realize that the DC is the cause for such a great amount of healing, especially when combined with a huge AOE target cap.
But these people will learn, at least someday...
I saw you msg like 3 times, lol, but what is your proposal?, in any game there's a logic to obey, if you go full DPS you are more squishy, if you go full Tank then you will be able to withstand more damage but you will do less damage, BUT HERE the logic is: save some points for LS and then go FULL DPS, then you will be able to withstand more damage (even more if you choose being Tanky)... and that is illogical, that's the kind of thing that makes a real "teamwork" nonexistent in this game...
If you say that the DCs are adding +50% healing to the entire party... Then I would nerf that a little (let's say 35-40%), nerf Life Steal in general (60% maybe), and nerf LS on AOE damage.
sure nerf LS more so it ill become the most useless stat in pvp.
So what? Honestly, it's already pretty useless. You don't live long enough for it to do much, especially with healing suppression. It's why Regeneration is better in PvP, because you can heal up in between fights when you're not under the effect of healing suppression.
Screenshots would be nice, otherwise your claims cannot be taken serious. Did you test a CW single target encounter? Because CW's damage is quite off the wall AOE or not and i think that also plays a huge role. So please, dear tantrum swinging DC fellow, stop spreading this type of false information. There's more than enough people that know for a fact, that what you're trying so hard to make everyone believe is a plain LIE.
Ok, so you think that doing 100K damage is hard?, lol.
Screenshots would be nice, otherwise your claims cannot be taken serious. Did you test a CW single target encounter? Because CW's damage is quite off the wall AOE or not and i think that also plays a huge role. So please, dear tantrum swinging DC fellow, stop spreading this type of false information. There's more than enough people that know for a fact, that what you're trying so hard to make everyone believe is a plain LIE.
When you are with people who know how to play their class such figures aren't unrealistic. Pvorpal, crit, a GF doing his job (team buffing), add a couple of rays of enfeeblmement, wicked reminder or DC debuffs... Yes 100k with ice knife, steal time (per npc), sudden storm (per npc) or icy rays. This isn't an issue.
Having run ACT quite often lately i can tell you that some of my GWF friends also experienced 150k crits on a single target. Most dps class can easily reach such a level of spike damage but of course it requires some practice. Are you interested in something else except insulting everyone who disagrees with you? If you have frustration or anger issue a game forums isn't the right place to solve it.
What lvl is your toon if i might ask? Setup and gear specs? You sound just like all the other new people who haven't a clue yet about how this game actually functions. D&D always had lifesteal, and it works exactly as it should. I don't get, what is so hard to understand about this? Clerics are S U P P O R T E R S, a supporter does not directly heal, they increase other character's healing... and that is what DC's are doing. Sure, every basket of apples has a few foul ones who would like to be the "mega omg you cannot do anything without my HEALZORZ", type of toon but that would destroy the game for the other classes.
When you are with people who know how to play their class such figures aren't unrealistic. Pvorpal, crit, a GF doing his job (team buffing), add a couple of rays of enfeeblmement, wicked reminder or DC debuffs... Yes 100k with ice knife, steal time (per npc), sudden storm (per npc) or icy rays. This isn't an issue.
Having run ACT quite often lately i can tell you that some of my GWF friends also experienced 150k crits on a single target. Most dps class can easily reach such a level of spike damage but of course it requires some practice. Are you interested in something else except insulting everyone who disagrees with you? If you have frustration or anger issue a game forums isn't the right place to solve it.
See, they are NOT doing it on their own, as you just stated they are in a freaking PARTY. I have no anger issue, i just am sick and tired of people who are clueless, to the point that their suggestions would shred the entire game for everyone else. Nobody can be this narrowminded/naive call it whatever you think may fit best... selfish would be the best way to describe this behaviour. And no, i haven't insulted anybody.
So what? Honestly, it's already pretty useless. You don't live long enough for it to do much, especially with healing suppression. It's why Regeneration is better in PvP, because you can heal up in between fights when you're not under the effect of healing suppression.
So what, DC are support characters? Yes. just like GFs, TRs, combat rangers and healing SWs. Keeping lifesteal as it is means it's just suboptimal to take one of these support characters instead of stacking more dps. Right now all the game is about is stacking dps to insane levels while relying on lifesteal to do all the work. AOE, single target, doesn't matter. We've played the game for almost a freacking year without lifesteal and no one was having much issue zerging content but we had to invite some support characters to the party.
