No. I've explained why this can be considered an exploit several times already. You obviously do not agree with my assessment.
So....
Anything else?
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Interestingly, the backlog growth graph appears to be slowing.. I wonder if the asymptote will indeed be a good deal lower than 10 million? Did a bunch of people get probation/banned after all? Hmmm... needs more time to say for sure.
0
fauust01Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This just in: When you forcefully cancel a someone's Zen listing, they will put it up again for pretty much the same amount. More details at 9 along with the stunning report on how water cures thirst.
This just in: When you forcefully cancel a someone's Zen listing, they will put it up again for pretty much the same amount. More details at 9 along with the stunning report on how water cures thirst.
Guys, this wasn't officially supposed to be any kind of "fix" if you read the release notes. Some of us suspected there was more to the story however. We "conspiracy nuts" could very well be wrong, and in fact the backlog might be higher due to fewer people buying AD with zen than usual, possibly after hearing about how the ZAX was "acting weird" and cancelling orders.
Hi, Seems a lil weird as I can't find anything on here about it. but according to my AD exchange theres Nothing posted. AT ALL. Now I'm sure there's AD posted on there as so many of you still seem to be commenting about it. I can Post AD/zen for exchange but I never get any exchanged but I can claim it back. I'd love to transfer what little Zen I have into AD for a little gear on the Auction house but theres no way I can. Thanks if you can help in advance.
Nothing appears to be posted because there is currently a large backlog of orders so as soon as anybody posts some zen for exchange it is instantly exchanged so it never has a chance to appear on the exchange list , on that picture you are on the buy zen tab , if you open the tab in the middle and put your zen up for sale at 500 ad per 1 zen it should sell pretty much instantly .
Not sure how you can blame them for nothing they said they were intending to sort out...
Well it's probably because the reasons they said were so unbelievable, that they invited conspiracy theories. Saying that it was for account maint just didn't make sense and sure seems false when STO uses the same username/pwd database and didn't have a ZAX wipe during it's maint.
Now the only thing about this is that common sense said that it wouldn't have any effect on the backlog and so far at almost 24 hours in, it hasn't. That said, because of the tinfoil reasons stated above, I still think that they were either trying to do something that had no chance of working or there was some kind of bug with the ZAX they didn't want to tell us about that they stealth fixed.
I wonder how some of you came to think there was some fix. No communication in this sense was ever made ... And now some would want to criticize the fact a non existent fix is not fixing things ? Are you even trying to think before writing ?
Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
Well it's probably because the reasons they said were so unbelievable, that they invited conspiracy theories. Saying that it was for account maint just didn't make sense and sure seems false when STO uses the same username/pwd database and didn't have a ZAX wipe during it's maint.
Now the only thing about this is that common sense said that it wouldn't have any effect on the backlog and so far at almost 24 hours in, it hasn't. That said, because of the tinfoil reasons stated above, I still think that they were either trying to do something that had no chance of working or there was some kind of bug with the ZAX they didn't want to tell us about that they stealth fixed.
I don't blame them for thinking that. I wondered myself, though I knew that if they ignored the exchanges of the exploiters it would have likely been too late anyway. I also wondered if there was a zen cap rise. But after it's all happened you can't really blame them if they never said anything to suggest it was because of that. It worked well for me, I put up an offer early and managed to get a little bit of zen. I still want AD for double rp weekend though. I accidentally put an offer to sell 1000 zen instead of buying it before this happened. Tiredness kills. Whatever the real reason, it doesn't really matter I guess.
Well, if there is a fix, I haven't been able to find it yet. I can still put up an offer for 5k Zen at once. I don't have the AD to test how often I can do that on 1 account, but that would be the only fix I can think of: Changing the max amount of offers an account can make.
You can still make 5 listings at a time. Tried it with 1z offers :P
0
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited September 2014
There is really no reason to think that the reset was in any way intended as an attempt to reduce the backlog - which would pretty obviously not do anyhow - but obviously they did it for some reason...who knows - maybe a database change, maybe a potential security hole...who knows....but it had (probably) nothing to do with the backlog.
Well it's probably because the reasons they said were so unbelievable, that they invited conspiracy theories. Saying that it was for account maint just didn't make sense and sure seems false when STO uses the same username/pwd database and didn't have a ZAX wipe during it's maint.
