I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Cute. So, in addition to ad hominems, hyperbole, and emotional appeals, you're now gonna add going to add cherry picking to the list too? Here's what I actually said.
Now, aside from the problems with it that were fixed, I think KV is fine as is and, I'm not saying that block needs to be nerfed but, if you're going to complain about ITC then, you kind of have to agree that block is pretty overpowered too and should be nerfed as well.
Any other view and you're clearly trolling.
Which, at this point, it's pretty clear that you are.
Now, here's where I prove that you're full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and are just here to troll because your precious preferred class is having an ability nerfed. You see, you started in with how ITC needs to be removed if KV is adjusted in response to a comment that was made before there was any announcement of an adjustment of that ability in this thread but, that announcement was made known before you went off about how ITC needs to be removed from the game and, to top it off, you were making comments about why are they still QQing when you were quoting a comment that was posted before that adjustment to KV was made known in this thread. Due you understand concepts like causality and chain of events? Your behavior in this thread suggests you don't which is why I have to ask. If you do actually understand then, you're a pretty blatant troll. If you have another explanation for your behavior in this thread, I'd love to hear it. I'm honestly looking forward to seeing if you'll try to backpedal, admit you were trolling, or if you'll just keep plowing ahead with the same foolish bullheadedness that you've been displaying so far.
Actually, I can read just fine, thank you very much. It's still cute how you have to throw out an insult at every chance you get though. I'd explain to you what the type of behavior you're displaying in this thread suggests but, I'm doubtful that you'd be able to comprehend it at this point and, before you even try to comment on the irony of me repeatedly calling you stupid while pointing out your own poor behavior, I'm fully aware of it and, you've earned it. You have convinced me that KV is a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> power though. I mean, the GF takes damage when they use it. What's up with that? We should start a thread asking that it be removed from the game entirely and replaced with something that has no risk to the GF. You were complaining about the movement rate of GFs in one of your earlier posts. Maybe we should ask them to replace KV with something that boosts their movement rate for 4-5 seconds. Then people wouldn't be able to run away from GFs and they wouldn't have an ability that causes them to take damage. What do you think?
Actually, I'm very aware of the differences. I'm also aware now that you don't seem to understand what the word potentially means which only lends credence to my theory that you're not all that bright. Also, doing damage to a GF or his teammates doesn't turn off KV. Don't you play one of those? You shouldn't need that pointed out to you. I thought you knew your character class but, apparently not.
Wow. For someone that likes to throw around constant insults about the intellect of others, you have some serious cognitive impairments. I'm going to try to explain this to you but, have very strong doubts that you'll be able to understand based on everything you've said so far...
No one was asking for KV to be removed from the game.
People wanted the range on it cut down because it covers the entire PvP map when it's used and they want it to require that the other people on the team be in line of sight of the GF before those people can benefit from KV.
The first person in this thread to say that abilities needed to be removed entirely from the game was you.
I can't believe you actually made that last comment considering what you quoted since I expressed my opinion on KV multiple times in what you quoted but, I'll repeat them all in big bold letters just for you.
I don't think the power should be done away with all together or nerfed to the point of uselessness but, it definitely needed an adjustment and, you've done nothing at all to defend it unless you count ranting about another class as defending the one you seem to prefer. I'm honestly amazed that we've even been having this conversation considering that you don't seem to be able to grasp something that simple.
Do you get it yet?
Actually, YOU don't get.
1)Once again, as you're reading impaired, NOT A SINGLE GF IN HERE HAS SAID THAT ITS CURRENTLY WAI. When the people you're raging against are agreeing with you, why are you STILL QQing. That denotes bias in your statements, or at least trolling when you're arguing just to argue.
2)I explained that stunning a gf stops KV. I'm sorry, I forgot you couldn't read, so I guess I now have to explain that KILLING the GF also stops the effect. It should've been obvious that the best way to stop a tank is by disabling/destroying it(I guess damage isn't a thing in a dps game :rolleyes:).
3)Once again, not only read the thread name, but the posts of the offensive members in the thread. "GFs Knights Valor is destroying PvP" is an OBVIOUS nerf QQ. My bad for lumping you in with people YOURE SO FANATICALLY DEFENDING.
4)and for someone PRETENDING to not be bias in this discussion, I'll try to explain this as bluntly as possible. I'll doubt you'll get it though... Not only are GFs fine with the fix to it, but have posted exactly HOW the devs are fixing it. You're literally arguing just to troll, continuously proving my "arguing for the sake if arguing" statement.
5)you started throwing insults at me from the moment I dealt with your fellow troll. You're literally QQing that I insulted you, because I responded to your insults. Seriously? Also, claiming someone's stupid(btw, what YOU did first I might add) is clearly a troll insult, and while I guess I'm wrong for returning in kind, was also only in response to you. You're like that kid in school who hits a kid, that kid hits back, and you QQ to the teacher.
6)BLOCK is the GFs class mechanic. Comparing it to ITC shows your continuing bias in the matter. THATS why it should've been compared to stealth, like someone did(hmm wonder who made that fair comparison, instead of being bias by comparing it to something that shouldn't have been compared?(ie block vs ITC) :rolleyes:).
7)ITC has it's own OP qualities, as does KV. For an at least okay comparison, please read my last post on the "stealth vs block, ITC versus KV" post.
Don't YOU get it? I'll make a simple statement, that should end this back and forth bs:
"GFs are even admitting that it's not WAI, and continuously insulting GFs point of view, or complaining about a power that WILL be fixed, is obviously trolling".
For example, GWFs roar was NOT WAI, but do you know how many people QQed AFTER the devs stated that they're fixing it? See what you're doing here? You're not only beating a dead horse, you're beyond that. You're beating a horse AFTER it's going to get better. Who insults and beats someone for something a) they have no control over, and b) is getting fixed?
Now, as far as the insults go, if YOU didn't start them, we could've been civil in this thread.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
EDIT: saying ITC should be removed was wrong, and not my intention. ALTHOUGH I did retrace and say that it shouldn't be removed(I'm wrong for that, but I'll only apologize to the non bias TRs in here(myself included). But, and here's where the reading kicks in, there are too many offended players who aren't saying it directly, but want KV GONE. Once again, the very thread name is basically an OBVIOUS nerf QQ. You're defending THOSE people.
What are we GFs supposed to think when you're STILL QQing about something were agreeing with you about? When were generally fine(don't see offended GFs in here) with the fixes being imposed? When everyone's in agreement, why are YOU still QQing/throwing insults?
Shoot, I think 80' should be a good range, but for PVP ONLY. And that's a guy with 2 different(1 pve, 1 pvp) GFs. The problem is, affecting 1 affects the other. Like someone said earlier, pvp QQing screws up pve, and vice versa. Look at the TR: considered too OP in beta, nerfed to hell cuz of pvp. Now, nobody wants them in pve much, EXCEPT to exploit their broken build(permastealth). I was completely fine with the old burst TR days, but not everyone was happy with a class that you couldn't see 1 shotting you. They may have needed toned down, but if someone made a thread stating they've been toned down too much, I'll hop on and defend that person's point.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Now, to reply to your obscenely long "GF is too OP OMG PLZ NERF!!!" QQing(let's call YOU on YOUR bs, shall we?):
I never said GFs are OP. My stance has not changed at all during this entire discussion and that opinion was that KV needs to be adjusted and that you've been trolling. That's it.
ITCs no risk/high reward versus KVs high risk/high reward comparison, just to show the bias in your QQing? Check.
I don't know if I'd call ITC a high reward. It's definitely helpful as a get out of jail free card when someone hits you with a CC but, if you don't kill them in the next 4 seconds, you're pretty much screwed if they have more than one CC and, I don't have a bias. I'm simply realize that something that benefits one person for 4 seconds is not as powerful an ability as something that can reduce the damage 4 people take by half. In fact, you seem to be the only person in this whole thread that thinks ITC is so much more powerful than KV. I'm not even going to comment on being accused of a class bias considering who it's coming from.
TRs not highest on damage, but still superior to GF(once again, used to be a burst TR) and you're STILL trolling about how powerful GF is? Check.
I see how you keep saying you used to play a TR. Do you not play it anymore and, are you really trying to say that these two classes are evenly balanced simply because a TR can out DPS a GF? You must think that HRs are supremely overpowered in comparison to a GF, huh? Oh wait. That's what your main is. Nah... HRs aren't OP at all then. They should probably be buffed.
Called out on your "most other classes are faster" bs, except that no other class can be nearly as fast as a mount(GWF/SW run out of stamina, then have no dodge basically)? Check.
I said that other classes are faster than GFs and explained why they don't need to move as fast as other classes. How are you able to even type a coherent sentence with such a low level of comprehension or, are you confusing me with matt44444? Yeah... see, that's not me. If it was, it would have had my name next to the post instead of matt's. You must not be aware that there's already perma sprint GWFs in game and, I wouldn't be surprised if we end up seeing perma sprint SWs too.
Currently calling you out on your hate towards GFs, as you're QQing about a power that's not only getting fixed, but EVEN GFS ARE IN AGREEMENT ABOUT IT NOT WAI. You arguing just to hide your hate for GFs? Check.
Again, I wasn't QQing. I was calling you on your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. You must be extremely reactionary and excitable if you can't even understand that the people you've been arguing with have been saying the same things that the GFs you agree with have been saying. Do you just have some insane fear that anyone that isn't playing the same class as you that weighs in on the balance of that class just wants you to be weak so you're an easy kill?
Not hating on TRs, but stating the obvious pros/cons of both, while comparing the advantages 1 has over the other? Check.
That's what I've been doing as well. That you don't seem to understand that and lash out with blatant irrational hostility towards anyone commenting that doesn't play a GF really does suggest that you have some absurd fear that everyone wants you to be weak so you're an easy kill.
Calling out that GFs could NEVER solo an epic(corrected, for your misunderstanding), whereas a TR can? Check(show me a vid of a GF soloing CN for example, and I'll take this back).
Go to youtube and look it up yourself. There's videos there for you to see and, at this point I see no reason to do you any favors.
Showing the weaknesses in a GFs armor, and you're STILL declaring how OP an ENCOUNTER THATS GETTING FIXED TO RESPECT PVE/PVP PLAYSTYLES? Check.
You didn't show anything. Are you delusional in addition to all the other issues you've displayed in this thread? Currently, yeah. It is OP. Once it's fixed, I'll stop saying it's OP. Maybe that's what you don't understand so, I'll repeat it once more for you since you really seem to need it said repeatedly before it'll sink in.
I don't think the power should be done away with all together or nerfed to the point of uselessness but, it definitely needed an adjustment and, you've done nothing at all to defend it unless you count ranting about another class as defending the one you seem to prefer. I'm honestly amazed that we've even been having this conversation considering that you don't seem to be able to grasp something that simple.
Showing why a GUARDIAN FIGHTER has team powers, and why a trickster ROGUE has little to none, hence why they are picked more? Check.
Picked more for what? Dungeons? You didn't say that to me. All you're currently doing is showing that you're so quick to nerd rage and go on rants towards anyone that says anything suggesting that a GF might need to have an ability adjusted that you can't even tell who it is you're yelling at.
Showing your bias of hating a team helper mechanic, only by showing how little a TR sacrifices, compared to what a GF sacrifices? Check.
Once again, you're full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> because your arguments on this topic have been all over the map and you're going to have to specify if you're talking about ITC, perma stealth or, just TRs in general as you've gone on an insane rant about all three at one point or another.
Proving a point that a low geared TR will out damage all but a dedicated to dps GF? Check.
If you really think this, you must not know the class as well as you think you do. All a GF needs to do to get a nice damage boost is land a prone. Once that happens, nothing they do can be deflected. They don't need to have a dedicated DPS build to be able to do some pretty good damage.