Get whatever you want in the party. Run to the next door until you have enough npcs to stay alive or until you trigger soulforge, then bring the monkey to the keyboard and let it play with it, let him smash keys in a random order, stay in red, who cares, lifesteal will make sure you stay alive with your 8k power and 3k crit.
So yes lifesteal makes the game very monotonous, it makes support irrelevant (support or not there's always a way to get enough healing with dps and lifesteal), you don't even need to know how to play your character, all you have to do is smashing buttons to make sure you stay alive. So much skill. So much fun. So much challenge when all you have to do to stay alive is doing as much damage as you can and mostly have to care about running as fast as your character can to the loot.
So what, DC are support characters? Yes. just like GFs, TRs, combat rangers and healing SWs. Keeping lifesteal as it is means it's just suboptimal to take one of these support characters instead of stacking more dps. Right now all the game is about is stacking dps to insane levels while relying on lifesteal to do all the work. AOE, single target, doesn't matter. We've played the game for almost a freacking year without lifesteal and no one was having much issue zerging content but we had to invite some support characters to the party.
Get whatever you want in the party. Run to the next door until you have enough npcs to stay alive or until you trigger soulforge, then bring the monkey to the keyboard and let it play with it, let him smash keys in a random order, stay in red, who cares, lifesteal will make sure you stay alive with your 8k power and 3k crit.
So yes lifesteal makes the game very monotonous, it makes support irrelevant (support or not there's always a way to get enough healing with dps and lifesteal), you don't even need to know how to play your character, all you have to do is smashing buttons to make sure you stay alive. So much skill. So much fun. So much challenge when all you have to do to stay alive is doing as much damage as you can and mostly have to care about running as fast as your character can to the loot.
no amount of life-steal will save someone from dying in 1 second from multiple hard hits or a 1-shot
What lvl is your toon if i might ask? Setup and gear specs? You sound just like all the other new people who haven't a clue yet about how this game actually functions. D&D always had lifesteal, and it works exactly as it should. I don't get, what is so hard to understand about this? Clerics are S U P P O R T E R S, a supporter does not directly heal, they increase other character's healing... and that is what DC's are doing. Sure, every basket of apples has a few foul ones who would like to be the "mega omg you cannot do anything without my HEALZORZ", type of toon but that would destroy the game for the other classes.
15K GF, 13K HR and a lvl 52 GWF...
I never said that you shouldn't do anything without clerics, but if we could see more stuff from reals MMORPG here like: "Ok, please, be behind the GF, cleric watch out for his HP, TR, please focus on boss, etc..." would be nice, instead of marathonic race to see who does more damage and who can complete the dungeon in less time (and not even worry about the boss that apparently has mental retardation and can't even kill the squishy classes without cleric or a Tank that protect him), that's boring, self centered and a non-existent concept of team work.
For me, Life Steal is contributing to the last thing I said, and not the first thing, and really, I became here because I played NWN and loved the D&D background (story, character, etc...), but if we worried that this game follow all the mechanics of D&D, then there should be a lot of changes.
Not english speaker, in case I said something wrong.
I actually like that lifesteal is our primary self healing stat. It makes keeping your own health up more interactive than regen (a passive stat) ever could.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
... Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
...
I never said that you shouldn't do anything without clerics, but if we could see more stuff from reals MMORPG here like: "Ok, please, be behind the GF, cleric watch out for his HP, TR, please focus on boss, etc..." would be nice, instead of marathonic race to see who does more damage and who can complete the dungeon in less time (and not even worry about the boss that apparently has mental retardation and can't even kill the squishy classes without cleric or a Tank that protect him), that's boring, self centered and a non-existent concept of team work.
100% agree! Would certainly make the game a bit more challenging and encourage players to work as a team and think more instead of a "Who can rush in the fastest to do the most damage" situation like you are saying. As it is life steal just encourages this kind of behaviour because it lets people get away with it and make the main role of clerics in groups almost obsolete. Don't get me wrong tho I dont want see classes restricted to one way of playing in groups as it is good they can be flexible to fit different situations, and tbh we do have that at the moment with GWF/GF that can tank or do dmg, SWs that can heal or focus on dmg, and HRs that can be melee, ranged and/or more of a support/control class.