Now the only thing about this is that common sense said that it wouldn't have any effect on the backlog and so far at almost 24 hours in, it hasn't. That said, because of the tinfoil reasons stated above, I still think that they were either trying to do something that had no chance of working or there was some kind of bug with the ZAX they didn't want to tell us about that they stealth fixed.
If there was some stealth fix for a serious bug, they would have done the same reset to the other games exchanges. Previous AH bugs such as negative bids affected all games, indicating they use the same codebase (which just makes sense as its the same functionality).
If they were just wiping stuff from exploit banned accounts, then there was a lot less exploit banned account ad in the system than people thought since it's back to pretty much where it was before Thursday.
If they were just wiping stuff from exploit banned accounts, then there was a lot less exploit banned account ad in the system than people thought since it's back to pretty much where it was before Thursday.
Well I think a bunch of us thought there was zero banned AD in the backlog... it's just been too long since the resonator got shut down. A look at the nwzen.biz website reveals that the backlog has hit an asymptote of just under 9 million zen... which is 1 million zen less than the previous 10 million.
We lost 10% of the backlog, people. Not a humongous amount, but 10% of the backlog is half a billion AD. \
I'd like to think that 500 million AD is gone because some poeple using goldspammers got banned/probationed. But that's just the tinfoil talking.
Well I think a bunch of us thought there was zero banned AD in the backlog... it's just been too long since the resonator got shut down. A look at the nwzen.biz website reveals that the backlog has hit an asymptote of just under 9 million zen... which is 1 million zen less than the previous 10 million.
We lost 10% of the backlog, people. Not a humongous amount, but 10% of the backlog is half a billion AD.
I'd like to think that 500 million AD is gone because some poeple using goldspammers got banned/probationed. But that's just the tinfoil talking.
I was told by someone that it was 9.5 million ZEN just before the reset, and it is 9 million now.
Half a million ZEN is really too small to be drawing any conclusions off, given that many people may not have played since the reset, and others facing another 2 weeks wait may have given up or bought ZEN.
Remember that during the exploit the ZAX was rising at almost 0.5 million a day, and after started falling at 150K ZEN a day, So at a rough guess something like two-thirds of a million ADs worth of ZEN per day were coming into the system then. So at best (and there are other explanations for the difference) this reset might have caught one day's worth of exploited AD....
Scroll down to the bottom where it tracks 500AD offers (the backlog), you can see the numbers for yourself. That quick downward slope in the graph before the maintenance nosedive was from people pulling their orders from the ZAX before maintenance started.
But it's kinda like splitting hairs, so... sorry. Either way, the backlog is slightly lower -- not drastically so. It needs to be zero.
Scroll down to the bottom where it tracks 500AD offers (the backlog), you can see the numbers for yourself. That quick downward slope in the graph before the maintenance nosedive was from people pulling their orders from the ZAX before maintenance started.
But it's kinda like splitting hairs, so... sorry. Either way, the backlog is slightly lower -- not drastically so. It needs to be zero.
Seeing as how that is partly what this thread is about... give us your take on this.
With pleasure, I'm glad you asked
Unlock the two currencies and let them float against each other naturally, free-market style. There would be a very predictable spike in the AD:Zen ratio as people sitting on hordes of AD bid the price up to get their hands on the Zen they want, but those increased ratios would provide a far greater incentive for real dollar spenders to buy into the Zax. It would have another benefit as well. The cheaper a million AD becomes in real dollars the less profitable 3rd party AD selling becomes. Consider that as you evaluate my comments as well.
Right now, given the prices on the AH, $20/million AD is seriously steep...consider that this exchange rate places a real money value on an 8mil AD enchant at $160 for example.
I know, from the storm of flames I got the last time I made these comments, that there are a lot of free-to-play players who think I'm crazy, an exploiter (no idea, but yes my position caused that accusation), a market player who only wants to see this happen so I can continue my Scrooge-like market domination (the <1 mil AD in my wallet would like to talk to those people), and more...
The fact is, I am none of the above. I believe the backlog can be dramatically lowered and 3rd party AD sales dramatically impacted in a positive way.