The GF has their ups/downs. The game is all about the dps race, with healing/tanking taking a back seat. When I post the fundamentals about how both classes act, and you're response is "wah! He wants to nerf TR because he SHOWED THE FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCES IN HOW GF/TR work", shows YOUR class fanaticism. I guess if I'm a class fanatic for sticking up for GFs, you're 10x worse for claiming that everything else is better in just about every way.
If you really think this then, point out one single thing TRs do as well as or better than other classes besides not getting hit when they're in stealth because, if that's all you can think of, then that would suggest that all TRs should be perma stealth which seems to be something you don't want. I think TRs are fun as hell but, with the exception of a perma stealth TR for back capping in PvP, I would rather have any other class on a team with me. CWs are better at CC snd DPSing. HRs and SWs are better at DPSing and have better survivability thanks to their range. GWFs are just as good, if not better, at DPSing, have more survivability, and offer agro management. DCs can heal and debuff. GFs have way more survivability and offer agro management. Given all that, why on Earth would I want a TR on my team?
P.S. 150' might seem large in pvp. But if it's nerfed to node size, what use does it have in pve? That's what you bias QQers end up doing. You QQ until something's easy for you, but hard for everyone else.
That's almost double the range of the max distance any of the ranged classes can attack from and, that's not what it's being nerfed from. That's what it's being nerfed to. There is no legit reason for a GF to need KV to extend farther than that. They sure as hell don't need it to have infinite range and ignore LoS and that has been my only issue with KV so, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. With how KV currently works, a GF could just sit at the entrance to a dungeon with block going and drinking potions with KV on while all the DPSers run through killing everything and there'd be no real risk to the GF at all. How's that for no risk/high reward?
P.P.S. I noticed you complained about HRs/CWs not being able to burn down a GF they can't see . Does it really hurt you that much to move a little? Also, complaining about RANGED DPS NOT REACHING A SLOW MOVING TANK continues to your show off bias here. Ranged dps is superior to melee dps currently. A ranged class that can kill in 6 seconds is superior(in a face to face sense) when it can attack for a few seconds BEFORE the melee class gets their.
Move a little? If I have to go from one end of a map to another to do something about the KV that's helping the person I'm fighting where I currently am while I'm playing a melee toon, that's not moving a little. That's crossing the whole **** map. That's what I've wanted adjusted. If a DC could sit at the campfire and spam heals to the entire rest of their team regardless of where on the map they are, people would be saying that needs to be nerfed. That's basically what's currently going on with GFs which is why people have been asking for KV to be adjusted and, there's no need to say, 'Well it's getting changed so why are you QQing?' because I'm not QQing. I'm explaining something to someone that seems to have some serious comprehension issues. I also never said anything about a ranged DPS not being able to reach a GF. I said that if a GF is on a node and being attacked by range that they shouldn't have to worry about running after the ranged attacker because the ranged attackers on the GF's team should be going after them while being protected by KV. You know... using that team play that you've been highlighting as validation of KV?
You must become forgetful when you get in a heated argument. Go look at page 5. That's your first comment in this thread. In that post you are defending KV as it currently is in game. As soon as someone disagreed with you about that and said that KV as it currently is in game is OP, you went off. That's when you said ITC needs to be removed completely if KV is touched by the devs.
You didn't change your stance on KV until after it had been made known that it's already been changed on the preview server at which point you started trolling someone over comments they made before that change was known.
Now, in my very first post, I only said two things that you could have considered insulting. I said that you were trolling, which I'm not going to explain again how you were trolling. I already wrote a whole paragraph explaining it that you've already quoted.
I also said that if you're having trouble with TRs on a GF that you're either a bad PvPer or have not PvPed on a GF since M4. Now, if you want to take that as an insult, that's your right. That does not change the fact that no GF has any business complaining about a TR that's equally geared in M4. A GF that lands their prone can kill a TR in one rotation right now. There's a guy in another thread saying he's killed toons with more HP than a TR in one rotation on a 14k GF. If a GF in M4 is a free kill for an equally geared TR, they either need to learn how to play their class or pick a new one. Being angry about that doesn't change it.
If you don't want people calling you on your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, don't sling any. Aside from calling you on trolling someone else and saying you need to step up your game on a GF, I think I remained somewhat polite to you until I got sick of your comments so, yeah. I insulted you. You earned it. I'm not asking for an apology and, I don't want one but, at least own up to your behavior. From the moment someone disagreed with you, you have done nothing but insult people so, you don't get to point fingers and say someone else started it.
Seriously. Go back and reread all of the comments you've made in this thread in an objective manner. I think it'll be pretty eye opening for you.
I see you went and rewrote your last post. Trying to make yourself look better after the nerdrage you had that resulted in the mess you posted?
I never said GFs are OP. My stance has not changed at all during this entire discussion and that opinion was that KV needs to be adjusted and that you've been trolling. That's it.
As I said earlier in this thread, not QQing. I'm calling you on your bull <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
I don't know if I'd call ITC a high reward. It's definitely helpful as a get out of jail free card when someone hits you with a CC but, if you don't kill them in the next 4 seconds, you're pretty much screwed if they have more than one CC and, I don't have a bias. I'm simply realize that something that benefits one person for 4 seconds is not as powerful an ability as something that can reduce the damage 4 people take by half. In fact, you seem to be the only person in this whole thread that thinks ITC is so much more powerful than KV. I'm not even going to comment on being accused of a class bias considering who it's coming from.
I see how you keep saying you used to play a TR. Do you not play it anymore and, are you really trying to say that these two classes are evenly balanced simply because a TR can out DPS a GF? You must think that HRs are supremely overpowered in comparison to a GF, huh? Oh wait. That's what your main is. Nah... HRs aren't OP at all then. They should probably be buffed.
I said that other classes are faster than GFs and explained why they don't need to move as fast as other classes. How are you able to even type a coherent sentence with such a low level of comprehension or, are you confusing me with matt44444? Yeah... see, that's not me. If it was, it would have had my name next to the post instead of matt's. You must not be aware that there's already perma sprint GWFs in game and, I wouldn't be surprised if we end up seeing perma sprint SWs too.
Again, I wasn't QQing. I was calling you on your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. You must be extremely reactionary and excitable if you can't even understand that the people you've been arguing with have been saying the same things that the GFs you agree with have been saying. Do you just have some insane fear that anyone that isn't playing the same class as you that weighs in on the balance of that class just wants you to be weak so you're an easy kill?
That's what I've been doing as well. That you don't seem to understand that and lash out with blatant irrational hostility towards anyone commenting that doesn't play a GF really does suggest that you have some absurd fear that everyone wants you to be weak so you're an easy kill.
Go to youtube and look it up yourself. There's videos there for you to see and, at this point I see no reason to do you any favors.
You didn't show anything. Are you delusional in addition to all the other issues you've displayed in this thread? Currently, yeah. It is OP. Once it's fixed, I'll stop saying it's OP. Maybe that's what you don't understand so, I'll repeat it once more for you since you really seem to need it said repeatedly before it'll sink in.
I don't think the power should be done away with all together or nerfed to the point of uselessness but, it definitely needed an adjustment and, you've done nothing at all to defend it unless you count ranting about another class as defending the one you seem to prefer. I'm honestly amazed that we've even been having this conversation considering that you don't seem to be able to grasp something that simple.
Picked more for what? Dungeons? You didn't say that to me. All you're currently doing is showing that you're so quick to nerd rage and go on rants towards anyone that says anything suggesting that a GF might need to have an ability adjusted that you can't even tell who it is you're yelling at.
Once again, you're full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> because your arguments on this topic have been all over the map and you're going to have to specify if you're talking about ITC, perma stealth or, just TRs in general as you've gone on an insane rant about all three at one point or another.
If you really think this, you must not know the class as well as you think you do. All a GF needs to do to get a nice damage boost is land a prone. Once that happens, nothing they do can be deflected. They don't need to have a dedicated DPS build to be able to do some pretty good damage.
If you really think this then, point out one single thing TRs do as well as or better than other classes besides not getting hit when they're in stealth because, if that's all you can think of, then that would suggest that all TRs should be perma stealth which seems to be something you don't want. I think TRs are fun as hell but, with the exception of a perma stealth TR for back capping in PvP, I would rather have any other class on a team with me. CWs are better at CC snd DPSing. HRs and SWs are better at DPSing and have better survivability thanks to their range. GWFs are just as good, if not better, at DPSing, have more survivability, and offer agro management. DCs can heal and debuff. GFs have way more survivability and offer agro management. Given all that, why on Earth would I want a TR on my team?
That's almost double the range of the max distance any of the ranged classes can attack from and, that's not what it's being nerfed from. That's what it's being nerfed to. There is no legit reason for a GF to need KV to extend farther than that. They sure as hell don't need it to have infinite range and ignore LoS and that has been my only issue with KV so, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. With how KV currently works, a GF could just sit at the entrance to a dungeon with block going and drinking potions with KV on while all the DPSers run through killing everything and there'd be no real risk to the GF at all. How's that for no risk/high reward?
Move a little? If I have to go from one end of a map to another to do something about the KV that's helping the person I'm fighting where I currently am while I'm playing a melee toon, that's not moving a little. That's crossing the whole **** map. That's what I've wanted adjusted. If a DC could sit at the campfire and spam heals to the entire rest of their team regardless of where on the map they are, people would be saying that needs to be nerfed. That's basically what's currently going on with GFs which is why people have been asking for KV to be adjusted and, there's no need to say, 'Well it's getting changed so why are you QQing?' because I'm not QQing. I'm explaining something to someone that seems to have some serious comprehension issues. I also never said anything about a ranged DPS not being able to reach a GF. I said that if a GF is on a node and being attacked by range that they shouldn't have to worry about running after the ranged attacker because the ranged attackers on the GF's team should be going after them while being protected by KV. You know... using that team play that you've been highlighting as validation of KV?
And this is what I mean. You are literally arguing for the sake of arguing.
Let's run down your line of bs again(for the what seems like millionth time :rolleyes:), shall we? Btw, before we begin, I'm not on my comp anymore, but my phone, so instead of addressing every piece of your bs individually, I decided to write 1 general response. Sorry, just shut down your attempted troll right there.
1)no GFs are saying it's currently working as intended. Any arguing about it not WAI is a moot point, as everything(LoS, range, proccing dragon glyphs) has been introduced. You're just arguing to argue when EVERYONE agrees that those points are broken, so QQing about "all a GF has to do is sit at dungeon entrance, and hold block" is not only pointless, but continuously proving you're the troll here.
2)addressing that for all your(yes, lumping you in with the QQers you're defending) complaints about how the GF can mitigate 80% of their damage, while being bias in the fact that with the new block, THEYRE ALWAYS TAKING DAMAGE. If in nerd raging about your bias, so be it. I'll take that hit with honors.
3)once again, you're statement of "if I have to go from one end of a map to another to do something about KV" is, once again, you're arguing just to argue. As 150' is NOT that far(roughly 6 TR dashes, I've tried it ), is not far for a class with roughly 80' range reach.
4)I'm not even going to repost what you said about ranged dps not reaching GF now. You can't read YOUR OWN WORDS, let alone what someone else is trying to tell you.
5)so, now I've got to explain what a TR does now too? For people who supposedly play the game, I have to become the official neverwinter wiki for you?! Sigh... Here goes:
The TR is a short burst dps class with weak armor. Their stealth is their defense, allowing them to strike from the shadows, killing their enemies while trying not to become vulnerable themselves. Stealth(their class mechanic) plays a big role in their builds, and enemies caught unawares are either hard pressed to find them, or escape before death. They have daze powers, high crit, pretty high deflect(if geared/built that way), and can prolong their stealth through gear/feats/powers.
6)by the way, nice try on your ranger quip. Pvp offers too high tankiness, and they ALREADY had high dps. Plus, piercing blade is currently OP. Nice try on that piece of bs .
7)already explained why a TR was picked more in the past. Technically, as needs to be explained to you, CWs are the most picked class for a reason. Superior dps and cc than EVERYONE else. If you've played, you should know this. Moving on...