I think perhaps it should be possible to do group PvE content with no tank or healer sure, but at least make it actually require more skill and tactics to make up for it to survive. This would then make having a tank and/or healer in the group a prefered (but not required choice). This would require a change of game mechanics too tho I think, although SOT and LOL are a step in the right direction
When you are with people who know how to play their class such figures aren't unrealistic. Pvorpal, crit, a GF doing his job (team buffing), add a couple of rays of enfeeblmement, wicked reminder or DC debuffs... Yes 100k with ice knife, steal time (per npc), sudden storm (per npc) or icy rays. This isn't an issue.
Having run ACT quite often lately i can tell you that some of my GWF friends also experienced 150k crits on a single target. Most dps class can easily reach such a level of spike damage but of course it requires some practice. Are you interested in something else except insulting everyone who disagrees with you? If you have frustration or anger issue a game forums isn't the right place to solve it.
I happened be running with ACT tonight so I can provide a screenshot w the proof he seeks.
Now its not 150k, but my warlock is also temptation. Other classes and specs have much higher damage spells and thus would hit for accordingly more. Keep in mind too fiery bolt also is also aoe, and hits up to 5 targets, so this is just 1 hit of that bolt.
I also just found THIS particularly large hit cause by TT.
Would an 861k hit satisfy him do you think?
May the RNG Gods smile on you today!
Adorable Temptress - 23.4k Temptation SW
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
I happened be running with ACT tonight so I can provide a screenshot w the proof he seeks.
Now its not 150k, but my warlock is also temptation. Other classes and specs have much higher damage spells and thus would hit for accordingly more. Keep in mind too fiery bolt also is also aoe, and hits up to 5 targets, so this is just 1 hit of that bolt.
I also just found THIS particularly large hit cause by TT.
Would an 861k hit satisfy him do you think?
That's why LS is the problem, not only the AOE damage, yet there are ppl who thinks nobody does more than 100K on one hit...
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
edited October 2014
I completely agree with the Op. Lifesteal should go away and be given only to the Temptation Warlock (and toned down for him). Monsters damage should be toned down and monsters should get more access to control effects (and not only red areas that do damage).
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited October 2014
Ok, so mob hits me for 20k,
I hit potion for 8.5k, regen maybe 500/s, astra shield regen 1.5k a second, so maybe i get what? 11k back at most.
Next swing hits for 20k, boom i'm dead. GG.
Terrible idea here man, even with DC it's terrible. One of the biggest benefits to astral shield is the incoming healing bonus, which effects lifesteal.
Also, this would encourage DCs to focus on healing, when DCs have many many excellent abilities that don't necessarily heal.
I find that life steal in PvE is too much and also I find that pure melee classes here are much more punished since you have to use potions from the begining while some ranged classes can almost forget them (I have a HR, a GF and a GWF and that is what I felt), so I thought that one way to normalize the HP gain is to buff regeneration, maybe a 10-25% of what it is now for every class except pure melee clases, these should have a buff on regeneration of 25-35%, and then remove life steal completely from the game.
A healer DC could be more requested, apart from the point of view that refill the HP bar on a second with a skill/encounter/power I've rarely seen on other games, and it's worse cause it's a base stat, a base stat that is allowing us to refill the HP in one second...
Frankly, I do believe Lifesteal gets way overpowered, especially when you couple it with Endless Consumption (I know I will get a lot of hate for this, and Yes..I use this Boon and I love it on My GWF). But I honestly doubt such a major change is around the corner (unless they give it due consideration while buffing DCs); of course, if any updates have already been announced and I am wrong and someone has already chimed in and stated it here somewhere on this thread, I stand corrected.
Current state of the Game:Life steal is overpowered. I understand that less geared players will be affected if this was in any way nerfed. However, some sort of middle ground needs to be sought. Else pure Healing Clerics have much less of a role to play towards End game content and they might as well focus on the Cleric's ability to debuff and dps in the upcoming Mod.
Dodge. Staying in an area covered with red is rarely a good idea. If the ground is covered with too many layers of reds then you're probably in for the " most obnoxious pull of the month" award.
That's just my ideal scenario with lifesteal toned down. We've all played CN with 10k GS and 0 lifesteal at launch. Worked great. Was fun. Now, not anymore.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited October 2014
oh lol Dio you know i can dodge ha!
sometimes there is too much stuff to dodge, even without obnoxious pull of the month award (though I might win that too!).
nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
Lifesteal is simply too powerful.