Unlock the two currencies and let them float against each other naturally, free-market style. There would be a very predictable spike in the AD:Zen ratio as people sitting on hordes of AD bid the price up to get their hands on the Zen they want, but those increased ratios would provide a far greater incentive for real dollar spenders to buy into the Zax. It would have another benefit as well. The cheaper a million AD becomes in real dollars the less profitable 3rd party AD selling becomes. Consider that as you evaluate my comments as well.
Right now, given the prices on the AH, $20/million AD is seriously steep...consider that this exchange rate places a real money value on an 8mil AD enchant at $160 for example.
I know, from the storm of flames I got the last time I made these comments, that there are a lot of free-to-play players who think I'm crazy, an exploiter (no idea, but yes my position caused that accusation), a market player who only wants to see this happen so I can continue my Scrooge-like market domination (the <1 mil AD in my wallet would like to talk to those people), and more...
The fact is, I am none of the above. I believe the backlog can be dramatically lowered and 3rd party AD sales dramatically impacted in a positive way.
While it is obvious that removing cap would also remove backlog instantly, that it would be good for the economy - is not. It's like debating if not being able to buy something because shelves in shop are empty is better than not being able to buy the same thing because you have not enough money.
While it is obvious that removing cap would also remove backlog instantly, that it would be good for the economy - is not. It's like debating if not being able to buy something because shelves in shop are empty is better than not being able to buy the same thing because you have not enough money.
Uhh...no it isn't. The "shelves" are empty right now. As soon as "product" comes in, it is sold to consumers and never makes it to the shelf.
Once the supply of AD goes into the hands of those with Zen, the price will start to re-stabilize. Once all the people with cash to spend have got their hands on "enough" AD, they won't have any more reason to trade for more AD, and the price will stabilize. Also, there's just too many of them to worry about AH monopolies.
While the worth of AD is in the shi**er, the gold-farmers will effectively go out of business from not being able to make a profitable margin on AD sales.
Unlock the two currencies and let them float against each other naturally, free-market style. There would be a very predictable spike in the AD:Zen ratio as people sitting on hordes of AD bid the price up to get their hands on the Zen they want, but those increased ratios would provide a far greater incentive for real dollar spenders to buy into the Zax. It would have another benefit as well. The cheaper a million AD becomes in real dollars the less profitable 3rd party AD selling becomes. Consider that as you evaluate my comments as well.
Right now, given the prices on the AH, $20/million AD is seriously steep...consider that this exchange rate places a real money value on an 8mil AD enchant at $160 for example.
I know, from the storm of flames I got the last time I made these comments, that there are a lot of free-to-play players who think I'm crazy, an exploiter (no idea, but yes my position caused that accusation), a market player who only wants to see this happen so I can continue my Scrooge-like market domination (the <1 mil AD in my wallet would like to talk to those people), and more...
The fact is, I am none of the above. I believe the backlog can be dramatically lowered and 3rd party AD sales dramatically impacted in a positive way.
Once this happens a lot of people with zen will sell, right now the value isn't high enough at 500/1 to sell the zen, except for compulsive buys. Plus the way cryptic/pw works this could be a stealth change at any given moment, and without the backlog receding this keeps looking like a better and better option that people will keep waiting for.
Once this happens a lot of people with zen will sell, right now the value isn't high enough at 500/1 to sell the zen, except for compulsive buys. Plus the way cryptic/pw works this could be a stealth change at any given moment, and without the backlog receding this keeps looking like a better and better option that people will keep waiting for.
The inflation will instantly reach millions of ad per zen, and the whales that purchase everything with cash will be alone as the people that were totally f2p and those that sometimes buy will all leave, leaving you with about 3% of the population left playing the game. Guess what happens to the server shortly after that.
Uhh...no it isn't. The "shelves" are empty right now. As soon as "product" comes in, it is sold to consumers and never makes it to the shelf.
Once the supply of AD goes into the hands of those with Zen, the price will start to re-stabilize. Once all the people with cash to spend have got their hands on "enough" AD, they won't have any more reason to trade for more AD, and the price will stabilize. Also, there's just too many of them to worry about AH monopolies.
While the worth of AD is in the shi**er, the gold-farmers will effectively go out of business from not being able to make a profitable margin on AD sales.
This, of course, is why currencies in the real world float against each other as a matter of routine. Over the long haul things tend to stabilize.