8)what you're not comprehending(and myself and others are already stating) is that in a team based game, you can't tell me that your team WONT coordinate? I'm sorry, but anyone should know how to prioritize targets. Is it really so hard, say if you see your enemy has KV activated somewhere(once again, with proper LoS and range fix) to hunt down that GF and take him down? He's already taking damage for his teammates, so he has to switch off to confront you, or take at least 2 sources of damage now.
9)do you know WHY a melee class has prones? This is where I get that you don't play that often(if at all): generally, the ranged classes have better mobility(not to mention start the fight BEFORE you reach them). A melee needs ways to stop them, do they not? In fairness, ranged classes need equal ways to stall melees too right?(although GWFs had too many. That's why prones like FLS got changed to stuns)
10)I've had to go in depth, as you trolls seriously think all either class has is one encounter, so I bring up their powers in total, because someone obviously needs to be fair by comparing EVERYTHING, not 1 thing on a class(GF here) that TRs that don't play at all are QQing about. I haven't been "all over the place" I've just had to explain the totality of their class to someone who's cherry picking 1 OP thing they do(that's, once again, getting fixed :rolleyes: ).
11)if you're not QQing, you're defending the QQer. Once again, you can say "I'm not the one QQing all you want". If you fanatically defending the actual ones QQing, that puts you in the same boat. Not to mention YOUR nerd raging is just YOUR troll attempt, as you're clearly a)arguing just to hear yourself argue, b)arguing AGAINST people who agree with you(see point A).
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Nice try on the cherry picking, but if you go back to page 5, and READ the last lines of my post, I said "ask for balance, don't QQ for nerf". If you're going to cherry pick, at least cherry pick where I can't undo your obvious troll by pointing out what I said.
"Asking for balance" was me addressing that I know it isn't WAI. Asking "don't QQ nerf" was me asking(albeit sarcastically) to address complaints about the power, not what's making it broken.
Now, why don't YOU read YOUR posts, and shadowbunslice's. You'll see tons of insults, raging, and clear bias AGAINST GFs. While I returned in kind, it was in response to YOUR raging. Read how YOU posted, read how he posted, then tell me that you're NOT tha kid who starts fights, then QQ'es about being insulted?
If you want to rage cuz I called YOU on YOUR <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, don't post <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. You need to take your own advice. When I was done with that guys' trolling, and wanted to stop, YOU chimed in with YOUR insults. You didn't come in here to save the day. You came in on the troll bandwagon, and now YOURE all butthurt cuz I responded to you like I responded to the original troll.
EDIT: P.S. You say you've seen TRs in thread say GFs are hard. I've ALSO been in threads with TRs who admit that GFs are easy targets. The difference being that I'll at least believe both posters. That's their opinion, and who knows? Maybe one's doing something the other isn't. But at least I'm willing to believe either. You don't agree with opinions that oppose yours. THATS bias.
P.P.S. Also looked on youtube for "GF solos epic dungeons". Haven't found any...
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
How about we just remove that damned glyph completely until something resembling balance is managed with it?
+1 to this. The glyphs are seriously bad right now. Things that proc too often seem to be the biggest complaint(at least amongst the smart ones ) right now.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
I understand perfectly. You're cognitively impaired and I have a compulsion to try to fix stupid. Oh, don't bother responding to that comment either. Yes, I'm aware I called you dumb once more. I also have a very good idea of what you'll say in response to it. Yes, you're that predictable at this point.
1)Once again, as you're reading impaired, NOT A SINGLE GF IN HERE HAS SAID THAT ITS CURRENTLY WAI. When the people you're raging against are agreeing with you, why are you STILL QQing. That denotes bias in your statements, or at least trolling when you're arguing just to argue.
Actually, here's a list of people that were defending KV in this thread.
crixus8000, daggon87, rabbinicus, izidius, almondum, rheepark, thestaggy, and you.
That's just in the first couple pages. I stopped bothering to look further once I got to your post. So, what was that about no GFs defending the way KV currently works in game? Now, I'll grant that some GFs did change their stance once they realized that KV still reduces the damage of their teammates even beyond the range that the GF takes damage from but, even after you became aware of that, you still kept at it with other people, even though those people were saying essentially the same thing you're saying now and it's apparently because they don't play a GF.
2)I explained that stunning a gf stops KV. I'm sorry, I forgot you couldn't read, so I guess I now have to explain that KILLING the GF also stops the effect. It should've been obvious that the best way to stop a tank is by disabling/destroying it(I guess damage isn't a thing in a dps game :rolleyes:).
Oh, I read that and understood it as well. I had no issue with that. My complaint about KV has basically been the same thing that you changed your stance to once you found out that the devs are fixing KV. It's just that I don't play a GF and you're extremely class biased. The only reason we're still arguing is because you are extremely lacking in comprehension and critical thinking skills and I have a compulsion to try to fix stupid.
3)Once again, not only read the thread name, but the posts of the offensive members in the thread. "GFs Knights Valor is destroying PvP" is an OBVIOUS nerf QQ. My bad for lumping you in with people YOURE SO FANATICALLY DEFENDING.
The people that have been complaining about KV, or QQing as you like to call it when it's anyone other than a GF weighing in, have been complaining because it has infinite range, ignores LoS and, once the teammate is out of the range that KV is supposed to have, the GF stops taking damage even though the teammate keeps getting the benefit of KV. Even you seem to agree that KV should not work as it currently does in game but, due to your extreme class bias, you fight tooth and nail against anything said by anyone that doesn't play a GF. If the information being given is accurate, what class the person giving that information plays is irrelevant. If you found and reported a bug involving a class that you don't play and reported it, I wouldn't tell you that your opinion on the matter carries no weight. If it turned out that your information was accurate, I would agree with you. You're just not capable of doing that because you're hellbent on "defending the GFs against the QQers".
4)and for someone PRETENDING to not be bias in this discussion, I'll try to explain this as bluntly as possible. I'll doubt you'll get it though... Not only are GFs fine with the fix to it, but have posted exactly HOW the devs are fixing it. You're literally arguing just to troll, continuously proving my "arguing for the sake if arguing" statement.
Actually, as I pointed out earlier in this post, some GFs that were commenting in this thread were not okay with the idea of KV being adjusted. They wanted it kept as is. One person said they may as well delete the class if they're going to adjust KV. You said that they need to get rid of ITC if they're going to adjust KV and don't even try to say that you weren't trying to troll when you said that. It's so clear that you were. Also. Pot. Kettle. Black.
5)you started throwing insults at me from the moment I dealt with your fellow troll. You're literally QQing that I insulted you, because I responded to your insults. Seriously? Also, claiming someone's stupid(btw, what YOU did first I might add) is clearly a troll insult, and while I guess I'm wrong for returning in kind, was also only in response to you. You're like that kid in school who hits a kid, that kid hits back, and you QQ to the teacher.
You really should go back and reread your posts. If you can't handle the thought that you're bad at PvPing on a GF because you can't beat a TR, that's your problem. Like I said, step up your game. Unless there's a large GS imbalance, I would put my money on a GF every time when matched up against a TR in mod 4. You were also clearly trolling other people simply because they don't play GFs. Even you said that you shouldn't have made comments that you made earlier in this thread. Calling you out on that isn't insulting you. You on the other hand, can not make a single post where you're disagreeing with someone without insulting their intelligence so... You can take those fingers you're so eager to point and cram them.
6)BLOCK is the GFs class mechanic. Comparing it to ITC shows your continuing bias in the matter. THATS why it should've been compared to stealth, like someone did(hmm wonder who made that fair comparison, instead of being bias by comparing it to something that shouldn't have been compared?(ie block vs ITC) :rolleyes:).
Comparing ITC to block makes about as much sense as comparing ITC to KV or comparing ITC to something like Ray of Frost. If you really wanted to do a critical analysis of ITC, you should have been comparing it to something like Unstoppable which is much closer in form and function but, we both know that what was really going on was that you were desperate to derail to get attention off of KV and a comparison of ITC vs Unstoppable would have had no pertinence in this thread. There's also the fact that the person you were saying it to mains on a TR and you were going for emotional investment in the hopes of getting them to quit talking about KV.
Don't YOU get it? I'll make a simple statement, that should end this back and forth bs:
"GFs are even admitting that it's not WAI, and continuously insulting GFs point of view, or complaining about a power that WILL be fixed, is obviously trolling".
Some have admitted that it's not WAI and, I haven't argued with them at all. You, however, were initially defending KV as it currently is in game and, once you found out that it's somewhat broken, decided to troll people that don't play GFs for having an opinion on the matter.
For example, GWFs roar was NOT WAI, but do you know how many people QQed AFTER the devs stated that they're fixing it? See what you're doing here? You're not only beating a dead horse, you're beyond that. You're beating a horse AFTER it's going to get better. Who insults and beats someone for something a) they have no control over, and b) is getting fixed?
Actually, no. I was contesting your assertion that ITC needs to be removed from the game and was calling you out on trolling. I'm largely content with the intended changes being made to KV. I've actually said multiple times now in big bold letters, specifically to you, that I never wanted KV removed from the game or nerfed to the point of uselessness. I only thought that it needed the range reduced from infinite and that it needed to require LoS. You just don't seem to be willing to acknowledge that because I don't play a GF. Hence, you have an extreme class bias.
Nice try on the cherry picking, but if you go back to page 5, and READ the last lines of my post, I said "ask for balance, don't QQ for nerf". If you're going to cherry pick, at least cherry pick where I can't undo your obvious troll by pointing out what I said.
I'm fully aware of what you said. You also said this.
+1 to this . I can't believe that people are literally QQing about a class doing what it's supposed to do. What next? QQing about a DC healing? Oh wait...
That's from the exact same post. Are you honestly going to attempt to say that you were not defending KV as it currently is in game when you said that? If so, I'm going to have to call you a liar, and a bad one at that.
"Asking for balance" was me addressing that I know it isn't WAI. Asking "don't QQ nerf" was me asking(albeit sarcastically) to address complaints about the power, not what's making it broken.
What's broken about KV is that it has infinite range, doesn't require LoS, and that the GF takes no damage from it once the teammate is beyond a certain range even though that teammate still gets the reduction in damage so, at this point in time, asking for balance or a 'QQ nerf' are one and the same. How do you not understand this? If you're referring to the dragon glyphs, those needed tuning too but, that doesn't mean that how KV currently is in game is fine. It just means that using dragon glyphs makes the current problems with KV much more noticeable.
Now, why don't YOU read YOUR posts, and shadowbunslice's. You'll see tons of insults, raging, and clear bias AGAINST GFs. While I returned in kind, it was in response to YOUR raging. Read how YOU posted, read how he posted, then tell me that you're NOT tha kid who starts fights, then QQ'es about being insulted?
I have read them. Multiple times. They were accusing you of defending a broken power as well as being biased against anyone that doesn't play a GF and, you know what? You were. As far as me insulting you goes, you were clearly trolling. We both know this. If you think that GFs as a class are easy kills for TRs as a class in mod 4, you're bad at PvPing on a GF. That's just all there is too it. You might as well try to say that GFs as a class are easy kills for all other classes. Saying that I have a bias against GFs is laughable. My only point of contention has been the way KV currently works in game and refuting your bull <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> claims and, they are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Everyone that comments on these forums knows that TRs have been nerfed to hell and back. Even the devs have acknowledged that they swung the nerf bat too hard at TRs yet, here you were in this thread, screaming your head off about how OP a TR's abilities are and how that class needs to be nerfed even more because you were desperate to defend how KV currently is in game and that's the class the person you were yelling at plays.
If you want to rage cuz I called YOU on YOUR <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, don't post <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. You need to take your own advice. When I was done with that guys' trolling, and wanted to stop, YOU chimed in with YOUR insults. You didn't come in here to save the day. You came in on the troll bandwagon, and now YOURE all butthurt cuz I responded to you like I responded to the original troll.