Back before module 2, lifesteal was an extremely difficult Stat to get above 600 without seriously reducing your Damage or slotting Dark Enchantment in Defensive Slots.
Now, lifesteal is handed out like candy and just about every dps class has between 9-13% before modifiers, which makes Clerics obsolete for healing purposes.
In order to make healing clerics useful (and wanted in a party, rather than as a debuffer/buffer) and the upcoming rework have any effect, lifesteal simply has to be toned down.
I would be OK with Lifesteal still granting the current %, but it has to be capped at no more than 1000 HP returned per attack. This continues to allow Lifesteal to be a great stat to have and keep at ~10% (due to At Wills) but will prevent Encounters and Dailies simply healing you back to full in a single cast every few seconds.
Right now, the only way it is possible for a smart Damage Dealer class (GWF, CW, HR) to die is to be chain-proned for a significant duration or be one-hit. Anything else you just survive due to lifesteal and can stand in Red all day (unless its a one-hit).
And Guardian Fighters can tank with Knight's Valor on without a cleric or Temptation Warlock in party due to Lifesteal and Fighter's Recovery as well, which I simply can't believe is intended by design.
As a side effect, capping the Lifesteal effect will also make Temptation Warlocks not easily outheal Clerics all the time, as cleric healing has cooldowns and what not, and Warlock healing is constant (i.e. lifesteal)
Comments
You are talking about righteousness which hasn't a 100% up time we have to heal before that is active. So remember the story about the CW's who walk ahead of the group and killing everything? they don't have the extra incoming healing. Remember the story about GWF's and HR's that can solo the boss? they don't have the extra incoming healing.
True, maybe an internal cool-down might be enough so you cant get healing from 5 creatures in one go.
LOL and this exlains it all he doesnt even understand that reightousnous is NOT a buff. It's a debuff to heal you do to yourself, worded to sound like a BUFF so you do not complain about the fact your heals are cut by 40% when you heal yourself.
Might I suggest your read this? Its a little old but still quite relevant even now.
Kaelac’s guide to damage, tenacity, reisistance and debuffs in Neverwinter
Enjoy, and you are welcome
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
Your right this explains alot
In the module 3 patch they changed this:
Righteousness: This power has been reworked to now provide a healing bonus of 70% to allies. Cleric Feats and Powers now heal by about 40% less than they previously did but overall still heal allies about 10% more than they previously did.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?635631-Curse-of-Icewind-Dale-Preview-Patch-Notes-NW-15-20140314a-5
So our heals are 100% to us and a 170% to allies.
In the link you gave Kealac used the word buff himself:"By itself it won't feel like much in combat, but with incoming healing bonuses, and DC's righteousness buff it becomes very powerful."
Might i suggest you do some reading yourself.
The root of the issue is that it's a direct % of the damage dealt, aoe or not isn't important, what matters is that the more you stack offensive stats the more you tank. Until this issue is being addressed it will remain a blatant push to the speedrun zerg all with no support & pull 50 npcs at once playstyle.
This is the root of it. Lifesteal double dips.
If you get more Lifesteal, you heal more per hit. If you do more damage per hit, Lifesteal is more effective. Ergo, the glassier your cannon is, the harder it is to die, which should be the opposite. But right now, there's no real trade off.
You can put a minimal 1000 point investment in Lifesteal, then pour everything else into offense, and your survivability goes through the roof.
It's why earlier in the thread I proposed a simple "first" fix of halving the effectiveness of Lifesteal on a per point basis. Make people invest 2000-3000 points to really feel the full effects of Lifesteal, so they have to commit beyond just stacking more offensive stats.
Sure, everyone can still have 3-5% Lifesteal at 800-1200 points. That's enough to be meaningful and help you stay topped off, but that's not nearly enough to start face tanking dungeons with abandon.
Screenshots would be nice, otherwise your claims cannot be taken serious. Did you test a CW single target encounter? Because CW's damage is quite off the wall AOE or not and i think that also plays a huge role. So please, dear tantrum swinging DC fellow, stop spreading this type of false information. There's more than enough people that know for a fact, that what you're trying so hard to make everyone believe is a plain LIE.
I saw you msg like 3 times, lol, but what is your proposal?, in any game there's a logic to obey, if you go full DPS you are more squishy, if you go full Tank then you will be able to withstand more damage but you will do less damage, BUT HERE the logic is: save some points for LS and then go FULL DPS, then you will be able to withstand more damage (even more if you choose being Tanky)... and that is illogical, that's the kind of thing that makes a real "teamwork" nonexistent in this game...