Once this happens a lot of people with zen will sell, right now the value isn't high enough at 500/1 to sell the zen, except for compulsive buys. Plus the way cryptic/pw works this could be a stealth change at any given moment, and without the backlog receding this keeps looking like a better and better option that people will keep waiting for.
The inflation will instantly reach millions of ad per zen, and the whales that purchase everything with cash will be alone as the people that were totally f2p and those that sometimes buy will all leave, leaving you with about 3% of the population left playing the game. Guess what happens to the server shortly after that.
Hyperbole...in the extreme. Millions to one? Do you really think there is enough currency in the game to support AD inflating to 2000 times its current trading value against Zen? You seriously assert that if I put 5 zen on the market it would return 5 million AD if the currencies were allowed to float?
Your argument is deeply flawed, and is fear mongering pure and simple.
The inflation will instantly reach millions of ad per zen, and the whales that purchase everything with cash will be alone as the people that were totally f2p and those that sometimes buy will all leave, leaving you with about 3% of the population left playing the game. Guess what happens to the server shortly after that.
Actually quite a few of people have tens of thousands of zen, most just bought through the ZAX and their the ones sitting on it, I agree their might be a couple of people who have that because of outlandish budgets to spend on the game, but the rest they just made the AD and then convert to ZEN to save because of the inflation, and those are most of the people who would be spending, not as many of your so called "whales" as you think.
This, of course, is why currencies in the real world float against each other as a matter of routine. Over the long haul things tend to stabilize.
It stabilizes because of geopolitics, of Central Banks manipulations, of regulations. True free market is barbarism and anarchy, it's the strongest dictates to the weakest ... No sane person would want totally free rein on a market.
Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
Hyperbole...in the extreme. Millions to one? Do you really think there is enough currency in the game to support AD inflating to 2000 times its current trading value against Zen? You seriously assert that if I put 5 zen on the market it would return 5 million AD if the currencies were allowed to float?
Your argument is deeply flawed, and is fear mongering pure and simple.
You really think they caught the exploiters? I don't. I think there are plenty of accounts that are lying low right now with 50 characters all maxed out on AD. We havent' seen the end of this by a long shot.
Comments
Moderator Notice:
If one thinks something is an Exploit, DO NOT post it on our forums and do not insinuate such on our forums. The Rules of Conduct prohibit such, whether what one insinuates is an exploit or not. Instead, contact Support or file a Bug Report. Posting about Exploits or Exploiters will lump said person with them, as spreading public information about Exploits is considered to be just as bad as Exploiting in itself.
Consider this part of the topic (exploiting) to be done. If anyone has further words to say on the matter, use Private Messages or contact Support. Thanks!
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Wait til tomorrow, when the players from that other part of the world wake up.
/10chars
lol, this just made my day.
Well it's probably because the reasons they said were so unbelievable, that they invited conspiracy theories. Saying that it was for account maint just didn't make sense and sure seems false when STO uses the same username/pwd database and didn't have a ZAX wipe during it's maint.
Now the only thing about this is that common sense said that it wouldn't have any effect on the backlog and so far at almost 24 hours in, it hasn't. That said, because of the tinfoil reasons stated above, I still think that they were either trying to do something that had no chance of working or there was some kind of bug with the ZAX they didn't want to tell us about that they stealth fixed.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
I don't blame them for thinking that. I wondered myself, though I knew that if they ignored the exchanges of the exploiters it would have likely been too late anyway. I also wondered if there was a zen cap rise. But after it's all happened you can't really blame them if they never said anything to suggest it was because of that. It worked well for me, I put up an offer early and managed to get a little bit of zen. I still want AD for double rp weekend though. I accidentally put an offer to sell 1000 zen instead of buying it before this happened. Tiredness kills. Whatever the real reason, it doesn't really matter I guess.
You can still make 5 listings at a time. Tried it with 1z offers :P
If they were just wiping stuff from exploit banned accounts, then there was a lot less exploit banned account ad in the system than people thought since it's back to pretty much where it was before Thursday.
Well I think a bunch of us thought there was zero banned AD in the backlog... it's just been too long since the resonator got shut down. A look at the nwzen.biz website reveals that the backlog has hit an asymptote of just under 9 million zen... which is 1 million zen less than the previous 10 million.