Nope. Not raging. I'm sure you're heartbroken. Once again, I'm calling you on your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and the only reason we're still arguing is because you have some pretty strong dissonance going on and I have a compulsion to fix stupid. You can go ahead and call me a troll all you want. As I said before, that word seems to mean anyone that disagrees, to you so, I'll wear that label since I disagree with a lot of what you've said in this thread.
EDIT: P.S. You say you've seen TRs in thread say GFs are hard. I've ALSO been in threads with TRs who admit that GFs are easy targets. The difference being that I'll at least believe both posters. That's their opinion, and who knows? Maybe one's doing something the other isn't. But at least I'm willing to believe either. You don't agree with opinions that oppose yours. THATS bias.
I'm inclined to think you're a liar if you're talking about TRs talking about post mod 4. I don't always comment but, I look over these forums a lot and, have yet to come across any TR saying that GFs are easy kills since mod 4 came out. I'm also always open to the possibility that I'm wrong. I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm infallible. I also have no bias regarding the source of a given piece of information. My only concern is how factual it is.
But, and here's where the reading kicks in, there are too many offended players who aren't saying it directly, but want KV GONE. Once again, the very thread name is basically an OBVIOUS nerf QQ. You're defending THOSE people.
I am not one of those people. I have made my view on the matter very clear so many times now that I refuse to repeat it anymore. Any further attempts by you to imply otherwise only highlight that you do not even understand what's being said to you. Out of all the people that have posted in this thread, only one person has said KV shouldn't work in PvP and, if they were still commenting, I'd be arguing with them too. Do you get it yet?
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: This power now has a maximum range of 150' and requires line of sight to affect an ally.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: While this power is toggled on and the Guardian Fighter loses targeting of all allies, the visual effect now pulses to warn the player that no allies are affected.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: This power now has a maximum range of 150' and requires line of sight to affect an ally.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: While this power is toggled on and the Guardian Fighter loses targeting of all allies, the visual effect now pulses to warn the player that no allies are affected.
Here we go
This has been known since the 29th as shown here. So, I'm not entirely sure why this thread has been open for as long as it has been .
don't understand why you continue to riddle this thread with hidden hate towards GFs. But hey, im not here to win any awards for fighting 2 trolls simultaneously.
Out of all the posters in this thread, only 2 seemed toxic to the very essence of KV, whether AFTER its fixed or not.
Ill give you a clue, theyre not the ones you mentioned earlier. Theyre shadowbunslice and YOU.
Do YOU get it?
Once again, as your reading comprehension seems limited, no one, NO ONE is in disagreement at this point that KV WAS WAI(getting fixed today. and im sure youre STILL going to come on here and QQ obviously).
The other posters posted things like its LoS, range, and other powers working with it NOT WAI. Those posters, such as crixus8000, daggon87, rabbinicus, izidius, almondum, rheepark, thestaggy, aren't defending KV. Were defending the power once as it functions CORRECTLY. NOT ONCE did any of the above posters(myself included) say that "a GF standing in spawn taking no damage, causing his team to take half damage" is WAI. Not once did we say that "a GF sitting behind a wall should protect his teammates".
Do YOU get it? Ill use the obviously bias phrase you seem to keep bringing up, as it constantly denotes your own bias in the matter:
Which, at this point, it's pretty clear that you are.
Now, as far as comparing ITC to unstoppable or block, further(once again, :rolleyes: ) denotes your idiocy in the statement. A class mechanic can NOT be compared to a single power, as powers a)have cooldowns, b)have some feats dedicated to them, but not gear/tactics centered around a single power. 1 power DOES NOT make the class. But class mechanics make the class, don't they?
As far as your pathetic, cognitively impaired troll on "not declaring KV OP", ill say this again. Very slowly for you, seeing as reading beyond your own words escapes you, as do others words spelled out for you. YOU...DEFENDED...A...TROLL...WHO...DID...WANT...KV...GONE...NOT...TO...MENTION...TRY...TO...CONTINUOUSLY...TROLL...SOMEONE...WHO...DEBUNKED...HIS...STATEMENT. Do YOU get it?
Once again, I know not every GF is happy to see it changed like this. But look at your statements. If im seriously at fault for not jumping on every QQ'er in this thread QQing about KV, are YOU AT FAULT FOR DEFENDING THE QQ'ERS THAT ARE QQING FOR KV TO BE NERFED, NOT BALANCED? Youre jumping on me for not doing what im supposedly doing "showing extreme class bias" as im supporting members in this thread that ARENT as ridiculous as you 2! Look at the posts: 1 was a little sarcastic, but once again, only 2 posters have seemed pretty toxic to GFs in general(guess who ), and I addressed them both directly.
Im beginning to think youre a liar when you've talked about this game. Mod4 is just recently out, and this is the first time anyone really needs a GF for anything other than kiting. "Tanking" has been an unused playstyle from beta to mod3. Dps(you know, that thing TRs have been at least WAY better than GFs at, up until around mod3(a rough estimate. I don't try to bs like you)) however, has been a necessary requirement for any class to do dungeons. That, and control. Now I have to explain to you this simple thing that most new players know by now? Really?!
I see youre trying to cherry pick again, and it will fail AGAIN :rolleyes:
"+1 to this . I can't believe that people are literally QQing about a class doing what it's supposed to do. What next? QQing about a DC healing? Oh wait..."
Let me call you on your bs AGAIN. I was referring to the tactic of "GF defense mechanics" being complained about. Once again, with your selective reading, I didn't think id have to say clearly what I was defending. But then again, from a bias poster like yourself, i might have to be a little clearer to someone clearly just cherry picking arguments to try to puff up how much of a troll he really is. So ill state this again for the cognitive impaired, but in a manner a 4th grader can understand. Maybe youll get it this time.
"+1 to this. I cant believe that people are literally QQing about a class using defensive powers if theyre WAI(ive stated the "if theyre WAI" part several times, but i didn't think id have to insert it into a statement, after everyone but you( :rolleyes: ) knew what i meant...
In summary, youre STILL just arguing to hear yourself argue. Out of all the people ive talked to in this thread, only 2 seem fit to CONTINUOUSLY THROW A FIT ABOUT A POWER THAT NOT ONLY NEARLY EVERYONE AGREES ISNT WAI, BUT HAVE EVEN BEEN SHOWN HOW ITS GOING TO BE FIXED, BY FELLOW GFS
Im done stating what should've been a single reasonable post. You didn't need to be butthurt about my opinion, you didn't need to obviously try to troll me by blaming ME for YOUR misreading, and YOU didn't need to defend the only person i had a problem with(until you obviously jumped on the troll bandwagon, making you the 2nd person in this WHOLE thread ive had a problem with).
Do YOU get it? Youre not only trolling here, youre trying to sound like youre the awesome debater, when nobody is against what youre so vehement about being "your only complaint". Once again, as youre reading skills are lacking, "Why QQ about a debate when EVERYONE is in agreement with you".
I was ONLY addressing the QQ'ers that are so offended by the power in the first place. Read the forums title: GF's Knights Valor is Destroying PvP". That, my cognitively impaired friend, is an obvious QQ nerf thread title. The title is not "GF's Knights Valor is not WAI in PvP, suggestions to fix?(or please fix?. or look at it please?)".
And that's why i bring up other powers. In the hope that a simple comparison would reach your limited capacity. Like Roar. How many QQ threads were started AFTER devs said itd be fixed? The wait for a power to be fixed might've been long, but is over QQing about it really helping? Or, as in the case of KV here, is QQing about something when EVERYONE(excuse me, the single guy you say i should jump, and leave your troll buddy alone about) agrees isn't WAI, just hiding something more. When youre STILL arguing, with no one arguing against you, what else can you be doing but arguing just to argue?
Which, at this point, it's pretty clear that you are.
If you simply stated "hey youre being offensive to TRs" i could've simply said something like "oh, my bad. wasn't trying to be, but i was only comparing their differences, and what makes them OP in other people's eyes". No, you went on a long rant trying to troll me with statements like "any other view and youre clearly trolling"(which, by the way, is clearly a trolling statement itself), and continuously posting the same "KV is not WAI" despite others not only saying those words(myself included) in total agreement, but also BEFORE YOU EVEN ENTERED THE THREAD!
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
This has been known since the 29th as shown here. So, I'm not entirely sure why this thread has been open for as long as it has been .
Youre right, and i apologize to you guys. I clearly let these 2 trolls get to me...
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: This power now has a maximum range of 150' and requires line of sight to affect an ally.
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: While this power is toggled on and the Guardian Fighter loses targeting of all allies, the visual effect now pulses to warn the player that no allies are affected.
Here we go
Its been posted, several times, by myself and others. Its not going to stop the QQing. it didn't stop them before...
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
LOL Yeah. I get it. I'm not gonna repeat myself again since I've said it so many times that you should have figured it out by now but, I'm not surprised at this point considering that you aren't even capable of understanding anything that's said to you and just keep trying to throw back everything that's said at you. It's actually amusing the way you seem to be kind of a parrot. I mean, when you first joined this thread, all you really seemed capable of doing is saying that people were QQing and then screaming for TRs to be nerfed. Now you're using multisyllabic nomenclature. Maybe some day you'll even understand what that means which, I do hope because, as I've said, I have a compulsion to fix stupid and you are a huge project. It is genuinely amusing to watch you try to insult me with words that I'm not even sure you understand, given that you didn't use anything along the lines of them until they were posted by me and, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. My advice is that, in the future, you try to actually understand what's being said to you instead of simply raging at the fact that there's words on your screen. It's a computer. You're going to come across that a lot. Good luck with PvPing as well. Based on what you've said in here, I can't help thinking you'll need it.
Yea, I get it. I'm done repeating myself, as simple monosyllabic statements escape you, the gravity of your own words escape you, and even discussions on your side escape you. I have a weakness for arguing against stupid, and sir, you take the cake.
For the final time, I'll lay all your stupidity out for you:
STILL arguing just to hear yourself argue? Check.
Throwing insults, while QQing about being insulted DESPITE the fact you started the insults? Check.
Trying to pretend youre smart, by being dumb as heck? Check.
Fanatically defending your fellow troll, then saying anyone who disagrees with his/your statements are trolls? Check.
CONTINUOUSLY proving my point about your never ending stupidity? Check.
Cherry picking my statements, just because you're the 1 guy in here who doesn't seem to understand them? Check.
STILL QQing about KV in a thread AFTER the power in question is fixed(as I predicted, might I add)? Check.
Failing to understand the stupidity involved when you're QQing about something no one's in disagreement about? Check.
Throwing nerd rage to hide your TR fanaticism, and hidden GF bashing? Check.
Do you get it yet?
I guess I'm at fault for trying to be patient. I try to understand someone's stupidity, or the fallacy in an argument. But you cant, no you WONT listen to anything you or anyone else is saying. At first your insults looked like you were nothing more than a troll, until it was too late to realize, that you're so stupid you're trolling yourself.
Even George Bush Jr, America's dumbest president, would've realized "Oh! They're agreeing with me!" That's how stupid you are: you make HIM look smart. Even the GOP/Tea Party/Fox News would've stopped by now if I used phrases like "it's Obama's fault" by now. But you're past that. If stupidity can't be fixed, then you're hopeless.
P.S. It's also clearly hilarious how you're trying to pretend youre intelligent, when you've misunderstood the simplest sentences thrown at you. I thought it was an oversight in your troll logic, and called you on your bs. But too late i realized that you can't even understand your own words, let alone anyone else's. You're literally trolling yourself in your own stupidity.
Anyway, I'm done. Unlike you, I will not be stupid enough to nerd rage in a thread that's clearly irrelevant now, let alone argue with someone who clearly can't understand himself, let alone others.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Actually, here's a list of people that were defending KV in this thread.
crixus8000, daggon87, rabbinicus, izidius, almondum, rheepark, thestaggy, and you.
My concerns had more to do with its PVE utility, as PVP-centered nerfs are known to completely ruin PVE viability. Just go ask a TR for confirmation.