If you say that the DCs are adding +50% healing to the entire party... Then I would nerf that a little (let's say 35-40%), nerf Life Steal in general (60% maybe), and nerf LS on AOE damage.
So what? Honestly, it's already pretty useless. You don't live long enough for it to do much, especially with healing suppression. It's why Regeneration is better in PvP, because you can heal up in between fights when you're not under the effect of healing suppression.
Ok, so you think that doing 100K damage is hard?, lol.
When you are with people who know how to play their class such figures aren't unrealistic. Pvorpal, crit, a GF doing his job (team buffing), add a couple of rays of enfeeblmement, wicked reminder or DC debuffs... Yes 100k with ice knife, steal time (per npc), sudden storm (per npc) or icy rays. This isn't an issue.
Having run ACT quite often lately i can tell you that some of my GWF friends also experienced 150k crits on a single target. Most dps class can easily reach such a level of spike damage but of course it requires some practice. Are you interested in something else except insulting everyone who disagrees with you? If you have frustration or anger issue a game forums isn't the right place to solve it.
What lvl is your toon if i might ask? Setup and gear specs? You sound just like all the other new people who haven't a clue yet about how this game actually functions. D&D always had lifesteal, and it works exactly as it should. I don't get, what is so hard to understand about this? Clerics are S U P P O R T E R S, a supporter does not directly heal, they increase other character's healing... and that is what DC's are doing. Sure, every basket of apples has a few foul ones who would like to be the "mega omg you cannot do anything without my HEALZORZ", type of toon but that would destroy the game for the other classes.
See, they are NOT doing it on their own, as you just stated they are in a freaking PARTY. I have no anger issue, i just am sick and tired of people who are clueless, to the point that their suggestions would shred the entire game for everyone else. Nobody can be this narrowminded/naive call it whatever you think may fit best... selfish would be the best way to describe this behaviour. And no, i haven't insulted anybody.
*warrning* pug spoted *warrning*
So what, DC are support characters? Yes. just like GFs, TRs, combat rangers and healing SWs. Keeping lifesteal as it is means it's just suboptimal to take one of these support characters instead of stacking more dps. Right now all the game is about is stacking dps to insane levels while relying on lifesteal to do all the work. AOE, single target, doesn't matter. We've played the game for almost a freacking year without lifesteal and no one was having much issue zerging content but we had to invite some support characters to the party.
Get whatever you want in the party. Run to the next door until you have enough npcs to stay alive or until you trigger soulforge, then bring the monkey to the keyboard and let it play with it, let him smash keys in a random order, stay in red, who cares, lifesteal will make sure you stay alive with your 8k power and 3k crit.
So yes lifesteal makes the game very monotonous, it makes support irrelevant (support or not there's always a way to get enough healing with dps and lifesteal), you don't even need to know how to play your character, all you have to do is smashing buttons to make sure you stay alive. So much skill. So much fun. So much challenge when all you have to do to stay alive is doing as much damage as you can and mostly have to care about running as fast as your character can to the loot.
no amount of life-steal will save someone from dying in 1 second from multiple hard hits or a 1-shot
15K GF, 13K HR and a lvl 52 GWF...
I never said that you shouldn't do anything without clerics, but if we could see more stuff from reals MMORPG here like: "Ok, please, be behind the GF, cleric watch out for his HP, TR, please focus on boss, etc..." would be nice, instead of marathonic race to see who does more damage and who can complete the dungeon in less time (and not even worry about the boss that apparently has mental retardation and can't even kill the squishy classes without cleric or a Tank that protect him), that's boring, self centered and a non-existent concept of team work.
For me, Life Steal is contributing to the last thing I said, and not the first thing, and really, I became here because I played NWN and loved the D&D background (story, character, etc...), but if we worried that this game follow all the mechanics of D&D, then there should be a lot of changes.
Not english speaker, in case I said something wrong.
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Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
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100% agree! Would certainly make the game a bit more challenging and encourage players to work as a team and think more instead of a "Who can rush in the fastest to do the most damage" situation like you are saying. As it is life steal just encourages this kind of behaviour because it lets people get away with it and make the main role of clerics in groups almost obsolete. Don't get me wrong tho I dont want see classes restricted to one way of playing in groups as it is good they can be flexible to fit different situations, and tbh we do have that at the moment with GWF/GF that can tank or do dmg, SWs that can heal or focus on dmg, and HRs that can be melee, ranged and/or more of a support/control class.