We lost 10% of the backlog, people. Not a humongous amount, but 10% of the backlog is half a billion AD. \
I'd like to think that 500 million AD is gone because some poeple using goldspammers got banned/probationed. But that's just the tinfoil talking.
I was told by someone that it was 9.5 million ZEN just before the reset, and it is 9 million now.
Half a million ZEN is really too small to be drawing any conclusions off, given that many people may not have played since the reset, and others facing another 2 weeks wait may have given up or bought ZEN.
Remember that during the exploit the ZAX was rising at almost 0.5 million a day, and after started falling at 150K ZEN a day, So at a rough guess something like two-thirds of a million ADs worth of ZEN per day were coming into the system then. So at best (and there are other explanations for the difference) this reset might have caught one day's worth of exploited AD....
http://nwzen.biz/
Scroll down to the bottom where it tracks 500AD offers (the backlog), you can see the numbers for yourself. That quick downward slope in the graph before the maintenance nosedive was from people pulling their orders from the ZAX before maintenance started.
But it's kinda like splitting hairs, so... sorry. Either way, the backlog is slightly lower -- not drastically so. It needs to be zero.
I know how to get it to zero.
Seeing as how that is partly what this thread is about... give us your take on this.
With pleasure, I'm glad you asked
Unlock the two currencies and let them float against each other naturally, free-market style. There would be a very predictable spike in the AD:Zen ratio as people sitting on hordes of AD bid the price up to get their hands on the Zen they want, but those increased ratios would provide a far greater incentive for real dollar spenders to buy into the Zax. It would have another benefit as well. The cheaper a million AD becomes in real dollars the less profitable 3rd party AD selling becomes. Consider that as you evaluate my comments as well.
Right now, given the prices on the AH, $20/million AD is seriously steep...consider that this exchange rate places a real money value on an 8mil AD enchant at $160 for example.
I know, from the storm of flames I got the last time I made these comments, that there are a lot of free-to-play players who think I'm crazy, an exploiter (no idea, but yes my position caused that accusation), a market player who only wants to see this happen so I can continue my Scrooge-like market domination (the <1 mil AD in my wallet would like to talk to those people), and more...
The fact is, I am none of the above. I believe the backlog can be dramatically lowered and 3rd party AD sales dramatically impacted in a positive way.
While it is obvious that removing cap would also remove backlog instantly, that it would be good for the economy - is not. It's like debating if not being able to buy something because shelves in shop are empty is better than not being able to buy the same thing because you have not enough money.
Once the supply of AD goes into the hands of those with Zen, the price will start to re-stabilize. Once all the people with cash to spend have got their hands on "enough" AD, they won't have any more reason to trade for more AD, and the price will stabilize. Also, there's just too many of them to worry about AH monopolies.
While the worth of AD is in the shi**er, the gold-farmers will effectively go out of business from not being able to make a profitable margin on AD sales.
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Once this happens a lot of people with zen will sell, right now the value isn't high enough at 500/1 to sell the zen, except for compulsive buys. Plus the way cryptic/pw works this could be a stealth change at any given moment, and without the backlog receding this keeps looking like a better and better option that people will keep waiting for.
The inflation will instantly reach millions of ad per zen, and the whales that purchase everything with cash will be alone as the people that were totally f2p and those that sometimes buy will all leave, leaving you with about 3% of the population left playing the game. Guess what happens to the server shortly after that.
This, of course, is why currencies in the real world float against each other as a matter of routine. Over the long haul things tend to stabilize.
Yes.
Hyperbole...in the extreme. Millions to one? Do you really think there is enough currency in the game to support AD inflating to 2000 times its current trading value against Zen? You seriously assert that if I put 5 zen on the market it would return 5 million AD if the currencies were allowed to float?
Your argument is deeply flawed, and is fear mongering pure and simple.
Actually quite a few of people have tens of thousands of zen, most just bought through the ZAX and their the ones sitting on it, I agree their might be a couple of people who have that because of outlandish budgets to spend on the game, but the rest they just made the AD and then convert to ZEN to save because of the inflation, and those are most of the people who would be spending, not as many of your so called "whales" as you think.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
You really think they caught the exploiters? I don't. I think there are plenty of accounts that are lying low right now with 50 characters all maxed out on AD. We havent' seen the end of this by a long shot.