And aside from that, the GF sacrifices his own defences when protecting his party. I fought a few GFs in PVP that were running the Iron Warrior + KV protection build and I thrashed them because they could not fight back. The KV GF in PVP was no different to a DC; an irritation when with 1 or more teammates but get it by itself and it dies fast.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
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ryoshinetteMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 488Arc User
edited September 2014
After last update, KV acts on players even, if they are not in party.
Is it planned change of this power, or just another bug. Any info?
After last update, KV acts on players even, if they are not in party.
Is it planned change of this power, or just another bug. Any info?
I think it works the same way as most DC powers now such as hollowed ground, divine armor, astral shield etc., they affect every nearby ally even if they are not in your party.
I think it was the only way to decrease it's range without much coding. I'm not sure if it's good, in GG you can cover huge area and protect many players at once, but you probably won't want to shield all players at large HEs such as Beholder.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
This ability is actually a supernatural-like ability, which a D&D fighter should not have. I don't understand why the implementation of melee classes in the game are so removed from D&D. And I doubt the implementer has played a D&D game before.
My concerns had more to do with its PVE utility, as PVP-centered nerfs are known to completely ruin PVE viability. Just go ask a TR for confirmation.
And aside from that, the GF sacrifices his own defences when protecting his party. I fought a few GFs in PVP that were running the Iron Warrior + KV protection build and I thrashed them because they could not fight back. The KV GF in PVP was no different to a DC; an irritation when with 1 or more teammates but get it by itself and it dies fast.
That's definitely a legit concern that I can sympathize with but, I think the changes being made are more than fair. Assuming the range they've listed is radius, that's an area large enough for two ranged people to attack the same thing from their maximum range while standing on opposite sides of the target they're attacking while still both being protected by KV and they'd both still be able to go out another 60' before having to worry about losing protection from KV. That gives them plenty of play room for things like dodging if they have to and it means that they're not going to end up out of the GF's range if that person needs to do some maneuvering.
I have never managed to catch a KV GF by themselves. I do a lot of back capping so, I usually find out that the other team has a GF running KV when someone comes to stop me from taking their node and I only do half damage to them.
I'll readily admit that GFs needed a buff since it seemed like all that a lot of them could do in M3 was stand on a node to contest it and get beat on in the hopes that other members of their team showed up before they were killed and, they still might not be too much trouble for ranged classes but, if you're melee, they are nothing to sneeze at anymore. I prefer to PvP on a TR and GFs are more difficult to face 1 on 1 now and, I'm okay with that. Like I said earlier, they're the rock to the TR's scissors. It shouldn't be a forgone conclusion that the GF will win but, they should be hard for TRs to beat, just like some other classes should be hard for GFs. I think a large part of the problem with balancing the classes on this game is that a lot of people want the classes to be balanced so that, assuming gear is equal, everyone has an equal chance of beating anyone else regardless of the classes being used and, this game isn't meant for 1 on 1 PvP If it was, we'd have a duel function.
This ability is actually a supernatural-like ability, which a D&D fighter should not have. I don't understand why the implementation of melee classes in the game are so removed from D&D. And I doubt the implementer has played a D&D game before.
You're probably right. Most of the people that originally worked for Cryptic were fans of the Champions PnP. All the signature characters in City of Heroes were the PnP characters of the devs that made it.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
This ability is actually a supernatural-like ability, which a D&D fighter should not have. I don't understand why the implementation of melee classes in the game are so removed from D&D. And I doubt the implementer has played a D&D game before.
Lets see other mmos.
They have the so called tank hou can deal high single target dmg and do some reflect dmg and he have the so called ability UD= Ultimate Defense . In UD he is absolutly immune to any dmg .
Also he have instant taunt agro the boss only focus or add fest on him. Also he have the biggest HP pool.
Also in other mmos the tank is the hardest to kill class.
In nw we dont have any of this .
Hardest to kill class HR.
Taunt have no class in NW.
UD have TR .
Best sinle target CW.
The only 1 left the biggest HP pool yes GF have this .
Now why he need KV to be usefull .
Simple solution is to ask this to prevent future PVE nerfs:
Remove KV from pvp& keep it for pve.
Not even one good pvp GF will miss it belive me , but pve GFs will miss it .
I meant i used it on PvP IWD, not on the encounters, just on the PvP red zone... and trust me, do a Mother Lode with this on + Briartwine or blue dragon glyph, you will lol for sure. I did.
Briar deal 20-120 dmg i had perfect sold it for 2 p.bark.
Blue dragon is easy to counter use green have more hp then the other GF and use SS the he will be dead in 2 sec and he will never use this cheat enchant agan after you killed it 9 times in row.
They have the so called tank hou can deal high single target dmg and do some reflect dmg and he have the so called ability UD= Ultimate Defense . In UD he is absolutly immune to any dmg .
Also he have instant taunt agro the boss only focus or add fest on him. Also he have the biggest HP pool.
Also in other mmos the tank is the hardest to kill class.
In nw we dont have any of this .
Hardest to kill class HR.
Taunt have no class in NW.
UD have TR .
Best sinle target CW.
The only 1 left the biggest HP pool yes GF have this .
Now why he need KV to be usefull .
Simple solution is to ask this to prevent future PVE nerfs:
Remove KV from pvp& keep it for pve.
Not even one good pvp GF will miss it belive me , but pve GFs will miss it .
Run along troll, I don't have time to explain the entire game to you AGAIN(google mustve been really hard for you to use, I take it?).
Now, onto the actual, experienced players in here...
Knights Valor was always a risky move for your teammates. Pre-mod4, GFs learned to never use it in pvp, as the burst damage caused them to die. They rarely used it in pve as well, but with a smart and decent team(the ones not dumb enough to stand in aoes all the time) this was both a saving grace for your teammates, and an all around savior in dungeons where the squishy classes just could not stop taking damage. BUT their guard was also broken too easily. Now, they still take damage, but between it being mitigated and block being a timed thing more than a broken in seconds by dps thing, more GFs are actually happy to use it.
Ill tell you this: most GFs like the change to block, and most of the GFs that are complaining about it now are the ones who never understood its past unviability. In both PVE and PVP, it never really lasted long, not to mention you moved so slowly just to get where youre going. Now, you don't zoom, but at least move near normal speed. When the current dungeon meta involves zerging from fight to fight, the slow moving tank that couldn't hit for hard damage lost its utility. Now, theyre not as slow, can take more punishment(block and hp), and could afford to take more punishment because of it.
Now, I know its still not fixed to work right, but the devs WILL get it right. They were looking at other powers from the moment people started complaining about them.
And, unlike what a certain hidden agenda QQer is trying to hide( ), Balance DOES NOT mean that every class can beat another class with equal gear/skill. I really think it should be a "rock,paper,scissors" game, not a "rock,rock,scissors" game where to beat this guy, you need this guy, not "zerg the enemy by bringing the most OP classes in your team". Unluckily, the latter is what people are doing in both PVP AND PVE.
As for how it stands now, this is what happens when PvP affects PvE, and vice versa. Something tries to get buffed/nerfed for one, it breaks it on the other. I guess not many realize that there always will be a difference between the 2. Tbh, I ALWAYS thought that they should've reacted differently depending on what style you were playing.
Tenacity, for example, was an example of the devs trying to differentiate, as it only affected pvp, right?
But even then, that couldn't be a productive answer, could it? All of a sudden, complaints came in of burst classes like the CW not being able to kill within 1 rotation as much( TRs already hit hard before that), and at around the same time, a dps burst ranger class came into being. Guess who QQ'ed about HRs the most? Everyone enjoyed longevity but the CW apparently, so I see that part in the complaint.
Many people in this game learned the hard way that too much QQ broke the game even further, and paved the way for devs to fix the problem by "buffing" the QQ'ers. Now, we have a bunch of CWs killing by their procs more than their damage, and all but the smart ones don't know why.
Now, back on the GF. Knights Valor as it stands now, is still not WAI. I tested the range/LoS when they fixed it. Theyre fine for PvE. Dungeon boss rooms are pretty big, and whether kiting or just trying to give players some breathing room, there WILL be quite the area of space to deal with.
Unlike what that QQ baby is insinuating(he probably cant even understand this word anyway), I believe the best change is to shorten it to 80' in pvp only.
As I said before, before certain QQ babies got involved(shadowbunslice and arimakami), lets look for balance instead of nerf QQing. The OPer and these QQ babies are trying to derail the true reason the power's broken by trying to troll me with their stupidity. I only returned them in kind, bringing up their classes(and getting class fanatic QQing from them, might I add) when I bring up how balanced the TR used to be/kind of still is.
Speaking of the TR, they did not really need hurt that much, did they? I know the 1 shot age of them wasn't WAI, but at least bring back their burst damage somewhat? Me and other TRs are tired of permastealth, and WK would honestly see more viability if this was possible.
Lets get it all out: KV isn't WAI right now, but a LOT of the reason it still is, is because of the range(in pvp) and things like glyph proccing off them. I don't bring up the SS combo because a)having a little combo like that should be viable(right, TRs/HRs with fey thistle boon?) b)not nearly as devastating as the glyphs.
I implore the reasonable men/women of this thread to continue being constructive in here. Lets not break down into trolling others, cuz you don't personally like a playstyle/hate certain classes ( to 2 certain TRs).
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
edited September 2014
Now it no longer affects companions (good), but it affects all allies in range, even those who are not in party (too good).
In GG I was giving Knight's Valor to the whole raid. -.-
Comments
Drops mic...
Actually, YOU don't get.
1)Once again, as you're reading impaired, NOT A SINGLE GF IN HERE HAS SAID THAT ITS CURRENTLY WAI. When the people you're raging against are agreeing with you, why are you STILL QQing. That denotes bias in your statements, or at least trolling when you're arguing just to argue.
2)I explained that stunning a gf stops KV. I'm sorry, I forgot you couldn't read, so I guess I now have to explain that KILLING the GF also stops the effect. It should've been obvious that the best way to stop a tank is by disabling/destroying it(I guess damage isn't a thing in a dps game :rolleyes:).
3)Once again, not only read the thread name, but the posts of the offensive members in the thread. "GFs Knights Valor is destroying PvP" is an OBVIOUS nerf QQ. My bad for lumping you in with people YOURE SO FANATICALLY DEFENDING.
4)and for someone PRETENDING to not be bias in this discussion, I'll try to explain this as bluntly as possible. I'll doubt you'll get it though... Not only are GFs fine with the fix to it, but have posted exactly HOW the devs are fixing it. You're literally arguing just to troll, continuously proving my "arguing for the sake if arguing" statement.
5)you started throwing insults at me from the moment I dealt with your fellow troll. You're literally QQing that I insulted you, because I responded to your insults. Seriously? Also, claiming someone's stupid(btw, what YOU did first I might add) is clearly a troll insult, and while I guess I'm wrong for returning in kind, was also only in response to you. You're like that kid in school who hits a kid, that kid hits back, and you QQ to the teacher.
6)BLOCK is the GFs class mechanic. Comparing it to ITC shows your continuing bias in the matter. THATS why it should've been compared to stealth, like someone did(hmm wonder who made that fair comparison, instead of being bias by comparing it to something that shouldn't have been compared?(ie block vs ITC) :rolleyes:).
7)ITC has it's own OP qualities, as does KV. For an at least okay comparison, please read my last post on the "stealth vs block, ITC versus KV" post.
Don't YOU get it? I'll make a simple statement, that should end this back and forth bs:
"GFs are even admitting that it's not WAI, and continuously insulting GFs point of view, or complaining about a power that WILL be fixed, is obviously trolling".
For example, GWFs roar was NOT WAI, but do you know how many people QQed AFTER the devs stated that they're fixing it? See what you're doing here? You're not only beating a dead horse, you're beyond that. You're beating a horse AFTER it's going to get better. Who insults and beats someone for something a) they have no control over, and b) is getting fixed?