I think perhaps it should be possible to do group PvE content with no tank or healer sure, but at least make it actually require more skill and tactics to make up for it to survive. This would then make having a tank and/or healer in the group a prefered (but not required choice). This would require a change of game mechanics too tho I think, although SOT and LOL are a step in the right direction
I happened be running with ACT tonight so I can provide a screenshot w the proof he seeks.
Now its not 150k, but my warlock is also temptation. Other classes and specs have much higher damage spells and thus would hit for accordingly more. Keep in mind too fiery bolt also is also aoe, and hits up to 5 targets, so this is just 1 hit of that bolt.
I also just found THIS particularly large hit cause by TT.
Would an 861k hit satisfy him do you think?
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
That's why LS is the problem, not only the AOE damage, yet there are ppl who thinks nobody does more than 100K on one hit...
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I hit potion for 8.5k, regen maybe 500/s, astra shield regen 1.5k a second, so maybe i get what? 11k back at most.
Next swing hits for 20k, boom i'm dead. GG.
Terrible idea here man, even with DC it's terrible. One of the biggest benefits to astral shield is the incoming healing bonus, which effects lifesteal.
Also, this would encourage DCs to focus on healing, when DCs have many many excellent abilities that don't necessarily heal.
Really, really dislike this idea.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Dont have the strength/patience to read 15 pages on this thread (Sorry). But had made similar suggestions earlier and was pretty much shot down because a lot of players rely on LS.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?688531-Gameplay-Class-balance-Yes-Another-thread-amp-this-time-it-is-about-Lifesteal
The most the thread achieved was to get people to discuss it and the most useful input being to switch Lifesteal to LifeOnHit.
Frankly, I do believe Lifesteal gets way overpowered, especially when you couple it with Endless Consumption (I know I will get a lot of hate for this, and Yes..I use this Boon and I love it on My GWF). But I honestly doubt such a major change is around the corner (unless they give it due consideration while buffing DCs); of course, if any updates have already been announced and I am wrong and someone has already chimed in and stated it here somewhere on this thread, I stand corrected.
Current state of the Game: Life steal is overpowered. I understand that less geared players will be affected if this was in any way nerfed. However, some sort of middle ground needs to be sought. Else pure Healing Clerics have much less of a role to play towards End game content and they might as well focus on the Cleric's ability to debuff and dps in the upcoming Mod.
Dodge. Staying in an area covered with red is rarely a good idea. If the ground is covered with too many layers of reds then you're probably in for the " most obnoxious pull of the month" award.
That's just my ideal scenario with lifesteal toned down. We've all played CN with 10k GS and 0 lifesteal at launch. Worked great. Was fun. Now, not anymore.
sometimes there is too much stuff to dodge, even without obnoxious pull of the month award (though I might win that too!).
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Back before module 2, lifesteal was an extremely difficult Stat to get above 600 without seriously reducing your Damage or slotting Dark Enchantment in Defensive Slots.
Now, lifesteal is handed out like candy and just about every dps class has between 9-13% before modifiers, which makes Clerics obsolete for healing purposes.
In order to make healing clerics useful (and wanted in a party, rather than as a debuffer/buffer) and the upcoming rework have any effect, lifesteal simply has to be toned down.
I would be OK with Lifesteal still granting the current %, but it has to be capped at no more than 1000 HP returned per attack. This continues to allow Lifesteal to be a great stat to have and keep at ~10% (due to At Wills) but will prevent Encounters and Dailies simply healing you back to full in a single cast every few seconds.
Right now, the only way it is possible for a smart Damage Dealer class (GWF, CW, HR) to die is to be chain-proned for a significant duration or be one-hit. Anything else you just survive due to lifesteal and can stand in Red all day (unless its a one-hit).
And Guardian Fighters can tank with Knight's Valor on without a cleric or Temptation Warlock in party due to Lifesteal and Fighter's Recovery as well, which I simply can't believe is intended by design.
As a side effect, capping the Lifesteal effect will also make Temptation Warlocks not easily outheal Clerics all the time, as cleric healing has cooldowns and what not, and Warlock healing is constant (i.e. lifesteal)