Now, as far as the insults go, if YOU didn't start them, we could've been civil in this thread.
What are we GFs supposed to think when you're STILL QQing about something were agreeing with you about? When were generally fine(don't see offended GFs in here) with the fixes being imposed? When everyone's in agreement, why are YOU still QQing/throwing insults?
Shoot, I think 80' should be a good range, but for PVP ONLY. And that's a guy with 2 different(1 pve, 1 pvp) GFs. The problem is, affecting 1 affects the other. Like someone said earlier, pvp QQing screws up pve, and vice versa. Look at the TR: considered too OP in beta, nerfed to hell cuz of pvp. Now, nobody wants them in pve much, EXCEPT to exploit their broken build(permastealth). I was completely fine with the old burst TR days, but not everyone was happy with a class that you couldn't see 1 shotting you. They may have needed toned down, but if someone made a thread stating they've been toned down too much, I'll hop on and defend that person's point.
As I said earlier in this thread, not QQing. I'm calling you on your bull <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
I don't know if I'd call ITC a high reward. It's definitely helpful as a get out of jail free card when someone hits you with a CC but, if you don't kill them in the next 4 seconds, you're pretty much screwed if they have more than one CC and, I don't have a bias. I'm simply realize that something that benefits one person for 4 seconds is not as powerful an ability as something that can reduce the damage 4 people take by half. In fact, you seem to be the only person in this whole thread that thinks ITC is so much more powerful than KV. I'm not even going to comment on being accused of a class bias considering who it's coming from.
I see how you keep saying you used to play a TR. Do you not play it anymore and, are you really trying to say that these two classes are evenly balanced simply because a TR can out DPS a GF? You must think that HRs are supremely overpowered in comparison to a GF, huh? Oh wait. That's what your main is. Nah... HRs aren't OP at all then. They should probably be buffed.
I said that other classes are faster than GFs and explained why they don't need to move as fast as other classes. How are you able to even type a coherent sentence with such a low level of comprehension or, are you confusing me with matt44444? Yeah... see, that's not me. If it was, it would have had my name next to the post instead of matt's. You must not be aware that there's already perma sprint GWFs in game and, I wouldn't be surprised if we end up seeing perma sprint SWs too.
Again, I wasn't QQing. I was calling you on your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. You must be extremely reactionary and excitable if you can't even understand that the people you've been arguing with have been saying the same things that the GFs you agree with have been saying. Do you just have some insane fear that anyone that isn't playing the same class as you that weighs in on the balance of that class just wants you to be weak so you're an easy kill?
That's what I've been doing as well. That you don't seem to understand that and lash out with blatant irrational hostility towards anyone commenting that doesn't play a GF really does suggest that you have some absurd fear that everyone wants you to be weak so you're an easy kill.
Go to youtube and look it up yourself. There's videos there for you to see and, at this point I see no reason to do you any favors.
You didn't show anything. Are you delusional in addition to all the other issues you've displayed in this thread? Currently, yeah. It is OP. Once it's fixed, I'll stop saying it's OP. Maybe that's what you don't understand so, I'll repeat it once more for you since you really seem to need it said repeatedly before it'll sink in.
I don't think the power should be done away with all together or nerfed to the point of uselessness but, it definitely needed an adjustment and, you've done nothing at all to defend it unless you count ranting about another class as defending the one you seem to prefer. I'm honestly amazed that we've even been having this conversation considering that you don't seem to be able to grasp something that simple.
Picked more for what? Dungeons? You didn't say that to me. All you're currently doing is showing that you're so quick to nerd rage and go on rants towards anyone that says anything suggesting that a GF might need to have an ability adjusted that you can't even tell who it is you're yelling at.
Once again, you're full of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> because your arguments on this topic have been all over the map and you're going to have to specify if you're talking about ITC, perma stealth or, just TRs in general as you've gone on an insane rant about all three at one point or another.
If you really think this, you must not know the class as well as you think you do. All a GF needs to do to get a nice damage boost is land a prone. Once that happens, nothing they do can be deflected. They don't need to have a dedicated DPS build to be able to do some pretty good damage.
If you really think this then, point out one single thing TRs do as well as or better than other classes besides not getting hit when they're in stealth because, if that's all you can think of, then that would suggest that all TRs should be perma stealth which seems to be something you don't want. I think TRs are fun as hell but, with the exception of a perma stealth TR for back capping in PvP, I would rather have any other class on a team with me. CWs are better at CC snd DPSing. HRs and SWs are better at DPSing and have better survivability thanks to their range. GWFs are just as good, if not better, at DPSing, have more survivability, and offer agro management. DCs can heal and debuff. GFs have way more survivability and offer agro management. Given all that, why on Earth would I want a TR on my team?
That's almost double the range of the max distance any of the ranged classes can attack from and, that's not what it's being nerfed from. That's what it's being nerfed to. There is no legit reason for a GF to need KV to extend farther than that. They sure as hell don't need it to have infinite range and ignore LoS and that has been my only issue with KV so, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. With how KV currently works, a GF could just sit at the entrance to a dungeon with block going and drinking potions with KV on while all the DPSers run through killing everything and there'd be no real risk to the GF at all. How's that for no risk/high reward?
Move a little? If I have to go from one end of a map to another to do something about the KV that's helping the person I'm fighting where I currently am while I'm playing a melee toon, that's not moving a little. That's crossing the whole **** map. That's what I've wanted adjusted. If a DC could sit at the campfire and spam heals to the entire rest of their team regardless of where on the map they are, people would be saying that needs to be nerfed. That's basically what's currently going on with GFs which is why people have been asking for KV to be adjusted and, there's no need to say, 'Well it's getting changed so why are you QQing?' because I'm not QQing. I'm explaining something to someone that seems to have some serious comprehension issues. I also never said anything about a ranged DPS not being able to reach a GF. I said that if a GF is on a node and being attacked by range that they shouldn't have to worry about running after the ranged attacker because the ranged attackers on the GF's team should be going after them while being protected by KV. You know... using that team play that you've been highlighting as validation of KV?
You must become forgetful when you get in a heated argument. Go look at page 5. That's your first comment in this thread. In that post you are defending KV as it currently is in game. As soon as someone disagreed with you about that and said that KV as it currently is in game is OP, you went off. That's when you said ITC needs to be removed completely if KV is touched by the devs.
You didn't change your stance on KV until after it had been made known that it's already been changed on the preview server at which point you started trolling someone over comments they made before that change was known.
Now, in my very first post, I only said two things that you could have considered insulting. I said that you were trolling, which I'm not going to explain again how you were trolling. I already wrote a whole paragraph explaining it that you've already quoted.
I also said that if you're having trouble with TRs on a GF that you're either a bad PvPer or have not PvPed on a GF since M4. Now, if you want to take that as an insult, that's your right. That does not change the fact that no GF has any business complaining about a TR that's equally geared in M4. A GF that lands their prone can kill a TR in one rotation right now. There's a guy in another thread saying he's killed toons with more HP than a TR in one rotation on a 14k GF. If a GF in M4 is a free kill for an equally geared TR, they either need to learn how to play their class or pick a new one. Being angry about that doesn't change it.
If you don't want people calling you on your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, don't sling any. Aside from calling you on trolling someone else and saying you need to step up your game on a GF, I think I remained somewhat polite to you until I got sick of your comments so, yeah. I insulted you. You earned it. I'm not asking for an apology and, I don't want one but, at least own up to your behavior. From the moment someone disagreed with you, you have done nothing but insult people so, you don't get to point fingers and say someone else started it.
Seriously. Go back and reread all of the comments you've made in this thread in an objective manner. I think it'll be pretty eye opening for you.
And this is what I mean. You are literally arguing for the sake of arguing.
Let's run down your line of bs again(for the what seems like millionth time :rolleyes:), shall we? Btw, before we begin, I'm not on my comp anymore, but my phone, so instead of addressing every piece of your bs individually, I decided to write 1 general response. Sorry, just shut down your attempted troll right there.
1)no GFs are saying it's currently working as intended. Any arguing about it not WAI is a moot point, as everything(LoS, range, proccing dragon glyphs) has been introduced. You're just arguing to argue when EVERYONE agrees that those points are broken, so QQing about "all a GF has to do is sit at dungeon entrance, and hold block" is not only pointless, but continuously proving you're the troll here.
2)addressing that for all your(yes, lumping you in with the QQers you're defending) complaints about how the GF can mitigate 80% of their damage, while being bias in the fact that with the new block, THEYRE ALWAYS TAKING DAMAGE. If in nerd raging about your bias, so be it. I'll take that hit with honors.
3)once again, you're statement of "if I have to go from one end of a map to another to do something about KV" is, once again, you're arguing just to argue. As 150' is NOT that far(roughly 6 TR dashes, I've tried it
4)I'm not even going to repost what you said about ranged dps not reaching GF now. You can't read YOUR OWN WORDS, let alone what someone else is trying to tell you.
5)so, now I've got to explain what a TR does now too? For people who supposedly play the game, I have to become the official neverwinter wiki for you?! Sigh... Here goes:
The TR is a short burst dps class with weak armor. Their stealth is their defense, allowing them to strike from the shadows, killing their enemies while trying not to become vulnerable themselves. Stealth(their class mechanic) plays a big role in their builds, and enemies caught unawares are either hard pressed to find them, or escape before death. They have daze powers, high crit, pretty high deflect(if geared/built that way), and can prolong their stealth through gear/feats/powers.
6)by the way, nice try on your ranger quip. Pvp offers too high tankiness, and they ALREADY had high dps. Plus, piercing blade is currently OP. Nice try on that piece of bs
7)already explained why a TR was picked more in the past. Technically, as needs to be explained to you, CWs are the most picked class for a reason. Superior dps and cc than EVERYONE else. If you've played, you should know this. Moving on...
8)what you're not comprehending(and myself and others are already stating) is that in a team based game, you can't tell me that your team WONT coordinate? I'm sorry, but anyone should know how to prioritize targets. Is it really so hard, say if you see your enemy has KV activated somewhere(once again, with proper LoS and range fix) to hunt down that GF and take him down? He's already taking damage for his teammates, so he has to switch off to confront you, or take at least 2 sources of damage now.
9)do you know WHY a melee class has prones? This is where I get that you don't play that often(if at all): generally, the ranged classes have better mobility(not to mention start the fight BEFORE you reach them). A melee needs ways to stop them, do they not? In fairness, ranged classes need equal ways to stall melees too right?(although GWFs had too many. That's why prones like FLS got changed to stuns)
10)I've had to go in depth, as you trolls seriously think all either class has is one encounter, so I bring up their powers in total, because someone obviously needs to be fair by comparing EVERYTHING, not 1 thing on a class(GF here) that TRs that don't play at all are QQing about. I haven't been "all over the place" I've just had to explain the totality of their class to someone who's cherry picking 1 OP thing they do(that's, once again, getting fixed :rolleyes: ).
11)if you're not QQing, you're defending the QQer. Once again, you can say "I'm not the one QQing all you want". If you fanatically defending the actual ones QQing, that puts you in the same boat. Not to mention YOUR nerd raging is just YOUR troll attempt, as you're clearly a)arguing just to hear yourself argue, b)arguing AGAINST people who agree with you(see point A).
Nice try on the cherry picking, but if you go back to page 5, and READ the last lines of my post, I said "ask for balance, don't QQ for nerf". If you're going to cherry pick, at least cherry pick where I can't undo your obvious troll by pointing out what I said.
"Asking for balance" was me addressing that I know it isn't WAI. Asking "don't QQ nerf" was me asking(albeit sarcastically) to address complaints about the power, not what's making it broken.
Now, why don't YOU read YOUR posts, and shadowbunslice's. You'll see tons of insults, raging, and clear bias AGAINST GFs. While I returned in kind, it was in response to YOUR raging. Read how YOU posted, read how he posted, then tell me that you're NOT tha kid who starts fights, then QQ'es about being insulted?
If you want to rage cuz I called YOU on YOUR <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, don't post <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. You need to take your own advice. When I was done with that guys' trolling, and wanted to stop, YOU chimed in with YOUR insults. You didn't come in here to save the day. You came in on the troll bandwagon, and now YOURE all butthurt cuz I responded to you like I responded to the original troll.
EDIT: P.S. You say you've seen TRs in thread say GFs are hard. I've ALSO been in threads with TRs who admit that GFs are easy targets. The difference being that I'll at least believe both posters. That's their opinion, and who knows? Maybe one's doing something the other isn't. But at least I'm willing to believe either. You don't agree with opinions that oppose yours. THATS bias.
P.P.S. Also looked on youtube for "GF solos epic dungeons". Haven't found any...
+1 to this. The glyphs are seriously bad right now. Things that proc too often seem to be the biggest complaint(at least amongst the smart ones
Actually, here's a list of people that were defending KV in this thread.
crixus8000, daggon87, rabbinicus, izidius, almondum, rheepark, thestaggy, and you.
That's just in the first couple pages. I stopped bothering to look further once I got to your post. So, what was that about no GFs defending the way KV currently works in game? Now, I'll grant that some GFs did change their stance once they realized that KV still reduces the damage of their teammates even beyond the range that the GF takes damage from but, even after you became aware of that, you still kept at it with other people, even though those people were saying essentially the same thing you're saying now and it's apparently because they don't play a GF.
Oh, I read that and understood it as well. I had no issue with that. My complaint about KV has basically been the same thing that you changed your stance to once you found out that the devs are fixing KV. It's just that I don't play a GF and you're extremely class biased. The only reason we're still arguing is because you are extremely lacking in comprehension and critical thinking skills and I have a compulsion to try to fix stupid.
The people that have been complaining about KV, or QQing as you like to call it when it's anyone other than a GF weighing in, have been complaining because it has infinite range, ignores LoS and, once the teammate is out of the range that KV is supposed to have, the GF stops taking damage even though the teammate keeps getting the benefit of KV. Even you seem to agree that KV should not work as it currently does in game but, due to your extreme class bias, you fight tooth and nail against anything said by anyone that doesn't play a GF. If the information being given is accurate, what class the person giving that information plays is irrelevant. If you found and reported a bug involving a class that you don't play and reported it, I wouldn't tell you that your opinion on the matter carries no weight. If it turned out that your information was accurate, I would agree with you. You're just not capable of doing that because you're hellbent on "defending the GFs against the QQers".
Actually, as I pointed out earlier in this post, some GFs that were commenting in this thread were not okay with the idea of KV being adjusted. They wanted it kept as is. One person said they may as well delete the class if they're going to adjust KV. You said that they need to get rid of ITC if they're going to adjust KV and don't even try to say that you weren't trying to troll when you said that. It's so clear that you were. Also. Pot. Kettle. Black.
You really should go back and reread your posts. If you can't handle the thought that you're bad at PvPing on a GF because you can't beat a TR, that's your problem. Like I said, step up your game. Unless there's a large GS imbalance, I would put my money on a GF every time when matched up against a TR in mod 4. You were also clearly trolling other people simply because they don't play GFs. Even you said that you shouldn't have made comments that you made earlier in this thread. Calling you out on that isn't insulting you. You on the other hand, can not make a single post where you're disagreeing with someone without insulting their intelligence so... You can take those fingers you're so eager to point and cram them.
Comparing ITC to block makes about as much sense as comparing ITC to KV or comparing ITC to something like Ray of Frost. If you really wanted to do a critical analysis of ITC, you should have been comparing it to something like Unstoppable which is much closer in form and function but, we both know that what was really going on was that you were desperate to derail to get attention off of KV and a comparison of ITC vs Unstoppable would have had no pertinence in this thread. There's also the fact that the person you were saying it to mains on a TR and you were going for emotional investment in the hopes of getting them to quit talking about KV.
See my above comment for a reply.
Some have admitted that it's not WAI and, I haven't argued with them at all. You, however, were initially defending KV as it currently is in game and, once you found out that it's somewhat broken, decided to troll people that don't play GFs for having an opinion on the matter.
Actually, no. I was contesting your assertion that ITC needs to be removed from the game and was calling you out on trolling. I'm largely content with the intended changes being made to KV. I've actually said multiple times now in big bold letters, specifically to you, that I never wanted KV removed from the game or nerfed to the point of uselessness. I only thought that it needed the range reduced from infinite and that it needed to require LoS. You just don't seem to be willing to acknowledge that because I don't play a GF. Hence, you have an extreme class bias.
See above comments for my reply.
I'm fully aware of what you said. You also said this.
That's from the exact same post. Are you honestly going to attempt to say that you were not defending KV as it currently is in game when you said that? If so, I'm going to have to call you a liar, and a bad one at that.
What's broken about KV is that it has infinite range, doesn't require LoS, and that the GF takes no damage from it once the teammate is beyond a certain range even though that teammate still gets the reduction in damage so, at this point in time, asking for balance or a 'QQ nerf' are one and the same. How do you not understand this? If you're referring to the dragon glyphs, those needed tuning too but, that doesn't mean that how KV currently is in game is fine. It just means that using dragon glyphs makes the current problems with KV much more noticeable.
I have read them. Multiple times. They were accusing you of defending a broken power as well as being biased against anyone that doesn't play a GF and, you know what? You were. As far as me insulting you goes, you were clearly trolling. We both know this. If you think that GFs as a class are easy kills for TRs as a class in mod 4, you're bad at PvPing on a GF. That's just all there is too it. You might as well try to say that GFs as a class are easy kills for all other classes. Saying that I have a bias against GFs is laughable. My only point of contention has been the way KV currently works in game and refuting your bull <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> claims and, they are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Everyone that comments on these forums knows that TRs have been nerfed to hell and back. Even the devs have acknowledged that they swung the nerf bat too hard at TRs yet, here you were in this thread, screaming your head off about how OP a TR's abilities are and how that class needs to be nerfed even more because you were desperate to defend how KV currently is in game and that's the class the person you were yelling at plays.
Nope. Not raging. I'm sure you're heartbroken. Once again, I'm calling you on your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and the only reason we're still arguing is because you have some pretty strong dissonance going on and I have a compulsion to fix stupid. You can go ahead and call me a troll all you want. As I said before, that word seems to mean anyone that disagrees, to you so, I'll wear that label since I disagree with a lot of what you've said in this thread.
I'm inclined to think you're a liar if you're talking about TRs talking about post mod 4. I don't always comment but, I look over these forums a lot and, have yet to come across any TR saying that GFs are easy kills since mod 4 came out. I'm also always open to the possibility that I'm wrong. I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm infallible. I also have no bias regarding the source of a given piece of information. My only concern is how factual it is.
Your problem, not mine.
I am not one of those people. I have made my view on the matter very clear so many times now that I refuse to repeat it anymore. Any further attempts by you to imply otherwise only highlight that you do not even understand what's being said to you. Out of all the people that have posted in this thread, only one person has said KV shouldn't work in PvP and, if they were still commenting, I'd be arguing with them too. Do you get it yet?
Guardian Fighter: Knight's Valor: While this power is toggled on and the Guardian Fighter loses targeting of all allies, the visual effect now pulses to warn the player that no allies are affected.
Here we go
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
This has been known since the 29th as shown here. So, I'm not entirely sure why this thread has been open for as long as it has been
don't understand why you continue to riddle this thread with hidden hate towards GFs. But hey, im not here to win any awards for fighting 2 trolls simultaneously.
Out of all the posters in this thread, only 2 seemed toxic to the very essence of KV, whether AFTER its fixed or not.
Ill give you a clue, theyre not the ones you mentioned earlier. Theyre shadowbunslice and YOU.
Do YOU get it?
Once again, as your reading comprehension seems limited, no one, NO ONE is in disagreement at this point that KV WAS WAI(getting fixed today. and im sure youre STILL going to come on here and QQ obviously).
The other posters posted things like its LoS, range, and other powers working with it NOT WAI. Those posters, such as crixus8000, daggon87, rabbinicus, izidius, almondum, rheepark, thestaggy, aren't defending KV. Were defending the power once as it functions CORRECTLY. NOT ONCE did any of the above posters(myself included) say that "a GF standing in spawn taking no damage, causing his team to take half damage" is WAI. Not once did we say that "a GF sitting behind a wall should protect his teammates".
Do YOU get it? Ill use the obviously bias phrase you seem to keep bringing up, as it constantly denotes your own bias in the matter:
Now, as far as comparing ITC to unstoppable or block, further(once again, :rolleyes: ) denotes your idiocy in the statement. A class mechanic can NOT be compared to a single power, as powers a)have cooldowns, b)have some feats dedicated to them, but not gear/tactics centered around a single power. 1 power DOES NOT make the class. But class mechanics make the class, don't they?
As far as your pathetic, cognitively impaired troll on "not declaring KV OP", ill say this again. Very slowly for you, seeing as reading beyond your own words escapes you, as do others words spelled out for you. YOU...DEFENDED...A...TROLL...WHO...DID...WANT...KV...GONE...NOT...TO...MENTION...TRY...TO...CONTINUOUSLY...TROLL...SOMEONE...WHO...DEBUNKED...HIS...STATEMENT. Do YOU get it?
Once again, I know not every GF is happy to see it changed like this. But look at your statements. If im seriously at fault for not jumping on every QQ'er in this thread QQing about KV, are YOU AT FAULT FOR DEFENDING THE QQ'ERS THAT ARE QQING FOR KV TO BE NERFED, NOT BALANCED? Youre jumping on me for not doing what im supposedly doing "showing extreme class bias" as im supporting members in this thread that ARENT as ridiculous as you 2! Look at the posts: 1 was a little sarcastic, but once again, only 2 posters have seemed pretty toxic to GFs in general(guess who
Im beginning to think youre a liar when you've talked about this game. Mod4 is just recently out, and this is the first time anyone really needs a GF for anything other than kiting. "Tanking" has been an unused playstyle from beta to mod3. Dps(you know, that thing TRs have been at least WAY better than GFs at, up until around mod3(a rough estimate. I don't try to bs like you)) however, has been a necessary requirement for any class to do dungeons. That, and control. Now I have to explain to you this simple thing that most new players know by now? Really?!
I see youre trying to cherry pick again, and it will fail AGAIN :rolleyes:
"+1 to this . I can't believe that people are literally QQing about a class doing what it's supposed to do. What next? QQing about a DC healing? Oh wait..."
Let me call you on your bs AGAIN. I was referring to the tactic of "GF defense mechanics" being complained about. Once again, with your selective reading, I didn't think id have to say clearly what I was defending. But then again, from a bias poster like yourself, i might have to be a little clearer to someone clearly just cherry picking arguments to try to puff up how much of a troll he really is. So ill state this again for the cognitive impaired, but in a manner a 4th grader can understand. Maybe youll get it this time.
"+1 to this. I cant believe that people are literally QQing about a class using defensive powers if theyre WAI(ive stated the "if theyre WAI" part several times, but i didn't think id have to insert it into a statement, after everyone but you( :rolleyes: ) knew what i meant...
In summary, youre STILL just arguing to hear yourself argue. Out of all the people ive talked to in this thread, only 2 seem fit to CONTINUOUSLY THROW A FIT ABOUT A POWER THAT NOT ONLY NEARLY EVERYONE AGREES ISNT WAI, BUT HAVE EVEN BEEN SHOWN HOW ITS GOING TO BE FIXED, BY FELLOW GFS
Im done stating what should've been a single reasonable post. You didn't need to be butthurt about my opinion, you didn't need to obviously try to troll me by blaming ME for YOUR misreading, and YOU didn't need to defend the only person i had a problem with(until you obviously jumped on the troll bandwagon, making you the 2nd person in this WHOLE thread ive had a problem with).
Do YOU get it? Youre not only trolling here, youre trying to sound like youre the awesome debater, when nobody is against what youre so vehement about being "your only complaint". Once again, as youre reading skills are lacking, "Why QQ about a debate when EVERYONE is in agreement with you".
I was ONLY addressing the QQ'ers that are so offended by the power in the first place. Read the forums title: GF's Knights Valor is Destroying PvP". That, my cognitively impaired friend, is an obvious QQ nerf thread title. The title is not "GF's Knights Valor is not WAI in PvP, suggestions to fix?(or please fix?. or look at it please?)".
And that's why i bring up other powers. In the hope that a simple comparison would reach your limited capacity. Like Roar. How many QQ threads were started AFTER devs said itd be fixed? The wait for a power to be fixed might've been long, but is over QQing about it really helping? Or, as in the case of KV here, is QQing about something when EVERYONE(excuse me, the single guy you say i should jump, and leave your troll buddy alone about) agrees isn't WAI, just hiding something more. When youre STILL arguing, with no one arguing against you, what else can you be doing but arguing just to argue?
If you simply stated "hey youre being offensive to TRs" i could've simply said something like "oh, my bad. wasn't trying to be, but i was only comparing their differences, and what makes them OP in other people's eyes". No, you went on a long rant trying to troll me with statements like "any other view and youre clearly trolling"(which, by the way, is clearly a trolling statement itself), and continuously posting the same "KV is not WAI" despite others not only saying those words(myself included) in total agreement, but also BEFORE YOU EVEN ENTERED THE THREAD!
Youre right, and i apologize to you guys. I clearly let these 2 trolls get to me...
Its been posted, several times, by myself and others. Its not going to stop the QQing. it didn't stop them before...
LOL Yeah. I get it. I'm not gonna repeat myself again since I've said it so many times that you should have figured it out by now but, I'm not surprised at this point considering that you aren't even capable of understanding anything that's said to you and just keep trying to throw back everything that's said at you. It's actually amusing the way you seem to be kind of a parrot. I mean, when you first joined this thread, all you really seemed capable of doing is saying that people were QQing and then screaming for TRs to be nerfed. Now you're using multisyllabic nomenclature. Maybe some day you'll even understand what that means which, I do hope because, as I've said, I have a compulsion to fix stupid and you are a huge project. It is genuinely amusing to watch you try to insult me with words that I'm not even sure you understand, given that you didn't use anything along the lines of them until they were posted by me and, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. My advice is that, in the future, you try to actually understand what's being said to you instead of simply raging at the fact that there's words on your screen. It's a computer. You're going to come across that a lot. Good luck with PvPing as well. Based on what you've said in here, I can't help thinking you'll need it.
Yea, I get it. I'm done repeating myself, as simple monosyllabic statements escape you, the gravity of your own words escape you, and even discussions on your side escape you. I have a weakness for arguing against stupid, and sir, you take the cake.
For the final time, I'll lay all your stupidity out for you:
STILL arguing just to hear yourself argue? Check.
Throwing insults, while QQing about being insulted DESPITE the fact you started the insults? Check.
Trying to pretend youre smart, by being dumb as heck? Check.
Fanatically defending your fellow troll, then saying anyone who disagrees with his/your statements are trolls? Check.
CONTINUOUSLY proving my point about your never ending stupidity? Check.
Cherry picking my statements, just because you're the 1 guy in here who doesn't seem to understand them? Check.
STILL QQing about KV in a thread AFTER the power in question is fixed(as I predicted, might I add)? Check.
Failing to understand the stupidity involved when you're QQing about something no one's in disagreement about? Check.
Throwing nerd rage to hide your TR fanaticism, and hidden GF bashing? Check.
Do you get it yet?
I guess I'm at fault for trying to be patient. I try to understand someone's stupidity, or the fallacy in an argument. But you cant, no you WONT listen to anything you or anyone else is saying. At first your insults looked like you were nothing more than a troll, until it was too late to realize, that you're so stupid you're trolling yourself.
Even George Bush Jr, America's dumbest president, would've realized "Oh! They're agreeing with me!" That's how stupid you are: you make HIM look smart. Even the GOP/Tea Party/Fox News would've stopped by now if I used phrases like "it's Obama's fault" by now. But you're past that. If stupidity can't be fixed, then you're hopeless.
P.S. It's also clearly hilarious how you're trying to pretend youre intelligent, when you've misunderstood the simplest sentences thrown at you. I thought it was an oversight in your troll logic, and called you on your bs. But too late i realized that you can't even understand your own words, let alone anyone else's. You're literally trolling yourself in your own stupidity.
Anyway, I'm done. Unlike you, I will not be stupid enough to nerd rage in a thread that's clearly irrelevant now, let alone argue with someone who clearly can't understand himself, let alone others.
My concerns had more to do with its PVE utility, as PVP-centered nerfs are known to completely ruin PVE viability. Just go ask a TR for confirmation.
And aside from that, the GF sacrifices his own defences when protecting his party. I fought a few GFs in PVP that were running the Iron Warrior + KV protection build and I thrashed them because they could not fight back. The KV GF in PVP was no different to a DC; an irritation when with 1 or more teammates but get it by itself and it dies fast.
Is it planned change of this power, or just another bug. Any info?
.Suicide Squad.
I think it works the same way as most DC powers now such as hollowed ground, divine armor, astral shield etc., they affect every nearby ally even if they are not in your party.
I think it was the only way to decrease it's range without much coding. I'm not sure if it's good, in GG you can cover huge area and protect many players at once, but you probably won't want to shield all players at large HEs such as Beholder.
LOL i used it on HE and i die instant from the blocked dmg i dont recomend to use it near powerfull bosses like Beholder.
AND GGpvp.
I see you haven't figured it out. Run along. I'm done wasting my time with you.
That's definitely a legit concern that I can sympathize with but, I think the changes being made are more than fair. Assuming the range they've listed is radius, that's an area large enough for two ranged people to attack the same thing from their maximum range while standing on opposite sides of the target they're attacking while still both being protected by KV and they'd both still be able to go out another 60' before having to worry about losing protection from KV. That gives them plenty of play room for things like dodging if they have to and it means that they're not going to end up out of the GF's range if that person needs to do some maneuvering.
I have never managed to catch a KV GF by themselves. I do a lot of back capping so, I usually find out that the other team has a GF running KV when someone comes to stop me from taking their node and I only do half damage to them.
I'll readily admit that GFs needed a buff since it seemed like all that a lot of them could do in M3 was stand on a node to contest it and get beat on in the hopes that other members of their team showed up before they were killed and, they still might not be too much trouble for ranged classes but, if you're melee, they are nothing to sneeze at anymore. I prefer to PvP on a TR and GFs are more difficult to face 1 on 1 now and, I'm okay with that. Like I said earlier, they're the rock to the TR's scissors. It shouldn't be a forgone conclusion that the GF will win but, they should be hard for TRs to beat, just like some other classes should be hard for GFs. I think a large part of the problem with balancing the classes on this game is that a lot of people want the classes to be balanced so that, assuming gear is equal, everyone has an equal chance of beating anyone else regardless of the classes being used and, this game isn't meant for 1 on 1 PvP If it was, we'd have a duel function.
You're probably right. Most of the people that originally worked for Cryptic were fans of the Champions PnP. All the signature characters in City of Heroes were the PnP characters of the devs that made it.
Lets see other mmos.
They have the so called tank hou can deal high single target dmg and do some reflect dmg and he have the so called ability UD= Ultimate Defense . In UD he is absolutly immune to any dmg .
Also he have instant taunt agro the boss only focus or add fest on him. Also he have the biggest HP pool.
Also in other mmos the tank is the hardest to kill class.
In nw we dont have any of this .
Hardest to kill class HR.
Taunt have no class in NW.
UD have TR .
Best sinle target CW.
The only 1 left the biggest HP pool yes GF have this .
Now why he need KV to be usefull .
Simple solution is to ask this to prevent future PVE nerfs:
Remove KV from pvp& keep it for pve.
Not even one good pvp GF will miss it belive me , but pve GFs will miss it .
Briar deal 20-120 dmg i had perfect sold it for 2 p.bark.
Blue dragon is easy to counter use green have more hp then the other GF and use SS the he will be dead in 2 sec and he will never use this cheat enchant agan after you killed it 9 times in row.
Run along troll, I don't have time to explain the entire game to you AGAIN(google mustve been really hard for you to use, I take it?).
Now, onto the actual, experienced players in here...
Knights Valor was always a risky move for your teammates. Pre-mod4, GFs learned to never use it in pvp, as the burst damage caused them to die. They rarely used it in pve as well, but with a smart and decent team(the ones not dumb enough to stand in aoes all the time) this was both a saving grace for your teammates, and an all around savior in dungeons where the squishy classes just could not stop taking damage. BUT their guard was also broken too easily. Now, they still take damage, but between it being mitigated and block being a timed thing more than a broken in seconds by dps thing, more GFs are actually happy to use it.
Ill tell you this: most GFs like the change to block, and most of the GFs that are complaining about it now are the ones who never understood its past unviability. In both PVE and PVP, it never really lasted long, not to mention you moved so slowly just to get where youre going. Now, you don't zoom, but at least move near normal speed. When the current dungeon meta involves zerging from fight to fight, the slow moving tank that couldn't hit for hard damage lost its utility. Now, theyre not as slow, can take more punishment(block and hp), and could afford to take more punishment because of it.
Now, I know its still not fixed to work right, but the devs WILL get it right. They were looking at other powers from the moment people started complaining about them.
And, unlike what a certain hidden agenda QQer is trying to hide(
As for how it stands now, this is what happens when PvP affects PvE, and vice versa. Something tries to get buffed/nerfed for one, it breaks it on the other. I guess not many realize that there always will be a difference between the 2. Tbh, I ALWAYS thought that they should've reacted differently depending on what style you were playing.
Tenacity, for example, was an example of the devs trying to differentiate, as it only affected pvp, right?
But even then, that couldn't be a productive answer, could it? All of a sudden, complaints came in of burst classes like the CW not being able to kill within 1 rotation as much( TRs already hit hard before that), and at around the same time, a dps burst ranger class came into being. Guess who QQ'ed about HRs the most? Everyone enjoyed longevity but the CW apparently, so I see that part in the complaint.
Many people in this game learned the hard way that too much QQ broke the game even further, and paved the way for devs to fix the problem by "buffing" the QQ'ers. Now, we have a bunch of CWs killing by their procs more than their damage, and all but the smart ones don't know why.
Now, back on the GF. Knights Valor as it stands now, is still not WAI. I tested the range/LoS when they fixed it. Theyre fine for PvE. Dungeon boss rooms are pretty big, and whether kiting or just trying to give players some breathing room, there WILL be quite the area of space to deal with.
Unlike what that QQ baby is insinuating(he probably cant even understand this word anyway), I believe the best change is to shorten it to 80' in pvp only.
As I said before, before certain QQ babies got involved(shadowbunslice and arimakami), lets look for balance instead of nerf QQing. The OPer and these QQ babies are trying to derail the true reason the power's broken by trying to troll me with their stupidity. I only returned them in kind, bringing up their classes(and getting class fanatic QQing from them, might I add) when I bring up how balanced the TR used to be/kind of still is.
Speaking of the TR, they did not really need hurt that much, did they? I know the 1 shot age of them wasn't WAI, but at least bring back their burst damage somewhat? Me and other TRs are tired of permastealth, and WK would honestly see more viability if this was possible.
Lets get it all out: KV isn't WAI right now, but a LOT of the reason it still is, is because of the range(in pvp) and things like glyph proccing off them. I don't bring up the SS combo because a)having a little combo like that should be viable(right, TRs/HRs with fey thistle boon?) b)not nearly as devastating as the glyphs.
I implore the reasonable men/women of this thread to continue being constructive in here. Lets not break down into trolling others, cuz you don't personally like a playstyle/hate certain classes (
In GG I was giving Knight's Valor to the whole raid. -.-